Myra Bronstein
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Posts posted by Myra Bronstein
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This is an educational forum that is read by young people. Therefore, we do not expect people to use swear words in their postings. In European culture, swearing is an act of aggression and is not something we encourage in educational settings.
It has been brought to my attention that one member, Myra Bronstein, has reacted very aggressively when being warned by moderators about their language. I can assure her and other like-minded members, that swearing is not acceptable and that moderators have my permission to remove such language when it appears in postings.
Well aint this a cold slap in the groin.
Say there... is "groin" a swear word?
I don't want to screw up and have Antti get his knickers all in a twist again.
...
Oops! Is "screw up" a swear?
Gosh, it's such a verbal mine field when moderators decide to police language.
And I do so want to avoid having my gosh darn diddley doodley posts censored.
(Is "gosh darn" a swear?)
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To my thinking, there can never be true "closure"
to the horror of the event. I would be satisfied however when History Books record that JFK was killed on 11/22/63, the result of a Coup d' Etat which was engineered by the principals at both the highest levels of of the U.S. government and its agencies. This coup was not only strongly encouraged, but truly demanded by those whose financial monopoly held the "true power" behind the transparently "token government". The power which drove this coup is now realized to forever have changed the path taken by the U.S. in both domestic and international matters. The United States now attempts to RE-EARN the respect it once held in a government of the PEOPLE, which had once taken those first steps to rationally bring accord to problems which arise between nations in an ever shrinking world.
To me "The Admission of Conspiracy" will come closest to historical closure for me.
AS far as "who dunnit" and "how done"....we actually have known for some time. For those of you who are not satisfied until you learn who paid what people to hide, in which places, and to fire an exact number of shots......I am convinced that you will forever be cursed with looking at faded pictures and trying to convince others that "shrubs" are "shooters" and where others were positioned.
I frankly don't give a damn about people who are dead or octogenarians being brought "to justice".
To my thinking, JUSTICE is the admission of what occurred, and that PREVENTATIVE STEPS have been taken to insure that this can never happen again !
I don't know the exact mechanics of the plot, but I surely for years have known "Who Did It and Why".
This is why I have no cause for further actual research. The ONE FACTOR which should be blatantly obvious to anyone studying this case for even a brief time, is the self destruction of researchers by their individual feelings of independence, and their failure to concede minor points in their "Pet Theories", so that a united force can move forward
with the agreement, that their purpose is only the ADMISSION that a Coup occured on 11/22/63 and that it is realized and that steps have been "entrenched", that will not allow it to happen again.
IMHO, the very obvious lack of a "united front" is what has kept this case alive. That is why the Warren Report Buffoons laughingly point to us as "buffs" and "theorists", and continue to point to the fact that we are all so "loony" that we cannot agree with each other.
Regarding this "they ain't wrong"....and without some sort of unification, I would wager if I had a chance of then being alive, that 43 years from now
someone will again be asking..."If the Z film were altered, why did they show JFK's head apparently react to a frontal shot?"
Our sights must be raised for any type of closure.
Raised to demanding proof that IT WAS DONE.....not by who or why. We need to graduate to a higher level. I personally don't need to know the names of those who actually stabbed Julius Caesar, any more than I need the names of the soldiers who nailed Jesus Christ to the cross! We don't need the names because we truly know the "WHY".
I think the time for research has passed and it is now time for "True Analysis" and ORGANIZATION !
Charlie Black
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Now, this is the Charles Black I had come to admire back in November - December, before those damned "Marilyn" threads. This is where you shine, Charlie. This is where you should be directing your time and energy. Because, this is the podium from which I first witnessed what I believed was your dogged determination in pointing your finger in the direction of the real perps. You and Myra, seemed to be the new blood so necessary in raising the conciousness, as well as the evolutionary process, in order to drag this investigation out of the mire in which it's been languishing.
And, I sincerely mean that, Charles. Please don't mistake this as some kind of an attack, because that is definitely not my intention, here.
Wow, thank you Terry.
In fact I'm going to pounce on this to flog a project I've been wanting to work on, and it's finally to the point where I'm soliciting input:
Everyone please keep in mind that this is a super early version. I'm just now getting the format nailed down. It will take months to really put some flesh on the bones. And a big part of the reason I'm going quasi-public with it now is because input from other researchers/historians is essential given the scope of the effort.
My objective is to give context to President Kennedy's murder and thereby explain what's going on today because it's all so closely related. I'm also doing this because the murder is a huge puzzle, so I'm assembling it like a huge puzzle. Ultimately the perps & victims will be very obvious from my presentation. The format will allow for a lot of information at a glance, while incorporating drill-down capability. If someone wants to know more about a topic I'll link to my own summaries. Then if they want to know still more I'll provide links to (what I consider) the best JFK resources.
Again, input info and ideas would be greatly appreciated.
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Silly me. Didn't realize 'til just today that Walker was part of the plot:
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKhuntHL.htm
"Hunt also funded two right-wing radio shows, Facts Forum and Life Line. He used these radio stations to support the anti-communist campaign of Joseph McCarthy. He also helped to finance the political career of Lyndon B. Johnson. A member of the John Birch Society, Hunt was a close friend of Edwin Walker."
I sure wonder whose car was in his driveway (that had the license plate hidden by a hole in the photo). Anyone have any theories? Maybe one associated with HL Hunt? (Just a SWAG.)
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The other assassination in 1963 had as its victim, Medgar Evers, the field secretary of the NAACP in Mississippi.
This video examines Evers' drive to get blacks to vote, the hardships they encountered at the registration office, his murder in his driveway, how the police tried to provoke violence at his funeral, and how all-white juries twice refused to convict his killer in the 1960's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medgar_Evers
"On June 12, 1963, Evers pulled into his driveway after returning from an integration meeting where he had conferred with NAACP lawyers. Emerging from his car and carrying NAACP T-shirts that stated, "Jim Crow Must Go", Evers was struck in the back with a bullet that ricocheted into his home. He staggered 30 feet before collapsing, dying at the local hospital 50 minutes later. Evers was murdered just hours after President John F. Kennedy's speech on national television in support of civil rights[birnbaum, p. 490].
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On June 23, Byron De La Beckwith, a fertilizer salesman and member of the White Citizens' Council and Ku Klux Klan, wasarrested for Evers' murder. During the course of his first 1964 trial, De La Beckwith was visited by former Mississippi governor Ross Barnett and one time Army Major General Edwin A. Walker."
http://www.theconspiracy.us/9408/0029.html
"...When Byron de La Beckwith was seeking to avoid indictment for the assassination of Medgar Evers, much of his political support came from former Major General Edwin Walker. Edwin Walker had been a divisional commander in Germany and was
replaced by John Kennedy because Edwin Walker was violating Army regulations by obliging his troops to study the "Blue Book" of the John Birch Society. It is a violation of U.S. military regulations to force your troops to study political doctrine. Edwin Walker was fired by John Kennedy. He then came to the Dallas-Ft. Worth area where he became a protege of H.L. Hunt and in the fifth volume of the 26 volumes of Warren Commission testimony and exhibits, it is revealed, or it is documented that, Edwin Walker's John Birch Society cell was used as a vehicle for bringing military intelligence agents over from Munich, Germany to operate at the
field level in the assassination of John Kennedy.
It is also worth noting, too, that one of the things cited by the Warren Commission to prove that Lee Harvey Oswald was not a
politically-motivated assassin, (he wasn't an assassin at all, he was a patsy) but the Warren Commission stated that Lee Harvey
Oswald had previously tried to assassinate Major General Edwin Walker, who was an ultra-right winger. Therefore, since he tried
to shoot a right-winger and he wound up shooting a liberal, he was not politically motivated.
This information first surfaced, according to the Warren Commission investigation or cover-up, on December 3rd 1963, when Marina Oswald revealed this to the FBI during an interrogation. The FBI then notified the Warren Commission. However, this does not explain why on November 29, 1963, a Nazi newspaper in Munich, Germany, named the Deutsch----unclear-----, published by a guy named Gerhard Frey (sp), still active on the German Nazi scene, and having a number of highly-ranked SS officers and former officials from Goebbels propaganda ministry on its editorial staff, that newspaper revealed the information that Oswald had shot at Walker on November 29, 1963, based on an interview with Edwin Walker, that Edwin Walker gave by telephone to Gerhard Frey on November 23, 1963 which was a full eleven days before Marina Oswald supposedly revealed that to the world.
Now, you do not have to be Columbo or Sherlock Holmes to figure out that that throws serious doubt on the validity of the Warren
Commission's investigation, but that is just one of many evidenciary tributaries leading between our various assassinations
and attempted assassinations. That does not mean that, yes, Major General Edwin Walker and the Hunt organization were connected to Byron de La Beckwith and the assassination of Medgar Evers, yet at the same time when we see so many of the same elements and the same names cropping up in connection with our political assassinations, supposedly unconnected, and supposedly not having any serious political ramifications, I think we are in a position to stand back and take a look at these killings and to view them in much the same light as the assassination program conducted in Germany in the 1920s, long before the world became familiar with the name of Adolph Hitler, long before National Socialism took over in Germany and helped plunge the world into war, that there were a series, as I said, of assassinations conducted in Germany which paved the way for the rise of fascism in that country. But in addition to the leaders of the German revolution, such as Karl Liebnick (sp) and Rosa Luxembourg (sp), doctrinaire communists themselves, democratic leaders ranging from Kurt Eisner (sp), Karl Guirise (sp), Gustav Landauer (sp), Walter von Rattenau (sp), these are names that history has not remembered and they should have. As we look at our assassinations and our attempted assassinations, I think it is important that we clear away the obfuscation, that we learn to see
the forest despite the trees that have been placed in our way, because in my opinion, and I think the evidence argues very
strongly in that regard, we here in the United States went through a similar historical event to the assassination programs in Germany and Japan that paved the way for the rise of fascism in those countries. And, if we do not recognize the facts concerning our own history and understand what happened and why it happened, we ourselves are going to ultimately face results as devastating as what eventually stemmed from the assassination programs in those countries as well."
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The other assassination in 1963 had as its victim, Medgar Evers, the field secretary of the NAACP in Mississippi.
This video examines Evers' drive to get blacks to vote, the hardships they encountered at the registration office, his murder in his driveway, how the police tried to provoke violence at his funeral, and how all-white juries twice refused to convict his killer in the 1960's.
Thank you for posting this Gil.
Excellent.
Do you have any more footage of President Kennedy speaking on civil rights?
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JFK's Last Ride:
Probably the spookiest video I've put together so far. It gives me goosebumps when I watch it.
JFK aides discuss the atmosphere in Dallas prior to his visit.
A Fort Worth boys choir sings,
"The eyes of Texas are upon you
All the live long days
The eyes of Texas are upon you
And you cannot get away
Don"t you think you can escape them
From night till early in the morn
The eyes of Texas are upon you
Till Gabriel blows his horn."
Dallas Police Chief Curry warns the citizens against any "incidents".
The touchdown of AF-1 and motorcade is shown together with a right-wing speech given in Dallas two years earlier.
Yes those lyrics are eerie.
I wonder if that song was standard fare for dignitaries, or if it was a special number just for the occasion.
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A look at JFK's desire to put an end to testing nuclear weapons in the
atmosphere.
Gil, you're sharing some great footage.
Do you compile and edit the footage?
If so do you have longer clips of the segments you use?
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The Inaugural address of President John F. Kennedy, in which he says,
"to those new states who we welcome to the ranks of the free, we
pledge our word that one form of colonial control shall not have
passed away, merely to be replaced by a far more iron tyranny."
Sound like the America of today ?
I'm so glad we can easily see such footage now.
It sure is obnoxious, though, that LBJ's murderous mug is visible right behind the President.
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Candidate John F. Kennedy's 1960 speech on his religion before the Houston Ministers.
Classic video. Thanks for posting it Gil.
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Former President Harry S Truman holds a news conference to explain why he resigned as a delegate to the 1960 Democratic Convention and accuses the Kennedy camp of turning the convention into a "prearranged affair". In response, JFK holds his own press conference to answer the charges.
Great footage Gil, thanks!
Sort of funny too. John Kennedy had Joe Kennedy backing him, and Truman has Boss Pendergast to install him into office so he could pontificate about democracy. I notice Truman didn't mention Pendergast in his speech.
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So for the alteration nay-sayers, back to my original questions about the circumstances of Time/Life's possession of the Z-film.
Do you find it at all odd that a major news organization--Time/Life--would purchase a film showing the assassination of the President of the United States, and do nothing with it for years other than print a few stills?
For one thing, having the film in their possession enhanced the status of the owners and editors in Washington. From a social caste point of view, snagging the Zfilm was the ultimate "get" for a news outlet. It turned the Saturday Evening Post, Newsweek and Look into also-rans for years.
Also consider how media outlets behave when they are in possession of something that turns out to be bogus. For example, Germany's Stern magazine couldn't wait to serialize the fake Hitler Diaries. imo, when people have something truly valuable they keep it close to the vest and release tidbits.
Once they release it fully to the public, it's not theirs any more, their cachet evaporates. In the media and in politics, status is everything.
"Status." Ok, asked and answered. News organizations squirrel away crime evidence for status rather than newsworthiness.
This is a most informative thread.
Myra, this may seem hard to believe, but it's clear to me that Life Magazine bought the Z-Film for two reasons, 1) to keep the gruesome film from becoming a public spectacle 2) to make a boatload of cash. Life was big news in the 60s, and having the Z film meant millions of sales. Just as importantly, having the film prevented their competitors from getting millions of sales. I'd bet you the purchase paid for itself within the first year.
As far as alteration, I don't think there was any. There is reason to suspect that the FBI and Warren Commission deliberately printed the head shot frames in the wrong order, in order to hide that the head went back after the shot. As Life executive C.D. Jackson was close to Warren Commissioner John McCloy, there's also a possibility Life colluded with the WC to keep certain frames from the public. Since Jackson died in 64, however, it's possible his promises died with him...which might explain the magazine's switcheroo in 66.
Well it is hard to believe Pat, but at least you offer a scenario where there could be some legitimacy to Time/Life's possession of the film. I do have a hard time getting past the fact that Luce was the one that snapped up the evidence.
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http://www.maebrussell.com/Mae%20Brussell%...20Brussell.html
"Three weeks after the Watergate break-in, while the establishment press was calling it "a caper" and "a third-rate burglary," Mae Brussell completed a manuscript titled "Why Was Martha Mitchell Kidnapped?" She named names—John Mitchell, L. Patrick Gray, Richard Nixon, the FBI, the CIA—and I published her first by-lined article in The Realist.
"The CIA that killed President Kennedy and Robert Kennedy," she wrote, "did a test case in Greece on canceling elections. Andreas Papandreou, often compared with John Kennedy, appeared to have a good chance of winning the Greek election in 1967. The U.S. Army, the CIA and government agencies helped replace their elections with a coup d'etat. . . . The significance of the Watergate affair is that every element essential for a political coup in the United States was assembled at the time of the arrests."
Mae Brussell contends that Nixon's own Watergate plumbers, and the entire intelligence network they represented, were prepared to overthrow Nixon whenever it was deemed necessary by the true powers. Ultimately, she believes, the same men who brought Nixon to power via the Kennedy assassinations were also pulling the strings at Watergate."
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7...ters+bill+still
Per Bill Still, Producer/Narrator of The Money Masters at Tax Freedom Rally 2006, explaining how he got involved in investigative journalism:
"In October 1973 I was sitting watching the Watergate hearings with my dad, and he told me a story that drastically changed my life... He told me that a couple weeks earlier he'd been approached by someone claiming to be affiliated with the Nixon White House and asked how he and his friends in the military would feel about a military takeover of the US government, the purpose of which would be to install President Nixon into office for a third term, and possibly subsequent terms. He was told there was virtually unlimited money behind the effort, and that any military office that wished to join could name his price. [He then explains his dad's background, and why he would have been so critical to the coup effort. Still wrote about the episode in a book, and notes that no media person ever called his father to ask about the episode.]
After my dad told me this he and I tried to alert the DC press corp. We actually had an appointment scheduled with Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein, the Washington Post reporters who ended up authoring the book and the movie "All the President's Men." But they blew us off and only sent their editor Bob ? down to talk to us. And of course nothing appeared in the Washington Post about this. They had Watergate all figured out. They didn't need somebody muddying the waters with some vast conspiracy tale.
In the months that followed, between October '73 and Nixon's resignation in August '74, I continued to try to push the story and got a lot of heat for it. I looked down the barrel of a 38 special; believe me that's no fun. It was a time of car chases and paranoia and during that period I slept with a 9mm handgun under my pillow.... It was a scary time and I feared for my life every day. And once Nixon resigned the pressure was off but it took me quite a while to realize it. I knew that I was going to have to write about this incident and the meaning of it because no one else was going to do so."
He wrote about the Nixon incident in his first book:
"New World Order: The Ancient Plan of Secret Societies" by William T. Still
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I have a copy of the Northwoods memo, called "The Justification for US Military Intervention in Cuba", dated 13 March 1962.
It is disturbing indeed to think that the US military would consider committing acts of terrorism against its own citizenry and blaming it on a foreign enemy, as a pretext to war. It is even more disturbing in light of the tragedy of 9/11 and our current quagmire in Iraq.
The memo states, " We could develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington."
In his book, "The Man Who Knew Too Much", author Dick Russell tells us of a plot to kill Kennedy in the Washington, DC area at the end of September, 1963. He also tells us that Oswald was at a meeting held sometime between August 23rd and August 27th, where the subject of killing Kennedy was discussed.
In addition, according to Russell, Oswald communicated to the Communist Party, USA and the Socialist Workers Party, that he and "his family had planned to move to the Washington-Baltimore area at the end of September".
Interestingly enough, CPUSA and the SWP were both targets for the FBI's COINTELPRO, the counter-intelligence program which included the opening of the target's mail.
Under these circumstances, one needs to ask the question: "Was Oswald sending a coded message to the FBI warning them that his "family" of assassins were planning to kill Kennedy in the "Washington-Baltimore area" at the "end of September" ?
Operation Northwoods did provide for the "attempts on lives" and "wounding" of Cuban refugees.
on page 9 of the document, it states:
"We could foster attempts on lives of Cuban refugees in the United States even to the extent of wounding in instances to be widely publicized. Exploding a few plastic bombs in carefully chosen spots, the arrest of Cuban agents and the release of prepared documents substantiating Cuban involvement also would be helpful in projecting the idea of an irresponsible government".
What happens when we change a few words in that last statement and apply it to the JFK assassination ? Would it make sense ? Let's see.
We could foster attempts on the life of President Kennedy in the United States even to the extent of assassination to be widely publicized. Exploding a few plastic bombs in Dealey Plaza, the arrest of a "Castro sympathizer" and the release of prepared documents substantiating Cuban involvement also would be helpful in projecting the idea of an irresponsible government".
It is my opinion that Kennedy's assassination was right out of the pages of Operation Northwoods.
Interesting thoughts Gil. I've wondered about Oswald's planned move to DC. It would make sense if they were moving him into patsy position.
Any idea why the DC assassination did not take place?
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So for the alteration nay-sayers, back to my original questions about the circumstances of Time/Life's possession of the Z-film.
Do you find it at all odd that a major news organization--Time/Life--would purchase a film showing the assassination of the President of the United States, and do nothing with it for years other than print a few stills?
For one thing, having the film in their possession enhanced the status of the owners and editors in Washington. From a social caste point of view, snagging the Zfilm was the ultimate "get" for a news outlet. It turned the Saturday Evening Post, Newsweek and Look into also-rans for years.
Also consider how media outlets behave when they are in possession of something that turns out to be bogus. For example, Germany's Stern magazine couldn't wait to serialize the fake Hitler Diaries. imo, when people have something truly valuable they keep it close to the vest and release tidbits.
Once they release it fully to the public, it's not theirs any more, their cachet evaporates. In the media and in politics, status is everything.
"Status." Ok, asked and answered. News organizations squirrel away crime evidence for status rather than newsworthiness.
This is a most informative thread.
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So for the alteration nay-sayers, back to my original questions about the circumstances of Time/Life's possession of the Z-film.
Do you find it at all odd that a major news organization--Time/Life--would purchase a film showing the assassination of the President of the United States, and do nothing with it for years other than print a few stills?
No.
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Not one to over discuss things eh Kathy?
You take the astonishing position that there's nothing at all odd about a major new organization purchasing then hiding one of the most significant pieces of evidence in one of the biggest crimes ever committed, and feel no need to explain your thought process.
Well your succinctness sure keeps the thread short. There is that upside.
...I can't see for the life of me what purpose it serves,were it altered.
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We would have to know all the details of the murder to understand the purpose of altering evidence wouldn't we?
Given that we (or at least I, don't want to speak for you) don't know all the details I can only speculate about the purpose of altering major evidence like the Z-film. Among the possibilities:
-Hiding the possibility that the presidential limo came to a stop.
-Hiding the possibility that one of SS agents in the front seat of the presidential limo did something incriminating.
(Even more incriminating than sitting around with their thumbs up their asses while the president is murdered.)
-Hiding indisputable evidence of a shot from the front.
-Hiding indisputable evidence of more than three shots fired.
There are infinite possibilities, and infinite reasons for altering footage of a successful plot to murder a US president.
...I believe the Backyard Photos are doctored, but that has a purpose---to make Oswald very much look like the assassin.
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Gee, altering the Z-film to hide shots hitting multiple parts of the limo and occupants from multiple angles just might serve the exact same purpose--"to make Oswald very much look like the assassin"--eh?
...Perhaps, Myra, maybe we should turn all the lights off in Dealey Plaza, and see what is left---
only sounds.
Wow that is so poetic.
What does it mean?
Edited langauge.
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...
The bit about Lemnitzer being on the Rockefeller Commission is interesting, it goes beyond conflict of interest and makes one think of line about the fox and the hen house but Ford probably didn’t know about O. Northwoods. Didn’t they reveal MLK/Ultra?
Hey hey hey, let's show the proper respect. After all, you're talkin' about a Recipient of the Presidential Medal of Freedom, awarded by President Ronald Reagan on April 21, 1987. And he received his reward...I mean award the same time John McCone got his. He sure fell in with the right crowd:
"The President today announced his intention to award the Presidential Medal of Freedom, the highest civilian award of our government, at a luncheon to be held at the White House on June 23, 1987. The following individuals will be given this prestigious award by the President:
...
General Lyman Lemnitzer, for his contributions of outstanding military service to his country.
Mr. John McCone, for his contributions in the fields of public service and national interests of the United States as former Director of CIA."
http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/spee...987/042187e.htm
I guess LLL made an important connection when he and Reagan served on the Rockefeller Commission together, huh?
"President Gerald R. Ford created the Commission on CIA Activities within the United States on January 4, 1975. He directed the Commission to determine whether or not any domestic CIA activities exceeded the Agency's statutory authority and to make appropriate recommendations. He appointed Vice President Nelson A. Rockefeller chairman of the Commission. (The Commission is often referred to as the "Rockefeller Commission.") Other members were ...Lyman L. Lemnitzer, Ronald Reagan...
http://www.ford.utexas.edu/library/guides/...20-%20Files.htm
The Warren Commission and Rockefeller Commission sure were well stocked with right wingers who hated President Kennedy because he fired them.
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So for the alteration nay-sayers, back to my original questions about the circumstances of Time/Life's possession of the Z-film.
Do you find it at all odd that a major news organization--Time/Life--would purchase a film showing the assassination of the President of the United States, and do nothing with it for years other than print a few stills?
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(Dealey Plaza and other locals) on vacation or reading circulated [advance] copies of Bugliosi's upcoming tome?
If a late May release date is accurate, the book has to be sitting on cablenews talk-show producers and/or booking agents desks now...
Any news, or is it, "more of the same...."?
DHealy
Maybe they'll publish it on President Kennedy's birthday. Obviously, I have not read the unpublished book. But it is more of the same. Oswald did it alone from the 6th floor of the Texas School Book Depository.
Kathy
It's been scheduled for release on President Kennedy's birthday for quite a while:
http://www.amazon.com/s/002-5533782-275606...=Mozilla-search
Can't let a major anniversary like that pass without a propaganda eruption to offset the inherent good publicity.
Here's what I've long wondered about those who deny that the Z-film is altered. Do they truly believe that a film with that kind of evidentiary significance would sit unmolested in the vault of Henry Luce, the Dean of CIA Mockingbird propagandists, for years? Just knowing the provenance of the Z-film should be enough to discredit it as evidence.
I for one shan't be wasting good money on it, might give it a look once it hits the liberies. It will be Posner with his flies done up.
I will probably end up buying Bugliosi's book and studying it in detail. As far as the Z-film being altered and Luce being part of some conspiracy etc., I seem to remember that it was Life Magazine, FROM its study of the Z-film, that first called for a new investigation. In November 1966.
Now why would they do that if the film had been altered to hide a conspiracy? Well, maybe because the film shows Kennedy and Connally react seconds apart, and raises great doubt they were hit by the same shot...
That's interesting Pat; I've never heard that Life took that stance.
If you have sources that you can share so that we can look into it ourselves it'll be even more interesting.
Thanks.
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http://www.statesman.com/news/content/news...13txdigest.html
"Friday, April 13, 2007
DALLAS
JFK assassination photo for sale
A grainy, fingerprint-smudged black-and-white photograph taken when President Kennedy was assassinated is going up for auction.
The Polaroid picture taken by Mary Ann Moorman shows the president and first lady Jackie Kennedy ducking as their motorcade passed through Dealey Plaza on Nov. 22, 1963. Abraham Zapruder, who famously filmed the assassination, is visible in the distance.
For years, the picture had been on loan to the Sixth Floor Museum in Dallas, but Moorman, who is in her 70s, decided to sell it, said Lou Fausak, owner of Legend Sales Inc., which sells items for customers on eBay.
"We're sorry that it's not going to be part of our permanent collection, but beyond that, we're not going to comment," museum spokeswoman Deborah Marine said.
Fausak said he expected the picture to have a minimum reserve of about $500,000 when it becomes available for 10 days starting Monday.
"Something like this, there's just no telling what it's going to go for," he said."
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Do you recommend it?
Any other books on McGeorge Bundy you'd recommend?
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(Dealey Plaza and other locals) on vacation or reading circulated [advance] copies of Bugliosi's upcoming tome?
If a late May release date is accurate, the book has to be sitting on cablenews talk-show producers and/or booking agents desks now...
Any news, or is it, "more of the same...."?
DHealy
Maybe they'll publish it on President Kennedy's birthday. Obviously, I have not read the unpublished book. But it is more of the same. Oswald did it alone from the 6th floor of the Texas School Book Depository.
Kathy
It's been scheduled for release on President Kennedy's birthday for quite a while:
http://www.amazon.com/s/002-5533782-275606...=Mozilla-search
Can't let a major anniversary like that pass without a propaganda eruption to offset the inherent good publicity.
Here's what I've long wondered about those who deny that the Z-film is altered. Do they truly believe that a film with that kind of evidentiary significance would sit unmolested in the vault of Henry Luce, the Dean of CIA Mockingbird propagandists, for years? Just knowing the provenance of the Z-film should be enough to discredit it as evidence.
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Well if Jimmy Wales, founder of Wiki Propagandapedia, is involved then I automatically mistrust any stated motives.
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Didn't Oswald make this statement two times while in custody?
I can understand a Father being concerned about new shoes being provided for a child, however,
I hardly believe that this would have been a priority for Oswald under his circumstances.
This sounds like it could be a coded request for assistance of some sort.
Any thoughts on this?
OHMYGOD.
I'm reading "Executive Action" by Mark Lane (et al) now.
It's a "fictionalized" account of President Kennedy's murder (in the same way that the WCR is a "factual" account."
It has frequent footnotes to define the jargon.
At one point a high level CIA agent (Preston) says to an asset he's trying to persuade to sign on as an assassin:
Preston>"I've never seen a better cover plan. You will be personally escorted from the scene ty the S.S."
...
Asset>"The S.S.?"
Preston>Our straight penetration agents. And you'll have S.S. shoes" too."
Footnotes:
S.S.--The Secret Service
Penetration agents--Agents who infiltrate another organization for life
Shoes--False documents
Ahem...
Pg 48 of hardcover version, eighth printing May 1975
GOOD eye Chuck.
---
Oswald's last words by Mae here, for context:
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/LHO.html
"...
1:10 - 1:30 P.M. Lee Harvey Oswald Visited by Mother, Marguerite Oswald, and Wife, Marina Oswald
(To his Mother.) "No, there is nothing you can do. Everything is fine. I know my rights, and I will have an attorney. I already requested to get in touch with Attorney Abt, I think is his name. Don't worry about a thing."
(To his Wife.) "Oh, no, they have not been beating me. They are treating me fine. . . . You're not to worry about that. Did you bring June and Rachel? . . . Of course we can speak about absolutely anything at all. . . . It's a mistake. I'm not guilty. There are people who will help me. There is a lawyer in New York on whom I am counting for help. . . . Don't cry. There is nothing to cry about. Try not to think about it. . . . Everything is going to be all right. If they ask you anything, you have a right not to answer. You have a right to refuse. Do you understand? . . . You are not to worry. You have friends. They'll help you. If it comes to that, you can ask the Red Cross for help. You mustn't worry about me. Kiss Junie and Rachel for me. I love you. . . . Be sure to buy shoes for June."
2:15 P.M. Lineup for Witnesses William W. Scoggins and William Whaley
"I refuse to answer questions. I have my T-shirt on, the other men are dressed differently. . . . Everybody's got a shirt and everything, and I've got a T-shirt on. . . . This is unfair."
3:30 - 3:40 P.M. Robert Oswald, Brother, in Ten-Minute Visit
"I cannot or would not say anything, because the line is apparently tapped. [They were talking through telephones.] . . . I got these bruises in the theater. They haven't bothered me since. They are treating me all right. . . . What do you think of the baby? Well, it was a girl, and I wanted a boy, but you know how that goes. . . . I don't know what is going on. I just don't know what they are talking about. . . . Don't believe all the so-called evidence." When Robert Oswald looked into Lee's eyes for some clue, Lee said to him, "Brother, you won't find anything there. . . . My friends will take care of Marina and the two children." When Robert Oswald stated that he didn't believe the Paines were friends of Lee's, he answered back, "Yes, they are. . . . Junie needs a new pair of shoes."
(Robert Oswald told the Warren Commission, "To me his answers were mechanical, and I was not talking to the Lee I knew.")
..."
...
More and more I get the feeling that Marina and Robert, for whatever reason, and there are many possible reasons why they could or would not, have not yet told all that they know regarding Harvey and what part, if any, they had played in supporting him in his various activities.
After reassuring Marina that she was free to speak, even though they were being monitored, the word of caution to Robert about the tapped phone is especially interesting.
What information were they worried about revealing to the Dallas authorities?
Is it possible that, knowing of the tap, Oswald was sending a message through the tap in hopes of getting help?
Hm, interesting question. Of course that still leaves the original question about the meaning of the shoe comments. But it makes it seem even more possible that, if he was trying to communicate over a tap, he could have been talking about "shoes" = documents/cover. He couldn't be real precise in his situation. He may have been getting as close as he dared to get to his real meaning.
-
Didn't Oswald make this statement two times while in custody?
I can understand a Father being concerned about new shoes being provided for a child, however,
I hardly believe that this would have been a priority for Oswald under his circumstances.
This sounds like it could be a coded request for assistance of some sort.
Any thoughts on this?
OHMYGOD.
I'm reading "Executive Action" by Mark Lane (et al) now.
It's a "fictionalized" account of President Kennedy's murder (in the same way that the WCR is a "factual" account."
It has frequent footnotes to define the jargon.
At one point a high level CIA agent (Preston) says to an asset he's trying to persuade to sign on as an assassin:
Preston>"I've never seen a better cover plan. You will be personally escorted from the scene ty the S.S."
...
Asset>"The S.S.?"
Preston>Our straight penetration agents. And you'll have S.S. shoes" too."
Footnotes:
S.S.--The Secret Service
Penetration agents--Agents who infiltrate another organization for life
Shoes--False documents
Ahem...
Pg 48 of hardcover version, eighth printing May 1975
GOOD eye Chuck.
---
Oswald's last words by Mae here, for context:
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/LHO.html
"...
1:10 - 1:30 P.M. Lee Harvey Oswald Visited by Mother, Marguerite Oswald, and Wife, Marina Oswald
(To his Mother.) "No, there is nothing you can do. Everything is fine. I know my rights, and I will have an attorney. I already requested to get in touch with Attorney Abt, I think is his name. Don't worry about a thing."
(To his Wife.) "Oh, no, they have not been beating me. They are treating me fine. . . . You're not to worry about that. Did you bring June and Rachel? . . . Of course we can speak about absolutely anything at all. . . . It's a mistake. I'm not guilty. There are people who will help me. There is a lawyer in New York on whom I am counting for help. . . . Don't cry. There is nothing to cry about. Try not to think about it. . . . Everything is going to be all right. If they ask you anything, you have a right not to answer. You have a right to refuse. Do you understand? . . . You are not to worry. You have friends. They'll help you. If it comes to that, you can ask the Red Cross for help. You mustn't worry about me. Kiss Junie and Rachel for me. I love you. . . . Be sure to buy shoes for June."
2:15 P.M. Lineup for Witnesses William W. Scoggins and William Whaley
"I refuse to answer questions. I have my T-shirt on, the other men are dressed differently. . . . Everybody's got a shirt and everything, and I've got a T-shirt on. . . . This is unfair."
3:30 - 3:40 P.M. Robert Oswald, Brother, in Ten-Minute Visit
"I cannot or would not say anything, because the line is apparently tapped. [They were talking through telephones.] . . . I got these bruises in the theater. They haven't bothered me since. They are treating me all right. . . . What do you think of the baby? Well, it was a girl, and I wanted a boy, but you know how that goes. . . . I don't know what is going on. I just don't know what they are talking about. . . . Don't believe all the so-called evidence." When Robert Oswald looked into Lee's eyes for some clue, Lee said to him, "Brother, you won't find anything there. . . . My friends will take care of Marina and the two children." When Robert Oswald stated that he didn't believe the Paines were friends of Lee's, he answered back, "Yes, they are. . . . Junie needs a new pair of shoes."
(Robert Oswald told the Warren Commission, "To me his answers were mechanical, and I was not talking to the Lee I knew.")
..."
If "visa or ID" was the context of the statement...that would imply that Robert and Marina were aware of the intelligence work being performed by "Harvey".
...
Not necessarily. Lee could have been hoping that his wife or brother would repeat his comments to... "friends"--like the Paines or George de Mohrenschildt, who would understand the "shoe" reference.
When Robert Oswald stated that he didn't believe the Paines were friends of Lee's, he answered back, "Yes, they are.[/b] . . . Junie needs a new pair of shoes."
If Lee had just made one "shoe" comment, esp to his wife, I'd be inclined to dismiss it as an attempt to act normal to calm her down and discuss mundane things couples discuss while showing concern for his child.
But the fact that he mentioned "shoes" twice within his short incarceration, once to his brother in the context of the Paines, makes me really think it's possible that "shoes" documents and cover. Lee was under unbelievable stress so maybe his comments were a bit odd... but he said the shoe thing twice to immediate family members.
Forum Rule Against Swearing
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
OOoooooo John, you knooooow what I want. I want to be disciplined by a stern British schoolmaster 'cause I talk dirty. Tell me I'm a naughty naughty girl...
Spank me John.