Myra Bronstein

I think this is a really good description of what's over the line versus what's not. Ad hominem attacks of the kind in Pat's examples are over the line IMO.

John>”In virtually every case, the culprits are Americans. I suppose this abusive behaviour must be part of their culture, however, people from outside the United States find it very offensive.” Adam>”I agree with him incidentally that many of the Americans here appear particularly poor at expressing themselves effectively without recourse to either.” What’s surprising about these statements is not that they’re so nasty. Certain sources can’t surprise in that way anymore. The amazing part is that these statements are made with no apparent sense of irony. Telling a large diverse group—in this case Americans--that their culture is abusive and that they’re unable to express themselves well is about as rude and mean-spirited as any remark could possibly be. And the very people spewing such statements are telling other people that they have behavior problems…? Actually it’s way beyond ironic, though it’s certainly that. It’s downright hypocritical. By contrast, and in spite of significant provocation, not one American here has made a comparable comment such as: “Good god those Brits have an attitude even bigger than their heads!” or "My goodness the English are masters at claiming the high road while taking the low road." Not one…

Germany Orders 13 Arrests Over Alleged CIA Kidnapping (Update3) By Patrick Donahue Jan. 31 (Bloomberg) -- A court in Munich ordered the arrest of 13 people for the alleged abduction of Khaled el-Masri, a German citizen who says he was seized by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency and taken to a secret prison in Afghanistan. Evidence collected by prosecutors yielded ``clearly identifiable'' individuals who may be undercover CIA agents, the Munich prosecutor, which obtained the warrants, said today on its Web site. The 13 could be charged with deprivation of liberty and aggravated assault for the alleged seizure of el-Masri on Dec. 31, 2003, in Macedonia. El-Masri's claim of being kidnapped and flown to a prison where he was subjected to coercive interrogation has sparked a parliamentary probe in Germany and cast light on the U.S. practice of capturing terror suspects abroad and sending them to a third country, or ``extraordinary rendition.'' ... Broadcaster Norddeutscher Rundfunk reported that most of the suspects live in North Carolina and three of them have refused to address the allegations when confronted. NDR said the crew operated out of Majorca and worked for Aero Contractors, the successor of the CIA's former secret airline Air America. CIA spokesman Mark Mansfield, at the organization's Langley, Virginia, headquarters, declined to comment, as did Robert Wood, the press attaché at the U.S. embassy in Berlin. The investigation is one of several European legal procedures examining alleged U.S. renditions. Milan prosecutors say CIA and Italian operatives kidnapped an Egyptian cleric in 2003 and flew him to Egypt, where he was tortured during questioning. Italy's former intelligence chief, Nicolo Pollari, told a court this week that he's being used as a scapegoat by prosecutors. ... Chancellor Angela Merkel said after talks with U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice on Dec. 6, 2005, in Berlin that the two had discussed el-Masri and that the ``the U.S. conceded'' that the seizure was ``a mistake.'' While U.S. officials later disputed Merkel's statement, the German government has said Merkel's statement ``can stand as it is.'' Last May, the CIA asked a judge to dismiss el-Masri's lawsuit because it involves secret information that can't be disclosed in court. The American Civil Liberties Union, which represented el-Masri, and other human rights groups have said such abductions violate international law and Bush administration pledges against torture. ... To contact the reporter on this story: Patrick Donahue in Berlin at pdonahue1@bloomberg.net . Last Updated: January 31, 2007 10:21 EST http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...p;refer=germany (Bold text added by me/Myra.)

President Kennedy never would have ok'd this kind of crap. This kind of crap is part of the reason President Kennedy was murdered. And visa versa...

This makes me really uncomfortable. Banning people is a slippery slope. I've always appreciated John's restraint in dealing with jerks. It's resulted, IMO, in a forum where I feel that I can police my own behavior, aided by the many people I respect. I don't feel muzzled. I think the result is an environment where conversations can evolve into some unexpected and interesting ways. I feel like I can ask anything without fear of censor. Also, swearing is one of my hobbies. I don't direct it at real people, just at faux-gov't nazis, but I wouldn't want free-range swearing to suddenly get policed. I'm also concerned that John would end up spending an inordinate amount of time on moderation and on dealing with various online brats, and this would cut into his productivity and research. I really don't think he should have to babysit... Ideally. However, in spite of my queasiness at the prospect of more moderation, I don't have much stomach for the ongoing attacks on--in particular--Jack White's work. He's targeting precisely because he's credible, knowledgeable, passionate, and productive--ergo a threat to the lies. I'm sick of a certain obvious person who hounds Jack relentlessly, who IMO is a out-and-out xxxxx. So, I'm sorta all over the place on this subject. But the bottom line is that I'm concluding that only trolls should be banned if anybody is. I realize that fingering someone as a "xxxxx" is subjective and iffy. I'd define a xxxxx as someone who is here just to disrupt, and offers no research or outside sources or viewpoints aside from parroting the anti-conspiracy party line. To be clear, if a contributing member becomes emotional or frustrated or lashes out from time to time, that does NOT make them a xxxxx, that just makes them human. If a member posts information and/or sincere thoughts and/or research material/graphics, and also happens to be a smartass, that does NOT make them a xxxxx, that just makes them a smartass. By contrast, if someone merely mocks good research and/or sound opinion, or if they keep contaminating threads so that their bullxxxx posts are at the bottom making other members avoid the threads, I think they're a xxxxx. If anyone is banned it should only be hard-core trolls. Thanks for asking for our input John.

On one hand this makes me sick. On the other hand I welcome any attention to this crime for which the criminals still run free (in the White House no less).

Thanks, John...your final paragraph is absolutely correct. I was not criticizing you personally, just the inference that Costella deliberately has misrepresented the film. IT IS THE BEST AVAILABLE THAT I KNOW OF, without the original film or the 4x5 copies. It certainly is superior to the DVD he took it from, SINCE HE CORRECTED FOR THE SERIOUS ERROR IN ASPECT RATIO on the DVD! Do you admit that correction of the aspect ratio of IOAA was proper? Do you disagree that correction of the B&H lens pincushion distortion was proper? This was necessary to match actual photos of the plaza. Jack The Z-film is so suspect to me that it has lost the benefit of the doubt. I'll assume it's bogus unless it's proven otherwise. So I'm not gonna analyze it to death. I'm just not gonna rely on it in any way. It's a red herring as far as I'm concerned. I mean, my god, it was in the Time/Life/CIA vault for years...

I agree about the dual Oswald premise. I consider it pretty absurd, one of the few places I draw the credibility line. Furthermore, I don't care if it's true because it doesn't change the bigger truth. A great president was murdered by and for war profiteers in the CIA; patsies and back up patsies were in place. I'm after bigger fish than the patsies. I want Bush and his nazi klan to squirm under the bright light of exposure. Truth is the only justice President Kennedy, and his brother and son and Dr King and Malcolm X, will get--but I'll take it. Ms. Mellon's speech has just the right message. Past is prelude. There's a reason why the fascists in the USA don't want Americans to know history, and the reason is explained in this speech. 'Cause then we'll understand the present. Incidentally, I can't believe that bastard Poppy/Godfather Bush had the gall to try to prop up the huge steaming pile that is the Warren Report, at his fellow bastard's funeral. Even congress doesn't try to pretend that's true anymore, but good ol' Bush knows that Americans are so uninformed that some will gobble it up. xxxxers.

Yup, same here. In fact its part of the reason I post less frequently, 'cause I'm so lazy I never changed my password so I have to look it up and don't bother unless I have something earthshaking (like this) to say. It sure precludes the spontaneous response. But I understand your reason Andy and appreciate the explanation. This forum has a big ol' bullseye on it.

I just came across these quotes from Senator Ted Kennedy and had to share them. I'm so proud that he had the courage--when it mattered--to oppose the Iraq invasion, and now considers it the best vote of his long Senate career. That's leadership IMO. "My vote against this misbegotten war is the best vote I have cast in the United States Senate since I was elected in 1962," Kennedy said. "And my call more than a year ago - more than a year ago - to bring our troops home is one of my proudest moments." http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/6/3/121646.shtml "Well, first of all, I was opposed to the war. It was the best vote that I ever had in the United States Senate. And in January of 2005, I laid out a pathway toward what I think would have been reconciliation and success in Iraq, two years ago, that called for the reduction of troops, the redeployment of troops, talked about the Iraqis moving ahead in terms of the reconciliation and talked about the regional kinds of diplomacy. That was two years ago. Now, one thing about the Democrats is we will support our troops, but we also can support our troops so they are not in harm's way. And I think that's a very important..." http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,237021,00.html "KING: You called Iraq the overriding issue. You voted to go there or not? KENNEDY: No. The best vote I cast in the United States Senate was.. KING: The best? KENNEDY: The best vote, best vote I cast in the United States Senate (INAUDIBLE). KING: In your life? KENNEDY: Absolutely. KING: Was not to go to Iraq? KENNEDY: Yes, not to go to Iraq. KING: Why did you vote against? http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/20/lkl.01.html

Was he murdered? He had agreed to give interviews to the media in order to promote his book that was due out in March. I can imagine that the CIA was pleased to hear of his death. Can't ever rule out murder with this mob. And he died on a very congested news day--what with the scheduled STOU and more--where his obit would get buried along with his rancid putrid carcass. Good riddance ya bastard.

I got no problem with attaboys! In fact I encourage them. Thanks Terry. You made my day. (Of course it's early; the day could still go South.) Myra

Of course not all political activity is futile. My reference is to the decline and fall of the American republic, and the degree to which the people have let it happen. The country I loved has been taken away from me, if it ever really existed. And there is no way to get it back, particularly if it never existed. Do I have to be a party to what it's become, because I was born here? I'm basically an expatriate who can't leave. But there are plenty of Americans who have (I believe Peter Lemkin, for example, is an American who lives abroad, though I'm not familiar with his circumstances.), and I envy them all. I would feel so much cleaner living in some other country. Well I find that anger and disgust and embarrassment very understandable Ron. Though I'm starting to think it would be hard to go anyplace where the American Empire can't control it. The sun never sets on it you know... It's less understandable to direct that bitterness at the victim, and Ted Kennedy is certainly that. His two older brothers murdered, one attempt on his life (in an airplane crash that killed others and seriously injured Senator Kennedy) and--as Dawn noted--the "dire warning" of Chappaquidick. ("If Teddy knew the bear trap he was walking into at Chappaquiddick." --John Dean, 1973/http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ToA/ToAchp7.html.) And hell yes John Kennedy Junior was murdered. His whole damn family slaughtered, his own life threatened, his career damaged by the Rulers, and the ongoing smears of him remind me of the post-assassination assassination--also ongoing--of President Kennedy through propaganda. All Kennedys must be discredited so that no one cares enough to learn some history and thereby understand the present. So he's a victim in that sense too. Yet he continues to "have a go." I hope you know that there were only 21 Democratic Senators who had the courage and integrity to vote against the Iraq invasion in 2002. Senator Kennedy was one of them Ron. Another in that (too) elite group was the *late* Paul Wellstone. Senator Kennedy is most definitely showing courage, and routinely gives some of the most blistering and pointed speeches against the regime. He's having a helluva go. And he does not deserve to be called names by people who can't possibly comprehend what he's had to endure over the decades as his family is picked off one by one and he lives in the crosshairs. So even if he wasn't a brave and principled Senator I'd, as Sid said, give him the benefit of the doubt. Sid>"Without claiming his voting record - or anything else about him - is perfect, I think fair-minded observers might agree he's been one of the more effective legislators in Congress with a much better-than-average commitment to decent, progressive policies over a long period of time." I agree Sid. And thank you for posting the Senator's bold remarks after the JEL (Just Enough to Lose, per Time Magazine... ol' Luce must be spinning in his hell) surge was announced. Ron>"I'm basically an expatriate who can't leave." That's just beautifully put Ron. I'm sure many can relate. It's damn hard to stay upbeat nowadays. Still, there's work to be done... Well said, Myra! And yes, the gaze of the Evil Alliance is ubiquitous - there's no safe hideaway on the planet. Here in Oz, the media is so monolithic and the sheeple so thoroughly tamed that we even elect crims like Howard in fair votes! Get that? They don't even need to rort our voting system (just a little pruning here and there, especially in the Labor Party leadership, is all it takes to have duopoly consensus arounds such things as the sacredness of the 'American Alliance', the centrality of the War on Terror etc). So cheer up. At least Americans are smart enough to necessitate systematic vote rigging. That's the most twisted pep talk I've ever heard Sid. But I appreciate it. I thought I'd post an excerpt from a relevant news report about someone still having a go: " Minimum Wage Front And Center In Senate READ MORE: Ted Kennedy, John Sweeney, United States Almost two weeks after a bill to raise the Federal Minimum Wage easily passed the House of Representatives, the legislation has arrived on the Senate floor, with debate started yesterday and a vote expected by the end of the week. The measure to raise the minimum wage for the first time in a decade has been a long slog for Senator Ted Kennedy (D-MA) who brought the legislation to help the working poor before the previous, Republican-controlled Congress three times, only to see it shot down by the GOP on each occasion. "After 10 long years without a raise, it's long past time to share the wealth with America's minimum wage workers," said Kennedy, in a speech last week. "I'm optimistic that my colleagues in the Senate will agree, and we can take prompt action next week to give working families the raise they deserve. No one who works for a living should have to live in poverty." ... Said Kennedy in the Senate yesterday: "Americans understand the issues of fairness. They understand the importance of work. Americans have believed, for a long period of time, if you work hard and play by the rules, you should not have to live in poverty in the United States of America."" http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-geiger/m...ce_b_39357.html "If you're not for raising the minimum wage, you don't deserve to call yourself a Democrat." -- Ted Kennedy to John Kerry after Kerry raised doubts about raising the minimum wage http://tinyurl.com/24ewm

John, this is one of the best articles I've ever read. Thank you for posting it.

Thanks for starting the video group John. Youtube has allowed me to see some footage I'd have never been able to see otherwise. Hope Google does right by it...

**************************************************** Yes, Ash. I'm the main ditto-head around here, I admit it. But, whatever happened to Myra? Haven't seen hide nor hair of her in weeks. Maybe, she's on vacation, or sabbatical, or something. Thanks again, Pal. Here's a punch for you. I'm here! Hide, hair, the whole package. Happy belated birthday Terry.

Depp has a brain and a soul among his vital organs, and lives in another country where they have perspective. But he may lack the backbone to stand up to the forces that will oppose him if he tries to give context to the murder. Context is public enemy #1. "Depp to Make Film About Poisoned Ex-Spy The Associated Press Saturday, January 13, 2007; 1:11 PM LONDON -- Johnny Depp is making a film about a former Russian spy whose poisoning death in London has touched off an international mystery, the trade magazine Variety reported. Warner Bros. has bought the rights to a book about Alexander Litvinenko for Depp's production company, Infinitum Nihil, the magazine reported Friday. Depp will produce the film and could star in it, the report said. Warner Bros. is racing against director Michael Mann and Colombia Pictures, which has agreed to pay $1.5 million for the rights to another book being co-written by the former spy's widow Marina Litvinenko, and Alex Goldfarb, a close friend, Variety reported later on its Web site. The book is expected to be published in May by Simon & Schuster's Free Press imprint, the report said. Warner Bros. had tried unsuccessfully to buy the rights to the book by Litvinenko's widow, the report said. The studio has acquired the rights to a book by New York Times journalist Alan Cowell, which is expected to be published next year by Doubleday. ... The report said Columbia envisions an espionage thriller "exploring the collision between the deep rooted Russian power structure enforced by the KGB ... and the new wave of wild west capitalism" that followed the collapse of the Soviet Union..." (And proceeded the collapse of the Soviet Union...?) http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...tertainmentnews

Nice work Bernice. Thank you. It's amazing what bullxxxx we're expected to believe. Hell, if there really were a prior incident that damaged the interior of the presidential limo--then the SS looks even more "inept."

From what I understand, from past readings, was that they stated the dent was "already there" from a previous "mishap" while working or servicing the limo. [i could be mistaken here] I tried to check all the photos I could from that day, from Love field to Dealey Plaza, and I havent found anything close up enough to see if it was there or not. Im sure, as most of you, that it was hit during the shooting. Maybe you have some good photos of the limo in your collection Robin? If so, please post them for us. I also agree with you as to the hit. It appears to be hit from the right side, low trajectory, in a slight upward strike. Just my opinion FWIW. thanks-smitty Correct. It was already there from an earlier motorcade episode wherein SA Greer saw President Kennedy in the rear view mirror and shot on reflex.

Of course not all political activity is futile. My reference is to the decline and fall of the American republic, and the degree to which the people have let it happen. The country I loved has been taken away from me, if it ever really existed. And there is no way to get it back, particularly if it never existed. Do I have to be a party to what it's become, because I was born here? I'm basically an expatriate who can't leave. But there are plenty of Americans who have (I believe Peter Lemkin, for example, is an American who lives abroad, though I'm not familiar with his circumstances.), and I envy them all. I would feel so much cleaner living in some other country. Well I find that anger and disgust and embarrassment very understandable Ron. Though I'm starting to think it would be hard to go anyplace where the American Empire can't control it. The sun never sets on it you know... It's less understandable to direct that bitterness at the victim, and Ted Kennedy is certainly that. His two older brothers murdered, one attempt on his life (in an airplane crash that killed others and seriously injured Senator Kennedy) and--as Dawn noted--the "dire warning" of Chappaquidick. ("If Teddy knew the bear trap he was walking into at Chappaquiddick." --John Dean, 1973/http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ToA/ToAchp7.html.) And hell yes John Kennedy Junior was murdered. His whole damn family slaughtered, his own life threatened, his career damaged by the Rulers, and the ongoing smears of him remind me of the post-assassination assassination--also ongoing--of President Kennedy through propaganda. All Kennedys must be discredited so that no one cares enough to learn some history and thereby understand the present. So he's a victim in that sense too. Yet he continues to "have a go." I hope you know that there were only 21 Democratic Senators who had the courage and integrity to vote against the Iraq invasion in 2002. Senator Kennedy was one of them Ron. Another in that (too) elite group was the *late* Paul Wellstone. Senator Kennedy is most definitely showing courage, and routinely gives some of the most blistering and pointed speeches against the regime. He's having a helluva go. And he does not deserve to be called names by people who can't possibly comprehend what he's had to endure over the decades as his family is picked off one by one and he lives in the crosshairs. So even if he wasn't a brave and principled Senator I'd, as Sid said, give him the benefit of the doubt. Sid>"Without claiming his voting record - or anything else about him - is perfect, I think fair-minded observers might agree he's been one of the more effective legislators in Congress with a much better-than-average commitment to decent, progressive policies over a long period of time." I agree Sid. And thank you for posting the Senator's bold remarks after the JEL (Just Enough to Lose, per Time Magazine... ol' Luce must be spinning in his hell) surge was announced. Ron>"I'm basically an expatriate who can't leave." That's just beautifully put Ron. I'm sure many can relate. It's damn hard to stay upbeat nowadays. Still, there's work to be done...

I have to wonder what one hopes to gain in reading a book by a CIA thug. Since their "job" was to murder and lie (which tend to go hand in hand), how could anyone trust a word that's said in a book written by one of them?

Robert, I think it's a strong possibility that, as you suggest, UFO stories can be, at least in part, planted as a way to discredit anyone who embraces it along with a political plot. They can just be dismissed as some nut with a tin foil hat; nothing to see here just move along. I started to think that when I read about the Kilgallen supposed conversation that links President Kennedy with a UFO crash. In fact every time I hear a UFO story I see Alex Trebek. Fans of Darin Morgan will know what I'm talking about. One of the best TV shows I've ever seen was "Jose Chung's From Outer Space," written by Morgan for the X Files. Thumbnail summary: "Writer Jose Chung (Charles Nelson Reilly) interviews Dana Scully for a book called From Outer Space, about alien abductions. Flattered by the attention of one of her favorite authors, Scully opens up about a recent case where two teenagers out on a date disappear, only to reappear later with tales of abduction and hypnosis. Mulder and Scully investigate, only to find the case unraveling before their eyes when Scully's autopsy reveals a dead alien body to be an Air Force officer decidedly out of uniform, and the girl's second hypnotic trance reveals that she was put under not by a grey skinned alien but by an Air Force doctor. Every witness who steps forward gets weirder and weirder, until we are faced with hollow-earth enthusiasts and Dungeon & Dragons burnout-cases seeking escape from their mundane lives in the arms of alien space brothers. The infamous Men In Black wear the faces of Jesse "The Body" Ventura and Alex "Jeopardy!" ..." (Stolen from http://www.munchkyn.com/xf-rvws/josechung.html because I'm lazy.) Ok, so the Men in Black are dispatched to someone's home when they witness a UFO incident. They confiscate evidence and threaten the witness and depart, and the really cunning part is that one Man in Black looks exactly like Alex Trebek. (Played by none other.) It's cunning because when the witness tries to tell someone about the incident-- "Two gov't looking guys broke into my garage and stole my evidence and one was Alex Trebek!!! -- they're instantly discredited because it sounds so absurd. So that detail makes people dismiss anything else they say. And that's what UFO stories remind me of when they're, in any way, related to a CIA black op like the 60's era assassinations. Not that I disbelieve all UFO stories. Just that I think that kind of psy-ops strategy is likely in the CIA propaganda arsenal.

"It's in the grain of the wood. / It's in the needle's rust. / It's in the eagle's claw. / It's in the eyes you trust. / It's in the jackal's dreams. / It's in the sleet and the hail. / It's in the unmarked box that came today in the mail. / It's in the dead man's pocket. / It's in the child's first sin. / It's in the Constitution written in very small print. / It's in Colin Powell's lies. / It's in the shaman's trance. / It's in the cellar waiting, and it's in the best-laid plans. / Now, we could cut and run, take half the blame. / Don't stop now. That's why we came. / House gone up in flames. / It's in the national anthem. / It's in the scurrying roach. / It's in the closed partition between first class and coach. / It's in the relentless fever. / It's in the lonely room. / It's in the hands of fate. / It's in the pharaoh's tomb. / It's in the rich man's dreams. / It's in the poor man's hands. / It's in the body bags along the Rio Grande. / It's in the evening shade. / It's on the zealot's tongue. / It's in the widow's tears. / It's in the miner's lungs. / Now, we could cut and run, take half the blame. / Now, don't stop now. That's why we came. / House gone up in flames. / It's in the moon's dark spin. / It's in the cloudless sky. / It's in St. Peter's denial that he'd thrice deny. / It's in the distant thunder. / It's in the whispered prayer / that they won't find us hidden here beneath the stairs. / So consider yourself lucky, and watch what you say. / I got what I wanted, and you might get the same. / It's in bold print nailed to the cathedral door. / It's in the black, cold pressure on the ocean floor. / Now, we could cut and run, take half the blame. / Don't stop now. That's why we came. / Oh, Lord, house gone up in flames.” http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/about.aspx?id=13328 Great interview here. I didn't know that John Lennon's song "Imagine" was banned from Clear Channel after 911. Typical. Kill the person then erase them from history. Also some great quotes about their (Rage Against the Machine's) infamous trip to Mexico, where there's no first amendment... "We were gonna speak out, regardless of the consequences. At the end of the day, you've got to look at yourself in the mirror and be able to say, "Today, to the best of my ability, I did the right thing." So even though the, the, the Mexican military had said — we were in support of the Zapatistas and their struggle for indigenous rights and the rights of Mexican workers. And they said, "Whatever you do, you may not mention the Zapatistas during the concert. You do not enjoy free speech rights here, and you must not do it, or we'll shut down the show." So, we had Subcomandante Marcos, one of the Zapatista leaders, introduce the band after giving sort of a very powerful speech to the, to the crowd there..." Profiles in courage, eh? "I think, at the end of the day, I think the most important thing, whether it's in your home, whether it's in your place of work, your community, your country, or what you see going on in the world, is to have the courage to stand up for what you believe in, because the, the powers that be want you to be cowed into submission. They want you to sit alone, you know, watching your 5,000 channels of cable TV and to feel that you're isolated. One of the most important things that music can do is make people feel that they're not isolated." This forum has a similar effect.

I would like to read more by Ms. Pease. All I've read is... what's in this thread. Myra, Just Google her and you will get her Real History page, as well as her blog, which you can also receive,as an email. Lisa, together with Jim DiEugenio, did their fine magazine Probe- ( from which Ashton took the article he quoted)- for several years. Their book "The Assassinations" is excellent. Dawn Thank you Dawn. I'm just now getting into the Probe stuff, the website, the book, etc. Some of the best articles I've seen. Myra

Wow. Good find John. Ok, who wants to volunteer to get the book and do a cliffs notes summary for us?