Myra Bronstein

"Oswald Talked" is my nomination for the most useless book ever written about the JFK assassination.

Well, I think there are plenty more that are even more useless (Case Closed comes to mind, as do Conspiracy of One and Mortal Error, among others), and frankly I find the larger premises of the book - the Odio story, the Terrell and Fort Hood gun-running, for example - to be reasonably credible tie-ins to the assassination, perhaps only because they provide some rationale why LHO was set up as a patsy in the first place.

As a returnee from the Soviet Union, by 1963 one would think he'd fallen off most people's radars, and clearly he was up to something that caught people's attention, and sure had a demeanor like he knew something more about the killings than he was going to say (e.g., "it will all come out at my trial").

The problem, of course, is that the basic premise - that anyone overheard Oz say anything at all in the jail cell - doesn't seem to hold water unless, as the LaFontaines purport, someone was put in an adjacent cell to "pump" him and nobody's admitting to it ... and you've only got one person's word on that, and that's a problem.

Ah good points, thank you Duke.

I've been trying to decide if I should take the time to read it. Too many books too little time.

I'm wavering. Just not sure if it's credible.

Did Oswald really say "it will all come out at my trial"? Could you please point me to a source for that? It's rather significant if he said it.

glib sociopaths do better.

Yeah, but Clinton cries too - or at least pretends to. (I always get emotional too when I see him bite his widdle lip.)

Clinton usually doesn't bite his lip to fight off tears, he does it because it's sexy. And it's no wonder it's wasted on you; you're not the target audience ...Ron.

Bush the Elder breaks down and cries while talking about son Jeb. This is not the first time I have seen Bush cry when talking about his family. I remember seeing him do it on some TV interview show. What does this mean? According to all that's been written here and elsewhere about this former CIA director and VP, he is a totally ruthless, unscruplous individual who may have even had a hand in the JFK assassination. Could his crying be some manifestation of guilt that really has nothing to do with his loveable sons? Are there any psychologists here?

http://www.sptimes.com/2006/12/05/State/Go...ad_gets_t.shtml

I was just reading about that. Too amusing to see Poppy whining about supposed dirty tricks against Jeb.

Unless they include someone blowing Jeb's head off and massacring his family, Godfather Bush should just spare us the hypocricy go back to barfing on people.

Like Francesca I am still waiting for it to be delivered. It is one of the problems of being a JFK researcher and living in the UK.

I am therefore surprised that not more US members have not entered into a discussion with Larry on the book thread. I suspect that most members only look at the JFK section and miss out on the good information that appears in other sections like, history books, history debates, political debates, political conspiracies, RFK, MLK and civil rights, etc.

I just got mine Saturday, and just started reading it. I had the previous edition, which was outstanding. No alternative theories for me. This is it.

John, you're correct in assuming we are missing the forum's other sections. I didn't know Larry had a thread going elsewhere.

RJS

Well maybe it's just me, but I prefer to read a book before discussing it with the author.

And the book just came out.

Hi Larry,

I'm reading your book now, and I really appreciate the layout. The summaries for each chapter are great, the testing and research points are a very good idea (in fact I hope it sets a precident and other authors do it), and the material is arranged in a very logical way. In fact I read a few chapters then couldn't help myself and read thru all the summaries and appendices. Now I'll go back and read the rest. Congratulations and thanks for adding so much to our knowledge of President Kennedy's murder.

My question: It doesn't appear that you mention Nixon in the book. Do you personally think he had any role in the assassination?

Thanks.

Myra

I haven't read the Film Hoax book, but it's on order.

I did find this URL in an earlier ed thread on the subject, and it's the most compelling thing I've seen so far.

http://www.assassinationscience.com/johncostella/jfk/intro/

It supplies a film of Zapruder in the "click here" link almost half way down the page, and explains the importance of watching a stabilized version at normal speed.

The examples I found most persuasive were here:

http://www.assassinationscience.com/johnco...intro/fast.html

The impossibly fast head movements of Mrs. Connelly and the ever suspicious Greer.

This page is also noteworthy, showing the lack of blur of both car and stationary objects in the Life magazine stills.

http://www.assassinationscience.com/johnco...intro/blur.html

They address the critical "why" question, and I'm pretty satisfied with their answer. The altered film does not show that the limo stopped, which is incriminating to the driver and the SS. In fact it shows the limo speeding up at the same time four people are thrown forward from the force of a stop that is not shown. That's not to say that the stop is the only thing they're trying to hide, but it's a biggie.

On edit: Another significant reason for alteration is to show a burst of blood shooting forward from the President's head, supporting the bullet from behind theory, rather than shooting backward, which shows a shot from the front.

http://www.assassinationscience.com/johnco...ntro/blood.html

It's quite noticable that the blood explosion disappears after just one frame (the infamous 313). So all that brain and skull and blood are supposed to have dissipated in 1/16 of a second? I don't think that's possible.

This is aside from the question of available technology in the era in question, which you all are hashing out.

Another possible reason for alteration is to mask the reported movement of the umbrella up and down as if to signal something to someone. I keep hearing that it happened but I sure don't see it in Zapruder.

I'm looking for information about LHO's physical stay in jail between Friday and Sunday. Did he sleep? What did he eat? Did he bathe? Shave? Was he allowed privacy of any type for personal hygiene? Besides being interrogated, making phone calls and receiving visitors, what was he doing in his cell?

I presume he was under constant watch but I've read little about the exact activities.

Mark, I really thought that there were some accounts of Oswald in his cell in "Oswald Talked." Probably not about eating and bathing though. More what he said. I flipped thru the book trying to find passages for you 'cause I have it now but haven't read it. I'll let you know if I do find material, but it may not be soon 'cause I'm absorbed in other books.

Anyone have opinions on "Oswald Talked"?

Anyone here save Kennedy half dollars?

I just find it kinda interesting that they couldn't get enough in circulation, supposedly because the President was so beloved. Yet they slowed down production of them. It's probably just 'cause people don't like carrying coins bigger than the quarter though. Probably no second agenda...

Anyone overseas ever see the Kennedy coins?

http://search.ebay.com/kennedy-half-dollar...rdsreturnedZ300

"The Kennedy half dollar replaced the Franklin half dollar within a year of the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. Ironically, the new Kennedy design caused the slow dissaperance of the half-dollar as a regular mainstream circulating coin, through a series of unrelated events. First, Collectors and even ordinary citizens hoarded the coins of 1964, due to the "new" design, & because President Kennedy was so beloved. In 1965 Silver was eliminated from other coin denominations ( dimes & quarters became copper-nickle clad), but silver remained in the half-dollar. The "older" Franklin halves of 90% silver were quickly removed from circulation by collectors and hoarders, and since the public now hoarded silver coins, most of the 90% silver 1964's, as well as the 40% silver composition 1965-1970 halves therefore saw little circulation as well. By time the Kennedy half dollar became "regular" copper-nickel clad in 1971, many banks, merchants were already used to no longer stocking and using the denomination as they were in the pre-1964 days, and the general public had the "collector's item" status of the coin firmly planted.. The half dollar has always circulated to some extent, but has yet to "bounce back" to the level of circulation it had in the years before 1964.

In 1975 and 1976, the bicentennial half dollar was minted showing Independence Hall on the reverse. All of the bicentennial halves are dated "1776–1976." Starting in 1977, the half dollar experienced a decline in use and mintage. By 2002, the coins were no longer minted for commercial use, but only in special mint rolls, mint sets, and proof sets for collectors."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennedy_half_dollar

Just finished chapter 16 about Bobby Baker. WOW!

Complex Wheeling and Dealing made quite clear. For the first time I can see how Miami conects with Chicago and Cleveland! This after about ten books. It really makes me wonder if Waldron was not obfuscatin on thin ice! (thick with words)

I can already hear The History Channel Destroying their CDs!! Guys Relax!! They're never letting Larry on the tube with this stuff!

IT'S DANGEROUSLY INTELLIGIBLE.

We must make up the difference by posting things all over the place (especailly web sites of U.S. daily newspapers with lots of viewers) about this book.

The tree has fallen.

Forest, alert the Alsop brothers!

Well I am convinced. Am gonna order it from Amazon. I sure Larry is happy about all the kudos he's received here. Sounds like they are well deserved.

Dawn

I ordered it from Larry's website Dawn and got it very quickly. Amazon can be really slow.

Plus I got an autographed copy from the website (did everyone get an autographed one?):

http://www.larry-hancock.com/order.html

Just finished chapter 16 about Bobby Baker. WOW!

Complex Wheeling and Dealing made quite clear. For the first time I can see how Miami conects with Chicago and Cleveland! This after about ten books. It really makes me wonder if Waldron was not obfuscatin on thin ice! (thick with words)

I certainly agree with that. And don't forget Hartman.

Though I never would have thought to word it that way.

Is this scenario even remotely feasible?

In November 1972, Nixon and Agnew win re-election. Within months, an investigation commences against Spiro Agnew, a sitting Vice-President of the United States.

Nelson Rockefeller expects Nixon to appoint him as VP after Agnew is dumped.

Nixon doesn't want to because of Nelson's image as having too much wealth and ambition, and because he doesn't trust Rockefeller not to kill him to become president.

So Nixon appoints loyal lapdog Ford.

Rockefeller is pissed and stops protecting Nixon from the burglery backlash. Rockefeller unleashes his media and they tear Nixon apart.

The Rockefellers tell Nixon to resign (in disgrace) so Ford moves to President and appoints Nelson Rockefeller Vice-President. Ford pardons Nixon within thirty days; which the Rockefellers think would preclude Ford from the Presidential nomination in 1976, since the country would refuse to vote for him. That paves the way for Nelson.

Taken from:

http://www.senderberl.com/recapturing/america/chapter4.htm

(A novel/fiction/fictional dialogue.)

Myra, fwiw, I don't think any of the clan had anything directly to do with it -- but they did play a part in shaping the conditions which ultimately led to it.

George Michael Evica's book, "A Certain Arrogance" covers the Rockefeller's involvement in using religion as cover for psyops. There is now a thread on that book.

Ah, I hadn't looked thru that thread Greg, thanks.

I have been looking at "The Life of Nelson A. Rockefeller" by Cary Reich at Amazon. It looks good, unforunately it seems to end before the assassination. I guess it was volume one of a two part work but Reich died suddenly before volume two was done... So, anyone know the circumstances of Reich's death?

Any other books about David or Nelson that give real history, esp their associations with the CIA?

Again fwiw, Michael Paine has been quoted as saying that Oswald "thought the country was run by a largely hidden cabal of capitalists. The only particular one he was able to name for me was David Rockefeller."

Ah hah. Can you point me to a source for that?

Interestingly (or not!), that is a mainstay of Birch conspiracy theories. From answers.com: "The society has also contended that an elite international cabal—the U.S. branch of which supposedly includes the Council on Foreign Relations, for many years led by David Rockefeller—is seeking to establish a world tyranny."

There's a lot of overlap between far left and far right beliefs. I agree with much of what Birchers say. Obviously not everything.

Actually, it's funny that Mike Paine should be putting Bircher doctrine in the mouth of LHO, since he himself was the one who wanted to join the Dallas JBS and attended their meetings. Hmmm.

Wasn't the designated patsy in for the canceled Chicago trip a John Bircher, or at least Birch-dipped?

Then there is evidence that an employee of the Rockefellers once leased a property from an uncle of Michael Paine (according to AJ Weberman).

And lastly, there's the allegation of right-wing extremist and FBI informant, Roy Frankhouser, that he met Oswald and Ruth Paine at a NYC meeting of the Comite International de l'Organisation Scientifique. Who hosted that little shindig? David Rockeller.

Communists/Castro/Jews/Rockellers -- all on right wing s--t lists and all at some stage were potential false sponsors.

Ok, thank you. Good info.

On edit: Quotes from/about David Rockefeller per Wiki:

"For more than a century, ideological extremists at either end of the political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as 'internationalists' and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure - one world, if you will. If that is the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it." - From David Rockefeller's "Memoirs" (p.405).

"For David Rockefeller, the Presidency of the United States would be a demotion." - The standard joke in America for a time in the 1970's, as quoted in Harr & Johnson The Rockefeller Conscience; An American Family in Public and in Private (1991) (p.217).

"The journalist Bill Moyers, in his 1980 TV special, The World of David Rockefeller, described the plutocrat respectively as "the unelected if indisputable chairman of the American Establishment" and "one of the most powerful, influential and richest men in America", who "sits at the hub of a vast network of financiers, industrialists and politicians whose reach encircles the globe." - Quoted by Will Banyan in his 2006 study: The Proud Internationalist.

The use of false papers, uniforms, rifle snipers in urban areas, mis-direction

and a politically charged patsy all point to Latin American inputs, and of course

Nelson Rockefeller was Eisenhower's US liasson for all things south of the border..........

Yes Shanet, I'm starting to see how he insinuated himself into so many administrations, but just couldn't get the big prize. Thanks.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKrockefeller.htm

Myra,

I'm not sure if this is the photo in question, but if you look up at that first floor balcony, there seems to be someone crouched down behind the railing.

FWIW.

James

Wow, great picture.

Thanks James!

After viewing this movie by Aaron Russo, tell me:

"Now Who Killed The Kennedys? I said after all, it was you and me."

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4...98%20&hl=en

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There is something I would like to contribute here, first Terry Mauro has a lot of company there are millions of American's who feel the same way, they just don't have a voice in the current Orwellian media. There are a zillion events in America, USA that scream corruption, facism, and police state in an ascending scale over the last 30 years; state sanctioned assassinations, the A List of Assassinations, that once included JFK, MLK, RFK and Malcolm X, has expanded to include the deaths of several prominent American's which to say, seem suspicious in light of all known facts would be an understatement...and include Senator's John Tower, Paul Wellstone and possibly Sen John Heinz III. For the sake of debate, I will not mention Vincent Foster, but many people have, I will mention the assassination attempt on Pres. Reagan, when Papa San was Vice President and only a lone nut's bullet away from the White House, too bad about the "cropped" pictures that were in the paper the day after the Gipper took one for Team USA, the uncropped photos showed a person on top of the roof in the background.....

I don't suppose anybody has "uncropped photos [showing] a person on top of the roof in the background" when Reagan was shot?

I know that there's a widespread perception that some Rockefellers (David? Nelson? Other(s)?) are culpable in President Kennedy's murder, and other evil-doings. Yet I haven't seen a thread about them.

Is that because of:

-Fear?

-The fact that it's hard to get specifics on the Ruling Elite?

-Lack of source material to cite?

-The inevitable result of a mysterious two day forum outage?

-All of the above?

-Other?

Or do people think it only went as high as Tx oil millionairs, CIA, LBJ--therefore the Rockefellers had nothing to do with it?

Does anyone else watch that show, "Numbers" on some network on TV? (The downside of Tivo, I have no idea what networks own what shows.)

So a recent episode actually had a plot that included programmed assassins, victims of MKUltra.

SPOILER ALERT***

Not only did they show the past victims of it, they showed it as an ongoing program; the CIA guy on the show was the bad guy. In fact, when the main good guy realized that the CIA guy was trying to protect the MKUltra program for future use, the good guy (FBI agent) punched the hell outta him. Laid him out flat. Another FBI agent then told the CIA scum to stay down unless he wanted to get punched again.

I highly recommend catching the rerun for the theraputic vicarious thrill of seeing a CIA goon get thumped on.

Some good philosophizing in it too. Wow I'm surprised a mainstream show would use that program in a plot.

Has anyone seen other TV programs utilizing such sensitive CIA programs this way?

On edit: A summary of the plot is here:

http://www.tv.com/numb3rs/brutus/episode/904825/recap.html

I am reading Larry Hancock's second edition of Someone Would Have talked.

It is amazingly clear. It is probably the Tenth Book I have read on the Assassination, and I wish that I had read it first. If you are thinking of recommending a book to a novice it should be this one.

Its amazing that I could recommend it to a novice given the stunning amount of new information gleaned from the very latest research. How one can integrate this new info with the older background narrative so clearly is beyond me ( as well as Joan Mellon and Lamar Waldron).

The complex interrelationships between JM-WAVE, Langley , Hoover and the local FBI offices are-- as they recommend to novelists-- shown not told. Nowhere did I get the sense from Ultimate Sacrifice of the writer protesting too much (mob did it , mob did it). Rather, Larry shows the complex interelationships between Organized Crime and CIA in a clear way that, in my reading, does not make JM-WAVES denial nearly as plausible as it seems in Waldrons' doorstopper.

Sorry if my headline sounds a bit authoritarian. The book is that good.

For once I'm doing what I should do then! Mine arrived yesterday. (Autographed--brag.) I looked at James' excellent photos. Kudos James. You're in Larry's acknowledgements. I'm only up to the Oswald section though, 'cause I'm reading, like, 10 books right now. I'll get back to Larry's tonight.

Nothing like a good whodunnit. Esp in this case.

Larry, I hope you're flattered. This is literally the first book I've purchased on the subject. All others are from the library.

Does anyone have a scan of the early Nov. 22, '63 edition of the Dallas Morning News, with the article being discussed? (Myra Bronstein)

Here you go, Myra.

James

James! Thank you.

Man oh man...

1) Secretary in the police department's radio control division is removed from the division on D-day.

2) 12:29 pm on Nov 22, '63, Dallas -- "The Dallas Police radio systems Channel One, reserved for officers participating in the security of the President, is suddenly immobilized." --"Trauma Room One"

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=8644

Um, they are related, right?

In case anyone reading this thread still believes the bombing of Hiroshima was necessary to save American lives, and that the Japanese were committed to fighting to the last man, they should heed the words of no less an authority than Allen Dulles. Dulles concludes his book, The Secret Surrender, about his efforts to negotiate a peace with German forces (who also were reported to be willing to fight to the last man), with the following passage...

"On July 20, 1945, I went to the Potsdam conference and reported there to Secretary Stimson on what I had learned from Tokyo--they desired to surrender if they could retain the emperor and the constitution as a basis for maintaining discipline and order in Japan after the devastating news of surrender became known to the Japanese people...If there had been a little more time to develop this channel of negotiation, the story of the Japanese surrender might have had a different ending."

The Japanese were boxed in. They weren't going anywhere. We could have bombed their factories faster than they could have built new ones. By writing "If there had been a little more time" Dulles is admitting that the decision to bomb was based upon activities unrelated to the will of the Japanese to surrender. He is as much as admitting that our fear of splitting the Japanese empire with Uncle Joe superseded any concerns we had with killing civilians. IMO.

Thanks for the Dulles quote Pat. And your analysis of it. Very helpful.

Interesting that JFK Jr was aslo buried at sea, under most mysterious circumstances.

Here's a can-opener to that particular container of worms, Dawn...

http://www.skolnicksreport.com/goldenboy.html

JWK

It is my opinion that the true number of convenient and mysterious deaths would shock even most conspiracy-oriented researchers, if known - and is beyond the credulity of most of the public. Johnson's statement of a 'Murder Incorporated' comes to mind....and I think he was NOT just talking about Latin America.

Does anyone know if JFK Jr was laid to rest in the same part of the ocean as his father?

There is always one person that knows if a politician is involved in corrupt activities. Their personal secretary. Walter Jenkins played this role for LBJ. He took great care about appointing him. It is no surprise that he selected a secret homosexual for the task. This gave him complete power over Jenkins (along with his own involvement in corrupt activities).

Therefore, it is not surprising that the secretaries of Bobby Baker (Nancy Carole Tyler) and George Smathers (Mary Jo Kopechne) were killed in accidents.

I have always felt that JFK’s secretary, Evelyn Lincoln, would have important information on the assassination of JFK. She knew who he was meeting and how he was responding to those conversations. Maybe JFK told her directly what was going on in the months leading up to the assassination. After all, we all need to talk to someone. Who better than the person always by your side. Not that Lincoln would ever disclose any information that would knowingly hurt JFK. She was too loyal for that. However, she might have revealed information that would have hurt his enemies.

Lincoln also had access to the tapes of JFK telephone conversations. Immediately after the assassination these tapes were seized by RFK (with the help of Secret Service agent Robert L. Bouck). Afterwards RFK showed concern about Lincoln’s knowledge of JFK's activities. He suspected that she had taken papers that belonged to JFK. However, he was unable to prove it. He also seemed scared of Lincoln. Friends say that RFK was often highly critical of Lincoln behind her back but was unwilling to take her on in face to face situations. RFK was right to be suspicious of Lincoln. When she died in 1995, tapes of JFK’s conversations were found in her possession. These were of course handed over to the Kennedy family and it is not known what was on them.

I read Lincoln’s My Twelve Years With John F. Kennedy some time. Published in 1965, it provided no useful information for people researching the assassination. I was aware that she had written another book, Kennedy & Johnson (1968). However, after the disappointment of her first book, I decided not to bother to read this one.

Recently I became very interested in the reasons why JFK selected LBJ as his running mate. During this research I came across a reference that suggested this issue was discussed in Lincoln’s book, Kennedy and Johnson. Using Abe Books I managed to track down a copy of this book. It arrived yesterday. It indeed does contain a lot of information that relates to the assassination (although Lincoln never attempts to show these links and never discusses what took place in Dallas).

As the title suggests, the book discusses the relationship Kennedy had with Johnson. Lincoln, like all JFK’s other close associates, was shocked by JFK’s decision to select LBJ as his running mate. She claims that LBJ was never once considered in the months leading up to the decision as a possible vice presidential candidate. The main reason for this was that JFK hated LBJ. This isnot surprising considering LBJ’s attacks on JFK during the campaign. He was especially upset by LBJ’s dirty tricks campaign.

In the book Lincoln points out the role that Philip Graham played in these events (we know from Bobby Baker’s book Wheeling and Dealing that Graham had been having meetings with LBJ in an attempt to get him the VP job). Lincoln claims that Stuart Symington had been offered the job of VP (he accepted). The problem came when Graham’s newspaper Washington Post published a story on the day of his nomination that JFK had selected LBJ as VP. This story disturbed JFK. He thought that his announcement that Symington was his choice would humiliate LBJ. He knew LBJ was in a position to cause problems when he tried to introduce legislative measures. Therefore he decided to personally explain to LBJ why he had chosen Symington. The meeting took place at 10.00 the morning after the nomination. JFK returned from the meeting with the news that he had given the job to LBJ.

Lincoln points out that when Graham published his account of events he lied about some important aspects of the case. Graham was obviously involved in this plot to get LBJ as VP. Why? We will probably never know as he committed suicide, aged 48, a few weeks before JFK was assassinated.

Lincoln goes on to describe the relationship JFK had with LBJ. Lincoln recalls the first important meeting the two men had after the decision had been made. It took place in JFK’s home. She saw the meeting through the glass. She also had reason to enter the room several times. She was shocked by what went on. Lincoln claims that LBJ did almost all of the talking. He constantly wagged his finger at JFK as if he was telling him what to do. Lincoln reports that JFK was distressed after his meeting. In fact, LBJ nearly always had this impact on JFK. Especially in the early days of the presidency when LBJ played an active role in decision making.

Lincoln was surprised by the way LBJ was able to persuade JFK to appoint his friends to positions of power. Lincoln was particularly shocked by JFK willingness to appoint John Connally as Secretary of the Navy. She knew that JFK did not like or respect Connally. This was an important post as it made decisions about government arms contracts. When Connally left to become Governor of Texas, he was replaced by Fred Korth, another one of LBJ’s buddies. JFK in fact gave LBJ the right of veto to “all job appointments for Texans, in or out of the state”.

JFK’s major objective when becoming president was to deal with the power held by the important Congressional Committees. He was particularly concerned about the seniority rule. LBJ had used this rule to ensure that his men chaired all the important committees. In this way they were able to block all liberal legislation from being passed by Congress. JFK had come under considerable pressure from liberal senators in the North to tackle this problem.

JFK’s first task was to undermine the power of Howard W. Smith, the chairman of the House Rules Committee. In this post he held a stranglehold over all legislation. One possibility was to get rid of his right-hand man, William Colmer of Mississippi. LBJ and Sam Rayburn rejected this idea. Instead they suggested that the size of the committee should be increased from 12 to 15. This would enable them to get a committee that would allow more liberal legislation through. LBJ and Rayburn promised they would ensure that Democrats in the South would vote for this measure.

JFK agreed to this proposal but later discovered that LBJ and Rayburn were in fact lobbying against this plan. The only way JFK could get in through was to persuade Republicans to vote for this proposal. JFK won the vote by 217 to 212. All 64 democrats from the South and border states voted against the legislation. However, JFK won because he had persuaded 22 Republicans in the North to vote for the proposal.

JFK now knew that LBJ was unwilling to help him get his legislation passed. Therefore he isolated LBJ from decision making and made preparations to replace him in 1964.

Stories on JFK’s plans to dump LBJ emerged as early as 1962. At a press conference on 9th May, 1962, JFK was forced to deny this story. However, it was true. JFK had already selected his 1964 running mate. His choice was Terry Sanford. The two men had become very close during JFK election campaign. By 1963 they held similar views on all the major issues. JFK became convinced that Sandford was the one liberal from the South who could help him get progressive legislation through Congress.

The Bobby Baker scandal reinforced JFK’s plans to dump LBJ. JFK became aware that LBJ was blackmailing Republicans with threats that their G.O.P. tax returns would be audited. At a press conference on 14th November, 1963, JFK admitted that the Department of Justice had discovered a great deal about Bobby Baker and he promised that appropriate action would be taken against all those involved in this scandal. JFK of course knew that this involved LBJ and the chairman of all the important committees in Congress. What he did not know was that Bobby Baker had cleverly pulled JFK into this scandal (see my posting in the Suite 8F Group later today for information on this) and that the full truth would never emerge.

Lincoln is also very interesting about what she has to say about the trip to Texas. She says that JFK was very reluctant to go on this trip: “Advance reports from our own staff and from many other people gave us cause to worry about the tense climate in Texas – and, most especially, in Dallas. Dallas was removed and then put back on the planned itinerary several times. Our own advance man urged that the motorcade not take the route through the underpass and past the Book Depository, but he was overruled.”

Lincoln comments on a meeting that took place between JFK and Connally only three days before Bobby Baker resigned. The meeting was about Baker and the proposed trip to Texas. After Connally left JFK told Lincoln: “He sure seemed anxious for me to go to Texas”.

Yet another astounding thread. It looks like it, if believed, addresses the mysterious motorcade route change. It also makes Connelly look super suspicious, which begs the question "why the heck would he ride in the death car?"

And it raises good points about the value of secretaries in investigative matters.

Is there some reason that Evelyn Lincoln doesn't get more attention? Does she lack credibility? What John posted from her Kennedy & Johnson book are bombshells. It confirms so many suspicions.

So about that autopsy illustration--anyone know who did it and where it can be found?

Stephen,

Mark, good find. Do you happen to know who, if anyone took her place that day?

I guess that would depend on which Channel she normally broadcast on.

Two people operated Channel 1, and one person operated Channel 2.

At 10:00 AM the two Channel 1 operators were J. A. McDaniel and B.D. Huffstutler.

They went off duty at 12:25 and were replaced by C.E. Hulse and M.J. Jackson.

Later in the day (around the time of Tippit's shooting), Jackson was replaced by McDaniel.

I guess McDaniel had gone out to lunch.

Sgt. G.D. Henslee was the Dispatcher for Channel 2 all day.

Police transcripts CE 1974 at 23H832

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Vol23_0432b.htm

Steve Thomas

Thank you for the link Steve.

I sure would like to find the source for her quote that her removal from her normal position was "astonishing."

Mark, good find. Do you happen to know who, if anyone took her place that day? Your right about James collection, its truely mind-bogling. Opps, posted before I saw the above reply. Please ignore.

His name is readily available in regard to the Dallas Police Tapes,

but it escapes my memory at the moment. However, I do remember

that he ordinarily was the police voice on KRLD radio every morning

giving traffic reports during drive time. If I think of it, I will post it.

As I recall, he was a sgt.

Jack

Was it C.B. 'Bud' Owens?

James

This thread is really astounding.

Does anyone have a scan of the early Nov. 22, '63 edition of the Dallas Morning News, with the article being discussed?

Anyone have any additional details on the Margie Barnes episode at all?

They could hit JFK from that sweet spot behind the fence

Cliff: do you think you could locate that "sweet spot behind the fence" for me? (Don't get rude, Cliff. This ain't a D.C. lawyer you're talking to here.)

I'd like to aim my virtual camera from this alleged "sweet spot." So far, I'm having a lot of trouble finding any spot behind that fence that doesn't have a motorcycle cop and/or spectator in the line of fire. You seem to know where it is, though. Help me out.

Ashton

This seems relevant:

Craig Roberts was a U.S. Marine sniper. In 1994 he wrote a book, Kill Zone: A Sniper Looks at Dealey Plaza. Here are two passages which I believe reading in some detail. I would be especially interested in hearing the views of other members of the Forum on this subject.

(1) Unlike Oswald, who failed to qualify on the rifle range in Boot Camp, and who barely qualified "Marksman"-the lowest of three grades-on a later try, I was a trained and combat-experienced Marine sniper.

...

First, I analyzed the scene as a sniper. In the time allotted, and in the distance along the street in which the rounds had impacted the target from first report to final shot, it would take a minimum of two people shooting. There was little hope that I alone, even if armed with the precision equipment I had used in Vietnam, would be able duplicate the feat described by the Warren Commission. So if I couldn't, I reasoned, Oswald couldn't.

...

(2) Knoll and the Picket Fence, which I had purposely saved for last. I walked up the slope and around the fence, arriving in a parking lot that was bordered on the northwest by train tracks. I walked the length of the fence, stopping at a spot on the eastern end.

I looked over the fence at Elm Street and froze. This is exactly where I would position myself if I wanted the most accurate shot possible considering the terrain I had explored. It had some drawbacks-it was close to witnesses, and prone to pre-incident discovery-but the advantages far outweighed the disadvantages for a determined assassin. The target vehicle would be approaching instead of moving away, thereby continually decreasing the range; the shot would be almost flat trajectory, making the down-angle formula a mute point; the deflection (right/left angle) would change little until the car passed a freeway sign on the north curbline; and finally, it offered numerous escape route possibilities. Behind me, to the north and west, was a parking lot full of cars, a train yard full of boxcars, and several physical terrain features to use as cover during withdrawal. It was by far the best spot.

Looking almost due east, across the grassy open park-like Plaza, I could see two multi-story office-type buildings approximately the same height as the Depository. The roof tops of either building would be excellent firing positions for a trained rifleman with the proper equipment, and would be the places I would select if I wanted the best possible chance of not being detected in advance. Without going to the roofs of each, I could not determine the accessibility of escape routes. But for firing platforms, they were ideal.

Then, considering the possibility of multiple-snipers (which meant a conspiracy), I had to ask myself how I would position the shooters to cover the kill zone in front of the Grassy Knoll?

My military training once again took over. I would use an area within the Plaza that would afford the best kill zone for either a crossfire or triangulated fire. Simply put, I would position my teams in such a way that their trajectory of fire converged on the most advantageous point to assure a kill. In the military, single snipers are seldom used. Normally, the smallest sniper team consists of two men, a sniper and his spotter/security man. Even in police SWAT teams, a marksman has an observer who is equipped with a spotting scope or binoculars to help pick and identify targets and handle the radio communications.

In this case, I would position at least one team behind the Picket Fence (more if I wanted to secure the rear against intruders), another on one or both of the two office buildings (which I later found to be the Dallas County Records Building and the County Criminal Courts Building), and possibly a team on a building across the street north of the Records Building known at the time as the Dal-Tex building. I would have never put anyone in the School Book Depository with so many locations that were much more advantageous unless I needed diversion. If I did, it would be a good place for red herrings to be observed by witnesses.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=6778

I wish Craig Roberts had hung around the forum; I'm reading his book now.

Hey Ashton, Whaddya think about this thread?

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=4970

Excerpt:

"Thomas H. Purvis

post Sep 16 2005, 10:55 PM

Post #4

...

QUOTE(Mark Knight @ Sep 16 2005, 09:25 PM)

8. Old "vintage" WWII aircraft were utilized in the coup in Guatemala as well as the Bay of Pigs (whatever it was).

Huh.

And they told us the mission failed due to the absence of air cover.

Howzaboutdat?

Despite what many may think, the "mission" was an engineered and "designed failure".

There were some twenty old B-26 Invaders pulled from stock and sold to the CIA front organization "Intermountain Aviation" for use.

http://www.csd.uwo.ca/~pettypi/elevon/baugher_us/a26-27.html

The pilot were, as most are aware, ready to go in on the attack. But were denied the authority.

Some who ignored the order died!"