Evan Marshall
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Posts posted by Evan Marshall
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The particles do appear to have come from a glazer or some other very fast and highly frangible bullet. I frankly do not know "exactly" what was available in 1963.
What has always most seriously bothered me is the Zapruder film's depiction of the IMPACT. It loks as if JFK is being lifted by something with the force of Barry Bond's baseball bat. This was the primary reason that I initially thought that there was "Z" film alteration or excision of frames. As has been pointed out by Dr. Mantik in several of his theses, this is too violent an impact to have been brought about by a bullet impact. I would also like to refer readers to "Bullet Penetration", by Duncan Mac Pherson, and to several FBI studies which I will have to re-find in order to give you the study number.
Bullet impact on animals of the 170 pound variety, are universally explained as having one of these effects: 1) the target is struck and immeiately falls 2) the target is struck and falls within a short time span 3) the target is struck and displays virtually no reaction 4) the target is struck and responds by attacking 5) the target responds and walks or runs away and may later drop as it "bleeds out".
The bullet impacted 170 pound animal is never described, when struck by a rifle or pistol round, as being lifted or projected backward. This is a Hollywood creation.
I feel that no one is "certain" of the "exact" projectile which struck JFK in the head, but it can reasonably be assured that the violent upward, backward and to the left portrayal, that is seen in the Zapruder film (especially when played at full speed), is the result of of something other than a bullet strike. I strongly feel that THIS is what should be given more attention. Most who have knowledgeably studied the head wound are in agreement that it was caused by a "highly" frangible bullet. Even those who would argue the direction in which the bullet or bullets travelled,
do not disagree that it was a highly frangible projectile or projectiles.
Most forum members would have no reason to know this, but the study of ballistics tells us that the force of a bullets impact on a target, cannot be greater than the force of the recoil of the weapon upon the shooter.
Charlie Black
While I agree that people react differently than the movies or TV would indicate I've personally witnessed people struck by high powered rifle rounds and the reaction is immediate and significant. I subdued a man who died later in the lockup-he had been shot 6 times by another officer with a .38 Special revolver-I never saw any blood and he never complained of being shot.
I've personally been present when people had an even greater reaction than JFK and seen countless video's of police sniper shooting where the reaction to being hit by a rifle bullet was severe. I sat on the 1st FBI Wound Ballistics Panel and have written three best sellling books on ballistics and remain convinced that we still don't know very much and I've grown exceedingly weary of self-anointed experts over the yrs-I'm not an expert, just a retired Detroit Sgt who worked both Homicide and SWAT.
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the showers of fragments thru the head looks like xrays I've seen of Glaser Safety Slugs.
The manufacturer's website says that Glaser Safety Slugs have been in use "For over 30 years."
Do you know if this slug, or something comparable, was actually available in 1963?
Jack Cannon, US Army Intelligence-China-and a guy with an interesting back ground played with the load for awhile prior to its introduction on the market. current mfg is an old friend of mine, original loads were developed in Germany. Cannon was a contempary of and knew Mitch Werbell and George Nonte.
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Here is a link showing 2 bullet fragments from Kennedys head.
one thing that two tours in Detroit Homicide taught me, is not to overthink or overcomplicate the issue-the conspirators controlled the autopsy and "investigation" there was no need for Sabots or other overly complex methodology. As the original training sgt for the swat team in Detroit I visited Dealy Plaza while in Dallas for a police training conference-the BD was the last place any sane person would choose and especially not the 6th floor as escape routes and time to flee would be limited.
the showers of fragments thru the head looks like xrays I've seen of Glaser Safety Slugs.
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The extremely large Moorman scan posted by Robin has overwhelmed THE PARTY'S OVER
thread by Chris, making further replies impossible. I have a 19" screen and the Moorman
is twice the size of the screen, blocking all access to the thread. Can anything be done
about this?
Jack
PS...great Moorman image, Robin. The resolution is fantastic. Can you provide the
provenance. It appears to be my scan of the Gordon Smith copy from the original,
but my scan is not nearly that good. Can you give details?
Yes that is a great Moorman image Jack, its the Thompson drum scan you usually call trash. Did you get some new glasses?
I have to credit Lamson this one time IF that is indeed the famed drum scan, because the
quality is very good for a copy of the original print which has the fingerprint. At first glance
it appeared to be the Gordon Smith copy, which is one of the best that I have, made from
the original. As far as I know I have never seen the FULL UNCROPPED drum scan before.
This image, like the Smith image, includes the notches of the 4x5 film holder on the edges.
I did not know the drum scan had that feature. Previously I had only seen cropped images
from the drum scan, and perhaps inferior copies at that. The image posted by Robin is superior
to the Smith copy by about 10 percent in the Dmin/Dmax densitometer range. I compared
the two side by side full screen. The drum scan density is about 10 percent better; this is
mainly seen in the very dark areas such as the wooden fence, the badgeman tree, etc which
are enough lighter on the drum scan to discern detail, but are more blocked up on the Smith
copy. However, neither the drum scan nor the Smith copy, both made from the faded
original with the fingerprint, can match the high quality of the Thompson Number One print
as I have shown many times.
The drumscan exposure was very likely made using an electronic densitometer, which
takes a reading of the lightest area and darkest area and calculates a precise exposure
for minimum and maximum density. When I formerly owned three photostat cameras,
that is how my camera operators turned out high quality halftones...by using the densitometer
to set the camera exposure.
Jack
I may not agree with Jack White on much, but such infantile and assinine remarks prove and solve nothing-as long as our ego's blind our common goals we'll never accomplish a solution to this murder
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SORRY DOUBLE POST SORRY ! ! !
It answers so many questions.....and what I find as most significant is that this occurred only two hours after the shooting, and before this testimony would have been influenced by other testimony, hearsay, or "coercion".
It also further verifies NO HEAD SNAP ! What is seen on the Z film did not happen. Regardless of how many "theoretical experts" testify that this film could not be altered successfully .....IT WAS! These ladies reported JFK's body movement's after being shot exactly as reported by the other Dealey eyewitnesses (which reported on the "afternoon of the assassination").
I know that within minutes I am going to be told that Mary and Jean were as mistaken as all of the other witnesses, because the "Z film shows something quite different"! And since we KNOW that it is IMPOSSIBLE to alter the Z film ....the witnesses are absolutely wrong! It would not matter if there were fifty thousand witnesses, they would all necessarily be wrong.
After all, we know that eyewitnesses are necessarily wrong.....that is why we still do not know who won the Super Bowl !
Charlie Black
Since Posner has argued that original recollections are best, he has a bit of a problem doesn't he?
I think the Z film is flawed simply because we have a faulty chain of evidence and no real reliable record was where its been
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I believe that Ashton Gray should be allowed to pursue any theories he chooses
regarding the motivation for the Watergate affair. I have never believed the
"official story" of Watergate, which I believe was part of its coverup. I believe
that it is even possible that Watergate was somehow related to the JFK affair,
since many of the players were the same. The true story is yet to be told.
So why make personal attacks on Mr. Gray for presenting his theory? Actually
I find his SCIENTOLOGY theory interesting.
In the early 1980s I received a long distance phone call from a man who
claimed to be an attorney for The Church of Scientology, which I had never
heard of. He said they were involved in a lawsuit, and needed an expert
witness regarding THE BACKYARD PHOTOGRAPHS OF LHO, and had learned
that I had testified about them to the HSCA. He asked lots of questions. He
said that I would be qualified as an EXPERT WITNESS to testify, and my
expenses would be paid to travel to (Nevada? or Utah?) to testify and I would
be paid a per diem of $200 for about a week. I told him I would be glad to tell
what I know about the photos. He refused to tell me what the lawsuit was
about. I never heard from him again and passed it off as an odd incident.
Counter Mr. Gray's research if it needs it. But don't attack the man for looking
into SCIENTOLOGY. We might learn something.
Jack
it's been my experience that each country has its share of Turds. As far as the Lone Gunman crowd I believe anger and ridicule never perseuded anyone-do I think there was a conspirarcy-actually I think its obvious, but I prefer a more reasoned approach-My Grandma used to advise me never to argue with a fool because after the 1st 45 seconds, people will not be able to tell you apart.
When I was assigned to Detroit Homicide I began to realize that 99.99% of the population fail to grasp that there are Monsters roaming the earth in human form and they routinely commit unspeakable and unimaginable horrors-perhaps there are people who cannot deal with Govt behavior thats outside their comfort zone and the SBT and LGM are the result.
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Images of the three-page (purported) document are on the Wikipedia page about William J. Casey.
Ashton
Neither of these guys were ever on my Christmas Card list, but there needs to be documentation not just a need to believe. Casey was pretty shrewd-I would be amazed if such sentiments were ever put on paper.
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John...Rich DellaRosa was forced to banish about 8 persons from his JFK forum for constant personal
attacks and lack of meaningful research. I suggest that you contact Rich and get his perspective on
this. Without exception, every "banishee" had one thing in common...all had joined his forum in an
apparent attempt to disrupt the postings of Jack White. Ridicule, name calling, and other ad hominem
attacks made up 99 percent of their postings. After repeated warnings which were not heeded, he
reluctantly banished them. The first to go was a JFK researcher to go was Anthony Marsh, who was
particularly abusive about any of my postings. It became a running "joke" that others violating
forum rules would be banished to the MARSHLAND. The most abusive poster called himself
"BILL MILLER"; he became very abusive and was banished. When I started posting Apollo research,
it attracted a bunch of abusers from a website called BAD ASTRONOMY. The most abusive of these
was CRAIG LAMSON, who offered no research or counter research...just insults...and he was banished.
You may recognize the last two names, who are two of the worst abusers of your hospitality.
Lamson did not show up on your forum till I posted some Apollo research, and then he quickly
was joined by some of his Bad Astronomy mates...Burton, Ulman, Colby and Lewis, and a
few others who are less abusive. All seem to have some hidden agenda of pursing my research,
especially Apollo and 9-11. Burton at least is usually civil and polite, and Ulman and Lewis are
not too bad. The worst abusers are Miller, Lamson, and Colby...all lacking civility and specializing
in name calling; those three are intolerable. Check their postings...you will find that over 90 percent
of all their postings are aimed at taunting me.
I applaud your taking notice of this terrible trend. Anyone making unprovoked personal attacks
should be removed...or at the very least have their postings removed. I would certainly abide
by and favor such enforcement.
Please email Rich DellaRosa and ask his opinions about certain abusive persons. You will find
it revealing and helpful.
Thanks.
Jack
Just for the record, and to clear up the misinformation posted here by White, I was not "banned" from JFKResearch for abusive behavior, DellaRosa "banned" me because he claimed I was cross posting, which was false.
White is also incorrect in his statement that I offered no research to JFKRESEARCH. He knows full well that debunked quite a few of his fradulant claims with solid emperical evidence. He also knows I played a big part in the research that was posted at JFKRESEARCH that trashed his claim of Moorman in the street.
Of course Jack making these false claims is a personal attack....
having written three books on wound ballistics that have generated alot of angry and often vicious attacks I've always wondered why people can't just disagree without being disagreeable.
civility is an often ignored subject around the breakfast table-our 7 kids were taught better and it astounds me when people have to be so obnoxious, demeaning, and insulting in their feeble attempts to "prove" a point. My web page (www.stoppingpower.net) has discussion forums and our rules are clearly posted and I enforce them ruthlessly-unfortunately, it seems the only way to ensure sociable discussion.
most of us can agree that we have not been told the truth re:the politcal assassinations of the 60's and other events-I'm sure I would diagree significantly re: 9/11 with most people here because I had (have) a TS clearance and was aware of much of what was going on that day in federal circles, BUT we can discuss it without rancor or intellecually lazy attacks on people character and motives.
Because I think the death of certain individuals such as Che', etc, were a good thing it does not make me a contract employee of anyone.
maturity can be acquired at any age.
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finally got a copy to replace the one I loaned to a female author along with some tapes of Mark Lane interviews that are not commonly seen. Unfortunately, the person in question could never quite remember to return my property-ever.
it's being published by Mary Ferrell's organization and if you haven't read it you should.
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sort of off-topic but its fascinating how the newspaper photogs take such good photos and the autopsy photog can't seem to get most of them in focus.
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Thank you John
A very informative response.
I hope that this thread will be well read and studied. A majority of forum members do not know, primarily because they have never been involved with bullet wound ballistics, of the various possibilities which bullets of differing sizes and energy might produce within a skull....also that the exact angle of entry plays a significant role in the type of wound which is inflicted.
We are dealing with so many variables, that true experts in this field are stymied. Some of these complex problems include...the number of bullets which struck....the exact strike angle....the size of the bullet.....the force of the bullet...which bullet struck first and where did this bullet strike...the type of bullet / bullets (frangible, semi frangible, jacketed )....and many other unknowns.
We however of course have been forced to work with forged or altered photographs and xrays.....a brain which disappeared (the only brain of a "Head of State" to DISAPPEAR since the beginning of time)...
drastically conflicting testimony of "expert witnesses" at two medical centers...a burned original autopsy report...an un-sectioned brain ( before it later disappeared)....the inability of "medical experts" to trace bullet paths...disappearing bullet fragments etc.
Not to mention an 8mm assassination film that depicts victim movements which medical experts claim are not the result of a bullet strike or strikes.
Involving the wounds to both JFK and JBC, the only CERTAINTIES are that they were both struck by an unknown number of missiles....most striking at unknown angles...of unknown caliber...by an unknown number of shooters...firing from unknown locations
...firing weapons of unknown manufacture...from unknown distances...in an uncertain time frame and an uncertain shot order...from weapons unknown to be or not to be be sound supressed.
We also know that since absolutely NOTHING captured on 8mm film answers any of these questions, it has produced what I believe to be the MOST "unbelievable" of hundreds of very nearly inconceivable COINCIDENCES.
My very personal opinion, and I can't substantiate it, is that any of you who, are and have been, dependent on the Z film to provide you answers that will solve this "mystery?", had best not quit your day jobs.
My apologies for expandng this topic. It was not my original intention. Occasionally, passion overcomes me !
Charlie Black
Charlie Black
an even bigger problem is that we don't know near as much about ballistics as we often think we know. I've seen any number large caliber handguns glance of the skull and ride around the outside under the skin.
evan marshall
www.stoppingpower.net
www.marshallsshootingcenter.com
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It's extremely curious to me
Really. Personally, I couldn't care less why people arrive at the conclusions they do.
I think this is a venue of fact based argument, so such personal speculation appears
counter-productive.
You have a strange manner of introducing these ideas. Always with the sleazy insinuations.that purported proponents of a conspiracy in the murder of John F. Kennedy are yet adament about excluding any and all personnel present at Parkland Hospital, whether employed by the hospital or otherwise, at and around the time that Kennedy was taken there.It there were, in fact, a conspiracy, and if the planned site for a shooting was Dealey Plaza (with a possible back-up plan at the Trade Mart), then these must have been very confident conspirators indeed if they had no insurance installed at the very hospital where the President would be taken in the event of such a premeditated shooting.Ashton Gray
Since you put it that way, we have the basis for a discussion.
JFK came into Parkland with a good part of his brains blown out.
If the staff at Parkland had been prepped to finish the dude off, why
did they nick the right side of the trachea, bruise the tip of the lung,
and produce a tiny fracture of the T1 transverse process?
I mean, the guy is laying there with his brains out and they "finished
him off" with a nick and a bruise and a hairline fracture?
No, the throat wound tells a different story.
Small caliber. Did not exit. Left a field of metallic debris at its
point of deepest penetration.
JFK acted paralyzed in the limo -- simplest explanation -- because he WAS
paralyzed.
All consistent with a Mitch WerBell adaptation of Charles Senseney's
blood soluble paralytic technology.
http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/church/r..._6_Senseney.pdf
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKwerbell.htm
And that is why the plotters felt confident they'd get the job done in Dealey.
while eye and ear witnesses can be problimatical I learned as a Detroit Cop that professionals observations are uniformly valid-the emrgency room personnel at Parkland saw gunshot wounds on a daily basis and unlike the autopsy docs had extensive experience with same.
the poor quality photos has always troubled me-these were professional photographers and I can't believe this was represenative of their work-would like to see the pics from other autopsies they shot-I can't believe the quality was that poor. always thought some amatuer photog shot the photos we have now.
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EM,[quoteI spent the last 5 yrs as a contract instructor for a Fed Agency with direct counter terrorist responsibilities. We will be hit again and it will be massive and at multiple locations.They really don't need another reason to hate us.
Have you read Peter Lance's Tripple Cross or know about Ali Mohamad? BK
no to the 1st and that's a fairly common name
left the Fed's and opened a gunshop and indoor range-approx the same hrs (80-90 a week) but atleast I get to sleep in my own bed and the dog's quit growling at me when I show up.
sorry for the delay in responding. Actually had alot more contact with the FBI during my Detroit years than the time I spent in Arkansas and New Mexico. The Bureau is like any other large organizations-there are some sharp people, some real dunces, and the majority are in the middle. When assigned to Homicide I found their profiling work was generally quite good.
like any large organization, promotion and positive recognition is not always connected to doing a good job-I found while assigned to Homicide that the only thing worse than being wrong was being right when it went against the Bosses wishes or agenda.
the longer I spend as a published writer-hundred's of article and column segments in the law enforcement& firearms press and three controversial books on wound ballistics-the more skeptical I become of the written word. Trying to plow thru two books on the JFK assassination currently and its hard because of the authors ability to write-I think they're both on to something but they drag terribly.
I can't go into details re: 911 because my TS Clearance is still active and will be until late 2008 when it expires, but we were set to run several missions that day and had several in progress. Everything I saw and some of it was at very high levels was shock and surpise-I worked with these folks on an almost daily basis and their responses we're genuine. Saw nothing to indicate govt complicity.
the problem with intell work is similar to doing criminal investigations-the people with intimate knowledge of criminal activity are not going to be a Scoutmaster or Mormon Missionary-you are forced to deal with the realy nasty people. I used to say that a reliable informant was somebody I had in the back of a van with a submachine gun pointed at their head.
I'm not a big, broad conspiracy believer-were JFK, RFK, MLK assassinationed by conspiracies-yes-obvioulsy, but people who keep seeing folks like Morales behind every tree have to understand that I know some of his contemporaries and no one with a direct connect to the Agency would have put themselves in a postion to get grabbed by some over eager cop or caught up in some other bad, dumb luck event.
Hi EM,
Thanks for the comeback, and I agree with your assessment of Feds, with a certain percentage of each category, just like JFK reseachers, some good, some bad, some jerks, but none responsible for our personal and national security, which the Feds are.
While Bill Turner is a hero of mine, and I believe John O'Neill tried to work his way thorugh the compromised beaurcracy of the FBI, there is incompetency on the one hand, neglegance on the other, and criminal neglegance when it comes to the intentional and deliberate actions of certain investigating officers and officials.
I think James Hosty was neglegant for not recognizing LHO as a more significant case than he did, while FBI SA John Zent was criminally neglegant as the "case officer" of Ali Mohamid, who told the RCMP to let him go at the boarder, and failed to report on Ali Mohamid's admission that he was working for al Qaeda in its war against the USA. Looking at Zent's career and his distracting stand up testimony in a triple homicide in which the perpetrator arranged the alibi of having dinner with Zent while the murders were taking place, makes me believe he was just an imbicile. And I'm sure there's a few of those in the FBI.
You can't say the same for others. Like James Fogel and Tommy Corrigan and those in the FBI Special Ops Group who "Got Gotti," who got a tip that PLO terrorists were threatening to blow up casinos in Atlantic City and from July 2 - July 23, 1989, followed, observed and photographed the al Qaeda cell Ali Mohamid trained at Calverton Shooting Range near Brookhaven, on the North Shore of Long Island, New York. While they weren't PLO and didn't try to take out AC, they were invovled in the assassination of Rabbi Kahane and the first WTC bombing.
As one FBI agent put it, "Understand what this means. You have an al Qaeda spy who's now a US citizen on active duty in the US Army, and he brings along a video paid for by the US government to train Green Beret officers and he's ussing it to help train Islamic terrorists so they can turn their guns on us..."
A year later, after one of those trained by Ali Mohamid at Calverton, assassinated Kahane, the FBI and NYPD searched Nosair the assassin's New Jersey apartment and discovered two associates, US Army Special Ops Training Manuals and videos from Fort Bragg that should have led to Ali Mohamid, and 47 boxes of additional evidence. Among the additional evidence was a Federal Firearms License that led to brothers Daniel B. and Ray Murteza, Waterbury, Connecticut gun dealers.
Ray, a former Waterbury police officer and Albanian Muslim, at first denied but later conceeded he sold the .357 mag used to kill Kahane, and practiced firing with Nosair at the High Rock firing range in Naugatuck, Connecticut. This led to the realization that there was a "much broader papperon of paramilitary training by Islamics,...but afer the NYPD declared the Kahane murder a 'lone-gunman' shooting, the FBI apparently terminated the investigation."
Then there was the bad FBI supervisor, Lindley DeVeccio, who helped arrange for mob murders so his confidential informant could be made boss of Columbo mob family, and is now under indictment for four homicides, and could have been brought down back in 1976 for illigally selling handguns in Pennsylvania. DeVeccio wasn't charged by then NY DA Rudy Giuliani because, "the guy was a cop."
Somewhere along the line, these investigations nail the bad guys, then let them off the hook so they can assassinate a Rabbi, blow up the WTC garage and set up 9/11, as if they all took us by surprise.
As a former big city police officer, official trainer and operator of a target range, do you think these guys are suspicious?
And how do we characterize the investigators, who failed to not only connect the dots, but as Peter Lance says, "disconnected them" after the fact.
BK
We're in the middle of some delicte business negotiations here at the moment so I can only give this a superifical pass, but remember all of us are human and and capable of short sightness and preconceived notions. I was and am troubled by missed clues in the Oke City Affair and the rush to execute Timmy McVay. The whole Waco things sits badly too.
What's going on now is prep time for another 9/11 and we're going to lose people-alot I'm afraid. One of the assignments I had was to review the Al Quada Training Tapes one of our guys had liberated while serving with Delta in Tora Bora. LE and Govt need to rethink their approach and I'm afraid we'll be confronted by situations where we have to choose between casualities and MASSIVE CASUALTIES. Hope I'm wrong but too many buds on the black side of Spec Ops are telling me they're hearing the same thing. Columbine should have taught that containment is no longer a valid tactic and the Beslan School should have been a case of an rapid breach, and arrest or killing of those holding innocent children.
There is also the fact that some people cannot deal with the horrible reality of Terrorist Behavior and want to not have to think of such horrors. We need alot more accountability AND we have a continued need for tough guys who will stand on the sharp end of the stick and protect us.
There are some folks who are beyond redemption and just need to be killed, and yes I spend every Sunday at the local Mormon Church. I see no conflict in loving God and directly confronting evil.
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I got assigned a number of homicides where very highly eudcated folks thought they committed the perfect murder-most are in a MI prison for life, no parole. The perfect murder would be one that the wrong person was convinced of and it was smugly considered closed.
I disagree. The perfect murder is where the authorities do not realise that a murder has been committed. I have posted the solution to my murder mystery. Do you think, given the evidence available, that you would have thought that Wallace was murdered?
you're welcome to disagree, but if its not closed as a Homicide, there's always the potential for re-examination. A closed case is a whole other matter-haven't read it since real murders are rarely as tidy as those scenarios we imagine or create
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I thought we could have another Xmas Party this year. Please contribute to existing threads or start new ones.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showforum=208
I have decided to add a "murder mystery puzzle" that are usually very popular at this time of year at parties. My one is original and comes from my research into the way witnesses were murdered following the assassination of JFK.
I got assigned a number of homicides where very highly eudcated folks thought they committed the perfect murder-most are in a MI prison for life, no parole. The perfect murder would be one that the wrong person was convinced of and it was smugly considered closed.
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EM,[quoteI spent the last 5 yrs as a contract instructor for a Fed Agency with direct counter terrorist responsibilities. We will be hit again and it will be massive and at multiple locations.They really don't need another reason to hate us.
Have you read Peter Lance's Tripple Cross or know about Ali Mohamad? BK
no to the 1st and that's a fairly common name
left the Fed's and opened a gunshop and indoor range-approx the same hrs (80-90 a week) but atleast I get to sleep in my own bed and the dog's quit growling at me when I show up.
Well EM,
I live near Ft. Dix in Jersey and can hear the reservists on the range on the other side of the lake. My dad was Det Sgt./ Lt. PD Camden - (No. 1 Most Dangerous City in USA - 2 years in a row), worse than Detroit. Dix also has training pods for urban warfare and local Pineys are hired to play arabs.
Anyway, as PDS notes in his Dallas COPA talk - edited transcript to be posted shortly - Lance details the double-tripple agent career of Ali Mohamad - whose Egyptian Army unit was involved in the assassnation of Sadat. Ali Mo was trained at Ft. Bragg, returned to Egypt and was recruited by al Qaeda to come to USA as infiltrator and spy. He married Calf. women he met on flight over, enlisted in Army, became Sgt. and assigned to Special Ops training at Ft. Bragg. On leave he traveled to Brooklyn NY where he trained first al Qaeda cell in USA out of Blind Sheik's mosque in rifle, pistol and AK47, practicing in an open field on Long Island, as filmed by FBI.
One of Ali Mohamad's rifle range students assassinated Jewish rabbi Kahane, and when police went to his apartment in Jersey, they found USA Special Ops manuals that were traced to Ali Mo, who went on to scout Kenya embassy bombing sites and relocated OBL from Sudan to Afghanistan. He was an al Qaeda agent provatour and trainer while having an inept FBI "handler" and CIA guardians.
PDS compares him with similar attributes of LHO.
Like the fate of most serial killers, if standard police investigative techniques were followed and the Special Ops manuals found in the assassin's apartment were traced to Ali Mo at Ft. Bragg, the terrorist cell reponsible for the first WTC attack and 9/11 could have been exposed years earlier. And they would have been by honest cops not interfered with by inept FBI agents and CIA case officers who gave Ali Mo a pass.
While both Ali Mo and the Blind Sheik are in custody, their damage is done; both nurtured by US intelligence (Blind Sheik on CIA Passport), and not by OBM.
As a law enforcement officer who has worked with the feds, are the FBI just inept or are they part of the program? Thanks.
BK
sorry for the delay in responding. Actually had alot more contact with the FBI during my Detroit years than the time I spent in Arkansas and New Mexico. The Bureau is like any other large organizations-there are some sharp people, some real dunces, and the majority are in the middle. When assigned to Homicide I found their profiling work was generally quite good.
like any large organization, promotion and positive recognition is not always connected to doing a good job-I found while assigned to Homicide that the only thing worse than being wrong was being right when it went against the Bosses wishes or agenda.
the longer I spend as a published writer-hundred's of article and column segments in the law enforcement& firearms press and three controversial books on wound ballistics-the more skeptical I become of the written word. Trying to plow thru two books on the JFK assassination currently and its hard because of the authors ability to write-I think they're both on to something but they drag terribly.
I can't go into details re: 911 because my TS Clearance is still active and will be until late 2008 when it expires, but we were set to run several missions that day and had several in progress. Everything I saw and some of it was at very high levels was shock and surpise-I worked with these folks on an almost daily basis and their responses we're genuine. Saw nothing to indicate govt complicity.
the problem with intell work is similar to doing criminal investigations-the people with intimate knowledge of criminal activity are not going to be a Scoutmaster or Mormon Missionary-you are forced to deal with the realy nasty people. I used to say that a reliable informant was somebody I had in the back of a van with a submachine gun pointed at their head.
I'm not a big, broad conspiracy believer-were JFK, RFK, MLK assassinationed by conspiracies-yes-obvioulsy, but people who keep seeing folks like Morales behind every tree have to understand that I know some of his contemporaries and no one with a direct connect to the Agency would have put themselves in a postion to get grabbed by some over eager cop or caught up in some other bad, dumb luck event.
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Well, According to BBC, the first and so far only news service to cover the story of the Bulgarian nurses and Palestine doctor, they have been sentenced to death.
So much for my expectation that they would be exonerated and possibly freed, setting off riots and acts of terrorism.
The Blind Sheik is still on the roof.
BK
I spent the last 5 yrs as a contract instructor for a Fed Agency with direct counter terrorist responsibilities. We will be hit again and it will be massive and at multiple locations.
They really don't need another reason to hate us.
EM,
Have you read Peter Lance's Tripple Cross or know about Ali Mohamad?
BK
no to the 1st and that's a fairly common name
left the Fed's and opened a gunshop and indoor range-approx the same hrs (80-90 a week) but atleast I get to sleep in my own bed and the dog's quit growling at me when I show up.
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Well, According to BBC, the first and so far only news service to cover the story of the Bulgarian nurses and Palestine doctor, they have been sentenced to death.
So much for my expectation that they would be exonerated and possibly freed, setting off riots and acts of terrorism.
The Blind Sheik is still on the roof.
BK
I spent the last 5 yrs as a contract instructor for a Fed Agency with direct counter terrorist responsibilities. We will be hit again and it will be massive and at multiple locations.
They really don't need another reason to hate us.
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Well, According to BBC, the first and so far only news service to cover the story of the Bulgarian nurses and Palestine doctor, they have been sentenced to death.
So much for my expectation that they would be exonerated and possibly freed, setting off riots and acts of terrorism.
The Blind Sheik is still on the roof.
BK
I spent the last 5 yrs as a contract instructor for a Fed Agency with direct counter terrorist responsibilities. We will be hit again and it will be massive and at multiple locations.
They really don't need another reason to hate us.
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We do now have something concrete as to when Cuban intelligence became aware of and decided to move against Morales. That is covered in the new edition and the action appears to have been triggered by their finding Morales name on a list of secret police badges issued by Batista. Based on that they issued an arrest warrant to the American Embassy, the Embassy pushed back but that was pretty much the end of Morales in Cuba and it appears that he may have had to exit Cuba shortly thereafter.....this detail can be seen in the new "Zamka" document provided for Chapter 8 on the book WEB site.
While I believe both Morales and Phillipa where involved along with Mitch Webell, Jack Cannon, and some others-I can't believe that anyone with direct ties to the Agency would have participated in such a way to tie themselves directly to the event. If some one picked up Oswald they were a cut-out and probablly didn't know who they were really working for.
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Tom
You are absolutely right concerning the amount of time requird to for the "first shot".....this shot was both the closest and allowed the most time for a strike ..... however the WC concluded that this shot missed....I don't agree with that either.
Before you expain it to me again, I am familiar with your shooting theory, but I just don't buy it.
I feel that "hit" #1 was to the throat and fired from the front.....hit #2 was to the back...followed in quick succession by a hit to the head, a hit to Connally, and most likely another hit to the head. Interspersed were misses from possibly both directions along with probably another Connally strike. I feel that there most likely four separate hits to JFK, 2 hits to Connally and at least two misses.
My "guess" as to shooters locations is TSBD, Dal Tex, North knoll and South knoll. I feel that the shots fired from the TSBD were primarily diversionary, but that one of these may have struck and "partially penetrated" JFK's back.
I don't believe that LHO "touched" a rifle on that date. I believe that the MC in question was purchased from Oswald by a conspirator, well in advance of 11/22.
As I stated earlier, you need not re-explain to me Your theory. I am familiar with it, but am simply not in agreement !
Charlie Black
pretty easy to insult and defame the dead-Carlos Hathcock was not only a superb sniper but a good guy and implying that he was too stupid understand the situation is intellecually dishonest and morally lazy
You are absolutely right concerning the amount of time requird to for the "first shot".....this shot was both the closest and allowed the most time for a strike ..... however the WC concluded that this shot missed....I don't agree with that either.
Nope!
The WC "talked in tongues"/spoke in circles, etc as regards THE SHOT THAT MISSED.
They never out and out claimed exactly which shot it was, they merely claimed that Z313 was most likely/probably the last shot.
It was Posner who added to the fairy tale that it was the first shot, and supported this with the tree limb strike/glance/lost bullet, etc.
Despite what Tague had to say about when he received his scratch on the face, as well as all of the eyewitness accounts as to JFK reacting to the first shot.
Before you expain it to me again, I am familiar with your shooting theory, but I just don't buy it.
It was not offered for "sale".
Body Kidnappings and multiple assassin theories are for sale.
Truth & facts are free for those who know how to evaluate them.
P.S. Exactly why do you think the WC knew that they could get away with this/their version.
I feel that "hit" #1 was to the throat and fired from the front.....hit #2 was to the back...followed in quick succession by a hit to the head, a hit to Connally, and most likely another hit to the head. Interspersed were misses from possibly both directions along with probably another Connally strike. I feel that there most likely four separate hits to JFK, 2 hits to Connally and at least two misses.
Personally, I "feel" quite old, and have little time for those who evaluate factual evidence by what they "feel".
Hope that you have another 40+ or so years in which to continue to be lost in this subject.
My "guess" as to shooters locations is TSBD, Dal Tex, North knoll and South knoll. I feel that the shots fired from the TSBD were primarily diversionary, but that one of these may have struck and "partially penetrated" JFK's back
My "guess" would be that you have done little if any research into the subject matter, and therefore are attempting to pass a factual test with "guess"ing.
I don't believe that LHO "touched" a rifle on that date. I believe that the MC in question was purchased from Oswald by a conspirator, well in advance of 11/22.
As I stated earlier, you need not re-explain to me Your theory. I am familiar with it, but am simply not in agreement !
Then you most assuredly are not "one" of those few here who recognize factual evidence and thereafter understand the principals of verification of same.
P.S. Why not take a look at the evidence from Parkland which initially stated that JFK had a "fragment" wound of the anterior neck.
Or even better yet, call Dr. Perry and have him explain the mistake/error to you.
Or, just continue to "guess".
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Bell Frame:
I'm always amused when people who've never been a sniper talk about how easy the shot was-shooting at a paper target is one thing-shooting at another human is another matter-I've done it and its neither easy or without a cost.
www.stoppingpower.net
I'm always amused when people who've never been a sniper talk about how easy the shot was-
I'm always amused when people claim that "Sniper" training is required in order to hit an extremely slow moving target at a range of 68 yards (204 feet) or less.
Most 12 to 13 year old's down here in S. Mississippi can accomplish that, and do, each time that dear season opens.
P.S. It cost LHO his life!
P.P.S. Shortest distance which LHO qualilfied at in the USMC was 200 yards, of which he shot in the UPPER EXPERT range of qualification.
shooting at a known distance at a stationary target is nothing like shooting at a target that's moving away from you-there's no indication Oswald had ever shot a rifle at a human target in the past-how come Carlos Hathcock couldn't do it? How come every body talks about how easy it is-talk is easy-being on the rifle when its for real isn't.
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Bell Frame:
I'm always amused when people who've never been a sniper talk about how easy the shot was-shooting at a paper target is one thing-shooting at another human is another matter-I've done it and its neither easy or without a cost.
www.stoppingpower.net
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You can go to the following link for Palamara's discussion of this including references. At the link scroll down to "Security Stripping #2." See also "Security Stripping #3," regarding the absence of the usual press truck in front of the limo. Apparently this press truck and not motorcycles would have been directly in front of the limo.
See also "Security Stripping #4," which involved a DPD car that was to be directly behind the limo, and was removed by the SS.
let's not make it unworkable-there is not a need to have 40 SS agents compromised. Let's remember none of them had been fired on before and unfortunately assignments were often granted by senority and a younger man behind the wheel might have made all the difference. do I believe there was some SS complicity-yes, but it only required one or two not a legion.
I've worked a number of protective details and done alot of executive protection training-it would take a very few members of a protective detail to lose a principal.
IMPOSSIBLE
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted · Edited by Evan Marshall
it was believed because we believed in Govt-I actually thought Bobby was the only Kennedy brother ruthless enough to be a good President.