Dave Greer

Could you give a link to where that was made? I'd never heard of this before. Thanks. Sure I will be happy to .... I need to find the two YouTube videos where Plait made this offer and greenmagoos supplied the evidence he was asking for. I will post them here as soon as I track them down . It was from an interview with Joe Rogan on the Penn and Teller radio show. You and Greenmagoos made a video of it which is on Youtube, watch from around 8:10. Here's a transcript:- I think the $1,000,000 joke bet Plait had with Rogan is quite safe! Unless anyone has any footage of astronauts making these huge 16-20 foot leaps of distance, not height as Rogan specified. The audio was dubbed over video footage taken at the end of Apollo 16 when the astronauts did jump approx 4 feet into the air, which is nowhere near Rogan's claim that they jumped 16-20 feet (he later said "it might not be twenty feet", but didn't specifiy how far), and that the jump wasn't "into the air" (i.e. vertically), but "distance" (i.e. horzontally). Do you agree that Plait offered a million dollars for video of an astronaut jumping twenty feet, as transcribed above and in the Youtube video you were involved in making? Do you also agree that the video of the jump in question is nowhere near twenty feet? Do you therefore agree that Greenmagoos is not owed $1,000,000 by Plait (despite the fact that it was obviously said as a joke to demonstrate how confident he was that no such footage existed - which it doesn't)?

Definition of crackpot:- "Pejoratively, the term Crackpot is used against a person, subjectively also called a crank, who writes or speaks in an authoritative fashion about a particular subject, often in science or mathematics, but is alleged to have false or even ludicrous beliefs." Rene is selling a mathematical "proof" on his website that the accepted value of Pi isn't what it's claimed to be. "12 years ago Dan W. Gaddy did just that and in doing so, found that PI does not equal 3.1415926 but instead it equals 3.146264 . The 12 page pamphlet ($6.00) shows Gaddy's method." No doubt this will come as something as a surprise to the millions of mathematicians and physicists who've been using the accepted value of pi for centuries. Duane, the guy's a crackpot. A loveable, eccentric crackpot maybe, without whom the world would be a less colourful place: but a crackpot nonetheless.

And that coming from a blind fool who actually believes THIS IMAGE is really the REFLECTION OF AN ASTRONAUT and a "SMUDGE " !!! ROTFLMAO is right ! Not a problem Duane or Jack (this looks like one of Jack's studies). The crop is taken from AS17-134-20387 You can find a high-resolution version of the image here. Or download an ultra-high resolution version from the Gateway To Astronaut Photography of Earth. Here's a GIF showing what the various features are. It's quite large at around 2.5 MB so I'll link it instead of pasting the image itself. http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r81/hea...7/a17-visor.gif

My continuing research into this bizarre relationship between hamsters and chemtrails has unearthed some more damning evidence. I was hosting an outdoor barbecue "chez Greer" (we're bred hard oop here in the north of England, and don't let things like seasonal inclement weather stand between us and a good time. Although I draw the line at the traditional Boxing Day dip in the North Sea. One and only time I did that, the family jewels went missing for over a month). Up in the sky there were several aircraft, spewing chemtrails from their engines. After a few minutes the chemtrails started drifting downwards - this is PROOF that they could not be water vapour, since the carbonised state of the sausages on the BBQ was ample proof of the amount of heat, ergo hot air, being produced, which would have created considerable thermals. These chemtrails must therefore have consisted of complex molecules and heavy metals. As they descended toward "Chez Greer", soon to be renamed "Dun-roaming" (I was even considering "Dun-debunkin'", but NASA pensions aren't all they're cracked up to be), the chemtrails began sublimating and coalescing into strange animal-like forms. I couldn't spot Mr Floppy the hamster, but nevertheless there was a veritable menagerie, as witnessed by the images below. Are chemtrails and the spirits of dead animals linked in a bizarre symbiotic relationship? Is Mr Floppy the hamster circulating our planet's eco-sphere in the shape of a coalesced chemtrail cloud? Who put the ram in the ram-a-lang-a-ding-dong? Does anybody care?

Never trust electronic machines. (I should know, I work in IT). Especially when it comes to something as important as our basic democratic right - having our votes counted, and having our votes count. I say use a good old-fashioned pencil tick on a piece of paper, dropped into a box, and counted by a genuine, bona fide person. The system may be fallible, but there's less chance not only of large-scale fraud, but also the accusation of large-scale fraud, which is almost as damaging.

I've heard of trainspotting, but apparently it's possible to go contrail spotting too. Here's a handy cut out and keep guide to their formation. http://asd-www.larc.nasa.gov/GLOBE/resourc...ion_English.jpg

Jack It's not just water vapour in the exhaust, it's also water in the atmosphere that condenses in the hot stream of gases. Having said that, water is indeed one of the primary products produced when hydrocarbons are burnt in air. More info:- http://cimss.ssec.wisc.edu/wxwise/class/contrail.html "Contrails form when hot humid air from jet exhaust mixes with environmental air of low vapor pressure and low temperature." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contrail "Contrails or vapor trails are condensation trails and artificial cirrus clouds made by the exhaust of aircraft engines or wingtip vortices which precipitate a stream of tiny ice crystals in moist, frigid upper air. " http://asd-www.larc.nasa.gov/GLOBE/science.html "Contrails are clouds formed when water vapor condenses and freezes around small particles (aerosols) that exist in aircraft exhaust. Some of that water vapor comes from the air around the plane; and, some is added by the exhaust of the aircraft. The exhaust of an aircraft contains both gas (vapor) and solid particles. Both of these are important in the formation of contrails. Some elements of the exhaust gasses are not involved in contrail formation but do constitute air pollution. Emissions include carbon dioxide, water vapor, nitrogen oxides (NOx), carbon monoxide, hydrocarbons such as methane, sulfates (SOx), and soot and metal particles. "

The question that everyone seems to be avoiding, is why did Mr Turner expose his hamster to the known dangers associated with chemtrails? Has he explained his actions to the Great Yarmouth division of the RSPCA? Despite the disappearance of one Mr Floppy, he's still quite content for his poor cat Tiddles to casually lick clean her feline tea-towel holder while lying prostrate in his back yard, oblivious to the terrifying danger lurking just a few miles above her furry little head. It's time for me to come clean. Soon to be revealed on Dragon's Den, my new invention for hamster lovers everywhere: the Hamster Perambulator, or 'AmsterPram, to use its registered trade name. Hamster owners the length and breadth of the country wil be flocking to buy them once they're in full production - this is of course a prototype. And as we all know, every prototype form of transport needs a test-pilot. I happenstanced upon the little fellow in the image as I trawled the crack-dens of Yarmouth (I've obviously only just found out that he's called Mr Floppy). I'm happy to report that Mr Floppy is doing very well: as you can see he is amply protected from sublimating chemtrail vapours. He seems to enjoy his new little runabout, though he is struggling with corners, something that will no doubt be ironed out once we go into full production. Of course, if the investors at Dragon's Den can't see the potential in my invention, I'll be forced to take more extreme measures to raise the necessary fundage to get the 'AmsterPram into full production. So, Mr Turner, time to prize open your wallet and get generous with your hard-earned, otherwise Mr Floppy will soon be turning into Mr Stiffy.

Duane See my earlier post - here's the image again. Quite clearly there are minor variations in terrain, though it does appear to be essentially flat, as described by Arstrong. No steep slopes, no rolling hills. Essentially flat, with a smattering of craters, slight depressions, undulations, whatever you want to call them. Let's get away from an argument of semantics, and discuss the evidence itself. You claim there is a problem with the shadows in the DAC footage, namely that the shadow lengths aren't compatible with a single light source. Leaving alone the reality that if there were two light sources each astronaut would cast two shadows, you yourself said you agreed that shadows being cast onto a slope would change the length of the shadows. We have direct evidence both from the DAC footage and the Hasselblad images that the flag shadow does fall on a slight slope (the part nearest the flagpole is on a slight downslope, the part furthest away is on an upslope). Can you state whether you agree or disagree with that, rather than getting bogged down in a discussion about what Armstrong meant by "essentially flat"?

Not so Duane. Look at this still taken from the DAC footage, and the zoomed insert beneath. Quite clearly, the terrain where the flag shadow falls is not 100% flat or horizontal. Slanted surface proven in both the photographicand film record. Will you now withdraw the claim? No anomaly here either. The Apollo 11 landing site was essentially flat: that doesn't preclude minor localised variations in the terrain.

Then you must have evidence to back the claim up. Where does anyone make the claim that the image was genuine? Edition and page number please?

Firstly, the astronaut's shadow is BEHIND him. Secondly, the sun angle is so high that his knee's shadow wouldn't appear in the photo unless he took the camera off the chest-plate and pointed it downward (providing he turned round so his back was to the sun). Thirdly, you can't even make out the shadow of his knees since his legs are in the way!

Let's look at another of the claims in the initial post. 1. Their "boots" were actually overshoes, and weren't part of the pressure suit. No problem removing them. 2. They plugged their suits into the LMs oxygen supply, so had no more need for the PLSS. 3. They re-opened the hatch after the LM had been depressurised, and dumped the rubbish and both PLSS. 4. They closed the hatch and re-pressurised. Agree or disagree that this particular claim has been debunked?

Personally I think that when used such images should clearly state "Image created for illustration purposes only" or words to that effect, so that mis-understandings like this don't occur. (This is more important than ever these days, where image manipulation is so much easier and widespread with modenr software.) Maybe the editor responsible for later editions of the book felt the same and decided to use a genuine Apollo 11 image rather than the image in question?

I skipped straight to the section you got your quote from, so my opinion wasn't formed in the context of the whole article. I don't have time to read it all at the moment, but I've gone back and read some of it from the beginning, and if true it makes uncomfortable reading. I'll do some more research on this one. Does the word TRANQUILITY mean anything to you ?... The drug used was called TRANQUILITY ..."'TRANQUILITY BASE HERE . THE EAGLE HAS LANDED ." ... You figure it out , if you're capable of doing so . Maybe Armstrong chose to call it Tranquility Base because he landed in the Sea of Tranquility? Duane, if what the author says in this article is true, then I agree it is indeed a monstrous crime against humanity, and those responsible should be held to account. However, I remain very skeptical about the link you've made with Apollo, which seems to be based on drug being called the same name as the lunar sea where Apollo 11 landed, along with your interpretation of astronaut behaviour. Having said that, I can see why someone in your position, who has convinced themselves that Apollo was faked, would then make the link between the two - even though I personally find the case you've made unconvincing.

Duane You don't need a pressurised spacesuit to test Jack's claims. And I'm sure you're capable of holding a camera steady.

Duane You can't possibly have read the article otherwise you wouldn't have made that claim. Here's a quote from the letter from Oberg. Pay particular attention to my bolding. "You had written: “I will bet you $10,000 that I can produce these photos in situ in an 8 page photo section (16) photos between pages 238 & 239. But maybe I not only lie, cheat and steal but I bluff too.” There is no need for such a bet because I can verify your statement about finding the images. The very first picture in the Ballantine photo insert is an EVA suit against a complete black background. It has no caption and no description. 4 pages later there is a very similar picture, but only the bottom is black and above him you can see the zero G airplane interior. The caption of this one is "The zero-G airplane - sickening". The suit looks exactly the same. The first image is unquestionably derived from the second image." Oberg agrees with Rene that the image in question was NOT taken onboard Gemini X in earth orbit. It was doctored from the training image. I watched both videos. At no point did Jarrah show where in the book it is claimed by NASA, Collins or anyone else that the image was a genuine one taken on Gemini X. If he did, I miised it - could you point out the timestamp? He's quite clearly constructed a strawman argument, namely that Oberg/NASA/Collins/ are denying that the image was created using the training photo. That argument is plainly false - see the emboldened quotes above. Neither Rene nor Jarrah White bothered to address the question of where it is claimed "Carrying The Fire" that the image in question is genuine. Perhaps you could take up that challenge? Please show the quote from any edition of "Carrying The Fire" where it is stated that this is an official Gemini image of Collins during an EVA. If such a quote exists, then it's clearly misleading, albeit I suspect unintenioanlly so (I don't think anyone is seriously claiming that the Gemini programme was faked!)

I provided direct quotes from it. DOn't blame me if you don't like your own sources! NASAs involvement proven by what? Your article? Do I take it that inter-stellar and pan-dimensional travel is also proven on the strength of this article? You believe all this on the strength of this article? I've no idea if what you've said about the Monarch programme is right or not, but I'd want a LOT more evidence than this article. Can you advise why I should give this single paragraph any credence? And if it was true, why is it proof that Apollo was faked? This behaviour actually contradicts the effects that the drugs you described are supposed to induce! I thought the drug created exactly the right mind-set required, and total compliance? But if as you claim they were under the influence of those drugs, surely they would be walking on air, peacefully compliant, not guilty? Please explain how any of this is indicative that they took the drugs you claim? Apollo was faked, and they went to the moon using advanced stealth technology. If this article stated there were invisible pink unicorns living at the bottom of your garden would you believe that too?

Interesting "article"! Would make a good plot for a sci-fi series. Here's another exceprt from the same article:- "I was there that fateful day in 1943 when a hole was ripped in the fabric of time through what later became known as the Philadelphia Experiment. All those fine boys vanished along with their ship in a bizarre twist of events that parallels the Atlantis disappearances. A vortex was created in an effort to slip dimensions and become invisible to the enemy. It was a success beyond the highest expectations and launched us all info universal travel. It is no wonder at all that we have had a man on the moon. Traveling to distant planets and galaxies is Mickey Mouse stuff in comparison to the high tech wizardry of trans-dimensional travel. Trans-dimensional travel circumvents all measures of time, including distance and speed. When the fabric of time was torn, we opened ourselves up to intergalactic travel -- both in and out of this dimension -- and in and out of the future, as well as the past. We can alter the course of history by traveling back in time to alter events, or we can blast off into the future and gain wisdom and knowledge of events yet to come. We can control the future by controlling the past." According to your article, man landed on the moon! Mind you, it also states that travel to other galaxies is Mickey Mouse stuff, and that time travel and inter-dimensional travel is not only possible, but reality - so I wouldn't take this artcile as evidence or proof of anything other than the author's imagination. Good read though!

Right you are ... And the Apollo Simulation Program was a tomato , not a potato ... and one day the entire world will be forced to accept that sad fact ... Even if you and the rest of the gang at Baut , clavius and the UM can't . Duane old boy If ever the day comes to pass that Apollo is revealed to have been a sham, I'll be the first to admit my error. I'll even stand you a pint of Guinness.

Is it possible that contrails might have a seeding effect on the atmosphere in certain conditions, in the same way that dropping a grain of salt into a super-cooled container of water will cause it to freeze solid? Just speculation on my part. What I would question is whether this is the result of "Operation Parasol", a government programme so super secret that Jack is able to post about it quite freely on this forum. Can I ask for sources relating to this programme? The only one I could find related to the Canadian Red Cross. What more information do you have about this programme Jack? I did manage to dig out Dr Teller's white paper on the subject of global warming and the use of aerosols in the atmosphere to mitigate it. GLOBAL WARMING AND ICE AGES: I. Prospects For Physics-Based Modulation Of Global Change*. Edit to add: If it is indeed possible to use jet aircraft to mitigate the effects of global warming, can we expect the British Government to reduce airport tax? Maybe they should be encouraging people to fly rather than discouraging them? Perhaps an incentive scheme whereby the Government pay a percentage of the ticket price?

Wot no prizes? I think the best hat at least deserves one. Maybe you and Mr Ashton could share it? It also cunningly doubles up as a "mind-transference" device, should you ever be needy of such a contraption.

For someone who professes to be a Christian, I find it puzzling that you think someone hearing the voice of God should be classed delusional or programmed. I can't really offer you any other advice than this: if you seriously believe that, why not discuss it with the pastor at your Church? I think this is more a theological issue than anything else. Maybe he did hear the voice of God. Maybe he imagined he heard the voice of God. Maybe has was speaking metaphorically. Maybe he was stark raving bonkers. Maybe he was having a religious experience. (I know someone who made a pilgrimage to Lourdes and claimed to have seen a vision of the Virgin Mary. Is she programmed? Brainwashed? Highly delusional? Undergoing a religious experience?) None of those answers suggest that the Apollo programme was faked. It's all pure supposition, we can never know, even if he was still around to ask. What's normal about going to the moon? What is normal behaviour for someone who goes to the moon? Can you even being to imagine the effect it would have on your life, and your perceptions of humanity and our place in the grand scheme of things? Do you know for sure exaclty how you'd react if you went to the moon and years later some people were accused you of being a fraud and a xxxx? Take any group of people who've shared the same or similar experiences. Interview them at various times of their lives over a period of forty years, until they're pushing 80 years of age. Would you expect no contradictions at all? They avoided some nutter who among other things lied his way into their homes, called them liars and cowards, thrust a Bible under their noses, demanded they swear to God almighty that they went to the moon. One was angry enough to give him a slap. Another kicked his sorry ass out of his house. Others tried to avoid him. Two of them actually called his bluff and DID swear on the Bible that they went to the moon (did he bother sending that money off to charity as he promised?) How do you rationalise what behaviour mode is appropriate for a lunar astronaut, and what isn't? Looked guilty? Purely subjective and not really worth debating the point. You say tomato, I say potato.

Sorry, I thought it was one of your jokes again. Seriously! More to the point, how could any objective person possibly consider this evidence of a faked lunar landing? You can't be serious? See above. Duane, I'm completely missing the point of this fine piece of detective work. They passed a camera to each other. So what? Maybe one of them hadn't attached his camera to his chest plate yet? Maybe they wanted all the "flag photos" on one film roll? Maybe one of the cameras had failed? Or maybe it was a subtle whistle-blowing clue ("Hehe, this'll fool 'em. The old single-camera swictheroo. Never fails. People the world over will KNOW we faked the missions when they spot this one.") As for his stance, he's bending his knees slightly. Seriously people, he's BENDING HIS KNEES. Tell the world! Duane, please listen to yourself. This latest "proof" is embarrassing. If you're not careful David C will be labelling you as a plant as well as Jack!

I couldn't agree with you more , Dave . Excellent! At last you're starting to use your noggin! Makes you wonder why every magazine is available online at resolutions around 2000x2400 (with minor processing to improve contrast for viewing online), and most Hasselblad magazines are available at 4400x4000 resolution as direct scans of the film rolls with no post-processing. All paid for by our mutual friend, the good ol' US taxpayer. Not to mention the availability of printed 8"x10" glossies since 1969 (you'll have to fork out a little bit of your own hard-earned dollars for these I'm afraid!) That's the truth of the subject, so no need to cast aspersions on my ocular acuity old bean! The "lens flare" excuse was the first thing they taught me at shill school! I believe this has been addressed before in relation to some other Apollo 14 images? Either you understand the concept that moon dust is capable of sticking to the camera lens, and that when sunlight hits this dust it causes a flare that reduces contrast in that part of the image, or you don't. Once you understand that concept, a genuine researcher interested in investigating the authenticity of the image would need to demonstrate why that doesn't apply to this image. Get cracking young man! Levels adjusted slightly to make lightened zone more visible.