Ed LeDoux

The following are three newspoaper stories of the crash of the U-2 piloted by Capt Joe Hyde as transmitted via the wire service's AP & UPI.

DMN 11-21-1963

U-2 Plane Reported in Crash

KEY WEST, Fla - (UPI)

A U-2 "spy" plane believed to be on a reconnaissance mission over Communist Cuba crashed Wednesday in the Gulf of Mexico Wednesday, 40 miles northwest of here. Military sources in Washington said the U-2 pilot did not radio any indication of trouble before the crash and the plane presumably went down due to mechanical trouble. However they said the crash could have been the result of a Cuban attack.

The pilot of the U-2 was identified as Capt. Joe E. Hyde Jr., 33 of La Grange, Ga

DMN 11-22-1963

Wreckage of Pilotless U-2 Located

KEY WEST, Fla - (AP) The wreck of a U-2 plane was found Thursday on the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico. But its cockpit was empty, holding out hope that its pilot Capt. Joe G. Hyde Jr., might have survived the crash.

Presumably returning from a mission over Fidel Castro's Communist Cuba, the high flying reconnaissance aircraft suddenly vanished from radar scopes at 10:32 AM. Wednesday, some 40 miles northwest of Key West and 188 miles north of the Cuban coast. It was there that debris was sighted Thursday morning by the searching Coast Guard cutter Nemesis. By 11:30 A.M. divers from the Navy salvage vessels Petrel and Shrike were on the wreckage in 100 foot-deep water and had confirmed that the pilot was not in the cockpit. At La Grange, Ga., Hyde's home his mother clung desperately to the belief that her 33 year-old son was still "living somewhere."

Navy and Coast Guard planes and surface craft plunged into a search for the pilot. But a Navy spokesman said, "I don't hold much hope for him."

The Navy denied a rumor that a parachute had been sighted. Both the Defense Department and the Strategic Air Command headquarters at Omaha, Nebraska said that there was no evidence that the sleek one man plane which flies at admitted heights of 75,000 feet had met with hostile action over Cuba.

This is the last of the three stories which ran in late 1963.....

DMN 12-2-1963

U-2 Pilot Dead AF Discloses

LaGrange, Ga., - (AP) The Air Force has disclosed that a U-2 plane pilot died in the crash of his plane which went down in the Gulf of Mexico Nov. 20, after a mission over Cuba.

A Coast Guard cutter found the plane's wreckage about 40 miles northwest of Key West, Fla., the following day.

The Air Force notified the family Saturday that it had substantiated that Capt. Joe G. Hyde Jr. the pilot, went down with the plane. Notification was in the form of a telegram. Cause of the crash has not been announced. The victims wife said plans are being made for a memorial service at LaGrange.

Robert, I happily posted the articles from DMN I have saved on this matter.

Sounds like a freedom of information request could get the ball rolling. Do you think it was damaged by a near hit by soviet missile and managed to make it back to US soil(waters)?

27 October - Maj. Rudolf Anderson was shot down by SA-2 over Cuba; Anderson was killed when shrapnel punctured pressure suit causing suit to decompress at altitude and was posthumously awarded Air Force Cross.

Could Hyde's loss be more of the same bad news and pressure by the pentagon kept it on the back page?

Other shoot downs:

1 May 1960 near Sverdlovsk, Russia. Shot down by multiple SA-2s, CIA Pilot Francis Gary Powers survived and was put on trial and convicted as a spy, he was later traded for a convicted Russian spy.

9 September 1962 A Chinese Nationalist U-2C was shot down over Mainland China.

1 November 1963 A Chinese Nationalist U-2C was shot down over Mainland China.

7 July 1964 A Chinese Nationalist U-2C was shot down over Mainland China.

10 January 1965 A Chinese Nationalist U-2C was shot down over Mainland China.

The question is was this pilot error, equipment malfunction or a shoot down, albeit delayed. How did they know? There would be a lot of paper work on this through several channels. It just needs to be looked at again.

>Well, I think this is a very interesting and potentially lucrative area of analysis; a couple of observations.

The Badge: The top half of the badge appears octahon shaped while the bottom half is more standarized looking.....I did some image searches under google image "law enforcement badges then "search within results"

then, tried "early 1960's".....based on preliminary results,.....nothing identical popped up; next stop.....Countries which hold potential linkage based on background of the "usual suspects," France....Mob....Corsican.....Marseilles....Mexico, Canadian, Hungarian, GERMAN, intelligence, a US Law enforcement particular state badge......?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badge

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=...amp;btnG=Search

Potentially, it could even be a phony badge, as in not an official badge and therefore, not limited to traditional, or, known design.....

The I.D.[ing] of the badge seems very do-able.<

Hello Robert,

You bring up some fine points of interest. I did follow your lead and wiki provided this,

An Air Force Fire Protection Badge. Also someone mentioned our man's hat badge reminded him of a Navy(?) recruiter hat badge but can only find the Breast Shield, as is the case with many sites, a neglect for the uniform cap and hat badge.

Plus this

"A cap badge, also known as head badge or hat badge, is a badge worn on uniform headgear such as the Boy Scouts, civil defence organizations, paramedical units (e.g. the St. John Ambulance Brigade), customs services, fire services etc."

and

"A combination cap is a form of military headgear worn with dress uniforms. It has a crown, a band and peak (peak in British English, visor in US English). In Britain and Canada such caps are usually known as peaked caps or (in the British Army) service dress caps. In the United States military, they are commonly known as service caps, wheel caps, or combination covers in the Naval services.

The crown is one color, often white for navies, sky blue for air forces, and green for armies, and may be piped around the edge in a different color. The band can be one color, often black, or can be striped. Most caps have some form of cap device (or cap badge). In the British Army, each regiment and corps has a different badge. The bill is short, and in newer caps, may be a shiny plastic. Sometimes, it is covered in fabric. "

"In the United States Navy, chief petty officers and commissioned officers both wear combination caps, but there are differences between the two types. A chief petty officer wears a combination cap with a black chinstrap attached with silver buttons, and decorated with a gold fouled anchor with silver block letters "USN" superimposed on the shank of the anchor; while a commissioned officer wears a combination cap with a gold chinstrap attached by gold buttons, and decorated with an officer crest, a silver federal shield over two crossed gold fouled anchors, surmounted by a silver eagle.........."

I thought it may also be a private security force badge, not necessarily Public or Governmental service.

Robert you gave me many ideas and leads, thank you.

Ed

"Badges? We ain't got no... stinking badges!"-Alfonso Bedoya in Treasure of Sierra Madre

Thanks Ed.

Yeh, you are correct, it does appear to be a different woman. !

Robin,

Darn you beat me to the post, I made this for nothing then!

Oh well, back to the Badges and Raincoat...........

Ed

>I have lightened it some, she may be carrying a purse..possible his

rain coat is also a see through..<

Bernice,

I see her also carrying her own lightweight raincoat around her hand and purse.

Ed

Hello Bernice,

>Either that, or speaking into a something, or coughing.....??<

Smoking?

Robin,

>Nice job Ed.<

Thanks.

Superb blow up of Bell frames. Different woman? Maybe the purse is LIGHT light colored and we see it in shadow, but not the same woman. Notice the green and white car has barely moved and she is in the left of the frame.

John,

LOL! curtain rods.............

>I think you're in a good position to actally find the answer to this one, Ed<

Thank you John. I have some connections with the Fire Dept. due to my Dad, and that could help rule them in or out.

Navy Police is a good candidate, I just need a Hat Badge from that time period for comparison.

>Here's just a collage of some things.

There are some badges that have some features but none that have all, so the ones here are definitely not the ones, but I noticed at the time that some surrounding states were more likely to have wings, though that particular shaped wing perhaps not, except some MS departments. <

Nice job on this group, many come close but no winners. The Eagle is quite large, and protruding, I see it better with your excellent collage.

>It seems made up of wings, a star, a particular outline and some scrolls<

Yes. The first time I saw it I thought, oh, a star, and had me thinking "cop", but its sadly its not a DPD hat badge.

caption reads "White uniform cap and visor on Traffic Division officers." thanks to Jerry Dealey & Steve Thomas for this.

I agree with Bernice- the lady has what looks to be a large black purse.

I am leaning toward a black/dark gray rubberized rain coat (ala "Escape From Alcatraz") and is another lead to follow (Great idea Bernice, thanks). Vintage rain coats used by the Mythbusters could be a start, and is another link to Federal Bureau of Prisons- could be standard issue.

All great suggestions! Good to see this is a well received topic. Thank you.

Ed

>Great thread Ed. He's been a constant sore for me as well. I remember being told that he was DPD - he isn't. And if he was, he certainly wouldn't be waltzing across the lawn with a lady at his side during this monumental event. I was trying to ID him as a Submarine Commander - due to the JFCOTT stuff and some other bizarre stuff that I had heard. No clue - but it would be great to put this one to bed. I alleged that he purposely avoided the camera. Just an opinion.<

Thanks Lee.

You are correct, not DPD.

Can't tell if the lady is with him, though it may be that she is. You know those Navy guys got a lot of action. It's the tattoos.

Ex-Thresher crewman/officer, or Connally supporter? Could go either way (killer or clapper) lol. If he was driving Wing's Rambler we can get a two for one deal.

Hopefully I can get a good lead from someone after the holidays and wrap this one up.

Some are just camera shy, nothing sinister about that.......or is there?

Ed

Hello all,

Looking for info on the Trench Coated man with Hat Badge seen in Bell film.

Robin said John Dolva may shed some light on this mystery man.

I am posting the Bell Frames in Question as well as Some similar Hat Badges and also some from my late Fathers time as Captain in the Anchorage Fire Dept. As you will see the Breast Shield (Badge on your chest) are usually different from the Hat Badges. I will know more after Christmas, as some friends are going to show these pictures to "older" relatives who were in various services in Dallas at that time. Some early returns pointed to the Navy. The direction he was heading was toward the Terminal Annex Building which may mean Fed, or Government employee. Some ideas I had were, in no particular order:

Firefighter

Prison/Corrections

Federal Marshall (usually rounded shaped w/star in center)

Civil Service

Military(Navy, Etc.)

Government: Local, County, State, Federal.

Note the black visor and gold piping

Close, but remember Hat Badges are slightly different than shields.

These are a few badges (Shields) of interest, although not Hat Badges. The Houston is circa 1960, no date on the Navy Police one.

Some of my Dads uniform hats and badges, others are in AK State Archives in Juneau,but this gives the idea of difference between Hat Badge and Shield.

As well as this combination,

Ed

"Badges.....we don't need no stinking badges!"

I am 38 years old.

I attended Oregon State and University of Alaska Anchorage.

Live in Anchorage Alaska, where I was born and raised.

I have been student of the JFK assassination since reading Liftons 1st edition of Best Evidence back in 88'

Have worked many jobs from the North Slope to the Exxon Valdez oil spill. Have been a corrosion engineer and salesman for corrosion products used on the pipeline.

Own my own business and enjoy the freedom it gives me to follow the JFK research.

Father was secretery/treasurer for local Democratic party in the 50's, and spent years working on getting his archives to Juneau (state capital) for all to enjoy and research. They can be found in the C.E. "Chick" LeDoux archives.

I believe a conspiracy exists.