Jim Glover

Well Bill, thanks to Judyth Baker who knew David Ferrie, he had no freckles.

Hoover knew that we knew and we were set up to be in Texas on Coup Day as part of the plan to blame it on the left.

Barbara Bush writes that on the plane back to Houston, they were praying that the killer was a left winger and not a right winger. How they knew it was supposed to be a lone nut is a good question.

So the best way to keep the confusion going was to Dan Rather me with a fake David Ferrie which is the same as quoting a forged document that is true. Maybe somehow Bill, we can get Obama to release the “sensitive” and "Human source" records because it takes a president to do that.

So on that day in Texas I saw two impersonators, the Oswald Look-a-like in the custody of two Dallas cops, the David Ferrie impersonator and the real George Bush who had another “George Bush of the CIA” set up to take the blame of being debriefed By Hoover because the truth would mean Bush could never get elected and Hoover would never let anyone disclose they were on the Shadow Bus because if Hoover went down so would LBJ.

In the meantime it is the witnesses still alive and the testimony of the dead and brave researchers to tell the story that so far the government is not allowed to get out to the people.

The War ain’t over and the War System would like it if we all died or committed suicide like Phil. Now I learn that MKultra had many more departments then giving LSD to subjects and Oswald was working as a government asset just like his mother told anyone who would listen.

I doubt his mother knew Lee was working on a cancer poison to kill Castro with parts of the CIA and their domestic contacs like the Head of the Cancer Society. The War System is on the rocks but it ain’t over yet.

http://www.facebook.com/jim.glover.5815

I thought the witness who said he was 50 to 100 yrds from the motorcade was talking about how far it had passed him (meaning the front of the motorcade as it passed him going west on Elm) not how far he was from the line of the motorcade which if he was near the corner of Houston and Elm I don’t see why a witness would be so far off. Also the Altgens photo was taken right after Kennedy was hit (before the head shot) and there is no proof how many shots (audible or not there could have been shots from silencers that could not be heard at that corner) were fired. Many witnesses heard more than 3 shots so depending on where you were, the motorcycles would coverup many faint shots and even Clint Hill remembers hearing only two shots he thinks because of the motorcycles while the driver said there was a flurry of shots but Clint also said the headshot sounded like two super fast shots even though that would trash the magic bullet theory he keeps in good standing by saying he still believes Oswald did it alone. Someone close to the knoll or fence could hear shots better and the puff of smoke was caused by something other than someone smokin a joint behind the fence.

Most witnesses to the sounds of shots heard, of those who said they heard only 3 shots, most all said it was a relative long time between the first shot but the 2nd and 3rd were rapid fire... impossible from the rifle that is claimed to be Oswald’s and if Oswald ordered it under the name “Hidell" he would not be carrying Hidell ID with him and there is no reason for anyone in Texas to do that when they could buy any rifle without any Questions back then.

This is all confusing for no apparent reason when there are bullet marks on the windshield in that Altgens Photo and S.S. Agent Clint Hill has recently stated that when he jumped in the limo to protect Jackie and JFK he was looking at a large hole in the upper back of JFK's head. This is what the doctors at Parkland also saw. The autopsy photos are all very dark and leave off real views of the head wound which does not make sense for an honest autopsy. also the photo showing no big hole in the back of JFK’s head shows a huge open Hole on the right side that looks like the brain has already been removed while in other autopsy photos the back of the head is not shown but the wound on the side looks nothing like the one that shows no clear hole in the back... So it is self evident to me that the Huge hole on the right side is what the FBI said was evidence of surgery to the head.

Just sayin this thread is just confusing about proof of anything and this coup was designed to be confusing and the evidence and photos and movies do not correlate at all to each other which to me proves cover-up. I think the point here is that as Bernice has pointed out there were many ways in and out of the book building which no one person could see at the same time and there was a Garage Doorway on Houston St. at the Dal/tex building where many cars could have come from. Also I did not know there was a side entrance to the Book building.

After Jean and I broke up in 69 we were liviing on Topanga Canyon Road in LA.

I was looking for information on Bush Sr. and someone told me to go meet a girl who knew stuff.

I went to the home and met a nice girl with long red hair dessed in the hippy fashon and told me her name was Kressy but in my mind since I don’t remember the spelling I was thinking her name was Chrissy. She told me her dad was George De Morenschildt who knew Oswald. I wonder how Kressy Keardon is doing? If her mom was Jeanne, I think she was the woman my mom knew, also a dress designer, who told me to shut up about the spy games going on in my home in Cleveland when I was a little cold war kid when Gus Hall was hiding out in my room up stairs

I Hope she is doing well.

I think I know how you feel Nat. Too many people can’t handle the truth so they try to block it.

Common Dreams is a good site for politics and this one is the best for getting the truth out about JFK.

So now you are giving a good reason why your people are suspected in the JFK Coup.

With your "Where was Kennedy?”... that is the Bay of Pigs reason your group is suspect and makes me feel that they had something to do with it.

I say to the monitors, don’t erase anything because by saying too much you said a lot of true things that you don’t want revealed about some in the Cuban exile community’s motive to the JFK Coup. What you said, all of it is very relative to this topic, just not the impression you were trying to leave.

The monitors know that Sturgis is relevant. You do need help and erasing truth will not help you. The Truth is the truth and there is nothing you can do but get help and I wish you the Best.

Scott, you certainly implied that somebody around Barbara Walters should have killed him or around Nixon too and why should one man, meaning Fidel, of course not die rather than a whole country to perish.... and "it's about time" and you aren’t sure you are “bluffing"? Crazy talk so all this ambiguous hinting about he needs to go to free Cuba is crazy talk .

So if you do not want someone to kill Fidel just say so but it may get you in trouble with Alpha 66. So I think I see the sensitive position you are in with a long time terrorist group.

If you just want somebody else to do it, you are cowardly to my estimation and now we are now getting off the topic of Castro’s speech on JFK.

I think the problem is you should have quit when you said “I think I have said too much already” and as far as this topic goes you have said too much.

So to sum up, I can't help you because you do not have a peaceful soul and you know I want to end the War so don’t mess with this subject anymore with your hate.

JFK wanted peace and this topic is about that so if you have nothing more to add to this, I think you have said too much already.

Well Scott, if they are willing to sink Russian ships and still carry out warfare psychological or otherwise on Cuba, it gives Castro the perfect excuse to militantly defend Cuba.

That you admit this just makes the people of Cuba think that they are threatened by a group of Cubans in Miami who want to hurt them and put sanctions on them because they lost power and influence in Cuba.

It is old Miami Cubans against Cuba now trying to get their way but not living in the country they want to be on their side, the old side and they will all die off just like the Castro Brothers some day and I will die and you will die so who knows what will be after we all die.

Alpha 66 is not doing Cuba any good by conducting Warfare on Cuba and as you admit they like green money the most just as this is what the War Biz is really all about.

Live by war and die by war, live by hate and die from it... I see no love in your Father’s Groups only hate and revenge so they will accomplish nothing good for Cuba with their continuing war.

War is not the Answer and I hope our country finds this out too.

You're right! Life is short, to many people have suffered at the hands of others just because they spoke up against a dictator, they don't have that freedom to speak against the government, Castro is not apart of a government he is a ruthless dictator just as Papa Doc, don't be fooled by his speeches, when he was doing an interview with Barbra Walters or visited the United States to met up with Nixon someone should have killed him then, people remain in prison for 30 years just because they want to live in a free democracy, and hold free elections, what is wrong with wanting to live free? Is it not better for one man to die then a whole country to perish? No one has done anything to help these people who are in jail, and I think its time.

Well you are wasting time with me, get to Cuba and do it for them they need you right? Hey if you kill Fidel they will be free, right?

In the meantime if you are bluffing, you still need help and in Cuba you could get it for free if you can’t afford it here.

Well Scott, if they are willing to sink Russian ships and still carry out warfare psychological or otherwise on Cuba, it gives Castro the perfect excuse to militantly defend Cuba.

That you admit this just makes the people of Cuba think that they are threatened by a group of Cubans in Miami who want to hurt them and put sanctions on them because they lost power and influence in Cuba.

It is old Miami Cubans against Cuba now trying to get their way but not living in the country they want to be on their side, the old side and they will all die off just like the Castro Brothers some day and I will die and you will die so who knows what will be after we all die.

Alpha 66 is not doing Cuba any good by conducting Warfare on Cuba and as you admit they like green money the most just as this is what the War Biz is really all about.

Live by war and die by war, live by hate and die from it... I see no love in your Father’s Groups only hate and revenge so they will accomplish nothing good for Cuba with their continuing war. As I pointed out from my confrontations with them their war is on Americans too.

War is not the Answer and I hope our country also finds this out.

OK Scott, you make some good points.

I would like to see the cold war with Cuba ended so that change in Cuba and the US can begin without all this propaganda on both sides.

What do these groups like Alpha 66 and others want to do in Cuba? They went wild in Miami with glee when they thought Fidel was dead but what do they expect Cuba to do when Both he and his brother are gone? Do they expect Cuba will give them medals or something?

You said all Alpha 66 wants is the color of Green, Money, but are you saying if they are not plotting to hurt the Cuban government, what are they doing?

They don’t want me and all American Citizens to have the freedom to travel there but what right do they have to do that and control the politics of Florida with this kind of intimidation that I should not have the right to find change through peace instead of psychological war.

About ten years ago I was almost ready to take the Flotilla Race to Cuba from the sailing Squadron in Sarasota but this particular pilot scared me so when I left the Club I had to go through a gauntlet of anti Castro Cubans screaming at me like I was their mortal enemy. I learned more by not going.

When I ran for prez as a write in after I challenged Bush to a debate at the high School in Brandon which he quickly canceled and an hour or so later I got a call from Japanese CNN to debate other Dark Horses in Miami, when I said I was to talk about Bush and the JFK coup to one of Camera Crew at the bar I was told I would be killed and during the debate when I said I wanted to go to Cuba and talk to Castro about his plans even though I conceded that he was in power for too long, a fellow came out of the audience and started yelling Kill him. kill Castro! I wonder now if it was Pujol.

Do these folks still want that?

Seems like this old, old feud which if the Bible is any model could go on for a thousand years if humanity somehow is lucky enough to survive the next 10 years.

As Pujol said on his tape, "try not to hurt anyone in life if possible, but! Do not be afraid to die for what you beleive in" The United States is just sitting back to see what happens in Cuba after the death of both Castro brothers, many beleive that there will be a mass genocide and killings of who will take over in power, not even Castro's children want that responsibility, the only reason Castro has lived as long as he has is because Castro has blanketed himself around security, he also broke Cuba up into three parts with appointing three generals in each part, neither general is allowed to know what information the other generals may have. I have recently found out that Castro lives in Havana in an area called "Un Punto". And it won't be long now...

As for Alpha 66, they are still a large organization in Miami that carries out their psychological warfare on Cuba. In the 70's Alpha 66 claimed they were the ones that where plotting the sinking of a Russian vessel on the way to Cuban, but that's not true, Tomas Arencibia was asked to quit his job, his position with Alpha 66 and work for the Cubanos Unidos full time. The group Alpha 66 is a Miami-based anti-Castro organization, which they say landed a thirteen man infiltration team into Cuba during April 1970 and claimed responsibility for sinking two Cuban Government boats.

At that time discussions were held concerning an attack on a Soviet ship in route to Cuba. My father, Sturgis and Navarro, people with the Cubanos Unidos included Gordon DiBattisto, Roerme Navarro (Wilfredo’s brother), Jose ‘Pepin’ Fortuno, Navarro's uncle, Tomas Arencibia and Rafael Orosman where responsible for the sinking of the Russian ships.

My father got very drunk and when they left Navarro’s office they entered the lobby downstairs my father began ranting and raving about a Russian ship, which was in route to Cuba. He said he wanted them to help him sink it now but when everyone decided not to go along with my father’s plan, he became more belligerent and said he was going to sink it himself.

War will not help Cuba.

OK Scott, you make some good points and I should have studied more Spanish so I could read the Blog.

I would like to see the cold war with Cuba ended so that change in Cuba and the US can begin without all this propaganda on both sides.

What do these groups like Alpha 66 and others want to do in Cuba? They went wild in Miami with glee when they thought Fidel was dead but what do they expect Cuba to do when Both he and his brother are gone? Do they expect Cuba will give them medals or something?

You said all Alpha 66 likes is the color of green money, but are you saying they are not plotting to hurt the Cuban government, if not what are they doing?

They don’t want me and all American Citizens to have the freedom to travel there but what right do they have to do that and control the politics of Florida with this kind of intimidation that I should not have the right to find change through peace instead of psychological war.

More than ten years ago during Clinton I was almost ready to take the Regatta Race to Cuba from the Sailing Squadron in Sarasota and we were briefed by the State Dept. that we could go but can’t spend a dollar, but this particular pilot scared me so when I left the Club I had to go through a gauntlet of anti Castro Cubans screaming at me like I was their mortal enemy. I learned more by not going.

When I ran for prez as a write in after I challenged Bush Sr. to a debate at the high School in Brandon he quickly canceled his Speech. In about an hour or so later I got a call from Japanese CNN to debate other Dark Horses in Miami. In Miami when I said I was to talk about Bush and the JFK coup to one of Camera Crew at the bar I was told I would be killed and during the debate when I said I wanted to go to Cuba and talk to Castro about his plans even though I conceded that he was in power for too long, a fellow came out of the audience and started yelling Kill him, kill Castro! I wonder now if it was Pujol.

Do these folks still want that, and does their hate blind them to the fact that Fidel is one of the most popular persons in the world?

Seems like this old, old feud which if the Bible is any model could go on for a thousand years if humanity somehow is lucky enough to survive the next 10 years.

given the drift if this topic I don't think this is out of place.

I N T E R N A T I O N A L

Havana. February 16, 2012

Luis Posada Carriles: new

plots against Cuba

Percy Francisco Alvarado Godoy

ACCORDING to reliable sources, terrorist Luis Posada Carriles is plotting new acts of violence against Cuba, and is doing so in a context of total compartmentalization and secrecy, with the support of a number of counterrevolutionary and criminal members of Miami's anti-Cuban mafia.

Posada's rekindled activities have increased as he has renewed contacts with terrorists such as Santiago Alvarez Fernandez Magriñá, Enrique Encinoza, Gaspar Jiménez Escobedo, Pedro Crispín Remón Rodríguez, Reynold Rodríguez, Luis Zúñiga Rey, Dionisio Suárez Esquivel, Roberto Martín Pérez, Félix Alonso, Rodolfo Rodríguez San Román, Orlando Martínez Paz, Félix Rodríguez Mendigutía, Saúl Ramón Sánchez Rizo, Angel Francisco D´fana Serrano, Ernesto Díaz Rodríguez, Osiel González Rodríguez, Francisco José Hernández Calvo, Roberto Martín Pérez, Horacio Salvador García Cordero, and Aldo Rosado Tuero, joined by yet another terrorist involved in the frustrated attempt on Fidel Castro's life in Panama: César Matamoros. Many of these individuals are members of terrorist organizations such as Alpha 66, the Cuban Liberty Council and the Cuban-American National Foundation.

A number of actions and events confirm the re-initiation of these contacts:

• A formal meeting of Luis Posada Carriles and several of these people on August 30, 2011, during celebrations for the 50th anniversary of Alpha 66.

• A formal meeting between Luis Posada Carriles and members of the terrorist mafia on receiving the keys to the city of Hialeah, June 14, 2011.

• A formal meeting of Luis Posada Carriles with Pedro Crispín Remón, Gaspar Jiménez Escobedo, César Matamoros, and ex-Panamanian President Mireya Moscoso, during a Radio Mambí program, January 17, 2012.

• A tribute to Luis Posada Carriles January 28, 2012, during a function at Miami's Manuel Artime Theater.

In all of the above events, Posada Carriles conversed freely with his fellow terrorists, without showing any discretion, given the presence of reporters, thus revealing his sense of total impunity.

However, at a more discreet level, Luis Posada Carriles has maintained systematic contact with members of Miami's terrorist groups.

One such secret meeting to plot acts of violence against Cuba took place recently in the residence of Santiago Alvarez Fernández-Magriñá. Beside Luis Posada Carriles and the host, also present were Guillermo Novo Sampoll, Luis Zúñiga Rey, Reynol Rodríguez and Roberto Martín Pérez. The meeting reached the following agreements:

• To support Saúl Ramón Sánchez Rizo and the Democracy Movement in acts of provocation planned during Pope Benedict XVI's upcoming visit to Cuba. The aim is to provide vessels for a flotilla and to use all possible means to encourage the Cuban population to go to coastal city seafronts and express solidarity with these acts.

• To apply to U.S. authorities for a permit to use an aircraft to drop counterrevolutionary leaflets over Cuban territory, once again in support of José Basulto from the Brothers to the Rescue organization. This would create the conditions for a repeat of an incident similar to the one on February 24, 1996, thus worsening relations between the Obama administration and the Cuban government.

• To immediately dispatch agents to Cuba to give sabotage instructions to internal counterrevolutionary groups in the context of the Pope's visit and the 21st International Book Fair of Havana. In relation to the latter event, Miami terrorists anticipate mobilizing mercenaries proclaiming themselves independent journalists, in order to create disturbances in Book Fair venues, on the pretext of their restricted freedom of expression and the impossibility of having their books published.

Regarding the visit of Pope Benedict XVI, Posada's group has weighed up the possibility of using the Damas de Blanco (Women in White) to create acts of provocation. Likewise, there are promises of new and larger means of support and financial aid to Berta Soler and her acolytes, through the agents dispatched.

In other meetings of Posada Carriles and Santiago Alvarez with various mafia members resident in Florida, it was decided to create a group to operate – it is already doing so – on the Facebook social network, internal and foreign counterrevolutionary blogs and Twitter, to increase provocations against Cuba. This group centrally comprises Aldo Rosado Tuero, Dionisio de la Torre Jr, Nancy Calzadilla, Eduardo Rodríguez, Olga Sánchez, Mercedes Perdigón, Lucy Ramón and other professional slanderers. In the same context, they have contacted their principal mercenaries in Cuba, Yoani Sánchez Cordero, Sara Martha Fonseca Quevedo, Marta Beatriz Roque Cabello and, more recently, José Daniel Ferrer, in order to intensify the ideological campaign against Cuba, using as ideological tools the alleged repression of "dissidents" and media shows presenting hunger strikes, beatings and ill-treatment in prisons, etc.

Another method employed by Posada Carriles' associates is the harassment of Cuban journalists and officials using SMS messages containing threats to them and their family members. This demonstrates their mafiosi nature and further confirms the presence of Posada in the shadows, given that this is a method he has resorted to most frequently during his criminal life.

Finally, Posada Carriles' new terrorist group is studying a number of options for re-instigating extremist actions – which Cuba successfully neutralized in 1997 – by targeting the Scarabeo-9 oil rig, the Matanzas Antonio Guiteras Thermoelectric Plant and other economic targets. It is the responsibility of the FBI and U.S. authorities to intervene in this matter. Recently, we sent a personal letter to these agencies exposing terrorist plots being hatched in the United States in open violation of the Neutrality Act of June 25, 1948, Articles 960 - 962. No answer has been received to date.

As addition elements, we can also confirm that, in the last few days, Posada Carriles has been seeking new financial sources to perpetrate these terrorist acts against Cuba, as well as to use some of this income to repay legal debts incurred during his trial in El Paso, Texas.

Moreover, this terrorist's personal concerns cannot be overlooked, which makes him all the more dangerous. He needs to win merit from the U.S. ultra-right and Miami mafia groups, given the possibility of being extradited to Panama, after the Second Circuit Court ruled his pardon by President Mireya Moscoso unconstitutional. Also pending is the threat that the freezing by a New Jersey Grand Jury of a court case in relation to Posada Carriles’ involvement in the death of Italian Fabio di Celmo and other acts of terrorism could be overturned. This should be borne in mind because, at the same time, he could also be planning an escape in the event of this contingency.

This is the latest news on this terrorist, who is not exempt from the Cuban people’s vigilance, although he believes himself protected and enjoying impunity. In this way, I am advising him that the promise to his associates of doing something for Cuba soon, has been frustrated in advance.

Ah, I almost forgot… I should warn Congress members willing to be involved in Posada's plans – as is the case in the attempt to release the terrorist Eduardo Arocena – that they are about to enter into an extremely dangerous game. Remember what George W. Bush said, "Any government supporting, protecting or harboring terrorists is … equally guilty of terrorist crimes!" despite the difference between what the United States says and actually does on this issue. (Taken from Cubadebate)

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None of this is true...

Scott, why do you say none of this is true?

Do these groups want peace with the Cuban government? Can you point out something which is not true if all of it is false?

Thanks, Jim

No Scott , I didn’t talk to Frank and knew little about any names of the strangers on the bus. Our Bus was leaving Florida and I mailed a card home monday the 18th after a concert in Florida. So at times between the 18th and the 22 I was probably drugged and remember no gigs. In Florida, I had a gig on an Island or some place with a stage set up on a ball field, and one of the singers who was with me since they separated me from My wife Jean when we hit Florida noticed that most of the small crowd in the audience looked like young Latino Soldiers. I remember singing solo the Ballad of Billie Sol Estes about the Scandal that LBJ was involved in and probably why he would have been dumped if Kennedy lived. I already gave the name of that musician long ago as Tumbleweed Tom who along with Rovin Grove sang with Gypsy Boots but on the Island gig I remember the musician with me was Tumbleweed, and was with me when I entered the Pines Motel that night of the 22nd and he said "Didn’t Kennedy just get killed”, when the men in the office and little Bar were celebrating. I found a review of the tour playing on Stock Island in Florida but the reporter would not confirm or answer if it was me who got the good review and I don’t know if Stock Island is really surrounded by water so I may have been on a real Island, the medium sized boat, maybe a secret base since some people were still trying to kill Castro and you told us about that.

But it seems they figured if I lived through this I would suspect the Cubans, but nobody ever talks about Hollywood, that is forbidden and Bush who was a friend of Oswald's CIA handler George Demorhenshildt and his wife Jeanne who thought Oswald was being set up. Gee, I wonder why they didn’t call Bush to the Warren Commission... maybe because Hoover and Dulles knew him to well.

So somewhere between Florida and and Texas was when I saw Sturgis and I was too afraid to probe and slept a lot maybe they drugged me at times around 3 days of the trip and remember very few concerts on the whole tour. Carlos Marcello was not Cuban and my wife Jean told me at our RR break in New Orleans on the way to Florida and Key West that we were to meet an important person so we went to the Club in the French quarter and this short man with a low voice told me to take a hike after I asked him my first question So I went to the John and before I left saw he was sitting on something to make him look taller so now I think it was Marcello. At a strip club right down the street I was the only one in the joint when the dancer came over to chat I told her I think there is a plot to Kill the president. later when I asked Jean who that guy was she said he was trying to help our duet. Soon after the tour it was arranged to take a flight from LA to Mobile Alabama to get new publicity Shots at a studio there. So the studio in Mobile which address was given to Jean by Marcello, acquitted of organized crime the day Kennedy was killed... the airplane was an old world War two twin DC 3 I think, Tiger Airlines which I was told by my friend who picked me up back in LA was a CIA air plane. The photographer didn’t want my guitar in the photo, only a white rose held by Jean. Maybe a hint they wanted to link us with the White Rose party of Cubans? The CIA covers it all don’t they.

I think since Jean was not on the plane goin back that they may have been testing me to see how I would react to the farce of flying to Mobile from LA to get publicity shots on a CIA plane. by the way Gypsy Boots who tried to keep our spirits up by buying fresh fruit and veggies and his watchword was, "Don’t panic go organic", he knew JFK ’s press Secretary, who I think was the one who said he also heard they had the case closed on the other Air force plane in the pacific, the cabinets plane.... Salinger.

So maybe some Cubans were involved in one way or another but this could not have been a Cuban Operation period. The more people knew something was going down in all the important groups, the more those people would be afraid to talk or get involved in a very complicated mystery, the first to have Doubles as the patsy.

But even Bush had his double when he said "oh that must be another George Bush of the CIA". Barbara writes on their way back to Houston they were praying that the killer was not a Conservative but a Leftist.

I think Dulles and Jesus Angleton had more inside knowledge and access than anyone and Dulles who prided himself with his methods of "hiding things in plain site" even told his fellow Warren Commission members “ if the Government is involved they will lie to you”.

So this is as far as I can figure. They manipulate and control people with lies, and the method is still in operation.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, Scott, I thought from your words that Pujol was your father and you believed in his theory that Fidel was behind the Coup.

I thought you changed your name... so your Father changed his name or used a different one? My Grandpa from Belarus changed his name to Cohen when he came over and was in trouble with the Czar’s police so I understand secret stuff.

As you can tell from what I have been through, I am not just a researcher but a witness and react with a lot of emotion because this is not a scholarly lesson to study for me, although I keep learning more, I guess it is my job now.

You sound like you have good information and I hope you can get it to us here and the secrets out like I just did. It is good for you and your country to get the truth out before it is too late. I always want to learn more so please get it out... for instance from what I have witnessed and explained, do you have anything to add or that I have got wrong in your opinion?

Thanks, Jim

Jim,

No problem for the misunderstanding, I can see how you thought Pujol was my dad. I will be totally honest with you, Kennedy’s assassination had not affected me like it has with many of you, and I can understand that. The only area this whole ordeal affected me was with this unimaginable loss of my own father at such a young age who was somehow connected in the fall out of the CIA, JFK and Watergate conspiracies. In the past I have tried posting information about my father, giving those the benefit of the doubt to acccept me with an open mind, and a warm welcome. I was immediately under attack.

I have mentioned my father’s journals, notes and letters, including several people who were associated with my father who where apart of several different anti-Castro groups, Operation 40, and Watergate people, that were posted on here and other forums. However, it seems as though my father’s information was taken for a grain of salt, I say this because when people and researchers including CT’ers (conspiracy theorist) have made up their minds on how things may have happen, most do not want to welcome the idea of different documented evidence, so I just let it be.

I am not out to change anyone’s mind or shove any information down anyone’s throat who is not willing to listen to what I have to say or provide, so I thought the best way to get my father’s information out was to write a book about what I know and let the world decide for itself, what is so wonderful about this book is that for the first time I name names no one has ever heard of, I provide new avenue’s for research, and I want the reader to interact with the different subjects at hand.

I have wanted to get the word out about my father’s death as it was no accident. The CIA tampered with evidence by sinking the boat my father was killed on. There was never any proper investigation that took place, and because of my past experiences here I have decided not to post anymore of my father’s information or personal items. I did however, bring several of the items with me when I spoke at a conference held by the SFRG (South Florida Research Group). “Treefrog” was the meeting coordinator.

The wealth of information I gave them should be sufficient enough to know that I’m not just another person who's crying wolf (meaning I'm not providing false information). That is the only information I will release from here on out to the general public until the release of my father’s book which is now in near completion. There is a wealth of information about my father, his connections to everyone, including information never before seen.

Scott Kaiser

Thanks Scott, no problem with me either and you are welcome and needed to add to the information to get closer to the truth. I saw Frank Sturgis a few days before Coup day and others involved in one way or the other. After I was abducted after Kennedy was pronounced dead and forced on another chartered Shadow Tour Bus because they knew I knew what was happening, I heard somebody say when many strangers and men in suits along with two Dallas Cops got on with the Oswald look a like in custody at a small air strip near Houston say “The Corsican Brothers are here” David Ferrie wasn’t Cuban and since I was being set up anyone else could be also... the Shooters are unknown to me and most likely killed early on. They shot the double Oswald that night, probably a decoy, and I heard the shotgun and was warned to stay in my little room at an isolated area near or in Sam Houston National Forest.

They want us to guess “Who shot JFK” because that is not the problem, it is the continuing cover-up that makes it a Coup.

Another reason I don’t believe any one group of race or nationality is responsible as shooters, spotters, decoys or organizers and certainly a group of people from Cuba were not responsible for the cover up, that was on the direct orders of LBJ and Hoover was the most aggressive in carrying it out under the excuse of “National Security".

I was told by a researcher in 74 that a sort of Cuban looking man I saw on the Bus When it stopped in Dallas a week or so before the assassination and was told by his friends that Kennedy would be killed that his last name was Odom or Odum. He was called “Lee" on the Hollywood Hootenanny shadow tour bus and had a long Roman nose. He didn’t like me asking questions either but did you ever meet or hear of a Lee Odom? It could be an alias for all I know.

I saw him again in Brandon at the Library many years ago, 1990 when a close friend of mine who was also a witness was taking out a book on Felix Rodriquez who she once knew, Lee walked by me and got in his Brown Car and there were about half a dozen similar Brown cars parked near by in the parking lot. Was Brown a favorite Color for Alpha 66 by any chance?

I saw Frank Sturgis a few days before Coup day and others involved in one way or the other.

Interesting you say this, did you know Frank? How did you come to know him? How did you meet him and through who did you meet him? Are you sure it was Frank in Dallas? How sure are you? Just a few questions for you to answer if you don't mind, also. I never heard of Lee Odom, sorry. As for Alpha 66 favorite color, I think it was green, (the color of money) what I mean by that was, Alpha 66 didn't infiltrate Cuba and do the things they claimed they did or should I say as often as they did, they where a CIA front company that provided money and financing to other groups and organizations that actually did the dirty work, thus the reason why many of the members of Alpha 66 joined my father's group the "Cubanos Unidos" that was more of a hard line group that infiltrated into Cuba.

http://cuban-exile.com/doc_001-025/doc0023.html

I had to turn off my freaking imac mouse so this is the third time I tried to answer you as every little movement seems to erase what i write.

The Guy I saw as Lee was tall, thick neck and a long hook nose so you probably don’t know him and he may not even be Cuban.

I din’t talk to Frank Sturgis at that point I was too suspicious of all the strangers who kept getting on and off the Hollywood Hootenanny tour bus and there was more than one Bus and could have been several. I am bad with names but faces stick in my mind. I saw him at the back of the bus and wondered what he was doing on the music Bus.

A guy with fake eyebrows and ill fitting wig turned to me and said do you know him as he pointed to George Bush who got on after the Dallas Cops had the Oswald look a like in custody. Ferrie was from my hometown and a friend of mine told me years later the the guy who wanted to talk to me but I was warned about was David Ferrie, when my friend and I were in High school and Ferrie was training some Civil Patrol kids to march around a nearby School yard. This was years after George Bush asked me to spy on my folks.

At times he had little George W. with him but wouldn’t let him play football with us bigger kids.

By the way, back on the bus in Texas, and before the tour, I was warned not to write anything down and not interfere on the Tour because it was dangerous and at this point I thought if they can kill the president they sure as hell will kill me if I say anything about what I knew before hand.

Right about the time I was abducted near Houston and that town with the big prison, Huntsville and other folk singers remember where they were when JFK was shot, my friend Phil Ochs was being filmed in the garage Doorway of the Dal/tex building and I posted the stills from the film clips here many years ago:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=10194

Bush always claimed he didn’t know where he was on Coup Day but after I reported him to the FBI in Tampa, the word must have gotten to Barbara which I encouraged and challenged Bush to Debate, because she came out with her story how they were in Tyler Texas when they heard the news and Of course she did not mention that George Called the FBI to give a phony report on a possible killer.

Barbara wrote supposedly from her diary that they then flew to a town near Dallas to drop off there private pilot then flew to Dallas to connect to the next Plane to Houston.

Near or at Houston is Where Bush got on the bus and was sitting next to Hoover when I got back on the Bus after a pit stop and they both looked right into my eyes as I passed them to get to my seat.

After that scary night at the pines Motel around Point Blank texas our bus headed back to LA Saturday night and I was told the tour was cancelled and in the mountains we were being followed by grey military vehicles.

By the way there were two agents with sophisticated head phones talking on radios in front of me on Sunday maybe around the time Ruby was shooting Oswald and I asked them who killed president Kennedy and the guy on the window seat pointed up towards the part of the Bus where Hoover was sitting before and said we had a meeting with Hoover and it was decided that it was an security test that went bad and it wasn’t the Cubans... so that sounded like a cover story and I thought they were FBI since thy talked about hoover so I said what Agency are you with and he said NASA, not knowing at the time that NASA had a security service and that Kennedy had made a Deal with Russia to share space information to avoid a nuclear War by accident I thought “Oh sure your NASA”.

All the way back to LA there were Three short guys stowed away in the luggage compartment and we could hear them talking under the bus floor. When we got back to Glendale bus station they jumped out of the compartment and ran away and the guy who talked me into the tour indicated they were Mexican because when I said "who were they", he said “oh just some Wetbacks” and then said nothing about the Assassination which he told me not to write anything down about.

At this time Oswald was long fingered as the Lone nut and it was announced to LBJ on Airforce One before they touched down in DC and then LBJ could call Rose Kennedy and she sounded like “Thank you, good by we all know Jack loved you”

but it sounded like "please don’t kill us all to me".

Thanks for listening and I got to get rid of that damn mouse.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, Scott, I thought from your words that Pujol was your father and you believed in his theory that Fidel was behind the Coup.

I thought you changed your name... so your Father changed his name or used a different one? My Grandpa from Belarus changed his name to Cohen when he came over and was in trouble with the Czar’s police so I understand secret stuff.

As you can tell from what I have been through, I am not just a researcher but a witness and react with a lot of emotion because this is not a scholarly lesson to study for me, although I keep learning more, I guess it is my job now.

You sound like you have good information and I hope you can get it to us here and the secrets out like I just did. It is good for you and your country to get the truth out before it is too late. I always want to learn more so please get it out... for instance from what I have witnessed and explained, do you have anything to add or that I have got wrong in your opinion?

Thanks, Jim

Jim,

No problem for the misunderstanding, I can see how you thought Pujol was my dad. I will be totally honest with you, Kennedy’s assassination had not affected me like it has with many of you, and I can understand that. The only area this whole ordeal affected me was with this unimaginable loss of my own father at such a young age who was somehow connected in the fall out of the CIA, JFK and Watergate conspiracies. In the past I have tried posting information about my father, giving those the benefit of the doubt to acccept me with an open mind, and a warm welcome. I was immediately under attack.

I have mentioned my father’s journals, notes and letters, including several people who were associated with my father who where apart of several different anti-Castro groups, Operation 40, and Watergate people, that were posted on here and other forums. However, it seems as though my father’s information was taken for a grain of salt, I say this because when people and researchers including CT’ers (conspiracy theorist) have made up their minds on how things may have happen, most do not want to welcome the idea of different documented evidence, so I just let it be.

I am not out to change anyone’s mind or shove any information down anyone’s throat who is not willing to listen to what I have to say or provide, so I thought the best way to get my father’s information out was to write a book about what I know and let the world decide for itself, what is so wonderful about this book is that for the first time I name names no one has ever heard of, I provide new avenue’s for research, and I want the reader to interact with the different subjects at hand.

I have wanted to get the word out about my father’s death as it was no accident. The CIA tampered with evidence by sinking the boat my father was killed on. There was never any proper investigation that took place, and because of my past experiences here I have decided not to post anymore of my father’s information or personal items. I did however, bring several of the items with me when I spoke at a conference held by the SFRG (South Florida Research Group). “Treefrog” was the meeting coordinator.

The wealth of information I gave them should be sufficient enough to know that I’m not just another person who's crying wolf (meaning I'm not providing false information). That is the only information I will release from here on out to the general public until the release of my father’s book which is now in near completion. There is a wealth of information about my father, his connections to everyone, including information never before seen.

Scott Kaiser

Thanks Scott, no problem with me either and you are welcome and needed to add to the information to get closer to the truth. I saw Frank Sturgis a few days before Coup day and others involved in one way or the other. After I was abducted after Kennedy was pronounced dead and forced on another chartered Shadow Tour Bus because they knew I knew what was happening, I heard somebody say when many strangers and men in suits along with two Dallas Cops got on with the Oswald look a like in custody at a small air strip near Houston say “The Corsican Brothers are here” David Ferrie wasn’t Cuban and since I was being set up anyone else could be also... the Shooters are unknown to me and most likely killed early on. They shot the double Oswald that night, probably a decoy, and I heard the shotgun and was warned to stay in my little room at an isolated area near or in Sam Houston National Forest.

They want us to guess “Who shot JFK” because that is not the problem, it is the continuing cover-up that makes it a Coup.

Another reason I don’t believe any one group of race or nationality is responsible as shooters, spotters, decoys or organizers and certainly a group of people from Cuba were not responsible for the cover up, that was on the direct orders of LBJ and Hoover was the most aggressive in carrying it out under the excuse of “National Security".

I was told by a researcher in 74 that a sort of Cuban looking man I saw on the Bus When it stopped in Dallas a week or so before the assassination and was told by his friends that Kennedy would be killed that his last name was Odom or Odum. He was called “Lee" on the Hollywood Hootenanny shadow tour bus and had a long Roman nose. He didn’t like me asking questions either but did you ever meet or hear of a Lee Odom? It could be an alias for all I know.

I saw him again in Brandon at the Library many years ago, 1990 when a close friend of mine who was also a witness was taking out a book on Felix Rodriquez who she once knew, Lee walked by me and got in his Brown Car and there were about half a dozen similar Brown cars parked near by in the parking lot. Was Brown a favorite Color for Alpha 66 by any chance?

What do most of you all think about that book (apologize, can't remember the name) that came out 3-4 years ago claiming that the Kennedy's (JFK/RFK) were planning a coup in Cuba named C-DAY (similar to D-DAY). JFK/RFK had an agreement worked out with one of Castro's brothers to overthrow Fidel Dec 1 1963. If I recall correctly, the theory was that some nukes were still around in Cuba and the 'powers at be' in the US decided they needed to get rid of Kennedy to stop this calamity if the coup failed. I may be mixing up different theories.

Also, it was interesting a few years ago that Castro claimed he had informed the Reagan administration of a right wing assassination attempt on him which was stopped due to this Cuban intelligence (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-09-12-cuba-castro-reagan_N.htm).

My gut feeling is once Castro dies, if there is any kind of government release of JFK documents, they'll all point the blame or associate the blame on Castro/Cuba. That's probably what they had intended back in the 60s when they had the documents covered up till 2070 or some ridiculous date.

Rodney, 2017 is the new release date but they can’t release who the real shooters are if they have it written down which is never done in Assassinations or any secret operation to protect themselves and they won’t release anything that damages the image of the USA period. If they release stuff that points to anyone but the "lone nut", they will have to defend it but they can’t and it will open pandoras Box... their box. For instance read what we already have on the CIA here:

http://politicalassassinations.com/2012/02/the-holy-grail-of-the-jfk-story-seven-steps-to-unlocking-the-historical-truth-about-the-assassination-in-dallas-2/

Congress already ruled that the FBI wanted the lone nut judgement and did not follow important leads because of that.

LBJ’s and Hoover’s asses were on the line because JFK’s seretary and even Nixon knew that LBJ would be dropped from the ticket for the Billy Sol Estes Scandel.

I read that one you are referring too called “Ultimate Sacrifice”.

I am sure there were several contingency plans to excuse another invasion of Cuba like Operation Northwoods, but they presented no documents other than phony looking ones and none showed JFK was behind it in fact JFK was a loner on ending the Cold War... read "The Unspeakable" cause it has letters from JFK to Russia on the peace deal and that was trashed immediately after the coup... the only thing they got right in Ultimate Sacrifice was that there were parallel plots in Miami, Tampa, and Chicago but of course Dallas was the place to cover it up. LBJ and his backers, Hoover and his crime boss Friends like Carlos Marcello who after RFK deported him he snuck back to New Orleans and was acquitted of all organized crime the day JFK was killed. Marcello ran the south in the Rackets and backed LBJ and was Hoovers pal like so many other bosses.

Russia found out about the new plot to invade Cuba again ( Castro had better intel than the CIA) and Khrushchev warned a few weeks before the coup that it would mean War so JFK would not be involved and was trying to shut the dangerous plots down, which would mean war with Russia and a double cross, for many months before the coup.

By the way the CIA’s inside job man that was supposed to take over for the US in the "Ultimate Sacrifice" story was a Cuban who is still high up in the Cuban government, but he was not Fidel’s brother who is now in charge.

Sorry for the misunderstanding, Scott, I thought from your words that Pujol was your father and you believed in his theory that Fidel was behind the Coup.

I thought you changed your name... so your Father changed his name or used a different one? My Grandpa from Belarus changed his name to Cohen when he came over and was in trouble with the Czar’s police so I understand secret stuff.

As you can tell from what I have been through, I am not just a researcher but a witness and react with a lot of emotion because this is not a scholarly lesson to study for me, although I keep learning more, I guess it is my job now.

You sound like you have good information and I hope you can get it to us here and the secrets out like I just did. It is good for you and your country to get the truth out before it is too late. I always want to learn more so please get it out... for instance from what I have witnessed and explained, do you have anything to add or that I have got wrong in your opinion?

Thanks, Jim

Well, this is the first time I have heard of you, Scott

For over four years I have released lots of informtion on my father, not may people have herd of me or my father, I have kept this information quite for 35 yers, there is still information about me that people are not aware of, as for Pujol being a proud assassin, I'd say he didn't complete his job, Fidel Castro is still alive isn't he?

-------------------

Sorry for the double post, I was attempting an edit, but it bears repeating so I’ll leave it.

You are correct, Scott, that Fidel is still alive but since Pujol was involved in one way or another in countless attempts if I understood him, than he is a member of an assassination group. Now if his group did not kill anybody else in their cause of getting rid off Fidel, or even if he did something to stop killing others, than I would amend it to a "failed assassin” at best.

He is also a xxxx in thinking that Castro would risk being invaded or killed by US forces by killing Kennedy for something IKE/Nixon, set up with the CIA/Mob when JFK was a senator and the Bush gang supported when JFK is the only one to try to end the Cold War with Cuba and pledged to Russia that he would not invade Cuba or allow it to happen from the USA.

So what is your reason to put his confession of being a failed assassin on here if you think, like Pujol, that Fidel did it, what is your evidence?

Did you report your knowledge to the FBI?

Maybe the reason I haven't heard of you before on this matter is you don’t make any sense. If he is your Father, I can understand your bias but without evidence you are not doing his legacy any good.

Well, this is the first time I have heard of you, Scott

For over four years I have released lots of informtion on my father, not may people have herd of me or my father, I have kept this information quite for 35 yers, there is still information about me that people are not aware of, as for Pujol being a proud assassin, I'd say he didn't complete his job, Fidel Castro is still alive isn't he?

-------------------

You are correct, Scott, that Fidel is still alive but since Pujol was involved in one way or another in countless attempts if I understood him, than he is a member of an assassination group. Now if his group did not kill anybody else in their cause of getting rid off Fidel, or even if he did something to stop killing others, than I would amend it to a "failed assassin” at best.

He is also a xxxx in thinking that Castro would risk being invaded or killed by US forces by killing Kennedy for something IKE/Nixon, set up with the CIA/Mob when JFK was a senator and the Bush gang supported when JFK is the only one to try to end the Cold War with Cuba and pledged to Russia that he would not invade Cuba or allow it to happen from the USA.

So what is your reason to put his confession of being a failed assassin on here if you think, like Pujol, that Fidel did it, what is your evidence?

Did you report your knowledge to the FBI?

Maybe the reason I haven't heard of you before on this matter is you don’t make any sense. If he is your Father, I can understand your bias but without evidence you are not doing his legacy any good.

Excellent work, Rob. What is very bizarre how less than two days after the assassination he has found so many holes in the story, which at that time had barely even been created. He was probably very familiar with assassination attempts and the stories behind them.

He was probably very familiar with assassination attempts and the stories behind them.

I have not completely ruled out Castro knowing something before hand of Kennedy's assassination, as my friend Jose Pujol puts it so passionately, he thinks Castro was involved, others who have fought Castro and plotted to assassinate him said, "I don't think Castro was involved directly, but he help by incorporating something".

Well, this is the first time I have heard of you, Scott, or Jose Pujol and his accent is hard for me to get all his words but He admits being involved in plots to kill Castro and I believe he said he was told by Americans in Canton Ohio during Ike’s presidency to be on the side of getting rid of him and then he says he fought with Fidel and Che but obviously as an asset for the CIA.

Of course, the CIA had infiltrators helping Castro in the beginning like David Ferrie and Watergate Burglar Frank Sturgis.

Folks like these still want to kill Castro and with people like the Bush family as their friends and protectors I see why Castro is very suspicious of US intentions with the Cold War still on and just a bit of softening by Obama.

I saw the plot to kill JFK in Texas and was told about it by my friend, Phil Ochs who was a National Security Observer being filmed by a British cameraman in the garage Doorway of the Dal/Tex building right after the assassination.

He hung himself on April 9th, 76 just when Congress was threatening to get to the truth and found out about the attempts to kill Castro that Jose Pujol admitted too, but was posing as a fellow revolutionary. Phil could not handle telling the truth to his fans and it would have been too dangerus for us both at that time.

Sure Castro knew about the CIA attempts to kill him and Oswald was working on a cancer virus with Ferrie and his girl friend Judyth Baker in New Orleans.

Castro knew that the Fair Play for Cuba Committee was practically a government front it was so infiltrated and Oswald was not even in a real FPCC group. But my friend, Phil Ochs, was because the day he told me about the plot months before it happend and asked me if I would let him know If I learned anything, he said he was going to a Fair Play for Cuba meeting in NYC to find out more.

Well, after I came out and ran against Bush Sr. for Prez in 90-92 as a write-in and reported my story to the FBI in Tampa, I called VJ Lee who ran the organization back then if he knew Phil Ochs and he said, "Oh yes Phil was working for us", and when I told him Phil was working for US National Security he was not surprised.

So, Jose thinks Castro was the man behind it and I think what else would a CIA asset who plotted the death of Castro say, the same thing that Frank Sturgis said and the reason Phil and I were set up to be in Texas on that day was we were considered “Commies" by Hoover and the Government’s War against Communism and on top of that we were Folk Singers who fought for Peace in Viet Nam, Civil Rights and went down to Mississippi for Freedom Summer and as long as Hoover was up there the truth tellers were threatened the most and I have had many close calls myself and am lucky to tell you all the truth and the truth is worth dying for.

So, please tell Jose we both believe in freedom but I am no proud Assassin which may be our big difference.

Hi Bill,

There is no damage to the windshield shown in the Altgens photo of the man in the doorway that was taken at Z255. The next Altgens photo, taken after the head shot as Clint Hill is climbing on the back of the limousine, for the first time shows damage to the windshield at the location later shown in FBI photos taken on the night of November 22/23rd at the Secret Service garage. Since there is no damage visible at Z255 and there is damage visible after the head shot, it would seem reasonable to think that the damage to the windshield was caused by a fragment from the head shot. The damage was found to be non-penetrating with a lead smear on the interior of the windshield. Blood spatter on the interior of the windshield is also visible in photos taken on he night of November 22/23. All this is also described in Robert Frazier's notes of his examination of the car at that time.

JT

Is it true that the Atkins photo of the Man in the Doorway that shows the damaged windshield was taken BEFORE the fatal head shot?

BK

Josiah, I keep goin back and on the first page of this topic I see both cracks or holes on the windshield in the famous Altgens photo and others here pointed them out to me.

The thing that even bolsters this cover-up is that the jacketed ammo was designed not to even fragment let alone explode! and the Carcano company said so and this could not happen. Lots of tiny fragments were ex-rayed in Kennedy’s skull that "lighted up like stars in the night" according to one FBI at the autopsy. Compare that damage to the "magic bullet" that went through Kennedy and Connally with barely a scratch and the exploding bullet or bullets from the head shot.

Just that alone and the fact that one of the empty Shells found on the 6th floor had a dent on its mouth that would make it unable to fire and Oswald was eating lunch at the time according to witnesses.

When officer Roger Craig first found the 3 shells they were neatly lined up, a clear sign that the guy in the window was a decoy who thought he was doing a test and I was told by agents the next day in Texas that it was a test that went bad, that was Hoover’s excuse to suspicious agents right after the hit.

One more thing that has not been pointed out on the Zapruder film is when Connally emerges from the freeway sign he is facing right at the camera, even his shoulders just a moment before Kennedy grabs his throat making it impossible for the magic bullet to do what they say it did and they always show him looking straight ahead in simulations and drawings when he was hit... even in the Altgens photo his face and body is still facing towards the Zapruder camera while Kennedy is holding his throat.

Everything about the case has been doctored and confusion is the best way to get away with a coup.

Josiah, I don’t agree. Jack White showed a blow-up of the windshield, the same photo with Billy Lovelady in the doorway.

Jack’s blowup clearly shows damage just to the right of the rearview mirror looking from Altgen’s view and you have to go back and read all the posts to see that there is another larger point of damage close to the Driver on the windshield.

Can you post photos to show what you are saying because I have seen the blowups on this thread.

The official photo of the “crack” might have fresh chalking to show it is a replacement windshield, and two cracks or holes on the “official" photo of the limo’s windshield would be too much for the cover-up to deal with.

Can you show the blood on that crack of the “official" photo, and who claimed to see the blood on that crack on that photo?

You could be right, I could be wrong but after seeing both "spiral nebulas” on blowup photos on this thread I need proof that I did not see what is here on this thread.

Did you see the blowup of Jack white’s hard work on the area near the mirror on the windshield? this is before the head shot and Kennedy is still holding his throat and Jackie Kennedy's white gloved hand is holding on to JFK.

I'm just curious. How long has this nebula in that Altgens been an issue. How much stuff needs to go back to basics in the sense of a complex derivative possibly has as paes of its foundation a fundamental flaw. What does it change/mean?

Actually, it changes very little. For some thirty or forty years, it was obvious that the windshield had not been penetrated by a bullet although it had been hit by a bullet fragment from the rear. At some point, David Lifton became interested in the issue because his body alteration theory was sympathetic to any claim of windshield alteration. But David never thought the "spiral nebula" thing had anything to it. Actually, it may have been Fetzer who first gave currency to the notion back in 2000 when he published Doug Weldon's article in one of his books. He published a copy of Altgens #6 and circled the "spiral nebula" region of the windshield as "Circle 1." Fetzer's caption for the photograph ran: "The Altgens photograph. Circle 1. The apparent through-and-through hole in the windshield..."

That's typical of Fetzer to illustrate arguments with unqualified captions that turn out to be fictitious. Apparently, Doug Weldon himself is staying far away from the claim since he won't say anything about it.

So once again we've used up a fair amount of energy and time debunking something that apparently grew still-born from Fetzer's imagination. It won't be the first time... and probably not the last... that this kind of effort has proved necessary.

Josiah Thompson

Wasn't the 'spiral nebulae' concept from another researcher originally? Seems to me there was something about it in Fetzer's video program.

Pam I believe on this thread we found two cracks and maybe they are from the inside, Jack White blew up the one to the right of the rear mirror but there is a bigger one to the right of that which is highlighted by the ladies bag in the Background.

I always suspicious of why the photographer, Algens and his wife were found dead about the same time in their Dallas home, but he must have noticed two holes or inside cracks also.

Two cracks or holes blows the Single bullet theory.

Jim

I am back from exile. Here is how I see the hole in the windshield in Altgens.

Attached thumbnail(s)

Jack

---------------

Good one Jack, and the placement is the same as the “official Photo" of the damaged windshield. Too close for just lucky coincidence.

Maybe these Spiral nebulas or Galaxies wouldn’t show up at all in the Altgens photo if it wasn’t for the dark background of the boy’s head and the ladies bag on the right.

But it just occurred to me that it doesn’t matter if it is a hole or damage from the inside because this was before the exploding head shot that WC apologists claim caused any damage, holes, and dents in the inside, even on the chrome inside the windshield frame.

This was taken after the "Magic Bullet" and before the exploding headshot...

This is evidence of more shots whether or not there are any holes which there maybe two hole Nebulas or damage now including the chrome.

I never knew Doug but His work has given me more insight on the little things that we miss.

Take Care, Jack and all our folks for justice and lets demand they free the files and let the Truth Roll.

Thanks Bill,

I haven't seen the Phil Ochs movie yet and I didn't sign a release because I got the hint that my info on why he hung himself and our witnessing parts of the Coup in Texas was censored... but I hear they put me in there about the general stuff anyway.

It seems nobody knows if David Ferrie had tons of freckles, because if he did not then the Clown looking guy who pointed out George Bush SR on the Shadow Chartered Bus near Houston, could have been a fake David Ferrie. and that would not surprise me too much.

If anyone knows, please let me know, the suspense is killing me.

We'll see.

love folk, Jim

Wow, I didn't know about all these back doors... amazing how much has been ignored and forgotten and this was from 64.

thanks

Thanks Bernice I just read the account of officer Mooney who said the power to the Book Depository building was cut off before the elevator hit the 2nd floor. They also had to order search lights to see in the dark.

This was right after he told a "civilian" to not let anyone in or out of the back door shipping dock.

BILL HERE IS A LINK TO THE BOOK.

http://tiny.cc/vcf2e

e

your wecome jim, yes the fire dept took in search ights up to the 6th floor, all they had were single bulbs hanging from the ceiling at that time...also you might be interested in this info, there were 4 separate doors exiting the tsbd ...take care...b

The Other Witnesses

By George and Patricia Nash

The New Leader, 12 October 1964, pages 6–9

<P class=yiv832301038yiv1869975492MsoNormal> <P class=yiv832301038yiv1869975492MsoNormal> The Report mentions that “the front door” and “the rear door” of the Depository were guarded from about six minutes after the shooting. What it omits, however, is that there were four separate “rear doors,” all of which were open and only one of which was guarded. There are two loading platforms, a customer’s door and a rail entry. No one guarding any of these doors could see any of the others. This conceivably might be relevant to a question of whether Oswald acted alone. As Shelley told us, “Any one of a thousand different people could have entered or left the building and nobody would have known it.” http://www.kenrahn.com/jfk/history/wc_period/reactions_to_warren_report/support_from_center/The_other_witnesses--Nashes.html