Jim Glover
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Posts posted by Jim Glover
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In the theatre, the "cool and collected" Oswald.... LOST IT !
Although I do now believe Oswald to be the Tippitt killer, I believe him to have been a "DUPED participant" in a plot which he believed was to merely "scare or force" President Kennedy to take certain actions which were being demanded by the "empowered hidden government".
I feel that as the nitrate tests indicated, that LHO fired a pistol but "No Rifle" on 11/22/63.
I feel that Lee was both a Patsy and a Cop Killer... but not a Presidential assassin.
Charles Black
Hi Charles,
I talked to Butch Burrows in 93, who was the usher in the Texas Theatre and he told me that the Oswald that was shot by Ruby came to the movie being driven by a Volkswagon.
He also said that police were taking a taller looking oswald out the side door as the shorter Oswald was taken out the front.
From my readings, I thought that Oswald failed the Nitrate tests...negative.
could you explain where that evidence was found?
I wonder how a test could determine if the gunpowder found on Oswald , if so, was from shooting a rifle or a Pistol?
Jim
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In the theatre, the "cool and collected" Oswald.... LOST IT !
Although I do now believe Oswald to be the Tippitt killer, I believe him to have been a "DUPED participant" in a plot which he believed was to merely "scare or force" President Kennedy to take certain actions which were being demanded by the "empowered hidden government".
I feel that as the nitrate tests indicated, that LHO fired a pistol but "No Rifle" on 11/22/63.
I feel that Lee was both a Patsy and a Cop Killer... but not a Presidential assassin.
Charles Black
Hi Charles,
I talked to Butch Burrows in 93, who was the usher in the Texas Theatre and he told me that the Oswald that was shot by Ruby came to the movie being driven by a Volkswagon.
He also said that police were taking a taller looking oswald out the side door as the shorter Oswald was taken out the front.
From my readings, I thought that Oswald failed the Nitrate tests...negative.
could you explain where that evidence was found?
I wonder how a test could determine if the gunpowder found on Oswald , if so, was from shooting a rifle or a Pistol?
Jim
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It is urgent, that JFK Researchers expose such powerful socio/religious/politico
combinations!"[/color]
How are you, Harry? And, so right you are!
Is it safe to lump the John Birchers' in with them, or am I just whistling down a well?
Plus, isn't obvious how the theory of "Separation of Church and State" never seemed to pertain to these privileged
classes, who in reality never amounted to anything more than a bunch of holy-rollers? Talk about Islamic fundamentalists,
these Christian guys are just as deadly.
Hi, Terry
Am in great shape as always, how are you doing?
Cant say whats safe, but the Birch Society 'is' lumped in with 'them' politically wise as an invention of, and subversive political extention by 'them'.
{see Forum Index re; Harry J.Dean}
Until later,always nice to talk with you Terry.
Harry
Hi Harry,
Maybe you or someone can help me out.
I remember seeing somewhere or reading about some religious material found by the 6th floor spinpers nest.
Is it just my imagination again?
Now i just found out there is an oswald rifle for eachh of the 3 Oswalds...same serial numbers but different rifles...
and you thought the "Shell Game" was far out!
back to the revolution,
Jim
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Sure they could have chopped him in the neck also ....Wendy knew about the other incident somehow but they all could be true. Wendy died of cancer.
Jim
******************************************************
Phil also told about how he wrote Crucifixion about JFK WHILE HE WAS IN ENGLAND AND TALKED WITH SOME FOLKS WHO TOLD HIM THAT IT WAS AN ANCIENT SACRIFICIAL RITUAL TO KILL THE BEST!
Which reminds me of where I read many years ago how the Dallas police found a religious pamphlet next to the Snipers nest that said something about the redemption of Jesus and other weird stuff.Jim
Maybe Gary Mack could tell me. Was there any religious/occult material found near the "Sniper's Nest," as stated above?
Kathy
Maybe He can.
He won't reply to me anymore.
Gary seems to promote stories (Badge man) ect and then acts like the truth teller in debunking what he originally promoted.
His latest is that the crowd that ran towards the Grassy Knoll were chasing echos of shots from his now 6th Floor Museum.
I guess that leaves out the possibility of the Badge Man shooting... he can't have it both ways in my way of thinking.
Echos need something to bounce off of and everyone knows the difference of the source of sound and Echos except folks who are bull*%%## Us.
Jim
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Sure they could have chopped him in the neck also ....Wendy knew about the other incident somehow but they all could be true. Wendy died of cancer.
I just remembered the first words of the special version Phil sang in Chicago in reply to my request to say something about Dallas, was: "The Golden Idol is the King, I was at his crowning
My life just flashed before my eyes, I must be Drowning."
I don't think he would be thinking of his death in a song about Elvis.
Or why he would need a one way ticket home from an Elvis Concert.
Jim
******************************************************
Is that a song about Elvis? It could be about President Kennedy.
Kathy
I think it really is about his resentment and confusion about being set up in Dallas.
During that second set in Chicago Phil also told about how he wrote Crucifixion about JFK WHILE HE WAS IN ENGLAND AND TALKED WITH SOME FOLKS WHO TOLD HIM THAT IT WAS AN ANCIENT SACRIFICIAL RITUAL TO KILL THE BEST!
Which reminds me of where I read many years ago how the Dallas police found a religious pamphlet next to the Snipers nest that said something about the redemption of Jesus and other weird stuff.
Phil's rationalization for our predicament was that it was some kind of mysterious thing...but he also said that a Para Military squad did it...he was confused and he was compromised.
I think they thought that I would keep quiet because any investigation would reveal that my dad worked with the CPUSA.
They are not as smart as we sometimes think they are.
Jim
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Middle-Eastern and Moslem friends are leaving.....many non-Muslims [myself included] felt the better part of valor and sanity/survival involved being outside for now. Land of peace and happiness - or opportunity and dignity it is for fewer and fewer and fewer by the day....but I digress....
I'd suggest you contact Bob Fass via email trough WBAI radio in NYC and get the name and contact for the protest singer who knew Phil and you likely know and ask him where he got his info on the attack. Am I correct that Phil thought it was a targeted attack and not a random mugging of a tourist? There have been so many of those types of things [yes, all the way up to murder] to send a 'message'....the message is always the same..shut-up, be a sheep, follow the 'program' of the corporation-masters, don't think for yourself, don't questions and don't tell anything not officially branded [word chosen on purpose by me] the 'truth', stay in line little person - or else! Sadly, like a third-rate old-time gangster movie "The Mr. Big told Bugsy and me to teach you a lesson...."
Peter,
Thanks for the suggestion to contact Bob Fass. It has been the late 60's since I talked with him.
Well Just like what Happened to my friend Rusty it is safer for them to terrorize, than eliminate witnesses....but they did both didn't they?
They had us pretty scared for a long time....I think they are now scared of their own methods.
Phil made a point to me about the fact that 3 men jumped him and strangled him and took his only means of self defense, his knife.
Sure they could have chopped him in the neck also ....Wendy knew about the other incident somehow but they all could be true. Wendy died of cancer.
I just remembered the first words of the special version Phil sang in Chicago in reply to my request to say something about Dallas, was: "The Golden Idol is the King, I was at his crowning
My life just flashed before my eyes, I must be Drowning."
I don't think he would be thinking of his death in a song about Elvis.
Or why he would need a one way ticket home from an Elvis Concert.
Jim
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[quote name='Myra Bronstein' post='106921' date='Jun 22 2007, 05:54 PM'
by chance on www.WBAI.org today on Bob Fass' show he had a friend of Ochs telling that it was NOT a strangulation - but a chop to the vocal cord area of his neck and that Phil considered it an attack on his means of making a living.
Thank you, Peter, for letting people know there is a method these spies will use -- karate chop. You said Phil Ochs felt he was hit by that to the throat so he wouldn't be able to sing anymore. I heard this rumor years ago and never looked into it: Bob Dylan's career slid after a motorcycle accident in which his throat was injured. After that, his singing got real weird.
Kathy
Hi Kathy,
Psew I am glad that there is a good chance that Lee Odum, Odom if that is his real name, is alive and well.
amazing that after all the murders there are still some of us around who have pieces of the puzzle.
Getting back to my old friend Phil Ochs.
He didn't mention Karate chops but can someone who might have passed out remember everything?
I mean if someone like a doctor examined Phil and said it was a chop I don't think Phil would have held that bit of spectacular adventure out of the pictrue that he told me and authhors, like Marc Elliot I would assume.
But yes there will always be mysteries about these things and that is cool with me because once I know all the answers, I will really be useless and nobody would want to to even talk to me.
Our friend Wendy Winstead told me that he damaged his chords from trying to hang is self from a balcony but the whatever he used for a rope ...broke,,,So that is all I can tell ya and you all get to decide what it all means for yourselves.
I am glad to be able to share these memories with you ...this is great therapy for my stress in these memories....I mean we just learned that the photogrpher who took the best picture of JFK bein hit in the throat is found dead with his wife in Dallas of Carbon Monixcide......and what he told the WC was not what the cover-up wanted you to ever know.
Gotta go now at the Mosque for a going away party for Nahla and her wonderful family.
They are tired of Bush's persecution and will go to live in Egypt in there search for peace and happiness.
Love, Jim
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I got the impression from watching US vs John Lennon
(http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=777046699234389996&q=The+U.S.+versus+John+Lennon)
that towards the end Lennon and Ono felt used and mistreated by Rubin.
Apparently Hoffman & Rubin committed Lennon & Ono to protesting at the Republican National Convention (in Fla?) at a time when Lennon/Ono were realizing that their lives were in danger from their political outspokenness, and they refused to be manipulated into going to the convention.
John expressed anger about it on Mike Douglas's show, and Yoko talked about it in footage near the end of the movie.
Yes Myra,
I always felt manipulated by the Yippies too.
Our manager got us booked into Chicago during the convention and we heard by the grapevine that there would be violence.
Was the CIA and FBI manipulating the movement?
That was their Job!
I remember about 4 serious guys came to our apartment at 55 leroy in the village while Jean was out (the typical pattern) and told me that Kissinger was paying Phil.
I knew that Phil was doing secret work for some outfit so what could I say?
Years later, at Phil's place in LA after his friend who picked me at the airport and briefed me about the Hollywood connection to JFK, and showed me a photo of a man who looked like Lee on the Bus tour as we reached Dallas on the way to Key West, (the man was said to be driving the station wagon that picked up one of the Oswalds) and like a fool I have been looking for him ever since, I told Phil that "some guys said you were working for Kissinger".
Phil was mad and told me he was working for an up and coming general in the Air Force....as if Kissinger would be out of the Loop.
Phil was deluding himself that he was working for the Good Guys and I think that his general friend also thought that too...goes to show you how gullible we get when we hope we are doin good.
I was having lunch at the Latin Restaurant yesterday (Family Jewels day) and ordered my usual Half Cuban with soup and I hears a loud banging from some men at the table behind and to my left but I didn't turn around to look as I was reading and when they left I noticed that the tallest one sure looks a lot like Lee Odom or Odum (could be an alias) that i saw on the Bus around Dallas and also at the Brandon Library 1990, when My girl friend who's Dad was CIA was getting a book out about Felix Rodrigus. This look a like had grey hair by now and his hook nose was even longer. I watched as they left and outside a younger man gave him a kiss on the cheek and they got in a car and left and later one of the men he was with walked by the window and was wearing some kind of big earpiece in his right ear.
It could have been Lee or his double, but I am facinated by it all.
They always seem to come to me.
Jim
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"Jerry Rubin ... Somewhat of a friend to John Lennon." ? - John describes meeting Jerry with some trepidation. In a short time, he recognised, what he already knew in principle, that the persona created by the Media is frequently different from the truth, and saw in Jerry a true artist, Jerry responded that he saw in John a true revolutionary. Jerry, and other people John and Yoko met in NY were a significant part of John 'falling in love' with NYC.
"Peter, I always wondered about the death of the photographer James Altgens because he and his wife were found dead in their house. I haven't found anything about the autopsy but from an article I saved from St Pete times DEC 15, 1995.
"the Bodies of Mr Altgens and his wife Clara, were found Tuesday at their home in Dallas, according to an employee of Sparkman-Hillcrest Funeral Home. Autopsies were ordered and toxicology tests were under way....said Laurie Nazzreno of the Dallas County medical examiners office" "
I understand the verdict was carbon monoxide poisoning. (If found in the house and not in a car, there are precedents in murder where a hose is introduced through an opening into a closed room like a bed room for example.)
http://hyderabadin.org/wiki-Bob_Dylan
"By 1963, Dylan and Baez were both prominent in the civil rights movement, singing together at rallies including the March on Washington where Martin Luther King, Jr. gave his "I have a dream" speech.Dylan performed "Only a Pawn in their Game" and "When the Ship Comes In"... His next album, "The Times They Are a-Changin", reflected a more sophisticated, politicized and cynical Dylan...The Brechtian-influenced "The Lonesome Death of Hattie Carroll" describes a young socialite's killing of a hotel maid. The song never explicitly mentions race, but many sources wrote it leaves no doubt that the killer is white, the victim black....
By the end of 1963, Dylan felt both manipulated and constrained by the folk-protest movement. Accepting the "Tom Paine Award" from the National Emergency Civil Liberties Committee at a ceremony shortly after the assassination of John F. Kennedy, a drunken, rambling Dylan questioned the role of the committee, insulted its members as old and balding, and claimed to see something of himself (and of every man) in assassin Lee Harvey Oswald..."
"You said you'd never compromise
With the mystery tramp, but now you realize
He's not selling any alibis
As you stare into the vacuum of his eyes
And ask him do you want to make a deal?"
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Thanks John, you are jogging my memories.
I always wondered if Phil told Dylan the whole story. I wonder if Phil and Dylan's first manager, Albert Grossman knew because he was his manager when Phil went to Dallas.
Here is what I recently found and sent to John Simkin that makes me wonder even more.
"I just found something I forgot about Phil....Al Grossman was his earlyest manager...Phil used to say Grossman was the smartest and he was in awe and kind of feared Grossman in the sense that Phil got nervous in his presence.
Now a few weeks ago when I was trying to pin down exactly where the first Hootenanny tour bus was when JFK was shot....One of the singers in the group the Yaghtsmen said "the gig in Dallas was cancelled Just before we left LA".
That made me think maybe I was not the only one who had pre knowledge...so when I got back the records from the library at SMU in Dallas, an early summer article said Peter Paul and Mary will be appearing Nov 22.
So when I followed up on that I thought "OK JFK was killed and then there should be an announcement that due to the Assassination, the Gig was cancelled.
But I found out that was not the case.
As late as Nov 8th there was an announcement that the date was now Nov 23 and then another that that gig was cancelled due to the Assassination...Strange that the concert only had a two week notice!
PP&M were big stars and not on our Little star Tour which was advertised in Corpus Christie comming on Nov 5th as being possibly the same as the TV Show.....There was a Folk scare in the Month before JFK was killed in that modern Folk music was goin to be in Texas and Southern colleges for the first time.
The FBI mentions in the beginning of Phil Och's files that Folk singers and subversives were the same bunch.
This does not prove anything but if Phil and I knew and the man who talked me into going on the Hootenanny tour knew that JfK was going to be killed even if He only knew because I told him ..but he did say "I know and that is why we want you to go...but don't write anything down or interfere because it is too dangerous"
Well, It seems that the record shows to me anyway that there is now circumstantial evidence that Albert Grossman as well as others in Show biz would have heard about the rumor which turned out to be true.
Another interesting thing is that Jim and Jean (me and my ex wife) were not listed as being on the Tour at all....I guess if we had to be taken care of, who would know we were anywhere at the time."
************
When we were Back at Ohio State, Phil would read me articles about the defection of Lee Harvey Oswald and I would say "yes I have thought of goin to Russia too".
Just like "the Family Jewels" released yesterday by the CIA, Phil told me that the CIA would assassinate Castro. I didn't think they could actually do it.. we bet 5 bucks on that but Phil never paid me on that one. I don't even think that Phil thought for sure that Oswald was a real Defector...I Didn't.
Phil and Sam Hood at the GasLight were kind of excited when they read that someone took a pot shot at General Walker in Dallas because it was the first time in history that a left winger (we supposed) showed some balls. Ruth Pain thinks this proves Oswald shot JFK, but the police report waas that there were two other men with a car .
Oswald didn't drive, remember? and how is he gonna get his rifle back home...on a bus?
Here is a letter I just got from a friend from Ohio State about RFK and JFK....He also was Physically attacked for his research.
They hit him on the head with a brick and told him to get out of DC.
"Jim:
It's your old friend Rusty from Columbus. If you remember, I told you about the RFK assassination - Bobby had always suspected a combination of the Mafia, Cuban exiles and ex-CIA due to Bobby's crackdown on the Mafia and the failed Cuban expedition. He had mentioned to someone that the first thing he was going to do once elected was open an investigation - next thing you know he's gone. It was widely accepted in Washington and well known when I worked for Mark Lane. Nothing really new.
Rusty"
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I guess there are no real secrets anymore.
I hope somebody tells me something in the Family Jewels that we didn't already know when it was goin down.
Jim
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Thanks Jim.
What, if anything, did Phil change about his life/career/songwriting/performing after he got the psy-ops message of the attack? Are you aware of other such attacks on prominent artists of the era?
I'm starting to understand the true nature of the CIA's Operation CHAOS (for a while in conjunction with the FBI's COINTELPRO), and leaning towards believing that it targeted singers and songwriters. Then again I've long been convinced that the gov't murdered John Lennon so I don't need much convincing.
June 16 - 18: The Monterey International Pop Music Festival takes place. Over 200,000 people attend. It is often regarded as the precursor to Woodstock. It likely alarms both the FBI & the CIA. David Crosby, of the Byrds, tells the crowd that the Warren Report is a lie & that JFK was killed by many guns in a conspiracy. He then dedicates a song, "He Was a Friend of Mine," to him.
August: LBJ dramatically boosts CIA's illegal spying on US citizens, ongoing since 1959, so he can keep tabs on anti-war activists. The program will soon be named Operation CHAOS.
FBI's COINTELPRO program is ongoing at that point.
Three "Radicals" have slipped our memories here. Abbie Hoffman, dying from an overdose of phenolbarbital. Jerry Rubin dying while jaywalking. Somewhat of a friend to John Lennon. And then there's Hunter Thompson, supposedly shooting himself in the head. Thompson wrote a book about the Hell's Angels. In his last year, some people believe he witnessed or filmed a human sacrifice in Bohemian Grove, a place where certain politicians more or less turn their soul over to the devil and undergo the burning of their consciences.
And about Sal Mineo -- he was gay. That could have played a part. I have never been convinced that the black man whom they blamed, really killed Sal Mineo.
Other journalists: Dorothy Kilgallen, dead from mixing sleeping pills and alcohol. Was writing a book about the Assassination conspiracy. Irv Kupcinet -- questioned a mob member about Jack Ruby, as soon as he saw Ruby shoot Oswald. Four days later Irv's daughter was murdered by compression of her left carotid artery, or by a karate chop. Jim Koethe -- also killed by karate chop. He was a reporter and gay and may have known too much about Ruby.
Kathy
...ah 'good old' Op CHAOS...still ongoing. Hoffman [if I remember correctly] had someone mess around wiht his master brake valve of his car and a nearly fatal crash before he died 'otherwise' though not depressed. Kilgallan was 99% murdered after interview with Ruby and she gave notes to a friend who died shortly there after. I remember SDS meetings and others full of provocateurs, creeps, spooks, and worse.....The list is endless, Jessica Savitch, Karen Silkwood, disruption of many many groups and movements, demos, MOVE, Back Panthers, more by the truckload, tampering with and promotion of drugs, promoting violence in otherwise peacfull groups and setting them up by 'violent' goon plants and false evidence...still goes on in Enviornmental and animal rights and peace groups. I could go on all day listing Cassalero and others who all too mysteriously and conveniently died during investigations that someone didn't want known. I know JFK researchers who died mysteriously too and am working on this angle just now.
Peter, I always wondered about the death of the photographer James Altgens because he and his wife were found dead in their house.
I haven't found anything about the autopsy but from an article I saved from St Pete times DEC 15, 1995.
"the Bodies of Mr Altgens and his wife Clara, were found Tuesday at their home in Dallas, according to an employee of Sparkman-Hillcrest Funeral Home. Autopsies were ordered and toxicology tests were under way....said Laurie Nazzreno of the Dallas County medical examiners office"
I guess it may have been a coincidence that they were found dead together but I wonder...
Phil's voice was much lower after he told me he was strangled in Africa and when he played the Quiet knight in Chicago around 74 I asked him while we were shooting pool in the back room with Arlo and Bob Gibson if he would say anything about bein in Dallas in 63 and he said "listen to my second set".
I was disappointed because I didn't hear him say anything concrete but when I heard a tape of the show a few years ago, it seems he was hinting at the trip in a special version of the song called "one Way ticket home". In that version he does not sing about the king Elvis which is what everybody thinks the song is about but he just sings I was there at the crowning. but I kinda got the analogy just like Crusifixion is about the crown of thorns of Jesus "King of the Jews".
But hear are the lyrics for commercial use but in the version he sang at the Quiet knight there is no Elvis at all and the king is the question.
When I read in the Warren report about a witness at the Texas Theater he tells about a man who was there that just looked at him but said nothing and I wonder maybe they dropped Phil off there along with two Oswalds.
this is ike the version he sang in Chicago except he does not mention Elvis at all who one would think is the subject
of the song but without Elvis it could be about Camelot.
I'd like a one-way ticket home, ticket home
Em A D D
Where I can watch television, talk on the telephone
Em A D
But every town I wander there's a billboard on a throne
A7
Ticket home
D
I want a ticket home
Em A D G
Does anybody know my name, or recognize my face
Em A D G
I must have come from somewhere, but I can't recall the place
Em A D G
they dropped me at the matinee, they left without a trace
A7
Ticket home
D
I want a ticket home
G D
Elvis Presley is the king, I was at his crowning
E G A
My life just flashed before my eyes, I must be drowning
Seems like only yesterday I climbed aboard the plane
Raping distance in the skies, while diving in champagne
I would be in exile now, but everywhere's the same
Ticket home
I want a ticket home
Elvis Presley is the king, I was at his crowning
My life just flashed before my eyes, I must be drowning
Seems like only yesterday I climbed aboard the plane
Raping distance in the sky, while diving in champagne
I would be in exile now, but everywhere's the same
Ticket home
I want a ticket home
So after what happened to Bobby, he was not about to give more than hints just like Crucifixion was the code for JFK, The "Bay of Pigs" was Nixon's code for JFK during Watergate.
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...
The police Chiief in LA is CIA, Sirhan's hynotist is CIA contract, the Lady in the Polka dot dress is KKK with Mob, FBI connections and others like every weirdo in the war on Hippies.
What do you know about the lady in the polka dot dress Jim?
I didn't think anything was known about her.
I don't have any personal knowledge of the RFK case, I found the above info on googleing it so today I tried again http://www.google.com/search?client=safari...-8&oe=UTF-8
Actually I was relived that the description did not match Jean's. Also Jean and Phil were well enough known to have been recognized I am sure. forgot to record the articles but there maybe more on "Girl" instead of Lady in Polka dot dress.
I always had this in my mind that Jean had a polka dot dress....but I am not sure. And she would not want to hurt RFK anymore than Phil or I would.
since we were all set up for the JFK assassination in one form or another, for the purpose of confusion it is possible that there were other ladies in Polka dot dresses... and one report said that there were others in polka dot dresses...don't know which though....But I can imagine certain ladies in LA hiding their polka dot dresses after that report came out. Maybe Hoover had one too.
Just talked to Jean and she was not at the Ambassador and was surprised to learn about the new info on RFK's secret investigation in "Brothers" and that Phil was working with his campaign for president. She does think that she also had a Polka dot dress though.... Glad I got that cleared up.
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Yes Kathy....they definatly did not like us.
I was just tryin to find where I heard Phil singin for John Lennon in a motel room during benifit for John Sinclear.
He was busted for pot.
Actually Phil and I had a big disagreement about that. I am for decriminalization. the drug War is just another way to fund the chaos.
Phil thought that John Lennon was a bad influenece on the movement because Nixon was making us out to be just a bunch of pot heads...
I wonder now which is more dangerous...then or now?
What am I thinking! there is only Now and foreever.
I could post scary Documents like northwoods like how the Joint Chiefs and all the branches were trying to come up with many ways to make it look like Cuba started a confrontation so that they could invade Cuba full scale right under JFK's nose.
OK. I talked me into it if you are curious.
http://www.thedossier.ukonline.co.uk/Scann...0NORTHWOODS.pdf
But all that is history Folks....
This is now.
I just had to send a fellow Peace activist from here in Florida this letter:
"Hi Sami,
We were both at Peace rallies in Tampa and I was that Folk singer leading "We shall free Sami" out side the Jail House ...Man that was a big House.
As a fellow freedom fighter and as a Jew who has been through many tests where I survived also, I think you are aware that you really have won.
Your whole family and even all the world has shared your torture by this war criminal George Bush.
You and your great family have not only survived but you are triumphant and will be victims no longer. I think like our shared forefather Abraham, Your family will be champions and leaders for a new hope of peace and justice in the world.
I think the good folks of Egypt will see your wisdom and suffering as new opportunity for our little planet.
I hope we can keep in touch because you are really free now....We have won and our tormentor who has tormented our little planet well have to account some day.
God is Great!
Hope we can meet some day and I'll pay for the drinks...
Jim"
PS we saw the movie "US verses Sami Al Arian" and it blew us away.
Best wishes, Jim
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Did you know that a Cuban Exile who survived the Bay of Pigs was on guard duty the night John Lennon was killed? In Cuba he was known as San Jenis. When he was at the Dakota, he went by the name Jose Perdomo. A member of this forum told me Perdomo was kept on to do little CIA jobs.
What a strange coincidence.
Kathy
Wow Kathy, I should have guessed eh?
I just looked up the RFK case cause I figured since Phil was workin for him he would probably have been at the Ambassador to celebrate Roberts big victory and the last Words Robert said were "on to Chicago!". Well now I know why Phil put on his tomestone record cover "Died in Chicago"
The police Chiief in LA is CIA, Sirhan's hynotist is CIA contract, the Lady in the Polka dot dress is KKK with Mob, FBI connections and others like every weirdo in the war on Hippies.
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Thanks Jim.
What, if anything, did Phil change about his life/career/songwriting/performing after he got the psy-ops message of the attack? Are you aware of other such attacks on prominent artists of the era?
I'm starting to understand the true nature of the CIA's Operation CHAOS (for a while in conjunction with the FBI's COINTELPRO), and leaning towards believing that it targeted singers and songwriters. Then again I've long been convinced that the gov't murdered John Lennon so I don't need much convincing.
June 16 - 18: The Monterey International Pop Music Festival takes place. Over 200,000 people attend. It is often regarded as the precursor to Woodstock. It likely alarms both the FBI & the CIA. David Crosby, of the Byrds, tells the crowd that the Warren Report is a lie & that JFK was killed by many guns in a conspiracy. He then dedicates a song, "He Was a Friend of Mine," to him.
August: LBJ dramatically boosts CIA's illegal spying on US citizens, ongoing since 1959, so he can keep tabs on anti-war activists. The program will soon be named Operation CHAOS.
FBI's COINTELPRO program is ongoing at that point.
Three "Radicals" have slipped our memories here. Abbie Hoffman, dying from an overdose of phenolbarbital. Jerry Rubin dying while jaywalking. Somewhat of a friend to John Lennon. And then there's Hunter Thompson, supposedly shooting himself in the head. Thompson wrote a book about the Hell's Angels. In his last year, some people believe he witnessed or filmed a human sacrifice in Bohemian Grove, a place where certain politicians more or less turn their soul over to the devil and undergo the burning of their consciences.
And about Sal Mineo -- he was gay. That could have played a part. I have never been convinced that the black man whom they blamed, really killed Sal Mineo.
Other journalists: Dorothy Kilgallen, dead from mixing sleeping pills and alcohol. Was writing a book about the Assassination conspiracy. Irv Kupcinet -- questioned a mob member about Jack Ruby, as soon as he saw Ruby shoot Oswald. Four days later Irv's daughter was murdered by compression of her left carotid artery, or by a karate chop. Jim Koethe -- also killed by karate chop. He was a reporter and gay and may have known too much about Ruby.
Kathy
Wow Kathy, You have studied this deeper than I have. Phil's sister Sonny told me that Jerry Rubin was the last of his old friends to see Phil.
I did not know that Jerry is gone too. Sorry to hear that.
I have always suspected that the same forces took John Lennon away too.
Yoko blames herself for goin out to Eat when they were tired but The Assassin would have stalked until his program was complete.
Most of us Folk singers in the US and Canada knew it was a plot...now we are past the dots and connecting the Plots!
When Phil told me about him being strangled it shook me up too.
I have been worked on in like fashion several times but I don't feel like talking about it right now.
The main thing to realize is when they are scaring you (that is why we call them Spooks!) We are lucky because that means they are too scared themselves to cross the line because someone can always be spyin on them.
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Phil offers support to Bobby:
http://www.mdah.state.ms.us/arlib/contents...35|1|1|1|16353|
Song by Phil in MSC files:
"..if you drag her muddy waters
nameless bodies you will find..."
(image: po01)
Thanks John for that amazing doc.
so by April, Phil is supporting Bobby..like they are gonna be brothers.
And Here the Huac, which Ironically RFK got his start workin for, are still tryin to keep the Lincoln Brigade that Hemingway wrote about the "Premature Fascists" on the enemies list. The Lincoln Brigade had a lots of marxists in the ranks as well as other freedom fighters who knew they had to stop the Fascists that Hitler Mousillini and Henry Ford and Prescott Bush were backing with big arms and banking deals.
I found your thread on the hidden meaning of Hidell....very interesting.
we know that Dulles had a program of false defectors and legends....I doubt that Lee ever met his Double...He would have ran back to Russia.
Thanks, Jim
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Is this the Phil Ochs you're talking about?
"Phil Ochs just happened to be touring Africa when a native "robber" jumped after him and cut his throat so that it affected his singing? The most political symbol of protest against the war in Vietnam, songwriter for Bob Dylan, Joan Baez, and many others, is selected from millions of U.S. tourists for assault to his vocal chords."
http://www.maebrussell.com/Mae%20Brussell%...on%20Chaos.html
I am so glad you brought this up Myra,
Yes there is only one Phil Ochs in this world.
The writers got it wrong because Phil told me he was jumped and strangled but the thing that freaked him out the most was that they did not take his money or wallet or passport...only his knife.
That my dear is a psy ops message.
Phil got it.
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Kathy
I'm not convinced it's him either. Whereas the photo of the man in front of the TSBD really looks like him.
Well Kathy,
You may be right...The thing that amazed me about the one in front of the TBDB is it showed the torpedo shape of George's head...even from the side and the characteristic way he has his hands in his pockets...his childhood picture where he looks like actor Brandon Dedwilde in Shane.
I think the research community were hiding this one from me cause everybody including the FBI knew I was looking for him.
I still want the identity of both for history.
I tried to compare the two photos of the Bush Doubles in Dealy and Parkland and well somebody tell me if they are different..
I mean George tells the FBI he is on his way to Dallas and I don't think he had time to change his clothes.. it is a short hop from Dealy to Parkland.
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Sorry, I misquoted Ed Saunders above.
They got together at RFK's Senate Office which now I am sure that He would think was bugged.
Jim, you don't by any chance mean Ed Sanders of the Fugs, do you?
Ed's book on Manson was far superior to Bugliosi's. He actually did some deep investigative work - unlike Bugliosi who merely presented what he needed to present as a prosecutor... that is, a conviction didn't require deep background work.
I bet Ed could write a better book on the assassination, too.
Yes Greg, I asked the same question to my friend Graig who found it and he didn't think it was the Fugs's Ed.
But I know this article is right on because he describes Phil better than any writer so far.
The Fugs Ed had a crush on Jean at the Cafe A go go....in the Village.
I picked up Charlie Manson and two of his girl friends in my Volkswagen bus.
It was when they were casing out our little neighborhood...Topanga Canyon.
I was lucky they got out and that I did not tell him where I lived but not before he told me his whole life story...in prison and about his new record being produced by the Beach Boys.....
I've had a few close calls.
Bugliosi is a stooge for the cover-up.
But I think we can turn him in the end.
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Sorry, I misquoted Ed Saunders above.
They got together at RFK's Senate Office which now I am sure that He would think was bugged.
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Jim Glover :
Do you think Phil Ochs was murdered or actually killed himself? I remember he died by hanging.
I have read recently, possibly on this website, that some oil barons and Mob types, were tricked into being in and around Dealey Plaza that awful day. Possibly to show it was a conspiracy, so everyone involved better shut up, they've been photographed. Maybe that's how Phil Ochs got tricked into being there.
How you describe your childhood -- it sounds like the Hitler Youth, kids squealing on their parents for a political cause they don't understand.
Kathy
Sure Kathy,
I just discovered this thread and I think I tried to answer some questions at http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...10194&st=15
It was kiind of like Hitler Youth because here I was in School learning about how bad Communist countries are because they have kids spying on their parents and here George Bush who thinks it will help him be president asks me to spy on my folks.
Screw him.....i decided to keep looking for answers....it has been painful but I am overcoming it all now by not trying to forget like our system tells us to do.
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Phil offers support to Bobby:
http://www.mdah.state.ms.us/arlib/contents...35|1|1|1|16353|
Song by Phil in MSC files:
"..if you drag her muddy waters
nameless bodies you will find..."
(image: po01)
Yes thanks John,
We now have record also that he met with Bobby and sang Cruxifixiion (JFK) twice ...Once on a plane which would be ideal to defeat Bugs and the article by Ed Saunders about at the convention.
I think Phil told Bobby that he was there and Bobby decided to keep it all secret until he won back the white House!
It still is gonna take a president to open it all up.
Jim
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Could also be Bill Moyers.
Funny but he looks shorter then Kucinich.
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Well I'll be... they do work and I got more of um too.
Phil wore the same jacket at newport 64.
Hi Jim,
Glad you started a new thread on this.
I didn't know Phil Ochs, but I think we were busted together in Chicago in '68 at the Democratic National Convention.
It was the last night of a week of demonstrations and riots, and those of us who were on McCarthy's national staff were sitting around the McCarthy rooms of the Conrad Hilton Hotel. Someone handed me a drink of whiskey and water and mentioned to me that it was Phil Ochs who was playing guitar and singing in the hall nearby.
About an hour later I laid down to sleep only to be awakened by a rush of Chicago police breaking heads with billy clubs in a celebrated raid that ended with a bunch of us under arrest. I was only 17 years old, a high school junior who later went to the University of Dayton, Ohio, where there was manditory ROTC for freshmen until discontinued the year I arrived.
The campus ROTC were notorious for being informants against radical agitators protesting the Vietnam war.
While I never crossed paths with Phil Ochs again, I believe it was him in Chicago, and was saddened when I learned he had died.
I am quite surprised that he was at Dealey Plaza too.
You say that he returned on a flight from Dallas with a cameramen who was returning to England?
Do you know the name of the cameramen and what became of his film?
Also, did you ever go to Newport?
Thanks for sharing your Phil Ochs stories,
Bill Kelly
Thanks Bill,
THat is great then you will like this article a fellow researcher, Craig in NYC, sent me and it tells about how Phil and you got busted in the windy City....While Jean and I were singin at the Quiet Knight on Wells street and Phil , Abby and Jerry came in to see us one night that wasn't so Quiet.....
http://www.bigbridge.org/issue9/ochsesanders.htm
I never went to Newport but Phil gave me his song books and stuff and the picture of him sittin under a tree stummun his guitar with his favorite jacket....was at Newport,,,,,I lost the little pop up that gave me your message but You know I have tried to find out about the photographer and it makes me kind of pissed.
I mean Phil wrote Crucifixion after he got back from England and told me it was too dangerous to talk about the JFK stuff that we knew but I wonder If he was also trying to find out where the cameraman...was that all he was? or ...You know...This stuff is still a mystery but my investigation is still alive...
So Please volunteer for the Folk Intelligence Bureau and viola....
I couldn't get any info from Bill Curtis but of course you can't get through to big stars anyway... the media is pretty controlled and just like Iraq they would be embarrassed but when they covered up JFK...now that was the start of the MO of lies of these guys in power now and the beat goes on.....
I'll just get back ...to the forum....but since it is all connected....Thanks for the questions
I asked for this didn't I?
But I believe the DVD of the men who killed Kennedy is a famous British film maker....I got that impression anyway.
Whew.....Jim
Hey...I got Beer!!!!
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Thanks for posting these pictures, Jim. At this time, I'm not convinced that it's George Bush Sr. I'd like others' opinions -- the photo experts.
Kathy
I would love any expert opinion or anyone who has seen TV images of Bush taken from behind.
Sinse I saw him that day along with two Dallas Police with the taller Oswald look a like, I was searching for him in the photos.
If I am wrong, that is fine because the truth is what I am after.
I just sent this to Gary Mack and I will let you all know if I get a reply:
-------------------
Hi Gary,
It has been a while but have you found out who the two look-a-likes for George Bush are Yet?
The name of the one standing with his hands in pockets in front of the TBSDB and the one I picked out at Parkland leaning on the police car?
And has anyone asked Bush about his call to the FBI and why he said "I am on my way to Dallas"?
Thanks, Jim
------------------------------
I made a mistake in a previous post when I wrote "a man gave me his card that had the Black Hand on it" was at the Quiet Knight in Chicago....It was the Earl Of Old Town in Chicago instead....both great Clubs.
Jim
"Jefferson Davis Tippitt"
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
Thanks Peter,
You are one of the few researchers who see missing piece...
In 93 the research community in Dallas just kiinda ignored us but we did a show about it at the Texas Theater and we got it on tape by professional engineers with the story told by Mr. Burrows....Yesssss.
I hope he is still with us.
I just called his old number but it is out of service.
I have his 93 address:
Butch and Maxine Burrows
2414 Arcady Ln
Lancaster TX 751355
So Folks, Please let me know if You find anythiing...Together we can crack this cover-up!
Jim
PS did you know that the Texas Theater was built by Howard Hughes?