Jonathan Cohen

5 hours ago, Pamela Brown said:

After 3 gospel albums, Bob abruptly switched to Infidels, a secular album.

You've got to be joking. "Abruptly switched" ? Two years between "Infidels" and his prior album equates to "abruptly" to you? Beyond that, there is a wealth of religious and biblical imagery/references on "Infidels," so it's hardly accurate to call it "secular." Do you believe Bob was just parroting a party line from his evil government overlords when he said in 1997 that "I find the religiosity and philosophy in the music. I don't find it anywhere else … I don't adhere to rabbis, preachers, evangelists, all of that. I've learned more from the songs than I've learned from any of this kind of entity."

Is nobody else on this forum willing to challenge the absolutely insane theory espoused here by Pamela Brown?

53 minutes ago, Pamela Brown said:

Your opinion. You are entitled. I think you are mistaken. 

Following your line of thinking, how do you explain Infidels?

"Explain" it how? It's an album. Of songs. And music. Do you think there are some kind of coded, propaganda messages in it designed to help kill foreign leaders? My mind is actually blown that you might believe something this absurd. 

52 minutes ago, Pamela Brown said:

What would you consider 'actual evidence'?

And BTW, I consider my statement an assertion...

What do you think of this article?

https://inbroaddaylight.wordpress.com/2021/05/17/what-if-someone-such-as-bob-dylan-is-an-experiment-an-hypothesis-for-an-alternate-reality/

 

I think it's ludicrous, paranoid drivel, and I'm surprised any rational person would take seriously the notion that Bob Dylan is some kind of government-programmed, propaganda-spewing automaton. Let me guess: were his Christian rock albums an attempt to confuse and de-politicize his baby boomer audience?

12 hours ago, Pamela Brown said:

That Bob has been involved in behind the scenes machinations which have had a connection to some assassinations, yes...

Can you back up this rather major claim with any actual evidence?

8 minutes ago, Pamela Brown said:

LBJ referenced a "Murder Inc in the Caribbean". I think he was talking about things happening at that time. 

And I think Bob Dylan has been involved in behind the scenes maneuvering that has resulted in MMF(s) since 1961.

Just so I'm clear, what exactly is it that you're implying here? That Bob Dylan has been involved in political assassinations?

3 hours ago, Andrew Prutsok said:

My guess would be Oswald was recognizeable on the steps in films of the turn from Houston on to Elm.

So they removed him from here but left him in other films of the same area? Smart conspirators, eh?

5 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

That's because you're not an engineer. R&D engineers are good at coming up with solutions to problems like that. As are inventors and experimenters of all kinds.

I have a simple idea at this very moment how I would go about doing what Chris suggests. I would try it and make adjustments if it didn't work out as expected.

Great. I would love to see your solution for how to fake a Polaroid so as to be undetectable from the original, utilizing only 1963 technology such as the exact type of camera owned by Mary Moorman and the paper on which it printed photos.

10 hours ago, Chris Bristow said:

As I understand it the original was returned to Mary Ann Moorman after the FBI analyzed it. I guess the question would be after altering a photo printed on the Polaroid in camera paper could you then copy  and  print that onto the same type of Polaroid paper?

I don’t see how that could be physically possible, especially given the available technology in 1963.

2 hours ago, Chris Bristow said:

I'm going to spitball here and throw out some observation about the Moorman photo. If it was published right away it would impossible to alter. If not they would need to alter the position of the limo by about 12 inches to the west to match an altered Z film. That would require blowing up the photo slightly then cropping it back to its original form. That gives them some extra image area on the left side of the photo. Then they do a matte to separate the background from the limo. Then they slide that background a little to the right which makes the limo look like it was a farther down Elm. The Polaroid camera made no negative just the print on photographic paper in the camera. That makes it vastly harder to uncover fakery. I have  not looked at this in detail yet but it seems to be within the realm of possibility.

Chris, the original Moorman Polaroid exists. How could it have been altered?

20 minutes ago, Chris Bristow said:

The fact it wasn't released for so many years means they would have had almost the complete daily Plaza record by then. And when it was released it was leaked. It wasn't their intention to release it to the public even in 1978.

"By then," maybe. I'm talking about early/initial alterations that would have needed to be "changed" later on, to reflect the extant photo record. Are you thus claiming that the original alterations could have themselves been altered again later on, so as to keep the photo record consistent?

2 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

What difference would his doing that make? Do you think that would make him sound any less guilty than any other alibi he might use?

Think about it. Had Oswald yelled out, "Hey, I couldn't have shot the president... I was busy outside watching the presidential parade!" Would the reporters in response have exclaimed, "Release that man! He couldn't have killed the president... he was outside watching the presidential parade!"  LOL

Are you seriously asking me what difference it would have made? Gee, how about giving journalists the impetus to question police and other authority figures about Oswald's specific claim in real time, not to mention asking the same question of the numerous Book Depository witnesses who were funneled in and out of Dallas PD headquarters during the assassination weekend.

49 minutes ago, Chris Bristow said:

Jonathan, they did not immediately release the Z film. The only thing the public saw for years is some individual frames. Since they didn't release it, we might assume that if it was altered they were holding it as an Ace in the Hole. Either way holding on to it for years would allow them to compare their forgery to all the other documented photographic evidence.

But Chris, even if you're right, and all they did was alter portions of the film at first, they'd still potentially be in the same trouble because they wouldn't have the complete Dealey Plaza film and photo record to compare their alterations with.

42 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

OMG of course that was his alibi! That he went outside to watch the motorcade? As opposed to being inside shooting the president. Jeez Pat, how can that not be considered an alibi?

Please explain why Oswald did not shout from the rooftops during the multiple times he was in the proximity of the media on Nov. 22 and 23 that he was outside watching the motorcade and not assassinating President Kennedy?

1 hour ago, Chuck Schwartz said:

Barry, read the "Dino Brugioni" thread right here on this website for a view of when the alteration occurred.

Chuck, how could the conspirators be confident when altering the Zapruder film the weekend of the assassination that dozens of additional films and photographs from Dealey Plaza wouldn't immediately contradict their forgeries?

53 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

Now all you have to do is deal with the evidence

The "evidence" has been dealt with on this forum for more than a decade and this asinine theory has been authoritatively debunked here and elsewhere - so much so that even Jim Hargrove has taken his toys and run away.

1 hour ago, John Butler said:

But, you cannot deal with the TSBD without realizing there were two Oswalds there at the time of the assassination. 

The way to "deal with" it is to accept that there never were two Oswalds, and that the notion of two Oswalds running amok in Dealey Plaza is absolutely preposterous.

2 hours ago, Barry Keane said:

Because of the head snap any alteration of the film is negated. So why go to great lengths to hide the reality of the film if the back and to the left movement is retained? If conspirators had the power and sophistication to alter the film why not just make it disappear?

Thank you, Barry, for again injecting some sense into this otherwise absurd thread.

26 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

We ALL know there is a man in the deep west corner of the landing yet not a soul is credited with saying a single word about the existence of that person, not passing him going back into the TSBD or staring at him as Wesley is seen doing a number of times.

I've seen that frame, claiming that is Shelley with barely a tiny piece of a head to go on seems a bit slim for me to make an identification.

You are 100% sure that is Lovelady when it appears to be the back of a woman's head to me...  

Does Sandy agree with John Butler that Altgens 6 was somehow altered with the use of an "Oswald face mask" ?

5 hours ago, James R Gordon said:

I have no intention of resigning and I bitterly regret that my responses have given rise to such speculation.

The ownership of the EF will remain with the present admin team.

I have to admit.. this thread is mighty confusing. James, am I clear that "the present admin team" would continue to "own" this forum even if another member who isn't part of said team becomes responsible for handling all the financial aspects of keeping it up and running?

2 hours ago, John Butler said:

Bonney Ray Williams locked the elevator to the 5th floor when he came down from the sixth about 12:15 or 12:20. There he joined Norman and Jarman.  In my opinion that was to keep anyone from disturbing what was happening on the 6th floor.

And as usual, you don't have a shred of actual evidence to support such a claim.

1 hour ago, Karl Hilliard said:

I thought [still do] that Groden helped get the ball rolling in the first place by getting the Zapruder film out to the public.  

He did, but in recent years he appears to have made up interviews for his latest book and also passed off an obviously fake photo as one that was taken during JFK’s autopsy, to say nothing of the allegations leveled at him by David Lifton involving possible chicanery with original assassination films and photos…

8 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Did Ferrell dislike and/or even hate JFK up through 11,22,1963? 

Who cares?

8 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

She purposely chose to ignore JFK's motorcade visit through her city? She instead had lunch out somewhere else during it?

Who cares, part 2?

9 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

If Joseph McBride's research into Ferrell's background regards all the connections and associations she had with many seriously anti-Kennedy groups and for many years are credibly true, doesn't this validate suspicion as to her supposed conversion to this full time, passionate JFK truth seeking mission matriarch?

Not in the least.

1 hour ago, Pat Speer said:

So enough with this stuff about Ferrell being a spy out to contain or destroy the research community.

Thank you to Pat and Allen Lowe for injecting some common sense into these paranoid and preposterous allegations about Mary, who I feel lucky to have known personally. 

34 minutes ago, Robin Unger said:

He is an ALTERATIONIST who believes many of the film and photo's have been altered.

Don't I know it! I actually think John believes ALL of the films and photos have been altered by using such things as "Oswald face masks" and cars with their roofs being pointed in the wrong directions ...

2 hours ago, John Butler said:

Can you prove me wrong? Or, is just another one of your boldly stated opinions.

Take the opportunity to show me how I am wrong. 

The people seen in the Bell film at the end of the Grassy Knoll area were not within camera range from Zapruder's filming position.