John Wilson

Oh no!! I meant to watch that!! Darn it. Could you give us a brief review of what went on after the Gestapo murders of the fifty escapees (not as depicted in the film, but in small groups on seperate days)? Cheers John

Once again the SAS are in the news- hunting Taliban killers of 5 British soldiers whilst eating their meal! I doubt if Tarantino could beat the real thing!

I'm suppose that many people here also blindly believe everything the Politicians tell them as fact, too? That because they give a speech, and no contrary proof is visible when they say it, it must be true? I get it, nobody must dare question? And there's me thinking this was a board for Political Conspiracies?

I'm sure the 'authorities' -if we can believe their "expertise" -had taken that possibility into account? Would that be inconvenient for you, Andy, or is every single death on earth natural, or an accident?

As we sadly know, Diana's car was reported to have lurched violently one direction, then another before crashing into one of the pillars in the Pont de l'Alma tunnel in Paris, August 31st 1997. But, according to explorer and former SAS Officer, Sir Ranulph Ffiennes- a friend of Prince Charles, there is indeed a commonly employed assassination technique used by hired murder squads, and that it involves the use of a device which remotely controls the target vehicle's steering and brakes - known in certain circles as the 'Boston Brakes', supposedly a technique of disabling a vehicle's brakes developed in Boston. This is supported by no less than the testimony of former WWII fighter pilot, former Air Marshall of the RAF Sir Peter Horsely, also later equerry to both HM the Queen and also Prince Philip. He was a victim of such a plot himself. In 1986 on his way to a meeting, Sir Peter had only been driving his car for about a mile along the A303 (nearing Stonehenge) on the straight stretch of road the following happened, as described by Horsely in his autobiography, Sounds From Another Room. Horsley says that he was accelerating to about 60mph when his car began to react strangely. He saw a grey Volvo closing up quickly right behind him and as he was about to wave it past, "with alarming suddenness" his BMW spun sharply to the left, the brakes screeching, and then sharply to the right and back again. Isn't this similar to what happened to Diana's Mercedes before it struck the 13th pillar? Horsley was by now desperately trying to maintain control and he went on: In that other, oncoming car in the other carriageway, was a former SAS officer, Major Michael Marman of the Sultan of Oman's Armed Forces. Ffiennes says in his book "The Feather Men" that such techniques are the speciality of a European "private security firm" known as 'the Clinic' who are highly able to make 'hits' look like accidents. Marman, due to his tours of duty with the Sultan's forces, had been the target of Yemeni assassination plots. The 'Clinic' had been hired. But why use Horsely? Ffiennes states that most likely a team would have snook in at night, attached a 'brake' device to Horsely's car (outside his secluded Victorian home) and simply waited until he drove out the next day. They would then zoom up behind him, 'blow' out the braking system whilst taking over control of the car, crashing it, then driving on by and away to safety. They, specialised in their line of work and aided by their paymasters, could later sneak back to wherever the wreckage was being kept (or on the scene) and remove the brake apparatus? The Police would then have no idea about what had happened? Could the mysterious white Fiat Uno have done such to Diana's car? Why were the fully qualified Daimler-Benz engineers denied permission to examine Diana's car by the French authorities? An independent eye witness to Horsely's crash, Aubrey Allen, driving a short enough distance behind Horsely before it crashed, stated that "a large puff of smoke came out of the left side of the car". Of course, there are so many more oddities and inexplicable denials, omissions, inactions and incomplete lines of enquiry regarding Diana's death, convenient for some?

According to many, Britain, or England (as some extremist 'nationialists' or 'denialists' call her, in their inexplicable attempt to expunge the national name) is in social meltdown. Could "New labour" (a curious phrase) or their close counterparts, the Conservatives, based upon the last decade, be stern enough to finally say 'enough is enough' to the apparent mass influx of Eastern European, African and other immigrants, many of whom are illegal and have disappeared into the system? Can this tiny island take more of an influx on board? Should she have restricted entry to those with no provable income and capital? Or NO to everyone, using (for example) the military, and simply refused entry to the UK and returned people to France? A million questions beckon. Or are such parties as the the BNP the answer? Well, before we go screaming down the High St attacking anyone not white (surely the real meaning of the term 'British' that such extremists use? And not hounding out those , ie, mixed race people that were born here and love England/Britain, having fought for her?), let us think? Are the likes of extreme right-wing parties, like the BNP (who now have convenienetly 'moved on' from being 1970's skinheaded bovver-boot wearers throwing bricks through asian & black family's windows, to wearing suits and using unresearched and emotive political campaigns) , for example, acceptable for a nation that suffered over 450,000 and 60,000 deaths due to the nazis in WWII? My own beloved (WHITE) grandma was, in her aged desperation and generational and historical ignorance (by her own admission despite her 'favourite' grandson informing her about the real views of those 'nice' and now besuited "Politicians"- no different, in real terms, from the vicious and physically brutish and ultra-aggressive, but cowardly (IMO) NF -(National Front) thinking of voting for their disguise of 'respectability. She, a wonderful 92 yr old British/English lady whose love for her nation and whose brave generation survived nazi bombs, fought back and thankfully, due to my own political influence and, yes, impartial information, has altered her view of these people. They that have the gall to use the Spitfire as some sick political 'national' badge in their warped political campaign (which resisted and beat the nazis). Griffin comes from a wealthy family with a history of involvement in right-wing politics. His father, Edwin, a Conservative Party official in Halesworth, admits to having attended National Front meetings in the past, taking the young Nick with him often. Griffin's sister also stood as an NF candidate in a Suffolk county council election. His mother is the administration secretary of the BNP and was a candidate in the 2001 general election. The NF, as I'm sure you're aware, embraced the ideology of the Italian Third Position as the Griffin faction took control, but they soon began to make some strange alliances. The "political soldiers" wing was (hypocritically?) meeting representatives of Colonel Gaddafi's regime through the Libyan People's Bureau in London, and expressing support for it and for... Ayatollah Khomeini. Writing in Nationalism Today in 1985, Griffin praised the black separatist Louis Farrakhan, saying, Unsurprisingly this did not go down too well with rank and file members of the NF. And even today vicious BNP infighting pesists, despite their illusory "success" in recent by-elections? But, how far do we as a nation have to/ want to go? If at all/

Thanks Andy. By "processes" do you mean the official procedures by which the ATF operate? Or do you mean the deeper and maybe more sinister aspects of how they operate?

I am surprised to find no debate already running about the bungled siege by the AFT in February 1993 at the Branch Davidian ranch at Waco, Texas, of a cult led by David Koresh. In May 92 Chief Deputy Daniel Weyenberg of the McLennan County Sheriff's Department ordered the AFT (th Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms) to question Koresh on suspicion of child molestation, caching arms, rape and polygamy. A 51 day siege ensued which ended sadly with the compound destroyed, 76 deaths (26 British), including 20 children, two pregnant women, 4 agents and Koresh himself. Yet, according to a documentary I watched about the entire case and it's grisly outcome, certain members of the AFT, some time before the siege who were sent to meet Koresh in more relaxed settings, were later found to have become 'pally' with the man and even joined in some target practice, using live weapons, of tin cans on a wall next to the same ranch compound that later became notorious? Has anyone heard this?

I have searched the forums and if my search was accurate (no results) I can't believe that there is no topic on this former President? In this case, the film starring Anthony Hopkins. Stone's epic film about the controversial President, from his poor childhood with strict, God-fearing and hardworking parents through to his election and doomed term/s was shot with style and substance, the acting by a multi-star cast, was impeccable. It was also quite moving, oddly. But there are, for me, several curious scenes. In one scene, Nixon whistfully stares out of the Whitehouse at night whilst talking to an aide, stating that "four bodies" got him into the Whitehouse? Which four? I thought his two brothers, JFK and RFK? If not, then whom? The day before JFK is shot, Nixon is depicted meeting several sinister and very right-wing oilmen (played by Larry Hagman et al), and also in the scene is at least one Cuban. They are persuading him to run against kennedy, but he tells them that he could never win against JFK until they hint heavily they hint will 'not run' in 64. Was Nixon meeting these men out of some business deal?

I like American people in general (not their Govts or 'agencies'... or teen horror/girly chick flicks! ) and am proud to be good internet friends with several. I do find the seemingly blind reverence for a flag disturbing, no matter who it is, 18thC britain, 1930's Germany or present-day USA? (No anology between the three)

True, Dennis. I don't necessarily go along with "Might is right". I suppose if I were a professional politician, I would probably also be irked by the uneducated masses, most of whom believe anything they're spoonfed and 'told' to believe, or are brainwashed by the media and Politicians who reveal just enough of what we should know?

Hi Dennis Yes I agree there is a grey area of belief? As for the majority thought process, annoying as it is to the authorities, the views of the great unwashed DO matter (polls etc), or why else would the powers that be spend so much money and time in manipulating them every election?

Wow, what a modern man! The state has always repressed such fair-minded thinkers. Heaven forbid the people should receive humane treatment, and have access to rights?

I find it curious that people can not think that there was more than one person organising and perpetrating the JFK killing? Not because of the film, not because I'm on meds and not because I'm liable to believe absolutely anything that 'fits' a theory I want it to. I believe that because one man could not logically have acted alone to achieve what Oswald did in the months and years building up to Deeley Plaza- after the fact especially. There are too many strange events, curious happenings and convenient deaths etc that occurred to dozens/hundreds of people before November 1963, when Oswald was under arrest, and after his death, which in itself speaks volumes, to me.

When watching James Bond movies, i always, having never read the author and former intelligence officer Ian Fleming's novels, wondered if he ever slipped some teasing plotlines, codes or actual names of people, ops or 'secrets' into the scripts? Or if he did, were they edited out before filming (by himself or 'others'?), and did he leave the references in the books, maybe in code? What did he omit, I sometimes muse? Similarly, were there any fantasy-reality connections with Gerry Anderson (as mentioned on the JFK conspiracy board), creator of The Thunderbirds, UFO, Stingray, Space 1999 etc. His older brother, a WWII Mosquito pilot, was killed in action and it inspired him to make the models in his wonderful TV creations. Or was there any other TV production that might have alarmed the authorities?

I have read about the JFK slaying in November '63 quite a bit, seen the wonderful if Hollywood movie and have studied the topic whilst in the post-school 6th form as a project, so I know a smattering. This doesn't make me as qualified to comment about it in depth as many of you people, but I'm enthusiastic nevertheless. It always makes me wince, growl and lastly laugh in despair when the "authorities" (?) wheel out those lame US and/or UK 'documentaries' which, disdaining any objectivity in their desperate zeal to clamber up the Warren Report's backside, fall over themselves to 'disprove' the conspiracy theory of there having been more than one gunman killer. Multiple bullets are shoe-horned into timeslots that don't fit (Zapruder film), explanatory plot holes are clumsily bunged up with oodles of plaster of Paris and all of the characters are hastily crammed into places they never were at a time they couldn't have been? One that I watched, I can't remember it's daft title, but it contained something dramatic in order to perhaps shock us into obedience(?), even had the gall to keep blatanly making definite 'factual' statements which denied anything other than the square peg into the round hole, ie. Oswald was a Communist, came back to the USA, bought a gun, got a job overlooking the Plaza and fired his amazingly accurate shots into the President from afar...in record time. CIA spin? Why on earth do they even bother? Most Americans (and world populus?), according to endless polls, do not believe the fantastic Warren Report?

I love this film and own the 2-disk dvd (the deleted scenes are astounding!), despite it's fantasy approach with history- but then, how many films tell us the truth 100%? Not many. The casting, acting, cinematography and grittiness were great and the grim backdrops and social depictions were researched in depth by the Hughes brothers who co-directed the film. They have a personal off-screen interest in the murders and it showed, thus they took time to attempt to recreate the sets accurately, even going to the lengths of filming in the Czech Republic as well as England, in order to more easily recreate the look and 'atmosphere of 19thC London which now has largely vanished. I liked the Freemason theory linked with {spoiler) 'a certain character', and the way it was handled. Brilliant. I also found the film oddly moving at the end?

Hi Andy. Yes, In my unmerciful vindictiveness, I dared to be totally unreasonable and offend the poor, sensitive feelings of the thugs in jackboots! I hadn't heard of William Illiam Dhone Brown before, but anyone who had the resolution and conviction to bear up to either Cromwell or the Royalists, deserves a statue?

What does it mean to be an 'English' hero? What is 'English' and who defines it? What traits and qualities within such heroic figures do we look for, or should we look for? Being born here? Raised here? Or simply loving this country and defending her physically, politically or socially? Or, as some in the socio-political arena will have us believe, does it mean simply being white, regardless of one's cultural and national ancestry (a huge percentage of Britain has Irish ancestry!), so long as one's face 'fits'?? It doesn't matter to me personally, as I know that a person is a person with their individual talents and strengths, regardless of bloodline, birth and visual appearance. It seems to matter to some. On another forum yonks ago, I unregrettably made some accurate yet possibly controversial comments in historical context only, regarding great English heroes who had been "only" half-English by blood, but whose courage, deeds and legend were/are made no less brilliant (rightly so) by the quirk of fate known as being born somewhere. That post, the essence of which is echoed here, was hotly 'debated' by many, especially by those in the far right who leapt in and seemed to blindly worship some of those characters listed below. They twisted and turned around fact and evidence, hoping to cobble their warped square peg into the logical round hole. They also did not know I was mixed race (Anglo-Caribbean). Just a few examples, then, are; Winston Churchill - half-American, but in the mid-00's he was voted "the greatest Englishman ever"; King Harold II - half-Danish King of England in 1066, worshipped by many, usually harbouring an agenda; Isambard Kingdom Brunel - half-French engineering legend... Spike Milligan - revered worldwide by his peers as an English comic genius, yet he was Indian-born and of Irish descent. Bob Hope - English-born, but everyone remembers him as a great American comic. Paul McCartney - he achieved virtually everything in his field, is half-Irish. David Niven - The quintessential Englishman? However, his mother was French (his father was Scottish). During his lifetime Niven also claimed to have been born in Scotland although his birth certificate says he was born in London. Some people jingoistically revere the 'three lions' (of Aquitaine) and talk proudly of Richard the Lionheart, yet he was a Frenchman, didn't speak, nor did he want to speak, English. He was only actually in England for 1/20th of his reign (1189-99) and reputedly would have sold London had he found a buyer. Not to mention the Duke of Wellington (born in Ireland, as were so many other famous names in England alone, to Anglo-Irish nobility) who, touchy about his roots and when asked about his Irish ancestry, famously said "being born in a stable does not make one a horse". Sir Edward Elgar hated the Jingoistic abuse of his own composition Land of Hope and Glory, played to many a teary-eyed flag-waver in the Albert Hall (named after the German consort!) who doesn't understand their own history! General Eisenhower in WWII didn't allow his Germanic roots to cloud his American nationality, or his determination to crush Nazi germany? He refused to even shake the surrendering German officer's hand in 1945. Even the very chivalric and English-thinking King Edward III, founder of the Order of the Garter in 1348, was by blood 75% French; 25% Spanish! The Germanic Hanovers on the English/British throne (Royalty always having historically been a mixed bag of French, Danes, Spanish, Portugese, Norse, Scots, etc etc). Victoria, queen throughout the British Empire (the world's greatest) - her mother was German, her father was half-German and she married a German, Albert. No wonder a certain extremist party conveniently ignore their inclusion of those of Irish descent?

You and me both, Norman. I've visited it many times- so brave that they have a forum for the opposition to speak out? Not. Those idiots- some of whom polluted an old history forum I once ran- will spout any warped and over-emotive tripe to the dumb and ignorant masses, who believe alot of it. So much for the absorption rate of the public in the education system in this country?

I agree, but the far right idiots- those who blather and wave flags the most, yet who actually know the least and are hypocrites- would beg to differ! I sometimes feel that "black history" (which to me suggests 'Africa') but usually encompasses the Chartism movement and heroism in wars etc, should be merged into, simply...British history? As the characters who are [rightly] studied lived in and often took an important part in the history of this island, why distance them by labelling them so? This only serves to segregate them...again? After all, do we also have an Irish British history module? A huge % of the British population is descended from that other island, yet there is far less mention of this?

Thanks for this post, I remember Clinton's apology, better late than never! I wonder what other 'shameful' episodes there are such as this that were perpetrated against the American populus- black or white- as yet buried deep in the FBI and CIA archives?

Have you read "Staying Power: The History of Black People in Britain: Black People in Britain Since 1504" by Peter Fryer?> No, but I'll add it to my 'to read' list. Thanks. I am also keen to try to discover evidence of existence of black people/communities in Britain from Roman times onwards.

Hi Norman, and thanks for the site feedback. Yes! Yes, especially as it constantly evolves, ie. discoveries of Gigantoraptor skeletons, Anglo-Saxon coin hoards etc? Racial bigotry in the days of the British Empire became even more institutional after slaves were freed by law, plantation and slave owners (and other sectors) suffered financial losses and had to be compensated by the Government. A more bitter and racial overtone began to seep into society as black people were freed and almost 'blamed' for society's losses. This also manifested itself, as black faces grew rarer, in the literature, theatre and other forms of popular entertainment of the age, Kipling's work to name just one example typical of the Victorian era? But I suppose we are talking "agendas"? The Political right will always deny that Severus was black, as with other characters, so it's a case of battling entrenched opinions with education?

Not knowing who the guy is (which was all I was saying, before you got uptight, not the quality or accuracy of his work), as much or as little as the next person, without examining sources myself. That's the nature of conspiracies and history. I don't doubt William of Poitiers either, just that I take him, or anyone else, with a pinch or a bag of salt, depending, although an element of faith has to be accepted at some point. You tell us.