Dean Hagerman

I saw your reply on the other forum

I wont use the quote option so we dont have to scroll down for 10 miles just to read a reply, so I will keep your posts in bold They all do. Wimp prepared quite wonderful GIFs showing this. Until someone comes up with his work for all to see, it is extremely difficult to make clear his points I would love to see this Gif, I can make one with those frames you mention, but I would like to see his Gifs and his work on this You are confused here. All occupants of the limousine slide forward starting about Z frame 308. All continue sliding forward but JFK is whacked backward and to the left at Z 314 No I am not confused, I do not see JFK ever start to slide forward, have you ever thought that all the people in the limo were all ducking out of the way right after JFK was hit instead of the limo just slowing down? Kellerman thought that bullets were coming in from all over the place, Nellie thought that spent buckshot was raining down all over them in the car. I will look into frame 308 to 313 (or even up to 320) and make a Gif if only for myself to watch because I dont recall anyone moving forward until AFTER the head shot Im not saying your wrong about them starting to move forward at 308, I have just never seen that nor studied any one in the limo moving forward before the head shot As far as I know, Rich Dellarosa's story about seeing the "other film" has been around for a decade or so and no one has made any progress in confirming it. Were there others in the audience with Dellarosa who could confirm what he says he saw? Exactly where and when did he see it? Etc. My own bet is that he may have seen one of the many Zapruder film look-alikes that have been floating around... you know, the sort of thing done for the film Executive Action, etc. Rich has done that Tink, go to JFKresearch.com, Rich made a thread telling where he saw the film, under what conditions, what he saw etc. Well, as long as you're happy with your fellow tribe members, that's nice, Very much so, im proud to be a part of the tribe as you say, its nice to have people who belive strongly in the same things that you do, I do disagree with some things but for the most part my thoughts fit in well with Fetzer and crew No, I wasn't "backing out" of anything. That good to hear So you still back your shot scenario in SSID but whithout the first hit in the double head shot? Thanks Tink Dean

What are you talking about Duncan? Did you read my post or watch the Dorman film? I never said the motercyclists move I know that they are the same cops that we see on the left side of the screen that in less then the blink of an eye are back at the right side of the screen Where in my post did you see me say that they are two different cops? Read slowly, watch the film again and then report back to me when you can tell me im right The film has missing frames, thus the film has been altered Fair enough Dean, you're allowed to change your mind. You posted this on the other forum. Quote from: Dean Hagerman on Today at 06:06:40 PM Watch real close and you will see the jump (what to watch for is how the motercycle officers go from the left hand side of the film to the righthand side when the film jumps, so frames were removed) End of qoute The Dorman film isn't altered Dean. The missing frames were never there in the first place. Gary Mack is spot on. It stops and starts all over the place. Why?..because she was an amateur, just like all of the other assassination sequence film takers on that day. Duncan why would you post that im changing my mind? The post you quoted never says two different sets of cops, it says just what I have said in this thread Please dont imply that I am not being honest, you can read what I posted on both forums and you know I posted the same thing So why would you say that? Are you trying to make me look stupid? Are you trying to make me mad? I had a great deal of respect for you at first, but it seems just because we dont agree you post BS about me "changing my mind" I dont know why you would do that Back to the point of the thread While I look to Gary for help on some things I have to disagree with him on this

Good job Bill, while I have already read/am reading vol 4 it is very nice of you to post parts of it for those who dont have the book yet or wont buy it for reasons unknown

Not Nice, Ray

What are you talking about Duncan? Did you read my post or watch the Dorman film? I never said the motercyclists move I know that they are the same cops that we see on the left side of the screen that in less then the blink of an eye are back at the right side of the screen Where in my post did you see me say that they are two different cops? Read slowly, watch the film again and then report back to me when you can tell me im right The film has missing frames, thus the film has been altered

In case the link does not work just copy and paste to get to the Youtube video

For the last year or so I have been researching Hugh Betzners pictures and more importantly his movements in the Z-film and the Dorman film While watching the Dorman film over and over 100s of times I began to notice some jumps in the film that looked like missing frames That alone is a big deal, but where the missing frames are on the film is a HUGE deal, right when the limo is about to make the turn onto Elm the frames are missing and the film jumps Just watch the film in the link from youtube (taken from Grodens Assassination Films) between the 11 and 12 second mark the film jumps right when the limo is starting the turn from Houston to Elm Watch the two motercycle officers, right before the jump they are on the left hand side of the film, then the film jumps to the motercycle officers to the right hand side of the film right when the limo is starting its turn Gary Mack has told me that Dorman kept turning her camera on and off while filming Well I dont believe that Zappy turned his camera off, and I also dont think Dorman did either, both of these films have the limo turn onto Elm taken out Along with the damage to the Towner film and the Hughes film whwne the limo turn was happening I agree with Fetzer, White and others that the Limo turn was taken out because Greer swung wide and had to pretty much stop the limo to correct his mistake and get back into the middle lane, those who altered the film had to take away any SS mistakes or that would show that the SS was involved in any way I would like some feedback on this discovery I have made through my research I know that Z-film is altered thanks to Fetzer, White and the rest of TGZFH guys along with Noel Twyman, I am looking at the other films very closly and have concluded that the Dorman film is altered and frames were taken away from the film Nix said when he got his film back from the government it had frames missing Muchmore said that she does not remember filming the Elm St assassination part that shows up on her film Altgens can not remember taking two of his pictures This is a very exciting time for me as an alterationist, with Doug Hornes book validating Fetzer and TGZFH gang along with Liftons body alteration theory Dean

Hey Jack how many balls were on the sidelines yesterday to replace the game balls that got to worn out? I just want to know how much money is being wasted, you know with the players now keeping all the balls that they score touchdowns with I think we need to look into this more deeply

Thank you very much Jim

Tink I dont see any of the others in the limo being thrown forward at the time of JFKs forward head snap And why is JFKs head the only part of his body to be thrown forward when the others in the limo have their bodies thrown forward? (Again after JFKs forward head snap) Tink you were right the first time The other film as viewed by Rich Dellarosa shows a more pronounced double hit to JFKs head after the limo came to a complete stop Im sure you dont believe Rich, however I do believe Rich and I think those who altered the Z-film could not take away enough frames to make the double hit disappear completly, that and they paid to much attention to creating the blob and blood spray to notice the small forward head snap that you caught I already know that you are going to say im crazy for backing up alteration, but I stand behind Fetzer and TGZFH gang (White, Mantik, Healy, Lifton, DellaRosa) as well as Noel Twyman whom back in 1997 proved alteration of the Z-film to me I think you having caught the double head hit is a huge deal, and while you may think of it in terms of the Z-film being authentic, I think of it as a missed item by the alterationists Again thanks for you reply And one more question, it seems like you were kind of backing out on a shot coming from the front in your reply to me Was I just looking into what you were saying the wrong way, or do you no longer believe in a shot from the front? Thanks again Tink Dean Edit: I created the Gif from Costella combined edit

Im sorry Cliff but I cant understand why anybody would back Gils theory More contentless dismissal. Are there any actual facts you wish to discuss? Or is ridicule the only note you hit? And yet there JFK is, clear as day, holding his right hand in front of his face while his left hand "clutches" or "grabs" at his throat as per the witness testimony. Are you denying that JFK was struck in the throat from the front by a projectile that didn't exit? Perhaps you need the reassurance of other people agreeing with you. This is not a particular need I've ever had. Happy New Year... Cliff you know as well as I do that I would never be able to change your mind, and I know for sure you would not be able to change mine So here it is You belive in Gils theory I think its the most insane theory I have ever heard No need to get into a heated debate over it I do have one question though, why do you back this theory with such vigor as you say? How does it fit in with your assassination scenario?

Im sorry Cliff but I cant understand why anybody would back Gils theory The first time I watched his JFK Cough video I thought that Gil was going to pop up and the end of the video and say "Ha ha just kidding guys I got you!" Im still trying to decide what part is more insane, JFK trying to catch the coughed up bullet in his right hand, or JFK trying to loosin his tie with his left hand How many researchers/students do you think back Gils theory up? (besides you and him)

Thank you very much for your reply Tink I will work on my response tonight

Pat I agree with that 100% I still love SSID I still read it I still belive in some of Tinks very important theories That is one of the reasons I am very dumbfounded as to why Tink changed his mind about the double head hit

I agree that JFK was shot in the back from the Dal Tex Building. What, pray tell, does that have to do with him being shot in the throat from the front circa Z190? Good call Jim I just remembered reading in Crossfire (years ago was the last time I read it) about an Air Conditining man who found a shell with a sabot around it on the roof of the Records Building I will listen to you and Marrs on The Real Deal tonight and report back with my thoughts Dean

I agree that JFK was shot in the back from the Dal Tex Building. What, pray tell, does that have to do with him being shot in the throat from the front circa Z190? It has nothing to do with JFK being shot in the throat from the front (I agree with that as well) Gil trys to pawn off JFKs forward movement from a hit in the back as JFK trying to cough up a bullet I do not believe in Gils theory at all, and im sure most of the members of this forum do not agree either

You have got to be kidding me I have no idea who you are. Have you done any original research in the case, Dean? JFK getting shot in the throat and frantically trying to clear his airway amuses you? Okay. I guess you'll find this Nellie Connally WC testimony hilarious...(emphasis added) How about this bit from Clint Hill, also before the WC: Or how about this one from Linda K. Willis, Rosemary Willis' older sister, who told the Warren Commission: That's 3 witnesses with a clear view of Kennedy corroborating Gil Jesus' analysis. What, exactly, do you find funny about this, Dean? I find most of Gils work funny And I dont know who you are either JFK was not try to cough up a bullet, he was struck in the back from a shot from the Dal Tex building, thats why he moves forward

Dr. Thompson explained this a number of years ago and it has been posted several times on the forum, starting with this thread: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...=5018&st=30 Well Ray you must have missed the post I made were I said I had already read his reason for changing his mind (in fact it was the post made by Tink in the same thread you posted a link to that I read) That was not the point of my making this thread, I want talk to Tink in depth about this theory and his reasons for backing out on it

You have got to be kidding me I almost fell out of my chair laughing when watching "Was JFK Trying to Cough Up a Bullet?"

Tink Please explain why you changed your mind on this most important theory And again I believe you were correct back in 1967 Thank you Tink Dean

Tink This is very important, maybe not to you but it is to me I have asked you in this thread about it and I understand that you are busy dealing with Full Flush Left but at the same time the double hit theory that YOU came up with has something to do with Z-film alteration Again I have believed in your theory since I read it, it made perfect sense and the way you presented it in your book was outstanding I have read the story about why you no longer support your double hit theory, but I cant see how you were so sure in SSID but then go back on it from one researcher telling you it was the from the limo slowing down and the passangers being thrown forward Why didnt the rest of JFKs body get thrown forward with the rest of the limo? Just his head moved forward I dont want to go into my thoughts on Z-film alteration right now because I dont want you to dismiss me as this is important to ME! Rich Dellarosa has seen the double hit unlike myself and you have Tink This fits in perfectly with the Z-film being altered, I hope that you taking back your double hit theory didnt have anything to do with you not wanting to be involved or labeled as an alterationist Tink I believe that you were correct back in 1967 and you are still correct today Can you at least give me some more info on why you dont believe in your theory anymore? Again I would love to discuss this with you, if you want i can start a new thread Thanks Tink Dean

Duncan you used the top frame to prove your point that Lifton was wrong (in my opinion you did not prove Lifton wrong) Now im going to use the bottom frame to prove that Lifton was right

Ok Duncan much better, thank you The amount of black is so small, and not only that its not red like the color of the truck, how do you explain that? Now lets talk about the image that goes ALL the way to the left (Full Flush Left) why can we see Clint Hill in the Z-film frames far beyond the sprocket holes but that is not the case with Zavadas frames? How can you say Lifton is wrong? I await your opinion Duncan Dean