Dean Hagerman

Start typing!

Well a simple please might make me want to do it

But ordering me to type it all out is not going to get me all pumped up to do it

And its X-mas

Give me some time and ask nicely and I will see what I can do

Sorry if you thought it was an 'order' it was meant to be jocular. I wouldn't have though someone whose hero is a sociopathic killer would be so sensitive . Yes I would appreciate you typing that up but don't forget you would be doing so for yourself as much as for me.

You could also try taking photos of the pages. make sure lighting is even and the 'film plane' is as parallel to the pages as possible. Some old 35mm-med. format tripods can be used as impromptu copy stands.

"That Email from Gary proves nothing Kathy, in fact it does not change Ryans opinion one bit"

Except that Horne and others claim the fake Z-film was ready that night or a few days later and you seem to have failed to notice this bit,"Ryan insisted to Zavada and Trask that such changes, while technically possible, in his opinion, would have taken months to accomplish and they would still likely have been detectable. "

I didnt see that you were being jocular, my fault for being to sensitive, then again when you say that my hero was a sociopathic killer that might be a little stretch, I mean Karpis was like Robin Hood, he just never gave to the poor

I will try taking pictures right now

And Doug Horne (and others, what other alterationists I would love to know) said it was altered completety that night? Did I miss that? If so where was it posted? I have always subscribed to David healys time frame of alteration

Oh, I was under the impression that all of this debate had to do with the Zfilm being changed that weekend or shortly thereafter.

Who gave you that impression?

Have you read (or bought) TGZFH yet?

If not buy it and read David Healys excellent chapter, that will tell you what you need to know about how long it took to alter the Z-film

Len,

This is a very informative email I received from a friend earlier this year, who forwarded it to me, regarding Ryan:

(I've "bolded" it to set it apart from what I've written)

From: GaryM@jfk.org

To: XXXXX@aol.com

Sent: 4/16/2009 6:39:25 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time

Subj: RE: Dr. Roderick Ryan

According to Noel Twyman's 1997 "Bloody Treason" book, Roderick Ryan was shown many frames from the Zapruder film and he issued several opinions supporting the possibility of alteration. Twyman's interviews with Ryan took place mostly from 1993-1995.

In 1999, Ryan and many other film scientists were invited to the National Archives to examine the camera original Zapruder film. Their purpose was to advise NARA about the latest thinking and technology concerning film preservation issues.

At that meeting, two attendees - Kodak scientist Roland Zavada and researcher Richard Trask - questioned Ryan about his alteration beliefs. According to both men, who repeated the details to me, Ryan admitted he was never told that alteration was thought to have happened over the weekend of the assassination or, at the most, within a few days.

Ryan insisted to Zavada and Trask that such changes, while technically possible, in his opinion, would have taken months to accomplish and they would still likely have been detectable. So based on the timing issue, Ryan, who is now deceased, recanted his opinion that the Zapruder film was possibly altered.

Gary Mack

How is that recanting his opinion?

I agree with David Healy 100% that the Febuary 1964 date was when the first parts of frame alteration were completed

That falls in line with Ryans statement to Trask and Zavada (if a statement to them was even ever made) that it would have taken months

That Email from Gary proves nothing Kathy, in fact it does not change Ryans opinion one bit

In appreciation to Bill Kelly, who has made valuable contributions to this thread, I would observe that my response to the early comment of J. Raymond Carroll applies to these remarks from Josiah Thompson, who has obviously adopted the twin strategies of (1) insisting that all of this (in Doug Horne's massive new book, which I am confident he has not read, just as he never read any of my three books but reviewed them nevertheless) is "old news" and (2) employing the method of selection and elimination by selecting only the evidence that supports his predetermined point of view and ignoring the rest (which is becoming increasingly difficult to practice, since the evidence for film fabrication has become massive). Observe how he neglects to mention that Horne has now completely destroyed the backbone of Josiah's defense, the alleged chain-of-custody argument or that film restoration experts, confronted with a large-scale version of the film, were appalled at the amateur fashion in which it had been altered. Read from this post, which appeared earlier on this thread, and appreciate that, not only does Josiah not read books, he doesn't read threads, either. He turns out to be as phony as the film.

This is a nice example of someone who has been out-of-touch with research on the authenticity of the Zapruder film, which has been proceeding at a rapid clip since the symposium on the film I organized and moderated at the Lancer Conference in 1996. Since the film has been used as the backbone of the cover up from its inception--including the creation of the "blob" of brains bulging forward, the missing right-front cranial mass from the x-rays, the caption for frame 313 in LIFE magazine describing how the direction of the shot was determined by the study of the film, and Abraham Zapruder's appearance on television that evening, using his had to show a blow-out to the right-front that did not occur--it would have been extremely unfortunate had Doug Horne followed the advice of J. Raymond Carroll and suppressed his research on the film. Indeed, one of the great virtues of Vol. IV is its exposure of film fakery.

Let me say that Doug Horne has been extremely generous in acknowledging the previous work by Jack White, David Mantik, David Healy, John Costella, and David Lifton, who are those who have made the most important contributions to establishing that the Z-film has been recreated. After all, anyone who takes for granted that the film is authentic--as have generations of students of the crime in generations past--will be unable to reconstruct what actually happened in Dealey Plaza during the assassination, since some events--such as William Greer bringing the limousine to a halt to make certain JFK would be killed, Motorcycle Patrolman Cheney's motoring forward to advise Chief Curry that he had been shot, and Mary Moorman and Jean Hill's stepping into the street to take Mary's famous Polariod--have been removed, while other events--such as the bulging "blob", the blood spray, and the passengers being thrown forward WHILE THE LIMO WAS ACCELERATING--have been added in. Horne's studies reinforce these discoveries.

I especially like the manner in which Doug Horne encourages other students of JFK to abandon their long-held but provably-false belief in Zapruder film authenticity:

The biggest problem we face right now in the JFK research community are the legions of "old guard" researchers who refuse to face this fact [that the Z-film has been fabricated] and who stubbornly cling to some piece of "bedrock evidence", which in their mind will lead them out of the wilderness if only they study it long enough and can divine its true meaning. For Thompson, Wrone, Weisberg, Groden, and may others, the Zapruder film has been this piece of bedrock evidence for over four decades. I say to the old guard who have continued to insist that the Zapruder film is an authentic and unaltered film in spite of the mounting evidence of its alteration, "Come on over, and see the light." You will feel better for having done so--in fact, it will liberate you. Once you accept the fact that the Zapruder film is a clever (but imperfect) forgery, you are free suddenly to believe the Dealey Plaza car stop witnesses (which include several Dallas motorcycle policemen and Bill Newman); Marily Sitzman; the Kodak laboratory personnel (who all say the original film was slit the evening of the assassination); Marilyn Willis; Erwin Schwartz; Cartha DeLoach; Dan Rather; and the Parkland doctors and nurses. For if you believe the Zapruder film is authentic, you must, of necessity, believe that all of these people are either liars, or incompetent and unreliable witnesses.

Following the lead of Noel Twyman, BLOODY TREASON (1997), who consulted Roderick Ryan, an expert on special effects from the cinema capitol of the world, who told him that the "blog" and the blood spray had been painted in, Doug Horne consulted additional experts on special effects and reported that, "When the 6K scans of frames 313 through 323 were viewed, one after the other on two high resolution video screens in the editing bay, Ned Price (who just happens to also be the Head of Restoration at a major Hollywood film studio) said: "Oh, that's horrible, that's just terrible! That's such a bad fake." His colleague, Paul Rutan, opined: "We are not looking at originals; we are looking at artwork." (By this, Rutan meant we were not looking at traveling mattes; we were looking at painted visual effects superimposed on top of the original film frames--by inference, he meant aerial imaging.) The film editor concurred with his two colleagues. To say that this was an electrifying moment would be a gross understatement.

"The considered opinions of our two film restoration professionals, who together have spent over five decades restoring and working with films of the late 1940s, 1950s, and 1960s (when visual effects were done optically--not digitally), in that one moment superseded the statements of all those in the JFK research community who have insisted for two decades now that the Zapruder film could not have been altered, because the technology did not exist to do so. Our two restoration experts know special effects in modern motion picture films far better than Josiah Thompson, or David Wrone, or Gary Mack, or Robert Groden, or me, for that matter; and their subjective opinion [better: professional judgment] trumps Rollie Zavada's as well--a man who has absolutely no experience whatsoever in the post production of visual effects in motion picture films. And while Rollie Zavada, a lifetime Kodak employee receiving retirement pay from his former employer, would certain have an apparent conflict of interest in blowing the whistle on Zapruder film forgery if his former employer was involved in its alteration, our three Hollywood film professionals had no vested interest, one way or the other, in the outcome of their examination of the 6Kscans on August 25th of 2009."

In complete opposition to J. Raymond Carroll, I assert that, if this had been the only contribution of Doug Horne's research toward a better understanding of the assassination of JFK and its cover up, it would have been worth the price of the volume by itself! I am completely and utterly in awe and admiration for his painstaking efforts and meticulous research on the most controversial aspects of the case, where I believe that it has become impossible to deny that the film is a fabrication and that the cover up cannot be understood --even remotely!--without rejecting the blindfold extended by Josiah Thompson, David Wrone, Gary Mack, Rollie Zavada and their chums and allies, who have held back major advances in research on the basis of their misconceived objections to the alteration of the film. I therefore agree with Bill Kelly in his belief that "the corner has been turned" in relation to the question of Zapruder film alteration. Jack White, David Mantik, David Healy, John Costella, David Lifton and I have known it for some time, but there is no substitute for a presentation that anyone with the capacity for objectivity can comprehend! For that--and for his diligence, his dedication, his intelligence, his self-sacrifice, and his professionalism--I congratulate him!

QUOTE (J. Raymond Carroll @ Nov 17 2009, 12:17 PM)

QUOTE (William Kelly @ Nov 17 2009, 10:30 AM)

Inside the Assassinations Records Review Board: The U.S. Government’s Final Attempt to Reconcile the Conflicting Medical Evidence in the Assassination of JFK

By Douglas P. Horne

Chief Analyst for Military Records, Assassinations Records Review Board

Table of Contents

Chapter 14: The Zapruder Film Mystery p. 1185

Based on his interview with Dick Russell, my advice to Doug is to leave out this chapter entirely.

By his own admission, it is highly speculative. As such, its inclusion could seriously undermine the credibility of the book.

Instead he could just publish it on the Mary Ferrell site as a speculative article.

After all, its not as though the book will be TOO SHORT if this chapter is omitted.

And its not as though the book will not be CONTROVERSIAL enough if this chapter is omitted.

I’ve been scratching my head trying to figure out what is new in this discussion of Doug Horne’s interviews at NPIC. We know from the Phillips receipt that the Secret Service received a first-generation copy of the Zapruder film in Dallas at 9:30 PM on Friday, November 22nd. We also know that that copy was immediately flown to Washington, D.C. It would be natural for the Secret Service to both make additional copies in Washington and send an agent over to NPIC with the photo material. The first generation copy flown to Washington would have had no images in the intersprocket area.

What we know independently comports well with what Ben Hunter tells us. He worked on the film at NPIC most likely on Saturday, November 23rd. The film he worked on had no intersprocket images and hence was a copy not the original. It showed what the published the Zapruder film shows. The film was brought to NPIC by a Secret Service agent but the name “Bill Smith” does not ring a bell for him as the name of the agent. He assumed the film was processed by Kodak in Rochester but did not recall being told this explicitly.

Still, I look forward to reading what Doug Horne has to say. What he has to say about the medical evidence will be especially intriguing. I’ve ordered all five parts of his work. Here are the relevant parts of Doug Horne’s interview reports. They’ve been around for about ten years:

Meeting Report

Document’s Author: Doug Horne

Date Created: 06/18/97

Date of Meeting: 06/17/97

Meeting: Morgan Bennett Hunter interviewed by Doug Horne, Jeremy Gunn, Dave Montague and Michelle Combs

He recalled that he and Homer McMahon worked with the Zapruder film very shortly after the assassination in 1963, just 2 or 3 days afterwards. At another point, he said it may have been the next day (Saturday) or Sunday, November 24, and he thought it was prior to the funeral of President Kennedy. He recalled that no one else from the NPIC (other than he and Homer McMahon) was in the building, which means it was almost certainly the weekend of the assassination; he also recalled that he had to drive from home to do this job, and that he was not already at work when the project was assigned.

His memories of film content were limited to seeing a skull explosion, bone fragments and Jackie crawling on the trunk of the car. Apparently to those involved that night the film was only referred to as a “home movie,” but he seemed convinced that it was the Zapruder film based on subsequent viewings of it over the years...

His impression is that the film was probably 16 mm. format, but was not of an double-8mm. film. It was his strong impression that they were working with the original, but when asked whether there were images present between the sprocket holes, he said that it was his reasonably strong impression today that there were no such images present between the sprocket holes in the film he examined at NPIC. At one point, he described the film as “not high resolution.”

Meeting Report

Document Author: Doug Horne

Date Created: 8/14/97

Date of Meeting: 8/14/97

Meeting: Morgan Bennett Hunter, Homer McMahon, Doug Horne and Jim Goslee

I asked both men if they still recalled that their occurred prior to the President’s funeral, and they both emphatically said yes. Mr. McMahon said he believes they performed their work the night of the same day the President was assassinated, and Bennett Hunter said he was of the opinion they did their work on the second night after the assassination (i.e. Saturday night).

Homer McMahon remembered again that the Secret Service agent stated definitively that the assassination movie was developed in Rochester, and the copies of it were made in Rochester also, and he personally watched one of those copies projected at least 10 times that night prior to making the internegatives of selected frames. Mr. Hunter agreed that it seemed very likely to him that the copies of the motion picture film would “probably have been made at Rochester,” but did not independently recall that himself.

Homer McMahon recalled that Captain Sands was a Navy Captain who was one of the duty officers at NPIC; Bennett Hunter never did recall the name “Bill Smith” (the Secret Service agent remembered by McMahon), even after discussing the matter with McMahon.

Josiah Thompson

Jim...your summary is FANTASTIC. It is obvious that none of the ones

you mention has read Horne IV.

I am appreciative that Bill Kelly obtained the volume, read it, and switched

from being a doubter to a Horne believer. It proves that someone of

intelligence, when seeing Horne's meticulous documentation, should

no longer consider the Z film as evidence in the case. Just it opposite...

the provable fabrication of the Zfilm RAISES IMPORTANT QUESTIONS

OF WHY WAS IT FABRICATED...AND BY WHOM.

Jack

I second that! Great summary Jim

From the time I finished reading "Bloody Treason" back in 1997 until the present day I have believed in alteration 100%

I hope long time believers in the Z-film being authentic will see the light and come over to our side as Jim said

Start typing!

Well a simple please might make me want to do it

But ordering me to type it all out is not going to get me all pumped up to do it

And its X-mas

Give me some time and ask nicely and I will see what I can do

I'd like to see Ryan's study is it available anywhere?

Just buy "Bloody Treason"

Although you did not want to fork over $85.00 for Livingstones book I doubt you will buy BT either as it is very rare and always sels in the $100.00 range

I think you should invest in BT Len, not only can you re-sell it, the book may change your views on more then the Z-film alteration issue

Sorry Dean, I'm not spending $100 plus shipping to Brazil for an out of print self published book just to read a few pages even if I could resell it at a loss (because I'm shipping from Brazil). Perhaps you could scan those pages like you did the Wilson book. That way anybody reading this thread could read them as well. [Host them at a 3rdparty site non-members can see them too].Is Ryan's report really not available anywhere else?

Sorry Len

Im not going open the book up all the way to put on my scanner, the book is 900+ pages and very big

I do not want to mess up the spine or split the glue ends of the pages

Remember this book is not only valuable but its also my favorite, I want to keep it in mint condition

I could quote what Ryan says out of the book word for word

I'd like to see Ryan's study is it available anywhere?

Just buy "Bloody Treason"

Although you did not want to fork over $85.00 for Livingstones book I doubt you will buy BT either as it is very rare and always sels in the $100.00 range

I think you should invest in BT Len, not only can you re-sell it, the book may change your views on more then the Z-film alteration issue

Healy plays games to obfuscate the truth. Did Groden handle the original, he says he did, does Dave have any evidence to the contrary? .

Did Zavada examine the original Z-film from the National Archives? That isn't in dispute, Healy knows he did. Yet he said “To the best of my knowledge nobody has ever, EVER scrutinized the in-camera Zapruder camera original. If they had, I suspect the defenders of same would be all over the subject matter -- still, S I L E N C E!“. When the truth isn't on his side he blows smoke and tries to fool people.

Dave - Lying doesn’t become you nor the forum!!!!

3.5 years ago and this is still heating up.... the trolls have dropped the ball, again. So where is Gary M's latest dance concerning Doug Horne's take on Z-film alteration? Rumor has it he (Gary) has broken his silence...

Who has dropped the ball? UH, that would be the twinks who believe in the fairytale of zfilm alteration.... that would incude you davie.

Denial

You know that we are about to be vidicated

What are going to do when that happens? Crawl into a corn field and ask Shoeless Joe Jackson why?

Among all the MANY anomalies in the BYPs [multiple!], I dare anyone to stand at the angle 'Oswald' is standing and not fall over....or cry in pain having your finger tips cut-off....or complain not having your own chin on.....or be carrying two papers that represented opposing viewpoints...or having body proportions that don't match to the paper's known size, problems with the rifle, or the shadows being all wrong or the impossibility of hand held identical photo positions et al.....most of these first pointed out by Jack White. 

Doubt creators for doubt's sake are only here to create confusion and doubt and discredit good researchers [iMO] - while only really discrediting themselves and gives aid and comfort those in our society who were behind [or later covering up] these conspiratorial [not coincidental] crimes, and the CLEAR evidence of them before us. Cui bono from all this 'doubt' and rancid smoke and mirrors for doubt, smoke, and mirror's sake?

Great post Peter I was at the pain of having your fingertips cut off

Hey deano, why not give us your expert analysis of why you know the fingers are too short. That should be good for some grins tonight.

Peter is a Hall of Famer

Your still in Little League Craig

Yea, Lumpkin is in the A-holes hall of fame to be sure. He loves calling folks Nazi's. Really nice guy that Lumpkin.

And he's just like you deano...along with your master Jack. None of you can fight your eway out of a paper bag when it comes to photography.

Now about those stubby fingers deano...

Little league, eh,? Heck you don't even understand the game...

Do you need a link to Jacks study?

Among all the MANY anomalies in the BYPs [multiple!], I dare anyone to stand at the angle 'Oswald' is standing and not fall over....or cry in pain having your finger tips cut-off....or complain not having your own chin on.....or be carrying two papers that represented opposing viewpoints...or having body proportions that don't match to the paper's known size, problems with the rifle, or the shadows being all wrong or the impossibility of hand held identical photo positions et al.....most of these first pointed out by Jack White. 

Doubt creators for doubt's sake are only here to create confusion and doubt and discredit good researchers [iMO] - while only really discrediting themselves and gives aid and comfort those in our society who were behind [or later covering up] these conspiratorial [not coincidental] crimes, and the CLEAR evidence of them before us. Cui bono from all this 'doubt' and rancid smoke and mirrors for doubt, smoke, and mirror's sake?

Great post Peter I was at the pain of having your fingertips cut off

Hey deano, why not give us your expert analysis of why you know the fingers are too short. That should be good for some grins tonight.

Peter is a Hall of Famer

Your still in Little League Craig

Among all the MANY anomalies in the BYPs [multiple!], I dare anyone to stand at the angle 'Oswald' is standing and not fall over....or cry in pain having your finger tips cut-off....or complain not having your own chin on.....or be carrying two papers that represented opposing viewpoints...or having body proportions that don't match to the paper's known size, problems with the rifle, or the shadows being all wrong or the impossibility of hand held identical photo positions et al.....most of these first pointed out by Jack White. 

Doubt creators for doubt's sake are only here to create confusion and doubt and discredit good researchers [iMO] - while only really discrediting themselves and gives aid and comfort those in our society who were behind [or later covering up] these conspiratorial [not coincidental] crimes, and the CLEAR evidence of them before us. Cui bono from all this 'doubt' and rancid smoke and mirrors for doubt, smoke, and mirror's sake?

Great post Peter I was at the pain of having your fingertips cut off

not to mention the fact (forgive me, Jessica) that she thinks he's a hottie

No worries, when I was around 14 I thought Mary Moorman was sexy as could be

I had dreams of Mary giving me a super clear original picture that showed Badgeman so clear you could almost ID him, (remember its a dream so the picture had not faded like in real life) while she rubs my shoulders, whispers sweet nothings in my ear and well.......... I will stop there

get ULTIMATE SACRIFICE instead

Ultimate Sacrifice sucks

I think Doug Horne pretty well establishes the facts - two different caskets were delivered to Bethesda, one a bronze casket the president's body was placed in at Parkland, wrapped in sheets, and another, plain, shipping casket with a screw top, not hinges.

I always knew David Lifton was right, from the moment I finished Best Evidence back in 1988

I have read Best Evidence to many times to count

I consider it my comfort book, when im bored or need to use the bathroom I almost always grab my paperback edition to read (My hardcover has been read once by my grandpa and once by me, it is in stunning condition and I want it to stay that way)

I would have to say that my heroes in order are

1. Harold Weisberg

2. Penn Jones Jr.

3. David Lifton

Not to mention that Pig on a Leash in TGZFH was just a great read, I loved all the history behind the films/pictures and Liftons relationships with other researchers

I hope that Doug Hornes volumes will not only cement Liftons 2 casket/body alteration theory (as well as Fetzer, White, Mantik, Healy, Dellarosa, Bernice, myself and other alterationists theories) but bring his book back out in the open for the newer researchers who have never read Best Evidence

Only four more days until I get Dougs books from my wife for X-mas

I dont think I can wait that long, I may need to tear apart the closet use a razor to cut the gifts open, read chapter 14, put the book back and re-tape it

I DARE YOU... ..and we shall not hear from dean till after the first of the New Year..he will recover he is resting comfortably but not quietly...but he shall return... with doug horne's books beside hm...b

imo do not leave sylvia meagher out...

Your right Bernice, I better just leave them as my wife might hurt me if I get caught

I think Doug Horne pretty well establishes the facts - two different caskets were delivered to Bethesda, one a bronze casket the president's body was placed in at Parkland, wrapped in sheets, and another, plain, shipping casket with a screw top, not hinges.

I always knew David Lifton was right, from the moment I finished Best Evidence back in 1988

I have read Best Evidence to many times to count

I consider it my comfort book, when im bored or need to use the bathroom I almost always grab my paperback edition to read (My hardcover has been read once by my grandpa and once by me, it is in stunning condition and I want it to stay that way)

I would have to say that my heroes in order are

1. Harold Weisberg

2. Penn Jones Jr.

3. David Lifton

Not to mention that Pig on a Leash in TGZFH was just a great read, I loved all the history behind the films/pictures and Liftons relationships with other researchers

I hope that Doug Hornes volumes will not only cement Liftons 2 casket/body alteration theory (as well as Fetzer, White, Mantik, Healy, Dellarosa, Bernice, myself and other alterationists theories) but bring his book back out in the open for the newer researchers who have never read Best Evidence

Only four more days until I get Dougs books from my wife for X-mas

I dont think I can wait that long, I may need to tear apart the closet use a razor to cut the gifts open, read chapter 14, put the book back and re-tape it

Features in Zapruder public version 1 (Zpv1) absent from or different to Zapruder public version 2 (Zpv2):

1) Presidential limousine turning left from Houston onto Elm

2) No street sign interposed between camera and President at moment of impact of first bullet

3) Shooting took place further up Elm St towards Overpass, either opposite (or “abreast” of) Zapruder, or beginning at the steps leading up to the grassy knoll

4) Connolly’s white shirt visibly covered in blood following impact of shot

5) JFK’s head went forward in response to impact of head shot

Elements of Zpv1 (1) to (5) described in following:

1) Presidential limousine filmed turning left from Houston onto Elm:

• Abraham Zapruder on WFAA-TV, at 2:10pm CST, November 22, 1963: transcript: http://www.jfk-info.com/wfaa-tv.htm

• Dan Rather, CBS radio & TV, 251163: http://www.i-accuse.com/Rudd_Hotelet.html

• UPI (New York), “Film Showing Assassination Is Released,” The Valley Independent, (Monessen, Pennsylvania), Tuesday, November 26, 1963, Page 5 (description of film shown on WNEW-TV, NY, at 00:46hrs, November 26, 1963)

• Arthur J. Snider (Chicago Daily News Service), “Movies Reconstruct Tragedy,” Fort Worth Star-Telegram, (Evening edition), November 27, 1963, section 2, p.1

• Warren Report (U.S. Government Printing Office (1964), p.98

• Roy Kellerman, 090364 (2WCH91): http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/kellerma.htm

• Mark Lane. Rush to Judgment: A Critique of the Warren Commission’s Inquiry into the Murders of President John F. Kennedy, Officer J. D. Tippit and Lee Harvey Oswald (London: The Bodley Head Ltd., 1966), p.66, footnote 2

2) No street sign interposed between camera and President at moment of impact of first bullet:

• Dallas Morning News, “Photographer Sells Pictures of Assassination for $25,000,” November 24, 1963

• Dan Rather, CBS radio & TV, 251163 (Richard Trask. Pictures of the Pain, p.87): http://www.i-accuse.com/Rudd_Hotelet.html

• Associated Press (Dallas), "Movie Film Depicts Shooting of Kennedy,” Milwaukee Journal, November 26, 1963, part 1, p.3

• UPI (New York), “Film Showing Assassination Is Released,” The Valley Independent, (Monessen, Pennsylvania), Tuesday, November 26, 1963, Page 5 (description of film shown on WNEW-TV, NY, at 00:46hrs, November 26, 1963)

• UPI (Dallas), “Movie Film Shows Murder of President,” Philadelphia Daily News, Tuesday, 26 November 1963, p.3 (4 star edition)

• Express Staff Reporter (New York, Monday), “The Man Who Got the Historic Pictures,” Daily Express, Tuesday, 26 November 1963, p.10

• John Herbers, “Kennedy Struck by Two Bullets, Doctor Who Attended Him Says,” New York Times, November 27, 1963, p.20

• Arthur J. Snider (Chicago Daily News Service), “Movies Reconstruct Tragedy,” Fort Worth Star-Telegram, (Evening edition), November 27, 1963, section 2, p.1

• “The Man Who Killed Kennedy,” Time, December 6, 1963, p.29

• Abraham Zapruder (7WCH571): http://www.jfk-info.com/wc-zapr.htm

• William Manchester, Look magazine, 040467; Death of a President (London: Pan, paperback, 1968), p.234

3) Shooting took place further up Elm St towards Overpass, either opposite (or “abreast” of) Zapruder, or beginning at the steps leading up to the grassy knoll:

• Associated Press (Dallas), "Movie Film Depicts Shooting of Kennedy,” Milwaukee Journal, November 26, 1963, part 1, p.3

• John Herbers, “Kennedy Struck by Two Bullets, Doctor Who Attended Him Says,” New York Times, November 27, 1963, p.20

• Abraham Zapruder, 7WCH571: http://www.jfk-info.com/wc-zapr.htm

• Harold Feldman, “Fifty-one witnesses: The Grassy Knoll,” The Minority of One, March 1965, p.17

• John Herbers, “Kennedy Struck by Two Bullets, Doctor Who Attended Him Says,” New York Times, November 27, 1963, p.20

4) Connolly’s white shirt visibly covered in blood following impact of shot:

• Dan Rather, CBS, Radio & TV, 251163: http://www.etcfilmunit.com/iaccuse.html

5) JFK’s head went forward in response to impact of head shot:

• Dan Rather, CBS, Radio & TV, 251163 (Richard Trask, Pictures of the Pain (Danvers, Mass.: Yeoman Press, 1994, p.87): http://www.etcfilmunit.com/iaccuse.html

• Associated Press (Dallas), "Movie Film Depicts Shooting of Kennedy,” Milwaukee Journal, November 26, 1963, part 1, p.3

• UPI (Dallas), “Movie Film Shows Murder of President,” Philadelphia Daily News, Tuesday, 26 November 1963, p.3 (4 star edition)

• John Herbers, “Kennedy Struck by Two Bullets, Doctor Who Attended Him Says,” New York Times, November 27, 1963, p.20

• Cartha DeLoach, Hoover’s FBI: The Inside Story by Hoover’s Trusted Lieutenant (1995), p.139: http://www.kenrahn.com/jfk/the_critics/gri...Alteration.html

Most of the newspaper articles cited above can be found in the thread Eleven early print descriptions of the Zapruder film: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=8953

Very nice Paul!

Thanks Dean, Hogan's sense of humor is so dry I almost missed that.

Michael and I may have had a little scuffle but his sarcasm and dry humor is amazing

Colby again demonstrates why he is widely regarded to be one of the more intelligent members of the Education Forum.

His insightful contributions and precise writing skills have been a welcome addition to the JFK Assassination Debate.

Wow

he didn't see a forged version of the Z-film altered to make it appear JFK was shot 3 times from behind.

He saw the "other film" Len

Kathy,

Here's a photographic montage I did for the first edition of Larry Hancock's 'Someone Would Have Talked'.

Cheers,

James

Very nice James!

Thanks for posting that montage, it was saved to my computer the second I laid eyes on it

Dean

Do NOT miss this interview with Doug Horne here, nor to get all five of Horne's volumes immediately. The (official version) LN thesis [fantasy] can now be laid to rest, as was our President, polity and constitutional democracy on 11.22.63.

It is not a question of whether or not the USA was overthrown, but what we are now going to DO about it.....men or mice? And dismiss any idea that the overthrow was temporary - it continues still...everything from then to now - EVERYTHING is synthetic history; synthetic terror [by us!]. I'll stake my life on that....and have...more than most of you will ever know....

I only have two more weeks to wait

I am going to rip into these volumes with a fury

You better get ready Craig

Ready for what exactly Dean?

For some more hard data of Zapruder film alteration, which somehow you seemed to miss in TGZFH

Do NOT miss this interview with Doug Horne here, nor to get all five of Horne's volumes immediately. The (official version) LN thesis [fantasy] can now be laid to rest, as was our President, polity and constitutional democracy on 11.22.63.

It is not a question of whether or not the USA was overthrown, but what we are now going to DO about it.....men or mice? And dismiss any idea that the overthrow was temporary - it continues still...everything from then to now - EVERYTHING is synthetic history; synthetic terror [by us!]. I'll stake my life on that....and have...more than most of you will ever know....

I only have two more weeks to wait

I am going to rip into these volumes with a fury

You better get ready Craig

The Political Conspiracies section of the Education Forum has thrived, due in large part to Evan Burton's moderation and consistent enforcement of Forum rules.

Maybe the JFK Assasssination Debate section will experience similar benefits if he decides to play a larger role over here.

Amazing Hogan repeatedly criticized Evan's moderation of the PC section now that Evan admonished someone he is squabbling with Hogan says what a good job he did there.

BERNICE

WHY DO TYPE YOUR POSTS IN ALLCAPS? DON'T YOU REALIZE IT MAKES THEM HARDER TO READ AND THUS MORE LIKELY TO BE IGNORED?

LEN

I believe she does so because she has a bit of arthritis in her hands and all-caps makes it easier for her to post. I believe we'll need to see some evidence, preferably with citations, for your contention that all-caps "makes [posts] harder to read and thus more likely to be ignored."

And btw, they're right about the double standard applied for the member who is more or less constantly insulting and abusive.

Good day everyone

Most of my life, instead of my HANDWRITING using cursive script, I have always PRINTED

USING ALL CAPS. My handwriting was very difficult to read; my printing was easy to read.

I could print all caps MUCH FASTER, so did better on school tests. ALL CAPS if properly used

is easier to read in the same size font, because capital letters are larger than lower case

letters. Headline writers often use ALL CAPS to get attention, since it is easy to read.

As a lifelong art director, I was considered an expert in the proper usage of type. I always

used whatever was most suited to the job.

I do not understand the internet myth that ALL CAPS is harder to read or the equivalent of

shouting. These opinions are held by the uninformed.

Jack

I started writting in all caps around 8th grade

I have chicken scratch handwritting and if I didnt write in all caps it would be impossible for anyone sans my wife to read anything I wrote

I tried, and it was one of Jacks studies, but it did not fit your ridiculous guidelines

The guidelines were perfect. They were put in place for a reason, to keep the discussion on things that we could actually prove or disprove via the principles of photography and away from \\\"seeing stuff\\\" which is nothing more than opinion and handwaving. TGZFH had exactly TWO atttempts at proving the Z film fake based on fact and not handwaving or opinion.

Sadly for the the TGZFH gang, ( and the sheeple who follow them) both of those were monumental failures.

Do you want the links as to WHY those arguments failed...again?

I do not back Costellas work, so you posting those links for me for the 1000th time would be pointless