Bernice Moore

Hi Don perhaps he hasn't one or is still thinking on it...he will eventually but please do not get a complex because he hasn't as yet..it's not worth it....take care best b..do carry on...

HI CARL LOOKING AT IT THE OTHER WAY DO YOU NOT THINK OR EXPECT THAT IT SHOULD CAUSE TROUBLE...sorry for caps..best b..

She had literally “put her money where her mouth was” by forking out $ 795.90 for a 35 mm dupe negative of the Zapruder film from a source whose honesty and integrity could not be challenged by any future researchers: the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA).B..

Bernice and Bill, With all respect, that's not what I wrote. "In fact, if I were going to make an assumption, it would be that the original A roll, the family pictures, never left Dallas for Life or anywhere else. Why would Zapruder want to give them up and why would Life want them. As I wrote, that's assumption and speculation, we'll never know unless more information comes to light. " In short, we'll never know if Zapruder's family film left Dallas, unless we gather more information. I don't see how that's a ploy or clap-trap. I made it clear I was offering some speculation and suggesting that I could never be proven right unless we had more information. If that's part of the evil plan Bernice it's really, really subtle and I assure you, well beyond me. Bill, I'm with you. I've never been impressed with the "image anomalies", but some of Horne's information is new and exciting and I really want to know where it leads. That said, I think it's important to separate out the new facts from assumptions and speculation so we can determine what evidence is needed to really establish something interesting. It's definitely not my conclusion that we'll never know - but I do think there's more work to be done. Jerry Jerry, Certainly some of Zapruder's family film DID leave Dallas. A frame or two from the sequence of one of Zapruders children or grandchildren digging in a planter on a patio with a shovel was published in Esquire magazine, early 1970's as I recall. It accompanied the Stolley article on the film that appeared in that issue. Todd Here's one Todd...b

Jack & Bernice, You were correct, Jack. The article, including the part about Connally is online at the Mary Ferrell Foundation website. The first two pages are blank. The actual article begins on page 3. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/...amp;relPageId=1 Regards, Mike hi mike hope you and all are well and a happy new year been some time since i saw you around..thank you very much..appreciated now i shall have the rest of the story...take care...best b..

Jack the second part on Connally I NEVER HAD it was not available some years back when i copied this from the web...i wish and if possbly someone does it certainly would be appreciated...thanks fwiw... b START QUOTE THREE PATIENTS at PARKLAND This article is originally from the alts, found some years back, it was posted by Michael Parks...thanks... ........It came from "The Texas State Journal of Medicine", dated January, 1964. It was written in late November/early December, 1963 before the 'OFFICIAL' story was set in stone. I have been told, it is somewhat different, in content in some regards, than how it is found now on the web.? ..Though I have not checked...it is possible it could be.... Thanks....B Michael Parks.. Part One. THREE PATIENTS at PARKLAND PARKLAND Memorial Hospital, Dallas, treats an average of 272 emergency cases a day. It is adjacent to and is the major teaching hospital for the University of Texas Southwestern Medical School. It is staffed by the faculty of the medical school and has 150 interns and residents in all medical specialties. It is a modern hospital, well equipped, one of which any community might be proud. Today and for none of these reasons-Parkland has a new reputation all over the world, and historians are typing its name into manuscripts that will be textbooks for generations to come. This has happened because three particular gunshot victims were carried there out of the bright November sunlight, two to die and the third to leave by wheelchair almost two weeks later, his arm in a sling. Many Texas physicians have visited Parkland hospital; many have worked or trained there. Members of the Parkland staff are their acquaintances and friends. Many Texas physicians know personally the surviving gunshot victim, Gov. John Connally; some personally knew President John F. Kennedy, who died in Trauma Room 1; perhaps a few even knew Lee Harvey Oswald, the man charged by Dallas authorities with the assassination of the President and who was himself shot two days later. The assassination of President Kennedy, the wounding of Governor Connally, and the fatal shooting of Oswald are events of profound import to people everywhere, but they have special, personal meaning for Texans. So because a Texas hospital and Texas physicians figured prominently in this tragedy, the Texas State Journal of Medicine records for its readers of the medical profession a full account of treatment given a never-to-be-forgotten trio. When President John F. Kennedy in a moribund condition entered Parkland on Nov. 22, there was never opportunity for medical history taking. Such a history, had it been taken, would have shown that the patient "had survived several illnesses, the danger of war, the rigor of exposure in icy water, and . . . had waged grueling electoral campaigns in spite of a serious and painful back injury." Parkland records show that the President arrived at the emergency room sometime after 12:30 p.m. (There is conflict as to the exact moment.) At 1 p.m. Dr. William Kemp Clark, associate professor and chairman of the Division of Neurosurgery of the University of Texas Southwestern Medical School, declared him dead. During the interim of less than 30 minutes, continuous resuscitative efforts were made. Later that day, several attending physicians filed reports. The following identifies these physicians and gives the gist of their reports: Charles J Carrico - Dr. Carrico was the first physician to see the President. A 1961 graduate of Southwestern Medical School, he is 28 and a resident in surgery at Parkland. He reported that when the patient entered the emergency room on an ambulance carriage he had slow agonal respiratory efforts and occasional cardiac beats detectable by auscultation. Two external wounds were noted; one a small wound of the anterior neck in the lower one third. The other wound had caused avulsion of the occipitoparietal calvarium and shredded brain tissue was present with profuse oozing. No pulse or blood pressure were present. Pupils were bilaterally dilated and fixed. A cuffed endotracheal tube was inserted through the laryngoscope. A ragged wound of the trachea was seen immediately below the larynx. The tube was advanced past the laceration and the cuff inflated. Respiration was instituted using a respirator assistor on automatic cycling. Concurrently, an intravenous infusion of lactated Ringer's solution was begun via catheter placed in the right leg. Blood was drawn for typing and crossmatching. Type 0 Rh negative blood was obtained immediately. In view of the tracheal injury and diminished breath sounds in the right chest, tracheostomy was performed by Dr. Malcolm 0. Perry and bilateral chest tubes inserted. A second intravenous infusion was begun in the left arm. In addition, Dr. M. T. Jenkins began respiration with the anesthesia machine, cardiac monitor and stimulator attached. Solu-Cortef (300 mg.) was given intravenously. Despite those measures, blood pressure never returned. Only brief electrocardiographic evidence of cardiac activity was obtained. Malcolm 0. Perry - Dr. Perry is an assistant professor of surgery at Southwestern Medical School from which he received his degree in 1955. He I9 34 years old and was certified by the American Board of Surgery in 1963. At the time of initial examination of the President, Dr. Perry has stated, the patient was noted to be nonresponsive . His eyes were deviated and the pupils dilated. A considerable quantity of blood was noted on the patient, the carriage, and the floor. A small wound was noted in the midline of the neck in the lower third anteriorly. It was exuding blood slowly. A large wound of the right posterior cranium was noted, exposing severely lacerated brain. Brain tissue was noted in the blood at the head of the carriage. Pulse or heart beat were not detectable but slow spasmodic respiration was noted. An endotracheal tube was in place and respiration was being controlled. An intravenous infusion was being placed in the leg. While additional venesections were done to administer fluids and blood, a tracheostomy was effected. A right lateral injury to the trachea was noted. The cuffed tracheostomy tube was put in place as the endotracheal tube was withdrawn and respirations continued. Closed chest cardiac massage was instituted after placement of sealed-drainage chest tubes, but without benefit. When electrocardiogram evaluation revealed that no detectable electrical activity existed in the heart, resuscitative attempts were abandoned. The team of physicians determined that the patient had expired. Charles R. Baxter - Dr. Baxter is an assistant professor of surgery at Southwestern Medical School where he first arrived as a medical student in 1950. Except for two years away in the Army he has been at Southwestern and Parkland ever since, moving up from student to intern to resident to faculty member. He is 34 and was certified by the American Board of Surgery in 1963. Recalling his attendance to President Kennedy, he says he learned at approximately 12 :35 that the President was on the way to the emergency room and that he had been shot. When Dr. Baxter arrived in the emergency room, he found an endotracheal tube in place and respirations being assisted. A left chest tube was being inserted and cut-downs were functioning in one leg and in the left arm. The President had a wound in the midline of the neck. On first observation of the other wounds, portions of the right temporal and occipital bones were missing and some of the brain was lying on the table. The rest of the brain was extensively macerated and contused. The pupils were fixed and deviated laterally and were dilated. No pulse was detectable and ineffectual respirations were being assisted. A tracheostomy was performed by Dr. Perry and Dr. Baxter and a chest tube was inserted into the right chest (second interspace anteriorly). Meanwhile one pint of O negative blood was administered without response. When all of these measures were complete, no heart beat could be detected. Closed chest massage was performed until a cardioscope could be attached. Brief cardiac activity was obtained followed by no activity. Due to the extensive and irreparable brain damage which existed and since there were no signs of life, no further attempts were made at resuscitation. Robert N. McClelland - Dr. McClelland, 34, assistant professor of surgery at Southwestern Medical School, is a graduate of the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston. He has served with the Air Force in Germany and was certified by the American Board of Surgery in 1963. Regarding the assassination of President Kennedy, Dr. McClelland says that at approximately 12:35 p.m. he was called from the second floor of the hospital to the emergency room. When he arrived, President Kennedy was being attended by Drs. Perry, Baxter, Carrico, and Ronald Jones, chief resident in surgery. The President was at that time comatose from a massive gunshot wound of the head with a fragment wound of the trachea. An endotracheal tube had been placed and assisted respiration started by Dr. Carrico who was on duty in the emergency room when the President arrived. Drs. Perry, Baxter, and McClelland performed a tracheostomy for respiratory distress and tracheal injury. Dr. Jones and Dr. Paul Peters, assistant professor of surgery, ; inserted bilateral anterior chest tubes for pneumothoraces secondary to the tracheo-mediastinal injury. Dr. Jones and assistants had started three cutdowns, giving blood and fluids immediately. In spite of this, the President was pronounced dead at 1:00 p.m. by Dr. Clark, the neurosurgeon, who arrived immediately after Dr. McClelland. The cause of death, according to Dr. McClelland was the massive head and brain injury from a gunshot wound of the right side of the head. The President was pronounced dead after external cardiac massage failed and electrocardiographic activity was gone. Fouad A, Bashour - Dr. Bashour received his medical education at the University of Beirut School of Medicine in Lebanon. He is 39 and an associate professor of medicine in cardiology at Southwestern Medical School. At 12 :50 p.m. Dr. Bashour was called from the first floor of the hospital and told that President Kennedy had been shot. He and Dr. Donald Seldin, professor and chairman of the Department of Internal Medicine, went to the emergency room. Upon examination, they found that the President had no pulsations, no heart beats, no blood pressure. The oscilloscope showed a complete standstill. The President was declared dead at 1:00 p.m. William Kemp Clark - Dr. Clark is associate professor and chairman of the Division of Neurosurgery at Southwestern Medical School. The 38-year-old physician has done research on head injuries and has been at Southwestern since 1956. He reports this account of the President's treatment: The President arrived at the emergency room entrance in the back seat of his limousine. Governor Connally of Texas was also in this car. The first physician to see the President was Dr. Carrico. Dr. Carrico noted the President to have slow, agonal respiratory efforts. He could hear a heart beat but found no pulse or blood pressure. Two external wounds, one in the lower third of the anterior neck, the other in the occipital region of the skull, were noted. Through the head wound, blood and brain were extruding. Dr. Carrico inserted a cuffed endotracheal tube and while doing so, he noted a ragged wound of the trachea immediately below the larynx. At this time, Drs. Perry, Baxter, and Jones arrived. Immediately thereafter, Dr. Jenkins and Drs. A. H. Giesecke, Jr., and Jackie H. Hunt, two other staff anesthesiologists, arrived. The endotracheal tube had been connected to a respirator to assist the President's breathing. An anesthesia machine was substituted for this by Dr. Jenkins. Only 100 per cent oxygen was administered. A cutdown was performed in the right ankle, and a polyethylene catheter inserted in the vein. An infusion of lactated Ringer's solution was begun. Blood was drawn for typing and crossmatching, but unmatched type O Rh negative blood was immediately obtained and begun. Hydrocortisone (300 mg.) was added to the intravenous fluids. Dr. McClelland arrived to help in the President's care. Drs. Perry, Baxter, and McClelland did a tracheostomy. Considerable quantities of blood were present in the President's oral pharynx. At this time, Dr. Peters and Dr. Clark arrived. Dr. Clark noted that the President had bled profusely from the back of the head. There was a large (3 by 3 cm.) amount of cerebral tissue present on the cart. There was a smaller amount of cerebellar tissue present also. The tracheostomy was completed and the endotracheal tube was withdrawn. Suction was used to remove blood in the oral pharynx. A nasogastric tube was passed into the stomach. Because of the likelihood of mediastinal injury, anterior chest tubes were placed in both pleural spaces. These were connected to sealed underwater drainage. Neurological examination revealed the President's pupils to be widely dilated and fixed to light. His eyes were divergent, being deviated outward; a skew deviation from the horizontal was present. No deep tendon reflexes or spontaneous movements were found. When Dr. Clark noted that there was no carotid pulse, he began closed chest massage. A pulse was obtained at the carotid and femoral levels. Dr. Perry then took over the cardiac massage so that Dr. Clark could evaluate the head wound. There was a large wound beginning in the right occiput extending into the parietal region. Much of the right posterior skull, at brief examination, appeared gone. The previously described extruding brain was present. Profuse bleeding had occurred and 1500 cc. of blood was estimated to be on the drapes and floor of the emergency operating room. Both cerebral and cerebellar tissue were extruding from the wound. By this time an electrocardiograph was hooked up. There was brief electrical activity of the heart which soon stopped. The President was pronounced dead at 1:00 p.m. by Dr. Clark. M. T. Jenkins - Dr. Jenkins is professor and chairman of the Department of Anesthesiology at Southwestern Medical School. He is 46, a graduate of the University of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston, and was certified by the American Board of Anesthesiology in 1952. During World War II he served in the Navy as a lieutenant commander. When Dr. Jenkins was notified that the President was being brought to the emergency room at Parkland, he dispatched Drs. Giesecke and Hunt with an anesthesia machine and resuscitative equipment to the major surgical emergency room area. He ran downstairs to find upon his arrival in the emergency operating room that Dr. Carrico had begun resuscitative efforts by introducing an orotracheal tube, connecting it for controlled ventilation to a Bennett intermittent positive pressure breathing apparatus. Drs. Baxter, Perry, and McClelland arrived at the same time and began a tracheostomy and started the insertion of a right chest tube, since there was also obvious tracheal and chest damage. Drs. Peters and Clark arrived simultaneously and immediately thereafter assisted respectively with the insertion of the right chest tube and with manual closed chest cardiac compression to assure circulation. Dr. Jenkins believes it evidence of the clear thinking of the resuscitative team that the patient received 300 mg. hydrocortisone intravenously in the first few minutes. For better control of artificial ventilation, Dr. Jenkins exchanged the intermittent positive pressure breathing apparatus for an anesthesia machine and continued artificial ventilation. Dr. Gene Akin, a resident in anesthesiology, and Dr. Giesecke connected a cardioscope to determine cardiac activity. During the progress of these activities, the emergency room cart was elevated at the feet in order to provide a Trendelenburg position, a venous cutdown was performed on the right saphenous vein and additional fluids were begun in a vein in the left forearm while blood was ordered from the blood bank. All of these activities were completed by approximately 12:50 at which time external cardiac massage was still being carried out effectively by Dr. Clark as judged by a palpable peripheral pulse. Despite these measures there was only brief electrocardiographic evidence of cardiac activity. These described resuscitative activities were indicated as of first importance, and after they were carried out, attention was turned to other evidences of injury. There was a great laceration on the right side of the head (temporal and occipital), causing a great defect in the skull plate so that there was herniation and laceration of great areas of the brain, even to the extent that part of the right cerebellum had protruded from the wound. There were also fragmented sections of brain on the drapes of the emergency room cart. With the institution of adequate cardiac compression, there was a great flow of blood from the cranial cavity, indicating that there was much vascular damage as well as brain tissue damage. President Kennedy was pronounced dead at 1 p.m. It is Dr. Jenkins' personal feeling that all methods of resuscitation were instituted expeditiously and efficiently. However, he says, the cranial and intracranial damage was of such magnitude as to cause irreversible damage. end part one.... B...... Part III Lee Harvey Oswald On Nov. 24, two days after the shooting of President Kennedy and Governor Connally, an ironic event brought to Parkland the man whom Dallas police had charged with the murder of the President. Lee Harvey Oswald, 24, had been shot. Initial care and surgery were handled by Parkland physicians, including some of those who had cared for the President and the Governor. Oswald was brought into the emergency room at 11:32 a.m., to the operating room at 11:42 a.m. and at 1:07 p.m. he was pronounced dead in spite of all efforts. Dr. Shires.--The surgery performed on Oswald, who had been shot in the upper abdomen and chest, was done by Drs. Shires, Perry, McClelland, and Jones, and included an exploratory laparotomy, thoracotomy, and efforts to repair the aortu, vena cava, and multiple organ injuries. Dr. Shires has said that on previous inspection an entrance wound over the left lower lateral chest edge was revealed and an exit was identified by subcutaneous palpation of the bullet over the right lower lateral chest cage. At the time he wag geen preoperatively, Oswald was without perceptible blood pressure, his heart beat wag heard intermittently at 130 beats per minute, he had an endotracheal tube in place and was receiving only oxygen by ane8the8ia at the time he wag moved to the operating room. Under enaotracheal oxygen anesthesia, a long midline abdominal incision was made. Bleeders were not apparent and none were clamped or tied. Upon opening the peritoneal cavity, approximately 2 to S liters of blood, both liquid and in clots, was encountered. This was removed. The bullet pathway was then identified as having shattered the upper medial surface of the spleen, then entered the retroperitoneal area where there was a large retroperitoneal hematoma in the area of the pancreas. Following this, bleeding was seen to be coming from the right side, and upon inspection, there was seen to be an exit to the right through the inferior vena cava, thence through the superior pole of the right kidney, the lower portion of the right lobe of the liver, and into the right lateral body wall. First the right kidney, which was bleeding, was identified, dissected free, retracted medially, and the inferior vena cava hole was clamped with a partial occlusion clamp of the Satinsky type. Following this immobilization, packing controlled the bleeding from the right kidney. Attention was then turned to the left, as bleeding was massive from the left side. The inspection of the retroperitoneal area re-vealed a huge hematoma in the midline. The stomach had been penetrated by the bullet. The spleen was then mobilized, as was the left colon, and the retroperitoneal approach was made to the midline structures. The pancreas appeared to be shattered in its midportion; bleeding was seen to be coming from the aorta. This was dissected free. Bleeding was controlled with finger pressure by Dr. Perry. Upon identification of this injury, it was seen that the superior mesenteric artery had been sheared off of the aorta; there was some back bleeding from the artery. This was cross-clamped with a small, curved DeBakey clamp. The aorta was then occluded with a straight DeBakey clamp above and a Potts clamp below: At this point all major bleeding was controlled, blood pressure was reported to be in the neighborhood of 100 systolic. Shortly thereafter, however, the pulse rate, which had been in the 80 to 90 range, was found to be 40, and a few seconds later found to be zero. No pulse was felt in the aorta at this time. Consequently, the left chest was opened by Dr. Perry through an intercostal incision in approximately the fourth intercostal space. A Finochietto re-tractor was inserted, and the heart was seen to be flabby and not beating at all. There was no hemopericardium. There was a hole in the diaphragm but no hemothorax. A left closed suction chest tube had been introduced while the patient was in the emergency room prior to surgery, so that there was no significant pneumothorax on the leM side. The pericardium was opened, cardiac massage was started, and a pulse was obhinable with massage. The heart was flabby, consequently calcium chloride followed by 1 mg. epinephrine hydrochloride and 90 mg. Xylocaine Hydrochloride were injected into the left ventricle. The standstill converted to fibrillation. Following this defibrillation was done, using 240, 860, 500, and 750 volts, and finally successful defibrillation was accomplished after a second attempt with the defibrillator. However, no effective heart beat could be instituted. A pacemaker was inserted into the wall of the right ventricle and grounded on skin, and pacemaking was started. A very feeble, small, localized, muscular response was obtained with the pacemaker, but still no effective heart beat. At this time Dr. Shires was informed by Dr. Jenkins that there were no signs of life in that the pupils were fixed and dilated, there was no retmal blood flow, no respiratory effort, and no effective pulse could be maintained even with cardiac massage. The patient was pronounced dead at 1:07 p.m. Anesthesia consisted entirely of oxygen. The patient was never conscious from the time of his arrival in the emergency room until his death at 1:07 p.m. The subcutaneous bullet was extracted from the side during the attempts at defibrillation which were' rotated among the surgeons. The cardiac massage and defibrillation attempts were carried out by Drs. McClelland, Perry, and Jones. Assistance was obtained from the cardiologist, Dr. Bashour. Dr. Jenkins.--In a statement concerning resuscitative efforts for Oswald, Dr. Jenkins reported that Dr. Jones, after being notified through the office of the administrator of the hospital, informed a surgical and anesthesiology team that Lee Harvey Oswald had sustained a gunshot wound and was being -brought to the emergency operating room for emergency and definitive treatment. By the time that the patient, Oswald, was registered into the emergency operating room, there was assembled a resuscitative team in the emergency operating room surgical room. Dr. Jenkins recalls that the following physicians were members of the resuscitation team: Drs. Jenkins and Akin, with an anesthesia machine and full resuscitative equipment for the maintenance of ventilation; Drs. Gerry Gustafson, Dale Coln, and Charles Crenshaw, all residents in surgery, who were prepared to introduce cannulae in-to the veins via cutdowns or percutaneous puncture; Dr. Jones with chest drainage equipment; Dr. William R. Osborne, resident in orthopedics, for necessary orthopedic services; and Dr. William Risk, resident in urology, for evaluation of possible urological damage. Dr. Perry was present to direct the surgical approach. There were many other medical personnel present in addition to these, but the physicians named figured importantly in the initial resuscitative experience, Dr. Jenkins said. As the patient, Oswald, was brought into the operating room, Dr. Akin introduced a #36 cuffed endotracheal tube and connected it to an anesthesia machine for assisted ventilation or controlled respiration with oxygen. It was obvious that the patient was in extremis as judged by his general pallor, the cold extremities, the dusky or ashen gray color of his nail beds, his gasping respiration, and his dilated pupils and dry conjunctiva. There was a small, oval, traumatized area in approximately his left anterior axillary line at approximately the sixth intercostal space, and a foreign object, thought to be a bullet, could be palpated in his right posterior axillary line at about thoracic dermatome ten. No time was expended in making these observations and evaluation of the patient's status, for at the time the endotracheal tube was being inserted, three members of the staff were performing venous cutdowns, one in each lower extremity and one in the left forearm, These were performed by Drs. Coln, Crenshaw, and Gustafson. Because of the obvious chest wound and appearance of pneumothorax on the left, Dr. Jones inserted a chest tube and connected it to a closed waterseal drainage bottle. The head of the emergency room cart was lowered into a Trendelenburg position. There was no perceptible peripheral arterial pulsation. How-ever, the cardioscope tracing showed electrical cardiac activity with a heart rate of approximately 130 per minute. Blood was sent to the blood bank for immediate typing and crossmatching, and two units of uncross-matched type 0, Rh negative blood was started by pressure infusion from plastic blood containers. It was obvious that this patient had sustained such an injury that he was continuing to lose blood internally very rapidly. Drs. Shires, McClelland, and Perry collaborated in the decision to move the patient immediately to the main operating suite for emergency laparotomy, since the suspected path of the bullet would seem to traverse the left leaf of the diaphragm, the aorta and inferior vena cava, and perhaps the right kidney and part of the liver. (Dr. Risk had inserted a Foley catheter into the urinary bladder, obtaining only a scant quantity of urine which was not blood tinged. With the anesthesia machine still connected to the patient, he was transported to the elevator and into the operating room which had already been prepared for emergency surgery. The abdominal incision was made at 11:44 a.m., 12 minutes from the time the patient was first admitted to the emergency operating room. The operating team consisted of Drs. Shires, McClelland, Perry, and Jones. The anesthesia team consisted of Drs. Akin, Jenkins, and Dr. Harlan Pollock, resident on anesthesiology. In describing the patient's condition and the parasurgical considerations, Dr. Jenkins says that by the time of the beginning of surgery, type-correct blood (A-1, Rh negative) was available and was administered under pressure through the three venous cutdowns. Dr. Curtis Spier, fellow in anesthesiology, cannulated a vein in the right forearm to aid in fluid replacement. Under the influence of blood administration and pulmonary ventilation with 100 per cent oxygen, the patient's pulse rate slowed from 130-160 to 80 per minute, and by 12 o'clock he had a discernible peripheral blood pressure, recorded at about 60 systolic, and by 12 :10 p.m. his blood pressure was 90/60 and his pulse rate remained regular at 80 per minute. By 12:16 p.m. he had received 3000 ml. of blood and 800 ml. of 6 per cent dextrose in lactated Ringer's solution. Estimated and measured blood loss at this time was 4000 ml. By 12 :30 p.m. he had received 6000 ml. of blood and 1 gm. of calcium gluconate intravenously. His measured blood loss at this time was 6000 ml., and it was also obvious that an additional quantity was sequestered in his bowel lumen and bowel wall. At this time the surgical and anesthesia teams consulted about the patient's fluid status and decided that he needed a quantity of balanced salt solution; therefore, in two of the cutdown veins, 6 per cent dextrose in lactated Ringer's solution was begun. (Despite this rapid blood and fluid replacement, the patient's pulmonary status seemed satisfactory in that there was no perceptible change in compliance, as judged by the resistance to ventilation by compressing the reservoir breathing bag. At 12 :37, Dr. Akin, who was monitoring the heart sounds with a chest stethoscope, reported that the cardiac tones were becoming weaker and the pulse rate was slowing from the previous rate of 80, to 60, to 40, to 30, and then became imperceptible. (These changes in rate were verified by a change in electrical activity as shown on the cardioscope.) Palpation of the heart through the diaphragm from the abdominal operating site was performed by Dr. Shires, who reported that he could not feel cardiac activity and he noted that the aorta had now ceased to pulsate. Dr. Perry opened the left chest with an incision at approximately the fourth interco8tal space, extending from the sternum laterally to the left anterior axillary line. Under direct vision it was verified that rhythmic cardiac activity had ceased, the heart was dilated. Ten milliliters of 10 per cent calcium chloride were injected into the chamber of the left ventricle. The heart, which had been flaccid prior to this injection, showed an increase in muscular tone and was not dilated. One mg. of epinephrine hydrochloride in 90 mg of 1 per cent lidocaine was injected into the left ventricular chamber, reducing the heart in overall size. Ventricular fibrillation ensued. Manual cardiac systole (cardiac massage) was begun by Dr. Perry while the internal defibrillation apparatus was readied. Four attempts at ventricular defibrillation were made, with Dr. McClelland applying the defibrillation paddles to the heart, utilizing successively voltages of 240, 360, 600, and 760 without successfully effecting defibrillation. Between the applications of the defibrillation paddles, manual cardiac systole was continued alternately by Drs. Perry and McClelland. At 12 :55 p.m., the internal pacemaker, provided by Dr. Bashour, was attached to the heart, but the electrical stimulus provided by this pacemaker was not effective in producing visible cardiac systole. Two other attempts at internal defibrillation were made. The second defibrillating current produced asystole, but the internal pacemaker still did not stimulate effective cardiac activity. Manual cardiac systole was re-started, causing palpable carotid pulse, but the patient's obvious external appearance was that circulation was ineffective as judged by the development of an ashen gray cyanosis. With an ophthalmoscope, Dr. Jenkins had periodically checked the retina for circulation during the resuscitative processes, and the retina could be visualized until 1:06 p.m., when it was apparent that the lens had become opaque, and retinal circulation was not observed. The patient was pronounced dead at 1:07 p.m. The bullet which was palpable in the right posterior axillary line was removed and sent out by the operating room supervisor, Miss Audrey Bell, to be turned over to the legal authorities. As a summary of fluid replacement, this patient received 16 and 1/2 units of blood and 4200 ml. of 6 per cent dextrose in lactated Ringer's solution. It is Dr. Jenkins personal feeling that all methods of resuscitation were instituted expeditiously and efficiently. Having observed this patient from the time he was wheeled into the emergency operating room, Dr. Jenkins felt that Oswald sustained a period of cerebral hypoxia or anoxia for the period of time lapsing between the gunshot wound which he received and the time that effective ventilation with oxygen was started in the emergency operating room. Considering the cerebral changes which would begin at the time of initial anoxia, notably cerebral edema, Dr. Jenkins felt that many vital centers, including the cardiovascular center, were irreparably damaged, despite all resuscitative measures, introducing the final cardiac asystole. The trauma which patient Oswald had sustained was too great for resuscitation. END QUOTE The information on the third patient Gov. John Connally, is not available, so far.... Thanks for your time.....

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The tape copy first provided to the HSCA by Mary Ferrell was determined to be a multiple generation copy http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/...iew_and_History b..

Bernice and Bill, With all respect, that's not what I wrote. "In fact, if I were going to make an assumption, it would be that the original A roll, the family pictures, never left Dallas for Life or anywhere else. Why would Zapruder want to give them up and why would Life want them. As I wrote, that's assumption and speculation, we'll never know unless more information comes to light. " In short, we'll never know if Zapruder's family film left Dallas, unless we gather more information. I don't see how that's a ploy or clap-trap. I made it clear I was offering some speculation and suggesting that I could never be proven right unless we had more information. If that's part of the evil plan Bernice it's really, really subtle and I assure you, well beyond me. Bill, I'm with you. I've never been impressed with the "image anomalies", but some of Horne's information is new and exciting and I really want to know where it leads. That said, I think it's important to separate out the new facts from assumptions and speculation so we can determine what evidence is needed to really establish something interesting. It's definitely not my conclusion that we'll never know - but I do think there's more work to be done. Jerry well jerry bill pointed out the we'll never know and i have been reading that posted more and more often so it has begun to be noticed...a bit of spec is fine if it does not get carried away to the great beyond as i see it...i will continue to read the posts and take more notice of what is being repeated and what now may suddenly be dropped that also sometimes happens when such is pointed out...a change of venue comes about..but yes there is certainly much more work to be done but it is coming together somewhat fast and furious now..a wonderful gift from doug horne...b

Dr. Thompson, Why seize it? Why indeed, especially if "friends or sympathizers" have control over the camera original and the 3 optical film prints... btw, who said it was a government conspiracy? Cover-up? Now that is another story... I'll have more to follow later... DHealy Dr. Thompson, question, to the best of your recollection has there ever been an air-check film or dub made of any live broadcast showing the Zapruder film broadcast on ANY carrier service (independent, network affiliate or indeed one of the big three tv networks)? If so, made by whom, what circumstances, the air date and time when(s) and where the telecast originated.... please? David Healy Yes, in the days following the assassination, did the original and the three copies ever come together again? BK Bill David All I have wondered what exactly Lilian Zapruder meant when she stated to David Lifton..that Abraham had given them the film...he has her on tape..from Pig On A Leash thanks b..

In response to Pamela's post above EVERYTHING I want people to know TODAY is in my Black Op interview done on December 3, 2009. It is almost two hours long. I would be grateful if one of you could post this. Unfortunately, I can only respond to questions via one of you. I have tried to join the forum for several months and while I can read posts as a non-member I am unable to open attachments. I understand it is frustrating for me and inconvenient to you. Doug Weldon .... http://www.blackopradio.com/archives2009.html SHOW 451.......... I SINCERELY HOPE THAT SOME PEOPLE WILL READ THIS AND COMPREHEND FINALLY...IF AND WHEN HIS MEMBERSHIP IS ENABLED HE WILL MOST CERTAINLY RESPOND DIRECTLY TO YOU..AND THE WHOMEVERS ..THANK YOU VERY MUCH AND FOR NOW FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE ENOUGH .. B

You are making the assumption that Tink was looking at the same version of the Altgens 1-6 that Weldon was. The NARA copy, made from the negative, shows no defect in the windshield. Copies of the version uploaded to the newswires have a flaw that looks like something in the windshield. I tried uploading the NARA copy but it was too large. For the time being, here is a link to that section: http://www.in-broad-daylight.com/altgens1-6snbl.gif This is ridiculous. Newswire copies were not used to examine the hole. I encourage people to listen to my interview on Black Ops. In addition there appears to be a deliberate attempt to obscure that defect as shown in the slides of my presentation in Minnesota in 1999, http://www.blackopradio.com/archives2009.html Doug Weldon Is Doug Weldon expecting everyone else to do his homework for him? He is unable to post for himself, and he refers us to an old interview where we have to search to find out what he said. Why not speak plainly and tell us today exactly what you want us to know? With your own login, like all the other responsible researchers here. PAMELA DID YOU NOT CHECK FOR YOURSELF AND OPEN THE LINK TO SEE THE BLACK OP 2009 ARCHIVES LINK I POSTED PREVIOUSLY, DOUGS SHOW WAS TAPED IN DECEMBER 2009 IT IS NOT OLD...HE CANNOT POST AS YET BUT BE ASSURED HE WILL SOON TO YOU DIRECTLY WHEN HIS MEMBERSHIP IS ENABLED...HE WILL UNDOUBTABLY SPEAK VERY PLAINLY TO YOU AND THE WHOMEVER YOUR US IS ..PLEASE EXCUSE THE CAPITOLS I HAVE PREVIOUSLY EXPLAINED THE REASON WHY AT TIMES I MUST..SEVERAL TIMES..THANK YOU..B PLEASE CHECK FOR YOURSELF AND THE WHOMEVERS READ.AND HEAR.... http://www.blackopradio.com/archives2009.html SHOW 451.......... show #451.

TIMELINE OF JACK RUBY TIMELINE OF JACK RUBY'S ACTIVITIES November 20–24, 1963. by M. A. Moyer and Betty Windsor. PREFACE. I. JACK RUBY TIMELINE OF ACTIVITIES 11/20—11/24/63 ... karws.gso.uri.edu/JFK/issues_and...Ruby/Timeline_of_Ruby.html - MARTHA AND BETTY'S RUBY TIMELINE FOR ANY WHOM HAVE NOT AVAILED THEMSELVES OF IT..MANY THANKS MARTY TAKE CARE..BEST B..EXCUSE CAPS THANKS..

BILL''And I don't accept your conclusion that we'll never know, as we are learning more every day, and it's getting exciting, isn't it?'' BILL ANY THOUGHTS..I HAVE BEEN READING WITHIN SOME POSTS OF LATE THIS WE'LL NEVER KNOW CLAP TRAP IMO...IS THIS TO BE OR IS THIS THE NEWEST PLOY LINE...IMO THAT IS CRAP AS YOU SAY ''I think we are closer now than ever before. '' SOUNDS TO ME LIKE A NEW EXCUSE BEING FORMULATED WHICH WILL be ADDed TO AS IT CONTINUES I HAVE NO DOUBT...BY THOSE WHO BASICALLY DO NOT BELIEVE THE ZAPPY IS ALTERED...AND IN THE PAST HAVE LET THAT BE KNOWN..I ALSO SEE ONE IN PARTICULAR CLIMBING ON THE BAND WAGON SUDDENLY TRYING TO GIVE THE IMPRESSION OF EITHER BEING A CONVERT , OR SUGGESTING THEY ALWAyS PERHAPS kNEW THERE WAS SOMETHING WRONG WITHIN...WHY ??SO THAT WHICHEVER WAY THE RESULT FALLS WILL BE THEY THINK ON SAFE GROUND WITHIN THE ALTS FORUMS AND OTHERS...HMMM ONE NEVER KNOWS, IT CERTAINLY IS GETTING INTERESTING...IMO... B, EXCUSE CAPITOLS THANKS...MUCH..

Essay - Acoustics Overview and History - MFF would have to be a copy. Mary Ferrell, who along with Gary Mack brought .. communicating over two radio frequencies, both of .. originals, the Bowles tapes are considered to Essay - Acoustics Overview and History - MFF B..

You are making the assumption that Tink was looking at the same version of the Altgens 1-6 that Weldon was. The NARA copy, made from the negative, shows no defect in the windshield. Copies of the version uploaded to the newswires have a flaw that looks like something in the windshield. I tried uploading the NARA copy but it was too large. For the time being, here is a link to that section: http://www.in-broad-daylight.com/altgens1-6snbl.gif This is ridiculous. Newswire copies were not used to examine the hole. I encourage people to listen to my interview on Black Ops. In addition there appears to be a deliberate attempt to obscure that defect as shown in the slides of my presentation in Minnesota in 1999, http://www.blackopradio.com/archives2009.html Doug Weldon

b...info confirming the telephone operator's information of a call from lbj that she picked up and past along to the operating room.........b

hi karl.. i believe in the video he says the cerebellum was there, meaning if you have read his book he makes it clear and or read this below he has made it very clear it was there oozing out lke they could see it..the hit to the head had destroyed and disturbed partly blown away,,,that part of the blow out of the back of his head... so that is was in view see below Sept. 22/92...Pacifica Radio Investigates The Murder of President Kennedy see also his book... GARY NULL: By the way, Dr. Crenshaw is also the author of a very important work on the Kennedy Assassination called, JFK: THE CONSPIRACY OF SILENCE, which right now, I believe, is number one on the New York Times bestseller list. Isn't it? DR. CRENSHAW: Yes, it is. GARY NULL: And, by the way, THREE other books on the top-ten bestseller list are also about this assassination, so CLEARLY there is interest. Would you be good enough to explain to us the inconsistencies between your EYEWITNESS account and the official report upheld by the Warren Commission? DR. CRENSHAW: That day, on November the 22nd, 1963, all of the surgeons at Parkland believed that our President, John Fitzgerald Kennedy was shot at least once from the front. We saw two wounds there. Both of them were from the front. The head wound was tangential in nature, coming in over the right side, above his ear, and leaving a large exit area, a avulsed area in the right-rear part of the head. There was loss of part of the parietal, temporal and most of the occipital lobe of the right cerebral hemisphere, with exposure of the cerebellum. It was about two-and-a-half to two- and-three-fourths inches in diameter. It was more or less circular. And in the photos from the National Archives -- which are so damaging -- this wound had completely vanished. There was no wound seen in the exhibits that are marked "B" and "E" in the book. This wound, that ALL of the physicians at Parkland described, was completely gone. The second wound was in the anterior part of the neck. It was about three to six millimeters in size and with an arc the size of your little finger. It was clearly demarcated as round and relatively clean-cut. Then the tracheal tube that had been put down was ineffective. And then Dr. Perry performed a tracheostomy through the entrance wound. The incision was sharp with smooth edges, and about an inch to and inch-and-a-half long. It was no longer than the flange on the tracheostomy tube, which was one-and-three-fourths inches. Not only that, after the nurses had removed this tracheostomy tube before we placed him in the coffin, it was brought back again. The edges were still smooth and very sharp. And in the autopsy photographs that I first saw in looking for the head wound, this wound was widely gaping, it was irregular, and it was now about two-point-five to three inches long. So there was CLEARLY a change between these wounds, that I saw at Parkland, and the wounds that we saw on the autopsy pictures that were given from the National Archives. GARY NULL: Why didn't you or others at the scene later complain or even make an issue or an affidavit showing that this was an alteration? DR. CRENSHAW: We never saw the photos. The first time I saw these was in early 1991. The Parkland physicians were never given this opportunity. They were only told about the additional wounds (which I doubt whether there was another wound in the back of the head, because I looked there) and were never told or shown any other evidence. We were told only about the autopsy. And we, like most people, felt that they would have had the best forensic minds in our country to examine our President. However, obviously, [from] what has been discussed and what we now know, [that assumption] was wrong. And so, we had no other knowledge other than the description by the Secret Service. GARY NULL: So if you had the description by the Secret Service, by an extension of this logic, the Secret Service or someone would have had to participate in this cover-up, or this obstruction of information. Would that be a reasonable assumption? DR. CRENSHAW: I think that's a very reasonable assumption. GARY NULL: Alright. Do you believe that the shots came just from the Book Depository, or from the Grassy Knoll, or from where? DR. CHARLES CRENSHAW: I cannot say that, but he WAS shot twice from the front. And I assume, also, that he was shot from the back. So there could not have been just one shooter; that is, Oswald. We spent all of the next week from the 22nd to the 29th [of Nov. `63], trying to figure out (as we had been told the official version: that it was Oswald) how in the world the President could have been shot from the front when Oswald was supposedly the lone shooter. And on December the 5th of that year, it was the same way with the Secret Service. They reenacted the assassination, and it was their ability there, trying to show how he was shot from the front, yet being shot from the School Book Depository. It was a question in everyone's mind. GARY NULL: We know that there was one bullet that missed the bodies of both Kennedy and Connally completely, because it ricocheted off of the cement. There is absolute evidence of that. The ricochet struck one of the people standing right on the curb. That meant that there had to have been four bullets shot, at minimum. We know then of three. There is an estimate of six. There were acoustical recordings showing six shots. So even if we assume that there were four, the Warren Commission claims that there were not four. DR. CRENSHAW: Yes. GARY NULL: Now, how in the world is it possible for one shooter, from the Book Depository, firing at a moving target, to get off four rounds in what would have to have been under approximately four-point-eight seconds. And even extending it to six seconds, it's not humanly possible. No one has ever been able to duplicate that. DR. CRENSHAW: No. And I don't think they ever will be. And one other thing. I also took care of, post-operatively, Governor Connally. And Connally and Mrs. Connally (Nellie) have always stated that he was not hit by the same bullet that the President was hit by. He stated that post-operatively, and he has also stated it recently. GARY NULL: Alright. The Secret Service's refusal, against [Parkland] Hospital policy and Texas law, to allow an autopsy to be performed on JFK, and the swift removal of the President's body from the hospital to Air Force One and back to Washington, D.C. .... Give us your insights on that, please. DR. CRENSHAW: Well, you know, this is the reason. I was a junior resident, staying there preparing the President's body along while the nurses were preparing him. But I would stay there because this is just a law, and we MUST have a chain of evidence if we were going to prosecute whoever had shot the President. Then, all of a sudden, there was such a hubbub with the Secret Service. They would not have the autopsy performed there, even though our forensic pathologist, Dr. Earl Rose, had told them, in no uncertain terms, that this had to be. So they asked the administrator to get a justice of the peace. A very young, uneducated justice of the peace came there. And he even talked with the district attorney and the chief of police, and he was told that he should at least have an autopsy or a bullet. However, he chose to go along with the Secret Service and sign the death certificate. Also, in so doing, he checked the inquest that was performed. That was merely his walking at the head of the room, looking in. And also, he checked that an autopsy was performed. And I can assure you, there was no autopsy performed there. Then, at Mrs. Kennedy's request and [that of] the Secret Service, the coffin was brought in, and it is the one that is described. It was the large bronze coffin. And there, we put a rubberized sheet there, and a clear plastic mattress cover over that to keep the blood from getting into the satin. He had, initially, towels around the head, but he had bled through that, and Mr. O'Neill, of the O'Neill Funeral Home, put several rubberized sacks (we had no good plastic then), and then we placed him in the coffin. After, again, I looked at the head wound and placed a sheet over the President, with his clothes at the bottom. And there was no body bag at Parkland. He had just a sheet over there. And the coffin was the bronze one that all the pictures were made [taken of] at Andrews Air Force Base. GARY NULL: Isn't it rather unusual that a Dr. Boswell would state that he is now removing head bandages? What is the significance of that statement? DR. CRENSHAW: I do not know. Boswell is also the one who has said, of course, that the tracheostomy was almost three inches long. And it was not that [length] when it left Parkland. But he did have those rubberized sacks over his head. This is the only thing that I could have thought: that maybe they thought it was a body bag. But there was NO body bag. GARY NULL: Okay. I'm going to go now to Paul O'Connor. Mr. O'Connor, are you on the line? PAUL O'CONNOR: Yes sir. GARY NULL: And Dr. Michio Kaku, are you on the line? MICHIO KAKU: I'm on the line. GARY NULL: Okay. We're going to come to both of you in just a second, but I want to follow this train of thought: Lyndon Johnson's direct order to YOU, Dr. Crenshaw, to obtain a deathbed confession from Lee Harvey Oswald during an emergency surgery to save his life .... DR. CRENSHAW: Yes, this was on that Sunday. Obviously, we did not watch the TV. And the head administrator of Parkland called for a free operating team to come to the emergency room. We went there. We were told that Oswald was coming in. At least we were prepared. So immediately, in seven-and-a-half minutes, we got Oswald up to the operating room, and operated on him on the cart. We didn't even place him on an operating table. After all of the attending staff .... some even at home had seen this [the shooting on TV] .... they immediately came. And Dr. Perry initially started the operation. I was an assistant there. So when all of the attending staff arrived, I scrubbed out, was standing there, and looked at this funny looking gentleman over there on the left side. But, of course, Parkland was so wild then. People were in every corner there. This man looked like the comedian, Oliver Hardy, in a small scrub suit. He did have a badge out of his front pocket, and a very large gun out of the back pocket. And I thought: Well gee, it's just something weird again at Parkland. The nurse tapped me on the shoulder then and asked me if I would take the phone call. I went to the operating room supervisor's office, picked up the phone, and there, a voice like thunder said: "This is the President, Lyndon B. Johnson. How is the accused assassin doing?" And I said: "Well, he's critical. He's lost a lot of blood, but he is holding his own." He said: "Would you take a message to the chief operating surgeon?" And I said, obviously: "Yes sir." He said: "There is a man in the room, and I want him to take a deathbed confession as soon as possible." DR. CHARLES CRENSHAW: So I went back, I tapped Dr. Shires[?] on his shoulder and he looked at me because everything was bedlam there. And I said: "I've just been talking to the President of the United States, and that man over there is to take a deathbed confession." And we both just kind of looked and knew that, had Oswald survived, he wouldn't have been able to talk for two or three days anyway. Consequently, because of the ravages of hemorrhagic shock, Oswald's heart started failing and ultimately fibrillating. We tried all of the resuscitative measures -- chemical injections and starting with the shocks -- but to no avail. So I then went over and tapped this guy on the shoulder and said: "There'll be no deathbed confession today." So Oliver Hardy melted away again. I don't know who he was. I don't know how he got there. The only interesting part is that I know that the President of the United States knew that he was in the room. GARY NULL: Give us again the astonishing differences between the Dallas medical team's account of the JFK wounds and the findings of the official Bethesda autopsy team. DR. CRENSHAW: The most striking, of course, is the head wound which is right at the back of the head at this occipit. It was in the right-rear portion, in the occipital area. It was about the size of a baseball. In the official pictures of the autopsy, this wound had vanished. It was completely gone. And then the neck wound which had the tracheostomy performed there, which was an inch to an inch-and-a-half -- smooth, sharp edges, EVEN when the tracheostomy tube was removed. This is now gaping, irregular and was three inches in length [in the Bethesda autopsy]. GARY NULL: The Parkland Hospital's nervousness about residents treating the President, which resulted in the Warren Commission's failure to obtain crucial statements from the attending medical staff .... Would you give us some background on this please? DR. CRENSHAW: Well, basically, there were thirty visits -- twenty-four of them by the Secret Service and six by the FBI -- in which they talked to different physicians and nurses there. And it's interesting that not ONE of these conversations was given to the Warren Commission. GARY NULL: Not one of thirty? DR.CRENSHAW: Not one! GARY NULL: What does that tell you? What does that imply? DR. CRENSHAW: It would imply that they didn't want to hear any contradictory remarks. GARY NULL: Alright. What is your feeling about Robert Kennedy's involvement in any possible cover-up? DR. CRENSHAW: I've always felt that maybe he wanted to become president so that he could reopen this investigation. Three days before HIS assassination, in a small community college, he announced to everyone that only the power of the Presidency could unravel the mystery of his brother's death. And he was, of course, assassinated then. But immediately, Mrs. Lincoln, John Fitzgerald Kennedy's secretary, called Senator Ted Kennedy and told him of artifacts that the Kennedy Family had in their possession. And he told her not to worry; that everything was taken care of. So the implication has been that the attorney-general or Senator Kennedy, at that time, did have important information that he had sequestered there, so that, if it were at all possible, he could reopen this investigation. GARY NULL: And lastly, Jacqueline Kennedy's immediate reactions and behavior following the shooting? DR. CRENSHAW: I thought Mrs. Kennedy was very regal. She was standing there initially. We asked her to sit outside the room. And then, of course, after his death we did not officially pronounce him dead because of her request for a priest and the last rites. The priest arrived, and she walked into the room after him. We had pulled the sheet up. It was a little short. She stopped at the foot and kissed his great toe, and then went forward and stood there holding his right hand, listening to the last rites. Immediately after that, she took her wedding ring off and placed it on the President's little finger. It would not go past the knuckle, and so when she came in, after they had had the harangue about the autopsy, and before we placed him in the coffin, one of our orderlies there -- I believe it was Aubrey Wright -- helped her get the ring on his small finger. I had read many accounts of how their marriage was just that, in name only. But being in trauma surgery now for thirty years, I have seen grievances and unhappiness and definite examples of removing the facade of what one felt. And I still will always believe that there was no greater example of genuine and intense love for the President than that exhibited by Mrs. Kennedy. GARY NULL: I want to thank you very much, Dr. Crenshaw, for sharing your insights with us in this special report on cover-ups. DR. CHARLES CRENSHAW: Thank you. GARY NULL: Now let's shift gears. I want to go over to two other panelists standing by: Dr. Michio Kaku, Professor of Theoretical Physics here at CUNY, the City University of New York. Would you give us your comments about the physics of the exhibit 399, the single magic bullet? http://www.beyondweird.com/conspiracies/jfkmessages.html FYI B..

quote Dr Thompson from post 107....''(4) Again in MIDP, you publish the famous Altgens photo taken at Z 255 and showing the windshield pristine and undamaged. You circle a pristine area of the windshield and caption the circle as follows: “Circle 1. The apparent through-and-through hole in the windshield.” But there isn’t any hole. There isn’t even any suggestion of a hole. The surface of the windshield is pristine. Doug Weldon has responded to this and article on http://www.blackopradio.com/archives2009.html show #451. b..

any thoughts ?? I take the above to mean and i could be in error that mr.zapruder's camera was used to take photos of as it states ''and we also took motion pictures with Mr. Zapruder's camera from Zapruder's position with the car in the fixed locations as they were established with the car just stationary in those locations."" anyone any idea...?? what fixed locations ,with the car just stationary , the limo supposedly never stopped...????? thanks b The car was not shot in motion. Surveyors established the car locations based on Zapruder photos and Shaneyfelt photographed the stationary cars at those locations. The WC even provides the surveyor elevation figures based on the limo position as it turned from Houston onto Elm. Shaneyfelt used a 4x5 Speed Graphic from the pedestal. If they took any photos using the Zapruder camera, the films are not in any record. Jack thankyou Jack that clarifys that for moi and all...appreciated...no they were not in the mary ferrell photo records that i looked at...thanks best b..

Happy New Years to you as well. I used Newman and Zapruder because they are the only close-by witnesses I could find who demonstrated their impression of the wound location on 11-22. Another close-by witness, James Chaney, told a TV interviewer JFK was hit in the face. It is undoubtedly intriguing that none of these men, who saw Kennedy while he was still upright, thought the large head wound was on the back of JFK's head. As far as the Willis family, none of them were quoted till many months later, and they were some distance away. From their perspective, it would have been incredibly hard--probably impossible--to differentiate between an explosion of blood from the top of JFK's head while he was moving away from an explosion of blood from the back of his head. Even so, the FBI report on Marilyn Willis, the most consistent of the family, reported that she saw a "red halo" erupt from the top of Kennedy's head, not the back of his head. Phil Willis, moreover, not only testified that he did not see the impact of the final shot (which he apparently believed was the head shot) he testified that "The minute the third shot was fired, I screamed, hoping a policeman would hear me, to ring that building because it had to come from there." Pat check these out..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmfqDOnZu_Q FRANK O'NEILL RIGHT REAR Interviews - Phil Willis & Family video'sfrom gil jesus http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2-_UhD3Qgk witnesses The back of his head blew off http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVhZdryIs_A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh0-2Sthn9A the large back of the head wound.. the Doctor's JFK's head wound http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhWJowvbtxs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P29j9PFZBM wound was in the back of his head to the right... b.. Exactly my point, Bernice. In light of their original statements, the 25 year removed statements of the Willis family are not exactly credible. If you can find records of them describing the shooting and talking about a wound on the back of the head prior to this time, however, I will add them to my database. hi pat ; well we differ again but as usual not nastily...of course if anything comes up i would be delighted to see that you get a copy...meanwhile we all carry on...i certainly hope that you have never recalled any information somewhat with a difference 25 years back...as if so you would now be called not credible...crap on the witnesses time seems to come around so very often in the these threads on the forum...they are always in error and those that say so were not there... In my impression, the arrow above points to the hair and scalp overlying the broken bones on the back of Kennedy's skull, and not an actual blow-out where bullet brain and blood exited the skull. As far as eyewitnesses...I agree with you that many refuse to take them seriously, and that if they did they would see that more than one shooter was likely. In chapters 5 thru 9 I go through the eyewitnesses and list their statements in chronological order. This makes it painfully obvious that the closest witnesses, almost to a man, thought the president was hit by the first shot they heard, and hit in the head by one of the two bullets fired bang-bang five or six seconds later. This is extremely damaging to the "official" story. Thus the WC made the conscious decision to ignore the closest witnesses. hi pat have a further lookie at these from the nix film do you also know what is being thrown up into the air after mr.kennedy is hit in the head can't be hair and scalp overlying the broken bones on the back of his scull as you mention re the zapruder film and it cannot be such as dust from the wind. imo...it is his head matter being blown out from the back of his scull..caught on the NIX FILM...imo the w/c is an ugly fairy tale they made up as it went along...ignoring all and every that disagreed...dishonest crap in otherwards was and still is....b..ps some gifs work some no longer so i have replaced ...one...

Happy New Years to you as well. I used Newman and Zapruder because they are the only close-by witnesses I could find who demonstrated their impression of the wound location on 11-22. Another close-by witness, James Chaney, told a TV interviewer JFK was hit in the face. It is undoubtedly intriguing that none of these men, who saw Kennedy while he was still upright, thought the large head wound was on the back of JFK's head. As far as the Willis family, none of them were quoted till many months later, and they were some distance away. From their perspective, it would have been incredibly hard--probably impossible--to differentiate between an explosion of blood from the top of JFK's head while he was moving away from an explosion of blood from the back of his head. Even so, the FBI report on Marilyn Willis, the most consistent of the family, reported that she saw a "red halo" erupt from the top of Kennedy's head, not the back of his head. Phil Willis, moreover, not only testified that he did not see the impact of the final shot (which he apparently believed was the head shot) he testified that "The minute the third shot was fired, I screamed, hoping a policeman would hear me, to ring that building because it had to come from there." Pat check these out..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmfqDOnZu_Q FRANK O'NEILL RIGHT REAR Interviews - Phil Willis & Family video'sfrom gil jesus http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2-_UhD3Qgk witnesses The back of his head blew off http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVhZdryIs_A http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sh0-2Sthn9A the large back of the head wound.. the Doctor's JFK's head wound http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhWJowvbtxs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P29j9PFZBM wound was in the back of his head to the right... b.. Exactly my point, Bernice. In light of their original statements, the 25 year removed statements of the Willis family are not exactly credible. If you can find records of them describing the shooting and talking about a wound on the back of the head prior to this time, however, I will add them to my database. hi pat ; well we differ again but as usual not nastily...of course if anything comes up i would be delighted to see that you get a copy...meanwhile we all carry on...i certainly hope that you have never recalled any information somewhat with a difference 25 years back...as if so you would now be called not credible...crap on the witnesses time seems to come around so very often in the these threads on the forum...they are always in error and those that say so were not there... In my impression, the arrow above points to the hair and scalp overlying the broken bones on the back of Kennedy's skull, and not an actual blow-out where bullet brain and blood exited the skull. As far as eyewitnesses...I agree with you that many refuse to take them seriously, and that if they did they would see that more than one shooter was likely. In chapters 5 thru 9 I go through the eyewitnesses and list their statements in chronological order. This makes it painfully obvious that the closest witnesses, almost to a man, thought the president was hit by the first shot they heard, and hit in the head by one of the two bullets fired bang-bang five or six seconds later. This is extremely damaging to the "official" story. Thus the WC made the conscious decision to ignore the closest witnesses. hi pat have a further lookie at these from the nix film do you also know what is being thrown up into the air after mr.kennedy is hit in the head can't be hair and scalp overlying the broken bones on the back of his scull as you mention re the zapruder film and it cannot be such as dust from the wind. imo...it is his head matter being blown out from the back of his scull..caught on the NIX FILM...imo the w/c is an ugly fairy tale they made up as it went along...ignoring all and every that disagreed...dishonest crap in otherwards was and still is....b

any thoughts ?? I take the above to mean and i could be in error that mr.zapruder's camera was used to take photos of as it states ''and we also took motion pictures with Mr. Zapruder's camera from Zapruder's position with the car in the fixed locations as they were established with the car just stationary in those locations."" anyone any idea...?? what fixed locations ,with the car just stationary , the limo supposedly never stopped...????? thanks b

Dean, What kind of film was the FBI using? Todd still posting from Wendy's eh, Todd? I expected better from you old chap -- this rates up there with you and .joihn shooting at overstuffed, non-moving sandbags at 50 yards then declaring: yep, old Oswald got off 3 shots under 8 seconds.... the question we should ALL be asking is why did the 6th Floor Museum deny Rollie Zavada use of Zapruder's B&H 414PD film camera for his ARRB tests? let's get serious, huh? Todd did you record this earth shattering test with sandbags for us to watch? The “test” that Dave alludes to was not a “test” at all – rather it was just an opportunity for some JFK researchers at an informal gathering to fire a Model 91/38 Mannlicher Carcano – nothing less, nothing more. What you should find “earth shattering is that Dave falsely claims here that we fired at sandbags when we fired at a pumpkin or two left over from Halloween, that we fired at 50 yards when we fired at about 25, and , most importantly, that after the shooting I made some grand declaration about Oswald doing the shooting when in fact I did not. Why would Dave say such things, Dean, when they are untrue? And how does it feel to have been misled by Dave? i have one todd did you all hit the pumpkins or just the sand bags..or neither .just wondering..??.b

Rosemary Willis. She was questioned. Jack No Jack, Rosemary runs along, early on in the film, while this little girl is just standing there in all of the frames she is in - standing back behind Jean Hill and friend. Here: http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2009/12...provenance.html That's not Rosemary, is it? Thanks, BK The only person behind Moorman in the frame that you posted is Toni Foster, who is not a little girl at all but an adult who was running in every frame in the Z-film not standing still, she has been questioned and identified Have you ever heard of the running woman? Have you ever heard of Toni Foster? I hope you are talking about someone else but the frame you posted a link to shows only Toni Foster in the background, because if you are talking about Toni Foster and think she was a little girl who was just standing still I have to ask Bill have you ever studied the Z-film or the background witnesses? No, I have not studied the people in the Z-film, but I'd like to know who this person is. If you go to that link above and look that that picture frame there is a little girl on the grass in the background about twenty feet behind and to the right of Jean Hill. I went back every frame she is in and she is not running, but just standing there. Who is she? Thanks, BK BILL This is research done by debra conway at LANCER called the RUNNING WOMAN FROM A FEW YEARS BACK IN ONE OF HER CHRONICLE MAGAZINES..TONI'S INFORMATION AS GIVEN. SOME HAVE COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT within her information it refers TO MISSING ZAPRUDER FRAMES WITHIN THE FILM...B SORRY FOR SOME CAPITALS..

kATHY BE ASSURED....THE MAN ON THE RIGHT IS JAMES FILES NOT NORTON..TAKE CARE B