David Von Pein

So, you think it's more reasonable to believe that the shots that Connally said he heard coming FROM BEHIND really came from the FRONT (or at least one of those shots anyway), even though we KNOW that at least one of the shots that was fired that day definitely DID come from behind Connally (based on the fact Connally was physically hit by that bullet IN THE BACK, which means it HAD to have come "from behind")? Is that about the size of your argument, Ray? If so, you need to re-think a few things. Because that theory is really bizarre and unreasonable (from virtually every perspective).

I disagree, Pam. As do many others -----> jfk-archives/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-940.html You really think this is merely a "shadow", Pam? .... Plus, how does the "side window" play any part in this at all? We're not looking through that side window to see Connally's lapel. The lapel is to the left (east) of the window. What am I not understanding about your "side window" claim, Pam? Am I not understanding the angles that you think are involved here? In addition, I could also make a pretty fair argument that, at least in part, Connally's necktie is bulging outward as a result of the lapel physically touching the tie and causing it to move too. It's hard to tell, but I think what I just said about the lapel hitting the tie could possibly have some merit.

You must be joking this time, Ray. The things you mentioned above regarding Governor Connally fit the "Lone Assassin" and "SBT" scenarios beautifully. In fact, it's perfect. Everything John Connally has said over the years regarding the things he had first-hand knowledge of has been perfectly consistent with the Single-Bullet Theory and the overall "Oswald Did All The Shooting From The Sixth Floor Of The Book Depository" scenario. Connally was hit in the back by the shot that was directly IN-BETWEEN the two shots he heard coming from "back over my right shoulder". Ergo, the shot he felt hit him (but did not hear) obviously ALSO had to have come from the same general direction as the two shots he did hear---i.e., from behind him. There's nothing inconsistent or unbelievable about any of Connally's testimony whatsoever. And it fits the SBT to a tee. As for JBC's belief that he and JFK were struck by different bullets --- that belief almost certainly stemmed in large part from his wife's belief that JFK reacted first and then JBC reacted after Kennedy. But Nellie certainly wasn't aware of all of these ultra-fast reactions that took place an instant after Z224. No way she saw all this flinching and lapel movement and grimacing and arm raising and tie displacement. What Nellie saw, instead, were her husband's SECONDARY and VOLUNTARY reactions, which began just a short time later. And in her mind, she thought the reactions of the two victims were separated by a lengthier period of time than they really were. And who could blame her? I think any of us probably would have thought the same thing Nellie thought, given the circumstances. But if I had a chance to show the late Mrs. Connally and the late Governor Connally the in-motion GIF clips presented below, I'm confident that I could make SBT believers out of both of them in less than 15 minutes.... http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2013/02/sbt-clips.html

Mark Knight, of course, will just ignore the fact that John Connally's "ALL OF THE SHOTS CAME FROM BACK OVER MY RIGHT SHOULDER" testimony is buttressed by all of the physical evidence that was found in a building that was located BACK OVER CONNALLY'S RIGHT SHOULDER. Funny coincidence there, huh?

Well....uh....let me think.... Maybe he could tell by the sound of the shots? Could that possibly have been it?

And by that, can I assume that you DO believe ALL of John Connally's testimony and statements? Including this statement?.... "All of the shots came from the same place--from back over my right shoulder. They weren't in front of us. They weren't at the side of us. There were no sounds like that emanating from those directions." -- John Connally; 1967; CBS-TV

Right. Therefore, their statements and "hands on" demonstrations are consistent with the Z-Film. I'm glad you agree. That's fine with me. Do whatever you want. I don't care. I'm just putting out the information for people to examine. And as we can see (and hear) in the video and audio excerpts I provided, nowhere in those interviews do Mr. Zapruder or Bill Newman or Gayle Newman ever say anything about seeing the BACK of President Kennedy's head blown open. And if we're to believe the Parkland doctors and most conspiracy theorists, the hole in the BACK of JFK's head was massive. How could Zapruder and the Newmans have missed it? Anyway, the point is: the early witnesses who were interviewed (Zapruder and the Newmans) said things that are perfectly consistent with what we see in the Zapruder Film.

Then maybe you can explain why two of the closest witnesses to the President's car at the time of the assassination--Abraham Zapruder and Bill Newman--have always said (from Day 1) that the SIDE of JFK's was blown open---not the BACK of his head. I guess CTers must think that the "real killers" had lady luck on their side that day when both Zapruder and Newman went on television within two hours of the shooting (and in Newman's case, within 20 minutes of the last shot being fired) and told Jay Watson of WFAA-TV exactly what they saw, with Zapruder even demonstrating where the President's head "practically opened up" --- and it wasn't the back of the head at all... "If I thought it came from the sixth floor, I'd most definitely tell you so. If I thought it came from the picket fence, I'd certainly tell you so. The reality of it is--I don't know." -- William E. Newman; July 10, 2003 Audio with William Newman: box.com/Interview Excerpt With Bill Newman (July 2003) Also See: jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/02/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-657.html

Post-election phone call on November 7, 1962: JOHN F. KENNEDY -- "I don't know why we do anything for Dallas." JOHN CONNALLY -- "I'll tell you, they just murdered all of us."

What makes you think Connally should have instantly collapsed into a heap in the car after he was shot? I know that there have been some conspiracists over the years who have advocated the notion that John Connally was not hit by ANY bullet until AFTER President Kennedy was shot in the head. But it's fairly obvious (to me) that when looking at the Zapruder Film in motion, Connally has been injured well prior to Z313. It's very clear (to me) that he is exhibiting a considerable amount of distress just after Z-Film frame 224 and in the frames that immediately follow.... Plus, we know from Governor Connally's own testimony and his many public interviews after the assassination (four of which can be found below) that he didn't say "My God, they're going to kill us all" until AFTER he was hit by the bullet.... "I immediately, when I was hit, I said, "Oh, no, no, no." And then I said, "My God, they are going to kill us all"." -- John Connally; 1964 WC Testimony "Then I said right after I was hit, I said, "My God, they are going to kill us all"." -- John Connally; 1978 HSCA Testimony And we can easily see in the above Z-Film excerpt that Mr. Connally's mouth is moving and he is most certainly SAYING SOMETHING as he turns around in his seat. Now, conspiracy theorists can always argue that we really can't KNOW for a fact WHAT the Texas Governor was uttering as we see his mouth moving in the above pre-Z313 frames, but that argument is not a very strong one in light of the testimony of both John and Nellie Connally, who testified that the ONLY words being uttered by the Governor immediately after he was shot were "Oh, no, no, no" and "My God, they're going to kill us all". Perhaps what we need is a really good lip reader to examine the Zapruder Film to nail down exactly what words Governor Connally is saying in the silent film. Plus, the theory about Connally not being hit by a bullet until after the JFK head shot is defeated by the additional testimony of John Connally, who always said the third shot (the head shot to JFK) occurred AFTER Connally himself had already been hit. That fact is very plain whenever listening to Mr. Connally recount the events of 11/22/63. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7UZlseF-KY ALSO SEE: jfkassassinationforum.com/topic12298.msg383527 jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2013/02/sbt-clips.html

Thank you, James.

With each passing post, James, your level of SBT Denial skyrockets to brand new heights never before attained by any other CTer I've ever encountered. BTW, are you still sticking to this fantasy?..... "Nor does John Connally’s hat begin to flip at Z 226 forwards." -- James R. Gordon ....Even though I have proven you wrong multiple times--even with an individual slide of Z226? It's this one, which shows the white blob in front of JBC. What's that white thing here, if NOT Connally's Stetson?....

This once again proves something Vincent Bugliosi said dozens of times during his book tour in 2007.... Conspiracists won't believe anything even when there's a photo or a FILM that shows what is happening. Vince, as usual, is 100% correct.

Hogwash, James. I told you three days ago that I had examined the individual frames (224, 225, and 226), using the Costella individual frames, which are good-quality versions. Here's what I said on May 12th.... "You're coming up with lots of lame excuses to totally discount ALL of the obvious signs of distress on JBC in the Z-Film. You're now even denying that Connally raised his right arm quickly at Z226. But it took me three seconds to confirm you don't know what you're talking about. The following three frames are from Costella's Z-Film frames at James Fetzer's website. These are frames 224, 225, and 226. And every single thing you say is NOT in these frames, I can easily see. E.G., the hunching of JBC's shoulders is easily discernible when toggling between frames 224 and 225 here. And the white blob that appears in Z226 is also very visible, and that white blob is, of course, Connally's light-colored Stetson hat as he rapidly raises it in front of his face after Oswald's bullet has ripped through his wrist 2 frames earlier. All of this is easily seen if you line these three frames up in separate tabs in your browser and then toggle back and forth between them..... http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z224.jpg http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z225.jpg http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z226.jpg http://assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/" -- DVP; 5/12/15

BTW, another thing that is happening with JBC in the above clip is that his head moves DOWNWARD just slightly at Z225. This can be "measured" (at least in part) by looking at Jackie and then comparing the level of Connally's head to Jackie's in Z225. JBC's head moves a little LOWER than Jackie's head behind him. This type of head movement (akin to a "ducking" motion) is also in perfect harmony with all of Connally's other movements at Z225 --- the flinching shoulders, the opening of his mouth, the startled look (which is not there on his face at Z224, at least as far as I can tell; but, I'll grant you, the frames aren't super clear, but they are clear enough to make these basic determinations, IMO). And I also detect Connally's eyes closing shut for one frame at Z225 too. Again, perfectly consistent with an involuntary flinch right after he was shot. So, we've got.... Flinching of the shoulders. Scrunching of the head downward. Mouth opening. Eyes closing. Lapel flipping. All in just Z224 and Z225 alone. Then, just one frame later, that hat flip---which James says is just a figment of my imagination too.... And yet, even with all of the above, according to CTers, Connally HASN'T been hit by a bullet yet. The bullet's going to hit him in another one second or so (probably even less than that). And his RIGHT WRIST is going to get smashed by that bullet---which, per CTers, HASN'T yet hit him as of Z226, even though the same RIGHT ARM/WRIST goes flying upward at 226. Go figure that. I sure can't. That's a lot of stuff for me to be fooled by, don't you think? It's a whole array of things in Z224-227 that James Gordon is filing in his folder labelled.... Things that appear to be happening to John B. Connally in the Z-Film, but aren't really happening at all. It's all due to either "corrupt" video frames, Mr. Zapruder's camera movement, and/or the simple fact that Governor Connally is merely turning to his left in his seat. Yeah, sure James. And I'm going to win TWO lotteries next week.

I haven't ignored your explanation, Jim. I've been laughing at it, because it's so amazingly wrong (and silly) in light of what is clearly visible in this film clip....

REPRISE.... JAMES R. GORDON SAID: These “jerky” and “startled” reactions that you talk about only occur between Z 226 and Z 228. And these are blurred frames. These reactions have nothing to do with John Connally, they are a consequence of Zapruder moving his camera... DAVID VON PEIN SAID: Once again, James is wrong on the frame numbers. The "jerky" reactions by Connally begin at Z225, not Z226. And here's yet another GIF showing the jerks and flinches of JBC (this clip ends at Z225)....

JAMES GORDON SAID: In post 44 you agreed that between Z 222 and Z 230 John Connally is indeed seen to be turning left. And this is critical to this whole story. Between Z 222 and Z 230 John Connally is turning left to face forward. The dispute here is that in making this turn you are interpreting moments in this turn as demonstrating evidence that John Connally has been wounded when in fact all that is happening is that John Connally is turning to his left. DAVID VON PEIN SAID: Let me repeat my earlier question that I asked you a day or two ago.... "It couldn't be more obvious that Connally's shoulders are shrugging from a flinch starting at Z225, and yet I'm supposed to believe it only looks that way because JBC is turning to his left. Does EVERY "left turn" made by all limo occupants give the false appearance of "shoulder shrugging", James? Get real." JAMES GORDON SAID: Nor does John Connally’s hat begin to flip at Z 226 forwards. DAVID VON PEIN SAID: That's an astonishing statement, James, in light of the fact that I've already provided you with SIX different versions of the Z-Film (collected by me from various Internet sources, including the MPI "Image Of An Assassination" digital version), which ALL show the hat flip beginning at the exact same moment--Z226. Here once again is one of those six versions produced earlier, and this is a good quality version, which positively proves you are wrong regarding the hat flip. It's occurring at Z226, just like in all of my other versions. Deny it if you desire, but it's here just the same: JAMES GORDON SAID: These “jerky” and “startled” reactions that you talk about only occur between Z 226 and Z 228. And these are blurred frames. These reactions have nothing to do with John Connally, they are a consequence of Zapruder moving his camera... DAVID VON PEIN SAID: Incredible, Jim. Simply incredible. Your denial has reached a new zenith. It's not an easy task to totally dismiss so many VISUAL clues about John Connally's reactions that everybody can easily see right before their own eyes. But you have managed to accomplish it. My congratulations go out to you.

Let me try this approach.... 1.) James R. Gordon knows for a fact that John B. Connally was shot by a rifle bullet on 11/22/63 at a point in time which James also knows is very close in "real time" to Zapruder frames 224-230 (give or take a FRACTION OF A SECOND). 2.) Therefore, since #1 is so obviously true, there is probably a point in the Zapruder home movie that shows Connally's initial reaction(s) to being hit by the bullet that injured him. 3.) As I have illustrated about 99 times now, Zapruder frames 224 to 227 indicate some definite changes in Governor Connally's appearance that could very easily be said to be "involuntary startle reactions" to some kind of external stimulus. 4.) When factoring in #2 and #3, in tandem, what do you suppose the odds are that the movements by John Connally seen in Zapruder frames 224-227 are movements that have nothing whatsoever to do with the injuries sustained by John Connally at almost that exact same time (give or take a FRACTION OF A SECOND)? 5.) There are no frames in the Zapruder movie AFTER approx. Z230 in which any kind of "jerky" or "startle" type reactions can be seen with respect to Governor Connally's movements. With the above five things in mind, James, do you still want to stick with this conclusion?.... "It is these same extraordinary results that allow members like you to suggest that these very frames actually suggest that John Connally is reacting to being struck by a bullet when - in fact - he has not been struck." -- J. Gordon

I'm co-owner of a KFC restaurant in central Indiana. JFK-related segue (sort of).... "Did You Know?" .... that Colonel Sanders was the very first contestant on the first episode of the popular CBS-TV game show "What's My Line?" to be aired after President Kennedy's assassination (December 1, 1963).... DVP-Potpourri.blogspot.com/2010/04/game-shows-with-colonel-sanders.html

Why not? What's bizarre about it? We know a bullet DID go through the right side of John Connally's coat at just about the same time as the lapel flip. And we know the wind was pretty gusty that day. So why would a theory incorporating both of those known FACTS be considered "bizarre" in any way at all? You can't possibly prove it was ONLY the wind that moved Connally's lapel. Just as I cannot possibly prove that it was a combination of "bullet + wind". But I have at least SOME evidence to back up my theory---a bullet hole in the right half of John Connally's jacket. It's not a hole in the LAPEL, that's true enough. But there IS a hole in the right side of the jacket, which is a jacket that likely MOVED at least a little bit when the bullet passed through it. Case totally NOT closed (on this point).

You seem to have figured that out already ----> educationforum.com/entry301967

And the Single-Bullet Theory sure as heck doesn't need "no stinking lapels" either, Ron. As I explain in detail at my SBT site.

I made my position clear on the "lapel flip" five years ago, Bob..... "Due to the apparent movement of that same part of Connally's jacket at a point which I believe was PRIOR to the bullet passing through JBC's body, I've revised my thinking on the "lapel flip" over the years. I now feel it's quite possible that a combination of the wind (which was gusty that day) and Oswald's CE399 bullet are causing the movement of Connally's lapel that we see in the Zapruder Film. .... In the final analysis, the "lapel flip" or "jacket bulge" is probably the LEAST compelling evidence on the Z-Film that proves the SBT is occurring at precisely Z224. There are multiple other indicators that show JBC is "reacting" to an external stimulus just after Z224." -- DVP; April 23, 2010 -------- And just two days ago, I said this to you.... "Bob, The wind probably caught ahold of the lapel after the bullet passed through Connally's jacket, causing it to flip up more dramatically. Is that not at least POSSIBLE, Robert?" -- DVP; 5/13/15 And, Bob, since you yourself have said that you think the wind caused ALL of the lapel flip, then my above explanation HAS to make sense even to an anti-SBT CTer like you.

Revised website link below (updated by DVP in order to archive the astounding amount of total denial exhibited by members of The Education Forum relating to the obvious signs of distress visible in Governor Connally's reactions when viewing Abraham Zapruder's motion picture film).....