David Von Pein

Of course YOU don't have a hard time believing he took six minutes....because you erroneously think the time Tippit was shot was 1:10, right? In reality, of course, Bowley's call came about 3.5 to 4 minutes after the shooting (with Bowley getting through to the dispatcher at 1:18 after Benavides pumped the mike for 90 seconds). Which means Benavides got on the radio just about 2 minutes after Tippit was shot. A perfectly reasonable time estimate too. But 10 minutes is ridiculous.

And you, of course, will continue to ignore the OTHER stuff Roberts said IMMEDIATELY after she said "3-4 minutes" --- i.e., that LHO was in his room just long enough to get a jacket and put it on. (Which takes, what?, 15 seconds or so.) I'll bet you didn't even watch the Frederic Forrest re-creation of Oswald's "In His Room" actions, did you? This is the only "re-creation" like this I've ever seen done on this matter: http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/in-lee-harvey-oswalds-room.html

Still waiting for Farley's horn theory. Of course, as we all know, NO JFK CONSPIRACY THEORY about the horn-honking makes a lick of sense, but that fact doesn't matter to conspiracy-seeking clowns like Farley. He likes the idea that the horn-honking was "conspiratorial", so, ergo, it's going to be conspiratorial.

Nice job at explaining that horn-honking, Lee. I knew you'd "cop" out.

That is 100% correct. That is also correct. Hat trick. I usually either toss a coin (a '64 mint-condition Kennedy half-dollar, naturally)....or I call up my CIA handlers at Langley and they push my buttons and tell me what to type into this box. Either way, I still get paid a goodly sum. (And if my Langley boss is busy, I call up Marquette and get instructions from you-know-who.)

I think a much more interesting "coincidence" is the one that has a DPD car honking its horn in the exact same "tip-tip" manner in front of 1026 North Beckley Avenue in Oak Cliff that Mrs. Roberts said had occurred on multiple other occasions PRIOR to 11/22/63. Is there a statistician in the house? Because I'd like to know the odds in Vegas of those two things happening and NOT being related to each other in some fashion, with only the horn-honking incident on Nov. 22 being "conspiratorial". Even a conspiracy clown like you, Lee Farley, certainly must admit that it's a tad bit odd to have had police cars do that EXACT same type of tip-tip horn-honking at that EXACT same house in Oak Cliff prior to 11/22, but have only the 11/22 episode being part of some kind of ill-defined "plot" or "signal" for Lee Harvey Oswald. (I guess maybe Oswald would have stayed in his room all day long unless the cop came around and tooted his horn, huh? Is that why he required a "signal", Lee?)

Lee, What do you think the horn-honking cop was doing at 1026 Beckley on 11/22/63, as he deliberately drew attention to himself by tooting his horn so that a non-conspirator (Mrs. Roberts) could easily hear him? Dazzle me with your inane theory about that episode. I can't wait.

The horn-honking police car means nothing. That activity was commonplace at 1026 Beckley--even on days when the President wasn't being killed. Shouldn't the fact that cop cars stopped at that location to honk their horn on OTHER DAYS before 11/22 cause you to stop and pause and wonder about this incident a little longer? But at least you were able to change the subject concerning Mrs. Roberts and her testimony that LHO stayed in his room just long enough to get a jacket and put it on.

I just did. A darn good post too. Good enough for Part 71 HERE. ~sigh~ We don't need to know the details of how, when, or even WHERE Oswald picked up his revolver in late March 1963. The fact that Oswald had that gun ON HIM on Nov. 22 proves he took possession of it at SOME POINT IN TIME prior to 1:50 PM CST on 11/22. But you will never stop reaching for the chaff, will you Jim? It must be Garrison-itis. He never stopped talking junk either. Looks like you've inherited that trait.

A pathetic last reply from DiEugenio. Myers provided a DIRECT QUOTE from a person employed by REA. And Jimbo thinks I only said what I said because Dale Myers wrote it. Back at ya Jimmy--what a crock (you are).

Don't be silly, Bill. There was only one Oswald, and you know it. Why play such games? I thought you were one CTer who rose above the "Anybody But Oswald" and "Double Oswald" silliness.

Oh, brother. Let me repeat that, because just once isn't NEARLY enough to absord the utter hypocrisy of that "never places anything in context" statement made above by Mr. DiEugenio: Oh, brotherrrrrr! I deny it because it's nothing but an outright lie. And it always was an outright lie. And even YOU know it's a lie, James. Even YOU have never referred to me on Len Osanic's weekly Anybody-But-Oswald Internet radio program as anyone other than who I am (DVP) -- except for that one time in late 2008, when Osanic had you nearly convinced that I was Dave Reitzes. But you later came to learn that I am not Mr. Reitzes. So why are you playing the "false names" card now? You know it's a lie (originally invented by a really strange conspiracy loon named David G. Healy at alt.conspiracy.jfk, who took it upon himself to start believing that I was numerous different people who posted messages at that newsgroup). Anyway, Jim, thanks for allowing me to get under your skin (yet again). More LNers should try it. And if there is anyone in this world who fails to put things in the proper "context" (or "whole") regarding the JFK murder case, it is certainly a school teacher in Los Angeles named James DiEugenio, whose middle name should be "piecemeal", because that's how he treats all issues of the JFK case. He isolates everything and never ever sees fit to provide us with a coherent, reasonable "totality" or "whole" that would justify the utterly screwy things he seems to believe. Which is undoubtedly why he has decided to almost totally ignore (to a large degree) some of the biggest areas of concern in the whole case -- e.g., The actual scene of the crime in Dealey Plaza and Lee Harvey Oswald's own incriminating actions and statements on 11/21/63 and 11/22/63. Jim is on record, in fact, saying that lately he doesn't really care too much about the "Who?" or the "How?" or the "How many gunmen were involved?" questions regarding JFK's murder. Those things aren't nearly as important to nail down when compared with ultra-important questions like these (paraphrasing): "What happened to that envelope that Oswald supposedly mailed to Seaport?" "Why does Capt. Fritz perform that little 'underhanded wave' just before Oswald is shot by Ruby?" "Why didn't the Dallas cops pluck the five unfired bullets from Oswald's pocket during the 'fast frisk' in the Texas Theater?" "Why didn't the FBI go to the Railway Express office to check the records about Oswald's revolver purchase?" "How do we know Oswald ever purchased any bullets at all to put into his rifle or his revolver?" "How do we know that that is REALLY Oswald's own signature in the hotel's register in Mexico City? Just because a whole bunch of handwriting 'experts' tell us it's his? Horse hockey! I think it's fake! To hell with the 'experts'!" "How do we know that's REALLY Oswald's writing on ALL of the various documents for the rifle and revolver purchases? Just because a gob of handwriting 'experts' say so? Nonsense! I say ALL of those documents have been manufactured and are frauds! And TO HELL with the 'experts' who say otherwise!" "How do we know that all of JFK's autopsy photographs and X-rays are REALLY legitimate? Just because 20 or so 'experts' on an HSCA panel say so? Fiddlesticks! I say they're all fakes! I couldn't care less what some Government shills tell me!" ========================== And when Jimbo does decide to talk about anything having to do with the scene of the crime (the TSBD and Dealey Plaza), we get gems like this beaut from Jimmy: "I'm not even sure they [the real killers of JFK, not Lee Harvey Oswald, naturally] were on the sixth floor [of the Book Depository]. I mean, they might have been. But what's the definitive evidence that the hit team was on the sixth floor? .... If they WERE on the sixth floor, they could have been at the other [west] end. .... And I've always suspected there was a sniper in the Dal-Tex Building." -- James DiEugenio; February 11, 2010 (Black Op Radio) And a few more of my favorites from DiEugenio's lips are these gut-busters below: "I don't think [Howard] Brennan was at any lineup. I think that was all manufactured after the fact. I think Brennan is a completely created witness." -- James DiEugenio; May 27, 2010 (Black Op Radio) "Specter and Humes understood that the probe was gonna be a big problem. They thought the photographs would never be declassified. So Specter made up this B.S. story about the strap muscles, never knowing that that story was going to be exposed." -- James DiEugenio; July 16, 2009 (Black Op Radio) "Somebody else might have done it [burned the first draft of the autopsy report and Dr. Humes' blood-stained notes]. .... Today, I think that's what really happened. I think that that whole thing about burning the notes...was just a cover story." -- James DiEugenio; December 11, 2008 (Black Op Radio) "The story of this (these) paper bag(s), Wesley Frazier, his sister, and the curtain rods can be challenged every single step of the way. .... By the early evening of [November] 22nd [1963], the DPD had very little besides the notorious Howard Brennan. Shaky eye witness Howard Brennan couldn't be relied upon to put Oswald on the sixth floor. As Police Chief Jesse Curry later admited [sic], they had no one who put Oswald in the building with a gun in his hand. Therefore, they needed Frazier and his "Oswald carrying a package" story." -- James DiEugenio; In "Part 6" of his Bugliosi review [no longer available to read at CTKA.net, however; only Part 1 is still available there] "I have minimized the testimony of Linnie Mae [Randle]. I do so because in my view it is highly questionable." -- James DiEugenio; Part 6 of Bugliosi review I've archived lots more of Jimmy's fantasies here: http://JFK-Archives.blogspot.com/2011/04/dvp-vs-dieugenio-complete-series.html In summary -- Given the above examples that illustrate some of the incredibly silly and flat-out ridiculous things that Jim believes, I cannot see how anyone with any logic or common sense (or true facts about the JFK assassination by their side) can take anything that is uttered by Mr. James DiEugenio seriously at all. And yet, with his Hypocrisy Button set on "full speed ahead", Jim claims that I am the one who is exhibiting a "full blasted, fuel injected, liquid rocket agenda which twists and turns every fact". Amazing.

Boy, what a rotten example to choose to prop up here. Mrs. Roberts, via her own lips, told us that Oswald was in his room "just long enough, I guess, to go in there and get a jacket and put it on". Now, Duke, try to reconcile the above words of Earlene Roberts into a scenario where I should have gone in "the other direction" with my estimate when considering Mrs. Roberts' testimony (i.e., is there any way that those words spoken by Roberts could reasonably be interpreted to mean that Oswald was in his room LONGER than 3 or 4 minutes)? Of course not. That's silly. Why on Earth would you pick out that Roberts example to bolster your criticisms of me?

Yeah, Bill, that word you propped up fits CTers very nicely. They always attempt to "form a maze or tangle from which it is impossible to get free". The only problem is: Their theories don't hold together in any kind of cohesive or reasonable way. And they never have. It's like building a house on a foundation of half-melted ice cream. It's not going to stand up.

Not at all, Jim. I expressly quoted the reason as to why I changed my opinion on that matter (and, btw, I always maintained my uncertainty about how mail-order companies like Seaport dealt with C.O.D. orders in 1963, and I expressed my admitted uncertainty in my 2010 posts to you on this matter, which you will always ignore, as usual). But it wasn't JUST because Dale Myers posted it, it was because of WHAT Dale Myers posted. Myers quoted REA Vice-President Robert Hendon, who said that in a similar case "a card was sent to the name and address" of the person who ordered the C.O.D. merchanchise. That was the clincher for me and cleared up the confusion about the C.O.D. order, which was confusion that was actually started by Heinz Michaelis himself, who specifically DID say that the package containing THE GUN was mailed to Oswald's P.O. Box. What he really should have said, however, was that a notification card was sent to the Post Office, who then put that card in Oswald's box, and the physical gun itself was retained by REA Express at the REA office in Dallas. But do you really think Myers just MADE UP that quote from Hendon?

There's so much proof that Oswald murdered Tippit, it's mind-boggling. And it's the BEST kind of evidence too -- ballistics (and yes, the bullet shells are irrevocably tied to LHO's gun, and why you're saying otherwise is a huge mystery; but you couldn't be more wrong on that point, as confirmed by Nicol, Frazier, Killion, and Cunningham....and others from the HSCA too) .... plus the fact that Oswald still had the murder weapon in his OWN HANDS just 35 minutes after the murder .... plus MULTIPLE eyewitnesses who said it was OSWALD, not somebody else, who either killed Tippit or fled the scene immediately afterward. Just stay in fantasy land on this, Duke. That's where you apparently feel most comfortable.

[Deleted duplicate post.]

But Seaport certainly had not received the COD money from anyone connected with the Hidell order by MARCH 13, for Pete sake. The revolver wasn't even shipped until March 20. Plus -- There's no proof the deposit was sent "in January". In fact, the BEST evidence on this (in my view) is the Seaport invoice below, which clearly indicates that they processed Oswald's mail-order coupon on MARCH 13TH, even though the coupon itself was dated January 27th. Don't you think it's even remotely possible that Oswald simply filled out the coupon in January (for some reason) and then waited until he had saved enough money to buy BOTH the revolver and the rifle, and then mailed both the Klein's & Seaport coupons on the same day (March 12th)? That scenario is quite believable and reasonable, IMO. And, as I said, the paperwork from BOTH Klein's and Seaport would seem to make my theory on this even more possible, and even probable, because BOTH the Klein's and Seaport invoices have "March 13" dates on them. Also -- Why in the world would Seaport have had any need to save the envelope in which Oswald mailed his $10 cash deposit? Now it's true that the microfilmed documents at Klein's do show the envelope for the rifle order (along with the order form on the same microfilm), but that doesn't mean that another company (Seaport Traders, Inc.) necessarily HAD to follow the exact same procedures as Klein's. Seaport DID save the order form. Why the need to save a torn-open envelope? In short, there was no real need to save that envelope. And it's absolutely incredible that some CTers actually want to use the lack of an envelope to promote some strange theory that Oswald never sent in an order and $10 in cash to Seaport. And why would there necessarily be any traceable record of a particular ten-dollar bill that a customer mailed to Seaport? Seaport probably received a lot of deposits in cash through the mail (even if they did prefer customers to send MO or checks). But I kinda doubt they would just REFUSE to fill anyone's order just because they sent in cash. And when they received the cash, they simply deposited it in their bank account with other cash and checks and MOs they received that day. There would be no specific notation to the effect that "This $10 bill here came from A.J. Hidell's order", or "This $20 here was from William Montgomery in Houston". That's silly to think such records for CASH transactions would be kept. Also: Dale Myers fully explains the details of Oswald's revolver transaction, and the procedures that Seaport and REA took to establish that Oswald's revolver order had been processed, delivered, and paid for by the customer. And the "red copy" of the invoice, which had the COD remittance document attached to it, verifies that the money had been collected. And it's quite possible that Oswald merely paid CASH, once again, when he picked up the revolver. Quoting Dale Myers: "Once Oswald received the notification card at his P.O. Box, he simply took a bus back to the REA Express office -- presented the notification card, the balance due, and some form of identification -- and accepted delivery of the revolver. "After REA Express had delivered the package to Oswald, the C.O.D. remittance document and the amount collected from Oswald, was forwarded to Seaport Traders. Once received, the C.O.D. remittance document was attached to the red copy of the invoice, indicating that the money had been collected and the package delivered. These documents were placed in the Seaport Trader files, where they were discovered by FBI agents on November 30, 1963. "The paper trail created by Oswald's purchase of the .38 Smith & Wesson revolver under the name A.J. Hidell is clear and direct. The actions taken by Seaport Traders and REA Express in response to Oswald's order are consistent with each company’s rules and regulations at the time and serve as evidence that the order was processed and delivered as described. "The fact that the revolver shipped to Oswald's P.O. Box was in his possession at the time of his arrest is further evidence that the transaction occurred as demonstrated. "In conclusion, there can be no doubt that Oswald ordered and later took possession of the V510210 revolver." -- Dale K. Myers; 1998 http://jfkfiles.blogspot.com/2010/08/oswalds-mail-order-revolver-purchase.html

So, what are you saying, Lee? Do you think both Callaway and Guinyard were liars? They really WEREN'T together when Oswald passed by? And actually, come to think of it, Guinyard is a good witness for the proposition that Oswald was still, indeed, "kicking out shells" out of his gun all the way down Patton, which means that a FIFTH shell might very well have been ejected farther down the street from the corner of 10th & Patton, which would be consistent with Oswald firing five shots (as Callaway always maintained), with one of the shells never being recovered. I've never heard of anybody hunting for shells far down Patton Avenue. Have you? It's quite possible that a shell was dropped there by Oswald and never found. Here's what Callaway said about that: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-bEyazi8WAuSVMtWG1aTWlNeWc/view

Irrelevant for this discussion. This discussion is all about your stupid and inane belief that Callaway was lying about seeing ANY gunman on Patton Avenue after Tippit was shot. But Guinyard confirms that he was right next to Callaway when the gunman passed by. Or would you like now to say that Callaway WAS there, but he had his eyes closed and never SAW anything? I already said that you can toss Tatum in the trash (which, of course, you already have--years ago). Why are you belaboring this? Whenever I talk to a CTer, I always toss Tatum in the garbage too. (Just like you are forced to reject Beverly Oliver and Gordon Arnold on the same grounds.)

Yeah, just pretend that DVP is the ONLY person on the planet who thinks your silliness re Callaway is really silliness. So, you'll ignore the fact that the WC and the HSCA declared your favorite patsy guilty of killing Tippit (and Kennedy). And there are many thousands of reasonable people out there, besides me, who know that Callaway saw Oswald and that Oswald shot Tippit. Hell, you don't even think that Oswald's actions in the theater are indicative of his guilt, do you? He pulls a gun, tries to shoot more cops, utters one (or two) statements that reek with guilt ("It's all over now" and/or "This is it"), and fights like a wild man before the cuffs are slapped on him. Or do you think Oswald really had a gun in the theater? Was that all "fraudulent" too? Including Johnny Brewer's confirmation of an ARMED Oswald fighting with the cops inside the theater? (Yes, I changed the subject a bit. But, oh well.)

Dead wrong. Bill Scoggins is positively a "Murder Witness", no matter how you want to categorize him. He saw Tippit fall to the ground and then saw Oswald, with a gun, coming straight toward him. And, of course, Domingo Benavides is a murder witness too. And probably Jack Tatum, but you can throw him out if you like (which you will), because he didn't surface for 15 more years. But he saw Oswald shoot Tippit in the head. So, to say that Helen Markham is the only "official eyewitness" is just a crock. And you know it's a crock. Let me repeat my edit from my last post (so you can now start calling Sam Guinyard a bald-faced xxxx too): JOSEPH BALL -- "Did you see Mr. Callaway there?" SAM GUINYARD -- "We was together; yes, sir."

So, by implication, we've now got Lee Farley calling all of the following people liars too (since Farley is clearly impying in this thread that Ted Callaway saw NO GUNMAN AT ALL on Patton on 11/22/63): B.D. Searcy Pat Patterson Warren Reynolds Sam Guinyard L.J. Lewis Harold Russell All of the above witnesses saw a gunman in the area of Patton Avenue and Jefferson Boulevard just after J.D. Tippit was shot. And, to a lesser degree, all of the following witnesses must be liars too (to the extent that they each saw the lone killer of Tippit at the corner of 10th & Patton and moving toward the area on Patton where Ted Callaway's car lot was located): Barbara Davis Virginia Davis Domingo Benavides William Scoggins Here's what Sam Guinyard told the Warren Commission: JOSEPH BALL -- "Did you see Mr. Callaway there?" SAM GUINYARD -- "We was together; yes, sir." http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/guinyard1.htm ================= I have a feeling that Lee Farley is just pulling my leg in this thread re Callaway, though. Because nobody with all their screws tightened can possibly deny that Callaway saw a gunman (Lee Oswald to be exact) on Patton Avenue. Particularly when ALL of the above witnesses corroborate Callaway's observations. I guess maybe it's a slow week at Anybody-But-Oswald central (where Farley is Vice-President -- DiEugenio is Grand Poobah), so he decided to come up with one of the silliest theories I have ever heard re this case -- i.e., that Ted Callaway saw NO GUNMAN AT ALL on Patton on 11/22. That rivals Brian David Andersen's "JFK WAS WEARING A PYROTECHNICS DEVICE AND FAKED HIS OWN DEATH" theory.

Yeah, I didn't think you'd have the 'nads to just answer my Callaway question Yes or No. Just as DiEugenio will never do either. Because you'd be boxed into a ridiculous position either way--which is why I asked the question. If you answer "Yes, I think Callaway saw a gunman on Patton", then you've got to admit that your question about why Ted asked Domingo which way the killer went was a completely useless question. And if you answer "No", then you're forced to call Callaway an outright xxxx, plus you'd have to admit that several other car-lot workers were liars too--such as Searcy, Reynolds, and Patterson, who all saw the same gunman Callaway saw. Either way, you look like a goof. As usual. You probably should have asked me this question regarding Callaway: Why the heck didn't Callaway ask Scoggins which way the killer went, instead of asking Benavides? After all, Ted was sitting right next to Scoggins in the cab, and Scoggins was a witness at Tenth & Patton too. And also: why didn't Scoggins speak up and ALSO answer Callaway's question that was aimed at Benavides? * * = Of course, perhaps Scoggins did confirm it. Who knows. We don't know the verbatim words that were exchanged between these guys on Tenth St. on 11/22.

Then why did the Seaport invoices have a check box for "Cash" (such as the invoice for Oswald's revolver purchase seen below....which, btw, clearly indicates that a "Cash" payment was received)?