David Von Pein

My response to DiEugenio's latest round of silliness regarding Oswald's revolver: DVP vs. JD (PART 66)

LHO didn't need a document of that nature, as testified to by Heinz Michaelis (is he lying too, Gil?)..... HEINZ MICHAELIS -- "The order received by mail is written up and invoiced in quadruplicate on a snap-out form. .... The fourth copy is the acknowledgment of the order copy and lists on the back side a statement which has to be signed by the respective customer." JOE BALL -- "What statement? MR MICHAELIS -- "A statement to the effect, I believe that it said that the buyer states that he is a citizen of the United States, and that he has never been convicted in any court of the United States, territories, possessions, et cetera." MR. BALL -- "Well, now, this fourth copy that has on the back this statement by the customer, is that mailed to the customer?" MR. MICHAELIS -- "It is mailed to the customer, but not in this particular case. Indicated on the invoice are three X's, which indicates that we have already a statement to this effect on file because this particular mail order coupon has already the statement, and the name of the witness."

Subject: Delivery Receipts for the "Hidell" weapons Date: 3/25/2011 2:54:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time From: Gary Mack To: David Von Pein ------------------ Dave, The responses [on The Education Forum by conspiracy theorists] to what I clearly stated was speculation are truly inept. Let me demonstrate why: 1) I have no idea why the envelope was postmarked in a different zone than the main post office. Perhaps Oswald bought the money order, took it back to the office and gave it to someone else to mail and it get sent from somewhere else? Or is there some standard post office explanation for such things? Just because some questions have remained unanswered doesn't mean sinister explanations are always the reason. 2) So what if Oswald turned down rides from time to time? Did he always refuse? No one knows. Did he accept rides from other than the two who asked him? Same answer. Since the walking distance was 30-35 minutes from J-C-S to the main post office, odds are he accepted the ride from someone or rode the bus unless, of course, he ran which would cut the time roughly in half. According to Marina's testimony, Oswald had a bus schedule and studied it a few days earlier, though that may have been for his plan to shoot Walker. So far, there's no reason to suspect a sinister answer. 3) While I don't have access to a 1963 bus schedule, I do know the city runs more buses in morning and afternoon drive than it does midday, so taking a bus was a reasonable alternative. 4) True, there's no evidence showing Oswald to have been anywhere but J-C-S that day, but do his time sheets list his working hours AND breaks - including lunch - NO. Of course not, they just show that he was paid to be at J-C-S for a full day.....and he was. 5) As for Oswald's J-C-S times sheet, researcher Mary Ferrell, whom I had great respect for, wrote, "OSWALD'S time sheet for March 12 is evidence that he probably lied sometimes about his hours. On the day he ordered the rifle, he signed in from 8:15 a.m. to 5:15 p.m., (Exhibit no. 1855, Vol. 23, p. 605)." She then wrote that the post office opened at 8am, after noting Harry Holmes testimony that the envelope was mailed in the early morning. The simple fact that Marina and Marguerite both admitted back then and for years later - I've heard the story directly from both women - that he posed for pictures with the guns he ordered trumps everything else. 6) Did Klein's send Oswald the larger rifle without asking? Maybe, or perhaps they enclosed a note explaining the substitution and Oswald threw it away? 7) However, I'm baffled at Gil Jesus' question about my credibility from the Jesse Ventura show. I simply told him - assuming he would ask - what I've said for years: I have questions about parts of the story, but I can't prove any of them. My honesty apparently went over his head. Gary -------------------- [End Gary Mack Quotes.] -------------------- DVP NOW SAYS: Gary's #1 explanation doesn't seem very likely (or logical) at all. Because why would Oswald have purchased the money order at the post office and then given it to someone else to mail when he himself (Oswald) was right there in the post office already? That makes no sense at all. I'm not saying that Gary's #1 explanation is totally impossible--of course it's not impossible, but it doesn't seem very likely or reasonable either. Everything else on Gary's above list, however, makes perfect sense to me, particularly his very good #6 point about the possibility of Klein's notifying Oswald in some manner that the rifle being shipped was not the exact same 36-inch model he had ordered. That, to me, seems very reasonable. And it also seems reasonable to think that Oswald would have had no really good reason to even care that the rifle he ultimately received from Klein's was four inches longer (and slightly heavier) than the thirty-six version he had originally ordered. MORE MISC. THOUGHTS: Regarding the U.S. Postal Money Order that Lee Harvey Oswald used to order his rifle from Klein's Sporting Goods --- I'm just curious to know how it has been verified that Oswald purchased the money order from the MAIN STREET Post Office branch in Dallas, Texas -- vs. possibly buying it at a different U.S. Post Office branch closer to "Zone 12"? Is it the stamped "G.P.O." marking on the money order which signifies that the item was purchased (and stamped) at the Main Street Post Office? And does "G.P.O." stand for "General Post Office"? And would that mean he could have ONLY purchased it at the Main Street branch? I'm not saying that Oswald didn't get the money order at the Main Street Post Office, I'm just wondering the method by which it was positively proven he did get it there? I can find no specific reference in Harry Holmes' Warren Commission testimony as to how this fact was determined concerning where the money order was purchased. Holmes does indicate (twice) in his testimony, however, that it was obtained "at the main post office". But I can't find any info in his testimony about HOW that fact was specifically determined. Did the Main Street Post Office possibly retain a receipt of Oswald's $21.45 money order transaction? If so, I can't find anything concerning such a record of receipt in Holmes' testimony. I did, however, take note of this interesting section of Harry Holmes' testimony, which is a statement that conspiracy theorists like Jim DiEugenio must certainly think is nothing but a bald-faced lie. Harry Holmes said this: "Postal Inspector McGee of Chicago called back then and said...they had received this money order on March the 13th, whereas I had been looking for March 20. So then I passed the information to the men who were looking for this money order stub to show which would designate, which would show the number of the money order, and that is the only way you could find one. I relayed this information to them and told them to start on the 13th, because he could have bought it that morning and that he could have gotten it by airmail that afternoon." So, what U.S. Postal Inspector Harry D. Holmes is saying there is that the money order that Oswald purchased on the morning of March 12, 1963, could actually have been sent via air mail (which it was) the NEXT DAY--on March 13th--and still have gotten to Chicago on the "afternoon" of March 13, the very same day it was mailed by air mail. Conspiracy theorists like James DiEugenio, however, believe that such fast mail service, circa 1963, was simply impossible, as the all-knowing Jimbo told us on March 8th: "You cannot mail a money order over 700 miles from Dallas to Chicago, then have it delivered to Klein's, then have it sorted, picked up and then delivered to the bank and then have it deposited in 24 hours. Pre zip code and pre computer scanning. You cannot do that even today. Simply not possible." -- Jim DiEugenio; March 8, 2011 But, quite obviously, Jimmy's beliefs do not square with the facts. And while the business about the money order arriving and being processed and deposited by Klein's in 24 hours is, indeed, a fast transaction, the testimony of Harry Holmes (who was a UNITED STATES POSTAL INSPECTOR, so I think he should know what he's talking about when it comes to MAIL, AIR MAIL, and DELIVERY TIMES) indicates that Oswald's money order could, indeed, have been delivered to Chicago and properly processed in just 24 hours (or even less, per Holmes' testimony shown above). Now, Jim, was Harry Holmes lying when he said what I just quoted him as saying above? (We all know what Jimmy's answer to this question is going to be, don't we now?)

Here's a hint for Lee Farley: That bullet was moving REALLY REALLY FAST when it hit the curbstone. Did you expect it to just stick like Elmer's glue to the Main St. curb? Of course, a lot of goofy conspiracists seem to think that the "Elmer's Glue" theory IS a reasonable one when it comes to the so-called "whole bullet" that was supposedly plucked from the top of the grass on the south side of Elm Street in Dealey Plaza by an unknown detective (aka: the Buddy Walthers Bullet). I guess we're supposed to believe that a bullet being fired from a (presumably) high-powered weapon struck the Elm St. turf and then JUST STOPPED ON TOP OF THE GRASS, as if it had been dropped there by a bystander. Right? I need your corset now, Farley. Mine just busted.

I haven't the foggiest, Lee. I haven't been following your discussions with Lifton closely at all. I just know you've engaged him in a CT v. CT cockfight recently. That's all. Now, back to Scotland Yard with ya.

Maybe you should get your facts straight. Bugliosi doesn't believe Oswald shot through the tree. Vince doesn't think the bullet hit the tree at all. Vince believes in something much sillier, discussed here: http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/07/missed-shot-controversy.html

Yeah, that must be why you've been discussing the case at length with David Lifton, huh?* What a hypocrite. * Mr. Lifton, in case anyone forgot, is a person who believes that JFK's body was altered before the official autopsy and also believes that all of the gunshots came from the FRONT of Kennedy's car. "Intelligent" theories, aren't they?

Time to get bored again, eh Lee "I've Got Better Things To Do With My Time Than Talk To A Bore Named Von Pein" Farley? What a hypocrite.

Oswald's first (missed) shot was likely deflected by the oak tree. Duh. And, of course, the whole HSCA must also be "insane" (per Farley), because they've got the first shot missing the whole car at even an earlier time--about Z157. Oh, those wacky HSCA guys. Right, Lee boy?

Like all conspiracy theories that you CTers are in love with, this one about Lee Oswald's finances fizzles into obscurity before it even gets off the ground (just as I knew it would before you researched your prized "notes" on the subject). Try again, Lee. Maybe you'll find Oswald's millions hidden in a blanket in Ruth Paine's garage.

Glad to see you can't live without my wackiness, Lee boy. You're even compelled to enter my wacky world when you're with your family, at the Gallery, or "on the Tube". You must be a glutton for punishment. And you must also love being bored to death, eh? What a strange little man.

Here again, kids o' the corn, we have example #1,299 of DiEugenio's patsy-framers acting like retards. They want to fake a paper trail so that everyone will believe that their patsy, Mr. Oswald, ordered and paid for and received Rifle C2766 and Revolver V510210, but they forgot to fake the firearms forms. ~slaps forehead~ That was sure a great bunch of evidence-planters you've got there, Jimbo. They couldn't fake anything correctly, could they? Speaking of Dangerfield....maybe he was the top-level idiot who was trying to frame Oswald by doing things that nobody would have done to frame him. BTW, re the firearms forms that the CTers insist MUST exist in Oswald's mail-order transactions---- Would the CTers now like to abandon the oft-repeated theory about how Oswald could have walked into any gun store in Texas and walked out with a gun that could never be traced? IOW -- If there should be forms and documents signed by the purchaser for LHO's mail-order purchases, then surely those same forms and signatures would also be required to exist in a transaction that took place in a brick-and-mortar gun shop, right? If not--why not? And if I'm right, then it means Oliver Stone got another thing wrong in his 1991 comedy film in the scene where Lou Ivon states that Oswald could have purchased a completely untraceable weapon by merely buying it in a gun store.

Can it GET any more hilarious on a Pot/Kettle scale than the above comment by Mr. ABO himself? If there's anyone who doesn't like the evidence and wants it to vanish (or become ALL FAKE) in the JFK & Tippit cases, it's DiEugenio. That's why he pretends that all of the Oswald-incriminating evidence is phony--every last piece of it. Jim, you're a scream. You've already surpassed Dangerfield in the comedy arena, Jimbo. You've reached greater comedy heights--you're Richard Pryor, Eddie Murphy, and the great Phyllis Diller all rolled into one pathetic and laughable ABO conspiracy-happy monger. Congrats.

Bullxxxx.

So, Lee, if Oswald really had--let's say--about $100 more at the end of a particular month than the Warren Commission estimated -- what does that mean to you? IOW -- Where are you going with that data? Are you going to suggest that the CIA or FBI paid Oswald that extra little sum of cash to be one of their operatives? And--again--if that type of thing isn't your main point about Oswald getting money from entities like the CIA or FBI or some other unknown party that you think the Government wanted to keep under wraps, then what IS your point? Do you really have one? Or do you just want to highlight the fact that a conspiracy theorist like Mary Ferrell arrived at figures that were just SLIGHTLY different than the ones printed by the Warren Commission regarding Saint Oswald's financial state? As I said, either set of figures still makes Lee H. Oswald a really poor man in early 1963. So I guess the next question I should ask you is --- So what?

Yeah, like taking the time to converse with a "bore" and an "odd little man" like me on an Internet forum. Right, Lee? Hilarious.

Keep reaching for that chaff, Tom Scully, all the while ignoring Waldman #7 (which proves for ALL TIME that Oswald was shipped a rifle with the number C2766 on it, which we know was a 40-inch rifle). Let me ask Tom Scully point-blank -- do you REALLY think this document below is a fake?:

Easy, Jimbo. You should be saving some of those anti-Mack and anti-Von Pein histrionics for your next laughfest on Anybody But Oswald Radio. Don't you agree? The fact is, of course, that every single thing Gary Mack said here makes perfect sense. Naturally, Jim "ABO" DiEugenio has to spit on everything uttered by Mr. Mack and drag Gary through the mud--which is just exactly what I knew Delusional DiEugenio would do before he ever did it above. If somebody were to dig hard enough, I'd be willing to bet that a postal zone mark on an envelope could be found that could be proven to have been different from the zone where the letter had been physically mailed. And, btw, this is just another (of the hundreds) of examples of DiEugenio's "Let's Frame Oswald" plotters doing things that only a total retard would want to do -- i.e., they are framing Oswald, per the conspiracy mongers, with a fake money order that was supposedly purchased at the main post office in Dallas. So what do these brainless morons do this time to clog the works? They decide to have the envelope stamped with a different postal zone from the one where the money order was purchased. Brilliant! The plotters could just as easily have stamped the "fake" envelope with the "fake" Oswald writing with the CORRECT ZONE, right Jimbo? But, instead, they apparently wanted to leave conspiracy-hungry goofs like DiEugenio a whole bunch of bread crumbs throughout their LFO [Let's Frame Oswald] plan, by deliberately stamping the wrong zone on the envelope containing the money order. And then the retard plotters compound their idiocy by also deciding to make the money order arrive in Chicago at an impossibly early time (in 24 hours), per the CTers like Jimbo D. The fact that anomalies and discrepancies like this exist AT ALL is probably better proof of NO CONSPIRACY than they are of CONSPIRACY. Why? Because in a plot where EVERYTHING is fake and totally controlled by the evil plotters (which is certainly what DiEugenio believes--he thinks EVERYTHING connected with Oswald is phony), then NONE of these types of goofy anomalies would exist in the first place. (Unless, as I mentioned, the plotters were, literally, ALL retarded.) Continuing on..... And then the plotters also decided to frame Oswald by creating ADDITIONAL fake backyard photos, even though we know there were several other copies of the backyard photos that the plotters could not possibly have controlled that depicted THE EXACT SAME THING in the pictures (Oswald in the Neely St. yard holding guns) -- like the one found in DeMohrenschildt's possession in 1977. Was that "planted" and "fake" too, Jimbo? And the picture that Marina and Marguerite destroyed in their hotel room shortly after the assassination. Was that one a fake picture of Oswald holding a rifle too? And the retard plotters decided to frame Oswald by killing Kennedy FROM THE GRASSY KNOLL, per almost all CTers on the Internet. This is the silliest goof of all, of course. But CTers want to believe those two things can realistically co-exist (the patsy frame-up AND a Grassy Knoll gunman), so the conspiracists decide to throw all common sense out the nearest window. And on and on to retard infinity with these goofball frame-up idiots that people like DiEugenio think were out to get Oswald. In short, Jim DiEugenio doesn't have a clue. And the fact he's still a Garrison supporter in this day and age only further supports my last sentence.

Yeah, that's why Marina was able to take pictures of him on March 31st holding two guns. And that's why LHO was caught with Revolver V510210 in his hands on 11/22/63. (Some plotter must have shoved it in Lee's hands just before the cops arrived in the theater, with this conspirator telling Lee to try and kill a cop with it. And, amazingly, Oswald agreed to do it.) In short, Lee Farley doesn't have the slightest idea what he's talking about (as usual). And the Mary Ferrell stuff about LHO's finances that Farley thinks proves something is a riot. In fact, those figures make it even WORSE for Oswald's financial condition as of January 31, 1963, with Ferrell deciding that Oswald had a deficit of over $100 to start February....whereas the WC at least had him with $8 in his pocket. But either way, the point made by Gary Mack in his e-mail message to me is still a valid one -- i.e., Oswald probably waited to order his guns until mid-March, because he was pretty much broke at the end of January. I guess Farley must think that the whopping difference of maybe $100 or so at the end of each month (when comparing Ferrell's data with the Warren Commission's) is supposed to prove that Oswald was really a big wheel with the CIA or something. Is that it, Farley? Because if that's NOT what you're getting at in some fashion by posting those laughable figures from Mary Ferrell's website (which still show Oswald to be very very poor in early 1963), then what is your point in highlighting Ferrell's data?

It must be nice to be able to say anything you want on a moderated forum and not have the moderators give a damn about it. Farley must have Edu. Forum immunity. Anyway, I love knowing that I'm getting under the skin of conspiracy-happy mongers like Farley and DiEugenio. It makes my day.

I wait with eager anticipation, Lord Farley. Undoubtedly, Mr. Farley will be citing something about Oswald's wealth from a conspiracy kookbook. Can there be any doubt of that? The Warren Commission and the HSCA are to be totally thrown out the window, per CTers. But Mark Lane and John Armstrong are to be taken as the Gospel. Go figure.

Oh, of course, Lee. The WC's data is always wrong. I forgot about that. Oswald got that $6500 from the Cubans in Mexico, right? And he buried it in the backyard on Beckley, right? That's why nobody's ever found it. And Oswald was so rich that he had to live in $7 and $8-a-week boardinghouses for months at a time....and he couldn't even afford to keep his wife and kids, so they lived (for free) at the Paine house. I suppose he was just PRETENDING to be poor, though, eh Lee? He was really being paid thousands per month by the Langley boys.

No, I'm not surprised. But maybe you should be, because the exact month we're talking about here (January 1963) regarding the time when Oswald filled out his order form for the revolver (but likely did not mail it) is the month when Oswald appears to have the least amount of "Cash on hand", per the Warren Commission's very detailed anaylsis of LHO's finances from June '62 thru Nov. '63 -- with Oswald having only $8.59 to his name at the end of January. (He likely had $18.59, though, since it's highly likely he still had the $10 deposit for the revolver at the end of the month, even though the WC puts that deposit down for the month of January, because they assumed he did mail it in January.) But even $18.59 would be pretty paltry...and it's certainly not enough to fully pay for the revolver he wanted to buy through Seaport Traders. That gun cost him $31.22 total. And as we can see from Oswald's balance sheet, he did not nearly have that much money on January 31, 1963 (taking into consideration, of course, the fact that the WC merely estimated Oswald's misc. expenses for each month, with the WC deducting exactly $100.00 for most months, which could vary from month to month, quite naturally; but the WC came very very close to balancing Oswald's books as of Nov. 22, 1963, with the Commission being off by a mere $19 from what Oswald truly had in his possession as of the date of the assassination; so, I'd say the Commission's estimated data was pretty darn accurate for the most part):

Thanks for the video, Duncan. I couldn't get my copy of the CBS special to embed properly. (Something's weird with the embeds and images here lately.)

Lee Oswald (of course). Who else would have paid it? He's the one who received the gun. (We know that he received it, because he was in POSSESSION OF IT in the Texas Threater at 1:50 PM CST on Friday, November 22, 1963.) Or would you like to claim that somebody ELSE ordered and paid for the gun, and then gave it to Oswald between March '63 and 11/22/63? There's no way out of this mess for conspiracy theorists, and I think most CTers know it too; they just like to pretend that the silliest scenarios are actually reasonable ones--like the one about Oswald never having possession of Revolver V510210, even though he had that exact same gun in his hands on Nov. 22. Just incredibly silly talk. (As is the silly talk about how Oswald never had possession of Mannlicher-Carcano Rifle C2766 as well.)