David Von Pein

41 minutes ago, Pat Speer said:

This is similar to the WC's gambit with Brennan. He ID'ed Oswald as the man on [the] sixth floor under the proviso he was not wearing the dark brown shirt whose fibers were found on the rifle. The WC ignored him and pretended that both were true--that he ID'ed Oswald and that Oswald was wearing the shirt Brennan insisted was not the shirt worn by the shooter.

It's called a whitewash.

I believe Oswald was probably wearing only his white T-shirt when he shot JFK. (With Oswald's brown shirt sitting on the floor or on top of a box in the Sniper's Nest during the actual shooting.)

And, therefore, via such a shirt scenario, Howard Brennan would be correct about Oswald not wearing the brown "arrest" shirt at the moment of the shooting itself.

On 3/1/2023 at 9:51 PM, Pat Speer said:

...the doctors were 100% convinced on the night if the autopsy that there was no wound track. They only invented one later after talking to Perry, and after Oswald's death. 

But don't forget the one thing that the autopsy surgeons relied on (probably above all others) that resulted in those doctors concluding that the bullet exited Kennedy's throat (after Humes talked to Dr. Perry on Saturday morning, that is):

Common sense.

It's just a shame that that particular commodity is in such short supply amongst JFKA conspiracy theorists.

18 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Can't you do better? 

I'll try.

And you are right to scold me regarding Gerald Hill. He told Dale Myers one thing in 1996, but three years earlier he told the Sixth Floor Museum something else entirely. And as of this date it's just not possible to figure out WHY. Therefore, we're left with a conflicting record.

But I do not categorize Gerald Hill as a "li@r". The same thing applies to Buell Frazier, who also has told conflicting tales over the years about various things. But I wouldn't classify Buell as a deliberate li@r either.

28 minutes ago, Benjamin Cole said:

Why did Gerald Hill tell Dale Myers that he read the bottom of the hulls (shells) provided to him at the Tippit murder scene? 

I haven't the slightest idea. But Hill said something completely different here.

9 minutes ago, Michael Crane said:

You're propping up early erroneous information, Michael. And you surely know it's erroneous. There was no bullet "lodged behind the President's ear". And that fact was proven at the autopsy.

Why should I believe all three autopsy surgeons lied about many things concerning the autopsy?

If you want to think they all lied....fine. But I'm not travelling down that road.

1 hour ago, Pat Speer said:

So...the scientific facts are that they found no transit from back to front, but that one was conjured up anyhow. 

A couple of basic (common-sense) facts that CTers never want to acknowledge:

1. There were no bullets in Kennedy.

2. There wasn't enough damage in Kennedy to account for a bullet just stopping on a dime inside JFK's body, let alone TWO missiles performing such a ridiculous task. (And by far the favored theory amongst CTers is the proverbial "Two Bullets Entered JFK But Neither One Exited" load of bunk.)

And, of course, the Clark Panel DID find a "track" between the throat wound and the back wound:

"There is a track between the two cutaneous wounds as indicated by subcutaneous emphysema and small metallic fragments on the X-rays and the contusion of the apex of the right lung and laceration of the trachea described in the Autopsy Report."  -- Clark Panel Report

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/10/the-1968-clark-panel-report.html

(Now awaiting Pat Speer's regularly scheduled trashing of the Clark Panel's report and its top member.)

11 hours ago, Matthew Koch said:

Here's CE2011 if anyone would like to see how David is using it in a vague to attempt to get out of explaining how that other bullet got into Tippit 

Of course, Matthew Koch knows (or should) that Oswald had BOTH brands of ammunition (Winchester-Western & Remington-Peters) in his revolver (3 each) when the gun was wrested away from him in the Texas Theater. But I guess we're supposed to just ignore that fact, eh Matthew?

And this statement made by Mr. Koch earlier in this thread is just flat-out dead wrong:

"Still waiting on your [Bill Brown's] explanation on how that auto slug got into Tippit?"

There was no "auto slug" plucked from J.D. Tippit's body.

41 minutes ago, Michael Crane said:

The back wound that was about 6 inches down from JFK's neck did not transit.

That must be why the autopsy doctors unambiguously said (in their own autopsy report) that the bullet did exit the throat:

"The missile contused the strap muscles of the right side of the neck, damaged the trachea and made its exit through the anterior surface of the neck."  [WCR, p.543]

11 hours ago, Gil Jesus said:

Whenever Mr. Von Pein tells you something, you can be sure that you're not getting the whole story.

This is yet another classic Pot/Kettle moment coming from a CTer. For when does a CTer ever provide the "whole story"? Such as the info about Doughty & Dhority positively IDing the two shells they handled on 10th Street. You'll rarely (if ever) hear that info escaping the lips of any conspiracy theorist. Except perhaps for when the CTer wants to complain about everything in CE2011 being a lie.

6 hours ago, Gil Jesus said:

Does he [DVP] cite documents? Does he cite exhibits? Does he cite testimony? No, he doesn't because he knows what the EVIDENCE says.

Gil Jesus evidently can't (or won't) read. Because I most certainly have cited documents and exhibits (CE2011) in this thread. Such as when I said this:

"And Myers also points out in his book the fact that each of those police officers (Doughty and Dhority) positively identified those bullet shells (one each) in 1964 (via Warren Commission Exhibit No. 2011, on Page 7 and Page 8)."

I guess Gil will have to add George Doughty and C.N. Dhority to his Li@rs List now.

But both of those men are no doubt on Gil's mile-long L-list already. Otherwise, Oswald's guilty of killing Tippit.

2 hours ago, Benjamin Cole said:

The Tippit murder shells, now in evidence as being at the scene of the Tippit murder, do not pass the smell test. 

Nonsense. There's no problem whatsoever with the validity of the bullet shells found at the scene of J.D. Tippit's murder. The only "problem" lies with the conspiracy theorists and their constant inability to fairly and properly evaluate the evidence in the JFK and Tippit cases.

All four of the Tippit bullet shells were conclusively tied to the .38 Smith & Wesson revolver that Lee Harvey Oswald had in his possession when he was arrested inside the Texas Theater—which is an arrest that occurred a mere 35 minutes after Officer Tippit was shot. Which, of course, can only lead to one logical conclusion——Oswald killed Tippit. (With the only other alternative being this very absurd one.)

A key fact concerning the murder of J.D. Tippit that most conspiracy theorists continue to deny to this day is this fact:

The two shell casings found by the two Davis girls have a rock-solid and clear chain of custody after those shells made it into the hands of the Dallas Police Department, with Captain George M. Doughty and Detective C.N. Dhority of the DPD both placing their marks on the one shell (each) that they handled on 11/22/63.

Dale Myers saw and photographed those shells at the National Archives many years ago, with Myers taking note of the markings that exist on the inside lip of each shell. (See pages 267 and 268 of Myers' book "With Malice" [1998 Edition].)

And Myers also points out in his book the fact that each of those police officers (Doughty and Dhority) positively identified those bullet shells (one each) in 1964 (via Warren Commission Exhibit No. 2011, on Page 7 and Page 8).

So, even if we were to throw out the two "Poe" bullet shell casings (due to the confusion of whether or not Officer J.M. Poe marked those two shells), it wouldn't make a bit of difference....and everybody (even all CTers) should know why it doesn't make a bit of difference. It's because we know from the witness testimony that there was only ONE gunman at the Tippit murder scene. And, quite obviously, that ONE gunman was only dumping shells on the ground from ONE single gun at Tenth & Patton on 11/22/63.

Therefore, ALL FOUR shells that were found at 10th and Patton (including the two Poe shells) were obviously dropped there by the ONE AND ONLY gunman who shot Officer Tippit. (Why does logic and common sense like this never seem to enter the heads of JFK conspiracists?)

And with respect to Gerald Hill's 11/22/63 radio transmission about the Tippit shells being from an "automatic" weapon, let's hear what Sergeant Hill had to say about that subject in this 1993 interview (fast-forward to 15:05).

........

.......

http://educationforum.com / Why Did Lance Payette Do This Very Silly Thing? Maybe He'll Explain Here Before He Leaves For Good

1 hour ago, Ian Lloyd said:

On the ROKC site, there is discussion about a team of outside contract workers laying the new plywood floor on the 5th & 6th floors.

Well, it looks like yet another conspiracy myth has sprouted up out of the woodwork, with this newest myth revolving around the subject of "outside contract workers laying the new plywood floor on the 5th & 6th floors".

But, however, we know from the Warren Commission testimony of various witnesses that the floor-repairing project that was going on in the Book Depository Building on 11/22/63 was most definitely not being done by "outside contract workers" at all. It was, instead, being done by the regular TSBD employees. And that fact is confirmed in the testimony of multiple Depository workers, including Bonnie Ray Williams [at 3 H 163], Billy Lovelady [6 H 337], Danny Arce [6 H 364], and Superintendent Roy Truly [3 H 237].

Also:

Here's an excerpt from page 26 of Vincent Bugliosi's book, "Reclaiming History", concerning the topic of the floor-laying crew:

All Playlists....

3 hours ago, Bill Brown said:

What is it with you guys?  Again, none of the voices used Wade's first name when correcting him on the name of the organization.

Right. I sure didn't hear a "Henry" coming from anyone at Wade's conference.

12 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

This whole scene is not just crazy Texas bizarre and even humorous.

Not for Jack Ruby it isn't.

1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said:

The question is who Dave?  Who fed the MSM info on his lone one man crusade in New Orleans the summer before for the FPCC (against their advice) two hours after his arrest?

Any number of media people who had contact with Lee Oswald in New Orleans in the summer of '63 could (and probably did) provide all the information they had on Oswald immediately after the assassination (seeing as how Mr. Oswald was the most talked-about person on the planet during the hours just after JFK was murdered).

And that info coming from New Orleans would have included information about the "Fair Play For Cuba Committee", which was info that was originally provided (voluntarily) by Lee Oswald himself in August of '63 via his radio and television interviews on New Orleans stations WDSU-TV and WDSU-Radio.

I would guess that right after the name "Lee Harvey Oswald" was first revealed as the prime suspect in the assassination, the people at WDSU in New Orleans were on the phone as quickly as they could dial, providing national media outlets with all the information they had on Oswald (including their video and audio tapes of Oswald's interviews).

There was nothing sinister about such "FPCC" information being shared with the national news media very quickly. Given the fact that every newsman in the country was no doubt hungry for ANY info pertaining to this guy named Oswald in the hours after JFK was shot, I don't find it surprising in the least that the national television networks found out that Lee Oswald was affiliated with the FPCC by 4:00 PM CST on Nov. 22. In fact, I would have expected that information to come out very quickly. Because that's what good newsmen and reporters do---they dig stuff up. And many times they dig it up very quickly.

The name "Fair Play For Cuba Committee" was mentioned on NBC-TV at about 4:00 PM (Dallas time) on 11/22 [audio & video linked below]. And the FPCC was undoubtedly also mentioned on other TV and radio outlets as well (because if NBC had it, you know other networks had it too).

So Jack Ruby (and everybody else in America) could have easily known about Oswald's affiliation with the FPCC many hours before Henry Wade's late-night press conference on Friday night.

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2013/06/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-383.html

And here's Henry Wade's longer news conference from 11/24/63 (after Oswald was killed):

14 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

Can someone find the Wade news conference video and link it to us?

On 2/14/2023 at 7:10 AM, Lance Payette said:

Hi

On 2/14/2023 at 7:36 AM, Lance Payette said:

Bye

I, for one, am very disappointed to see that Lance Payette has decided to intentionally delete every single one of his 375 EF Forum posts that he has written since re-joining the forum on December 12, 2022.

Oh Lance....why did you feel it necessary to do this? I can understand how you could get frustrated with all the B.S. posted by the conspiracy theorists here. But why would you want to just wipe out all of your previous posts? I don't understand that part of your sudden departure from the forum.

It's all the more disappointing because Lance had written some very good posts during the last two months when he was here. Posts that were filled with some excellent research and also filled with large doses of rational thinking as well as common sense (IMO). And now he's decided to wipe all of that out in a heartbeat. What a shame.

I wish Lance well in the future, but I sure wish he hadn't thought it necessary to deprive any future EF "lurkers" of the many top-flight posts he had written over the last couple of months (including the thread-starting post in this very thread).

🙁

Fortunately, however, many of Lance's full posts have been quoted by other EF members via the "quote box" feature, so many (or even most) of Lance's lengthy posts probably do still survive here at the forum simply because they will pop up in the Quote Box of someone else's posts. And that's how I was able to retrieve the thread-starting post from this thread (seen below). (Another way to retrieve old/deleted posts, of course, is The Wayback Machine at Archive.org. It comes in very handy at times.)

6 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

Dave, you're getting into unsupported conspiracy theories here.

Where? How?

On 2/13/2023 at 7:04 PM, David Von Pein said:

IMO, Oswald's "Assassination Plan" (if we can call it that) has all the earmarks of being a virtually last-minute plan with no advanced thought at all of any escape plan. I think that's obvious by just examining the things he did on both Nov. 21 and 22.

A few other thoughts [via a 2015 discussion]....

"Lee Oswald might just have been winging it. (Who knows.) His assassination plan, as we know, was practically done at the last minute. I think he was probably extremely surprised that he was actually able to have that 6th floor of the TSBD all to himself long enough to get the job done and fire those three shots at JFK --- because given all the obstacles and potential witnesses that could have caused him to abort his assassination efforts, I just don't see how Oswald's state of mind on the morning of November 22nd could have been anything other than this one ----

"Since I'm not on a suicide mission today, and since so many things could happen that could cause me to change my mind about pulling the trigger on the President (including the weather and the actions of other people in the building), I'm not too confident of being able to pull this assassination off. If I'm able to do it, fine. But if not, that's fine too."

Now, given such a mindset leading up to 12:30 PM on 11/22/63, it's quite possible that Lee hadn't put any thought at all (or very little thought) into what he would do afterward. Therefore, after he did the dirty deed and was able to escape the building, his mindset could very well have been --- "Gee, what the f**k do I do now?!" " -- DVP; March 1, 2015