David Von Pein

I'm certainly willing to accept the possibility that Johnny Brewer might have gotten mixed up concerning the precise time when he first heard the news about a police officer being shot in Oak Cliff. Perhaps he did hear that news a little later in the day. But also keep in mind the 1:35 PM KBOX report about the DOA "detective" (which is a remarkably speedy bulletin, because KBOX not only was reporting on the wounding of a police officer, they were already reporting on the death of that policeman as early as 1:35), which tends to indicate that at least one Dallas-area radio station was reporting the officer's shooting at a time which would be perfectly consistent with Johnny Brewer's account of only seeing Oswald after hearing about the policeman's shooting on the radio.

The KBOX audio footage I provided does not, however, give the necessary detail about the shooting taking place in Oak Cliff, but, as I mentioned earlier, it's possible that such an "Oak Cliff" detail was mentioned in an earlier KBOX bulletin, which preceded the point in time when my truncated copy of the coverage begins.

In any event, even if Brewer didn't hear any pre-1:36 PM radio bulletin concerning the Tippit shooting, it's still quite clear to me from the weight of John Brewer's testimony and statements over the years that Brewer was suspicious of Lee Harvey Oswald's behavior and actions shortly after 1:30 PM on 11/22/63 (such as: Oswald turning his back to the street just as the police cars went roaring by).

And if some conspiracy theorists have a desire to totally discount and deem invalid all of Mr. Brewer's testimony because of this issue of whether he really did hear a radio bulletin at the time he said he heard it, then I think those conspiracists are making a big mistake.

As it turned out, Johnny Brewer was the person who was most directly responsible for setting the wheels in motion which ultimately led to the capture of President Kennedy's (accused) assassin in the Texas Theater less than 90 minutes after JFK was shot.

And I have a strong feeling that those wheels would have been set in motion that day with or without Mr. Brewer hearing anything on the radio about a police officer getting shot nearby. And that's mainly because of Lee Harvey Oswald's appearance and actions when Brewer saw him. Brewer could see that Oswald was "scared", "looked like he had been running", and was trying to duck from the police cars out on the street. And all of this was occurring just an hour after the President had been shot and killed just a few miles away. Those factors, in total, resulted in Brewer taking the actions that he took on November 22, 1963.

I've often wondered which one of the several Dallas/Fort Worth radio stations Johnny Brewer was listening to when he was standing behind the counter of his Hardy's Shoe Store on the afternoon of November 22, 1963. He doesn't provide that information in his Warren Commission testimony, nor does he provide such info in his December 6, 1963, affidavit or during his brief time on the witness stand during the 1986 mock Oswald trial in London. Such information is also not available in Dale Myers' exhaustive book on J.D. Tippit's murder, "With Malice". [EDIT -- I was in error re: Myers' book; Click Here.]

Perhaps in some later interview Brewer mentioned which radio station he was listening to on November 22nd, but I've never been able to pin it down. That particular detail is also not to be found in Brewer's February 27, 1964, FBI interview.

In any event, it's quite clear that at least one of the radio stations in the Dallas-Fort Worth metro area had provided, prior to approximately 1:36 PM (Dallas time), a bulletin concerning the shooting of a police officer in Oak Cliff. We know that whatever radio station Johnny Calvin Brewer was listening to on 11/22/63 most definitely did broadcast such a bulletin (most likely somewhere between 1:30 PM and 1:35 PM).

I agree with Pat Speer that the timing of that initial bulletin concerning the Tippit shooting does seem very fast, given the fact that Officer Tippit wasn't even shot until about 1:14 or 1:15 PM, but the alternative would be to believe that Brewer just made up the part about hearing a radio report about the shooting of a policeman before Brewer ever laid eyes on Lee Harvey Oswald on November 22.

Or, I suppose another alternative would be to believe that Brewer merely conflated the various timelines in his mind when he later told his story about what happened that day. That is to say, via this alternative, Brewer really only heard the information about the shooting of a police officer much later in the day, but his memory got all fuzzy and when he later told people what he remembered, he incorrectly said that the radio report concerning the policeman was something he had heard prior to Oswald poking his head into the lobby of Brewer's shoe store.

Analyzing The Radio Coverage....

If, in fact, Johnny Brewer definitely did hear a radio report about a policeman being shot prior to the time when Brewer saw Lee Oswald lurking in the doorway of the shoe store, I can say with some certainty that one of the stations that Brewer was definitely not listening to on 11/22/63 was KLIF Radio in Dallas....and that's because a timestamp provided by the KLIF announcers during their coverage at 1:48 PM CST indicates that the first KLIF bulletin concerning the shooting of a policeman in Oak Cliff didn't occur for another 14 minutes after that "1:48" timestamp, which would mean that KLIF's first bulletin on the Tippit shooting came at 2:02 PM CST (give or take a couple of minutes). And, of course, by 2:02 PM, Lee Oswald was already in police custody and, in fact, had just entered Dallas Police Headquarters in City Hall a couple of minutes earlier. (The initial bulletin about the Tippit murder comes at 2:25:45 in the video below.)

https://drive.google.com/file/KLIF-Radio (Dallas) (11/22/63)

Another local station that can be eliminated as being the one John Brewer was tuned-in to on 11/22 is Fort Worth's WBAP Radio, which didn't broadcast anything about the shooting incident in Oak Cliff until approximately 1:58 PM CST (go to 4:00:15 in the video below).

https://drive.google.com/file/WBAP-Radio (Fort Worth) (11/22/63)

KRLD Radio (Dallas) can also be eliminated as the source for Brewer's information about the Oak Cliff shooting. By my calculations, the first details heard on KRLD about the shooting of a policeman occurred at 2:04 PM Dallas time (at 1:23:31 in the video below).

https://drive.google.com/file/KRLD-Radio (Dallas) (11/22/63)

KBOX Radio might have been the station that Johnny Brewer had turned on that day, because within the first minute of the KBOX coverage heard below (which equates to about 1:35 PM CST), there's a bulletin which states: "We also have one Dallas detective reported dead on arrival at Parkland Hospital." (If that report was referring to Officer Tippit, then there are two errors in it, because Tippit was taken to Methodist Hospital, not Parkland, and Tippit, of course, was not a "detective". But later radio reports did also make the mistake of calling the slain policeman "Detective Tippit". So that KBOX bulletin probably is referring to Officer Tippit's death. And if that's the case, then Johnny Brewer could have heard about the Tippit shooting prior to seeing Oswald come into the lobby area of his shoe store. And it's also possible that KBOX could have provided a bulletin about the policeman's shooting even earlier than 1:35, but I have no way to confirm whether they did or not, because the version of the KBOX material in my collection begins at about 1:35 PM.)

https://drive.google.com/file/KBOX-Radio (Dallas) (11/22/63)

Another station that's still in the running for a possible pre-1:35 PM bulletin about the Tippit shooting is Dallas' WFAA Radio. I can't confirm one way or the other whether WFAA broadcast any Tippit bulletins prior to about 1:45 PM, because that's when my copy of their coverage begins. But WFAA was very quick with their first bulletin concerning Oswald's arrest in the Texas Theater, which is a bulletin that occurred within a very few minutes of Oswald's capture (at the 4:20 mark in this WFAA Radio coverage).

For the record, the only other Dallas/Fort Worth radio station that I currently have in my assassination archive is a little bit of coverage from KXOL in Fort Worth, but it has been heavily edited and cannot be used for any kind of a reliable timeline of events.

40 minutes ago, Chris Bristow said:

I think if the rifle [in the photograph seen in DVP's post below] was evidence found, they would not hold it by the stock because it would obscure fingerprints.

Exactly.

(Isn't this blatantly obvious to everyone here?)

19 minutes ago, David G. Healy said:

nah, LHO creating composites that implicates himself? Common sense Sherlock. He'd of burned up a ton or print paper getting the composites aligned and correct. And it would take time... lots of time.

[...]

No this took a pro. Are you sure it wasn't Dale *wanna see my EMMY* Myers who wrote this nonsense you quote? 

Well, David H., the facilities at Jaggars were certainly there and available for Oswald to use (if he, indeed, knew how) during that brief 6-day period in question (April 1-6, 1963, just before he was fired).

And if it could somehow be proven that Oswald did, indeed, develop the backyard pictures himself (which can probably never be done), then it would certainly eliminate for all time the decades-old (and also unproven) notion that the backyard photos are fakes.

Because, as you yourself implied, why would Oswald himself be creating and developing a series of fraudulent composite pictures that implicate himself? That idea, of course, is nuts.
 

Stephanie Goldberg said:

Where did Oswald develop the infamous gun photos?

[...]

A note from Seth Kantor's notebook in the Warren Commission exhibits says in part -

"Ask Fritz --

1 - Who N.C. preacher who tipped them about the mail-order purchase?

2 - 501 Elm is place that processed photo.  What are details of photo (showing gun & Daily Worker head: "Be Militant")"

501 Elm is the Dal-Tex building, isn't it?  Did they have a photo processing facility in March of 1963 among their offices?  I couldn't find that information.  And where did Mr. Kantor obtain this information about where the photo was allegedly processed?

Good questions, Stephanie.

I don't think I've ever heard anything about where the backyard photos might have been developed and processed.

But if it could somehow be established that one or more of the various backyard snapshots had been handled and processed by "XX Drug Store" or "XX Photo Lab" (or wherever), it would help to show that the photos were developed via normal non-sinister means and, therefore, are likely legitimate (i.e., non-fake) photographs.

But, as Stephanie herself alluded to in her opening post, it's very possible that Lee Harvey Oswald himself might have developed the backyard photos while he was still employed with Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall in Dallas. It would appear (based on the dates supplied earlier in this thread) that Oswald had six days of opportunity before he was fired (between March 31 and April 6, 1963) to take advantage of the processing facilities at Jaggars after the time when the backyard pictures were most likely taken (which was probably on March 31st).

I'll check Vince Bugliosi's book and see if he's got something in there about this topic.*

* EDIT ---- Here's what I found:

"Oswald asked his [Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall] coworker Dennis Ofstein whether the company equipment could be used to make copies of prints and enlargement of photographs that had been taken in small-format cameras. Ofstein told him that while Jaggers [sic] didn't sanction the use of company equipment for private projects, people did it now and then. He showed Oswald how to do it and watched as Oswald made photographic enlargements of snapshots taken in Minsk and while Oswald was in the service in Japan. Lee would later also do some other work that Ofstein never knew about, making calling cards for George de Mohrenschildt as well as Marina and himself. He also experimented with making photographic copies of some of his own documents—his birth certificate and his military and draft registration ID cards—which he would soon use in attempts to create crude forgeries. It was also during this period that Oswald started sending samples of his photographic work, apparently carried out in stolen moments at Jaggers [sic], to leftist organizations back East.

[...]

Oswald probably intended the backyard photographs to be of great historical significance, telling Marina the photos were "for posterity." He may have intended to leave them for inclusion in the dossier he was compiling on his assassination of General Walker. Or they could have been another exhibit he could flash at Cuban leaders who were going to welcome him with open arms when they realized that he was the one who killed one of Castro's greatest American enemies. If anything went wrong with his plan, the photo could still serve as a memento. Several days later, after developing and printing at least three of the negatives at Jaggers [sic], he gave Marina a print, on the back of which he had written, "For Junie, from Papa." Marina was appalled. "Why would Junie want a picture with guns?" she asked Lee. "To remember Papa by sometime," he said.

Sadly, the photographs did in fact turn out to be of historical significance, not because of Lee's bungled attempt to kill General Walker but because of his all too successful attempt to murder John F. Kennedy. One of the three received the accolade of becoming a front cover of Life magazine, and it has been reprinted countless times in newspapers, magazines, books, and television documentaries. The photograph Marina took that Sunday afternoon has become the enduring universal image of, for some, the assassin of President Kennedy, for others, the helpless patsy caught in the vortex of a dark conspiracy. Whichever it is, one thing is reasonably certain. It is the image by which, more than any other, Lee Harvey Oswald wanted to be remembered, not just by his baby daughter but by the entire world. And that wish came true." -- Pages 666, 685, and 686 of "Reclaiming History"

The two sources listed for this assertion by Bugliosi....

"after developing and printing at least three of the negatives at Jaggers"

....are:

1 H 16, WCT Marina N. Oswald

and:

McMillan, Marina and Lee, p.341.

Since there's nothing on 1 H 16 that says anything about Lee developing the pictures himself at Jaggars, that must mean that "Marina And Lee, Page 341" is the source for the info about Lee developing "at least three of the negatives at Jaggers [sic]".

I can't check Page 341 of the 1977 edition of Priscilla McMillan's book (I don't have it). So I'll have to assume that McMillan says something on that page that made Vincent Bugliosi 100% positive that Lee Harvey Oswald himself developed three of the backyard photos at Jaggars in early April of 1963. What that "something" might be, I haven't the foggiest. And Bugliosi's firm, definitive stance on this matter is even more questionable when we consider the following HSCA testimony provided by Marina Oswald in 1978:

~~~~~~~~~~~

MR. McDONALD -- "Do you know if Lee developed these by himself, at his place of employment?"

MRS. MARINA OSWALD-PORTER -- "I think once he worked somewhere, it was possible to do it at work, I believe. I really do not know if he developed himself or he send it for."

~~~~~~~~~~~

Mr. Bugliosi was probably right about LHO developing the backyard photos himself while Lee still worked at Jaggars (what with Lee having easy access to the photo-processing facilities at Jaggars just after the pictures were taken—and what with Lee also being such a cheapskate and all), but given the way Marina testified above, I think Vince should have probably phrased the relative sentence on page 685 of his book in this manner instead:

"...after PROBABLY developing and printing at least three of the negatives at Jaggars..."

But Vince is usually pretty good (and accurate, IMO) when it comes to his "reasonable inferences". Here's another example:

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/Bugliosi And The Smelly Bus

Steve Thomas said:

If John is right, those publishing companies would still have been located in the Dal-Tex building at the time the photos were taken. I wonder why they moved en masse.

Here's some more info that might clear up the confusion about why the various book publishers all moved from 501 Elm Street (the Dal-Tex Building) to 411 Elm Street (the TSBD Building)....

The text below comes from these two sources:

http://maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=48681#relPageId=25

http://deeppoliticsforum.com/411 Elm Street's Mysterious History

----------------------------------

"1952 – the TSBD management and clerical personnel at Pacific Avenue building relocated to the first floor of 501 Elm St (the Dal-Tex building). At some point, Jack Cason decides to lease the building across the street, 411 Elm St. There is some confusion about when this happened. O.V. Campbell told William Weston that this happened around 1958. Spaulding Jones, former branch manager of MacMillan Publishing, thought the move to 411 took place in 1957 or 1958.

[...]

1962 January – the TSBD acquires the 411 Elm St location, leasing it from D.H. Byrd (SS report CO-2-34030 12/7/1963) The Polk’s criss-cross 1962 business directory shows that the TSBD was still listed as having an address on the first floor of 501 Elm St (Dal-Tex Bldg). The same directory lists the 411 Elm St building as vacant. The 1963 directory lists the book companies at 411 Elm. Also that year the first floor of the Dal-Tex becomes vacant. (William Weston)"

4 hours ago, Denis Morissette said:

Thanks David. I didn’t know you had KXOL. Any exclusive audio of KXOL...?

Yes. It's all from the local KXOL (Fort Worth) announcers/reporters (64 minutes total, some of it from 11/24)....

http://jfk-assassination-as-it-happened.blogspot.com/2013/11/kxol-radio.html

16 hours ago, Denis Morissette said:

A few weeks ago I emailed NARA inquiring about the possibility of having them digitizing their JFK audio collection. .... They replied that they intend to digitize this year their RG #272 collection which includes the audio reels of various live broadcasts of Dallas and Fort Worth-area radio stations that probably none of us ever heard. .... What I saw listed were WRR, KIXL, KSKY, KVIL, and KXOL.

That's great, Denis. Thanks for the info.

The only station you mentioned above that is currently part of my own collection is KXOL. I'm always looking for more, so this digitization project from NARA comes as good news to me.

It's interesting that someone from NARA actually asked for your opinion about what things should be digitized. Quite surprising. But nice.

Related Link:

The Kilduff press conference (audio)....

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0KFei3W7bGOQldDOGNGWXFpZW8/view

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

...the application still exists.  But the part where you assign someone else permission to enter your box was supposed to be missing.

But in his article, David alludes that maybe the Commission screwed up and published it.

Maybe David Josephs made the same mistake that Gary Craig made in this discussion from a few years ago:

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/07/post-office-applications.html

Ron Bulman said:

Sounds like they tried to convert Pate's tape to mumbo jumbo.  To discredit it?

You mean you've never heard about Pate's KBOX "re-creation"? ....

http://drive.google.com/KBOX-Radio Assassination "Re-Creation"

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2012/06/kbox-radio.html

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=CD1245

18 minutes ago, Micah Mileto said:

Ten medical professionals from Parkland totally agree that chest tubes were fully administered to the dying President.

So what?

1 hour ago, Micah Mileto said:

...all points of argument have only become more in favor of a conspiracy.

I totally disagree. (Of course.)

“I read the Mel Ayton/David Von Pein book "Beyond Reasonable Doubt" this month. It's brimming with information covering all aspects of the case. I found it hard to put down as it's a real page turner dealing with the heavy technical stuff (the actual Evidence) in a clear, easy-to-understand, though not dumbed-down style. 👍👍👍” -- Steve Kernohan; March 28, 2019

That's what's so great about being a conspiracy fantasist ---- you never run out of "suspects".

This photo was taken during the time of Jack Ruby's trial in February 1964. With the TSBD in the background, several of the jurors at Ruby's trial are seen walking to a cafe for lunch....

8 hours ago, Paul Bacon said:

I don't mean to start anything here, but I just can't help myself:  There's that pesky little spiral nebula, yet again.

Huh????? 

6 hours ago, Rick McTague said:

Here is a pic I took in 2018 that more closely matches the picture from 1963...

Excellent. I'm adding that one to my "Dealey Through The Years" page right now. Thanks!

Do you have the exact date when that pic was taken in 2018? (I like to put the precise dates on my site, if at all possible.)

Expanded Webpage ---- http://kennedy-photos.blogspot.com / Dealey Plaza Photographs (1930-2019)

An extreme rarity below ---- a Dealey Plaza photo from 1962....

http://kennedy-photos.blogspot.com/2019/03/kennedy-gallery-474.html

"What's My Line?" with JFK's pilot, James B. Swindal....

I found this rather cool document at the JFK Library website today, so I thought I'd share it.....

37 minutes ago, David G. Healy said:

you have a short memory. The very generational thing you are touting right now was told to you, and lone nuts worldwide regarding the Nix film and the Zapruder film, years ago.... what was the resolution of a .jpg, png image on the net till 5 years ago, again regardless of overall size? 72dpi sound familiar? We can also discuss multi generational image contrast issues [if] you'd like....

What does anything you just uttered have to do with my general (and factual) comment about the Internet autopsy photos not being "first generation" images (and thus, not to expect very high quality from them)?

~shrug city~

2 minutes ago, Evan Marshall said:

Ah, but we can expect them to be in focus with proper depth of field

And you don't think any of the JFK autopsy photos contain such qualities?

Evan,

But you must keep in mind the fact that none of the autopsy photos we now have access to on the Internet are first-generation photos. The bootleg Internet versions are probably two (or more) generations removed from the originals. So you can't expect HD quality.

1 hour ago, Joseph McBride said:

David must get awfully tired of spewing his baseless 1964-vintage clichés about the case but probably closes his eyes and thinks of his regular checks.

Attention forum moderators....

Please give Joseph McBride the warning and/or suspension he so clearly deserves for making the stupid and unwarranted comment quoted above. Thank you.

Here's the forum rule (which I will now cite every time I again see this crap being directed at me). After a few suspensions, maybe this nonsense will cease....

Accusations of Member Credibility:-

Members that post and/or imply that a fellow member of this forum may be paid to post on this forum...

Action:-

Such behaviour may lead to a suspension or ban from the forum.