Robert Prudhomme

I didn't know that, Dave. Thanks.

Do you believe, Bill, that Lovelady and Shelley were correct when they both testified to the Warren Commission that they did not leave the steps of the TSBD until Gloria Calvery had returned to the steps of the TSBD and had engaged Lovelady and Shelley in what can only be described as a fairly involved conversation?

Great interview. It would be a privilege and an honour to be able to sit down and converse with Mr. Ernest for an afternoon. Too bad he never visits this forum.

Thanks for posting that, Thomas. That can't be posted often enough on here.

Excellent observation, Ray, as usual. Happy New Year!

Hi Bart I know you are a firm believer in Shelley and Lovelady being captured on film walking down the Elm St. extension together toward the rail yard. I mean no malice toward people who believe this but, I am just not convinced that we are seeing Shelley and Lovelady, and am going all out to either prove or disprove this. To that end, I have observed the man in the film ID'ed as Shelley is plainly an inch or two taller than the Lovelady figure. As we know Lovelady stood 5'8" tall, I have set about attempting to determine how tall Shelley was in 1963. The only info I have managed to find is a photo of Shelley as an ROTC lieutenant in his senior year in high school. Standing beside Shelley in the photo is another ROTC lieutenant who towers over Shelley by about a foot. For Shelley to be 5'9", this other officer would have to be 6'9"l very tall for 1945. I have managed to find the mailing address for a man I believe to be Shelley's son, plus the address for a journalist who interviewed Shelley in the early 70's. Hopefully, one of these two will be able to tell me if Shelley was short or tall.

To answer the challenge, Bart, there is one scenario that would alleviate Shelley's and Lovelady's lies, at least a bit anyways. If the lady ID'ed as Gloria Calvery really was Calvery, she did not immediately return to the TSBD steps but, rather, appears to have loitered on the grass near the Stemmons sign for several minutes; confirmed by film footage. If she did not return to the steps for 3-4 minutes, and Baker did not enter the TSBD immediately after crossing the Elm St. extension, is it possible Lovelady and Shelley really were 25 steps down the Elm St, extension when they looked back and saw Truly and Baker entering the TSBD?

I love it when we agree on things.

Nope, no problem here! I know some LN's that might choke on this a little, though.

You're about one post away from going into my "Ignore File".

Whether these women were doing a group hug or standing with ten feet between each of them is irrelevant, Bill. Read their FBI statements, which Robin has so graciously reproduced for us here. They obviously knew each other, and recognized themselves as a group, and this is reflected in their statements.

I think these girls all copied off one essay when they wrote their exams, Robin. They all wrote the same thing.

It just keeps getting better, Robin. You CANNOT make this stuff up. Happy New Year from the west coast of Canada!

As usual

I don't believe I understand your question.

For some people, yes.

"PPPS Seems to me you'd be just as perplexed if Dark Complected Woman WAS Calvary. Am I wrong?" Possibly. It all depends upon how you define "perplexed". If this really was Gloria Calvery, she certainly didn't make it anywhere near the TSBD entrance prior to Baker entering the TSBD, and Shelley and Lovelady certainly didn't converse with her before they saw Baker and Truly entering the TSBD. Here is what "Calvery" was doing after the assassination ("Calvery" on left): She certainly does not appear to be running flat out for the TSBD steps or the little concrete island. The ONLY thing that could make everything work, if this really was Calvery, would be if Baker did not enter the TSBD 2 seconds after running actoss the Elm St. extension. This would make all four of the women's FBI statements true, give Calvery the necessary 3-4 minutes to return to the TSBD steps, give Calvery enough time to converse with Shelley and Lovelady AND give S&L enough time to be 25 steps down the Elm St. extension when they looked back to see Baker and Truly entering the TSBD. It would also explain why Buell Wesley Frazier and Joe Molina never saw Baker run past them on the TSBD steps as he entered the building; by this point they would have already gone back inside the TSBD themselves. However, this creates other problems. If the above were true, then Baker and Truly never encountered Oswald on the second floor and Victoria Adams and Sandra Styles really did run down the stairs from the 4th floor as quickly as they claimed, without running into Oswald OR Baker and Truly. Please feel free to criticize this post harshly, as I'm sure you will.

Yes, I never saw that statement until just recently. I wonder how the folks that subscribe to Shelley and Lovelady walking to the rail yards together are going to deal with this statement? My first question to them; where are the cops?

" PS It appears to me that three or four of those statements are to be believed, except for one small detail -- Calvary wasn't with them. " So, you're saying they were great statements, save for one teensy weensy little error, that being Gloria Calvery wasn't with them? Does that make everything okay in your mind? What, did they think Calvery was in disguise as a black woman or something?

While it is easy for us to speculate that Running Woman or a host of other women were Gloria Calvery, the fact remains there are three sworn statements given to the FBI by Karen Westbrook, Karan Hicks and Carol Reed stating that Gloria Calvery was one of a group of five women that also included Westbrook, Hicks and Reed, standing just east of the Stemmons Freeway sign. Not only does the woman ID'ed as Calvery look nothing like the real Calvery, this woman remained on the grassy area next to the Stemmons sign long after Baker supposedly entered the TSBD; seriously bringing into question whether Running Woman could be Gloria Calvery. Without the FBI statements of Hicks, Reed and Westbrook, I would write this off as a simple case of misidentification of Gloria Calvery.

Which, of course, brings us right back to the discussion Thomas and I are having regarding just who and where was the real Gloria Calvery? "Something is rotten in the state of Denmark." ~~Hamlet~~ by William Shakespeare

It is possible that Speth confused Reed for Hicks and vice versa. This only confirms our problem with Calvery, as Westbrook looks a lot like her high school photo, and the woman ID'ed as Reed could pass for the Hicks presented by the HSCA. " It seems to me that you don't want to accept the possibility that Dishong and Westbrook and Hicks and Reed and a "Miss X" (aka "Dark Complected Woman") really were standing pretty close together on Elm Street, like they said in their FBI statements and as captured in Zapruder and Bronson, and that you're convinced that none of those those five FBI statements are to be believed." On the contrary, Thomas, I do accept that Dishong, Westbrook, Hicks, Reed and "Dark Complected Woman" were standing pretty close together on Elm St., and that they were the first group of women in a group east of the Stemmons sign. What I am having trouble with is how Westbrook, Hicks and Reed could give statements to the FBI stating Gloria Calvery was in their group if Dark Complected Woman was not Gloria Calvery. Capiche? PS Dishong did not give a statement to the FBI, or anyone else.

He might have, he might not have. That does not interest me nearly as much as this question; why would he and Lovelady change their stories so dramatically when they testified to the Warren Commission?

Anyone seen Barto these last few days? i have a question I'd like to pass on to one of the ROKC members.

" Mr. SHELLEY - I didn't do anything for a minute. " A minute??? Dammit Shelley, you got to get off those steps faster than that. You gotta be 25 steps down the Elm St. extension when that big ol' cop goes barrelin' up the stairs!