Robert Prudhomme
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Posts posted by Robert Prudhomme
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If LHO stated on the order form he was enclosing $19.95, how did he end up purchasing a money order for $21.45?
Its because there was a 1. 50 handling charge.
Yes, I know there was a $1.50 shipping and handling charge that brought the total up to $21.45. I just find it odd that LHO would not have entered $21.45 in the space labelled "Enclosed is....".
I live in northern Canada in a quite remote place, far from good shopping in the cities and, before the advent of the Internet and Ebay, I ordered many items in exactly the same way LHO allegedly ordered the rifle, by cutting out an order form from a magazine (if we couldn't get it from the Sears catalogue).
I can't see LHO being so careless as to forget the S & H charges. Even if he did, and only saw his mistake when he purchased the money order, wouldn't he likely have crossed out $19.95 and written in $21.45?
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If LHO stated on the order form he was enclosing $19.95, how did he end up purchasing a money order for $21.45?
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Sandy,
The FBI didn't get the "wrong order" from the microfilm. There WAS NO ORDER FOR $21.95 for the C2766 rifle. That was merely a slipped digit. And Harry Holmes talks about that mistake in his testimony too. That was one of the reasons it took a little longer to find the $21.45 Hidell money order --- because they were searching (in vain) for the wrong amount ($21.95). Once they realized what the correct figure was--$21.45--they found it very quickly.
Do you think Waldman No. 7 is a fake document, Sandy? It clearly says $21.45 on it. And it also says C2766. And it says A. Hidell. And Italian Carbine. And William Waldman testified in detail about that order form. Was he a plotter too?
I think you have a slipped digit, Davie; possibly several.
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Interesting that the ad stated the rifle was 40" overall and had an 18" barrel. C2766 had a 21" barrel.
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For some reason I am unable to post an image larger than 3 kb. But I had a crop ready from Don Roberdeau's Dealey Plaza map, which shows Peggy Hawkin's location in blue type. My apologies for any imprecise language in describing her whereabouts. She is on the sidewalk about 100 feet up from the Stemmons sign, in front of the retaining wall, which she described as "in front of the TSBD building". And she said that she stayed behind there with her small child until she realized there would be no more shots.
And then she "walked back to the front of the TSBD Building." Hawkins and her small child have not been located in the Couch film. We can see from Roberdeau's map, or any map, that as soon as she leaves the retaining wall area to walk onto the Elm St. Extension she is at the front of the Depository.
"She said that a motorcycle police officer was in front of the building at this time..." We don't see Hawkins & child among any spectators near the front steps. Thus, she saw Baker while she was still walking along the Elm St. Extension. And Baker, of course, was filmed sprinting for the steps.
...and that she heard over his radio some remarks about the railroad yards near the building... Baker was double-timing it and had dismounted quickly. Hawkins heard this radio broadcast after he had left his motorcycle.
...HAWKINS said that she then re-entered the TSBD Building by the front door... And Baker was long gone by the time that Hawkins and her small child walked up the front steps and into the lobby.
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And to return to when the subject of Peggy Hawkins got brought up, I had mentioned that While inside the front lobby, Baker asked Truly where the stairs were (III pp. 221, 249)
And Bart objected that There is possible evidence to refute this not just from Peggy Hawkins but Truly's statement that they saw no one there.
It had been a 10-hour day responding to Bart's post. I had never heard of Peggy Hawkins before, and was provided no reference. Fortunately I located her FBI interview after about 15 minutes of work. And the frustration of added work contributed to my lackadaisical description of Hawkins being "in the vicinity of the Stemmons sign". And this vague description still doesn't matter. Because my point is still correct that since Hawkins went behind the retaining wall, that action took up too much time for her to have any chance of witnessing Truly & Baker in the front lobby.
Which refutes Bart's objection. Which means that this point of correspondence still holds true, as regards the T & B testimonies. And that is one of 13 points of correspondence, as regards their testimonies about the elevator & the lunchroom.
And those who believe the hoax hypothesis still have not offered a defensible explanation as to why the will-call counter bump, which was superfluous to the main line of action, would be added into a confabulated story.
I have never seen anyone write so much, and say so little, and offer up nothing to back up his perspective.
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Here is a cancelled passport showing the same height of 5' 11".
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Interesting item I pulled up from the DPD archives:
Lee Harvey Oswald's record of discharge from the USMC and transfer to the USMC Reserves. Note the height at 71" (5' 11") and the weight at 150 lbs.
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I give up. This guy is WAY out in left field.
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Bob,
Can you show us this paycheck voucher?
No, I have never seen it. I tried looking for it at the National Archives site but, either I'm looking in the wrong place or it does not exist there.
From what I have read, it is in the name of someone named James A. Jackson.
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Alan Ford has pointed out something very interesting over at DPF, and I thought I would bring it up here. Below is the link to the DPD inventory of all items found on Oswald at the time of his arrest.
http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340292/m1/1/
About half way down is listed a "paycheck voucher from American Bakeries Company dated 8/22/60". From what I recall, wasn't Oswald in Russia from 1959 to 1962?
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Re: Robert Prudhomme, post #272-
Please note that WCD 897 p. 35 states that Peggy Hawkins "estimated that the President's car was less than fifty feet away from her when he was shot."
Therefore, since President Kennedy was shot when his limousine was in the vicinity of the Stemmons sign, I felt it was appropriate for me to synopsize Hawkins' statement by describing her as "in the vicinity of the Stemmons sign", rather than look up her exact location, since it had been a long day. It was not misleading to describe her that way. And after all, her specific location mattered little, since she said that she hid with her small child behind the retaining wall upon hearing shots. And this action took up too much time for her to have any chance of witnessing Truly & Baker in the front lobby.
I cannot help you with your anger-management problem, but rather than being a one-line cheap shot artist, you might find some way to express it off-line.
Peggy Hawkins states she was less than fifty feet from JFK at the time he was shot, and that she hid behind the retaining wall following the shots. Considering that the majority of the population has difficulty accurately estimating distance, this hardly pinpoints Ms. Hawkins location at the Stemmons sign. If JFK's limo had passed her before the shots were fired, her estimation of fifty feet could have placed her at the concrete island across from the steps of the TSBD. At this location, she could have hidden behind the retaining wall by merely stepping behind it, instead of having to climb over it, as would have been necessary if she was down by the Stemmons sign. This is a far more likelier scenario. wouldn't you agree?
You obviously believe the part of her statement about hiding behind the retaining wall, yet don't believe she is telling the truth about seeing Baker in front of the TSBD, simply because it does not agree with your theory. This is not a good way to conduct research.
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From Wikipedia:
"Coca-Cola is a carbonated soft drink.[1] It is produced by The Coca-Cola Company of Atlanta, Georgia, and is often referred to simply as Coke (a registered trademark of The Coca-Cola Company in the United States since March 27, 1944). Originally intended as a patent medicine when it was invented in the late 19th century by John Pemberton, Coca-Cola was bought out by businessmanAsa Griggs Candler, whose marketing tactics led Coke to its dominance of the world soft-drink market throughout the 20th century. The name refers to two of its original ingredients: kola nuts, a source of caffeine, and coca leaves. The current formula of Coca-Colaremains a trade secret, although a variety of reported recipes and experimental recreations have been published."
"Vendo-39" Coke machine, produced from 1949 until the mid-50's. Note the "Have a Coke" logo on the side of the machine.
If Coca Cola was available in the TSBD in 1963, it goes without saying that Coke was also available.
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Why would two obvious scalpel slits in a shirt collar be tested for the presence of metal from a bullet jacket?
Robert,
From the above it appears that you believe there were definite holes through the shirt halves in addition to the 'slits' - is this correct?
My question has nothing to do with what I personally believe. It has more to do with why anyone testing the shirt for deposits left by bullet jacket material would bother testing two obvious scalpel slits, if it was that plain they were not holes made by a projectile.
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Garbage in, garbage out, Richard.
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Why would two obvious scalpel slits in a shirt collar be tested for the presence of metal from a bullet jacket?
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...I expect a serious list to counteract...
1- While inside the front lobby, Baker asked Truly where the stairs were (III pp. 221, 249) There is possible evidence to refute this not just from Peggy Hawkins but Truly's statement that they saw no one there. Bart, I am 61 years old. Would you please extend me the common courtesy of citing a reference for these pronouncements? Truly's statement is from his 11/22 FBI statement. There's nothing on Peggy Hawkins in the Warren Volumes. In WCD 897 pp. 35-36 we find that Peggy Hawkins and her small child watched the motorcade from the sidewalk in the vicinity of the Stemmons sign. They ducked behind the retaining wall when they heard shots. And then she probably heard Decker's transmission about getting some men into the railyard from probably Baker's motorcycle radio. She then re-entered the TSBD via the front door and went up to the 3rd floor via the elevator- little doubt here that was the passenger elevator.
So you are out of your tree if you think Peggy Hawkins was in the front lobby in time to see Truly & Baker there.
Truly's statement is interesting; Sean pointed this out. There's no ostensible reason for him to say "They saw no one there"- it's a denial about PrayerMan. But your logic is skewed if you think this Truly-statement refutes Baker, inside the lobby, asking where the stairs were.
Good night. I have done enough work for one day.
Warren Commission Document 897, pp 35-36, just happens to be Peggy Hawkins' statement and, regardless of how many times I read it, I cannot find a SINGLE reference to her standing near the Stemmons Freeway sign.
I don't know why we waste our time on this nut case.
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I thought Ashton Gray did a very good job of demonstrating the so called "slits" in the shirt were actually holes that aligned with each other when the collar was done up.
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I thought the issue was where the throat wound was created -- Dealey or Parkland?
If that's not the issue -- my bad.
The issue I am addressing is whether the wound was above or below the collar line, but of course that is directly related to the DP v. Parkland issue. IMO, the wound occurred in DP not in Parkland. But there are question marks here dependent upon a throat wound located ABOVE the collar or BELOW. If below the collar, where is the hole in the shirt corresponding to the wound? Do round bullets make a 1/2" vertical slit in a shirt and a 1/5" round hole in the body and leave "No bullet material?" On this basis alone a stronger case is made for an above the collar wound. If above the collar, what made the slit and the nick? Not blunt-nosed scissors...how does a trained RN removing a necktie with a scalpel cut a slit completely through multiple layers of cloth without slicing into JFK's neck? Each option has it's positives and its negatives.
Tom
That sums things up quite well, Tom, although I feel that Ashton has demonstrated quite well that the openings in the shirt collar were not exactly slits. If the wound is below the collar, and there was no metal residue left on the shirt collar material, this only leaves a certain number of options open.
1. We are mistaken about organic residue on bullets, and the bullet (or bullet fragment) exiting JFK's neck was coated in organic matter and left no residue on the collar.
So JFK reacted to throat trauma prior to having a bullet fragment exit his throat?
2. Cliff is right and a projectile made from plastic either entered or exited JFK's throat, also nicking the tie and going through the shirt collar.
Where does this "exit" stuff come from?
3. A fragment of bone from JFK's neck exited his throat, nicking his tie knot and passing through his shirt collar on the way through.
So he was shot in the head and reacted to a bullet fragment leaving his throat?
Which means the neck x-ray is faked?
If you insist on ignoring all the witness testimony and photographic evidence, any scenario is" viable", I guess...
4. Ashton is right and everything (wound in throat, hole in collar and nick in tie) was made by an assassin with a 1/4" diameter needle connected to a syringe full of non-traceable poison.
Right, so he reacted to throat trauma ten minutes before Bowron shivved him in the throat.
Riiiiight....
I cannot think of any other possibilities, but please add on to this list if you think of anything else.
Cliff
The difficulty I have with you is that, while I am willing to concede there is very little in this case that can be proven beyond a reasonable doubt, you, on the other hand, expound theories as if they were proven facts.
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He may have been reacting to what you call "throat trauma" but, how does that establish that the projectile causing this came from the front, Cliff?
It was generally described at Parkland as a wound of entrance in spite of all attempts to parse badgered WC testimony.
The wound had no exit
The Mantik-Seal-of-Approval-Genuine neck x-ray shows an air pocket overlaying the right C7/T1 transverse processes -- that trajectory points to the throat entrance.
The neck x-ray destroys the skull fragment/exit scenario.
Only if the neck x-ray is genuine. Custer seemed to think it wasn't.
Mantik says it isn't a matter of doubt -- the neck x-ray is genuine.
Custer has been all over the map.
Prove it.
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I thought the issue was where the throat wound was created -- Dealey or Parkland?
If that's not the issue -- my bad.
The issue I am addressing is whether the wound was above or below the collar line, but of course that is directly related to the DP v. Parkland issue. IMO, the wound occurred in DP not in Parkland. But there are question marks here dependent upon a throat wound located ABOVE the collar or BELOW. If below the collar, where is the hole in the shirt corresponding to the wound? Do round bullets make a 1/2" vertical slit in a shirt and a 1/5" round hole in the body and leave "No bullet material?" On this basis alone a stronger case is made for an above the collar wound. If above the collar, what made the slit and the nick? Not blunt-nosed scissors...how does a trained RN removing a necktie with a scalpel cut a slit completely through multiple layers of cloth without slicing into JFK's neck? Each option has it's positives and its negatives.
Tom
That sums things up quite well, Tom, although I feel that Ashton has demonstrated quite well that the openings in the shirt collar were not exactly slits. If the wound is below the collar, and there was no metal residue left on the shirt collar material, this only leaves a certain number of options open.
1. We are mistaken about organic residue on bullets, and the bullet (or bullet fragment) exiting JFK's neck was coated in organic matter and left no residue on the collar.
2. Cliff is right and a projectile made from plastic either entered or exited JFK's throat, also nicking the tie and going through the shirt collar.
3. A fragment of bone from JFK's neck exited his throat, nicking his tie knot and passing through his shirt collar on the way through.
4. Ashton is right and everything (wound in throat, hole in collar and nick in tie) was made by an assassin with a 1/4" diameter needle connected to a syringe full of non-traceable poison.
I cannot think of any other possibilities, but please add on to this list if you think of anything else.
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He may have been reacting to what you call "throat trauma" but, how does that establish that the projectile causing this came from the front, Cliff?
It was generally described at Parkland as a wound of entrance in spite of all attempts to parse badgered WC testimony.
The wound had no exit
The Mantik-Seal-of-Approval-Genuine neck x-ray shows an air pocket overlaying the right C7/T1 transverse processes -- that trajectory points to the throat entrance.
The neck x-ray destroys the skull fragment/exit scenario.
Only if the neck x-ray is genuine. Custer seemed to think it wasn't.
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He may have been reacting to what you call "throat trauma" but, how does that establish that the projectile causing this came from the front, Cliff?
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Think I didn't notice? You've thrown a couple of hissy fits over at the ROKC when you couldn't get your way.
John Armstrong blasts the mail order rifle “evidence”
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
Yes, I was trying to decipher what the writing to the right of $19.95 said, too, but with no luck, not even on the PBS order form. It doesn't look like "$1.50 - S & H" though, at least not to me.