Robert Prudhomme

"And for the record, I never at any time heard any announcer or anyone else use the term Argentine Mauser during the weekend of 11/22/63."

Kenneth, I'm not trying to pick a fight with you but, there is only one group of Mausers chambered for the 7.65mm cartridge, and they are universally known as Argentine Mausers. No one had to mention the word "Argentine", as soon as they said 7.65mm, the only thing it could be was an Argentine Mauser.

Well, this is all speculation, of course, thanks to the first-rate investigation of the crime. And it still doesn't tell us who did it.

The flechette scenario leads to Persons of Interest -- the Staff Support Group within US Army Special Operations Division at Ft. Detrick, MD, especially individuals described by flechette developer Charles Senseney as an Air Force colonel and an Army colonel who were conducting CIA ops with military cover.

http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/church/reports/vol1/pdf/ChurchV1_6_Senseney.pdf

Agreed, Cliff. Establishing the existence of any type of exotic projectile in this assassination beyond a home made hollow point bullet, such as the flechettes you speak of or the highly complex (and unheard of in 1963) frangible bullets I speak of, automatically eliminates 99.999999% of the population as suspects, and points directly at agencies of the US Government with access to high tech weaponry.

Let's say the bullets that caused the back wound and throat wound were removed before autopsy. (That seems to me the most likely explanation, given Humes's reference to pre-autopsy surgery to the head as noted in the FBI report, i.e. the body was altered.) What would be the purpose of removing the bullets? Seems to me the logical explanation would be that the bullets were not fired from the patsy's brand of rifle. And this removal only became necessary when the lone-nut scenario was hastily put into effect. Otherwise there would been no need to alter the body at all. The official story would have been the true one: JFK was ambushed by a team of shooters. (The fiction would have been it was a team sent by Castro.) In sum, there is IMO a logical and likely explanation to this bullet mystery.

What weighs against its likelihood for me are the two defective rounds.

What are the odds of firing two conventional rounds, hit nothing but soft tissue, and neither exit?

You are referring to the back shot that went no where and the throat shot? yes and that would also be from 2 different shooters. Would seem like odds would be against it

If the tactical planning for the Dealey ambush featured a first-shot/kill-shot, the execution was nearly disastrous.

Not only was the first shot a short load but it hit the throat and not the head.

Second shot, short load and another miss, hitting JFK in the back.

The world's top shooters, stone cold killers.

Two shots, two misses, two defective rounds.

What are the odds of that?

That hound don't hunt in my book...

And you criticize me for presenting my theories as stone cold facts.......

Jon

Interesting question. I'm reading the deposition to the ARRB of Jerrol Custer (Bethesda x-ray technician) at the moment and seeing a couple of things I never noticed the first time through.

It seems Custer helped remove JFK from the shipping casket and assisted in laying him out on the dissecting table. Following this, he, his assistant and one of the FBI agents (not sure if Sibert or O'Neil) were kicked out of the autopsy room and made to wait for an hour until being summoned back to the autopsy to take his first x-rays. How many were still present in the theatre, while he was gone, who were not autopsy doctors or high ranking military brass is difficult to determine.

When he returned, he observed the "Y" incision had been made on JFK's abdomen and some, if not all, of the organs had been removed. He was unsure if the heart and lungs were removed by this point, but he did see one of the doctors dissecting JFK's liver.

If JFK's lungs had been removed, prior to his chest being x-rayed, the chest x-rays could be quite legitimate, yet not show a single fragment from a frangible bullet in JFK's right lung.

Another thing claimed by Jerrol Custer was that the x-rays he took of JFK's neck showed many small fragments in the vicinity of cervical vertebrae C3/C4.

From the HSCA anaylsis of the cervical x-ray:

<quote>

On the film of the right side, taken post-autopsy, there are two small metallic densities in the

region of the C7 right transverse process. These densities are felt to be artifact, partly because

of their marked density, because there is a similar artifact overlying the body of C7, and because

these metallic-like densities were not present on the previous, pre-autopsy film. Therefore, I

assume that these are screen artifacts from debris present in the cassette at the time that

this film was exposed.<quote off>

Custer was speaking of far more than two fragments.

At C3/C4...a result of the head shot/s, I'd reckon.

Its possible, though why there wouldn't be an equal number of fragments at C1 and C2 is a bit of a mystery, assuming the fragments would have travelled through the opening in the base of the skull, at the top of the spine, called the foramen magnum.

I was thinking they might have more to do with the projectile that entered the throat.

Kenneth, did you not see Roger Craig claiming the impossible, that he read the inscription "7.65 Mauser" on the base of the rifle barrel, from 8 inches away?

P.S.

The one you claim from '63 does not exist.

Beginning about the 5:00 mark, Roger Craig relates how he read "7.65 Mauser" on the base of the barrel.

The rifle seen lying on the floor, and outlined in red, at the 5:50 mark is the Remington Model 8 brought into the TSBD by the DPD detective.

Translat

If you can find me the film, I can tell you the make and model of the rifle by looking at it. The Carcanos were very distinctive rifles.

You have to understand you do not really have much of a case there. You saw a silent film, and a narrator tells you they are ID'ing a Mauser rifle. Excuse me for not peeing my pants in excitement.

Every film I have seen of the 6th floor has clearly shown a 6.5mm Carcano M91/38 short rifle or a 7.35mm Carcano M38 short rifle. The two rifles are virtually indistinguishable.

A DPD detective is seen walking out of the TSBD with a Remington Model 8 semi-auto rifle. This is not unusual, as this rifle was a favourite of Southern law enforcement since the days of Bonnie and Clyde.

I'm not flat out saying you are wrong. I just want to see the film for myself. If it's not a Carcano in the film you speak of, it will be obvious very quickly.

Robert, as I said, I'm not going to link you to something you've likely seen several times and just want to ignore. And I don't care what kind of rifle was found in the TSBD because none were ever fired from the 6th floor snipers nest on ll/22/63, so just what difference does it make what the conspirators planted. This is an example of the kind of crap the Nutters want the CTers to do is argue the details that DO NOT MATTER. As you well know, the rifle you claim was in the TSBD is NOT the same as the rifle in the FAKE BYP's and neither of them is the rifle alledgedly ordered by A Hidell from Kleins's. So, what difference does it make 'what kind of rifle did they find'? you said:" Excuse me for not peeing my pants in excitement." I'd sure hope you aren't so bent on thinking you've finally found something someone is right or wrong on that you are standing there holding your breath. Maybe you could be working on supplying some of those delicacies you keep promising us 'when you get time' between your plumbing jobs.

Translation = Kenneth cannot find the film

yes, thanks, Ron - and that makes me wonder why it's not so obviously going up and down in Zapruder...

this and other oddities make me wonder about the films authenticity.

Welcome to the club.

If you can find me the film, I can tell you the make and model of the rifle by looking at it. The Carcanos were very distinctive rifles.

You have to understand you do not really have much of a case there. You saw a silent film, and a narrator tells you they are ID'ing a Mauser rifle. Excuse me for not peeing my pants in excitement.

Every film I have seen of the 6th floor has clearly shown a 6.5mm Carcano M91/38 short rifle or a 7.35mm Carcano M38 short rifle. The two rifles are virtually indistinguishable.

A DPD detective is seen walking out of the TSBD with a Remington Model 8 semi-auto rifle. This is not unusual, as this rifle was a favourite of Southern law enforcement since the days of Bonnie and Clyde.

I'm not flat out saying you are wrong. I just want to see the film for myself. If it's not a Carcano in the film you speak of, it will be obvious very quickly.

Roger Craig stated in an interview that he looked at the rifle and, on the base of the barrel, read the following: "7.65 Mauser".

Unfortunately for Craig, Mauser did not stamp any words or numbers on the base of the 7.65 Mauser barrel. All information was on the side of the receiver. They also never stamped the calibre on the 7.65 Mauser, so there is no way he could have read "7.65" on the rifle. It's a good story but, it is full of holes.

" I recall, myself, actually seeing them looking at a rifle and apparently reading directly off of it "Mauser"."

Is "apparently" reading the word "Mauser" the same as actually reading the word "Mauser", or does it require more imagination?

"Yes, I have seen videos that show the same thing within the last 10 years that I saw over 50 years ago....."

Would you mind posting links to these videos for us?

Another thing claimed by Jerrol Custer was that the x-rays he took of JFK's neck showed many small fragments in the vicinity of cervical vertebrae C3/C4.

From the HSCA anaylsis of the cervical x-ray:

<quote>

On the film of the right side, taken post-autopsy, there are two small metallic densities in the

region of the C7 right transverse process. These densities are felt to be artifact, partly because

of their marked density, because there is a similar artifact overlying the body of C7, and because

these metallic-like densities were not present on the previous, pre-autopsy film. Therefore, I

assume that these are screen artifacts from debris present in the cassette at the time that

this film was exposed.<quote off>

Custer was speaking of far more than two fragments.

I believe they failed to see a large wound on JFK's temple for the simple fact there was no large head wound on the temple.

I have seen all of the "research" regarding a Mauser being found on the 6th floor. Most of it is based on Roger Craig, and most of it is a lie.

Oh, I see, Jackie just put in back in place, and then coagulation, etc. pretty much held it in place. Right. Have either of you ever seen a skull blown out before?

Think really hard about how many fractured bones there would have been hanging out of that temple wound, not to mention the fact there were several missing skull fragments that were found on the street. I seriously doubt Jackie could have just "put it all back together" and none of the doctors at Parkland would have even noticed that half of JFK's brains had been blown out his temple.

If there was not a large hole in the back of the head, and the one on the temple was hidden, how did any of these good doctors even know JFK had a large head wound?

Show me the proof that a Mauser was found in the TSBD on 22/11/63.

Another thing claimed by Jerrol Custer was that the x-rays he took of JFK's neck showed many small fragments in the vicinity of cervical vertebrae C3/C4.

In a deposition to the ARRB in the 1990's Jerrol Custer, the x-ray technician on duty at Bethesda the night of JFK's autopsy, testified that JFK's thoracic organs (heart and lungs) were removed prior to him x-raying JFK's chest. He also stated he was not present when the organs were removed and that there was a very limited number of people present for this evisceration.

Two simultaneous bullets might give us the effect seen in z313 but, why did no medical personnel at Parkland report seeing a large wound in the right temple? As seen in the frames immediately following z313, there appears to be a large "bag" hanging down from the temple. How could such a thing be missed by doctors?

I believe there is a great deal of evidence pointing to a large gaping wound in the right rear of JFK's head, and a limited amount of evidence to the contrary.

Is anybody here seriously suggesting that the rifle seen in the back yard photos is the same one found in the TSBD?

It's not (long ago demonstrated, sling & mounts, etc.), so which rifle are we suggesting "Hidell" ordered? That needs to be specified before we have a long, detailed discussion about whether LHO ordered it.

Hi Bruce

While they may not be the same rifle, the rifle found on the 6th floor and the rifle in the BYP's are both definitely either 6.5mm Carcano M91/38 short rifles or 7.35mm Carcano M38 short rifles.

Well, as you said, the Zapruder film contradicts what the majority of doctors at Parkland observed. It is easy for WC apologists to say these doctors were unable to accurately locate the wound at the rear of the head, as JFK was lying on his back but, if there was a large blowout in JFK's temple, these same doctors would have been looking directly into it. Oddly, no doctor reported a blowout in JFK's temple.

If JFK had been hit in the temple with an "exploding" bullet, and that bullet, on impact, caused the spray of material seen at z313, there would be no blowout at the back of the skull, simply because most of the bullet would have come apart at the entrance, and would not have penetrated the brain; pushing a large shock wave ahead of it.

Hollow point bullets and the frangible bullets seen at DRT Ammo do not disintegrate on impact with skull bone. I have shot deer with 110 grain .308 hollow point bullets, and they make a tiny entrance wound in a deer's skull no bigger than the regular soft point bullets I normally hunt with. The mercury filled bullets that James Files claimed to have used would be, by necessity, hollow point bullets as well and would function in a wound similarly to the frangible bullets marketed by DRT Ammo. In reality, I do not know if mercury filled bullets even exist. The principle is sound, though, and I believe such a bullet would also make a small entrance wound in a skull. Head shots are only effective if the bullet penetrates the skull intact, and reaches the brain before expanding or fragmenting.

In all the deer I shot with hollow points, I never once saw a large blowout in a skull at the site of the entrance wound. Such a thing actually seems impossible, as the bullet creates a high pressure shock wave ahead of it, not behind it. The closest I ever saw was a deer I shot in the side of the head. In this case, the blowout occurred at the top of the head, almost 90° away from the path of the bullet.

Suffice it to say there is simply no way to reconcile what is seen at z313 in the Zapruder film with the large gaping wound seen at the right rear of JFK's skull.

I saw the President turn the corner in front of me and I waved at him and he waved back. I watched the car on down the street and about the time the car got back near the black and white sign I heard a shot. I started looking around and then I looked up in the red brick building. I saw a man in a window with a gun and I saw him shoot twice. He then stepped back behind some boxes.

I could tell the gun was a rifle and it sounded like an automatic rifle the way he was shooting. I just saw a little bit of the barrel, and some of the trigger housing. This was a white man, he did not have on a hat. I just saw this man for a few seconds. As far as I know, I had never seen this man before.

From the DPD affidavit of Amos Euins, Nov. 22, 1963.

What a stupid question. No one is arguing the existence of a wound in JFK's back.

http://www.drtammo.com/DRT-Technology

Look, Cliff, I have never tried to pass off any of my theories as undisputable fact. Why don't you do me a big favour and just ignore my posts from now on, if they upset you so much? God knows you won't be missed.