Glenn Nall

my thoughts exactly. in fact, those are the same two words that I thought. well, one of those words.

seriously, this is a stupid mistake to pretend he didn't know how cheap and misaligned the scope was - AND no one who plans on using a rifle and scope the next day will do so without sighting the scope in beforehand; AND if the situation in fact DOES call for the rifle to be broken down and "bagged up" and then reassembled, the scope would have to be assumed to be off at that point anyway. So either LHO knew what he was doing with a rifle or he didn't. I don't think the nutters have reached a solid stance on that.

on the other hand, my question is, if the heavies just set up having the scope mounted in order to create a 'prop', why would they have mounted such a POS...? if the whole idea was for the rifle to be found and attached to the "killer", they had to know that the POS scope would be an issue, right?

and this brings up the question i had when i read his statement the other day, where he says he didn't notice, or didn't remember noticing, many people coming (going?) into the lab; something about just the usual attendees.

were there or were there not 35+ people in attendance?

I tend to believe from all the different things i've read that there were quite a number of people there.

as i said, i happen to agree with you. you don't have to sell me on that. even on the fragmenting bullet... it was simply the way that sentence was worded. that's all.

i'm curious as to whether you think Zapruder was altered in any way...

Jon, i agree, that's what i was trying to say earlier, only not nearly so clearly. He probably is worth the effort at separating good info from bad.

Ron - i saw that jacket pic, thought wow looks photoshopped, then blew it off. It may be, but that's a million miles from faking the racially motivated shooting of 9 people in a church. It's worth knowing. maybe. what a leap, tho... wow. It probably became connected because someone on the internet posted it and said look, this might be connected! and a million sheep believed him.

not calling you a sheep.

"We still have solid indications that THREE shots from Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano rifle WERE fired from that very same sixth-floor location in the southeast corner. The THREE spent bullet shells on the floor [CE510] pretty much seal the deal on that point."

really? seal the deal, huh...

oh, and

"I don't think you've thoroughly thought out your last post, Greg."

coming from him...

wow - I'm glad I didn't ask anything complex!!

i wasn't clear > "As I was reading about the many thousands of ways several hundred people have fabricated or altered thousands of Zapruder Films (maybe that's an exaggeration), it dawned on me the choreography necessary to have pulled this off. "

"Pulled this off", meaning the alteration of the Zapruder film, not the body - i think it's pretty obvious that the wounds themselves were altered. Probably had to be on the plane - but i'm just asking your opinion on the control of the Zapruder film.

Mark Twain advised, in the way of successful writing, to "eschew surplusage." Perhaps I should try that...

first off, thank you Pat for making me feel welcome enough to share that with. That is kind of nitty gritty family drama not meant for the public, in Fetzer's interest as well as the rest of the community.

Yep, he seems to have unravelled. My only experience of him really is a few written words and his oral presentation opening Film Hoax, '03. And he comes across as quite lucid and knowledgeable. As I've learned, people are perfectly able to exhibit both genius and absence. His association with Costella made me feel ok, but Jack White made me nervous, too - so when i saw Fetzer's website, wow. golly. I'm still a patriot and i CANNOT allow myself to think that of either 9/11 or Baseball. right?

i'm also watching a video by Josiah, and enjoy his delivery and intellect. He goes a bit far, for me, with the film trickery, but what do i know...? (I'm hoping that's not an opening for DV--- nope, i'm not gonna say it).

I'm glad to hear he's respected in here. It's funny, when traversing this JFK universe, everything you read is mostly opinion - some of it's about JFK, much of it's about other people. It's safe to say if one does not have any enemies, he could become a JFK fanatic and gain plenty.

I know who Morley is, i look forward to finding out what he's all about.

thanks for the info. As I've stated, I may sound like I'm trying to teach at times, but I really am simply learning by expression (does that make sense? sometimes a person has to write/read what he thinks to know if that's really what he thinks...? - I'm not crazy, and I won't share with ya'll what I really think about the 1986 Mets)

Paul T - I'm appreciating some of the helpful, knowledgeable information that you and Vitali are providing in this thread - and it takes some effort keeping it separate from your theory. As I was reading about the many thousands of ways several hundred people have fabricated or altered thousands of Zapruder Films (maybe that's an exaggeration), it dawned on me the choreography necessary to have pulled this off - if in fact it WAS pulled off - beforehand.

Just as a matter of curiosity, if you say that the Cover-Up was completely separate from the Assassination itself, do you or do you not then believe that an alteration of any kind was done?

I'm glad to hear you say this, Vince - I have been kind of liking his approach until I came across his website of acute paranoia and I felt 'cheated', in a way. I want to think a person is credible when his theory sounds quite reasonable and his research is obviously well done, but then he starts talking about this other stuff, and I don't know what to think.

Tells people who are unfamiliar with a person that caution is next to godliness. Or something like that.

[the edit] - maybe i can enjoy his pre-9/11 theories and disregard the post-apocalyptic ones...

He now believes the Charleston shooting never happened and is a false flag just like Sandy Hook. I guess all those grieving families are faking it.

I truly hate this crap- it detracts in a major way from legitimate conspiracy issues. It makes us look like the tin foil hat brigade.

I met Fetzer in person, ironically, on 8/11/01, exactly one month before 9/11- he just showed up unannounced at my place. He was pretty lucid and was all excited about Nigel Turner wanting to film me and so forth.

9/11 ruined Jim- "conspiracies-in-your-soup" syndrome. Actually, 9/11 started to infect everyone's thinking- every major event is now seen as fake, staged, false flags, etc.

Silly...and sad

I'm reading the Boswell ARRB testimony at the moment (literally) and i'm wondering why more attention isn't given to this...

"In the previous one [photograph], it [the scalp flap] was permitted just to drop. In this one, it's pulled forward up over the forehead, toward the forehead."

and i'm sure it's the image we're all used to with the thumb holding this flap in place with the visible bullet hole and a small piece of white something down low on the hairline, which is mentioned in the next couple of questions - not necessarily THIS pictured wound, but at any case this testimony clearly describes 1) an exit hole in the back of his head that resulted in a skin-connected flap that could cover it up, and 2) another photo from the exact same angle in which this flap is allowed to fall and expose the large/exit wound.

how hard is this to understand? (except someone so committed to his own preconceptions that nothing to the contrary can possibly be true...?)

i know you all have read this stuff. it's pretty engrossing. convincing. for most people...

Boswell never claimed there was a blow out on the back of the head, if that's what you're trying to say.

There is much confusion over the doctors' description of a defect (hole and fractured skull) that extended onto the back of the head. Such a wound is confirmed by the x-rays. But there's no record of them ever saying there was hole of bone and scalp on the far back of the head, as depicted in the so-called McClelland drawing.

I'm not saying that he said 'blowout' - just that he said what is transcribed that he said - that in one photograph there's a flap of scalp being held in place and which covers a wound that is not the bullet entrance wound.

Just that the picture, if it's the one that i have in mind (this one or the other one with the small entrance wound visible) looks like what he's described and what I've always thought, that the hand is holding a flap in place that's covering something else, like a different wound. I feel it's this pic because they mention the small "white" thing at the hairline that he says he's wondered (i think he says "worried") about for years, and the Questioner is more than a little curious about it, too. To me it seems quite clear that there was a lot more going on with the back there than is "presented" to us in the photographs.

this is what led me to that story: 2 years ago the Paine, 1026 N. Beckley, right? house was for sale for $500,000.

http://www.housekaboodle.com/lee-harvey-oswald-house-in-dallas-is-500000/

this is what led me to that story: 2 years ago the Paine, 1026 N. Beckley, right? house was for sale for $500,000.

http://www.housekaboodle.com/lee-harvey-oswald-house-in-dallas-is-500000/

the Paines lived in Irving, Genn.

right. i got mixed up - i was thinking of Ruth as his landlord when I saw this house and didn't stop to think of the location.

oops.

I'm reading the Boswell ARRB testimony at the moment (literally) and i'm wondering why more attention isn't given to this...

"In the previous one [photograph], it [the scalp flap] was permitted just to drop. In this one, it's pulled forward up over the forehead, toward the forehead."

and i'm sure it's the image we're all used to with the thumb holding this flap in place with the visible bullet hole and a small piece of white something down low on the hairline, which is mentioned in the next couple of questions - not necessarily THIS pictured wound, but at any case this testimony clearly describes 1) an exit hole in the back of his head that resulted in a skin-connected flap that could cover it up, and 2) another photo from the exact same angle in which this flap is allowed to fall and expose the large/exit wound.

how hard is this to understand? (except someone so committed to his own preconceptions that nothing to the contrary can possibly be true...?)

i know you all have read this stuff. it's pretty engrossing. convincing. for most people...

i was just kidding, Stephen (hence the *wink* ) - I was pretty sure it was "embellished". Really just found it kind of interesting, enjoyable in a "pseudo-fantastical" sort of way...

i didn't have any plans to spend any real time researching it.

oh. my bad. i thought everything i read on the internet had to be true.

you mean this is an ambiguous tale? what with such an official looking website and all...?

ii will surely take ya'lls word for it since you stick to your guns - i defer to your experience happily.

so,... WTF is with this "CTer" Groden? a "reverse" agenda...? is he without outward affirmation and in need of attention at any cost?

he pulls crap like this and he was asked to testify in OJSimpson???

this is what led me to that story: 2 years ago the Paine, 1026 N. Beckley, right? house was for sale for $500,000.

http://www.housekaboodle.com/lee-harvey-oswald-house-in-dallas-is-500000/

http://apleasanthouse.com/2013/05/hysterical-amnesia.html

There’s this strange building in New Orleans- really more a complex of buildings.
I used to live a few blocks away and would walk by and wonder.
So, I started to do a bit of snooping: I jogged right up to the gate and walked in- without a camera.

That was then.
This is now: NO ONE ALLOWED!
I’ve tried everything I know how: walls are too tall to scale, cameras are everywhere, gates are all locked, no one walking close by inside the fence, uniformed security everywhere.
Double
So off to the Internet I go.
Turns out this property has a very weird history.
1831-
This land, owned by Bernard deMarigny, who is credited for bringing a dice game to America from France that would later become known as Craps, is compelled to sell. He bet his wad and lost.
1832-
Now owned by Dominique Francois Burthe, the land is subdivided, and sold off, or leased. One large parcel on the river is leased to Jacques Fortier.
1834-
Mr. Fortier (who is the owner of the famous Plantation that was the place that put-down the, little known but largest slave revolt in US history in 1811) has set-up a brickyard, complete with blast furnace, stock yard, river access, overseer’s home, and plenty of slave hovels because the slave revolt that I mentioned above didn’t go the way the slaves had hoped for.
1851-
Mr. Fortier dies, and his widow gets out of the brick business. The land and buildings are abandoned.
1883-
The United States government buys the large parcel and builds a Marine Hospital. The overseer’s house and blast furnace remain.
1890-
The Marine Hospital is used as a convalescence’s home for Civil War veterans.
1891-
Several ‘cottages’ are built on the parcel to house veterans who will be staying on because they have no legs, are morphine addicts, and keep reliving the Battle of Vicksburg- even in their sleep.
FAST FORWARD
The property and buildings go through several changes of hands resulting in it becoming a Psychiatric facility for mostly young people with “severe mental illness”, of which it remains (now operated by the LSU Health Services Center).
BUT NOT BEFORE
The US government decides to use this place to conduct a few highly classified experiments during the cold war of the 1950/60’s like:
Creating, by accident, a contaminated polio vaccine that was administered to children, and after which, the government thought it would be wise to develop an antidote. I don’t know what happened to those poor kids who got the bad dose so don’t ask.
Was frequented by an obscure, slightly odd, young man named Lee Harvey Oswald, who was dating a researcher named Dr. Mary Sherman.
Was a laboratory that was assigned to research developing biological weapons, using monkeys.
Was the place where the first of a very unusual monkey was shipped, that developed a baffling condition in which the monkey’s ENTIRE immune system shut down. Can you spell A-I-D-S?
In addition, many indigent people worked at the facility over the years and when they died, they were cremated in the blast furnace- so were Dr. Mary and her monkeys.
Sort of.
In 1964, Dr. Mary Sherman was found in her apartment (down the road) having had the police called by a mysterious man, and whereupon, after their arrival, they found she was nearly dead with half of her body simply missing. Like GONE.
Turns out there had been a little accident in the radiation lab.
Who moved her is still unknown, as is her case- it’s still an unsolved MURDER, open on the books here in New Orleans, but don’t worry…

I’m on the case.

wait - and Groden was a "photography expert" in the OJ Simpson trial...???

an odd thing i noticed in the notes is that he states, according to the interviewer, that he remembers no one other than the doctors (and this guy Sid?) and himself. No FBI, no 36 people.

hmm...

i also read a while back of the mysterious activity at Bethesda that night, of the possibility of "TWO" autopsies, and Lipsey mentions the decoy hearse.

i wonder...

Greg - right. I can write AND read. right, i get the friend of a friend thing - that doesn't make it impossible. on its own merits, its a good image.

Pat - i have next to no exposure to Groden, but if that's the kind of material he produces, i'm clearly missing nothing. That's absolutely pathetic. Seriously. And to ME, this "new" photo looks nothing whatsoever like the unprofessional graphics job Groden has produced.

I have been working with graphics professionally for about 12 years; i'm not an expert, but i know when i'm seeing bad work. this new photo is not a cartoon, and it does not look anything like the cheese that it's being compared to. The angle of the head is not replicant to any of the others we've seen, the thumb isn't a reproduction. The lighting looks appropriately unprofessional as do the others. In my eyes, it's a real head wound that happens to resemble descriptions we've all read. Not as likely to be of K's head, but certainly not impossible that it is.

I'm really good with photograph manipulation, and one thing that occurs to me is that if someone were to want to "fake" such a picture with the intent to deceive, there's no need to create one, doctor one, draw one like a cartoon - there are millions of head wounds MUCH more gross than this online. it would be a cinch to find one with similar hair, crop it down close to the ears (the photo, not the hair) and call it an underground autopsy photo. easily done.

which makes Groden's mess all the more curious. hmmm...

It's my opinion that people in forums tend to jump to the "no" almost as fast as they used to jump to the "yes."

regarding the "neck" v "back" semantics; i was just reading the notes from the Lipsey interview and listening to the interview itself, and as it was that he was in no way colluding with WC and telling the uncomfortable truth about what he witnessed at the autopsy, I noticed that he, too, had the tendency to interchange 'neck' and 'back' pretty frequently - especially since he was "testifying" to having seen TWO wounds involving the neck and back.

just an observation.

you'll note that it said "as much as I can" or something to that effect (of course you've omitted that which doesn't suit) AND you'll note NO promise even implied.

Trust me, I ignore 99% of your input. All the emails i get following threads, I first look at the author.

this is why i have no idea, as will most others, if this thread is also on your website.

I'm not sure if all of this stuff at my page below is also in Vince Palamara's thread-starter above or not, but in case it's not, I'll link it here. I've included a 1978 interview with with Lipsey, plus one from Nov. 22, 2013....

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/07/richard-lipsey.html

yeah, I'm not sure if it's on your website either.

"they spent MORE time looking for that other bullet than they did anything else"...

"they were firmly convinced that it did not" exit the body ---