Terry Mauro

Craig, In civilized ODCs, the bankrupting of the working class as a result of the costs of pursuing treatment for accident and illness does not happen, as, despite your denials, it most certainly happens every day in America. In the rest of the world, right wing efforts to preserve and protect the wealthiest and most powerful are not as dominate, and neither are the views of the right so firmly rooted as they are tioday in the alternate universe you and so many of your fellow American, choose to inhabit. You paint a deceptive picture of life in these United States, and even if you are fortunate enough to be insured, the choice is ceded not to the government or to you, but to you insurer, as far as what is billed to it for your care, vs. what it chooses to pay for. If your insurer decides not to pay, your recourse is the insurance department in your individual state, headed by a former insurance industry executive who will most likely return to a position in that industry, after his public "service". Tom what do your comments have to do with Obama pushing for an British modeled, Nazi euthanasia program here in the United States? At least Craig sees and understands the real issue. You seem to be stuck in the 1960's using this leftist jargon and gibberish.

Here's another article Budget Chief Contradicts Obama On Medicare Costs http://www.worth-reading.com/read/463/taxe...medicare-costs/ The head of the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, Douglas Elmendorf, told senators Tuesday that seniors in Medicare's managed care plans would see reduced benefits under a bill in the Finance Committee. The bill would cut payments to the Medicare Advantage plans by more than $100 billion over 10 years. Obama's health care austerity program comes straight from London.

There are furious relatives, friends, family. You just havent opened and read the links I provided. The Tony Chaitkin interview (posted link) discusses a study done by a Dr. Clive Seal (spelling) that estimates the Liverpool Pathway euthanasia program being responsible for one out of every six deaths in Great Britain. Tony also discussed the altering of death certificates. http://www.larouchepac.com/lpactv?nid=11764 http://www.larouchepac.com/lpactv?nid=11864

Keep repeating that big lie Craig - it is a tried and trusted propagandistic method - thus far you have T Mauro (intellectual of this parish) onside but I am sure that there is still hope Health spending as a share of GDP US 16% UK 8.4% Public spending on healthcare (% of total spending on healthcare) US 45% UK 82% Health spending per head US $7,290 UK $2,992 Practising physicians (per 1,000 people) US 2.4 UK 2.5 Nurses (per 1,000 people) US 10.6 UK 10.0 Acute care hospital beds (per 1,000 people) US 2.7 UK 2.6 Life expectancy: US 78 UK 80 Infant mortality (per 1,000 live births) US 6.7 UK 4.8 Source: WHO/OECD Health Data 2009 You're not getting good value there Craig! How can you throw out these statistics without the acknowledgement that the US Healthcare system has undergone almost 30 years of looting under "managed care"? Brit, Simon Stevens of United Healthcare is one of the biggest thieves, stealing billions. Prior to his current role, Stevens served as chief executive officer of UnitedHealth Group's seniors' business, Ovations, the nation's largest and most diversified Medicare health plan serving one-in-five Medicare beneficiaries nationwide. Stevens' executive experience in health care spans twenty years of service, in hospitals, primary care and as a payer, in the private and public sectors, both in the U.S. and internationally where he served as British Prime Minister Tony Blair's health policy director at 10 Downing Street. Here he is helping us indentify $500 billion in savings This is the guy writing the Obama nazi healthcare policy. He wants a piece of that 16% of US GDP. He'd also like to help destroy the United States for the "Empire". http://www.uhc.com/news_room/2009_news_rel...ost_savings.htm

Andy believes himself to be some kind of refined intellectual and yet he couldnt locate the truth if he was given a road map. If you wish to learn about healthcare in the US - this video is a must see-.

Mr Lamson, in this matter, and many others, you wouldn't know a fact if it sat up and bit you on the arse. Instead of insults why don't you read the article? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-...rn-experts.html Prof Millard said yesterday: 'We're moving to a situation where we are discussing economic factors around older people's care. 'We're not discussing how we care for old people; we're just discussing how we pay for them.' He added: 'The Government is rolling out palliative care - which is helping people die happy. What we should be doing is rolling out support to help them to live. 'It's possible that what is going on could be seen as backdoor euthanasia.' The experts point to figures showing that 16.5 per cent of all deaths last year came after continuous sedation, in which patients are given sedative drugs 24 hours a day. The care pathway was originally developed for use in a Liverpool hospice, but since it was backed by the drugs rationing watchdog NICE in 2004, it has spread 'The Government is rolling out a new treatment pattern of palliative care into hospitals, nursing and residential homes. It is based on experience in a Liverpool hospice.'

Terry you clearly know nothing and will learn nothing about the NHS from your weird cult. Instead try this link http://www.kented.org.uk/ngfl/subjects/his...39_achieve.html Weird cult? Here's the all time weird cult http://www.britishroyalwedding.com/wp-cont...11/royals-2.jpg

John and Andy keep insisting that I am wrong. Their own media has been reporting on this euthanasia. This is involuntary "euthanasia". "Under the Liverpool Care Pathway, doctors can withdraw fluids and drugs from patients if they are deemed close to death. Many are then put on continuous sedation so they die free of pain." http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.dai...2GYO2qOUOMGfjYA

John doesnt know what he is talking about. Listen to what Anton Chaitkin has to say on this British euthanasia program. Anton Chaitkin is a member of this forum as well as the author of "Treason in America" and the "Unauthorized Biography of George Bush. http://www.larouchepac.com/lpactv?nid=11764

Simon Stevens and the Mobile Death Squads Sept. 17, 2009 (LPAC)--Royal Family courtier Simon Stevens was Britain's "Death Minister," simultaneously advising P.M. Blair and successive Health Ministers from 1997 to 2004. In 1999, he established N.I.C.E to ration health care. In 2000, he crafted the Plan for creeping privatization of the National Health Service. In 2002, as fascist financiers claimed that the elderly were "clogging the beds," Stevens arranged a National Health Service contract with UnitedHealth company's Evercare Hospice unit, to conduct pilot studies on how to restrict hospital access for older patients. Based on the mind-set in the Evercare contract and Evercare's pilot-project report, Stevens then put into effect the Liverpool Care Pathway experimental program of killing the frail elderly. In 2004, Stevens officially left the Blair government, to become chief executive of UnitedHealth company's European division. Stevens remained a Blair confidante, seen frequently huddling with the Prime Minister at 10 Downing Street. In 2007, Stevens moved to the U.S.A. to become chief executive of the elderly ("Ovations") division of UnitedHealth, where he personally oversees the Evercare Hospice unit. Blair resigned as Prime Minister and began working directly with Wall Street on managing Change in America. And Prince Charles' "King's Fund" agency, with the Atlantic-hopping Stevens as strategist and trustee, made Stevens' Liverpool killing experiment the general program of the National Health Service, snuffing out one in six of all Britons who die. Minneapolis-based UnitedHealth was founded in 1974 as an outgrowth of the 1971 corrupt deal with Richard Nixon to establish Managed Care Organizations (HMOs). Mergers and acquisitions built it up, but by 1987, the company (like the speculation-driven national economy) was virtually bankrupt. That year Warburg-Pincus bought a 40% share of UnitedHealth and took control. The investment bank's 87-year-old founder, Eric Warburg, was Max Warburg's son. Eric had stayed in Nazi Germany until 1938 as his father's junior partner, while Max served as advisor to Hjalmar Schacht in the build-up of the Nazi war machine, and Max was the leading stockholder of I.G. Farben. The Warburg family bank in New York, Kuhn Loeb, had been the American partner agency for Sir Ernst Cassell, personal financier of King Edward VIII and the Fabian Society and the Round Table. Under Eric's cousins, Kuhn Loeb refinanced Hitler's bonds and ran their American Jewish Committee to counter Jewish anti-Hitler political activity. After WWII, Eric was instrumental in the British/McCloy/Dulles integration of Nazi intelligence resources into Western agencies. In 1987, Eric's Wall Street firm worked up a new initiative for their UnitedHealth: {Evercare}, as the means to subject old age homes to the HMO parasites. The idea was not to own hospice buildings, but to make nurse-practitioners and social workers (and perhaps clergymen) into a mobile hospice -- visiting elderly patients in their homes or retirement facilities and managing (or bringing about) their last days. UnitedHealth company and its allies in the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation meanwhile put millions of dollars into the spurious Jack Wennberg/Dartmouth Atlas propaganda (the RWJ executive on top of the Wennberg project, Lewis G. Sandy, is now UnitedHealth Senior Vice President for Clinical Advancement). This is the operation which Britain's "Death Minister" Simon Stevens took over in 2007, when he established a home in Minnesota. Simon Stevens' photograph is displayed on the Web site of the American Association of Retired Persons. The 40 million elderly members are advised to buy AARP-endorsed insurance -- from Evercare. In fact, UnitedHealth has simply bought AARP for this purpose, paying for this promotion. During the Spring of 2009, Stevens was all over the American media, beating the drums for Reform. Quoting the phony Wennberg statistics, Stevens demanded $540 billion be cut from payments for medical services to the elderly and poor. Working with the Soros apparatus of SEIU's Dennis Rivera, Stevens is now a central player of the London-Wall Street axis that is driving Obama's health care reform. Business Week (August 17) gloating under the headline "Why Health Insurers are Winning," featured a full-page photo of Simon Stevens overshadowing the U.S. Capitol Building. So the question for AARP members is, when the "insurance" you pay for sends a minister, is it the Minister of Death?

Did you actually read this quote? What do you think Newsweek means by the following: "But no one wants the horror stories of denied care and long waits that are said to plague state-run national health-care systems. (The criticism is unfair: patients wait longer to see primary-care physicians in the United States than in Britain.)" John, Did you listen to the interview of Tony Chaitkin posted on this site? If you had you might not need to ask these questions. In the meantime perhaps you can answer why Simon Stevens who worked with Tony Blair to set up a national task force in order to get the NHS euthanasia program going in England, is working with the Obama administration to export the same kind of Liverpool Pathway Careplan into the United States? Steven's is a Trustee of the King's Fund. Here is his bio, boasting that he is involved with US healthcare reform. Meaning he wants a euthanasia policy in the United States! http://www.kingsfund.org.uk/who_we_are/who...on_stevens.html Simon Stevens is President of Global Health at UnitedHealth Group, which operates in 45 countries and manages the health care of over 70 million people. He is also chairman of the UnitedHealth Center for Health Reform which promotes health care modernisation, including efforts to reform the US health system. Simon is a trustee of The King's Fund, a columnist for the Health Service Journal, and on the board of a number of international non-profit organisations. He has also been visiting professor of health policy at the LSE. He was previously the Prime Minister's Health Advisor at 10 Downing Street, and at the Department of Health, having joined the NHS twenty years ago as an NHS manager working in teaching hospitals, primary care, commissioning and mental health.

The cat is finally out of the bag. The euthanasia policy of Britains Liverpool Care Pathway is exactly the policy being pushed by President Obama and his "behaviorist advisers". Newsweek The case for Killing Granny. As President Obama said, most of the uncontrolled growth in federal spending and the deficit comes from Medicare; nothing else comes close. Almost a third of the money spent by Medicare—about $66.8 billion a year—goes to chronically ill patients in the last two years of life. This might seem obvious—of course the costs come at the end, when patients are the sickest. But that can't explain what researchers at Dartmouth have discovered: Medicare spends twice as much on similar patients in some parts of the country as in others. The average cost of a Medicare patient in Miami is $16,351; the average in Honolulu is $5,311. In the Bronx, N.Y., it's $12,543. In Fargo, N.D., $5,738. The average Medicare patient undergoing end-of-life treatment spends 21.9 days in a Manhattan hospital. In Mason City, Iowa, he or she spends only 6.1 days. Or But how do you decide which treatments to cut out? How do you choose between the necessary and the unnecessary? There has been talk among experts and lawmakers of giving more power to a panel of government experts to decide—Britain has one, called the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (known by the somewhat ironic acronym NICE). But no one wants the horror stories of denied care and long waits that are said to plague state-run national health-care systems. (The criticism is unfair: patients wait longer to see primary-care physicians in the United States than in Britain.) After the summer of angry town halls, no politician is going to get anywhere near something that could be called a "death panel." http://www.newsweek.com/id/215291?GT1=43002

What exactly are you arguing? It gets ridiculous and painful reading your drivel. You're insinuating that I believe everything said/written by Lyndon LaRouche. That's painfully clear and it comes through with your many "guru" remarks. Who do you think you're kidding? OK then tell us some thing that he said or wrote that you disagree with. The way you repeatedly post his and his disciples writing is indicative of a devotee. About 40% of your posts over the last year have contained the keywords larouche, steinberg, tarpley or chaitkin Uuuh, I’m typing not talking. Obviously you were implied there was something untoward about my “drug” use. The accuracy of my memories was confirmed but irrelevant because I was able to document that he claimed the queen was the head of a drug dealing gang, you of course refuse to acknowledge this because your worship bubble couldn’t deal with it. Wrong again I cite five his pronouncements and despite your rationalization in that particular case he resorted to using the stereotype of black men as predators. He didn’t “expose” anything because he didn’t provide any evidence, but of course for devotees like you that wasn’t necessary. Two forum members agreed that the comments were racist none disagreed. http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...st&p=155903 Once again we find you are a fool who can’t even get her facts straight. The medical school which carried out the sterilization (not euthanasia) program was funded by (and named after) Bowman Gray Sr. who died in 1935 decades before my dad was hired by RJR. The genetics program there was only established in 1941 after Gray’s death and they did most of their work before my dad started working for Reynolds. http://books.google.com/books?id=oQTmb8DBv...ock&f=false http://extras.journalnow.com/againsttheirw...rintstory1.html I pointed out that here you were telling your little story that the LaRouchies were standing on a local street corner screaming "The Queen deals drugs", and you failed to mention that you were a 15 year old customer. You don't find humor in that? And here is your winning argument- "I cited five his pronouncements, (????), he exposed nothing because he didnt provide any evidence, and two forum members agreed that the comments were racist". This passes for thinking? Apparently you didnt follow the story very close. Below is a summary of NCLC fight to expose Lincoln as a brainwashing operation (which is exactly the point I took away from reading the phamplet). QUOTE: After CFC officially joined the NCLC, the latter began to use the West 91st Street building for events, forums, meetings, and training. A sample of what it was up to during the summer of 1974 can be gleaned from a leaflet headlined "ZOMBIE KILLERS OUT OF CONTROL" which attacked the Lincoln Hospital Detox Center as a brainwashing center and headquarters of the Black Liberation Army. It warned: "This summer you will be walking down the street with your family and a cruising car will pull up beside you. A group of young black men will jump out of the car and surround you. "As they claw in on you, you may notice that their eyes show no emotion, their pupils are pinpoints. Your throat will be slashed, your wife will be stabbed, your children's heads will be smashed against the pavement. The attackers will be grinning or laughing http://www.ex-iwp.org/fn008.php In 1973-74, a physician in NCLC was employed at Lincoln Hospital in the Bronx, and was able to use his position to gather information about links between the Lincoln Detox program (a now-defunct drug rehabilitation outfit) and Black and Puerto Rican nationalist groups. According to a former official of the program, "Some of NCLC's information on the early period of Lincoln Detox's history was very accurate. I've often wondered how they got it." Later NYC Mayor would shut down Lincoln Detox. I wonder who drew attention to this operation, care to venture a guess Len? You cannot get anything right, you simply don't know how. But to city officials, the presence of these radicals only aggravated an already offensive situation. In November 1978 New York Assemblyman Charles Schumer bitterly complained to the New York Times that “Lincoln Detox has compiled a well-documented record of millions of dollars in unsubstantiated payroll costs, over billing for patient care and other egregious management failures.” Mayor Ed Koch subsequently evicted the Lincoln Detox program from Lincoln Hospital, stripped away its autonomy by placing it under hospital management, and had its Shakur-aligned staffers reassigned. Koch later explained that Shakur and his followers “ran it like Che Guevara was their patron saint, with his pictures all over the wall. It wasn't a hospital; it was a radical cell.” Now you have two forum members and I have Charles Schumer and Ed Koch. Lastly you provide the date of Bowman Gray's death and somehow believe this will relieve you of your dilemma. It's meaningless. RJR goes all the way back to the Hanes family, who had been British assets since the Civil War. In the early 1900's the Hanes merged their tobacco operation with the Reynolds and Gray families to create "British/American Tobacco". How would the death of a single family member Bowman Gray Sr. have any significant impact on what RJR represented? And any money Gray dedicated to his sterilization program would come from his tobacco empire (RJR). QUOTE: We quote now from the official story of the project: "In Winston-Salem and in [nearby] Orange County, North Carolina, the [sterilization League's] field committee had participated in testing projects to identify school age children who should be considered for sterilization. The project in Orange County was conducted by the University of North Carolina and wasfinanced by a 'Mr. Hanes,' a friend of Clarence Gamble and supporter of the field work project in North Carolina. The Winston-Salem project was also financed by Hanes. ["Hanes" was underwear mogul James Gordon Hanes, a trustee of Bowman Gray Medical School and treasurer of Alice Gray's group].... "The medical school had a long history of interest in eugenics and had compiled extensive histories of families carrying inheritable disease. In 1946, Dr. C. Nash Herndon ... made a statement to the press on the use of sterilization to prevent the spread of inheritable diseases.... "The first step after giving the mental tests to grade school children was to interpret and make public the results. In Orange County the results indicated that three percent of the school age children were either insane or feebleminded.... [Then] the field committee hired a social worker to review each case ... and to present any cases in which sterilization was indicated to the State Eugenics Board, which under North Carolina law had the authority to order sterilization...." Race science experimenter Dr. Claude Nash Herndon provided more details in an interview in 1990: Note #3 Note #8 "Alice Gray was the general supervisor of the project. She and Hanes sent out letters promoting the program to the commissioners of all 100 counties in North Carolina.... What did I do? Nothing besides riding herd on the whole thing! The social workers operated out of my office. I was at the time also director of outpatient services at North Carolina Baptist Hospital. We would see the [targeted] parents and children there.... I.Q. tests were run on all the children in the Winston-Salem public school system. Only the ones who scored really low [were targeted for sterilization], the real bottom of the barrel, like below 70. "Did we do sterilizations on young children? Yes. This was a relatively minor operation.... It was usually not until the child was eight or ten years old. For the boys, you just make an incision and tie the tube.... We more often performed the operation on girls than with boys. Of course, you have to cut open the abdomen, but again, it is relatively minor." Dr. Herndon remarked coolly that "we had a very good relationship with the press" for the project. This is not surprising, since Gordon Gray owned the "Winston-Salem Journal," the "Twin City Sentinel," and radio station WSJS. In 1950 and 1951, John Foster Dulles, then chairman of the Rockefeller Foundation, led John D. Rockefeller III on a series of world tours, focusing on the need to stop the expansion of the non-white populations. In November 1952, Dulles and Rockefeller set up the Population Council, with tens of millions of dollars from the Rockefeller family. At that point, the American Eugenics Society, still cautious from the recent bad publicity vis-a-vis Hitler, left its old headquarters at Yale University. The Society moved its headquarters into the office of the Population Council, and the two groups melded together. The long-time secretary of the Eugenics Society, Frederick Osborne, became the first president of the Population Council. The Gray family's child-sterilizer, Dr. C. Nash Herndon, became president of the American Eugenics Society in 1953, as its work expanded under Rockefeller patronage. Before working for this group of Nazi crazies your old man was a chemist in the employ of "Comercial Solvents" which was sort of a British version of IG Farben, with it's own strange history, located in the United States. What a strange career for a man who claims to have hated the Nazi regime.

Your replies to me often remind me of the ‘slow’ 7th graders I tutored in math and reading when in college. I never ‘asserted’ that you said this. In response to being asked for evidence NHS policy killed patients you posted an article from your messiah’s website that said this was so but provided no evidence (post #35), hence my comment: You should realize that no one here but you accepts the 'LaRouche says so, therefore it's so' standard of proof. He says "the program which murders 1 in 6 of the Britons who die, imposed by the National Health Service's NICE agency" but offers no evidence in support of this claim. I think even my 7th graders would have grokked that I wasn’t ‘asserting’ that you “ever make the claim that members of this forum (or anyone else for that matter) believed "something" because Lyndon LaRouche "said so".” Perhaps he cares but I doubt he would accept something as fact just because one of your guru’s disciples said so and two (or three) other members of this forum agreeing with some of what he says does legitimize him. If you do a search you’ll see that even among the CT’s here opinions are more negative than positive. In order for me to invest the time it would take to read such a book I would have to trust the authors to cite their sources accurately; I don’t have such confidence in LaRouche and his devotees, they have been caught out lying too many times OMG – You caught me out I’m a crazed drug fiend, I smoke/smoked pot, therefore nothing I say is of any merit. Odd that someone who is a fan of infamous coke hounds like Tom Petty and Joe Walsh is so puritanical about pot. How do you reconcile being fans of theirs in light of you stated opinions regarding the evils of drugs and the rock culture? On the other hand I’m flattered that you so clearly remembered something I wrote almost 4 years ago (it was in 2005 not 4). But let’s go back to issue that touched this off: your furhrer saying the queen was a drug dealer then lying about it, how do you rationalize that? We are going off on all sorts of tangents. Why don’t we go back to the topic of this thread? What evidence do you have that NHS policies kill patients? As I stated pages back simply citing the unsupported claims of your messiah and his followers doesn’t count. EDIT: Formatting What exactly are you arguing? It gets ridiculous and painful reading your drivel. You're insinuating that I believe everything said/written by Lyndon LaRouche. That's painfully clear and it comes through with your many "guru" remarks. Who do you think you're kidding? Furthermore every time you open that clap trap of yours you stick your foot in it. Here you are telling the forum members that you remember the LaRouchies on the streets of NYC pushing the simplistic line "The Queen deals drugs". When I remind you that during that time you were a teenage drug user you laugh it off and pretend I said something other than I said. <removed by moderator (Burton)> Recall when you tried to paint LaRouche a racist. You used as your argument LaRouche's exposure of a medical/pysch hospital in NYC that was turning out "zombies" within the African American NYC community. That was your entire argument! As justice would have it we later find out that your father was a high ranking executive with RJR which had funded and created a hospital in Winston Salem NC dedicated to "euthanizing"and "sterilizing" local black citizens ! <removed by moderator (Burton)> Yes, you're a fraud. And why you consider yourself intelligent is a mystery to me. Have you had a GG Allin "hotdog" lately? How foul.

Forum member Anton Chaitkin discusses the current health care crisis and who is behind the Obama nazi healthcare rationing policy. http://asx.ljcentral.net/wms/eir/tls/2009/...90912_en_hi.asx

Funny, since you grew up in Brooklyn I assumed that English was your first language but that doesn’t seem to be the case. I’ll try to make that simpler for you, apparently no other member of this forum will believe something just because your messiah says it’s true. That includes Caddy who said he does always agree with him. I skimmed through it but you are suggesting a logical fallacy, just because he didn’t say she drug dealer in that book doesn’t mean he didn’t say so elsewhere. He said it more than once, admitted to saying it under oath and then lied about it and as your latest post demonstrates still claims she is the head of an evil enterprise. But as with the vast majority of claims made by your guru and his disciples little if any supporting evidence is provided. A report is mentioned but were are not told its title only the author's name thus making it difficult to locate. Of course no where did I ever make the claim that members of this forum (or anyone else for that matter) believed "something" because Lyndon LaRouche "said so". That's simply your false assertion. On the other hand Douglas Caddy also made the statement that he has been reading the writings of Lyndon LaRouche for over 30 years. This would suggest that he "cares" what LaRouche has to say. And you skimmed through Dope Inc. Bravo! You might try a serious read for a change instead of looking for the phrase "drug dealer". And I laughed when I read this: "I distinctly remember LaRocoucedroids passing out pamphlets accusing the queen of dope peddling at the stop where I caught the bus to school. But that was almost 30 years ago and I’m not sure what I had for lunch yesterday so fortunately after minimal research I was able to find evidence in support of my memories." And yet around 2004 on this same forum you offered up a first person account of your whereabouts on the night John Lennon was killed in NYC on December 8, 1980 (around the very same time you claim to have seen LaRouche organizers telling people "the Queen deals drugs"). If I am not mistaken I believe you told the forum members that you were 15 years old at the time of Lennon's death and that you were "smoking a joint" and drinking a "beer" before riding home on your bicycle! Here you are a 15 year old customer of the drug trade. Now if that isnt precious irony then there is no such thing. Yes, LaRouche and his political movement simply has no idea of what they are talking about. We should leave the truth to you and the Murder Junkies. Oh, and before I forget, where did you ever get the idea of Brooklyn? It was the Bronx, just to set the record straight. And, all the more fuel for you to hurl at me, in the form of condescending insinuations, I'm sure.

Funny, since you grew up in Brooklyn I assumed that English was your first language but that doesn’t seem to be the case. I’ll try to make that simpler for you, apparently no other member of this forum will believe something just because your messiah says it’s true. That includes Caddy who said he does always agree with him. I skimmed through it but you are suggesting a logical fallacy, just because he didn’t say she drug dealer in that book doesn’t mean he didn’t say so elsewhere. He said it more than once, admitted to saying it under oath and then lied about it and as your latest post demonstrates still claims she is the head of an evil enterprise. But as with the vast majority of claims made by your guru and his disciples little if any supporting evidence is provided. A report is mentioned but were are not told its title only the author's name thus making it difficult to locate. Of course no where did I ever make the claim that members of this forum (or anyone else for that matter) believed "something" because Lyndon LaRouche "said so". That's simply your false assertion. On the other hand Douglas Caddy also made the statement that he has been reading the writings of Lyndon LaRouche for over 30 years. This would suggest that he "cares" what LaRouche has to say. And you skimmed through Dope Inc. Bravo! You might try a serious read for a change instead of looking for the phrase "drug dealer". And I laughed when I read this: "I distinctly remember LaRocoucedroids passing out pamphlets accusing the queen of dope peddling at the stop where I caught the bus to school. But that was almost 30 years ago and I’m not sure what I had for lunch yesterday so fortunately after minimal research I was able to find evidence in support of my memories." And yet around 2004 on this same forum you offered up a first person account of your whereabouts on the night John Lennon was killed in NYC on December 8, 1980 (around the very same time you claim to have seen LaRouche organizers telling people "the Queen deals drugs"). If I am not mistaken I believe you told the forum members that you were 15 years old at the time of Lennon's death and that you were "smoking a joint" and drinking a "beer" before riding home on your bicycle! Here you are a 15 year old customer of the drug trade. Now if that isnt precious irony then there is no such thing. Yes, LaRouche and his political movement simply has no idea of what they are talking about. We should leave the truth to you and the Murder Junkies.

By Anton Chaitkin http://www.larouchepac.com/print/11722 The British Monarchy Caught in a Death Scheme September 10, 2009 (LPAC)—The Royal Family and panicky City of London financiers began implementing, in 2008, a new program to kill elderly and other sick people, precisely repeating the opening phase of Hitler's 1939 T-4 euthanasia program. Under the Liverpool Care Pathway adopted for general use by the National Health Service, those showing symptoms that might foreshadow death are targeted to be killed by heavy narcotics and the withdrawal of fluids and nutrition. The new policy reportedly accounted for about one sixth of all deaths in Britain last year, according to a study by Dr. Clive Seale, of the prestigious Barts and the London School of Medicine and Dentistry. When the world financial system meltdown began in 2007, British imperial leaders pursued drastic shifts in funds away from public services and into bailouts of the London-Wall Street axis. They rushed into general practice an all-out euthanasia policy, that had been introduced as a pilot project in 2003-2004 by then-Prime Minister Tony Blair and royal health adviser Simon Stevens. This British fascist "health-care reform" agenda was at the same time exported to the United States for adoption by the incoming Obama Administration. The King's Fund is the official agency driving the new euthanasia. A government-funded charity, called alternatively Marie Curie Cancer Care or Marie Curie Hospice, is the operations center tasked with shaping the killing program. Prince Charles has been president of the King's Fund since 1986, and president of the Marie Curie Hospice organization since about 2000. What is today called the King's Fund was created in the late 19th Century by the Prince of Wales. After he became King Edward VII, the agency was incorporated in 1907 as King Edward's Hospital Fund for London. This was the Royal Family's planning center for the reform of health care, in accord with the Empire's innovation of the time, eugenics or race-purification theory. To start up the new killing program in 2008, the Queen became the Patron, the agency was re-incorporated under the shorter name, King's Fund, and Prince Charles and his retainers went into overdrive. The King's Fund and the Marie Curie Hospice were merged for action with the June 24, 2008 announcement that King's Fund Policy and Development Director Steve Dewar would simultaneously lead the two agencies, to "develop the contribution of both organizations to the further improvement of end-of-life services across the U.K." In July 2008, the National Health Service published its End of Life Care Strategy, developed by an NHS Strategy unit set up for the new euthanasia program. The Marie Curie Palliative Care Institute in Liverpool is one of two centers for experimental killing regimes. Out of this has come the procedure called the Liverpool Care Pathway, with its Continuous Deep Sedation, which has recently broken into the headlines in Britain due to a public protest against the murders by physicians. Marie Curie Chief Executive Tom Hughes-Hallett, a King's Fund Senior Associate, chairs the "external Implementation Advisory Board" for the national End of Life Care Strategy. In his forward to the killers' first annual report, published by the National Service in July, 2009, Hughes-Hallett wrote, "We're trying to change the way this country thinks about and responds to the idea of death. We're trying to change the way the medical and social care professions think about and respond to death. We're trying to change the way end of life care services are commissioned." Being a City of London financier (with J. Henry Schroeder, and then chairman of Robert Fleming Securities), Hughes-Hallett wrote further on the urgency of getting the killing program going full blast, now: "One thing that has changed quickly, and unexpectedly, is the financial climate. For this financial year and the next, the NHS has new money for this strategy. After that things are much less certain...." In that national Strategy Report, the "end of life care pathway" starts with "Step One: Identifying people who are approaching the end of life"; it proceeds to "Step Five: Last days of life," in which the Liverpool Care Pathway is the means of termination. After this comes "Step Six: Care after death," or what to do with the bodies and the survivors, and proposed methods for falsifying death certificates to show a natural cause rather than homicide — precisely as was done in the Hitler T-4 program. A National Health Service-commissioned report by McKinsey and Company, calling for saving $32 billon per year by drastic cuts in health care, was leaked to the press last week. King's Fund chief economist John Appleby (quoted in Time magazine, Sept. 9, 2009) responded that these savings must be accomplished by finding "ways to counter rising health-care costs associated with an aging population, expensive new medical treatments and rising patient expectations." King's Fund chief executive Niall Dickson chimed in that, rather than doing more with less resources, "Doing less with less seems a more realistic scenario." The Royal euthanasia program was introduced as a pilot project in 2003 and 2004 by Simon Stevens, Blair's chief adviser on health policy from 2001 to 2004. In 2007, Stevens went to the United States to spread the euthanasia project there. Stevens became vice president of Minnesota-based UnitedHealth, the massive private health insurance company for the U.S. and Britain. Stevens' official job is to advise all private health insurers to get behind the new agenda for health-care reform. Continuing as a trustee of the King's Fund for Prince Charles in London, Simon Stevens connects President Obama with the London-Wall Street axis, for implementation of the urgent strategy in the face of financial catastrophe

So now it's me and Douglas Caddy, where as before it was "no one". See, you never tell the truth. Like father like son. No other member of this forum is as insistent in broadcasting their stupidity and ignorance to the world as you are. You respond to only one part of a lengthy post because you have no reply for the rest. Even then you have to distort what I said to make it untrue. What I’ve said from the beginning is that only you blindly accept your fuhrer’s statements. Even in his post where he indicated his respect for LaRouche Caddy said “I do not always find myself in agreement with what LaRouche advocates” so my statement still stands. Since you’ve broached the subject of people who don’t tell the truth, you said it wasn’t true that your guru accused Queen Elizabeth of being a drug dealer, you said this and other accusations were “idiotic slanders” and “worn out gossip” and cite an article by one of your messiah’s disciples saying this was a “bit of black propaganda”. But as I demonstrated he said this a few times including at least once on TV and admitted to having said it in court. This didn’t stop him from lying about it a few years later. You wrote: You should realize that no one here but you accepts the 'LaRouche says so, therefore it's so' standard of proof. As far as responding to your standard "wall paper" job, let me remind you that I have posted the link to LaRouche's 1978 book Dope, Inc. Try reading it.

Once again you get your facts wrong, he was responding to you not me. I hadn’t said anything along the lines of "no one here accepts LaRouche's say so" in that thread* nor have I ever used that phrase despite you use of double quotes. Caddy is probably the member here other than you who expressed the strongest support for your messiah but in the same post even he said “I do not always find myself in agreement with what LaRouche advocates” so it seems you are the only person here who blindly accepts what ever he says. http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.ph...st&p=167424 And speaking of his pronouncements weren’t you going on about how it was a dirty lie that “The Sedge” ever said the Queen was dope dealer but it turns out he called her “the head of a gang that is pushing drugs” on TV (see below), said the same thing in a booklet and admitted calling her a dealer under oath then lied about it on his website a few years later. "LaROUCHE: Of course she's pushing drugs...that is in the sense of a responsibility: the head of a gang that is pushing drugs; she knows it is happening and she isn't stopping it.” 3:46 into this video “The British are far more evil than Adolf Hitler” 4:28 in “More of LaDouche's wit and wisdom The purpose of this operation is twofold: one, is that the ideologues behind this, think of setting up an Anglo-American world power run by a gang of five countries. The five countries are: first, the United Kingdom; then Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the United States. And this is the same structure of organization that was set up during World War II, as an intelligence organization, both private and public, which was run by what was then called the British-American-Canadian (BAC) operation. Now, four of the countries are officially run, from the top down, by the Queen of England, personally. That is, the Queen is not only a figurehead, but she is the absolute, authoritative, functional head of state for these countries. In other words, she personally runs the military and intelligence services of these countries. The group in New York which is part of this is largely Wall Street. And if you look at the number of people who have received knighthoods from the Queen--like George Bush, Caspar Weinberger, Henry Kissinger, and so forth--they appear to think that they are actually subjects of the Queen of England. Now, what they are up to, is two things: In the Americas, they intend to liquidate the sovereignty of every nation-state as rapidly as possible. They may moderate in some sense, but only for tactical reasons, not their intentions. They plan to seize all material assets. For example, it's become plain that they intend to steal the Pemex oil industry of Mexico. Secondly, they intend to destroy the sovereignty of every nation in every other part of the world as well, to set up a modern kind of Roman world empire. They are also planning a war against Russia and China, in Central Asia. Poland is considered one of the border countries to prepare for the war against Russia. [...] To understand this more clearly, look directly at a comparison between the election now ongoing in Zimbabwe, and the mobilization to destroy targets--Peru, Brazil, and Mexico--in the Western Hemisphere. And there you see the role of poor, silly old Jimmy Carter in all of these operations. Jimmy Carter is a mean fellow, but I don't think he's very intelligent. At least, he's never shown any real intelligence. He is only a side-show act, a diversionary act. If you look closely, as I do, at the similarity in the operation against Peru and against Zimbabwe, you see the mind behind the "Gang of Five," that is, the five countries I referred to.” Lyndon Larouche, June 27,2000 http://larouchepub.com/lar/2000/2727_gente_interview.html Odd 9+ years later and: – there has yet to be an Anglo-American war against China or Russia in Central Asia, Poland or elsewhere, -Although there was/is a war in central Asia it took place in natural resourceless Afghanistan rather than its valuable neighbors and was not against China or Russia. In fact Russsia has coperated with the US and it allies there. http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...toryId=92427328 – no one destroyed “-Peru, Brazil, [or] Mexico”, – Pemex is still independent, – no country in the Americas has lost its sovereignty to contrary with the exceptions of Panama, Honduras, Mexico, Colombia and Venezeula (where Chavez was already president) every mainland Latin American country currently has presidents to the left of those in power in 2000, In Nicaragua, El Salvador, Bolivia, Peru Argentina and Ecuador governments hostile to the US came into power. And or course to even the casual observer the UK (at least under Blair) was the US’s poodle rather than the other way round and only an idiot or a lunatic would believe US is less influential than New Zeeland. So now it's me and Douglas Caddy, where as before it was "no one". See, you never tell the truth. Like father like son.

Like father like son. You should stick to parroting your “master” when you chirp in your own thoughts you come across as bird brained. Your dumb adhom was obviously the response of someone otherwise unable to reply. You should also stick to the Deep Phertalizer Forum it’s more at your level. "Unable to respond"? I'd say I hit the mark. Not being able to refute my points you resorted to an irrelevant ad hom, as I said stick to what you do best, mindlessly repeating the pronouncements of your guru. You should realize that no one here but you accepts the 'LaRouche says so, therefore it's so' standard of proof. He says "the program which murders 1 in 6 of the Britons who die, imposed by the National Health Service's NICE agency" but offers no evidence in support of this claim. Wrong as usual. I pointed out that you were exactly like your father. This was the guy who could not find a shred of "evidence" linking his employers products to an increase in the death rates of their customers. Now like your father (who was likely a more sophisticated and practiced sophist) you pee around the bush asking for names and address of those patients killed as a result of the rationing policy imposed by NICE. If it's true you and the others who make such claims should be able to provide evidence that it is so, so far you have failed to do so. If it were true there should be lots of furious next of kin but I´ve not seen any cited I doubt anyone here will fall for your blatant mischaracterization of what I said. Caddy's views of LaRouche a mixed, he also likes a fundamentalist Christian nut who believes people should be stoned to death for breaking any of the 10 commandments. You are as far as I can tell your guru's only groupie here most people seem to think he's a nut or disinfo a few like Caddy think he is right sometimes and wrong on others. The last time you screamed "no one here accepts LaRouche's say so" Douglas Caddy chimed in "LaRouche is a dangerous man because he makes you think".

The future is truly bleak if young people must rely on you for their education. They will surely end up not knowing how to think. The difference Mr Tribe is that Frank Colby is on record stating that he could find "no evidence" linking cigarette smoking to health problems , and/or the increase in the mortality rates of smokers. These are his words as unbelievable as that may seem. Therefore my assertion was not "unfounded". The words came straight from the horses mouth, or maybe, it came from the other end of the horse.

If my comments are as you describe they are libels not slanders. However I see nothing in your links or in the wacky world you seem to inhabit to suggest my comments are not held by the likes of larouche and webster tarply and other assorted nutcases there gathered. Your cult clearly holds the few that the world is run by murderous criminal financiers headed by the British establishment or is that libel too? - Let’s call it 'slibel' shall we as you clearly do not understand the difference. Your views on health care?? You think it is 'Nazi' for the state to provide it - surprised you forgot that given its complexity 'old girl??????????' "Your cult clearly holds the "view"? I don't know what you're rambling about old girl? Anyone wanting to know LaRouche's view should have little trouble accessing his speeches, writings, etc. Lord I provided you an on line version of Dope Inc. And no I don't think it is Nazi policy if the state provides healthcare and I never stated as much. What I stated was Barrack Obama's proposed healthcare legislation was a replay of the Nazi healthcare policy of Adolph Hitler. Now that's the real issue/question old Girl. Not some rehashed meaningless statement of the type you make. You mistate the facts and then attempt to argue based on your mistaken conception of the issue at hand. When President Barack Obama delivered his nationally televised press conference on July 22, in which he pressed for legislation that called for an "independent board of doctors and health-care experts" to be established as a means of cutting health-care costs, he crossed the line. Lyndon LaRouche, America's leading economist and statesman, who has been warning of the dangers of the President's Nero complex with ever-greater urgency since his April 11 webcast, responded immediately, with the following statement: President Obama is now impeachable, because he has, in effect, proposed legislation which is an exact copy of the legislation for which the Hitler regime was condemned in the post-World War II trials. It is an impeachable offense to propose such a thing in this time. With this statement from him, the President now deserves impeachment. http://www.larouchepub.com/eiw/public/2009.../04-07_3629.pdf Not very good at history are you? Nor is your understanding of National Socialism particularly strong. Your insistence also on referring to me as 'old girl' nicely confirms my view that you are more than a little touched. Your description of your cult's leader is hilarious. I speak simply. In short phrases. In the hope You may....... understand Your response is just insult and unproven assertions. How is that brilliant?

If my comments are as you describe they are libels not slanders. However I see nothing in your links or in the wacky world you seem to inhabit to suggest my comments are not held by the likes of larouche and webster tarply and other assorted nutcases there gathered. Your cult clearly holds the few that the world is run by murderous criminal financiers headed by the British establishment or is that libel too? - Let’s call it 'slibel' shall we as you clearly do not understand the difference. Your views on health care?? You think it is 'Nazi' for the state to provide it - surprised you forgot that given its complexity 'old girl??????????' "Your cult clearly holds the "few"? I don't know what you're rambling about old girl? Anyone wanting to know LaRouche's view should have little trouble accessing his speeches, writings, etc. Lord I provided you an on line version of Dope Inc. And no I don't think it is Nazi policy if the state provides healthcare and I never stated as much. What I stated was Barrack Obama's proposed healthcare legislation was a replay of the Nazi healthcare policy of Adolph Hitler. Now that's the real issue/question old Girl. Not some rehashed meaningless statement of the type you make. You mistate the facts and then attempt to argue based on your mistaken conception of the issue at hand. When President Barack Obama delivered his nationally televised press conference on July 22, in which he pressed for legislation that called for an "independent board of doctors and health-care experts" to be established as a means of cutting health-care costs, he crossed the line. Lyndon LaRouche, America's leading economist and statesman, who has been warning of the dangers of the President's Nero complex with ever-greater urgency since his April 11 webcast, responded immediately, with the following statement: President Obama is now impeachable, because he has, in effect, proposed legislation which is an exact copy of the legislation for which the Hitler regime was condemned in the post-World War II trials. It is an impeachable offense to propose such a thing in this time. With this statement from him, the President now deserves impeachment. http://www.larouchepub.com/eiw/public/2009.../04-07_3629.pdf

Correct you if you're wrong? Okay, you're wrong. But I have read these idiotic slanders many times myself. It takes little brains to repeat this worn out gossip. The last time I read this kind of tripe it came from the poison pen of Ambrose Evans- Pritchard who was in the employ of John Simkins former employer Lord Conrad Black and his "Hollinger Corporation". QUOTE: In the June 4 , 1998 edition of the Hollinger Corp.'s Daily Telegraph, Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, the infamous "Clinton-basher," penned a shameless slander against EIR and Lyndon LaRouche, absurdly blaming us for the "conspiracy industry" that has built up since the Aug. 31, 1997 death of Princess Diana, her companion Dodi Fayed, and driver Henri Paul. In typical Evans-Pritchard style, the British poison pen, who admits to close collaboration with Britain's MI6 intelligence service in all of his overseas assignments, lied that EIR is "accusing the Queen of ordering the assassination of Diana, Princess of Wales." He continued, "The group is led by Lyndon H. LaRouche, 76, a cranky economist, convicted felon and publisher of a book that accuses the Queen of being the world's foremost drug dealer." The latter bit of black propaganda is a reference to the book Dope, Inc., first published in 1979, which laid bare the role of the London-centered offshore financial institutions and allied intelligence services, in running the global drug trade, from the time of Britain's nineteenth-century Opium Wars against China. http://larouchepub.com/other/1998/2525_diana_wars.html If you want to know LaRouche's view on the international drug trade then you should wipe the tears from your eyes and read his book Dope Inc. A thorough reading should clear up any misconceptions you might have. Be warned, it will take longer than the "few minutes" it took you to find and repeat these worn out LaRouche slanders. http://www.conspiracyresearch.org/forums/i...post&id=266 You are really priceless and so are your links I see John Simkin is implicated in all this by dint of his employment history.... here's a good one too I am from the Isle of Man - a shady offshore tax haven - maybe I am in on it all too????? I once met the queen after all. Incidentally which bit of that sentence was slander (I think you mean libel) 'cranky, convicted felon, or book publisher? Getting back to the NHS - why are you against the idea of free access to basic health care at point of need? It has proved rather a good idea over here. Andy I was refering to these slanders. You wrote it and now you cannot remember? 1. The world is run by a financial elite headed by none other than Queen Elizabeth II 2. QEII (god bless her) is also an international narcotics runner and drugs baron (ness) 3. Our beloved monarch is also fairly adept at assassination - having had Princess Di done in - she now also plans to assassinate Lyndon Larouche. I did not implicate John Simkins. I simply pointed out that he worked for Hollinger Corporation, the same British media organization pumping out this fiction about Lyndon LaRouche. And if you don't know my position on healthcare then you havent been reading this thread, old girl.