Terry Mauro

I thought you were not allowed to swear on this message board.

Dawn, I think you have been asked to seek help many times before by others, I think I will join them now.

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"Dawn, I think you have been asked to seek help many times before by others, I think I will join them now."

Oh really???

Please cite these instances, and quit blowin' it out yer ass, Dulles!

Sorry John, Andy, students, and those who are delicately offended by cuss words.

By all means, hold out hope that Gerry may actually reveal something of significance. But if an when that happens, dollars to donuts, it'll be unintentional.

This, in particular, is why I usually read these posts with interest(and suspicion). You never know what may inadvertantly come out.

Gerry posted this comment 8/27/05:

"The day of the JFK assassination, Jim Lewis was [as usual] playing Chess at "Little Joe's" apartment by the Miami River -- together with Eddy Collins, "Skinny", Dick Whatley, Bobby Willis, and Bill Dempsey. When Garman started dancing in the street soon after hearing the news from Dallas, Jim chastized him severely [along with Cuban pissed-off neighbors]; He reminded him that just four days before he had been a member of our security detail for JFK at MIA [Monday, 18th Nov.], and that he had been prepared to "take-a-bullet" for the President !!"

Anyone else think it odd that Garman would "dance in the street" after hearing of JFK's demise, yet was "prepared to take a bullet" for him 4 days earlier?

I wouldn't dismiss EVERYTHING GHP has to say.

RJS

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Richard J:

Has "anybody" ever read a posting by "The Village Idiot" -- you know, one which might be construed as "Intentional" and "something of SIGNIFICANCE ??!!

Try as I might, I haven't found anything submitted by this nagging gadfly heckling xxxxx -- mayhaps one of the more "studious" members might discover same and re-post something ??

During the briefing for the MIA security detail [11/17/63] -- the day before JFK's scheduled arrival [Monday, 18th November 1963] the following individuals were in attendance:

Bernardo de Torres

"Nick" Navarro -- then with the Federal Bureau of Narcotics (Chas. Siragusa unit] and later Sheriff of Broward County, Forida -- and a childhood friend of Felix Rodriguez, who, along with CIA agent Gustavo Villoldo, aided in training the Bolivian Rangers [w/ Green Beret Major "Pappy" Shelton, 8th SFGrp - Panama Canal Zone] and whom together, hunted down and murdered Cmdte. Ernest "Che" Guevara de la Serna, a true warrior who never told a lie in his life !!

Special Agent Ernesto Aragon, U.S. Secret Service, and whose reports are to be found in the Warren Commission Documents.

Special Agent-in-Charge Gene Michaels, Head of the Miami Office of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics, who two months later [at the beginning of the WC] was framed by a drug sting, and sent to the Federal Medical Facilty, Springfield, MO.

Gerald P. "Gerry Patrick" Hemming, Jr. [interPen]

Howard K. "Davy" Davis [interPen]

Detective Sgt. Anthony "Tony" Fontana [City of Miami Police Dept.] and one of the cops who identified the corpse of Eladio "Gito" Del Valle[1967]. I was permitted to verify the I.D. of "Gito" only after insisting that the N.O. D.A., "Jim" Garrison had a severe interest in the deceased !! Upon retirement, Fontana served regularly as Chairman of the Florida Parole Commission through the 1980s.

Deputy Sheriff Lloyd Hough [Dade County Sheriff's Dept. -- under the then Sheriff & Brig. Gen. Tom Kelly] who during the mid-1970s attempted to thwart our investigation of the World Finance Corp.!! WFC was founded by Hernandez Cartaya -- while he was busy founding BCCI type banks in the United Arab Emirates -- and was subsequently charged with absconding with almost $100 million+.

Hough was later laterally transfer to the Dade Co. Fire Dept. while under a cloud of corruption linked to a Cuban County Commissioner. Hough, during the 1990s, and by then in charge of Fire Service Internal Affairs, blackballed my son Felipe from being hired by said Dept.!! And this, despite already serving some 14 years as a professional Firefighter/EMT. And this despite the fact that Felipe Vidal Santiago Hemming had risen to #9 on a list of 300+ accepted applicants. [Only #9 -- due to the fact that extra points were given to the top 8 for lateral transfer from other NON-fire fighting Dade jobs. Otherwise, and with military service points, he would have ranked #1 !!

And others present unknown to either of us, but recognized as JM/WAVE CIA Officers. That is: save for CIA Officer David Morales, who having had words with me after the BOP; spent his time glaring in my direction !!

Suspicious that we were NOT invited to a "face-time" roll-call the next morning -- where all uniformed and plain-clothes officers posted at MIA, would know our faces. And that, coupled with a failure to issue special S.S. "buttonaires" -- convinced us that we would instruct our team to go "unarmed" the next day at MIA.

However, Interpen Instructor, Justin Joseph "Steve" Wilson informed me -- as Air Force One taxied toward us on the tarmac; that "Little Joe" Cavendish Garman had disobeyed our orders. And that he was armed with his Colt .45 Automatic Pistol. I thereupon approached "Lil' Joe" -- informed him to casually glance to his right rear, at the "suit" wearing sunglasses. He casually did, and said: "So...who is that weirdo..??" I responded: ".. That is the guy who is going to blow the back of your head off if you draw your pistol in defense of ["Lancer"] POTUS..!!

Later that evening, Little Joe remarked at the curiousity that he, and many others had been invited to Dallas later that week to meet the "Money People" !! He refused the invitation.

The evening of November 22nd 1963, Joe C. Garman was rebuffed by James Arthur Lewis for "dancing-in-the-streets"!!

While talking to Joe during 1994 [by telephone], after not havingspoken to him since 1967 -- I commenced to remind him of some of the humorous incidents which had occurred during the 1960s. I very cautiously asked him whether he remembered having ever seen "JFK in person" ??

His reponse was: "..You getting senile Patrick ??...of course...it was at the Miami Airport a few days before he got hisself kilt..!! "...Don't you remember giving me a hard time for packing my Colt to the Airport..??

I reminded him of the "suit" having stood behind him. He responded that: "..Had I the intentions...He would have been taken down first...and the only reason I didn't shoot that son-of-a-bitch Kennedy...was because he was still my COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF" !!"

Later,

GPH

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"Cmdte. Ernest "Che" Guevara de la Serna, a true warrior who never told a lie in his life !!"

Why do you always refer to him that way? Are you being snide, or is this another one of your cryptic code messages, only known to those of the covert-ops persuasion?

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Ms. Mauro:

I served with the man in Cuba. When I suggested [during 1959 in Havana] that he take up where he left off as a youngster [in Argentina] flying motorless gliders -- he went after flying like a demon possessed.

In very short order he had over 100 hours in a friend's [an instructor] single engine airplane. A couple of times, after watching us parachute from C-47s, he said: "...Don't ever expect me to do that stuff...flying is enough thrills for me..!!" I told him that Cmdte. [Major] Rene de los Santos was already flying left-seat in a twin engine Cessna 310; and that if he didn't get with it -- Rene was going to fill his pilot's log book up before he was even "checked-out" in a light twin.

After searching for Cmdte. Camilo Cienfuegos for 16 days, and discovering that he had been shot down by accident near San Jose del Lago, Las Villas Province -- we switched to doing some "water" parachute jumps

right in front of the Rosita de Hornedo Hotel, Miramar, Havana -- and I didn't see "Che for some weeks.

During January 1960, he arrived [with Aleda March] at my Air Base in western Pinar del Rio Province. We had no radio in the control tower, so I didn't know it was him arriving.

He popped out of the Cessna 310 [light-twin] and said someting which I couldn't make out. He always spoke in such a low voice, I would have to lean down close to listen. He repeated: "...Vos lo ves [you notice] that I am in the "left-seat" and driving this very fast and nice airplane..?" "..I have over 35 hours in the pilot seat recored in my log book already.." I almost told him he was now ready for parachute instruction, but thought better of it, and kept on talking about navigation, etc. !

He arranged for me to train the Sandinista guerrillas at my San Julian Air Base. He honored my request for reinforcements, because we had been attacked twice just after Christmas [Navidades - Noche Buena].

He got me released from La Cabana Fortress after having been arrested by limp-wristed secret police punks.

I left Cuba for Mexico enroute to fight against the Nicaraguan dictator Somoza during October 1960.

Upon learning that the Cuban authorities had jailed my close friend Cmdte. William Alexander Morgan, I opted to go north to the states on a gun-running mission -- expecting that once inside the U.S. -- I might get support enough to save William's life. Amongst those efforts was a sit-down with the famous liberal labor leader Harry Bridges [san Pedro - Los Angeles - December 1960] Harry Bridges promised to have his friends in the Latino labor movement inquire into the situation. Everything failed, and Morgan was executed on March 11th, 1961 !!

Skipping ahead to 1966. I was tasked by JJA's CI division to go to Ascension Island [british owned] and there prepare for an operation to kidnap "Che" [alive] from the Baraka, Congo [Leopoldville] area where he and many Cubans were advising the Simba rebels. However "Che" had already crossed over Lake Tanganyika and was on his way to Prague. We went back to the States [CONUS] just after July 4th, 1966.

While signing up for service in Vietnam with USAID/Public Safety -- I was once again approached to go to do the "Che" Op -- this time to Bolivia, so as to "snatch" Guevara out of there "ALIVE", or provide an aircraft for him to fly out so that we might intercept him in Uruguay, his 1st choice as "Safe-Haven".

I turned it down, and as you know, Felix and Gus tried to do that mission, but Banzer gave orders to Gary Prado to execute him. ["Code-Word 500"]

I feel today that had I gone, the outcome most likely would have resulted in his death anyway !!

Just by his diaries -- you can plainly see that this warrior never told a lie in his entire life !! He is missed terribly !! R.I.P.

I don't expert that everybody [including you] has the time to bone-up on these things. It is much easier for me [stressful also] because I was there, and I "walked-the-walk" !!

Regards,

GPH

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I've read his diaries, and not just the motorcycle ones, wiseguy!

"While signing up for service in Vietnam with USAID/Public Safety -- I was once again approached to go to do the "Che" Op -- this time to Bolivia, so as to "snatch" Guevara out of there "ALIVE", or provide an aircraft for him to fly out so that we might intercept him in Uruguay, his 1st choice as "Safe-Haven".

I turned it down, and as you know, Felix and Gus tried to do that mission, but Banzer gave orders to Gary Prado to execute him. ["Code-Word 500"]

I feel today that had I gone, the outcome most likely would have resulted in his death anyway !!

Just by his diaries -- you can plainly see that this warrior never told a lie in his entire life !! He is missed terribly !! R.I.P."

How could you have turned it down??? You'd even met his wife, Aleda!!!

Felix and Gus had tried to do that mission??? They killed him!!! If you respected him as much as you make out like you do, HOW COULD YOU HAVE LET HIM DIE that way???

"I feel today that had I gone, the outcome most likely would have resulted in his death anyway !!"

If you're as honorable as you claim to be, in all your bravado for the corp and the valor of your compadres, how can you believe that you couldn't have made a difference??? Or, are you simply trying to justify your refusal to go in there and help him, and the diastrous results that followed?

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We sent a "Big Gringo" to fire an M-2 Carbine [more than a couple times] right next door to his first safe-house. When that didn't clue him in that his operation had been blown, we started the finger pointing about his guys being Cocaine lab operators. Nothing worked. He was burnt out from Africa, and Mario Monje [under Moscow orders] was sabotaging his every move -- because he was a Maoist, but more so, because they didn't go for the guerrilla campaign stuff.

Monje practically hand delivered Intel to the CIA Cuban Dep/Chief of Station. NSA was intercepting all of the radio messages [burst transmitters] to the Rio Platte trawlers. Even THEY were trying to get him to get out of Dodge.

When he changed the pre-planned AOR [Area of Operations] -- from the more hospitable Alto Beni Plateau, and instead went down to the semi-desert Nuncahuazo/Vallegrande locale, he was a dead man.

He didn't do a proper "Country Area Study", and had his guys learn Quechua, when 99% of the indigenous indians there speak Guarani and Aymara. Beards are unknown to the locals, and these foreign "invaders"scared the xxxx out of them

I turned it down because while in D.C. I had a relapse of my Dengue Fever. Then came the finger pointing by Garrison --whilst he tried to save Marcello's little ass from RFK's "Sheridan Squad". I had family, and I was getting tired of the LBJ "Texican" horse-xxxx approach to everything.

It took Gus a lot longer getting over the La Higuera scene, because he also had fought Batista. Felix , because his family was Prio rooted, mistakenly took to the opposite, trophy boasting.

Moreover, the Batistiano coward-ass bastards had the D.C. REMF pogue's ears while whining about all of the executions done by Herman at La Cabana -- despite the fact that "Che" was absent and doing the "Bank" thing -- and duties as G-3 ["Operations & Training" for the General Staff - Fuerzas Armadas Revolutionarias]

Get-over-IT !! [i haven't]

GPH

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Thanks for taking the time to give me the rundown.

"Get-over-IT !! [i haven't]"

I wish I COULD "Get-over-IT !!", but the picture of Che with his young children at the time, is vividly etched in my mind. He will always be a hero, to me. I carried the picture of his assassination, which I cut out of the New York Times back in 1967, around in my wallet until it fell apart in 1986. They could not kill his spirit. Even in death, his face radiated life. Everything he stood for were the values I cherish to this day. He was a fine example of a human being whose ideologies for the common man transcended all borders and all walks of life. His speeches and writings will echo through the ages because he had REAL and HONEST solutions to offer. Something sorely missing in today's fascist-minded world view. VIVA EL CHE!

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Jon Anderson [He and his brother exposed the origins of the "Contras"] spent a few years in Havana, Cuba with the widow and kids. It saddened me that "Che" had opted for the "ascetic warrior's life of poverty" and denied his family the amenities of life that his prestige and honorable service routinely provided. Especially

the manner to which Fidel, Raul, Pedro Miret, Unverso Sanchez, et al. had long since grown accustomed to !!

Cmdte. Felipe Vidal Santiago, acted exactly the same way once he was living in Miami -- after Jake got him to defect from the Cuban Embassy in Caracas, Venezuela.

[i add geographical details because: students are scanning this Forum, and some might not be familiar with locales, acronyms, cryptonyms, and this saves time for they and some members. Instead of having to punch in search engines, thesauri, dictionaries, etc. -- one might flow thru without interruption. Some known, but herein unnamed, parties might be wont to accuse me of treating readers as being semi-literate -- we can't have that now, can we?]

One day I chastized Felipe for this, as I had just delivered $15,000 to him in and envelope -- and within minutes he was bumming a Pall Mall cigarette off of me !! We were walking past a store by his house at that moment, so I told him to reach inside the bag, pull out one of the $20 bills -- go into the damn store and buy some smokes. He responded that this was NOT money for his personal use, it was for the revolution. So I just shut-my-mouth and gave him a cigarette.

Obviously "Che", being most aware of the privations imposed upon the Cuban people by the [illegal and Treaty violating] U.S. "Embargo" -- decided that he and his family would live no better than the poorest of the "Guajiros"!! Moreover, and realizing he would soon enough be back in "the bush", and experiencing the ever present breathing problems -- living "slim" may have seemed to be correct "prepping" for the not to distant future missions.

Anybody who states that "Che" said that: If the "nuke" missiles had been under his control, he would have launched against the U.S. -- is a lying coward-ass REMF !! He never said it.

In fact, he offered an Olive Branch to the "Yanquis" on more than one occasion, and was rebuffed and/or ignored by JFK's "buddies".

Jean's and Lisa's flights/interviews with Fidel were "stalking-horse" set-ups -- by people who wanted to surveil Fidel from a known locale, and ultimately trail him to where he would stay that night. He changed these locales almost on a daily basis to avoid being hit !!

So much for the suckers who still swallow and swill the r'approchment line of crap. These were only two of the dozens of failed surveillance ploys against Fidel -- the first having started via June Cobb and Juan Orta.

Amidst my debriefing by CIA [once out of Cuba], a second officer was sent in -- and he focused quite a bit on possible techniques of getting into Cuban military buildings, AND -- what would cause Fidel to spontaneously make an apppearance at a specific pre-planned locale ??!!

I responded that: If he was thinking about Fidel rushing to the Le Coubre and the Cayo Loco explosions ?? I told him to forget about it. Fidel's security detail wouldn't permit such reckless behavior anymore.

Later,

GPH

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"It saddened me that "Che" had opted for the "ascetic warrior's life of poverty" and denied his family the amenities of life that his prestige and honorable service routinely provided. Especially the manner to which Fidel, Raul, Pedro Miret, Unverso Sanchez, et al. had long since grown accustomed to !!"

I can only feel remorse for the fact in knowing how adamant Che believed in his ideals, that his "opting" for the "ascetic warrior's life of poverty", cost him his life. At least he wasn't a hypocrit about his beliefs. At least he put himself on par with the guajiros he chose to fight for. And, at least he didn't compromise his ethics when it came to standing up for what he believed in. That's what made him such a threat to the U.S. gov., his blatant honesty, and the Christ-like objectivity he had for those who would be oppressed and exploited by empirialistic pigs. It's extremely sad for his widow and children to have not had the amenities they should have been entitled to, but I would hope that he would have instilled in them the same ideologies, and had taken the time to explain why he felt so strongly about them. Hopefully they were old enough to understand what a great human being their father was. And, if they were too young to have realized it at the time, I'm sure they must have learned of this fact by now. I see where his daughter has spoken of this.

CHE GUEVARA: GUERILLA HEROICA

by Jane Franklin

[Published in The Nation, May 19, 1997]

Che Guevara: A Revolutionary Life.

By Jon Lee Anderson.

Grove Press. 814 pp. $35.

With Che Guevara: A Revolutionary Life, Jon Lee Anderson seeks to capture the man who has become a twentieth-century myth. It's a daunting task. Thirty years after his death, Che Guevara has multiple incarnations--on the wall next to Jesus in homes of Salvadoran peasants; tattooed on the arm of Swedish Olympic boxer Kwamena Turkson; on countless T-shirts and as the name of a British beer; as the Christ figure in a mural of Chicano heroes called The Last Supper in Stanford University's Latino Dorm; on a banner borne by rock group Rage Against the Machine; as the choral observer in Evita; in an espionage thriller soon to be produced by Mick Jagger; in a film series to be shown in Brazil in August; on the French CD Che Vive--1967-1997; portrayed by Cheech Marin with cigar and beret in George magazine; and of course in Cuba everywhere, from souvenirs to the giant portrait overlooking the Plaza de la Revolución. Does Anderson succeed? Well, yes and no.

Anderson, a journalist who has reported on several recent wars, based his previous book, Guerrillas (1992), on his experience living with Afghanistan's mujahedeen, El Salvador's FMLN, Myanmar's Karen, the Western Sahara's Polisario, and Gaza Palestinians waging the intifada. His quest for the meaning of the guerrilla experience sooner or later had to lead to Che Guevara, the Guerrilla Heroica himself.

A skillful interviewer, Anderson elicited information from dozens of participants in Guevara's life. While researching and writing this book, he lived in Cuba, where he talked with some of the people closest to Guevara (though not Fidel or Raúl Castro). He had access to Cuba's oral histories and of course to published materials by Guevara and others, including relatives, friends, and enemies. Guevara's widow, Aleida March, gave Anderson access to previously unpublished materials and her own recollections and memorabilia such as poems Guevara wrote for her and for Fidel Castro. From Cuba, Anderson traveled to several countries, interviewing relatives and friends in Argentina, former KGB agents in Moscow and comrades in Bolivia as well as Bolivian officials involved in Guevara's capture and death. In Miami, he met with Cuban-American CIA agent Félix Rodríguez, who was present at Guevara's murder.

The biography follows Guevara from his birth in Argentina in 1928 until he was hunted down by CIA operatives and Bolivian Rangers, captured, and executed in 1967. Combining contradictory sources and an immense amount of detail, Anderson projects a multifaceted view of Guevara as a person, seething with ambiguities and complexities. This is an achievement that makes Che Guevara essential for anyone seriously interested in Guevara or the Cuban revolution. With his own experience living with guerrillas, Anderson is especially effective at merging material from Guevara's diaries with other people's oral and written accounts to re-create the battlegrounds of guerrilla warfare.

But Anderson never quite communicates an understanding of why Guevara remains such a powerful presence. Relying too much on secondary sources for his knowledge of Cuban history, he fails to grasp the nature of the revolution for which Guevara, Fidel Castro and so many others were willing to die. As a major historical figure, Guevara must be understood in his historical context. He perceived his life's purpose as part of a struggle against imperialism, in which the fight to break U.S. control over Cuba could be crucial. Anderson sees Cuba-U.S. relations as a "tit-for-tat war."

According to Anderson, the "final straw" that led President Eisenhower to sever relations with Cuba on January 3, 1961, was a military mobilization on the streets of Havana on January 1 followed by a demand that Washington cut its Havana embassy staff. But the break in relations was not based on such flimsy reasons. Washington had decided to overthrow the Cuban government and could hardly launch an invasion while maintaining supposedly peaceful relations. Havana's show of weaponry was to let everybody know Cubans were ready for an attack they knew was coming even as Washington denied any such intention. Although Anderson records the Eisenhower Administration's plans for invasion, he doesn't make key connections. Cuba's repeated requests for U.N. help in preventing the assault are not mentioned. The "final straw" for Havana might have come on November 1, 1960, when the U.S. Ambassador to the U.N., James Wadsworth, called Cuba's charges of a planned attack "monstrous distortions and downright falsehoods." Five months later, the Kennedy Administration launched the Bay of Pigs invasion.

Or perhaps the "final straw" for Cuba came when the first hitmen arrived from Miami as part of the August 1960 CIA-Mafia plots to assassinate Cuban leaders. Curiously, Anderson devotes little space to the ceaseless covert operations against Cuba. He alludes only briefly to collusion with the Mafia. He refers only once to the CIA's Edward Lansdale, director of the covert Operation Mongoose, which was aimed at overthrowing the Cuban government by October 1962. Although Anderson notes that Mongoose provided for direct U.S. military intervention, he fails to see how this operation, initiated in November 1961 by President Kennedy, and threatening a second invasion, influenced Cuba's buildup of nuclear defenses--the buildup that led to the missile crisis of October 1962.

Nor does Anderson comprehend, as both Havana and Washington did, how Edward Lansdale embodied the ties between events in Vietnam and impending events in Cuba. After all, this was the man who had led the cloak-and-dagger campaign to establish the U.S. puppet government in Saigon in 1954-55. In 1961 Lansdale had just returned from a new operation in Vietnam, where Operation Hades, a massive U.S. chemical warfare program, had just been secretly launched. Anderson hardly deals with Vietnam at all. Yet during those crucial years of Guevara's life from 1961 to 1967 the U.S. war in Vietnam loomed over the world, profoundly influencing hundreds of millions of people, none more than Guevara.

Anderson seems not to share Guevara's view of U.S. imperialism, and downplays the U.S. role in global events. Speaking at a 1961 rally to mobilize Cubans for the imminent U.S. invasion, Guevara cited the recent murder of Patrice Lumumba as "an example of what the empire is capable of." In the many pages devoted to events in the Congo (later Zaire), Anderson contests this claim (without mentioning it). Though he reports a plan by Dr. Sidney Gottlieb of the CIA's "medical division" to poison Lumumba, he states that "before the CIA could get close to Lumumba, however, his own Congolese rivals did." But the CIA and the U.S. Embassy had already connived with these Congolese rivals--Moise Tshombe and Joseph Mobutu--to murder Lumumba. Mobutu, who turned Lumumba over to Tshombe to kill, was actually on the CIA payroll. Four years later, when Guevara left Cuba to fight against Tshombe and Mobutu on the side of Lumumba's followers, the CIA had already dispatched a band of Cuban exiles, trained for the Bay of Pigs, to fly bombing raids for Tshombe. This CIA operation, ignored by Anderson, suggests that Washington shared Guevara's view of the dimensions of the struggle.

In the Epilogue, Anderson retells a story that he first broke on November 21, 1995, in The New York Times: A retired Bolivian officer told him where Guevara is supposedly buried. Despite a lot of digging, the body has not yet been found. In Viva Che! (1968), Marianne Alexandre reported that when Roberto Guevara arrived in Bolivia shortly after Che's death, he was told his brother had been cremated and his ashes scattered. After receiving the news of Anderson's story, Guevara's daughter Aleida, a doctor in Cuba, said that her father "lives in a mountain of people" and "is still giving his own killers a headache."

e-mail to Jane Franklin: janefranklin@hotmail.com

Jane Franklin is the author of Cuba and the United States: A Chronological History.

[quote name='Lynne Foster' date='Nov 13 2005, 01:19 AM' post='45010']

Like you, Garrison trashed himself.

Lynne:

You're truly one sicko wacco. I am the one here who really tries to get along with everyone but

know what: let me get booted I don't care. Take a flying frikken leap into the nowherere you dropped into here from. Go back to the freaks in TO (I am former Canadian,and have relatives in TO, so I know of which I speak).

YOu have ZERO to add to this case. You're probably some fruitcake desperately in need of serious meds.

Like someone- (Steve?) -said "if you don't get help at Charter, get help somewhere....."

Do you actually have a THOUGHT in your head????

I seriously doubt it.

YOu, gerrry and purvert all crawled out from under the same friggen rock. Must be a full moon or something.

Close, but no "Cigar".

It was: "Captain Pervert", and in that regard, one must "earn" his nickname in SF, to be evenly closely respected by his Team Members.

Tom

P.S. My "ex"-wife never could get used to or accept being referred to as "Mrs. Captain Pervert" by "Pappy"; "Smitty"; "Roland/aka "The Animal"; "Indian Joe"; etc; etc; etc.

This did get somewhat out of hand when Rolands boys, one day in school in Key West, yelled out for all to hear: "Hi Mrs. Captain Pervert" to my wife who was a teacher at the Dependent School out on Trumbo Point Annex.

a) the CIA killed Kennedy

the CIA and Mafia killed kenedy

Especially after reading Mellens new book (actually am on p.341) i am starting to favor choice a. The mafia may have had some role but this may have simply been a decoy to throw off scent should witnesses by forced to put hand on smudged bibles. Similar to the strategy of using homosexuals and ex-nazi financiers as agents so the agency 'has something against them' and can easily destroy their credibility in court

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"a. the CIA killed Kennedy"

With the help of their Wall Street financier "players" who had the unlimited dough on hand to cover all the graft and bribes needed to facilitate the massive cover-up.

"b. the CIA and Mafia killed Kennedy"

Everybody knows that to the CIA, the mob is merely their civilian sector's para law enforcement agency. That's why they've always referred to themselves as "Lieutenants". They are also known, on occasion, to employ the services of the Hells Angels, as well as certain other renegade factions to carry out the actual mechanical operations they no longer wish their Cosa [La Costa] Nostra "legit" name to be connected with. The days of "The Untouchables" have been replaced by the "Harvard Corporate Law" educated offspring of their present day Sicilian descendants. "Movin' on up" that ladder of success, but losing that vowel at the end of a surname is the real key to entering the kingdom of The Eastern Establishment. You'll never make it to the bigtime if you don't "anglicize".

By all means, hold out hope that Gerry may actually reveal something of significance. But if an when that happens, dollars to donuts, it'll be unintentional.

This, in particular, is why I usually read these posts with interest(and suspicion). You never know what may inadvertantly come out.

Gerry posted this comment 8/27/05:

"The day of the JFK assassination, Jim Lewis was [as usual] playing Chess at "Little Joe's" apartment by the Miami River -- together with Eddy Collins, "Skinny", Dick Whatley, Bobby Willis, and Bill Dempsey. When Garman started dancing in the street soon after hearing the news from Dallas, Jim chastized him severely [along with Cuban pissed-off neighbors]; He reminded him that just four days before he had been a member of our security detail for JFK at MIA [Monday, 18th Nov.], and that he had been prepared to "take-a-bullet" for the President !!"

Anyone else think it odd that Garman would "dance in the street" after hearing of JFK's demise, yet was "prepared to take a bullet" for him 4 days earlier?

I wouldn't dismiss EVERYTHING GHP has to say.

RJS

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Richard J:

Has "anybody" ever read a posting by "The Village Idiot" -- you know, one which might be construed as "Intentional" and "something of SIGNIFICANCE ??!!

Try as I might, I haven't found anything submitted by this nagging gadfly heckling xxxxx -- mayhaps one of the more "studious" members might discover same and re-post something ??

During the briefing for the MIA security detail [11/17/63] -- the day before JFK's scheduled arrival [Monday, 18th November 1963] the following individuals were in attendance:

Bernardo de Torres

"Nick" Navarro -- then with the Federal Bureau of Narcotics (Chas. Siragusa unit] and later Sheriff of Broward County, Forida -- and a childhood friend of Felix Rodriguez, who, along with CIA agent Gustavo Villoldo, aided in training the Bolivian Rangers [w/ Green Beret Major "Pappy" Shelton, 8th SFGrp - Panama Canal Zone] and whom together, hunted down and murdered Cmdte. Ernest "Che" Guevara de la Serna, a true warrior who never told a lie in his life !!

Special Agent Ernesto Aragon, U.S. Secret Service, and whose reports are to be found in the Warren Commission Documents.

Special Agent-in-Charge Gene Michaels, Head of the Miami Office of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics, who two months later [at the beginning of the WC] was framed by a drug sting, and sent to the Federal Medical Facilty, Springfield, MO.

Gerald P. "Gerry Patrick" Hemming, Jr. [interPen]

Howard K. "Davy" Davis [interPen]

Detective Sgt. Anthony "Tony" Fontana [City of Miami Police Dept.] and one of the cops who identified the corpse of Eladio "Gito" Del Valle[1967]. I was permitted to verify the I.D. of "Gito" only after insisting that the N.O. D.A., "Jim" Garrison had a severe interest in the deceased !! Upon retirement, Fontana served regularly as Chairman of the Florida Parole Commission through the 1980s.

Deputy Sheriff Lloyd Hough [Dade County Sheriff's Dept. -- under the then Sheriff & Brig. Gen. Tom Kelly] who during the mid-1970s attempted to thwart our investigation of the World Finance Corp.!! WFC was founded by Hernandez Cartaya -- while he was busy founding BCCI type banks in the United Arab Emirates -- and was subsequently charged with absconding with almost $100 million+.

Hough was later laterally transfer to the Dade Co. Fire Dept. while under a cloud of corruption linked to a Cuban County Commissioner. Hough, during the 1990s, and by then in charge of Fire Service Internal Affairs, blackballed my son Felipe from being hired by said Dept.!! And this, despite already serving some 14 years as a professional Firefighter/EMT. And this despite the fact that Felipe Vidal Santiago Hemming had risen to #9 on a list of 300+ accepted applicants. [Only #9 -- due to the fact that extra points were given to the top 8 for lateral transfer from other NON-fire fighting Dade jobs. Otherwise, and with military service points, he would have ranked #1 !!

And others present unknown to either of us, but recognized as JM/WAVE CIA Officers. That is: save for CIA Officer David Morales, who having had words with me after the BOP; spent his time glaring in my direction !!

Suspicious that we were NOT invited to a "face-time" roll-call the next morning -- where all uniformed and plain-clothes officers posted at MIA, would know our faces. And that, coupled with a failure to issue special S.S. "buttonaires" -- convinced us that we would instruct our team to go "unarmed" the next day at MIA.

However, Interpen Instructor, Justin Joseph "Steve" Wilson informed me -- as Air Force One taxied toward us on the tarmac; that "Little Joe" Cavendish Garman had disobeyed our orders. And that he was armed with his Colt .45 Automatic Pistol. I thereupon approached "Lil' Joe" -- informed him to casually glance to his right rear, at the "suit" wearing sunglasses. He casually did, and said: "So...who is that weirdo..??" I responded: ".. That is the guy who is going to blow the back of your head off if you draw your pistol in defense of ["Lancer"] POTUS..!!

Later that evening, Little Joe remarked at the curiousity that he, and many others had been invited to Dallas later that week to meet the "Money People" !! He refused the invitation.

The evening of November 22nd 1963, Joe C. Garman was rebuffed by James Arthur Lewis for "dancing-in-the-streets"!!

While talking to Joe during 1994 [by telephone], after not havingspoken to him since 1967 -- I commenced to remind him of some of the humorous incidents which had occurred during the 1960s. I very cautiously asked him whether he remembered having ever seen "JFK in person" ??

His reponse was: "..You getting senile Patrick ??...of course...it was at the Miami Airport a few days before he got hisself kilt..!! "...Don't you remember giving me a hard time for packing my Colt to the Airport..??

I reminded him of the "suit" having stood behind him. He responded that: "..Had I the intentions...He would have been taken down first...and the only reason I didn't shoot that son-of-a-bitch Kennedy...was because he was still my COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF" !!"

Later,

GPH

__________________________

***************************************************************************

"Cmdte. Ernest "Che" Guevara de la Serna, a true warrior who never told a lie in his life !!"

Why do you always refer to him that way? Are you being snide, or is this another one of your cryptic code messages, only known to those of the covert-ops persuasion?

--------------------------

Ms. Mauro:

I served with the man in Cuba. When I suggested [during 1959 in Havana] that he take up where he left off as a youngster [in Argentina] flying motorless gliders -- he went after flying like a demon possessed.

In very short order he had over 100 hours in a friend's [an instructor] single engine airplane. A couple of times, after watching us parachute from C-47s, he said: "...Don't ever expect me to do that stuff...flying is enough thrills for me..!!" I told him that Cmdte. [Major] Rene de los Santos was already flying left-seat in a twin engine Cessna 310; and that if he didn't get with it -- Rene was going to fill his pilot's log book up before he was even "checked-out" in a light twin.

After searching for Cmdte. Camilo Cienfuegos for 16 days, and discovering that he had been shot down by accident near San Jose del Lago, Las Villas Province -- we switched to doing some "water" parachute jumps

right in front of the Rosita de Hornedo Hotel, Miramar, Havana -- and I didn't see "Che for some weeks.

During January 1960, he arrived [with Aleda March] at my Air Base in western Pinar del Rio Province. We had no radio in the control tower, so I didn't know it was him arriving.

He popped out of the Cessna 310 [light-twin] and said someting which I couldn't make out. He always spoke in such a low voice, I would have to lean down close to listen. He repeated: "...Vos lo ves [you notice] that I am in the "left-seat" and driving this very fast and nice airplane..?" "..I have over 35 hours in the pilot seat recored in my log book already.." I almost told him he was now ready for parachute instruction, but thought better of it, and kept on talking about navigation, etc. !

He arranged for me to train the Sandinista guerrillas at my San Julian Air Base. He honored my request for reinforcements, because we had been attacked twice just after Christmas [Navidades - Noche Buena].

He got me released from La Cabana Fortress after having been arrested by limp-wristed secret police punks.

I left Cuba for Mexico enroute to fight against the Nicaraguan dictator Somoza during October 1960.

Upon learning that the Cuban authorities had jailed my close friend Cmdte. William Alexander Morgan, I opted to go north to the states on a gun-running mission -- expecting that once inside the U.S. -- I might get support enough to save William's life. Amongst those efforts was a sit-down with the famous liberal labor leader Harry Bridges [san Pedro - Los Angeles - December 1960] Harry Bridges promised to have his friends in the Latino labor movement inquire into the situation. Everything failed, and Morgan was executed on March 11th, 1961 !!

Skipping ahead to 1966. I was tasked by JJA's CI division to go to Ascension Island [british owned] and there prepare for an operation to kidnap "Che" [alive] from the Baraka, Congo [Leopoldville] area where he and many Cubans were advising the Simba rebels. However "Che" had already crossed over Lake Tanganyika and was on his way to Prague. We went back to the States [CONUS] just after July 4th, 1966.

While signing up for service in Vietnam with USAID/Public Safety -- I was once again approached to go to do the "Che" Op -- this time to Bolivia, so as to "snatch" Guevara out of there "ALIVE", or provide an aircraft for him to fly out so that we might intercept him in Uruguay, his 1st choice as "Safe-Haven".

I turned it down, and as you know, Felix and Gus tried to do that mission, but Banzer gave orders to Gary Prado to execute him. ["Code-Word 500"]

I feel today that had I gone, the outcome most likely would have resulted in his death anyway !!

Just by his diaries -- you can plainly see that this warrior never told a lie in his entire life !! He is missed terribly !! R.I.P.

I don't expert that everybody [including you] has the time to bone-up on these things. It is much easier for me [stressful also] because I was there, and I "walked-the-walk" !!

Regards,

GPH

______________________

************************************************************************

I've read his diaries, and not just the motorcycle ones, wiseguy!

"While signing up for service in Vietnam with USAID/Public Safety -- I was once again approached to go to do the "Che" Op -- this time to Bolivia, so as to "snatch" Guevara out of there "ALIVE", or provide an aircraft for him to fly out so that we might intercept him in Uruguay, his 1st choice as "Safe-Haven".

I turned it down, and as you know, Felix and Gus tried to do that mission, but Banzer gave orders to Gary Prado to execute him. ["Code-Word 500"]

I feel today that had I gone, the outcome most likely would have resulted in his death anyway !!

Just by his diaries -- you can plainly see that this warrior never told a lie in his entire life !! He is missed terribly !! R.I.P."

How could you have turned it down??? You'd even met his wife, Aleda!!!

Felix and Gus had tried to do that mission??? They killed him!!! If you respected him as much as you make out like you do, HOW COULD YOU HAVE LET HIM DIE that way???

"I feel today that had I gone, the outcome most likely would have resulted in his death anyway !!"

If you're as honorable as you claim to be, in all your bravado for the corp and the valor of your compadres, how can you believe that you couldn't have made a difference??? Or, are you simply trying to justify your refusal to go in there and help him, and the diastrous results that followed?

-------------------------------

We sent a "Big Gringo" to fire an M-2 Carbine [more than a couple times] right next door to his first safe-house. When that didn't clue him in that his operation had been blown, we started the finger pointing about his guys being Cocaine lab operators. Nothing worked. He was burnt out from Africa, and Mario Monje [under Moscow orders] was sabotaging his every move -- because he was a Maoist, but more so, because they didn't go for the guerrilla campaign stuff.

Monje practically hand delivered Intel to the CIA Cuban Dep/Chief of Station. NSA was intercepting all of the radio messages [burst transmitters] to the Rio Platte trawlers. Even THEY were trying to get him to get out of Dodge.

When he changed the pre-planned AOR [Area of Operations] -- from the more hospitable Alto Beni Plateau, and instead went down to the semi-desert Nuncahuazo/Vallegrande locale, he was a dead man.

He didn't do a proper "Country Area Study", and had his guys learn Quechua, when 99% of the indigenous indians there speak Guarani and Aymara. Beards are unknown to the locals, and these foreign "invaders"scared the xxxx out of them

I turned it down because while in D.C. I had a relapse of my Dengue Fever. Then came the finger pointing by Garrison --whilst he tried to save Marcello's little ass from RFK's "Sheridan Squad". I had family, and I was getting tired of the LBJ "Texican" horse-xxxx approach to everything.

It took Gus a lot longer getting over the La Higuera scene, because he also had fought Batista. Felix , because his family was Prio rooted, mistakenly took to the opposite, trophy boasting.

Moreover, the Batistiano coward-ass bastards had the D.C. REMF pogue's ears while whining about all of the executions done by Herman at La Cabana -- despite the fact that "Che" was absent and doing the "Bank" thing -- and duties as G-3 ["Operations & Training" for the General Staff - Fuerzas Armadas Revolutionarias]

Get-over-IT !! [i haven't]

GPH

_________________________

********************************************************************8

Thanks for taking the time to give me the rundown.

"Get-over-IT !! [i haven't]"

I wish I COULD "Get-over-IT !!", but the picture of Che with his young children at the time, is vividly etched in my mind. He will always be a hero, to me. I carried the picture of his assassination, which I cut out of the New York Times back in 1967, around in my wallet until it fell apart in 1986. They could not kill his spirit. Even in death, his face radiated life. Everything he stood for were the values I cherish to this day. He was a fine example of a human being whose ideologies for the common man transcended all borders and all walks of life. His speeches and writings will echo through the ages because he had REAL and HONEST solutions to offer. Something sorely missing in today's fascist-minded world view. VIVA EL CHE!

Mat Wilson's online disinfo book?

I think Jim Garrison, Gerald Posner, John McAdams and the like, promote disinformation.

I haven't read any disinformation by Mat Wilson.

Actually;

John's (McAdams) site promotes factual research to support a conclusion, as opposed to the "WAG" theory of problem resolution which has been utilized by many in regards to the subject matter.

It would benefit virtually any "new & untainted" researcher to review much of John's site, and thus hopefully avoid the pitfalls of entering the many "rabbit holes" which lead only to dead ends; fantasy land; Alice in Wonderland; etc; etc; etc;

Unfortunately, it appears that many of the human species are somewhat like various members of the "fowl" family.

Once "imprinted" with BS, they appear to be incapable of self determination between BS and "good stuff".

Not unlike watching too many "RAMBO" movies, watching Mr. Stone's "JFK" has "imprinted" many a person with fresh; pure; & unaltered BS.

Tom

P.S. "WAG" = Wild-Assed-Guess

*******************************************************************************

"fresh; pure; & unaltered BS."

I believe the word is "unadulterated", Purv. Correct me if I'm wrong.

How do you identify what you call a Mat Wilson site?

Owen, in my opinion, given your objections, you are just a Kennedy hater who masquerades as an admirer. Like Jim Garrison, you are all diversion and no substance.

I am absolutely convinced.

Owen, are all the sites that link to all the garbage and the propaganda that John McAdams promotes about the Kennedy assassination, John McAdams sites?

********************************************************

"Owen, in my opinion, given your objections, you are just a Kennedy hater who masquerades as an admirer. Like Jim Garrison, you are all diversion and no substance."

Owen, stick a fork in her. She's done.

Dawn:

Gratz, you're the poster here who is the minority of one who believes Castor did it.

Dawn, wrong again. Although the assassination is often allegorized to a classic Greek tragedy, I am confident that Castor is innocent. (Castor, a figure in Greek mythology, is the twin brother of Polydeuces (Pollux), one of the twin stars that form the constellation Gemini. He is the son of Zeus and a mortal, Leda of Sparta.)

**************************************************************************

"Although the assassination is often allegorized to a classic Greek tragedy, I am confident that Castor is innocent."

Gratz, you're such a clown! Are you trying to be a comedian, or something?

BTW, whatever happened to the pictures of Boca Chica Naval Air Station?

Don't insult Gregory peck.

Sheesh...

Terry M. was merely stating fact, not insulting Gregory Peck.

Gregory Peck would have been around 74-75 years old when JFK filmed. As great as Gregory Peck was, it would be a stretch to see him playing a late 40-ish Jim Garrison...

*************************************************************************8

"Terry M. was merely stating fact, not insulting Gregory Peck."

Thanks, Frank. But, Ms. Dulles has her own skewed view on life.

By all means, hold out hope that Gerry may actually reveal something of significance. But if an when that happens, dollars to donuts, it'll be unintentional.

This, in particular, is why I usually read these posts with interest(and suspicion). You never know what may inadvertantly come out.

Gerry posted this comment 8/27/05:

"The day of the JFK assassination, Jim Lewis was [as usual] playing Chess at "Little Joe's" apartment by the Miami River -- together with Eddy Collins, "Skinny", Dick Whatley, Bobby Willis, and Bill Dempsey. When Garman started dancing in the street soon after hearing the news from Dallas, Jim chastized him severely [along with Cuban pissed-off neighbors]; He reminded him that just four days before he had been a member of our security detail for JFK at MIA [Monday, 18th Nov.], and that he had been prepared to "take-a-bullet" for the President !!"

Anyone else think it odd that Garman would "dance in the street" after hearing of JFK's demise, yet was "prepared to take a bullet" for him 4 days earlier?

I wouldn't dismiss EVERYTHING GHP has to say.

RJS

--------------------------

Richard J:

Has "anybody" ever read a posting by "The Village Idiot" -- you know, one which might be construed as "Intentional" and "something of SIGNIFICANCE ??!!

Try as I might, I haven't found anything submitted by this nagging gadfly heckling xxxxx -- mayhaps one of the more "studious" members might discover same and re-post something ??

During the briefing for the MIA security detail [11/17/63] -- the day before JFK's scheduled arrival [Monday, 18th November 1963] the following individuals were in attendance:

Bernardo de Torres

"Nick" Navarro -- then with the Federal Bureau of Narcotics (Chas. Siragusa unit] and later Sheriff of Broward County, Forida -- and a childhood friend of Felix Rodriguez, who, along with CIA agent Gustavo Villoldo, aided in training the Bolivian Rangers [w/ Green Beret Major "Pappy" Shelton, 8th SFGrp - Panama Canal Zone] and whom together, hunted down and murdered Cmdte. Ernest "Che" Guevara de la Serna, a true warrior who never told a lie in his life !!

Special Agent Ernesto Aragon, U.S. Secret Service, and whose reports are to be found in the Warren Commission Documents.

Special Agent-in-Charge Gene Michaels, Head of the Miami Office of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics, who two months later [at the beginning of the WC] was framed by a drug sting, and sent to the Federal Medical Facilty, Springfield, MO.

Gerald P. "Gerry Patrick" Hemming, Jr. [interPen]

Howard K. "Davy" Davis [interPen]

Detective Sgt. Anthony "Tony" Fontana [City of Miami Police Dept.] and one of the cops who identified the corpse of Eladio "Gito" Del Valle[1967]. I was permitted to verify the I.D. of "Gito" only after insisting that the N.O. D.A., "Jim" Garrison had a severe interest in the deceased !! Upon retirement, Fontana served regularly as Chairman of the Florida Parole Commission through the 1980s.

Deputy Sheriff Lloyd Hough [Dade County Sheriff's Dept. -- under the then Sheriff & Brig. Gen. Tom Kelly] who during the mid-1970s attempted to thwart our investigation of the World Finance Corp.!! WFC was founded by Hernandez Cartaya -- while he was busy founding BCCI type banks in the United Arab Emirates -- and was subsequently charged with absconding with almost $100 million+.

Hough was later laterally transfer to the Dade Co. Fire Dept. while under a cloud of corruption linked to a Cuban County Commissioner. Hough, during the 1990s, and by then in charge of Fire Service Internal Affairs, blackballed my son Felipe from being hired by said Dept.!! And this, despite already serving some 14 years as a professional Firefighter/EMT. And this despite the fact that Felipe Vidal Santiago Hemming had risen to #9 on a list of 300+ accepted applicants. [Only #9 -- due to the fact that extra points were given to the top 8 for lateral transfer from other NON-fire fighting Dade jobs. Otherwise, and with military service points, he would have ranked #1 !!

And others present unknown to either of us, but recognized as JM/WAVE CIA Officers. That is: save for CIA Officer David Morales, who having had words with me after the BOP; spent his time glaring in my direction !!

Suspicious that we were NOT invited to a "face-time" roll-call the next morning -- where all uniformed and plain-clothes officers posted at MIA, would know our faces. And that, coupled with a failure to issue special S.S. "buttonaires" -- convinced us that we would instruct our team to go "unarmed" the next day at MIA.

However, Interpen Instructor, Justin Joseph "Steve" Wilson informed me -- as Air Force One taxied toward us on the tarmac; that "Little Joe" Cavendish Garman had disobeyed our orders. And that he was armed with his Colt .45 Automatic Pistol. I thereupon approached "Lil' Joe" -- informed him to casually glance to his right rear, at the "suit" wearing sunglasses. He casually did, and said: "So...who is that weirdo..??" I responded: ".. That is the guy who is going to blow the back of your head off if you draw your pistol in defense of ["Lancer"] POTUS..!!

Later that evening, Little Joe remarked at the curiousity that he, and many others had been invited to Dallas later that week to meet the "Money People" !! He refused the invitation.

The evening of November 22nd 1963, Joe C. Garman was rebuffed by James Arthur Lewis for "dancing-in-the-streets"!!

While talking to Joe during 1994 [by telephone], after not havingspoken to him since 1967 -- I commenced to remind him of some of the humorous incidents which had occurred during the 1960s. I very cautiously asked him whether he remembered having ever seen "JFK in person" ??

His reponse was: "..You getting senile Patrick ??...of course...it was at the Miami Airport a few days before he got hisself kilt..!! "...Don't you remember giving me a hard time for packing my Colt to the Airport..??

I reminded him of the "suit" having stood behind him. He responded that: "..Had I the intentions...He would have been taken down first...and the only reason I didn't shoot that son-of-a-bitch Kennedy...was because he was still my COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF" !!"

Later,

GPH

__________________________

***************************************************************************

"Cmdte. Ernest "Che" Guevara de la Serna, a true warrior who never told a lie in his life !!"

Why do you always refer to him that way? Are you being snide, or is this another one of your cryptic code messages, only known to those of the covert-ops persuasion?

--------------------------

Ms. Mauro:

I served with the man in Cuba. When I suggested [during 1959 in Havana] that he take up where he left off as a youngster [in Argentina] flying motorless gliders -- he went after flying like a demon possessed.

In very short order he had over 100 hours in a friend's [an instructor] single engine airplane. A couple of times, after watching us parachute from C-47s, he said: "...Don't ever expect me to do that stuff...flying is enough thrills for me..!!" I told him that Cmdte. [Major] Rene de los Santos was already flying left-seat in a twin engine Cessna 310; and that if he didn't get with it -- Rene was going to fill his pilot's log book up before he was even "checked-out" in a light twin.

After searching for Cmdte. Camilo Cienfuegos for 16 days, and discovering that he had been shot down by accident near San Jose del Lago, Las Villas Province -- we switched to doing some "water" parachute jumps

right in front of the Rosita de Hornedo Hotel, Miramar, Havana -- and I didn't see "Che for some weeks.

During January 1960, he arrived [with Aleda March] at my Air Base in western Pinar del Rio Province. We had no radio in the control tower, so I didn't know it was him arriving.

He popped out of the Cessna 310 [light-twin] and said someting which I couldn't make out. He always spoke in such a low voice, I would have to lean down close to listen. He repeated: "...Vos lo ves [you notice] that I am in the "left-seat" and driving this very fast and nice airplane..?" "..I have over 35 hours in the pilot seat recored in my log book already.." I almost told him he was now ready for parachute instruction, but thought better of it, and kept on talking about navigation, etc. !

He arranged for me to train the Sandinista guerrillas at my San Julian Air Base. He honored my request for reinforcements, because we had been attacked twice just after Christmas [Navidades - Noche Buena].

He got me released from La Cabana Fortress after having been arrested by limp-wristed secret police punks.

I left Cuba for Mexico enroute to fight against the Nicaraguan dictator Somoza during October 1960.

Upon learning that the Cuban authorities had jailed my close friend Cmdte. William Alexander Morgan, I opted to go north to the states on a gun-running mission -- expecting that once inside the U.S. -- I might get support enough to save William's life. Amongst those efforts was a sit-down with the famous liberal labor leader Harry Bridges [san Pedro - Los Angeles - December 1960] Harry Bridges promised to have his friends in the Latino labor movement inquire into the situation. Everything failed, and Morgan was executed on March 11th, 1961 !!

Skipping ahead to 1966. I was tasked by JJA's CI division to go to Ascension Island [british owned] and there prepare for an operation to kidnap "Che" [alive] from the Baraka, Congo [Leopoldville] area where he and many Cubans were advising the Simba rebels. However "Che" had already crossed over Lake Tanganyika and was on his way to Prague. We went back to the States [CONUS] just after July 4th, 1966.

While signing up for service in Vietnam with USAID/Public Safety -- I was once again approached to go to do the "Che" Op -- this time to Bolivia, so as to "snatch" Guevara out of there "ALIVE", or provide an aircraft for him to fly out so that we might intercept him in Uruguay, his 1st choice as "Safe-Haven".

I turned it down, and as you know, Felix and Gus tried to do that mission, but Banzer gave orders to Gary Prado to execute him. ["Code-Word 500"]

I feel today that had I gone, the outcome most likely would have resulted in his death anyway !!

Just by his diaries -- you can plainly see that this warrior never told a lie in his entire life !! He is missed terribly !! R.I.P.

I don't expert that everybody [including you] has the time to bone-up on these things. It is much easier for me [stressful also] because I was there, and I "walked-the-walk" !!

Regards,

GPH

______________________

************************************************************************

I've read his diaries, and not just the motorcycle ones, wiseguy!

"While signing up for service in Vietnam with USAID/Public Safety -- I was once again approached to go to do the "Che" Op -- this time to Bolivia, so as to "snatch" Guevara out of there "ALIVE", or provide an aircraft for him to fly out so that we might intercept him in Uruguay, his 1st choice as "Safe-Haven".

I turned it down, and as you know, Felix and Gus tried to do that mission, but Banzer gave orders to Gary Prado to execute him. ["Code-Word 500"]

I feel today that had I gone, the outcome most likely would have resulted in his death anyway !!

Just by his diaries -- you can plainly see that this warrior never told a lie in his entire life !! He is missed terribly !! R.I.P."

How could you have turned it down??? You'd even met his wife, Aleda!!!

Felix and Gus had tried to do that mission??? They killed him!!! If you respected him as much as you make out like you do, HOW COULD YOU HAVE LET HIM DIE that way???

"I feel today that had I gone, the outcome most likely would have resulted in his death anyway !!"

If you're as honorable as you claim to be, in all your bravado for the corp and the valor of your compadres, how can you believe that you couldn't have made a difference??? Or, are you simply trying to justify your refusal to go in there and help him, and the diastrous results that followed?

I have been on this forum for over a year now and very little has been said about Jim Garrison until just recently. I find it more than a little coincidental that with the release of Joan Mellen's long anticipated Garrison bio, suddenly we have several posters of questionable character, all eager to trash Garrison at every opportunity. An attempt to undermine Ms Mellen's work?

Gratz, misrepresenting what she wrote, refusing to answer questions, twisting what others write, the usual with the ex- attorney. Suddenly, the arrival of Ms Foster, chiming in from Canada, that in HER opinion Garrison only tried to undermine the investigation, and further, those of us who support Garrison are really trying to impede the investigation. Now Hemming, with his inability to write a sentence clearly enough for most of us to even bother reading.

Oh, and the always lovable Mr Purvis....who by virtue of living in, or near to, NO is a self -styled "Garrison expert".

I think all of this may come to a head before too long, and we will see what is really going on.

Stay tuned.

Dawn

This "self-styled" expert was "running in" New Orleans, probably long before you were born.

If recalled correctly, it was about 61 or 62 the first time that I ever got locked up down there during Mardi Gras and experienced the legal and judicial system.

In fact,, I once got "double cuts" in college for cutting classes as we NEVER missed a Mardi Gras in NO.

In addition, when working offshore, we always made several days in New Orleans upon returning in from the rig.

In fact, sometimes, we never even made it home, or had to call home to borrow money as NO cleaned us out.

Later years, the Playboy Club in New Orleans was a favorite hangout. And, in event you are not aware of it, (which you probably are not), it was run by one of the persons whom Jack Ruby called from Dallas.

I have relatives who reside all over and around New Orleans, and considering that it was always the closest City of any size with the many things available, those of us who had any money and a way, went there.

We came to early understand the "system" as it existed in New Orleans, as well as what one could and could not do and not be bothered by the local law.

My ex-wife's Uncle is one of those "Aristocracy" of New Orleans who has the French Descent, and as such I have witnessed first hand the political as well as social nature of the culture there.

These "ex" family members are members of such associations as the "Boston Club"; "REX", etc; etc; etc;

Tulane Graduate; "Alumni Club"; etc; ect;

In fact, in good ole "Hemming" style, when I volunteered for active duty (release from National Guard service into Regular Army active duty) in 1966, the first thing which I did was look at my bank account.

With approximately $300.00 in it, my volunteer status was "sign now", "go later".

The later was one-week later, as I figured that the $300.00 would hopefully give me one last good week in New Orleans prior to departure for active duty.

Tom

P.S. Not to mention a good friend who paid his way through medical school (Tulane) by providing abortion service to the hookers in the French Quarter.

P.P.S. The "self-styled" experts are those who sit off in other regions of the country and attempt to justify there erroneous conclusions when they in fact have less time in and know less about the social culture in New Orleans than did my younger brother who's only trip there was to be treated at Oschner's for a brain tumor.

**************************************************************************

"Later years, the Playboy Club in New Orleans was a favorite hangout. And, in event you are not aware of it, (which you probably are not), it was run by one of the persons whom Jack Ruby called from Dallas."

That's where I met Garrison, working as the Gift Shop Bunny. Funny thing, though. Whenever Garrison was scheduled to arrive at the Club, the place would clear out like someone had just yelled "FIRE!" That was in 1965.

I thought you looked familiar!

Oh! the tales that the old Playboy Club could tell were it still around.

And yes, I saw Garrison there, along with about everyone else who needed "public exposure".

Had the Saints not hung around until the A.M. in the morning of football games, they would have certainly been in better shape to have won a few more games.

Somewhere, I have the Manager's name, perhaps you will recall it, he was one of those persons in New Orleans whom Jack Ruby called from Dallas.

***************************************************************************

"Somewhere, I have the Manager's name, perhaps you will recall it, he was one of those persons in New Orleans whom Jack Ruby called from Dallas."

Somewhere I have a picture of the New Orleans General Manager, or G.M. as they were referred to, and myself, standing in front of the wall where they would put these brass placards with the V.I.P. guest's names so everyone would be able to see who was in the house at the time. I'm going to have to track down the book that I was required to make for the Sociology of Law class I was taking when I attended California State University Dominguez Hills in 1995. We had to make up these life history books [i called it a "rap sheet" book] with pictures and resumes of our work histories. If I can retrieve the book, I'll see if my friend Allen can scan the picture to John Simkin, and then maybe you'll be able to see for yourself if this is the same G.M. we're talking about. I can't recall his name off-hand, but my New York Club G.M.'s name was Richard Kirwan, and the Head of Operations and G.M. out of the Chicago club's name was Tony Roma. This was back in 1964-1966. I know that another G.M. took over the New York Club in 1967. Do you think that the New Orleans G.M. at the club in 1965 would be the same one you're referring to from 1963? As I recall, they used move them around alot between the different clubs, like every couple of years. As bunnies, we could transfer every year, if we wanted to.

Garrison did look into Marcello/Cosa Nostra connection to the assassination, Mellen shows this and I have cited a few examples in Lynne Foster's thread.

Mr. Purvis won't help you re: Garrison and Marcello. He apparently believes that Garrison was covering for some New Orleans law firm (he calls it the "Law Firm") of which one of Oswald's uncles was a member (just about the only connection between Oswald and the "Law Firm" that he has). He also believes that Oswald was the lone assassin.

"Mr. Dunbar" of the "Law Firm"

1. Attorney for United Fruit

2. Met with Colonel Barrios in reference to securing 1 million dollars for overthrow of the government of guatemala.

3. Presbyterian: (Chamberlain-Hunt Military Academy) at Port Gibson, MS (where LHO & brothers attended) is run by the Austin Presbyterian Theological Seminary, of Austin, TX. One does not normally gain admission to this school unless one (a.) is of the Presbyterian faith (b.) has money (c.) knows someone of the Presbyterian faith who has money. (the correct answer is "C".)

4. After LHO left school and joind the Marine Corps, Charles E. Dunbar, bequeathed two separate scholarship funds to the Austin Presbyterian Theological Seminary, Austin, TX. (note: I am also fully aware of his daughter's presbyterian association as a possible reason for these donations)

5. Virtually every employment position which Marguerite Oswald (& LHO) had in New Orleans, came about due to the association of members of the "Law Firm" with these employers.

Mr. "Rosen" of the Law Firm at which she began work at approximately 17 years of age was a close personal friend of Mr. Dunbar, along with being a member of about a dozen various organizations with one another.

Mr. Rosen, thereafter also being the "Registered Agent" for Dolly Show, for whom Marguerite and LHO later worked, and on and on and on, this employment history continues. Mr. Rosen was also of course the Registered Agent for a New Orleans firm owned by Mr. Joseph Bernstein. When Marguerite Claverie Oswald moved to NYC, she immediately went to work for the brother of Mr. Bernstein.

6. Mr. Dunbar, according to geneological records, is descended from the sister of General P.G. T. Beauregard of New Orleans, LA, and Commander of Troops at the first engagement of the Civil War at Ft. Sumter, SC.

7. A great-aunt of LHO was married into the same "Beauregard" family, and LHO in fact had a distant cousin who was about his age, whose name was P.G.T. Beauregard.

8. Mr. Dunbar was one of "Tulane"'s most recognized and distinguished graduates, and as a member of the "Boston Club"; REX: etc;, he was one of the most important and politically important attornies in New Orleans. He was an active member of virtually every organization of Tulane University, the alma mata of Mr. James Garrison/aka Carruthers.

9. The "Law Firm" of which Mr. Dunbar was now a full partner, was a direct-line descendent of the law firm of which Mr. Charles Fenner, in whose home President Jefferson Davis of the Confederate States of America died.

10. Mr. Charles Fenner, was a Civil War Officer and Commander of Fenner's Battery of Artillery, which fell under the "Washington Artillery", which later had it's own building constructed in the French Quarter for meetings of members of this famous Confederate Unit.

11. Mr. Charles Fenner was also father to the "Fenner" of the New Orleans Stock Brokerage firm of Pierce, Fenner, & Beane, which ultimately merged with Merrill Lynch to form Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner, & Beane.

12. The law firm of Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner, & Beane had to close their Havana, Cuba office with the assumption of power of Fidel Castro. And, not unlike many other organizations, lost considerable monies when Castro nationalized all foreign owned property in Cuba.

13. William Wirt Howe, Louisiana Supreme Court, was also a former member of the "Law Firm"

14. Along with Mr. Marks and Mr. Claverie, of the "Law Firm", Mr. Dunbar and these two other members, formed "For America" which happens to have been one of the most right-wing political entities which existed.

15. Formation of this "Front" corportion was accomplished out of a building on LaSalle St. in Chicago, ILL.

16. When LHO returned from the Soviet Union and required financial aid, he received this aid through the "Travellers Aide Society" which operated out of the exact same building in Chicago, IL as the "For America" Corporation.

17. The financial aid provided to LHO was done so a result of an "unofficial request", for whom the name of the requestee has never been made public.

18. New Orleans, LA was a major home for the "Travellers Aide Society". *

*In event one would like to know the name of the head of the New Orleans branch and the potential association with Charles E. Dunbar & the Oswald family, this information too is available.

NOW!

Tom neither resides in New Orleans, LA, or even comes close to knowing what Jim Garrison (Local resident; politician; Tulane Graduate & Alumni; District Attorney; member of various Social Organizations with these persons; etc; etc; etc; and ex-FBI Agent, should have known.

"It is an impossible task to win an argument with an ignorant and uneducated person"

Tom Purvis

P.S. The provide information is for those who at least have the capability to rationally determine for themselves as to whether the "Garrison/Clay Shaw" circus, was or was not a bona-fide search for the facts and truth.

********************************************************************************

***

8. Mr. Dunbar was one of "Tulane"'s most recognized and distinguished graduates, and as a member of the "Boston Club"; REX: etc;, he was one of the most important and politically important attornies in New Orleans. He was an active member of virtually every organization of Tulane University, the alma mata of Mr. James Garrison/aka Carruthers.

9. The "Law Firm" of which Mr. Dunbar was now a full partner, was a direct-line descendent of the law firm of which Mr. Charles Fenner, in whose home President Jefferson Davis of the Confederate States of America died.

10. Mr. Charles Fenner, was a Civil War Officer and Commander of Fenner's Battery of Artillery, which fell under the "Washington Artillery", which later had it's own building constructed in the French Quarter for meetings of members of this famous Confederate Unit.

11. Mr. Charles Fenner was also father to the "Fenner" of the New Orleans Stock Brokerage firm of Pierce, Fenner, & Beane, which ultimately merged with Merrill Lynch to form Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner, & Beane.

12. The law firm of Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner, & Beane had to close their Havana, Cuba office with the assumption of power of Fidel Castro. And, not unlike many other organizations, lost considerable monies when Castro nationalized all foreign owned property in Cuba.

13. William Wirt Howe, Louisiana Supreme Court, was also a former member of the "Law Firm"

14. Along with Mr. Marks and Mr. Claverie, of the "Law Firm", Mr. Dunbar and these two other members, formed "For America" which happens to have been one of the most right-wing political entities which existed.

15. Formation of this "Front" corportion was accomplished out of a building on LaSalle St. in Chicago, ILL.

16. When LHO returned from the Soviet Union and required financial aid, he received this aid through the "Travellers Aide Society" which operated out of the exact same building in Chicago, IL as the "For America" Corporation.

17. The financial aid provided to LHO was done so a result of an "unofficial request", for whom the name of the requestee has never been made public.

18. New Orleans, LA was a major home for the "Travellers Aide Society". *

*In event one would like to know the name of the head of the New Orleans branch and the potential association with Charles E. Dunbar & the Oswald family, this information too is available

Many conspiracy people feel that the British elites and their intel services were connected to the American Confederate elite. Therefore, from the data you have posted above, the implication of Claverie is that he was a deep cover British asset. As most likely were Locke and Purnell of Dallas. [Rhodes scholar Boren, went to work for Locke and Purnell in 1967. Locke and Purnell are a part of the ultra elite British-American Society] So, what else is new?

The "background" data as relates to the relatives of LHO & their associates is merely provided in order that those who are unfamiliar with this section of the country can get a better "grasp" on exactly "who" and "what" LHO was and a more thorough understanding of the society from which he was nurtured.

The old "nature vs. nurture" argument, if you will.

Despite the presentations, I am quite aware that also to a very high degree of probability, none of those members of the "Law Firm" had anything to do with the final act of assassination on the part of LHO.

In order to get to those who did, one must travel a considerable distance farther to the right!

One could say that "Right-Wing" introduced the assassin to "Radical Right", who thereafter took full advantage of the situation.

********************************************************************************

"Despite the presentations, I am quite aware that also to a very high degree of probability, none of those members of the "Law Firm" had anything to do with the final act of assassination on the part of LHO.

In order to get to those who did, one must travel a considerable distance farther to the right!

One could say that "Right-Wing" introduced the assassin to "Radical Right", who thereafter took full advantage of the situation."

I kind of take that as meaning "a considerable distance farther to the "right" coast", meaning the East Coast, AKA Eastern Establishment. And, you know how the rest of the story goes...right?

What is your point?

***************************************************************************8

"What is your point?"

Oh, I was writing in cryptic codes like Ger and Purv. You didn't get it? Jeez!

Garrison did look into Marcello/Cosa Nostra connection to the assassination, Mellen shows this and I have cited a few examples in Lynne Foster's thread.

Mr. Purvis won't help you re: Garrison and Marcello. He apparently believes that Garrison was covering for some New Orleans law firm (he calls it the "Law Firm") of which one of Oswald's uncles was a member (just about the only connection between Oswald and the "Law Firm" that he has). He also believes that Oswald was the lone assassin.

"Mr. Dunbar" of the "Law Firm"

1. Attorney for United Fruit

2. Met with Colonel Barrios in reference to securing 1 million dollars for overthrow of the government of guatemala.

3. Presbyterian: (Chamberlain-Hunt Military Academy) at Port Gibson, MS (where LHO & brothers attended) is run by the Austin Presbyterian Theological Seminary, of Austin, TX. One does not normally gain admission to this school unless one (a.) is of the Presbyterian faith (b.) has money (c.) knows someone of the Presbyterian faith who has money. (the correct answer is "C".)

4. After LHO left school and joind the Marine Corps, Charles E. Dunbar, bequeathed two separate scholarship funds to the Austin Presbyterian Theological Seminary, Austin, TX. (note: I am also fully aware of his daughter's presbyterian association as a possible reason for these donations)

5. Virtually every employment position which Marguerite Oswald (& LHO) had in New Orleans, came about due to the association of members of the "Law Firm" with these employers.

Mr. "Rosen" of the Law Firm at which she began work at approximately 17 years of age was a close personal friend of Mr. Dunbar, along with being a member of about a dozen various organizations with one another.

Mr. Rosen, thereafter also being the "Registered Agent" for Dolly Show, for whom Marguerite and LHO later worked, and on and on and on, this employment history continues. Mr. Rosen was also of course the Registered Agent for a New Orleans firm owned by Mr. Joseph Bernstein. When Marguerite Claverie Oswald moved to NYC, she immediately went to work for the brother of Mr. Bernstein.

6. Mr. Dunbar, according to geneological records, is descended from the sister of General P.G. T. Beauregard of New Orleans, LA, and Commander of Troops at the first engagement of the Civil War at Ft. Sumter, SC.

7. A great-aunt of LHO was married into the same "Beauregard" family, and LHO in fact had a distant cousin who was about his age, whose name was P.G.T. Beauregard.

8. Mr. Dunbar was one of "Tulane"'s most recognized and distinguished graduates, and as a member of the "Boston Club"; REX: etc;, he was one of the most important and politically important attornies in New Orleans. He was an active member of virtually every organization of Tulane University, the alma mata of Mr. James Garrison/aka Carruthers.

9. The "Law Firm" of which Mr. Dunbar was now a full partner, was a direct-line descendent of the law firm of which Mr. Charles Fenner, in whose home President Jefferson Davis of the Confederate States of America died.

10. Mr. Charles Fenner, was a Civil War Officer and Commander of Fenner's Battery of Artillery, which fell under the "Washington Artillery", which later had it's own building constructed in the French Quarter for meetings of members of this famous Confederate Unit.

11. Mr. Charles Fenner was also father to the "Fenner" of the New Orleans Stock Brokerage firm of Pierce, Fenner, & Beane, which ultimately merged with Merrill Lynch to form Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner, & Beane.

12. The law firm of Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner, & Beane had to close their Havana, Cuba office with the assumption of power of Fidel Castro. And, not unlike many other organizations, lost considerable monies when Castro nationalized all foreign owned property in Cuba.

13. William Wirt Howe, Louisiana Supreme Court, was also a former member of the "Law Firm"

14. Along with Mr. Marks and Mr. Claverie, of the "Law Firm", Mr. Dunbar and these two other members, formed "For America" which happens to have been one of the most right-wing political entities which existed.

15. Formation of this "Front" corportion was accomplished out of a building on LaSalle St. in Chicago, ILL.

16. When LHO returned from the Soviet Union and required financial aid, he received this aid through the "Travellers Aide Society" which operated out of the exact same building in Chicago, IL as the "For America" Corporation.

17. The financial aid provided to LHO was done so a result of an "unofficial request", for whom the name of the requestee has never been made public.

18. New Orleans, LA was a major home for the "Travellers Aide Society". *

*In event one would like to know the name of the head of the New Orleans branch and the potential association with Charles E. Dunbar & the Oswald family, this information too is available.

NOW!

Tom neither resides in New Orleans, LA, or even comes close to knowing what Jim Garrison (Local resident; politician; Tulane Graduate & Alumni; District Attorney; member of various Social Organizations with these persons; etc; etc; etc; and ex-FBI Agent, should have known.

"It is an impossible task to win an argument with an ignorant and uneducated person"

Tom Purvis

P.S. The provide information is for those who at least have the capability to rationally determine for themselves as to whether the "Garrison/Clay Shaw" circus, was or was not a bona-fide search for the facts and truth.

********************************************************************************

***

8. Mr. Dunbar was one of "Tulane"'s most recognized and distinguished graduates, and as a member of the "Boston Club"; REX: etc;, he was one of the most important and politically important attornies in New Orleans. He was an active member of virtually every organization of Tulane University, the alma mata of Mr. James Garrison/aka Carruthers.

9. The "Law Firm" of which Mr. Dunbar was now a full partner, was a direct-line descendent of the law firm of which Mr. Charles Fenner, in whose home President Jefferson Davis of the Confederate States of America died.

10. Mr. Charles Fenner, was a Civil War Officer and Commander of Fenner's Battery of Artillery, which fell under the "Washington Artillery", which later had it's own building constructed in the French Quarter for meetings of members of this famous Confederate Unit.

11. Mr. Charles Fenner was also father to the "Fenner" of the New Orleans Stock Brokerage firm of Pierce, Fenner, & Beane, which ultimately merged with Merrill Lynch to form Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner, & Beane.

12. The law firm of Merrill Lynch, Pierce, Fenner, & Beane had to close their Havana, Cuba office with the assumption of power of Fidel Castro. And, not unlike many other organizations, lost considerable monies when Castro nationalized all foreign owned property in Cuba.

13. William Wirt Howe, Louisiana Supreme Court, was also a former member of the "Law Firm"

14. Along with Mr. Marks and Mr. Claverie, of the "Law Firm", Mr. Dunbar and these two other members, formed "For America" which happens to have been one of the most right-wing political entities which existed.

15. Formation of this "Front" corportion was accomplished out of a building on LaSalle St. in Chicago, ILL.

16. When LHO returned from the Soviet Union and required financial aid, he received this aid through the "Travellers Aide Society" which operated out of the exact same building in Chicago, IL as the "For America" Corporation.

17. The financial aid provided to LHO was done so a result of an "unofficial request", for whom the name of the requestee has never been made public.

18. New Orleans, LA was a major home for the "Travellers Aide Society". *

*In event one would like to know the name of the head of the New Orleans branch and the potential association with Charles E. Dunbar & the Oswald family, this information too is available

Many conspiracy people feel that the British elites and their intel services were connected to the American Confederate elite. Therefore, from the data you have posted above, the implication of Claverie is that he was a deep cover British asset. As most likely were Locke and Purnell of Dallas. [Rhodes scholar Boren, went to work for Locke and Purnell in 1967. Locke and Purnell are a part of the ultra elite British-American Society] So, what else is new?

I have been on this forum for over a year now and very little has been said about Jim Garrison until just recently. I find it more than a little coincidental that with the release of Joan Mellen's long anticipated Garrison bio, suddenly we have several posters of questionable character, all eager to trash Garrison at every opportunity. An attempt to undermine Ms Mellen's work?

Gratz, misrepresenting what she wrote, refusing to answer questions, twisting what others write, the usual with the ex- attorney. Suddenly, the arrival of Ms Foster, chiming in from Canada, that in HER opinion Garrison only tried to undermine the investigation, and further, those of us who support Garrison are really trying to impede the investigation. Now Hemming, with his inability to write a sentence clearly enough for most of us to even bother reading.

Oh, and the always lovable Mr Purvis....who by virtue of living in, or near to, NO is a self -styled "Garrison expert".

I think all of this may come to a head before too long, and we will see what is really going on.

Stay tuned.

Dawn

This "self-styled" expert was "running in" New Orleans, probably long before you were born.

If recalled correctly, it was about 61 or 62 the first time that I ever got locked up down there during Mardi Gras and experienced the legal and judicial system.

In fact,, I once got "double cuts" in college for cutting classes as we NEVER missed a Mardi Gras in NO.

In addition, when working offshore, we always made several days in New Orleans upon returning in from the rig.

In fact, sometimes, we never even made it home, or had to call home to borrow money as NO cleaned us out.

Later years, the Playboy Club in New Orleans was a favorite hangout. And, in event you are not aware of it, (which you probably are not), it was run by one of the persons whom Jack Ruby called from Dallas.

I have relatives who reside all over and around New Orleans, and considering that it was always the closest City of any size with the many things available, those of us who had any money and a way, went there.

We came to early understand the "system" as it existed in New Orleans, as well as what one could and could not do and not be bothered by the local law.

My ex-wife's Uncle is one of those "Aristocracy" of New Orleans who has the French Descent, and as such I have witnessed first hand the political as well as social nature of the culture there.

These "ex" family members are members of such associations as the "Boston Club"; "REX", etc; etc; etc;

Tulane Graduate; "Alumni Club"; etc; ect;

In fact, in good ole "Hemming" style, when I volunteered for active duty (release from National Guard service into Regular Army active duty) in 1966, the first thing which I did was look at my bank account.

With approximately $300.00 in it, my volunteer status was "sign now", "go later".

The later was one-week later, as I figured that the $300.00 would hopefully give me one last good week in New Orleans prior to departure for active duty.

Tom

P.S. Not to mention a good friend who paid his way through medical school (Tulane) by providing abortion service to the hookers in the French Quarter.

P.P.S. The "self-styled" experts are those who sit off in other regions of the country and attempt to justify there erroneous conclusions when they in fact have less time in and know less about the social culture in New Orleans than did my younger brother who's only trip there was to be treated at Oschner's for a brain tumor.

**************************************************************************

"Later years, the Playboy Club in New Orleans was a favorite hangout. And, in event you are not aware of it, (which you probably are not), it was run by one of the persons whom Jack Ruby called from Dallas."

That's where I met Garrison, working as the Gift Shop Bunny. Funny thing, though. Whenever Garrison was scheduled to arrive at the Club, the place would clear out like someone had just yelled "FIRE!" That was in 1965.

By all means, hold out hope that Gerry may actually reveal something of significance. But if an when that happens, dollars to donuts, it'll be unintentional.

This, in particular, is why I usually read these posts with interest(and suspicion). You never know what may inadvertantly come out.

Gerry posted this comment 8/27/05:

"The day of the JFK assassination, Jim Lewis was [as usual] playing Chess at "Little Joe's" apartment by the Miami River -- together with Eddy Collins, "Skinny", Dick Whatley, Bobby Willis, and Bill Dempsey. When Garman started dancing in the street soon after hearing the news from Dallas, Jim chastized him severely [along with Cuban pissed-off neighbors]; He reminded him that just four days before he had been a member of our security detail for JFK at MIA [Monday, 18th Nov.], and that he had been prepared to "take-a-bullet" for the President !!"

Anyone else think it odd that Garman would "dance in the street" after hearing of JFK's demise, yet was "prepared to take a bullet" for him 4 days earlier?

I wouldn't dismiss EVERYTHING GHP has to say.

RJS

--------------------------

Richard J:

Has "anybody" ever read a posting by "The Village Idiot" -- you know, one which might be construed as "Intentional" and "something of SIGNIFICANCE ??!!

Try as I might, I haven't found anything submitted by this nagging gadfly heckling xxxxx -- mayhaps one of the more "studious" members might discover same and re-post something ??

During the briefing for the MIA security detail [11/17/63] -- the day before JFK's scheduled arrival [Monday, 18th November 1963] the following individuals were in attendance:

Bernardo de Torres

"Nick" Navarro -- then with the Federal Bureau of Narcotics (Chas. Siragusa unit] and later Sheriff of Broward County, Forida -- and a childhood friend of Felix Rodriguez, who, along with CIA agent Gustavo Villoldo, aided in training the Bolivian Rangers [w/ Green Beret Major "Pappy" Shelton, 8th SFGrp - Panama Canal Zone] and whom together, hunted down and murdered Cmdte. Ernest "Che" Guevara de la Serna, a true warrior who never told a lie in his life !!

Special Agent Ernesto Aragon, U.S. Secret Service, and whose reports are to be found in the Warren Commission Documents.

Special Agent-in-Charge Gene Michaels, Head of the Miami Office of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics, who two months later [at the beginning of the WC] was framed by a drug sting, and sent to the Federal Medical Facilty, Springfield, MO.

Gerald P. "Gerry Patrick" Hemming, Jr. [interPen]

Howard K. "Davy" Davis [interPen]

Detective Sgt. Anthony "Tony" Fontana [City of Miami Police Dept.] and one of the cops who identified the corpse of Eladio "Gito" Del Valle[1967]. I was permitted to verify the I.D. of "Gito" only after insisting that the N.O. D.A., "Jim" Garrison had a severe interest in the deceased !! Upon retirement, Fontana served regularly as Chairman of the Florida Parole Commission through the 1980s.

Deputy Sheriff Lloyd Hough [Dade County Sheriff's Dept. -- under the then Sheriff & Brig. Gen. Tom Kelly] who during the mid-1970s attempted to thwart our investigation of the World Finance Corp.!! WFC was founded by Hernandez Cartaya -- while he was busy founding BCCI type banks in the United Arab Emirates -- and was subsequently charged with absconding with almost $100 million+.

Hough was later laterally transfer to the Dade Co. Fire Dept. while under a cloud of corruption linked to a Cuban County Commissioner. Hough, during the 1990s, and by then in charge of Fire Service Internal Affairs, blackballed my son Felipe from being hired by said Dept.!! And this, despite already serving some 14 years as a professional Firefighter/EMT. And this despite the fact that Felipe Vidal Santiago Hemming had risen to #9 on a list of 300+ accepted applicants. [Only #9 -- due to the fact that extra points were given to the top 8 for lateral transfer from other NON-fire fighting Dade jobs. Otherwise, and with military service points, he would have ranked #1 !!

And others present unknown to either of us, but recognized as JM/WAVE CIA Officers. That is: save for CIA Officer David Morales, who having had words with me after the BOP; spent his time glaring in my direction !!

Suspicious that we were NOT invited to a "face-time" roll-call the next morning -- where all uniformed and plain-clothes officers posted at MIA, would know our faces. And that, coupled with a failure to issue special S.S. "buttonaires" -- convinced us that we would instruct our team to go "unarmed" the next day at MIA.

However, Interpen Instructor, Justin Joseph "Steve" Wilson informed me -- as Air Force One taxied toward us on the tarmac; that "Little Joe" Cavendish Garman had disobeyed our orders. And that he was armed with his Colt .45 Automatic Pistol. I thereupon approached "Lil' Joe" -- informed him to casually glance to his right rear, at the "suit" wearing sunglasses. He casually did, and said: "So...who is that weirdo..??" I responded: ".. That is the guy who is going to blow the back of your head off if you draw your pistol in defense of ["Lancer"] POTUS..!!

Later that evening, Little Joe remarked at the curiousity that he, and many others had been invited to Dallas later that week to meet the "Money People" !! He refused the invitation.

The evening of November 22nd 1963, Joe C. Garman was rebuffed by James Arthur Lewis for "dancing-in-the-streets"!!

While talking to Joe during 1994 [by telephone], after not havingspoken to him since 1967 -- I commenced to remind him of some of the humorous incidents which had occurred during the 1960s. I very cautiously asked him whether he remembered having ever seen "JFK in person" ??

His reponse was: "..You getting senile Patrick ??...of course...it was at the Miami Airport a few days before he got hisself kilt..!! "...Don't you remember giving me a hard time for packing my Colt to the Airport..??

I reminded him of the "suit" having stood behind him. He responded that: "..Had I the intentions...He would have been taken down first...and the only reason I didn't shoot that son-of-a-bitch Kennedy...was because he was still my COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF" !!"

Later,

GPH

__________________________

***************************************************************************

"Cmdte. Ernest "Che" Guevara de la Serna, a true warrior who never told a lie in his life !!"

Why do you always refer to him that way? Are you being snide, or is this another one of your cryptic code messages, only known to those of the covert-ops persuasion?

xxxxx ALERT!!!!! ABONDON HOPE ALL YE WHO ENTER HERE.

Just for the record youv'e proved NOTHING, except your own strange hang up with Garrison.

Please people, no more post's on this thread. let it slowly fade to grey.

***********************************************************

Please people, no more post's on this thread. let it slowly fade to grey.

You're absolutely right, Stephen. This is nothing more than a feeding frenzy for these trolls.

We'd be better off allowing them to crash and burn on their own.

I just love these Emoticons!

Well, I have to get to work right now. Check back with you this evening, on the Murgado thread, of course.

Ter

---------------------------

"ALPHA MIKE FOXTROT" Ye of the great hot flatulent winds.

We'll miss you so velly mucho !! NOT !!

The Galls' stones -- the Pot-Trolls calling the newbie kettle a xxxxx.

The Kostner worshipers from afar -- the "Garrison Groupie Glee Club" has finally bid us fond adieu !!

Lynne -- Never fear whilst the genuine seekers of truth remain onboard -- even should they only be "lurking" !!

"....Don't you realize the damge you've done..??" [Cliff Robertson to Redford in "3 Days of the Condor"]

"...Don't you know how you have hurt da poor widdle feewins of the "Big Gumbo/Jimbo/Kostner" group glee club ??!! Shame! Shame! My fat gut is aching from laughing right now.

Adios MoFos -- see ya on Murgado, pictures at 11:00 PM news !!

Keep on trucking Lynne,

GPH

_________________________

****************************************************************

"...Don't you know how you have hurt da poor widdle feewins of the "Big Gumbo/Jimbo/Kostner" group glee club ??!! Shame! Shame! My fat gut is aching from laughing right now."

What's with bringing Kostner's name into this? He was merely an actor. Anyone who's ever met Garrison is aware of the fact of how miscast Kostner was in that role. He was far from the most convincing choice for the portrayal of a person of Garrison's stature. I would have considered someone of a more seasoned caliber, such as a Sam Waterston, or a Jerry Orbach to have been a far superior facimile, as well as having the stage presence to carry the role. Gregory Peck would have been even better, but alas, was too old by that time.

Hey Ger, too bad you couldn't have taken better care of yourself. Your fat gut will be the death of you.

Too many cheerios and quaker oats, I suppose. Though it looks more like Eggs Benedict, to me.

xxxxx ALERT!!!!! ABONDON HOPE ALL YE WHO ENTER HERE.

Just for the record youv'e proved NOTHING, except your own strange hang up with Garrison.

Please people, no more post's on this thread. let it slowly fade to grey.

***********************************************************

Please people, no more post's on this thread. let it slowly fade to grey.

You're absolutely right, Stephen. This is nothing more than a feeding frenzy for these trolls.

We'd be better off allowing them to crash and burn on their own.

I just love these Emoticons!

Well, I have to get to work right now. Check back with you this evening, on the Murgado thread, of course.

Ter

Steve,

It's quite clear she's only here because of JOan Mellen's new book. She has NOTHING to say on the assassination of JFK. SHe cites known disinfo people like Epstein. And to say that we are trying to "obscure the truth about the assassinaion of John F> Kennedy" is such a vile absurd comment, it did not warrant a response.

It's clear she has not the slightest interest in this case, only smearing Garrison. If we all ignore her she WILL go away. Internet trolls come and go.

Dawn

What on earth are you talking about. Jim Garrison was a certified crackpot, and I have relied on his words to prove that.

As far as I am concerned, Jim Garrison has obstructed justice by covering up the truth about the assassination of John F. Kennedy, and your peculiar obsession with a person who is trying to resuscitate the reputation of a disgraced prosecutor is very strange, to say the least.

Next, you'll be promoting some peculiar book that seeks to rescusitate the reputation of a fool like Ken Starr, like Jim Garrison, he too has his obsessibve, apologists.

If you think I'm here because of some person that I just recently heard of, keep it to yourself because it's not true and unless it is your intention to misrepresent things here, I'd stick to what you are in a position to prove.

*************************************************************************

"What on earth are you talking about. Jim Garrison was a certified crackpot, and I have relied on his words to prove that."

Excuse me, Ms. Dulles, but the only certifiable crackpot seems to be you and the rest of your cheerleader "girls". Got that Ger? Got that Purv?

Exit, Stage Left...

Unfortunately, in my experience, the Internet is becoming a major source of disinformation. I think the following story illustrates how easy it is to create the false impression that a crackpot like Jim Garrison was dedicated to authentic research into the JFK Assassination:

WASHINGTON, D.C. (United News Service) -- The George W. Bush Campaign's strategy to get their message out to the nations internet chat rooms and message boards appears to be a huge success. Edward Straight, chairman of Bush's internet operations staff, said his organization's latest research shows that fully 80 percent of messages favorable to Bush on Bush message boards are put there by paid staff of the Bush Campaign. Upwards of 40 percent of pro-Bush messages posted on other non-Bush controlled boards are posted by hired Bush public relations personnel, Straight said.

The entire operation is run out of basement offices in a downtown Pittsburgh, Pa. bank, Straight reports. "the cost advantages of this kind of campaign are enormous," said Straight. "For a few hundred thousand dollars we have been able to hire nearly 400 internet users to repost our campaign materials and to maintain a presence on all message boards."

"Make no mistake about it," Straight said, "The postings you see extolling and defending the candidacy of George W. Bush Jr. are not for the most part posted by amateurs -- they're paid professional and there are a lot of them. We think they're doing a bang up job."

He said the first goal of Bush public relations staff is to post a lot of messages. "The paid posters thus make it seem as though there is overwhelming support for the candidate," We have the money to bury the opposition and we're prepared to shovel tons of it into the effort," he said. The second major goal of the Bush Internet 2000 team is to smear President Clinton and Vice President Gore and, increasingly, Bill Bradley, Straight said. "We'd also like them to go after the other candidate's posters and rough them up a little bit to show them that we mean business," added Straight.

By the way, where does Joan Mellen get off crediting Jim Garrison with this:

"Garrison began by exposing the contradictions in the Warren Report, which concluded that Lee Harvey Oswald was an unstable pro-Castro Marxist who acted alone in killing President Kennedy. "

Jay Epstein discredited the Warren Report in "Inquest" is she also going to give him credit for inventing the Internet?

Even Jim Garrison disputes Joan Mellen:

GARRISON: No, please don't put words in my mouth. The works of the critics --- particularly Edward Epstein, Harold Weisberg and Mark Lane --- sparked my general doubts about the assassination; but more importantly, they led me into specific areas of inquiry.

************************************************************************

Couldn't help but notice that the last 3 posts were made by Ms. Lynne Foster Dulles, all to herself, alone.

I guess that's what happens when you keep blowin' the same song out yer ass. It falls on dull ears, after awhile.

Now catch that thread on Murgado. It really cooks!

Just breezin' through.

Pissin in the wind, love it dawn LOL, BTW didn't dylan record that?

********************************************************

"Pissin in the wind, love it dawn LOL, BTW didn't dylan record that?"

Hi Stephen,

No, Dylan's was "Blowin' In The Wind". It was Jim Croce who penned the words:

"You don't tug on Superman's cape. You don't piss into the wind. You don't pull the mask off the old Long Ranger. And, you don't mess around with Jim."

And, you can call me the breeze, cause I'm outta here!

Sorry, I just couldn't resist that, folks. ;o)

KUDOS TO THE CIA FOR INVESTIGATING JIM GARRISON.

Sounds spirited to me. The fact that you would dismiss the CIA's connections to the assassination as "preposterous" says a lot about the opinion you hold them in.

Also, please explain how the FBI's stonewalling and wiretaping of Garrison fit into your "Hoover is behind Garrison" scenario.

I know I'm just kicking at the pricks here, but refuting you has become such an effortless action at this point.

I think everything is relative. Compared to the wholesale assault on the CIA, a single sentence is a rather muted response.

As for the FBI, even J. Edgar Hoover could not control all his agents. If there were a number of "spirited" ones who investigated Garrison the hoaxter, kudos to them as well.

As far as I am concerned, Garrison was useless because he did not even prove Oswald's innocence. Instead, David Ferrie died in his custody.

I am sure that J. Edgar Hoover did not have to investigate Garrison, he was too busy investigating real, Kennedy assassination investigators. He didn't bother with a hoaxster like Garrison because he knew what he was all about.

I really do not understand all this hero-worship regarding Jim Garrison, maybe you are all Kevin Costner fans or something... but don't expect me to get on your bandwagon.

------------------------------

Ms. Lynne:

You got real close to getting it right. I have been a member of the South Florida Research Group for many years. One of the leading members is a co-founder of C.O.P.A. along with John Judge. However, I am not so sure about Judge sometimes, he reminds me of quite a few seemingly intelligent and skilled researchers [but not skilled pro-Invstigators of the Fonzi class] -- but somewhere along the line they have found it either convenient or urgent to team up with some very strange folks -- and since I include myself as strange; I know them well !!

Oftentimes they have reached the "burnout point" [as John Newman told me years ago -- had happened to him]; so they network with people that operate on their "wavelength" -- which some "shrinks" claim is a form of "holding on to their Linus blankets".

Some indeed actually do see Kostner as the "real" Garrison, and because they never dealt with the actual man; they quickly become "music" and "movie star" groupies. Much of this is quite positive, as close friends [and many on this forum] only began their quest because of Oliver Stone's courage in undertaking the filming of "JFK". While I was working on the movie, I had arguments with folks who had worked on other films with Stone -- were almost family to him; but ranted that: "....This whole project is a bunch of phony bullxxxx!!"

I first thought, yeah guys, your just probing to see if I am a "team player"; and this is your technique for uncovering dissidents or disgruntled employees who might want to do a "Lardner" and sabotage the "Camelot Project". WRONG !! They were then, and remain today, convinced that "JFK" is totally fiction; outrageously absurd, and edifies a probably corrupt and mentally disturbed publicity seeker.

Two of these folks joined us from having just finished putting "Backdraft" in the can, and I was a bit upset that they, having arrived just few some weeks into filming, had quickly formulated any opinion at all. I later discovered that working with the Chicago Fire Department, and seeing famous actors doing their own very dangerous stunts ["Gags"]; they must have expected a more serious-faced crowd on the lots and sets.

Maybe they had other reasons, but one still owes me a "Backdraft" black T-shirt !!

I have received dozens of e-mails from people who "lurk", and members who post. Some forward articles of a psychology 101 nature, which I have trouble relating to; while others send items such as: the "Internet xxxxx" article; which I found easy to read and grasp. However, as I stated in a different thread, somehow the wrong party was being identified as "Trolling" -- but, then again -- I might just be misinterpreting things.

Others have put it more simply: You have people that are obviously very bright, and who have invested enormous amounts of time [and money]; and what do they face? More questions than answers. So, they take the easy way out -- enough is enough, I've arrived at a definite conclusion; here is what happened to JFK, and here is who did it, and here is the WHY !!

Hell, both petit and grand juries do it all the time -- the "O.J. Case" is the classic example. However, many forget that the burden is on the prosecution in a criminal case.

And that burden is to "prove-guilt-beyond-a-reasonable-doubt"!!

Moreover, the defendant doesn't have to "prove" anything. Using the term "found innocent" is a misnomer, nobody is EVER found innocent -- they are found "Not Guilty"; and innocence has nothing to do with the case at all. The prosecution failed to "prove" its case to the jurors [or judge in a Bench trial] that its case was proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Some of the CT researcher/writer/groupie element have long ago cast their ballots for "Guilty on all counts", but when queried [as some jurors are on 60 minutes, etc.] they fail to explicate or expound upon what was the crucial piece(s) of evidence which convinced you to vote out "Guilty" ?? Or, what was the admixture of singular pieces of evidence [which includes testimony not stricken as hearsay] and after finally having been thrown together, swung your vote -- that is: if you didn't lie on voire dire that you had no bias or preconceived notions of guilt ??

So far, for over 40 years, I have yet to see, or hear for that matter: any of their alleged solid evidence!! Just endless speculation and wild guesswork theorems. And whose fault is that, pray tell ?? Why you know, it's all a gigantic cover-up by hundreds of Cabals [not just individuals or entities]; but seeming "Cartels" of evil demons who have conspired, one with the other, to commit horrendous crimes -- and then blatantly proceed to cover it all up with lies and thousands of shredding machines !!

Evidence ?? One scribbler confabulates "insider" [almost whistle-blower level] tips in a tabloid, a magazine, a book, and shortly thereafter; more scribblers hit their keyboard and repeat the same "evidence", but with more page-filling embellishments. And once again another "Eric Brockevitch" clone is off to save the world.

My feeble conclusions, albeit rather limited in scope -- don't want to keep you up all night.

The first major myth: The CIA [per the 1947 statutes, as later amended] "expliciitly" states a prohibition against "investigating U.S. Citizens, especially those who are domiciled within the U.S., its Territories, and Possessions.

WRONG !! The whole of the CIA "charter" forbids investigations for "law enforcement purposes", and this has been unchanged -- even after the passage of the P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act. Even Congress has shown displeasure with that last "catch-all" caveat in the Charter: "...and other matters of which the President shall so direct"!!

But, they have never seen fit to repeal or amend those few words. Far too many people, with absolutely not even the barest grasp of either law or government -- rant that: "...It is all a conspiracy !!" Could be, but I am still awaiting that sworn conclusive testimony and other evidence which proves same.

The CIA does exactly what the President directs it to do, and oftentimes this is amended via the National Security Council; just as the statutes command.

An old phrase comes to mind; '...There are no bad Regiments...only bad Colonels". If the CIA violates its charter under orders, than file a "Bill of Impeachment" in the House of Representatives" -- even Cynthia McKinney knows how to type one up !!

Finally, pay no mind to the real TROLLS, and continue with any iconoclastic missives; and don't feel sorry or pity for the gullible idol worshipers; you didn't force them to buy the wrong books, or listen to the bullxxxx artists, they screwed up -- TOUGH !!

From one who is: "....the prime suspect [along with his buddies] in this whole matter"...er.. for a while I thought that I was the guy that Posner described as "self-interposing into a matter not related to him at all".

Even the ad hominems are confusing and contradictory -- Imagine that.

Keep on truckin'

Gerry Hemming

__________________________

*********************************************************************

"While I was working on the movie, I had arguments with folks who had worked on other films with Stone -- were almost family to him; but ranted that: "....This whole project is a bunch of phony bullxxxx!!"

I first thought, yeah guys, your just probing to see if I am a "team player"; and this is your technique for uncovering dissidents or disgruntled employees who might want to do a "Lardner" and sabotage the "Camelot Project". WRONG !! They were then, and remain today, convinced that "JFK" is totally fiction; outrageously absurd, and edifies a probably corrupt and mentally disturbed publicity seeker."

Well, maybe you missed your calling, Mr. Big Shot. If you're an "actor" maybe you should've stayed in Hollyweird. But, if you're an actor, then you're nothing more than a faker. If anyone's a corrupt and mentally disturbed publicity seeker, it's yourself! So, why don't you go ride off into the sunset with Foster, and the rest of your fascist cohorts, to the tune of "Bonanza". Showboater!

My apologies to the rest of the forum. I'm writing myself out of this thread.

My defense of the CIA is not spirited. I merely pointed out the fact that the CIA has the right to defend against preposterous allegations.

I wish you people would stop distorting everything, you are beginning to sound just like Jim Garrison.

*******************************************************

My friend Dixie is having trouble posting on Simkins' forum since he had the software reconfigured. She uses webtv and it's not responding to the new software. She asked me to post this under the Garrison thread for her.

I have asked Terry to post this for me, since my own system won't work

right. and i am unable to do so!

Ms Lynne

I have read this entire thread, some of the posts, including yours, more

then once. I do not really understand where you are coming from

except that the mention of trolls came to my mind.

Now there are some things in regard to Jim Garrison that most of us can

agree on. I have also been reading Joan Mellon's new book. I had not

actually noticed this before, but from what she says, I am frankly

rather disgusted with what was Garrison's personal life. But, as one of

my researcher friends, who is also a poster in this thread told me, his

personal life was not a part of his professional life or what he was

trying to accomplish with the JFK Assn. investigation....in other words,

his personal life was none of our business..:-)

I do believe as most will agree, Garrison did make mistakes, even some

bad mistakes. However, from what all I have read, his intentions were

most honorable. What I do see that also occurred, is that he was

surrounded by turkeys and wart-hogs, with obvious agendas. This is only

an opinion, which some may disagree, but it would seem that Garrison,

had a knack for trusting and believing the wrong people...perhaps

because he was so gung-ho, in his endeavors. A lot of bad press about

Garrison, was the result then and is still with us today. Of course that

leads right into your own opinions about Garrison.

Lynne, many here have addressed your issues with Garrison. It is alright

to have a different viewpoint then everyone else and even to express

them. It is also alright for us to disagree with you However, I have

also noticed that some, particularly Bernice, has gone out of her way

to look for some answers to back up her beliefs about Garrison. Bernice

is not content to simply say, "I think" or "I believe." So many of your

own posts are full of "I think" or "I believe." Frankly, no one really

cares what you think or believe, Where is your documentation, to back up

your thinks and beliefs? What is even worse, you even redicule someones

honest efforts, by calling it boring!!! So evidently, your intentions

are not to actually learn anything that maybe you did not previously

know about...or heaven forbid, would cause you to actually look at

something that might actually change your opinions. Even I read both pro

and con of many JFK research issues, before having my own opinions.

..

Obviously, you will not even look at anything except what might endorse

your own prejudices against Garrison. I know you will disregard my post

too! Problem is that I do not even know why any of us has even bothered

to respond to you...like who really cares what you think or believe?

Why then, did I post this message? That would be a good question, but I

suppose I just wanted to stick my 2 3/4 cent nose in, just as everyone

else has done. Afterall, this thread has become sorta like a parlor game

where we each take a turn, swatting at the fly....or is it the xxxxx?

;-)

__________________

Dixie

Did you know the USA is the only western country without some form of universal health care?

I was surprised to read the other day that they don't even have anything close to universal health care in "Communist" China. I believe it was an article in Newsweek, said that poor people in China don't even bother trying to go to a hospital, because you have to bribe the doctors and poor people don't have the money. I thought that "to each according to his need" was supposed to be one of the benefits of Communism. (I should add, though, that I don't really trust anything I read in Newsweek or Time, which like all the establishment media are purveyors of U.S. government propaganda, including "Oswald did it.")

****************************************************************************

"I was surprised to read the other day that they don't even have anything close to universal health care in "Communist" China. I believe it was an article in Newsweek, said that poor people in China don't even bother trying to go to a hospital, because you have to bribe the doctors and poor people don't have the money."

Well, they can't very well call it "Communized" Medicine, Ron. All kidding aside. But seriously, it sure sounds alot like what's happening here, in the good old US of A. Especially, for the medically indigent who end up being blotted up off our mean "streets paved with gold", brought into the E.R.s, patched up, and thrown back out on the streets, after not being able to furnish a medical benefits card [i.e.: BCBS, Aetna, Healthnet, Pacificare], or an HMO [Healthy Members Only] card. Also, remember how economically backward the Peoples' Republic of China was compared to the U.S.S.R. bloc, which must have resembled more like living in the lap of luxury, compared the legacy Mao left to the P.R.C. Now that they've gone capitalist, perhaps they'll be able to perFect a form of Socialized Medicine more conducive to a universal model that would be beneficial to all of mankind. I have hopes for the Asians.

Anglo-Saxon-Indo-Europeans may have had the brute force with which to physically conquer the world, but the Asians have always been smarter intellectually, and will rule in the end. Remember their motto, "Don't get mad, get even."

As for Newsweek, Time-Life...think, Mockingbird.

Cubela, a medical doctor, was certainly intelligent enough to understand that it was most unlikely that request would be honored. But my suspicion is Cubela was acting on behalf of Castro and that Fitzgerald's assurances to him were recorded.

The above evades the basic point: if Cubela was sufficiently suspicious and/or investigative to demand a meeting with RFK, why would his inability to obtain the requisite meeting be interpreted as Kennedy approval? What did FitzGerald have to offer that would provide assurance of Kennedy complicity? It couldn't be the easily proven lie that FitzGerald was a senator.

A while back, Tim Gratz asserted that there was a critical timing involved that demonstrated RFK's actual support for the Cubela initiative. He claimed that RFK's phone logs reveal that he had contact with FitzGerald the same day that FitzGerald met with Cubela in October, 1963. I have still seen no evidence of this. It's in this cognitive dissonance that Tim's right-wing bias is demonstrated.

Tim

Tim: I'd like to see some proof for your views: precisely some proof to refute what Tim C has written above.

Excellent points.

Bu we all know that Tim avoids/evades all our questions. It must be difficult to be a rightwinger on a forum about who killed JFK. I admire Tim for trying, actually. I think he puts us with US because no one else on the right gives a xxxx about the truth in this case and Tim sees that so he gravitates to a place where people obviously care and that's more important than that we all at odds with him about our personal/ political /philosophical bent.

Dawn

**********************************************************************

To all concerned:

Would it be possible for those posting with the same first name, if you could add your

surname initial, as well? For example: Tim C. or Tim G.

The reason I ask is that even though your full surname appears at the beginning of a post, by the time a thread has been added to and responded to, unless you travel back up to the top, you might make the mistake of forgetting which one of the Tims is stating his views, or which one of the Tims is being referred to.

Also, when making reference to, or in differentiating between the two Tims, if the poster would take the opportunity to add each of the Tims' surname initial, would be helpful as well. Por favor?

But then again, one could always use surnames only, I suppose.

Thanks,

Ter

Anyone but me noticing that it's a bit hard to follow Hemming's posts.? Strange writing style....coupled with diminished interest on my part ... wish Tosh would come back and put another face to this. Hey Tim (Carroll), since Tosh isn't posting for the time, perhaps you can represent his viewpoint.

I don't represent anyone's viewpoint but my own.

Tim

*******************************************************

"I don't represent anyone's viewpoint but my own.

Tim"

An honorable answer.

Gerry,

It seems to me that what you are saying could be the reason Johnson as president vetoed the "blame it on Castro" part of the JFK plot. I believe that Johnson was in on, or had foreknowledge of, the assassination, knew that Castro didn't do it, and didn't want the problems that blaming it on Castro would create.

The one big problem for Johnson (how to become president and stay out of prison) had been taken care of. I'm sure it was with relief that he promptly opted for the lone-nut scenario, against the wishes of CIA and military folks whom he figured he could pacify by giving them (and his fat-cat Texas friends) the Vietnam War.

Ron

-----------------------------

Ron:

NO ! That is NOT what I'm saying !! Now you are borderline mimicking what too many over eager scribblers have "quoted" me as "saying, stating, alleging, swearing, farting and mumbling".

I understood you to say that Johnson knew there were still nuclear weapons in Cuba. I suggested that if that is true, that may be why Johnson wanted to leave Castro alone. How did this misquote you?

------------------------------

Ron:

"Borderline mimicking" is the operative statement. Your merging of your "belief" that LBJ "knew" [for certain?] that a nuke threat remained with Cuba [solo] within the same paragraph, congruent with your inculpations of guilt, foreknowledge, acquiesence, etc. would cause the reader to believe that I had made an identical statement or this was a paraphrasing of same. Not starting a new paragraph with an "however" [for example] would have indicated that your "quote" was in agreement, but with a caveated addendum or correction.

I failed English in high school [1st year], so I shouldn't be heard to bitch too loudly !!

Permit me to restate: That LBJ knew for certain ??, and "Whiz-kid" MacNamara didn't "know for certain" as to nukes armed and ready, or stored, or deactivated -- I've not spoken with anyone who claims that LBJ had the "perfect" inside Intel scoop. In Havana, 1992, "Slack-Mac" stated that his belief during 1962, and until the Soviet statements during his meetings, believed that the nukes had never arrived "inside" Cuba.

The singular evidence is that LBJ's administration took specific measures in "attempts" to verify absence or presence of nukes, and their delivery capabilities. The Thermo-nukes were wired for delivery ONLY by the Iluyshins being reassembled at the air base which I had commanded until mid-1960. [b.A.M. San Julian, Pinar del Rio Province [western], Cuba. The T/Nukes could NOT be launched by IRBMs, MRBMs, submarines, or ships. Part of the modules required for the prepping, arming, targeting, and launching the T/Nukes were copies of our AN/ARN-21 Navigation/Prepping/Guidance/Delivery computer [transisterized].

The PIC ["Pilot-in-Command"] and the Bombardier would make the ultimate decision of the weapons delivery method , e.g.: "Over-the-Shoulder" or "Forward Pitch" [i'll skip the Mil/terms for same].

The options would have been:

[1] If targeting Washinton, D.C., NYC, etc. -- the distances needed to be flown would have precluded "slipping-under-the-radar while penetrating the A.D.I.Z. ["Air Defense Identification Zone"] which began at "24 North Latitude" & wrapped around Florida and up the east coast at an average of 30 miles offshore; because this low altitude flight would have consumed all of their fuel by Richmond, Virginia.

Therefore, the bombers would have been forced to "sneak-under" till Georgia, and thereafter pose as a commercial cargo or passenger jet flight at above 20,000 feet msl till target IP. Jets are designed to fly at high altitudes. "Down-on-the-deck" usually burns 10 times the fuel rate, which means that fuel cells would have had to be installed inside the bomb bays to even get close.

Op/Sec would have required that a decoy aircraft launch from within Georgia and coordinated with the bombers ETAs. [a light twin with large radar reflectors onboard, plus ECM gear -- to impersonate a medium commercial bird when they popped up on FAA and/or NORAD radar screens south of Atlanta] ALL aircraft cruising above flight level 20 circa 1962 would have to be on an FAA approved IFR "Flight Plan" [it is 12,000 ft. now]

It would have been highly irregular for a large jet to file the flight plan in the air as is done by light aircraft, but filing under VFR ONLY ["Visual Flight Rules"] -- and this is permitted because many small airplanes launch from airports without control towers or telephones, or farmer's fields. [oftentimes the VFR pilot will telephone from home and be permitted to takeoff with a specified "time-window", or file no flight whatsoever. This is not the case with Jets]

[2] Targeting the B-47 SAC bases at McDill AFB [Tampa] and Homestead AFB [Miami] would NOT have been a decapitating blow, but would have permitted low-level surprise and short-range attacks;

[3] The preferred routing for the eastern seaboard would have been a decoy Int' flight plan via Bermuda,

and after passing D.C. or NYC; doubling back for a low-level "over-the-shoulder" or "forward-pitch" delivery maneuver. Because all of the FAA/NORAD radars would have been "fried" by EMP, the crews could continue on to secure landing sites in Canada. This would avoid a "one-way-Kamikaze" mission crew state of mind; which might have encouraged their aborting the operations before weapons delivery IP;

[4] The high altitude dropping requires the bomber to remain within the "Victor Airways" [VOR highways in the sky] and be subjected to the FAA rules requiring the radio reporting of "station passage" and ETAs of "Next Waypoint". Moreover, even at high altitude the bombers dropping T/Nukes would have suffered severe EMP "frying" and radiation, as the Soviets had not then perfected "Iron-Clad" models; and,

[5] High altitude dropping might have risked the above-mententioned aborting. Since their bomb-bays were not pressurized, the weapons would have been subjected to below freezing temperatures above 15,000 feet msl [temperate zone freezing level]; so the AN/ARN-12- type module incorporates such things as "Guidance Fin De-frosters" warming up the weapon some time before dropping. The T/Nukes had J/DAM type guidance fins, and if frozen -- would go astray.

"Over-the-shoulder" means a manuver where the bomber passes abeam of the target, executes a computer controlled "inside loop" headed back towards the target, and at a critical point the computer releases the weapon, and the bomber completes the loop back to "on-the-deck" and escapes while being shielded from EMP by surrounding terrain features.

"Forward Pitching" requires the bomber to start the loop short of the target, and at the critical moment, the weapon is released -- and the bomber returns via the approach route, but "on-the-deck" once again.

LBJ's only option was to continue the installation of the "Hawk" anti-aircraft missile batteries all over the U.S., and since these AAA [sAM type] missiles had similar abilities as the later Patriots; it was expected that incoming warhead capsules could be at least be "fried" before descending to detonation altitudes.

Regardless of whether he even commanded the DP shooters [by Dick Tracy "wrist-radio" mayhaps??] from his very own vehicle, he still had to deal with the Cuban Nuke threat in the near term.

Why the statement that: "Most active and EFFECTIVE Cuban exile raider groups were being 'shut-down' or 'thwarted' by JFK/RFK -- is total horse-xxxx -- is soon to follow !!

"Patrick did it !!" -- Common refrain heard in Florida during 1961 thru 1967.

GPH

____________________________

*********************************************************************

"Patrick did it !!" -- Common refrain heard in Florida during 1961 thru 1967.

GPH

Yeah, right. And, with a little help from his friends.