Jim Hargrove

6 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

So Marina did not hear an American accent in Oswald's Russian. But she did hear what she thought was a Baltic accent.

Well that's interesting.

Could it be that Oswald didn't speak with an American accent?

Or could it be that back then, Russians weren't exposed to Russian-speaking Americans? (We as kids were certainly exposed to English-speaking Russians, in television shows.)

As I keep saying, I’ve been reluctant to use Marina’s testimony in my arguments about Harvey’s Russian fluency because  I think she was really put in a difficult position of having to hide her own English proficiency.  But here’s another part of her HSCA testimony that I do tend to believe, because it was confirmed by George De Mohrenschildt. 

Mr. McDONALD. Did he read a lot when he was in the Soviet
Union?
Mrs. PORTER. Yes.
Mr. McDONALD. What kind of books did he read there?
Mrs. PORTER. Novels mostly.
Mr. McDONALD. What kind of novels?
Mrs. PORTER. What you call maybe as classical novels, some
Russian classic writers.
Mr. McDONALD. The novels or the books that he read in the
Soviet Union, were they in Russian?
Mrs. PORTER. They were in Russian; yes.

And, of course, De Mohrenschildt added that “it amazed me that he read such difficult writers like Gorki, Dostoevski, Gogol, Tolstoi and Turgenieff - in Russian.”

Harvey Oswald arrived in Russia on October 15, 1959 and married Marina April 30, 1961.  Are we to believe that he taught himself enough Russian in a year and a half to read and discuss the “difficult writers” De M. talked about.  Really?

Since you seem to have an unending curiosity about my formal foreign language training, Tommy, I’ll give you a brief summary.  I took three years of Latin in high school, and then two years of German and two years of French in college.  The last time I was in France (around Toulon on the Mediterranean), I couldn’t find a single local who understood much of anything I tried to say and I couldn’t make any sense at all of any of their blatherings. (As far as I can tell, no resident of France outside of Paris speaks, or admits to speaking, English.)   

Of course, similar to Harvey Oswald and his reading of the Russian classics and his discussions of them in Russian with De Mohrenschildt, I do enjoy reading Zola, Balzac,  and Gide in the original French and discussing them in French with other French literati.  LOL.

On 4/29/2017 at 9:12 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

According to H&L critics, we're supposed to believe their opinions over the opinion of Yale University Slavic Language Department head Vladimir Petrov, who wrote that a letter supposedly written by Harvey Oswald was actually "written by a Russian with an imperfect knowledge of English."

 

 

And, of course, we're supposed to believe that, while reading Russian magazines with a Russian-English dictionary in his spare time in the Marine Corps, and while working full time in a factory in Minsk and taking no known language courses, Harvey Oswald learned to write Russian like this:

 

 

And, of course, we're supposed to assume that the H&L critics know more about Harvey Oswald's Russian abilities than his friend George De Mohrenschildt, a Russian immigrant who wrote the following in his manuscript entitled "I AM A PATSY! I AM A PATSY":

Incidentally I never saw him interested in anything else except Russian
books and magazines . He said he didn't want to forget the language -
but it amazed me that he read such difficult writers like Gorki, Dostoevski,
Gogol, Tolstoi and Turgenieff - in Russian. As everyone knows Russian is
a complex language and he was supposed to have stayed in the Soviet Union
only a little over two years. He must have had some previous training and
that point had never been brought up by the Warren Committee - and it is
still puzzling to me. In my opinion Lee was a very bright person but not
a genius. He never mastered the English language yet he learned such a dif-
icult language! I taught Russian at all level in a large University, and
I never saw such a profficiency in the best senior students who constantly
listened to  Russian tapes and spoke to Russian friends . As a matter of
fact American-born instructors never mastered Russian spoken language as
well as Lee did.

 

No doubt we're also supposed to believe the opinions of H&L critics over the opinions of other Russian immigrants around Dallas who met Harvey Oswald and shared their thoughts:

Natalie Ray was asked by Commission attorney Wesley Liebeler, "Did he (Oswald) speak to you in Russian?" Mrs. Ray replied, "Yes; just perfect; re­ally surprised me ... it's just too good speaking Russian for be such a short time, you know.... I said, 'How come you speak so good Russian? I been here so long and still don't speak very well English."

Mrs. Teofil (Anna) Meller was asked by Liebeler, "Do you think that his com­mand of the Russian language was better than you would expect for the period of time that he had spent in Russia?" Mrs. Meller replied, "Yes; absolutely better than I would expect."

Peter Gregory told Warren Commission Representative Gerald Ford, "I thought that Lee Oswald spoke (Russian) with a Polish accent, that is why I asked him if he was of Polish decent."

And on and on.  No doubt H&L critics want us to believe that Harvey Oswald's Russian fluency was a natural result of his self-study in the Marines and his two and a half years in the USSR, but I don't believe it, and I think a whole lot of people without an axe to grind in this debate won't believe it either.  And I haven't even mentioned above Harvey Oswald's obvious familiarity with the Russian language before he even "defected" to the Soviet Union.
 

Could we get back to the questions at hand?

Michael,

All this stuff about Marina proves nothing.

As I said before, I don’t use the example of any of Marina's statements in my arguments for Harvey Oswald's Russian fluency because I think Marina was trying to minimize her own fluency in English while she was still living in Russia.  She also met Robert Webster a few months before meeting “LHO” and Webster said she spoke English fluently, although with a heavy accent.  

I've presented the real evidence for Harvey's Russian fluency several times.  With no evidence of ever having had any formal training in Russian whatsoever, how did he attain such fluency in it so quickly?  How did he learn to write like this:

1 hour ago, Michael Clark said:

Jim, that is, perhaps, disingenuous. To say that when she first met Lee she thought he was from a Baltic state, and then say that, years later, she believed that he was born in the USSR, is implying something that you may not have intended.

Did Marina, years later, believe that Lee was born in the USSR?

 

Mr. McDONALD. At this time you were speaking in Russian together? 
Mrs. PORTER. Yes. He spoke with accent so I assumed he was maybe from 
another state, which is customary in Russia. People from other states do 
speak with accents because they do not speak Russian. They speak 
different languages. 
Mr. McDONALD. So when you say another state, you mean another Russian 
state? 
Mrs. PORTER. Yes, like Estonia, Lithuania, something like that. 
Mr. McDONALD. Did you suspect at all that he was an American? 
Mrs. PORTER. No, not at all. 

21 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Excuse me for not doing the digging right now, but what were Marina Oswald's responses to questions regarding Lee's ability to speak Russian?

Joe,

A few years after the assassination, Marina rather famously wrote that when she first met her future husband she thought he was from one of the Russian Baltic states because of his accent.  The clear implication of her statement was that she believed “LHO” was born in the USSR.

I don’t use this example in my arguments, however, because I think Marina was trying to minimize her own fluency in English while she was still living in Russia.  She also met Robert Webster a few months before meeting “LHO” and Webster said she spoke English fluently, although with a heavy accent.

According to H&L critics, we're supposed to believe their opinions over the opinion of Yale University Slavic Language Department head Vladimir Petrov, who wrote that a letter supposedly written by Harvey Oswald was actually "written by a Russian with an imperfect knowledge of English."

And, of course, we're supposed to believe that, while reading Russian magazines with a Russian-English dictionary in his spare time in the Marine Corps, and while working full time in a factory in Minsk and taking no known language courses, Harvey Oswald learned to write Russian like this:

And, of course, we're supposed to assume that the H&L critics know more about Harvey Oswald's Russian abilities than his friend George De Mohrenschildt, a Russian immigrant who wrote the following in his manuscript entitled "I AM A PATSY! I AM A PATSY":

Incidentally I never saw him interested in anything else except Russian
books and magazines . He said he didn't want to forget the language -
but it amazed me that he read such difficult writers like Gorki, Dostoevski,
Gogol, Tolstoi and Turgenieff - in Russian. As everyone knows Russian is
a complex language and he was supposed to have stayed in the Soviet Union
only a little over two years. He must have had some previous training and
that point had never been brought up by the Warren Committee - and it is
still puzzling to me. In my opinion Lee was a very bright person but not
a genius. He never mastered the English language yet he learned such a dif-
icult language! I taught Russian at all level in a large University, and
I never saw such a profficiency in the best senior students who constantly
listened to  Russian tapes and spoke to Russian friends . As a matter of
fact American-born instructors never mastered Russian spoken language as
well as Lee did.

No doubt we're also supposed to believe the opinions of H&L critics over the opinions of other Russian immigrants around Dallas who met Harvey Oswald and shared their thoughts:

Natalie Ray was asked by Commission attorney Wesley Liebeler, "Did he (Oswald) speak to you in Russian?" Mrs. Ray replied, "Yes; just perfect; re­ally surprised me ... it's just too good speaking Russian for be such a short time, you know.... I said, 'How come you speak so good Russian? I been here so long and still don't speak very well English."

Mrs. Teofil (Anna) Meller was asked by Liebeler, "Do you think that his com­mand of the Russian language was better than you would expect for the period of time that he had spent in Russia?" Mrs. Meller replied, "Yes; absolutely better than I would expect."

Peter Gregory told Warren Commission Representative Gerald Ford, "I thought that Lee Oswald spoke (Russian) with a Polish accent, that is why I asked him if he was of Polish decent."

And on and on.  No doubt H&L critics want us to believe that Harvey Oswald's Russian fluency was a natural result of his self-study in the Marines and his two and a half years in the USSR, but I don't believe it, and I think a whole lot of people without an axe to grind in this debate won't believe it either.  And I haven't even mentioned above Harvey Oswald's obvious familiarity with the Russian language before he even "defected" to the Soviet Union.
 

Harvey Oswald’s ability to understand Russian, and his attempts to hide that fact, were noted by a Russian doctor during Oswald’s earliest days in the USSR. In October 1959 Harvey made a false suicide attempt hoping the act would help him complete his intel assignment in Russia.  One of the doctors at Botkinskay Hospital in Moscow who attended him wrote, "The patient apparently understands the questions asked in Russian. Sometimes he answers correctly, but immediately states that he does not understand what he was asked."

Harvey Oswald’s Russian fluency was noted by many people before he even “defected to the Soviet Union, including Rosaleen Queen and a number of Marines.  This has been discussed many times before.

Tracy Parnell has a writeup claiming Oswald didn’t hide his Russian language abilities while in the Soviet Union. Parnell relies heavily on a Russian fellow named Ernst Titovets, a person many researchers don’t trust.  To see why, read the excellent article about him by researcher Milicent Cranor:

http://whowhatwhy.org/2013/08/27/is-us-effort-to-block-oswald-friend-and-his-revelations-itself-a-further-deception/

11 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

Jim,

You're either living in denial or are blinded by the fact that Oswald couldn't spell or punctuate properly.  His spoken English was excellent.

--  Tommy

Wonder what happened to that Southern drawl the kids all noticed during LEE Oswald's brief stay in New York City?

But you're right about Harvey's spoken English.  It was certainly better than his English writing skills.  Sandy explained this well way back on the first page of this thread when he wrote:

My ex-wife came to America from South Korea when she was about 7 years old. She spoke flawless English when I first met her about three years later. No accent. I think kids pick up new languages quickly.

Sounds logical to me.

So, Tommy....

You believe the Warren Commission on the "moving to San Diego" note?

Tommy,

Do you really believe the Official Story that an American-born high school student wrote the following?

Becaus (sic) we are moving to San Diego in the middle of this month Lee must quit school now. Also, please send by him (sic) any papers such as his birth certificate that you may have. Thank you. Sincirely, (sic) Mrs. M. Oswald." [WCE1413, p. 814]

Just askin'....

On 4/10/2017 at 7:12 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

George De Mohrenschildt was hardly the only White Russian immigrant in Dallas who was amazed by Harvey Oswald’s fluency in Russian.

 

From Harvey and Lee:

 

On Christmas Day, Mr. and Mrs. John (Elena) Hall visited the Oswalds at their

apartment on Elsbeth Street.¹⁶⁶ Three days later, on Friday, December 28, Mrs. Declan

(Katya) Ford held a post-Christmas party gathering at her house in Dallas. At the request

of Jeanne DeMohrenschildt. who Mrs. Ford had known for 14 years. she invited the

Oswalds to her party.¹⁶⁷ This was the third and last time Katya Ford would see either

of the Oswald's.

 

[….]

 

Party attendees notice Oswald's ability to speak Russian

 

Natalie Ray, one of the party attendees, said, "Oswald was very proud of the fact

that he spoke Russian so well." As a native of Russia Natalie said that she was amazed

that he had such a good command of the language.¹⁶⁹ Other attendees of the party were

equally amazed at his proficiency in the Russian language and discussed their thoughts

with the Warren Commission:

•

Natalie Ray was asked by Commission attorney Wesley Liebeler, "Did he

(Oswald) speak to you in Russian?" Mrs. Ray replied, "Yes; just perfect; re­ally

surprised me .... .it's just too good speaking Russian for be such a short time,

you know .... .l said, 'How come you speak so good Russian? I been here so long

and still don't speak very well English."'

•

George Bouhe was asked by Liebeler, "Did Oswald's command of the Rus­-

sian language seem to be about what you would expect from him, having been

in Russia for that period of time? Would you say it was good?" Bouhe replied,

"I would say very good."¹⁷⁰

•

Mrs. Teofil (Anna) Meller was asked by Liebeler, "Do you think that his com­-

mand of the Russian language was better than you would expect for the pe­-

riod of time that he had spent in Russia?" Mrs. Meller replied, "Yes; absolutely

better than I would expect."

•

Elena Hall was asked by Liebeler, "In your opinion, Lee did have a good

command of the Russian language?" Mrs. Hall replied, "Very good ..... "

•

Mrs. Dymitruk was asked by Commission attorney Albert Jenner, "He did

speak Russian?" Mrs. Dymitruk replied, "Yes; and I was really surprised--in

short time, he spoke nicely."

•

George DeMohrenschildt told Jenner, "He loved to speak Russian ..... he spoke

fluent Russian ..... he had a remarkable fluency in Russian ..... he preferred to

speak Russian than English any time. He always would switch from English

to Russian."

•

Peter Gregory told Warren Commission Representative Gerald Ford, "I

thought that Lee Oswald spoke (Russian) with a Polish accent, that is why I

asked him if he was of Polish decent."

 

--From Harvey and Lee, pp. 425-426, Copyright © 2003 by John Armstrong

Bumped for Tommy

On 4/9/2017 at 9:28 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

The best evidence that Harvey Oswald’s first language was Russian was his sheer mastery of it as a young man.  He clearly spoke Russian and read Russian literature in the Marines prior to his false defection to Russia.  When he returned, the White Russians in and around Dallas were amazed at his fluency, even though he had spent two and a half years there, mostly working full time in a factory.

In his manuscript  I AM A PATSY! I AM A PATSY!  Russian immigrant George De Mohrenschildt, who Harvey in 1963 called his closest friend, described his amazement at Harvey’s Russian fluency.

For those who can’t see the graphic above, here’s what the main paragraph from this page of De Mohrenschildt's manuscript says:

Incidentally I never saw him interested in anything else except Russian
books and magazines . He said he didn't want to forget the language -
but it amazed me that he read such difficult writers like Gorki, Dostoevski,
Gogol, Tolstoi and Turgenieff - in Russian . As everyone knows Russian is
a complex language and he was supposed to have stayed in the Soviet Union
only a little over two years . He must have had some previous training and
that point had never been brought up by the Warren Committee - and it is
still puzzling to me. In my opinion Lee was a very bright person but not
a genius . He never mastered the English language yet he learned such a dif-
icult language! I taught Russian at all level in a large University, and
I never saw such a profficiency in the best senior students who constantly
listened to  Russian tapes and spoke to Russian fiends . As a matter of
fact American-born instructors never mastered Russian spoken language as
well as Lee did .

De Mohrenschildt would have made a fascinating witness at the HSCA hearings and, in fact, in early 1977 the HSCA sought to interview him. But on March 30 he was found in his home with a shotgun blast to his head. The last person to see him alive was author Edward Epstein, a close friend of CIA Counterintelligence Chief James Angleton.

There are a number of people here on the Education Forum who will undoubtedly claim there is nothing unusual about Harvey Oswald’s Russian fluency.  But that is not the view of the Russian immigrants who met him in Dallas in 1963.  No doubt the Harvey and Lee critics here will say they know better.

Bumped for Tommy.

On 4/13/2017 at 7:11 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

As for Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald's command of English, just look at how he wrote:

The first sentence reads:

“Sorry too take so long to write but I thought sometime might have
come up but we’re still waiting.”

Note the comma splice in the second sentence.

Bumped for Tommy.

On 4/13/2017 at 8:08 PM, Jim Hargrove said:

This should be better, despite suspected DropBox compression .... 

 

Take another look, Parnell.

At least one of the mugshots here is an OBVIOUS pencil drawing.  Can you spot it?

A number of  pictures here are NEITHER Harvey nor Lee.  You can see them, right?

3 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

James,

Why do I ask?

....

That's why.

--  Tommy

Please show me some actual EVIDENCE, Tommy.  I think you know at least part of what my side has!  Let's get a move on it!

14 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Lee Oswald took the risk of going to the Book Depository so he could parade around with a rifle on the sixth floor and be seen minutes before the assassination.  He looked enough like Harvey that it was assumed some witnesses would be confused.

It surprises me that any critic of the Warren Commission would make a comment like Glenn’s above.  If we have learned ANYTHING over the years, it is that there were many witnesses on 11/22/63 who saw things that undermined the Official Story®, but that these views were totally suppressed in a number of different ways.

Some witness observations were merely altered.  The three minute video below shows how the FBI altered the statements of three Dealey Plaza witnesses who saw evidence of shooters outside the Book Depository.

 

Sworn testimony before the Warren Commission was altered, as the example below shows, in this case to hide the secret transfer of “Oswald’s” possessions to Washington, D.C. the very night of the assassination.  That evidence was altered and then expanded before being secretly returned to Dallas and then being publicly sent to Washington.
 

Some witnesses were browbeaten by the FBI to change their stories.  When that didn’t work, some witnesses were even dumped into insane asylums.   Ralph Leon Yates comes to mind.  And, of course, many were simply killed.

As far as we know, someone at the TSBD may well have noticed two similar looking “Oswalds” were in the building.  But we can hardly expect they would be in a position to tell us about it.

Please, folks, at least watch Gil Jesus' 3-minute YouTube video (link above.)  You'll know then who is telling you the truth and who is lying to you!!!!!  

In the fall of 1953 LEE Oswald was attending the eighth grade at PS 44 in New York, while HARVEY Oswald and his caretaker/mother were living at 126 Exchange Place in New Orleans. HARVEY was enrolled in the eighth grade at Beauregard Junior High, and because he attended school part-time he was not assigned a home room. On page 817, of Warren Volume 22, there is a copy of Oswald's cumulative school records at Beauregard.  The first row, highlighted in yellow, is the fall semester of 1953 and shows that Oswald attended a General Science class, a Physical Education class, and attended 89 days of school with only one absence. The second row is for the last half of the eighth grade (spring semester). The third row shows final grades, absences, and tardies for the entire 53-54 school year (eighth grade).

Beauregard Record 1953 Beauregard JHS record showing HARVEY Oswald attended 89 days of school during the fall semester of 1953, at the same time LEE Oswald attended PS 44 in New York City. See HARVEY's complete attendance and grade information for the fall 1953 semester directly below.

Wilfred Head, assistant principal at Warren Easton High School in New Orleans, provided HARVEY Oswald's grade and  attendance records for Beauregard JHS (8th & 9th grade) and Warren Easton HS (10th grade) to the FBI. The record above shows HARVEY'S grades under "1953-54 REPORT 1" (General Science & Physical Education), which is the 1st half
 of the 1953-54 school year--the fall semester of 1953.

The document above shows that HARVEY Oswald attended 89 days and was
 absent just one day in the 1953 fall semester at Beauregard JHS  (1953-54 REPORT 1).    The above record continues the text from the bottom of the page at left. Assistant Principal Wilfred Head advised the FBI that the abbreviation "Re ad," represented "Re Admitted" and added that the numbers set forth opposite these abbreviations would represent the total number of school days attended. HARVEY Oswald attended 89 days of school at Beauregard JHS during the fall semester of 1953.

THE 3 DOCUMENTS ABOVE CLEARLY SHOW THAT OSWALD (HARVEY) ATTENDED BEAUREGARD JHS IN NEW ORLEANS IN THE FALL OF 1953 (HIGHLIGHTED IN YELLOW). THE NEW YORK CITY SCHOOL RECORD PUBLISHED BY THE WARREN COMMISSION (CE 1384), SHOWS THAT OSWALD (LEE) ATTENDED PS 44 IN NEW YORK CITY IN THE FALL OF 1953 (HIGHLIGHTED IN YELLOW). HARVEY WAS IN NEW ORLEANS, WHILE LEE WAS IN NEW YORK, FROM SEPTEMBER THROUGH DECEMBER, 1953.
 

PLEASE RESPOND, TOMMY!

2 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

James,

I haven't had a couple of hours free, you know, to read even one of your new, hot stinkin' spaghetti posts on this thread, yet, but I do have a question for you.

How far back in time do the stands in these new, hot sinkin' spaghetti posts of yours go back, anyway?  All the way bact to 1947 or so?  Or "only" back to when your "Harvey" entered the Marine Corps (October, 1956, wasn't it)?  It does make a difference you know.  At least according to Forum member and former U.S. Army Intelligence officer Jon G.Tidd, who said that the Oswald "Double" project was started at that time, and that "Harvey's an Lee's" childhoods were more-or-less retroactively fabricated on paper.

--  Tommy

Tommy...

It goes back to the USMC **AND** to 1947 on San Saba.  Since you know that, why do you ask?

Explain why "Lee Harvey Oswald" attended PS 44 in New York City and Beauregard JHS in New Orleans at the same time.

51 minutes ago, Glenn Nall said:

Jim.

I meant a diversion in this thread. you know what a thread is, right? these threads RARELY stay on topic.

THAT's what I meant.

damn.

and yes, I've read John's material and in fact subscribe to about half of his opinions.

please reread the comments to which I replied - in context...?

A point well taken, Glenn.  I'll read your comments again in the morning.  Thank you for responding.

On 4/3/2017 at 8:06 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

When Tracy Parnell gets in trouble and can’t explain away the evidence for two Oswalds, he tends to provide a link to a private website run by Greg Parker, pretending the answer is there.  Parnell did so when he couldn’t explain how Oswald could go to school simultaneously New York City and New Orleans, and he is doing so again now regarding “Oswald” in Taiwan and Japan simultaneously. 

At the site linked by Parnell, Parker claims, without even providing a name, that he has contacted someone from the U.S.S. Skagit.  I guess we have to trust him that he has actually done so.  And so the question becomes, how trustworthy is Greg Parker?
 
Here's one example.  On May 30, 2015, Parker made a post on this forum claiming that photo files I had made available to forum members contained the Delta Home virus.

Parker went on to make other claims about how much he was suffering from the malware I had inflicted on him.  I knew this was unlikely because I had already scanned the files for malware before uploading them to a temporary directory at HarveyandLee.net.  

But I decided to go one step further and contact the support team at my website’s host, an outfit called Bluehost.  We had a lengthy text chat about Parker’s imaginary virus, and after it was completed indicating the files contained no malware, Bluehost sent me a transcript of the chat.  Here are some excerpts:
 

Chat ID: 4590482. Question: Provider: Bluehost - My Domain is: "HarveyandLee.net" Hi, I put up three .jpg files in a temporary directory this morning, and someone who doesn't like me claims they contain the Delta Homes virus. I see no evidence this is true. Is there anyway your server checks for this? The files are in the directory xxxxx/Temp and are named: FWST.jpg WW-Photo-1.jpg WW-Photo-2.jpg

....

11:24:53amJames

Okay you are verified. Let us see what I can do for you. Give me just a moment to look at them, and see what I can find. I'll also get a malware scan running if I don't see anything directly.

11:25:33amJim Hargrove

Thank you! I ran the latest version of ClamAV on all three files before uploading, and came up "no threats"

11:27:59amJames

They don't seem to look bad to me, either. Just a moment, making sure with a scan.

11:34:12amJames

Other than them being very interesting from a historical standpoint, I'm not seeing any evidence of malware or a virus on them. Let me get Terms of Service to run a deeper scan, see if there's something else. Will take me a moment to contact them.

....

12:04:45pmJames Scan's aren't showing any malware, from what we're seeing.

 

No one else on the forum complained about a virus.  It was obvious Parker was just making this up.  Later that same day, Don Jeffries summarized the silly business this way:

And now, what will happen to Greg Parker, after he warned people not to click on the links Jim Hargrove posted on the Frankenstein picture thread? These were harmless, legitimate links, provided by Jim in order to further the debate. Maybe Greg'a computer is different from all others, and strangely susceptible to viruses that don't exist. The alternative is that Greg was falsely labeling Jm's links as dangerous, when clearly they weren't. Imagine how Greg would respond to someone saying that about any links that he provided. I can hear the demands for a public apology now. Maybe he'd even start one of those dramatic "countdowns" he tried to use once with me. Regardless, you will never see an apology from Greg on this or any other forum.

See Don’s post HERE.

Really trustworthy guy, that Greg Parker.  I can see why Tracy Parnell relies on him when the going gets tough!

Explain, please, Tommy!

On 4/2/2017 at 7:18 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

 

Myrtle Evans and her husband Julian were friends with the real Marguerite Oswald for nearly three decades. Included in Julian Evans' April 7, 1964 WC testimony was this exchange with Jenner (emphasis added):  

Mr. JENNER - Give me your impression of Marguerite Oswald.
Mr. EVANS - Marguerite?
Mr. JENNER - Yes.
Mr. EVANS - I think she's a fine woman, myself, a fine woman; intelligent, very soft spoken - a beautiful woman, with black hair streaked with a little gray, but when you saw her on television since this thing happened, she really looked awful; nothing at all like she used to look. She has really aged. She looked like a charwoman, compared to what she used to look like. She used to be a fashion plate. She dressed beautifully, but when we saw her on television just recently, after all this happened, she looked awful. There's no way to describe it, the change that has come over her. You wouldn't have recognized her if they hadn't told you who she was; she looked that different. Where her hair used to be black, now it's entirely gray, and she really looks Old
Mr. JENNER - Well, she's 57, I believe.
Mr. EVANS - That's right; she's the same age as my wife, but she looks about 70 now. That's about all I can remember about her, and then I saw this thing on television when the President was assassinated, and when it showed her picture, we just couldn't believe it was Marguerite.

His wife Myrtle Evans testified on the same day:

Mrs. EVANS - A very good housekeeper, very tasty; she could take anything and make something out of it, and something beautiful. She had a lot of natural talent that way, and she was not lazy. She would work with things by the hour for her children, and she kept a very neat house, and she was always so lovely herself. That's why, when I saw her on TV, after all of this happened, she looked so old and haggard, and I said, "That couldn't be Margie," but of course it was, but if you had known Margie before all this happened, you would see what I mean. She was beautiful. She had beautiful wavy hair.

Mrs. Evans added this:

Mrs. EVANS - As far as I could see, they were very happy, very closely knit, very much in love with each other, and these boys knew that their mother was putting them through school, and giving them what they needed, as best she could. She was a very good provider for her children, and a very decent woman. I mean, she wasn't a loose woman at all. She was very decent, a very fine woman. 

Does that sound like the "Marguerite Oswald" we all heard about.

And then there's Ed Voebel....

Mr. JENNER. Did you ever meet his mother? 
Mr. VOEBEL. I think I met her one time, and for some reason I had a picture in my mind which was different from when I saw her in the paper after all of this happened. I didn't recognize her. She was a lot thinner, and her hair wasn't as gray, as I recall it, when I met her. Of course, this was about 8 years ago, but I can remember she had a black dress on, and she was sitting down smoking a cigarette; now, maybe she wasn't smoking, but this is a picture that comes to my mind as I recall that. 

Of course, none of these people could have possibly known about the elaborate charade that comprised the Oswald Project, but they clearly were surprised at phony Marguerite's appearance in 1964.  

Mr. and Mrs. Evans both testified that the Lee Harvey Oswald they knew was loud and boisterous, with a "foghorn voice."  This is certainly not the quiet, withdrawn, passive-aggresive kid described by the Warren Commision.

Tommy?

On 4/6/2017 at 3:49 PM, Jim Hargrove said:

Parker and Parnell will never admit the truth about this silly argument, but let’s just review all the evidence that the U.S.S. Skagit with Harvey Oswald aboard departed Yokosuka, Japan on Sept. 14, 1958.  As Sandy discovered a day or two ago, the Skagit’s own webpage indicates it departed on Sept. 14 (emphasis added):

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

Recollections of: Clark Leonard, LT. USMC
Combat Cargo Officer 1958 - 1959

….

In September 1958 we proceeded to Yokosuka, Japan where we loaded personnel of Marine Air Group 3 and filled the holds with steel matting for an airfield and with 5" shells for the Chinese Nationalists defending Quemoy and Matsu, two small islands off the Chinese mainland. We were not supposed to carry ammunition but Quemoy and Matsu were in desperate need and we had the duty. The men were very hesitant to load live shells and store them in the holds. We were really lucky we were not all killed, as we were not qualified to do it, but you do as you are told.

Departed Sept.14 and ran into Typhoon Helen, very rough seas, and giant waves. Arrived Kaoshung, Formosa on Sept,19 unloaded matting continuously for 48 hours. When I went to the new airfield they were laying matting down in a soggy rice paddy and F-9 Cougars were starting to arrive.  Amazing!  The ammunition was loaded directly onto LSTs and sent to Quemoy. At this time Formosa was a third world country. I hired local workers to help on the ship, three coolies for a day, for the price of one box of C rations (enough to serve one man for one day). Life was cheap!!!

Source: http://www.ussskagit.org/Timeline1944to1969.html
 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Page 684 of the Warren Commission Report includes the following statement:

On September 14, Oswald sailed with his unit for the South China
Sea area the unit was at Ping Tung, North Taiwan on September 30,
and returned to Atsugi on October 5.361 On October 6, he was trans-
ferred out of MACS-1 and put on general duty, in anticipation of his
return to the United States.362
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Harvey Oswald’s Unit Diary of Sept. 14, 1958, certified correct by Wm. A. Allanson, indicated that the Skagit “sailed fr Yokosuka Japan for the South China Sea….”

 

 

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Page 5 of CE 1961 also indicates the Skagit departed Japan on September 14:

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

So what gives Parnell and Parker the opportunity to grasp at a straw that the Skagit actually sailed on Sept. 16 rather than Sept. 14?  Answer: the following document, an obvious lie by the Office of the U.S. Secretary of Defense attempting to explain how Oswald could be treated for VD at Atsugi, Japan while en route to Taiwan about the Skagit:

 

Why on earth would anyone who supposedly wants to “Reopen the Kennedy Case” rely on such an unreliable document as the one above?  The fraudulent note from the Sec. Def’s office even implies that LHO never went to Taiwan, despite a massive amount of evidence otherwise.  This attempted cover-up is so blatant and obvious it is downright pitiful.

Why do Parnell and Parker put any reliance on this cover-up document and an HSCA reference to it?  Because both of them are desperate and willing to say ANYTHING that will hide the evidence for two Oswalds, that’s why.

Tommy?

On 4/4/2017 at 9:43 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

The Bolton Ford Incident

 

On January 20, 1961, while Harvey Oswald was in Minsk, two men visited the Bolton Ford dealership in New Orleans. They spoke with Assistant Manager Oscar Deslatte and said they were interested in purchasing 10 Ford Econoline Trucks. As one of the men discussed the purchase with Deslatte the other man, who identified himself as Joseph Moore, made a list of the equipment they desired on the trucks.

Deslatte went to his boss, truck manager Fred Sewell, and told him about the two men who wanted to purchase trucks and said they represented the "Free Democrats of Cuba or some such organization." Sewell told Deslatte to give the men a bid of $75 over their cost for the trucks. Deslatte and Sewell returned to Deslatte's desk and wrote out a bid form to Joseph Moore. As Deslatte was filling out the bid form, Joseph Moore and the other man began talking to both Deslatte and Sewell.⁴²

When Moore saw that Deslatte had written his name on the bid form he asked that the name be changed to "Friends of Democratic Cuba." Moore's friend looked· at the form and said, "By the way, you'd better put my name down there because I'm the man handling the money." When Deslatte asked, "What's your name?" the man replied, "Lee Oswald." ^61-04

 

Sewell described Lee Oswald as, "5-foot-6 or 5-foot-7, thin, about 140 pounds, and thought he needed a meal and a haircut. He recalled that Oswald was clean but "wasn't well dressed and he wasn't shabby." Sewell described the second man, who identified himself as Joseph Moore as, "Kind of heavy-set ..... not overly, but well built ..... he was curly haired ..... he had a scar over his left eye ..... olive complexioned and seemed to be educated ..... he had a Cuban accent and looked like a Cuban."

Deslatte gave the original bid form to "Lee Oswald" and kept a copy for his files, which he gave to the FBI following the assassination.^61-05

 

 

 

The purchaser was listed as the "Friends of Democratic Cuba," 402 St. Charles Street, New Orleans, LA., phone number JA-5-0763.⁴³ After talking with Deslate for over an hour the two men took the original bid form and left.

 

NOTE: The Friends of Democratic Cuba was incorporated on January 9, 1961 in

Louisiana. The address of 402 St. Charles Street was listed as vacant in the 1960, 1961

and 1962 New Orleans City directories.

 

--Above excerpted from Harvey and Lee, pp. 325-326, Copyright © 2003 by John Armstrong

 

Remarkable about the “Friends of Democratic Cuba” were the names of two of its officers. The image shown below is a composite scan from the beginning and the end of the Louisiana Articles of Incorporation for Friends of Democratic Cuba, Inc.

 

 

W. Guy Banister worked at the infamous 544 Camp Street address in New Orleans, made famous by the Jim Garrison investigation.

Gerard Tugague employed Oswald briefly in late 1955 and early 1956 at the 300 Sanlin Building in New Orleans.

On our website John Armstrong wrote, “This well-known incident was cited in Warren Commission Document 75 p. 677 and the House Select Committee on Assassinations Vol. X; FBI 67-39565-66. For years some JFK researchers believed that an impostor was using Oswald's name while the alleged future assassin was in Russia. As more and more examples surfaced it became clear that another man, using the name "Lee Harvey Oswald," was associating with anti-Castro Cubans and CIA operatives in the southern United States during the very years the Warren Commission placed him in the Soviet Union. This man was southern born LEE Oswald, and is a clear indication that both Oswalds were active in American intelligence operations.”

There are other examples of LEE Oswald operating in the U.S. while HARVEY Oswald was in Russia. For an overview, see THIS PAGE on HarveyandLee.net.

Below is a copy of the FBI report covering this incident. Compare it to the Garrison interview excerpted above.

 

Your opinion, Tommy?

On 4/13/2017 at 6:49 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

In the immortal words of Natalie Ray, asked by Liebeler if "Oswald" spoke to her in Russian:

Yes; just perfect; really surprised me... it's just too good speaking Russian to be such
a short time, you know.... I said, "How come you speak so good Russian? I been here so long
and still don't speak very well English."

Of course George De Mohrenschildt, a Russian immigrant and a teacher of Russian, said it
best:

Incidentally I never saw him interested in anything else except Russian
books and magazines. He said he didn't want to forget the language -
but it amazed me that he read such difficult writers like Gorki, Dostoevski,
Gogol, Tolstoi and Turgenieff - in Russian . As everyone knows Russian is
a complex language and he was supposed to have stayed in the Soviet Union
only a little over two years. He must have had some previous training and
that point had never been brought up by the Warren Committee - and it is
still puzzling to me. In my opinion Lee was a very bright person but not
a genius . He never mastered the English language yet he learned such a dif-
icult language! I taught Russian at all level in a large University, and
I never saw such a profficiency in the best senior students who constantly
listened to  Russian tapes and spoke to Russian fiends . As a matter of
fact American-born instructors never mastered Russian spoken language as
well as Lee did.

If you want to believe that "Lee Harvey Oswald" learned Russian with that level of
fluency by reading Russian newspapers in his spare time in the Marines and spending
two and a half years mostly working full-time in a factory in Russia, I've got
a bridge I'd like to sell you.

Just wondering, Tommy, how you explain this?