Jim Hargrove

In his letter to John Tower, Petrov wrote “I am satisified that the letter was not written by him.  It was written by a Russian with an imperfect knowledge of English.  I assume it was signed by Oswald.”

In his diatribe against me, Parker fails to mention that the very next sentence in Petrov’s letter begins “The rest is sheer speculation….”  Parker fails to tell his tiny readership that Petrov was confidant about the letter writer’s Russian-language roots, but was just guessing about everything else. 

Why does Parker leave out that little detail?

All of this was abundantly disclosed in my very first post on page one of this thread, which showed Petrov’s full letter to John Tower, including what he was sure of (that the letter was written by a Russian with an imperfect knowledge of English), and his sheer speculation (which is everything else in the letter.)

Parker concludes with a link to the Petrov section of the John Armstrong Collection at Baylor University, which just includes more on Petrov’s “sheer speculation” about “Oswald.”  Parker still has no legitimate explanation for how “Oswald” attended school simultaneously in New York City and New Orleans, or how he was treated for VD at Atsugi station in Japan while on board the Skagit and in Taiwan.

To return his compliment to me, Parker is a disgrace.

2 hours ago, Michael Walton said:

Also that poster of many faces is fascinating.  The only one that looks odd is the third row, fourth from the left.

Hah-hah-hah!  You're kidding, right?  That's the "only one that looks odd"?   Sheesh!  

Because we're analyzing the things they forgot to hide. We're exploiting their errors. No one else "investigated" this case.   Making a human being disappear from history is complicated, and the government and their agents made mistakes.  That's what we're presenting here.

The HSCA concluded that "Lee Harvey Oswald fired three shots at Kennedy. The second and third shots Oswald fired struck the President. The third shot he fired killed the President."  The acoustic evidence it relied on for a possible fourth shot and a possible second gunman was flawed.  Blakey's 2003 mea culpa indicating he was SHOCKED, SHOCKED that the CIA lied to him is pitiful.  I have shown in this very thread how utterly dishonest the HSCA was in dealing with "Oswald's" simultaneous appearances on the U.S.S. Skagit en route to Taiwan and the Atsugi naval base in Japan.  You can chose to ignore it if you wish, but it is plainly obvious.

1 hour ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

It is interesting that you accept Mr. Phipps "study" quickly, yet reject the work of the HSCA experts.

And the answer to this doesn't occur to you?  Drew Phipps was not an agent of the U.S. government.  He was not paid by the U.S. government. His results were not published by the U.S. government.

Do you think these images are all of the same person?

 

H&L critics on this forum didn’t have much luck explaining how “Lee Harvey Oswald” went to school in New York City and New Orleans at the same time, or how he happened to be aboard the USS Skagit and in Taiwan at the same time he was being treated for VD in Japan, or how he visited the Bolton Ford dealership in New Orleans while he was in Minsk. They probably feel better about the mastoidectomy procedure(s), which requires me to speculate about a solution, but the sheer amount of evidence supporting John Armstrong’s work is just overwhelming. 
As one example, a couple of years ago on another forum, a Dallas attorney named Drew Phipps, familiar with facial recognition techniques, did a detailed series of posts he titled: “Pixel Counting Biometric Comparison of Oswald photos.”

Mr. Phipps measured, in various pictures of “Oswald,” the ratios of the distances between a number of different facials features in photos. He described his analytical method as follows:

The ratios I will use are: “pupil-to-pupil / width of eye” (called P/W hereafter), “pupil-to-pupil / length of nose” (called P/N hereafter), “pupil-to-pupil / nose-to-top-lip” (called P/L hereafter) and “pupil-to-pupil / earlobe-to-earlobe” (called P/E hereafter). The use of ratios (instead of actual measurements) will make it unnecessary to know more about the distance from lens to face, or the type of camera, etc., since the proportions of the face of the same person should stay the same regardless of those other factors.

In his series of posts, Mr. Phipps went into considerable detail about the photos he was using and how he made and interpreted his measurements. I think you have to be a member of the forum to be able to see the actual graphics but the written descriptions of his work, and his conclusions, are visible to non-members. At any rate, here are Mr. Phipps’ final conclusions.

Visual Conclusions: Unless there is something terribly wrong with my methodology, (or my spreadsheet skills), or the photos are simply too low resolution for a significant biometric comparison, there is some evidence that there is more than one individual here. 

If I had to clump the photos in two different piles, it looks to me like photos 1, 2, 3, 9 and 13 are the same individual, and photos 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 11, and 12 are the same individual.

I realize this is not the same narrative as "Harvey and Lee". It is still my opinion that it is far more likely that the paper trail of discrepancies surrounding Oswald is the result of deliberate tampering with his records (in an attempt to catch a mole, or deceive a communist spy organization). But the biometric discrepancies are starting to make me wonder. 

CLICK HERE to see Mr. Phipps’ study.
 

In my next post, I’ll show a chart John Armstrong asked Jack White to prepare showing the many faces of "Lee Harvey Oswald. "
 

According to Wikipedia, the CIA’s MKUltra “operation began in the early 1950s” and “was officially sanctioned in 1953,” which happens to be the very year phony Marguerite hired as a housekeeper a woman named Louise Robertson to clean her little apartment in New York City.  After the assassination, Mrs. Robertson was questioned by the FBI and she gave a curious statement.
 

In her Warren Commission testimony, “Marguerite” denied that her “son” came to New York to go to a hospital.  

Mr. RANKIN. Before you leave New York, did you ever tell anybody that you took Lee Oswald to New York so he could have mental tests at the Jacobi Hospital? 
Mrs. OSWALD. No, sir, never. My child was a normal child--and while in New York. I explained to you he had a dog with puppies. The school teachers talked well about him. He had a bicycle. There was nothing abnormal about Lee Oswald. 

Put yourself in the position of a CIA officer grooming a Russian-speaking kid so he could assume the identity of an American-born child and eventually travel to the Soviet Union in a false defector spy operation.  The American-born child, we’re told, had a mastoidectomy in 1946. Since your Company clearly has no compunctions against poisoning thousands of often unwitting Americans with LSD, why would you hesitate to arrange for an unnecessary mastoidectomy as soon as possible to the kid being groomed to take the American’s place?  It seems only natural to me.

And that might be the real reason “Marguerite” brought her “son” to a New York City hospital.  After all, what possible reason did Mrs. Robertson have to lie to the FBI about Marguerite's remarks?  "Marguerite's" need to lie was obvious.

John Armstrong also points out that the Marguerite Oswald impostor “told a staff member at the Youth House that she was unable to return to Texas due to financial hardship. She said that she was earning $45 per week (before taxes) and spending nearly half, $72.50 per month, for rent. Yet in the summer of 1953 the poor, despondent, "Marguerite" hired a housekeeper, Louise Robertson, to clean her apartment two or three days per week.”  Was she getting extra money from someone?

 

Thanks for your opinions, Michael.  It is amazing that you share them so freely while openly admitting that you don't even know the basics of Harvey and Lee.  

1 hour ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

Anything that supports the H&L theory wherever it comes from is legitimate. And anything that doesn't support H&L is fake.

 

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Bullcrap! Jim gives the evidence that exposes the lies. And you choose to ignore that evidence.

 

Thanks, Sandy.  I really appreciate the original work you've done on this issue and others such as the Magic Money Order.  I never worry about arguing on behalf of John Armstrong's work, because his careful research and his detailed write-ups always stand up to the toughest scrutiny.  All the critics can do, for the most part, is cheat.  We're seeing that right here, eh?

7 hours ago, Jeremy Bojczuk said:

Not only that, but by the time of his exhumation in 1981, the fictional 'Harvey' had somehow managed to acquire a scar from a mastoidectomy operation, despite not having had such an operation during 'his' fictional lifetime.

According to 'Harvey and Lee' doctrine, the operation had been carried out on 'Lee', not 'Harvey'. That tells you all you need to know about this nonsensical theory, which can't even get its basic plot line straight.

In the real world, of course, the operation was carried out on the historical, real, and far from imaginary Lee Harvey Oswald, whose body it was that was exhumed in 1981.

Who the hell do you think you’re kidding?  During the very era of the early Oswald Project, the CIA was already starting to poison thousands of unwitting Americans with LSD as part of its infamous  MKUltra project.  Do you seriously think officers in an out-of-control agency like that would hesitate to give a boy an unnecessary mastoidectomy so his health records would match the kid whose identity he shared and soon took over?

On the floor of the U.S. Senate, Ted Kennedy said in 1977:

The Deputy Director of the CIA revealed that over thirty universities and institutions were involved in an "extensive testing and experimentation" program which included covert drug tests on unwitting citizens "at all social levels, high and low, native Americans and foreign." Several of these tests involved the administration of LSD to "unwitting subjects in social situations."

Parker and Parnell will never admit the truth about this silly argument, but let’s just review all the evidence that the U.S.S. Skagit with Harvey Oswald aboard departed Yokosuka, Japan on Sept. 14, 1958.  As Sandy discovered a day or two ago, the Skagit’s own webpage indicates it departed on Sept. 14 (emphasis added):

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 

Recollections of: Clark Leonard, LT. USMC
Combat Cargo Officer 1958 - 1959

….

In September 1958 we proceeded to Yokosuka, Japan where we loaded personnel of Marine Air Group 3 and filled the holds with steel matting for an airfield and with 5" shells for the Chinese Nationalists defending Quemoy and Matsu, two small islands off the Chinese mainland. We were not supposed to carry ammunition but Quemoy and Matsu were in desperate need and we had the duty. The men were very hesitant to load live shells and store them in the holds. We were really lucky we were not all killed, as we were not qualified to do it, but you do as you are told.

Departed Sept.14 and ran into Typhoon Helen, very rough seas, and giant waves. Arrived Kaoshung, Formosa on Sept,19 unloaded matting continuously for 48 hours. When I went to the new airfield they were laying matting down in a soggy rice paddy and F-9 Cougars were starting to arrive.  Amazing!  The ammunition was loaded directly onto LSTs and sent to Quemoy. At this time Formosa was a third world country. I hired local workers to help on the ship, three coolies for a day, for the price of one box of C rations (enough to serve one man for one day). Life was cheap!!!

Source: http://www.ussskagit.org/Timeline1944to1969.html
 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Page 684 of the Warren Commission Report includes the following statement:

On September 14, Oswald sailed with his unit for the South China
Sea area the unit was at Ping Tung, North Taiwan on September 30,
and returned to Atsugi on October 5.361 On October 6, he was trans-
ferred out of MACS-1 and put on general duty, in anticipation of his
return to the United States.362
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Harvey Oswald’s Unit Diary of Sept. 14, 1958, certified correct by Wm. A. Allanson, indicated that the Skagit “sailed fr Yokosuka Japan for the South China Sea….”

 

 

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

Page 5 of CE 1961 also indicates the Skagit departed Japan on September 14:

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =

So what gives Parnell and Parker the opportunity to grasp at a straw that the Skagit actually sailed on Sept. 16 rather than Sept. 14?  Answer: the following document, an obvious lie by the Office of the U.S. Secretary of Defense attempting to explain how Oswald could be treated for VD at Atsugi, Japan while en route to Taiwan about the Skagit:

 

Why on earth would anyone who supposedly wants to “Reopen the Kennedy Case” rely on such an unreliable document as the one above?  The fraudulent note from the Sec. Def’s office even implies that LHO never went to Taiwan, despite a massive amount of evidence otherwise.  This attempted cover-up is so blatant and obvious it is downright pitiful.

Why do Parnell and Parker put any reliance on this cover-up document and an HSCA reference to it?  Because both of them are desperate and willing to say ANYTHING that will hide the evidence for two Oswalds, that’s why.

I don't know what the "so-called neck scratching film" is, but the other situations you describe all involve Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald.  Considering how often you give your opinion about Harvey and Lee, I'm amazed that you don't even know the basics about it.

33 minutes ago, George Sawtelle said:

W. Tracy As you look for evidence of two Oswalds, forget about Armstrong´s work.

Good idea, Mr. Sawtelle, but that's not going to happen.  W. Tracy is here to debunk JA, and for no other reason.  

Tommy,

I accept your evidence that you have some linguistic chops, but....

Why do you assume that you know more about American English vs. a Slavic language [Russian]  in 1963 than the head of the Slavic languages department at Yale University  in 1964? Frankly, that just doesn't make much sense to me.

--Jim 

1 hour ago, George Sawtelle said:

W. Tracy So what ever I say about why I believe there were two Oswalds is not good enough for you. Even though there is strong evidence that indicates that there were two Oswalds in Dealey Plaza at the time of the assassination.

And two Oswalds SIMULTANEOUSLY in and around Dallas in the five or six weeks before the assassination.

And two Oswalds SIMULTANEOUSLY in the USSR and New Orleans, Louisiana in 1960 and 1961.

And two Oswalds SIMULTANEOUSLY in Atsugi, Japan and Ping-Tung, North Taiwan in 1958.

And two Oswalds SIMULTANEOUSLY in PS 44 in New York City and Beauregard JHS in New Orleans in 1953

And two Oswalds SIMULTANEOUSLY in 1947, in and around 101 San Saba in Tarrant County, Texas.

And, of course, two Oswalds in the U.S. Marine corps everywhere you look.

 

On 3/27/2017 at 3:28 PM, Jim Hargrove said:

Well, boys and girls, I'm sure you're all way smarter than the head of the Slavic Language Department of Yale University about these linguistic considerations, but here's what he said....

In January 1962, Harvey Oswald mailed a handwritten letter to United States Sena­tor John Tower, requesting re-entry into the U.S.  The letter was published soon after the assassination. In December 1963 Vladimir Petrov, head of the Slavic Language Department at Yale Universithy, read a copy of Oswald's letter and then wrote to Senator Tower. Petrov said, "I am satisfied that letter was not written by him [Harvey Oswald]. It was written by a Russian with an imperfect knowledge of English." 

 

I'll be away from my computer for several hours, so I'm sure you can declare victory several hundred times over the Harvey and Lee Menace while I'm gone.

Just asking, Tommy.

Will you EVER respond to this?

 

Harvey Oswald’s command of the Russian language was too good for his Official Biography.

 

From Harvey and Lee:

 

On Christmas Day, Mr. and Mrs. John (Elena) Hall visited the Oswalds at their

apartment on Elsbeth Street.¹⁶⁶ Three days later, on Friday, December 28, Mrs. Declan

(Katya) Ford held a post-Christmas party gathering at her house in Dallas. At the request

of Jeanne DeMohrenschildt. who Mrs. Ford had known for 14 years. she invited the

Oswalds to her party.¹⁶⁷ This was the third and last time Katya Ford would see either

of the Oswald's.

 

[….]

 

Party attendees notice Oswald's ability to speak Russian

 

Natalie Ray, one of the party attendees, said, "Oswald was very proud of the fact

that he spoke Russian so well." As a native of Russia Natalie said that she was amazed

that he had such a good command of the language.¹⁶⁹ Other attendees of the party were

equally amazed at his proficiency in the Russian language and discussed their thoughts

with the Warren Commission:

•

Natalie Ray was asked by Commission attorney Wesley Liebeler, "Did he

(Oswald) speak to you in Russian?" Mrs. Ray replied, "Yes; just perfect; re­ally

surprised me .... .it's just too good speaking Russian for be such a short time,

you know .... .l said, 'How come you speak so good Russian? I been here so long

and still don't speak very well English."'

•

George Bouhe was asked by Liebeler, "Did Oswald's command of the Rus­-

sian language seem to be about what you would expect from him, having been

in Russia for that period of time? Would you say it was good?" Bouhe replied,

"I would say very good."¹⁷⁰

•

Mrs. Teofil (Anna) Meller was asked by Liebeler, "Do you think that his com­-

mand of the Russian language was better than you would expect for the pe­-

riod of time that he had spent in Russia?" Mrs. Meller replied, "Yes; absolutely

better than I would expect."

•

Elena Hall was asked by Liebeler, "In your opinion, Lee did have a good

command of the Russian language?" Mrs. Hall replied, "Very good ..... "

•

Mrs. Dymitruk was asked by Commission attorney Albert Jenner, "He did

speak Russian?" Mrs. Dymitruk replied, "Yes; and I was really surprised--in

short time, he spoke nicely."

•

George DeMohrenschildt told Jenner, "He loved to speak Russian ..... he spoke

fluent Russian ..... he had a remarkable fluency in Russian ..... he preferred to

speak Russian than English any time. He always would switch from English

to Russian."

•

Peter Gregory told Warren Commission Representative Gerald Ford, "I

thought that Lee Oswald spoke (Russian) with a Polish accent, that is why I

asked him if he was of Polish decent."

 

--From Harvey and Lee, pp. 425-426, Copyright © 2003 by John Armstrong

4 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

The H&L gang seems to not understand that when people report their remembrances to the FBI or other agency that they are making their best guess as to the time. But unless they have a diary or other documentation to refer to it is just that a guess. William Trail remembered LHO being in the brig, he was just a little off on the timing. LHO went in the brig on June 29 and was released on August 13. Trail’s memory was actually pretty good and he remember LHO again during 1959 at Santa Ana when he was indeed there. Armstrong had the LHO “being different” thing highlighted, but Trail was referring to LHO showing off his superior knowledge to others which we know the historic Oswald did.

According to Marine Corps records, Oswald was released from the Marine brig

on August 13 and returned to active duty. A month later First Lieutenant William K.

Trail, assigned to the First Marine Air Wing, MAG II, MACS 1 in Atsugi, recalled that

when his group was preparing to depart for Taiwan Oswald and another Marine were

being held prisoners (Harvey, and possibly Paul Murphy?). Trail said the prisoners were

picked up by a "chaser" with a gun during transport to Taiwan in September.⁴⁷ But why?

 

According to Marine Corps records, Oswald was released from the brig a month

earlier, on August 13. Why would Oswald need to be picked up by a chaser with a gun

during transport to Taiwan on September 14--a month after his release from the brig?

Because Harvey Oswald, while waiting for the unit to depart for Taiwan, may

have been held in the Marine brig to keep him separate and apart from the Marines who

bunked and worked with Lee Oswald in Atsugi. His confinement would have allowed

him to safely depart for Taiwan with a different group of Marines who did not know Lee

Oswald.

 

None of the Marines who knew Lee Oswald in Atsugi, including Zack Stout,

Bobby Warren, and George Wilkins, accompanied Harvey Oswald to Taiwan. Harvey

was with a different group of Marines, who had no reason to question his identity. Some

of the same Marines who became acquainted with Harvey Oswald in Taiwan were sta­

tioned with him a few months later at MAGS 9 in Santa Ana, California.

 

--From Harvey and Lee, pp. 197-198, Copyright © 2003 by John Armstrong

1 hour ago, Michael Clark said:

Jim, do you have any idea if CE 1 was made public early-on?

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/pdf/WH16_CE_1.pdf

Cheers,

Michael

It’s just a guess, but since that Russian letter tended to make LHO look guilty for the Walker shooting, it might have been shown early, especially since Hoover knew the bullet evidence was bogus.  I was always suspicious of that letter, but there is a lot of other Russian-language stuff allegedly from Oswald in evidence.  It just doesn’t seem likely to me that Harvey Oswald would have learned that much by reading a Russian dictionary in his USMC spare time and spending 2-1/2 years working full-time in a Minsk factory.

De Mohrenschildt said Oswald preferred Russian to English and read Russian classics in the original Russian.  Hell, I had a hard time getting through War and Peace in English!

Of course, Vladimir Petrov, head of the Slavic Language Department at Yale University, had a different opinion.  In a letter to John Tower in regard from a letter purportedly written by Oswald, Petrov said, “ I am satisfied that letter was not written by him [Harvey Oswald]. It was written by a Russian with an imperfect knowledge of English.”

Petrov’s letter was written on Dec 8, 1963, a little more than two weeks after the  assassination.  Despite the fact that he said his opinion was “based on a quotation from his [Oswald’s] January 1962 letter,” Petrov’s letter surely wasn’t written in a vacuum, insulated from the news of the day.

In the days after the assassination, that weird voice of Harvey Oswald’s—hardly sounding like the accent of a Good Ole Boy born and raised in the American South—was all over the radio and television airwaves.  I doubt it could be missed, even in the high ivory tower of the Head of Slavic Languages at Yale.

I don’t know if any of the Russian writings of Harvey Oswald made it to the public immediately after the assassination, but if Petrov had a clue about Harvey’s uncommon mastery of the Russian language—which amazed the Russian immigrants in Dallas who met him—it would have given additional ammunition to his theory.  There seems little reason to believe Dr. Petrov’s basis for his opinion completely ignored the around-the-clock news coverage of the assassination.

2 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Of course, Walton and Parnell ignore the evidence that Harvey Oswald was isolated from other soldiers at Atsugi because he was being held in the brig.

Walton and Parnell also seem to be under the misconception that there isn’t a great deal of other evidence for Two Oswalds serving simultaneously in the USMC. Because of the careful record-keeping of the Marine Corps, it was impossible to hide all the conflicting records.  For example:
 

LEE OSWALD. In February, 1957 LEE Oswald took leave and resided with his tall, nice-looking mother in her apartment at 3830 W. 6th in Ft. Worth. Mrs. Oswald was working at Clyde Campbell's Men's Store in Ft. Worth. It was during this trip that LEE's brother, Robert Oswald, introduced him to his new wife (Vada) for the first time. Following his leave, LEE Oswald was assigned to the Naval Air Station (Aviation Fundamentals School) in Jacksonville, FL from March 18 through May 2. After graduating LEE Oswald and 5 other marines were ordered to report to Keesler Air Force Base in Biloxi, MS (radar school). They departed Jacksonville, FL by train on May 2 and arrived in Biloxi, MS on May 4. Marine Corps Unit Diary 105-57 (p 722) confirms that LEE Oswald departed Jacksonville for Biloxi, Mississippi on May 2. Daniel Patrick Powers was in charge of the 6-member group and, reading from his orders, told the Warren Commission that his group reported to the 3383rd student squadron, attended class # 08057 and received instruction in course # AB27037. After graduating on June 17 they were assigned military occupation specialty 6467--early warning system for radar. Curiously, and without explanation, the Course Curriculum, as published by the WC (Folsom Ex 1, p 117), shows that Powers' group received instruction in course # AB27730 and their class convened on April 24, 1957, eleven days before Powers and his group arrived in Biloxi.

HARVEY OSWALD. Allen Felde told the FBI that he and HARVEY Oswald remained in California (San Diego & Camp Pendleton) until May, 1957, and were then transferred to the A&P school in Jacksonville, FL. Marine Corps Unit Diary #104-57 (pp 719, 724) confirms that Felde arrived in Jacksonville, FL on May 2, 1957. These Marine Corps records show that Felde, and possibly HARVEY Oswald, arrived in Jacksonville, FL the same day that Powers, LEE Oswald, and their group departed Jacksonville for Keesler AFB in Biloxi, MS. Following the assassination of President Kennedy the Dallas Police found a 7-page handwritten account of Oswald's background. HARVEY wrote that he had served in San Diego, CA from October 1956, to April, 1957 and at Camp Pendleton in April and May, 1957. Felde's statement to the FBI, HARVEY Oswald's handwritten chronology, and the Marine Corps Unit diary confirm that Oswald (HARVEY) and Felde were in California and did not arrive in Jacksonville, FL until May 2, 1957. Their assignments at Camp Pendleton, California through May 2 contradict both Marine Corp records and the WC who said that Oswald was in Jacksonville, FL from March 18 through May 2. In other words, HARVEY Oswald and Felde were in ITR training in California while LEE Oswald, Powers, and members of their group were at Aviation Fundamentals School in Jacksonville, FL.

For those unaware of the sheer volume of evidence for two different Lee Harvey Oswalds serving simultaneously in the USMC,  see the massive amount of documentation presented in Harvey and Lee.

Bumped for Michael Walton.  Do you think you could possibly answer your own question if you just read the FBI report above?

9 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

I just learned that the Two Oswalds notion has a long and rich history. I just read this fascinating thread, in which, it is shown that Jim Garrison (JG) was already, apparently, treating it as a foregone conclusion.

"The facts are these: On a Sunday morning JG called me at my Mill Valley home. He was staying at an airport hotel in Los Angeles and wanted me to catch a plane so we could "brainstorm" some things. One of them, it turned out, was the variance in height between the "Oswald" in the Soviet Union and the American one. As I was prepasring to fly back to San Francisco, JG asked if I would accompany Boxley, who was with him, on some interviews the ffollowing day. I agreed to go along because it is desirable to have two on interviews and there was no one else available in Los Angeles."

P.6 http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/5333-angel-murgado-angelo-kennedy/&page=6

 

You’re right, Michael.  Profound questions about Two Oswalds have been part of JFK assassination conspiracy research almost since the beginning.  For example, one of the most highly regarded of the early Warren Commission critics was Sylvia Meagher.  Her book, Accessories After the Fact, was published in 1967.

Senator Richard S. Schweiker, then a member of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, reviewed Meaher’s book this way.  “By far the most meticulous and compelling indictment of the Warren Commission Report ever made.  The significance of this book cannot be overstated.”

Accessories After the Fact has a whole section devoted to Two Oswalds.  Here is the start of it:

 

As you say, Jim Garrison understood a great deal about the two Oswalds.  One caution though is that his aide Bill Boxley, as Jim Di reminded me a few years ago, turned out to be a plant, though a very skilled one.

42 minutes ago, Michael Walton said:

You are correct on this point. They have the two men together at different points in time when they could have been easily noticed. All it would have taken is one person to see something funny was going on and the plot is ruined.

Can you  imagine the thousands  upon thousands of soldiers coming  and  going and not a single one mentioned  or has ever testified  of seeing  a guy looking  exactly  like Oswald? I've  yet to read a one statement  regarding  this.

And yet Hargrove  will come  back and say "Well it was all a ruse. They didn't  really look that much a like. And the Moms didn't  either. Well, they did but...not really."

And then he'll  say but wait look at the records! And then Larsen will say yeah he was given a pap smear but it couldn't  be because  they don't  do that on ships because doctors weren't  on ships. But they were....just not on that ship.

The yarn spinning  just  never  ends.

Of course, Walton and Parnell ignore the evidence that Harvey Oswald was isolated from other soldiers at Atsugi because he was being held in the brig.

Walton and Parnell also seem to be under the misconception that there isn’t a great deal of other evidence for Two Oswalds serving simultaneously in the USMC. Because of the careful record-keeping of the Marine Corps, it was impossible to hide all the conflicting records.  For example:
 

LEE OSWALD. In February, 1957 LEE Oswald took leave and resided with his tall, nice-looking mother in her apartment at 3830 W. 6th in Ft. Worth. Mrs. Oswald was working at Clyde Campbell's Men's Store in Ft. Worth. It was during this trip that LEE's brother, Robert Oswald, introduced him to his new wife (Vada) for the first time. Following his leave, LEE Oswald was assigned to the Naval Air Station (Aviation Fundamentals School) in Jacksonville, FL from March 18 through May 2. After graduating LEE Oswald and 5 other marines were ordered to report to Keesler Air Force Base in Biloxi, MS (radar school). They departed Jacksonville, FL by train on May 2 and arrived in Biloxi, MS on May 4. Marine Corps Unit Diary 105-57 (p 722) confirms that LEE Oswald departed Jacksonville for Biloxi, Mississippi on May 2. Daniel Patrick Powers was in charge of the 6-member group and, reading from his orders, told the Warren Commission that his group reported to the 3383rd student squadron, attended class # 08057 and received instruction in course # AB27037. After graduating on June 17 they were assigned military occupation specialty 6467--early warning system for radar. Curiously, and without explanation, the Course Curriculum, as published by the WC (Folsom Ex 1, p 117), shows that Powers' group received instruction in course # AB27730 and their class convened on April 24, 1957, eleven days before Powers and his group arrived in Biloxi.

HARVEY OSWALD. Allen Felde told the FBI that he and HARVEY Oswald remained in California (San Diego & Camp Pendleton) until May, 1957, and were then transferred to the A&P school in Jacksonville, FL. Marine Corps Unit Diary #104-57 (pp 719, 724) confirms that Felde arrived in Jacksonville, FL on May 2, 1957. These Marine Corps records show that Felde, and possibly HARVEY Oswald, arrived in Jacksonville, FL the same day that Powers, LEE Oswald, and their group departed Jacksonville for Keesler AFB in Biloxi, MS. Following the assassination of President Kennedy the Dallas Police found a 7-page handwritten account of Oswald's background. HARVEY wrote that he had served in San Diego, CA from October 1956, to April, 1957 and at Camp Pendleton in April and May, 1957. Felde's statement to the FBI, HARVEY Oswald's handwritten chronology, and the Marine Corps Unit diary confirm that Oswald (HARVEY) and Felde were in California and did not arrive in Jacksonville, FL until May 2, 1957. Their assignments at Camp Pendleton, California through May 2 contradict both Marine Corp records and the WC who said that Oswald was in Jacksonville, FL from March 18 through May 2. In other words, HARVEY Oswald and Felde were in ITR training in California while LEE Oswald, Powers, and members of their group were at Aviation Fundamentals School in Jacksonville, FL.

For those unaware of the sheer volume of evidence for two different Lee Harvey Oswalds serving simultaneously in the USMC,  see the massive amount of documentation presented in Harvey and Lee.

On 4/4/2017 at 9:29 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

From a USS Skagit Timeline on this webpage:

"Departed Sept.14 and ran into Typhoon Helen, very rough seas, and giant waves. Arrived Kaoshung, Formosa on Sept,19 unloaded matting continuously for 48 hours."

Greg says that the ship was delayed by two days because of Typhoon Helen. He pointed out that the Skagit crewman who wrote the above must have used the same source (the ship logs) for the date of departure as he did for his book, but that the logs are wrong.

I still don't know what the source is for the later departure date. The typhoon did hit its peak wind speed of 117 mph on the 14th. But at that time it hadn't hit Japan yet. I don't have any idea if they would have delayed the departure date of the ship. Either way the ship would have gone right through the path of the typhoon. (Source)

 

Great find on the Skagit timeline, Sandy!  The information on the typhoon and rough seas could not have been obtained from the 9/14/58 unit diary and was clearly written with an awareness of both the actual sail date and the weather.

As you probably already know, there is no original source for the alleged delay of the sail date, just government dissembling two decades later.  Parker, of course, is grasping at this straw:

It is the letter and one of the enclosures the HSCA received from the Sec. Def. office after Blakey delicately asked Secretary of Defense Ron Brown to explain the conflicting documents we’re talking about here.  Just so everyone understands this, Greg Parker’s ever-evolving excuses for Oswald’s simultaneous appearances in Japan and Taiwan (and en route)  currently centers on the barely supported claim that the Skagit left Japan not on Sept. 14, 1958, as the USMC Unit Diary and other records clearly indicate, but two days later.  Why? Because of these two sentences supplied by Sec. Def. two decades after the event:

“Oswald did not sale from Yokosuka, Japan on September 16, 1958.  He remained aboard NAS, Atsugi as part of the MAG-II rear echelon.”

Faced with the complete exposure of the Oswald Project, the Office of Secretary of Defense and Blakey’s HSCA had no choice but to fabricate history.  The HSCA report reads as follows (emphasis added by me):

The Department of Defense specifically stated that 'Oswald did not sail from Yokosuka,
Japan on September 16, 1958. He remained aboard NAS Atsugi as part of the MAG-
11 rear echelon.' Accordingly, based upon a direct examination of Oswald's unit diaries,
as well as his own-military records, it does not appear that he had spent any time in
Taiwan. This finding is contrary to that of the Warren Commission that Oswald arrived
with his unit in Taiwan on September 30, 1958, and remained there somewhat less than
a week, but the Commission's analysis apparently was made without access to the unit
diaries of MAG 11.

How can the above paragraph be considered as anything other than a flat-out lie?  The unit diaries prove just the opposite of what the HSCA claimed, namely that one LHO DID sail from Yokosuka, Japan (but on Sept. 14, 1958, not Sept. 16) and DID spent several weeks on Taiwan.  The other LHO remained at the Atsugi base and was treated for VD.