Jim Hargrove

2 hours ago, Michael Walton said:

I really don't see what the big deal is here.  Take a look at this:

http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/1953.html

My mother, who cleaned a realtor's office two nights a week to make extra money, told me that my Dad only made $1.50 an hour back then. They managed to buy a home and sell it and buy another one through the years. This was the midwest (Kentucky). But things were cheap back then.

And she told me too that she could go down to the bank and get a loan with pretty much a hand shake, not like today.

But to think this woman couldn't have done this and only would have been able to do is if some secret agency was behind it all to support her is silly.  It's a huge leap of fath to think that.

A perfect example, Michael… except for a couple of details.

Your mother had a husband when they bought a house together.  Marguerite was a single mom. Did your mother and father own two or three homes simultaneously, and live in a different place?  That’s what Marguerite did.

Had your mother placed you and all your siblings in an orphanage just a few years before?  Is that the type of family bankers are seeking to make “handshake” agreements to purchase three different homes?

As usual, Parnell points to Greg Parker’s private website pretending an answer is there.  Parnell is too ashamed to put arguments  into his own words because he knows how feeble they are.  This is exactly the way he handled the simultaneous attendance of Oswald at PS 44 in New York City and Beauregard JHS in New Orleans.  He has no answers, and so he pretends Greg Parker does.

Use your own words, Tracy.  Stop hiding behind Greg Parker!  Speak up!

1 hour ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

Parker points out that if the Skagit left on the 16th (there was a typhoon in the area) LHO was treated at Atsugi on that day and on the Skagit thereafter until returning to Atsugi about October 6.

Yeah, and if the Skagit left yesterday, it would probably sink.  If you want to talk about reality, the Skagit clearly left on Sept. 14, 1958.

The only so-called evidence you guys can put forth is a letter written two decades later from Sec. Def. saying, “Oswald did not sail from Yokosuka, Japan, on September 16, 1958.”  Duh!

According to this page on Wikipedia, there were a total of 16 Americans who defected to the Soviet Union, though the article says the list may not reflect “recent changes.”  The list includes Oswald and Robert Webster.  The Wikipedia page has a sublist of “American intelligence personnel who defected to the Soviet Union,” which includes seven names, but neither Webster nor Oswald.  If you add those two names to the “intelligence personnel” list, a very reasonable move, the total now goes up to nine, more than half the complete roster, but still a very limited number.

In Parnell's post about Dr. Norwood's new paragraph related to Marguerite's finances, he puts his foot in his mouth when he suggests that Marguerite did not "lose" her divorce case.  While he cites the $1,500 court settlement, he clearly has not studied the evidence as presented in the Warren Commission hearings.  If he had studied the transcript, he would have learned that most of the settlement money Marguerite received went toward legal costs for the divorce.  Above all, the court decided against her in awarding monthly payments from Eckdahl.  For the most important issue being litigated, Marguerite was denied the financial stability she had enjoyed with Eckdahl during the marriage.  Yet to examine her business transactions from 1947-51 on the surface, one would never guess that she was experiencing any hardship.  But once again, the documentary record (especially Marguerite's letter to John Pic describing her poverty) makes it abundantly clear that Marguerite did not have the kind of discretionary income implied by Parnell.  

Parnell also makes the unsubstantiated claim that Marguerite reaped tremendous profits on shrewd property investments.  But he provides no documentation for the enormous proceeds that he alleges Marguerite received.  Nor does he explain how Marguerite could sell properties so fast while "flipping" her home purchases and earning capital gains on homes like Birchman for which she had overpaid at the time of purchase.  The evidence points to quick sales and, in the case of the transaction with San Saba, Marguerite incurred a substantial loss.

Tommy,

I agree about Morales.

Petrov’s letter was written on Dec 8, 1963, a little more than two weeks after the assassination.  Despite the fact that he said his opinion was “based on a quotation from his [Oswald’s] January 1962 letter,” Petrov’s letter surely wasn’t written in a vacuum, insulated from the news of the day.

In the days after the assassination, that weird voice of Harvey Oswald’s—hardly sounding like the accent of a Good Ole Boy born and raised in the American South—was all over the radio and television airwaves.  I doubt it could be missed, even in the high ivory tower of the Head of Slavic Languages at Yale.

I don’t know if any of the Russian writings of Harvey Oswald made it to the public immediately after the assassination, but if Petrov had a clue about Harvey’s uncommon mastery of the Russian language—which amazed the Russian immigrants in Dallas who met him—it would have given additional ammunition to his theory.  There seems little reason to believe Dr. Petrov’s basis for his opinion completely ignored the around-the-clock news coverage of the assassination.

Sandy,

I hadn’t looked at this story in years, and Morales was the first thought that jumped into my mind from the description of Moore’s scar.  Despite Sewell’s description of Oswald, Harvey was clearly in Russia at the time of the Bolton Ford incident, so it was either Lee or, as you say, someone else using Oswald’s name.   (Did you notice “Oswald” was written on the bid? It’s kind of squeezed in.  I forgot to mention that.)

I think the original Oswald Project was a smashing success!  Despite the fact that Russian authorities clearly believed he was a spy, Harvey managed to stay in Russia for two and a half years and write an absolutely brilliant report on the Lives of Russian Workers.  It’s been hiding in plain sight in the Warren Volumes for more than 50 years.  In the early 1960s, that report surely contained a vast amount of useful information for our intelligence agencies.

The Bolton Ford Incident

On January 20, 1961, while Harvey Oswald was in Minsk, two men visited the Bolton Ford dealership in New Orleans. They spoke with Assistant Manager Oscar Deslatte and said they were interested in purchasing 10 Ford Econoline Trucks. As one of the men discussed the purchase with Deslatte the other man, who identified himself as Joseph Moore, made a list of the equipment they desired on the trucks.

Deslatte went to his boss, truck manager Fred Sewell, and told him about the two men who wanted to purchase trucks and said they represented the "Free Democrats of Cuba or some such organization." Sewell told Deslatte to give the men a bid of $75 over their cost for the trucks. Deslatte and Sewell returned to Deslatte's desk and wrote out a bid form to Joseph Moore. As Deslatte was filling out the bid form, Joseph Moore and the other man began talking to both Deslatte and Sewell.⁴²

When Moore saw that Deslatte had written his name on the bid form he asked that the name be changed to "Friends of Democratic Cuba." Moore's friend looked· at the form and said, "By the way, you'd better put my name down there because I'm the man handling the money." When Deslatte asked, "What's your name?" the man replied, "Lee Oswald." ^61-04

Sewell described Lee Oswald as, "5-foot-6 or 5-foot-7, thin, about 140 pounds, and thought he needed a meal and a haircut. He recalled that Oswald was clean but "wasn't well dressed and he wasn't shabby." Sewell described the second man, who identified himself as Joseph Moore as, "Kind of heavy-set ..... not overly, but well built ..... he was curly haired ..... he had a scar over his left eye ..... olive complexioned and seemed to be educated ..... he had a Cuban accent and looked like a Cuban."

Deslatte gave the original bid form to "Lee Oswald" and kept a copy for his files, which he gave to the FBI following the assassination.^61-05

The purchaser was listed as the "Friends of Democratic Cuba," 402 St. Charles Street, New Orleans, LA., phone number JA-5-0763.⁴³ After talking with Deslate for over an hour the two men took the original bid form and left.

NOTE: The Friends of Democratic Cuba was incorporated on January 9, 1961 in

Louisiana. The address of 402 St. Charles Street was listed as vacant in the 1960, 1961

and 1962 New Orleans City directories.

--Above excerpted from Harvey and Lee, pp. 325-326, Copyright © 2003 by John Armstrong

Remarkable about the “Friends of Democratic Cuba” were the names of two of its officers. The image shown below is a composite scan from the beginning and the end of the Louisiana Articles of Incorporation for Friends of Democratic Cuba, Inc.

W. Guy Banister worked at the infamous 544 Camp Street address in New Orleans, made famous by the Jim Garrison investigation.

Gerard Tugague employed Oswald briefly in late 1955 and early 1956 at the 300 Sanlin Building in New Orleans.

On our website John Armstrong wrote, “This well-known incident was cited in Warren Commission Document 75 p. 677 and the House Select Committee on Assassinations Vol. X; FBI 67-39565-66. For years some JFK researchers believed that an impostor was using Oswald's name while the alleged future assassin was in Russia. As more and more examples surfaced it became clear that another man, using the name "Lee Harvey Oswald," was associating with anti-Castro Cubans and CIA operatives in the southern United States during the very years the Warren Commission placed him in the Soviet Union. This man was southern born LEE Oswald, and is a clear indication that both Oswalds were active in American intelligence operations.”

There are other examples of LEE Oswald operating in the U.S. while HARVEY Oswald was in Russia. For an overview, see THIS PAGE on HarveyandLee.net.

Below is a copy of the FBI report covering this incident. Compare it to the Garrison interview excerpted above.

2 hours ago, Michael Walton said:

To Michael Walton: You really need to try to understand what it is you’re trying to debunk.  If you simply looked at the USMC docs presented in thread,  you  would see how both Oswalds had the same service numbers.  How could it be otherwise?

That's  exactly my point. So was it the military  who started this whole clone caper even going back several years when he was a pre-teen? Or was it a spy team working  in conjunction  with the military?

And if neither entity wanted this  clone caper to be discovered  I think they would have done  a  much  better  job covering  their tracks. Instead  they just left two clones walking  around  letting  duplicate  records be generated  and to be discovered  years later by John Armstrong.

This was clearly an intelligence operation which sought some cooperation from the USMC.  It’s no secret that CIA people sometimes posed as military personnel.  From a newspaper article I posted several pages back in this thread:

An American field officer with a distinguished combat career speaks angrily about "that man at headquarters in Saigon wearing a colonel's uniform." He means the man is a CIA agent, and he can't understand what he is doing at U.S. military headquarters here, unless it is spying on other Americans. (Richard Starnes, “”Spooks’ Make Life Miserable for Ambassador Lode,” Washington Daily News, 10/2/63,  p. 3)

The handlers of the Oswald Project only thought they had to fool the Soviets, and any Soviet spies in the U.S. who might start sniffing around “Oswald’s” biographical data once the false defection started in 1959.  They had no idea this project would eventually become entangled in the Kennedy Assassination in 1963.  That’s when all of this stuff was suddenly placed under a microscope.  Who could have expected such scrutiny earlier?

No, Tracy, you and Parker conveniently leave out of your “timeline” the in-person visit of Lee Oswald to several different buildings at the USMC Atsugi medical complex on Sept. 16, 1958, two days after Harvey Oswald left for Taiwan aboard the Skagit.  You also leave out Lee’s visits on Sept. 20, 22, and 23rd.  Why is that? The Sept. 16 visit is quite well known.  Leaving that inconvenient date off a timeline suggests someone is trying to hide the truth.

To Michael Walton: You really need to try to understand what it is you’re trying to debunk.  If you simply looked at the USMC docs presented in thread,  you  would see how both Oswalds had the same service numbers.  How could it be otherwise?  The Agency’s plan was for one fellow (Russian-speaking Harvey) to take the place of the other (American-born Lee) to fool the Soviets into thinking he (Harvey) had been a real Marine with real secrets to divulge.  How would that possibly work if the two young men had different ID numbers?

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Jim,

As I said, corpsmen might be  trained to do simple smear test, but very unlikely a culture & sensitivity test. That would be something done by a medical lab.

But when all is said and done, none of this really matters. Because as you said... and I see it now... that Sept. 16 smear test was performed at a Mainside lab. In the row right above the one stamped "Sept. 16, 1958," is the handwritten note "to mainside for smear." Mainside is the name often used for the part of a military base where administrative offices, shops, hospitals, and housing are located. Had Oswald been at sea, it would have been very difficult indeed for his sample to be taken to a Mainside lab.

See where it says "to mainside for smear?" And "To Lab for Smear?"
 

 

In this forum, a G.S. Jeziorski wrote:

"I was an Aerial Photo Tech with the squadron (Every man a tiger) from 1956 to 1958 when it was disbanded and reformed stateside as VMCJ-1 at El Toro. Being a short-timer, I was temporarily assigned to the Naval photo lab at mainside Atsugi until we were sent to Taiwan where I served until September, 1958. I then was sent stateside to await discharge."

Does anybody think this guy was onboard a ship at sea when he was assigned to the Naval photo lab at Mainside Atsugi?

I think this issue has been settled

 

Exactly.  Lee Oswald was clearly at the Atsugi Hospital personally on 9/16/58, just as Donabedian testified. Harvey Oswald’s ship sailed out of Yokosuka (near Atsugi) on 9/14/58 and Lee Oswald was personally at the Atsugi hospital two days later… and a number of days immediately thereafter. Two Oswalds!

This isn’t rocket science.  It’s just the endless static from Parnell/Parker and their little Amen Corner that makes it seem difficult.  It isn’t.

I think the issue has been settled as well.  I’ll start in with another gem from the H&L website tomorrow.  Megathanks to Tommy G for starting this thread.

1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

I checked out Greg Parker's arguments. Here they are along with my responses:

1. Greg contacted a former Skagit crew member, who reported back the following:
   
   "Skagit had a fully equipped and staffed sick bay. Treatment for NSU (Non-specific urethritis) and the Clap ( Gonorrhea) only required Penicillin and restriction to the ship (no liberty)."
   
   Well there's no surprise there. I've already reported that today's Skagit-class ships have a sick bay and are staffed with a couple of corpsmen, but no doctors. (And I assumed that they were no different 50 years ago.) Greg's contact mentions no doctor. I said that, if there is no doctor, there likely would be no lab. Greg's contact mentions no lab. That they have penicillin is no surprise to me. I'm sure they have several other commonly prescribed drugs on board as well.
    
2. Greg claims that a specific WWII era Australian ship -- the Whang Pu -- had "accessory services such as those for pathological work."
   
   The link to the source doesn't work, so I couldn't confirm it. But it's irrelevant anyway. Just because the Australian government provides something doesn't mean the American government does as well.
    
3. Greg says that the "[medical] record for October 6 has the hand-written notation that Oswald had been 'doing heavy lifting recently.' Oswald’s duties at Atsugi required no such heavy lifting. That was not the case when the Skagit docked at Kaohsiung where the work was all heavy lifting." And therefore this indicates that Oswald was indeed aboard the ship during the period of treatment.
   
   I'm sorry, but I cannot believe that Greg could possibly know whether or not Oswald did any heavy lifting while at Atsugi Naval Base.
    
4. Greg says, " When you go to a doctor, by the reasoning of these people [Hargrove,etc.], your address should be noted as the address where the consultation took place. "
   
   I find it odd that Greg put the least amount of effort in this, his final argument. Because it is the only one that makes some sense.
   
   He's essentially saying that the stamped-on code, "NAS Navy 3835" in Oswald's case, refers to the patient's address, not the address of the facility treating him. In other words, where the patient is stationed. I don't know whether that is true or not, but it does seem reasonable.

So I plan on taking #4 off the list of evidence I made a few days ago.

However, first I would like Jim Hargrove to weigh in on this. Specifically about Oswald's treatment at the other hospital near Atsugi Naval Base. That hospital has a different four-digit designation. If that hospital's number was stamped on Oswald's medical record, that would tell us that the number designates where the patient is treated. If, on the other hand, the Atsugi 3835 number was stamped on the record, that would tel us that the number designates where the patient is stationed.

What say you, Jim?

 

Sandy,

Sorry for the rushed post, but I have very limited time today.

It will probably take hours to look through all the USMC medical stuff available to see if there is anything resembling what you’re looking for.  But it is hardly necessary, because it’s clear that these records were created for a patient at the Atsugi hospital, not on a boat.

Most of these records we’ve been examining were published as part of the Donabedian Exhibit by the Warren Commission.  Donabedian testified on May 1, 1964, and clearly indicated that Oswald was not on a boat when these tests were made.  (See boldfaced remarks below.)

Mr. ELY - I would like at this point to refer you to pages 152 through 156 of this exhibit. 
I shall let you proceed to explain what these mean without questioning. 
Captain DONABEDIAN - On 9- 10- 58, slight burning on urination. "Has urethral discharge." 
Mr. ELY - Well, if you cannot read it, there is no point-- -- 
Captain DONABEDIAN - Then they took a smear. 
Mr. ELY - What is the purpose of a smear? 
Captain DONABEDIAN - A smear is to diagnose the cause of the infection, the cause of the discharge, to see what type of bacteria was present. 
And on 9- 23- 58, report of a urethral discharge sensitivity test. A culture was taken and reported staphylococcal hemolytic. And the sensitivity test to determine what drug we have that will affect that particular bacteria that is causing this. And erythromycin was the drug of choice. 

On page 154, on 16 September 58 he evidently went to one of the outlying dispensaries, and they said "Send to the mainside for smear," which means he was sent to the main side dispensary to get the smear taken. 

September 1958, the complaint was urethral discharge. They sent him to the lab for a smear. 
And here it says, "Gram negative, diplococci intra- and extra- cellular morphological resembling neisseria gonococci." 
Mr. ELY - Could you tell us, Doctor, generally, what that means? 
Captain DONABEDIAN - Well, this resembles the gonococcus bacteria which causes gonorrhea. And it says here morphologically resembling this germ-- since the only legal diagnosis would be to have a culture made to prove this or disprove it. 
And here for his treatment they gave him penicillin, it looks like 400,000units, four times a day, for 3 days, and said "Return on Monday in the p.m., for a repeat smear."
Then on September 30, 1958, "Still has profuse discharge, somewhat clearer,received course of penicillin ending 2 days ago." 
In other words, he had finished getting his penicillin. So for this profuse discharge, they treated him with chloromycetin capsules, one, four times a day,and return Monday for smear and culture. Then on September 22-- -- 
Mr. ELY - I believe the last item was September 20. 

The medical records continue to show that, while Harvey Oswald was en route to Taiwan, LEE Oswald was still at Atsugi Sept. 20 and 22 and 23.  A smear and culture was taken on the 22nd and the culture results of the 23rd indicated the presence of “micrococcus pyogenes vas aurens.”   You think that was done on a boat?

Are we seriously to believe that the culture and  the “micrococcus pyogenes vas aurens” lab result were obtained by a couple of marine graduates of a first aid course or two aboard the Skagit?  Seriously?

When Tracy Parnell gets in trouble and can’t explain away the evidence for two Oswalds, he tends to provide a link to a private website run by Greg Parker, pretending the answer is there.  Parnell did so when he couldn’t explain how Oswald could go to school simultaneously New York City and New Orleans, and he is doing so again now regarding “Oswald” in Taiwan and Japan simultaneously. 

At the site linked by Parnell, Parker claims, without even providing a name, that he has contacted someone from the U.S.S. Skagit.  I guess we have to trust him that he has actually done so.  And so the question becomes, how trustworthy is Greg Parker?
 
Here's one example.  On May 30, 2015, Parker made a post on this forum claiming that photo files I had made available to forum members contained the Delta Home virus.

Parker went on to make other claims about how much he was suffering from the malware I had inflicted on him.  I knew this was unlikely because I had already scanned the files for malware before uploading them to a temporary directory at HarveyandLee.net.  

But I decided to go one step further and contact the support team at my website’s host, an outfit called Bluehost.  We had a lengthy text chat about Parker’s imaginary virus, and after it was completed indicating the files contained no malware, Bluehost sent me a transcript of the chat.  Here are some excerpts:
 

Chat ID: 4590482. Question: Provider: Bluehost - My Domain is: "HarveyandLee.net" Hi, I put up three .jpg files in a temporary directory this morning, and someone who doesn't like me claims they contain the Delta Homes virus. I see no evidence this is true. Is there anyway your server checks for this? The files are in the directory xxxxx/Temp and are named: FWST.jpg WW-Photo-1.jpg WW-Photo-2.jpg

....

11:24:53amJames

Okay you are verified. Let us see what I can do for you. Give me just a moment to look at them, and see what I can find. I'll also get a malware scan running if I don't see anything directly.

11:25:33amJim Hargrove

Thank you! I ran the latest version of ClamAV on all three files before uploading, and came up "no threats"

11:27:59amJames

They don't seem to look bad to me, either. Just a moment, making sure with a scan.

11:34:12amJames

Other than them being very interesting from a historical standpoint, I'm not seeing any evidence of malware or a virus on them. Let me get Terms of Service to run a deeper scan, see if there's something else. Will take me a moment to contact them.

....

12:04:45pmJames Scan's aren't showing any malware, from what we're seeing.

No one else on the forum complained about a virus.  It was obvious Parker was just making this up.  Later that same day, Don Jeffries summarized the silly business this way:

And now, what will happen to Greg Parker, after he warned people not to click on the links Jim Hargrove posted on the Frankenstein picture thread? These were harmless, legitimate links, provided by Jim in order to further the debate. Maybe Greg'a computer is different from all others, and strangely susceptible to viruses that don't exist. The alternative is that Greg was falsely labeling Jm's links as dangerous, when clearly they weren't. Imagine how Greg would respond to someone saying that about any links that he provided. I can hear the demands for a public apology now. Maybe he'd even start one of those dramatic "countdowns" he tried to use once with me. Regardless, you will never see an apology from Greg on this or any other forum.

See Don’s post HERE.

Really trustworthy guy, that Greg Parker.  I can see why Tracy Parnell relies on him when the going gets tough!

Hmmm....

As far as I can tell, Greg Parker is banned from this website.  That's why W. Tracy Parnell can only point to G Parker's bullsh!t.  Is G. Parker just making up his sources, AGAIN? Of course he is!   Why doesn't Parker just NAME his source?  Can't we learn who it is?  I didn't think so!

To W. Tracy Parnell....

Here's a real chance for you to put Greg Parker's "evidence" into your own words explaining how "LHO" attended PS 44 in New York City and Beauregard Junior High School in New Orleans at the same time.  You keep telling us Parker has an "explanation."  Why don't you put that "evidence" into your own words RIGHT HERE?  RIGHT NOW?

Nah, it won't happen.  Your Parker links are bs.....

What utter nonsense from Parnell.  

Marguerite was so destitute in the early 1940s that by late 1942 all three of her children were in orphanages.  On January 3, 1942 Marguerite removed John and Robert from school and placed them in the Evangelical Lutheran Bethleham Orphan Asylum located at 5413 North Peters Street in New Orleans. She tried to place Lee there as well, but the home wouldn't accept him because he was just two years old. On December 26, 1942, after Lee had lived at the Murret's home for 7 months, Marguerite successfully placed him (now at the age of three) in the same Evangelical Lutheran Bethleham Orphan Asylum with John and Robert.

Marguerite was too poor to house and feed any of her three children. Robert E. Lee Oswald had died in 1939; the insurance payout Parnell points to with such pride was clearly long gone before Marguerite had to place all her children in an orphanage due to her extreme poverty.

Her marriage to Ekdahl helped temporarily but soon dissolved; the tiny settlement could have hardly helped her to become so successful she could own three homes in her own name and live at other addresses as well. What bank in the 1940s would give a cash-strapped single mother like her mortgages to buy three homes? What bank would do that today? Marguerite was clearly not a successful businesswoman at any point in her life, but at the start of the Oswald Project she flourished like one.

Parnell has not begun to explain how that happened.

Dr. Norwood has just added the following paragraph to his Legend article, emphasizing how Marguerite's financial situation improved dramatically and inexplicably in the late 1940s....

Between 1947-51, Marguerite purchased three different homes in the Fort Worth area.  By early 1951, she was apparently making payments on and maintaining the three properties concurrently.  During this period, she also experienced a financial setback from a  divorce in which, according to John Pic’s Warren Commission testimony, Marguerite came out on the losing end of the court's decree, despite the alleged philandering and physical abuse of Edwin Eckdahl.  Pic recalled that “I was told by her that she was contesting the divorce so that he would still support her.  She lost, he won.” (WCH, XI, 29)  With no monthly payments from Eckdahl, Marguerite was completely on her own in financing the three homes during this four-year stretch.  This raises the concern about how she could have made the down payments, met monthly financial obligations, and sustained the upkeep of the three properties, while continuing to pay rent at other residences.  The timing of the earliest evidence of the two Oswald boys and the two Marguerites during the pre-New York years begs the question of how Marguerite came into the funds to enable her to play Monopoly on this scale.

16 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

Tommy, is it not a matter of degrees? You have said that you accept a second Oswald, but do not accept a plan for grooming two Oswalds as long as a decade before; correct me if I am wrong. It seems to me that you are attacking the whole theory because you cannot accept its depth and breadth. Can you say where you draw the line, with some specifity, and without prejudice to the larger theory?

I steered clear of this whole thing for a while. But then I independently came upon situations such as the one at The Furniture Mart. I have tried but I get no satisfactory explanations for such stories.

Cheers,

Michael

As you continue studying the evidence for two different young men sharing the identity of “Lee Harvey Oswald,” consider the broad outlines John Armstrong has built from thousands of individual details:

Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald was given the identity of American-born Lee Oswald, allowed to sample parts of Lee’s life for roughly a decade, and then sent to Russia with an American ID.  But sometime in the spring or summer of 1963, the “Oswald Project” got misdirected.  In the weeks before the assassination of JFK,  Lee framed Harvey for the hit.

The more prominent examples of this were when Lee Oswald made appearances at the following places, identifying himself by name whenever possible….

The Sports Drome Rifle Range on Oct. 26, Nov. 9, Nov. 10, and again on Nov. 17, several times creating a scene and once shooting at another guy's target.

Morgan's Gun Shop in Fort Worth on Nov 2.

The Downtown Lincoln Mercury dealership also on Nov. 2 where he test drove a car at wrecklessly high speeds saying he would soon come into enough money to buy a new car.

The Irving Furniture Mart On Nov. 6 or 7 for a gun part where he was referred to the shop where Dial Ryder worked.

The Southland Hotel parking garage (Allright Parking Systems) on Nov. 15 to apply for a job and oh-so-subtly ask how high the Southland Building was and if it had a good view of downtown Dallas.

Hitchhiking on Nov. 20 on the R.L. Thornton Expressway while carrying a 4-foot long package wrapped in brown paper and introducing himself to Ralph Yates as “Lee Harvey Oswald.” He discussed the President's visit, wondered if you could shoot a president, and asked to be dropped across the street from the Texas School Book Depository (where Russian-speaking “Lee Harvey Oswald” was already at work).

The 1973 motion picture “Executive Action” with Burt Lancaster and Robert Ryan.  It does a great job showing how an “Oswald” look-alike traveled around Dallas in the weeks before the assassination doing many of the things listed above. 

22 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

Doctor Larsen,

I wonder if the following would have any bearing on the issue at hand (pardon the pun).

" 13. Technically, there is no legal proof that Oswald had gonorrhea because the doctors took a smear rather than a culture.  Dr. Donabedian testified (8H313-14) that normally the doctors would use the smear method and, if the results appeared to be gonorrhea, would just assume it was and treat it as such, regardless of whether it might actually have been a different bacteria involved."

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/vd.htm#N_13_

 

--  Tommy

 

On March 31, 1964 Staff Medical Officer Captain George Donabedian told Warren Commission staff attorney John Hart Ely the Marine Corps Medical records clearly showed that Oswald had contacted gonorrhea.

15 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Let's tabulate the evidence.

Evidence that the treatments were given onshore:

• Most of the treatments are stamped "NAS Navy 3835," the designator used for the Naval Air Station at Atsugi. Surely the ship would have had its own designator. That only makes sense.
• The top of the medical records are marked "East Camp." That sounds like an onshore description, not a description of being onboard a ship.
• Small ships like the USS Skagit do not have doctors today, and likely would not have 50 years ago either. A ship without a doctor surely would be one without a lab as well. Since the first prescription for a smear test specifically states "To Lab for Smear," the sample must have gone to an onshore lab. (It's possible that Navy Corpsmen were trained to do simple smear tests. So I won't consider that as evidence for onshore treatment.)
• Oswald was treated by a doctor (Dr. Kuehn). Given that doctors aren't assigned to small ships now, and likely wouldn't have been 50 years ago, it is likely that Oswald was treated onshore by Dr. Kuehn. At Atsugi.
   

Evidence that the treatments were given onboard the USS Skagit:

• None. Except that Oswald would have to be in two places at once. Unless there were two of him.

 

Every examination of the evidence for LEE Oswald's VD treatments at Atsugi (while HARVEY Oswald was en route/stationed at Taiwan) should include the fact that, when confronted with the Atsugi medical evidence, the Office of the Secretary of Defense decided it had no choice but to lie to the HSCA.

Anyone who wants to claim there is an innocent explanation for the record conflicts had better come up with an equally innocent explanation for Sec Def's obvious untruth above. 

Myrtle Evans and her husband Julian were friends with the real Marguerite Oswald for nearly three decades. Included in Julian Evans' April 7, 1964 WC testimony was this exchange with Jenner (emphasis added):  

Mr. JENNER - Give me your impression of Marguerite Oswald.
Mr. EVANS - Marguerite?
Mr. JENNER - Yes.
Mr. EVANS - I think she's a fine woman, myself, a fine woman; intelligent, very soft spoken - a beautiful woman, with black hair streaked with a little gray, but when you saw her on television since this thing happened, she really looked awful; nothing at all like she used to look. She has really aged. She looked like a charwoman, compared to what she used to look like. She used to be a fashion plate. She dressed beautifully, but when we saw her on television just recently, after all this happened, she looked awful. There's no way to describe it, the change that has come over her. You wouldn't have recognized her if they hadn't told you who she was; she looked that different. Where her hair used to be black, now it's entirely gray, and she really looks Old
Mr. JENNER - Well, she's 57, I believe.
Mr. EVANS - That's right; she's the same age as my wife, but she looks about 70 now. That's about all I can remember about her, and then I saw this thing on television when the President was assassinated, and when it showed her picture, we just couldn't believe it was Marguerite.

His wife Myrtle Evans testified on the same day:

Mrs. EVANS - A very good housekeeper, very tasty; she could take anything and make something out of it, and something beautiful. She had a lot of natural talent that way, and she was not lazy. She would work with things by the hour for her children, and she kept a very neat house, and she was always so lovely herself. That's why, when I saw her on TV, after all of this happened, she looked so old and haggard, and I said, "That couldn't be Margie," but of course it was, but if you had known Margie before all this happened, you would see what I mean. She was beautiful. She had beautiful wavy hair.

Mrs. Evans added this:

Mrs. EVANS - As far as I could see, they were very happy, very closely knit, very much in love with each other, and these boys knew that their mother was putting them through school, and giving them what they needed, as best she could. She was a very good provider for her children, and a very decent woman. I mean, she wasn't a loose woman at all. She was very decent, a very fine woman. 

Does that sound like the "Marguerite Oswald" we all heard about.

And then there's Ed Voebel....

Mr. JENNER. Did you ever meet his mother? 
Mr. VOEBEL. I think I met her one time, and for some reason I had a picture in my mind which was different from when I saw her in the paper after all of this happened. I didn't recognize her. She was a lot thinner, and her hair wasn't as gray, as I recall it, when I met her. Of course, this was about 8 years ago, but I can remember she had a black dress on, and she was sitting down smoking a cigarette; now, maybe she wasn't smoking, but this is a picture that comes to my mind as I recall that. 

Of course, none of these people could have possibly known about the elaborate charade that comprised the Oswald Project, but they clearly were surprised at phony Marguerite's appearance in 1964.  

Mr. and Mrs. Evans both testified that the Lee Harvey Oswald they knew was loud and boisterous, with a "foghorn voice."  This is certainly not the quiet, withdrawn, passive-aggresive kid described by the Warren Commision.

Isn’t it amazing how Parnell and Walton will engage in endless name-calling and personal attacks against me and anyone else saying anything they don’t like, but they refuse to discuss the EVIDENCE?  Instead of whining and crying about how bad I am, why don’t they answer a few questions about “Lee Harvey Oswald” in the U.S.M.C.?

Why don’t Parnell and Walton explain why the Office of the Secretary of Defense, confronted by Oswald’s Atsugi health records, decided to lie to the HSCA?  

The evidence that Harvey Oswald traveled to Taiwan aboard the USS Skagit (AKA 105) is simply enormous.  There are Unit Diaries showing him aboard the AKA 105, and Unit Diaries showing him in Taiwan.

Lieutenant John Donovan remembered that Oswald took photographs of troop deployments, fighter aircraft, ammunition bunkers, and F - 86 aircraft while in Taiwan. These photos from Taiwan were discovered by the Dallas cops among Harvey Oswald’s possessions after the assassination.  They are now in JFK collection at the National Archives.

In 1959, after "defecting" to the Soviet Union, Harvey Oswald talked about his experience in Taiwan with Priscilla Johnson at the Metropole Hotel in Moscow. Oswald said, "After I finished high school I joined the Marine Corps at 17 .... I was in Japan, the Philippines, Indonesia, and Formosa [another name for Taiwan].”

There’s lots more evidence about Harvey Oswald in Taiwan, but let’s just cut to the chase.  A naval message of November 4, 1959 reported that Oswald served with Marine Air Control Squadrons in Taiwan.

Harvey Oswald clearly was in Taiwan while Lee Oswald was stationed at Atsugi, Japan.  Why, when confronted by Lee Oswald’s Atsugi health records, did the Office of the Secretary of Defense decide to claim Oswald didn’t go to Taiwan?  Parnell and Walton don’t want to address that question.  They just want to whine and cry about how horrible I am, and how I just don’t care.  How pitiful.
 

How, Tommy, do you explain this?

4 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

I did some online searching and found that even today, most U.S. Navy ships do not have a medical staff on board, other than a couple of corpsmen.

On Answers.com I found the following:

Do navy ships have a doctor on board?

It depends on the size of the ship. In the U.S. Navy, cruisers, destroyers, and frigates normally do not have a doctor on board, they will have a couple of corpsmen, sort of super EMTs, to stabilize individuals until they can be medivaced to a ship or shore station with a hospital. Many  of the larger amphibious ships and aircraft carriers will have doctors and dentists aboard.

The U.S.S. Skagit is roughly the same size as cruisers, destroyers, and frigates. They all have a crew of about 300. In contrast, aircraft carriers have a crew on the order of 5000.

The U.S.S. Skagit would have had a sick bay. But it certainly would not have had a pathology lab for performing smear, culture, and sensitivity tests. And yet Oswald -- who certainly was aboard the ship at the time -- had two or three such lab tests performed, according to his sick call records.. The one given on September 16, 1958 specifically states "To Lab for Smear." To what lab?... if aboard the ship??

I just don't see how these tests could have been performed had Oswald been on board the U.S.S Skagit. And yet we know he was.

This points to there being two Oswalds.

 

That’s valuable research, Sandy.  It undermines the latest excuse-du jour from the One-Oswald-No-Matter-What group, who would like us to believe USMC medical records are stamped with hospital/base locations where Marines USED TO BE.  It’s an absurd (and desperate) position, and your discovery makes that even clearer.

What happened to Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald following his brief stay on Taiwan is fascinating.  With American-born Lee Oswald still stationed at Atsugi, Japan, Harvey Oswald left Taiwan around Oct. 6, 1958 and was sent to the Marine base at Santa Ana, California—MACS 9.  He remained there for nearly a year, until his 9/15/59 dependency discharge due to “Marguerite’s” sore nose. 

During that 11-month stay at MACS 9, Lee HARVEY Oswald established his identity as a Russian-speaking and Russian-reading commie sympathizer whose pro-Russian opinions and activities led his fellow Marines to call him  “Oswaldovich.”  The Warren Commission ignored the evidence that, during this same time frame, American-born LEE Oswald returned from Atsugi to the MACS 3 jet aircraft facility at El Toro, California.

From this point on, the Warren Commission reported solely on the life of Harvey Oswald, although it downplayed his Russian-speaking abilities to comply with LBJ’s demands that LHO be described as a  Lone Nut with no particular ties to anyone (especially the FBI and U.S. Intelligence).

Sure.  The photo second from left was also given to CBS reporter Ed Rabie by Eusebio Azcue.  Azcue was interviewed by Rabie on the CBS Evening News of Aug. 3, 1978.  No one in the U.S. general public had seen this photo before.  After the assassination Azcue said the alleged assassin “did not even resemble” the man who had visited their consulate.  Silvia Duran also described this “Oswald” as a short man with blond hair.  But David Atlee Phillips of the CIA sure wanted us to believe “Oswald” was really at both the Russian Embassy and the Cuban Consulate in Mexico City.  Funny how no one was ever able to deliver a photo of anyone resembling Oswald, despite all those cameras and backup cameras. 

1 hour ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

We don't know and your explanation may be the solution to the whole thing. But since we don't know for sure and it is hard to get the truth at this point, the H&L gang can continue on.

Hah-hah-hah!  If you guys ever come up with any evidence for your pipe dreams, please try to wake me up.

Do you seriously think the Office of the U.S. Secretary of Defense said LEE Oswald "remained at NAS (Naval Air Station) Atsugi, as part of the MAG II rear echelon" because he really didn't but they just didn't want to say so?  They were clearly painted into a corner by the USMC docs.  

Sorry, Michael, but about all I know is that Blakey claimed Dutz Murret was under Marcello's thumb, but I just don't trust Blakey.  In a way, I thought the HSCA was more dishonest than the WC.

1 hour ago, Michael Walton said:

On another  clone thread I  posted a GIF that shows LHO transforming  from 59 to 63. It's  him and Hilarious Hargrove  and Laughing  Larsen fumbled  and STILL couldn't  believe  their eyes that it was the same  person.

Wilting Walton took the photo from the Harvey Oswald's 1959 passport and superimposed it on Harvey Oswald's 1963 mug shot, and decided it was the same person.