Jim Hargrove

Isn’t it interesting that Honest Ken Croy…

… was the only police officer known to have chosen to go home only minutes after the shooting of the President of the United States.

Apparently Croy had recently had a serious spat with his wife and had moved in with his parents. His mind was on that, as is suggested by his desire to try and reconcile with his wife when such an opportunity presented itself. Which it did when he saw her downtown and made a lunch date with her. Patching up his marriage was apparently more important to him than trying to solve the JFK assassination.

You seriously believe this story, Sandy? By his own testimony, minutes (or seconds) after JFK is assassinated, Croy is sitting in his car at city hall at Main near Griffin and was “right in the middle of the street with my car hemmed in from both sides. I couldn’t go anywhere.” He said it took him twenty minutes to drive a couple of blocks to Houston and Main. Even though his own affidavit indicates reserve cops were being called in to monitor the transfer of LHO on 11/24, this reserve cop asks policemen he didn’t recognize if he could be of assistance in the matter of the shooting of the President of the United States at this very location minutes earlier, but they, he said, said no and so he “preceded home.”

Of course, he didn’t go home. Instead, he later testified that earlier, while he was at the courthouse, his estranged wife happened to drive by, despite the traffic jam,and, since he wasn’t needed to help investigate the shooting of President Kennedy, they decided to go have lunch at Austin’s Barbecue.

Mr. Griffin. Where did you see her downtown? Where were you and she when you saw each other?

Mr. Croy. At the courthouse. She pulled up beside me. I asked if anybody needed me there, and they said, “no,” and here she comes and I said, “Do you want to get something to eat? And she said, “Yes.”

This is the story you want me to believe, Sandy? But wait… there’s more to this ridiculous saga.

… cared nothing about the assassination of President Kennedy, but involved himself in the shooting of a police officer—without any orders or authority to do so.

He probably saw that the fort was being held down around Dealey Plaza, and he wasn't needed there. He was probably pleased that he wasn't needed, given that he had a date with his wife. (Though according to his testimony, he did ask some officers if they need assistance, and they said no.)

And you believe this???

… contradicted himself on numerous occasions in his WC testimony.

I don't remember any contradictions. Please give examples.

Well, for example, look at the bottom half of p. 192 in his testimony. But let’s just cut to the chase.

At the beginning of Honest Ken Croy’s testimony, Griffin said to him “if you have any other information that you feel would be useful to us in any other areas of our inquiry, we would like very much to have that.” And near the very end, Griffin added:

“Is there anything else that you think that you could tell us as a result of your experiences on the 22nd, 23rd, or 24th, or any other time that would be helpful to us, either in the investigation of the assassination of President Kennedy, or the murder of Jack Ruby.”

And Honest Ken Croy answered, “None that I know of. This is as well as I can remember it of what happened.”

According to Honest Ken, though, it turns out that he forgot to mention that he either found or was given ( depending on which version of his story you with to go with) a wallet at the Tippit murder scene that contained identification of Lee Harvey Oswald and Alec Hidell, and that he held on to it, apparently showing it to no one, until he gave it to Captain Westbrook when he arrived much later.

Was Honest Ken lying during his testimony, or was he lying when he told the world about that wallet? Was he lying then or later? Answer: He was probably ALWAYS lying!

… forgot the names of each and every witness at 10^th and Patton, and forgot the names of each and every police officer at 10^th and Patton.

Croy was a reserve officer and didn't know the names of most the DPD officers. Though he did recognize many faces. He states this in his WC testimony. (Many people -- including myself -- have a hard time remembering names.)

He was a reserve officer for more than four years. You want us to believe he asked some cops standing around the corner that he didn’t know if he was needed at the crime scene of a presidential assassination, and he didn’t catch a name? REALLY?

… was on site before the ambulance arrived, and therefore must have seen Ted Callaway take the gun from Tippit’s body and get into a taxi to look for the shooter. Why would a police officer, in uniform, allow a civilian to take a weapon from a dead police officer?

It's rather odd that you wish to make a point of this, Jim, as if it somehow supports your allegation that Croy was involved in murdering Tippit.

You (like myself and most others) believe that Croy was at the scene when Callaway and Scoggins set out in the taxicab to find the shooter. If Croy was involved in Tippit's assassination, as you believe, then surely he would NOT have wanted Callaway and Scoggins to find the shooter. Given that, why did Croy allow them to take Tippit's gun and search for the shooter? You need to answer your own question.

I'll be happy to answer your question. There are many possible explanations... here's one: Callaway was helping to load Tippit into the ambulance. He saw that the ambulance attendants had it under control, so he stopped and then grabbed Tippit's gun. Croy arrived at this time and saw the very end of Tippit being loaded. Croy didn't know Callaway has Tippit's gun. Callaway recruited Scoggins into driving after the shooter. Meanwhile Croy began asking questions and interviews Helen Markham.

Croy could hardly have been more helpful if he had hidden Tippit’s killer in the back seat of his car. He talked, he said, to a witness for “a good 5 or 10 minutes.”

Mr. Croy. The only information I could get out of her was the description of what Oswald had on, and him shooting him.

Mr. Griffin. What did she tell you at the time that he had on?

Mr. Croy. “I don’t recall what he had on.”

That’s right! The only information he could get out of a witness he interviewed for a “good 5 or 10 minutes” was her “description of what Oswald had on,” but he didn’t know what Oswald had on!! But wait, there’s more:

Mr. Croy. I believe it was a man that was standing there in the yard. He said he saw Oswald just walk up the street.

Mr. Griffin. What direction did he say?

Mr. Croy. He didn’t say.

….

Mr. Griffin. Were you able to determine from them what direction he saw Oswald walking?

Mr. Croy. No.

Mr. Griffin. Do you recall this man’s name?

Mr. Croy. No; I found the witness and took him to the other officers.

Mr. Griffin. Now, after the Tippit—how long did you remain at the scene of the Tippit killing?

Mr. Croy. Oh, I would say a good 30 minutes. Thirty or forty minutes, something like that.

Mr. Griffin. Then where did you go?

Mr. Croy. Home. I went to eat.

Mr. Griffin. I take it, at some restaurant or something.

Mr. Croy. Yes.

Mr. Griffin. Did you remain home the rest of the day?

Mr. Croy. Yes.

Of course, all the time Honest Ken Croy was failing to find one single clue about the man who had just killed a police officer, and all the time he drove slowly past the Texas Theater to make sure he wasn’t needed there, either, his wife is waiting patiently at the Austin BBQ. This is the story you expect us to believe, Sandy?

---------------

… said that he spoke with a witness who was watering her yard, yet no known witness to the Tippit shooting was watering their yard during the shooting.

B.S. The witness wasn't watering her yard. She was doing something in somebody's yard, according to Croy's testimony. This witness was almost positively Helen Markham.

Mr. Croy. I don’t recall. I think she lived across the street. She was standing out in front watering her yard or doing something in her yard.

…

Mr. Griffin. Well, you stated that she was watering her yard?

And on and on.

… was able to go directly to the scene of the Tippit shooting when four different addresses were given by the police dispatcher.

Apparently Croy picked the correct address. Or maybe he was on his way to the wrong address and was nearly there when the address correction was announced. Officer Poe also found the correct address just a minute or two later. He arrived later than Croy because he had further to drive.

Yet another coincidence in this remarkable case! With honest Ken Croy, they just keep piling up! Like the fact that he just happened to be the last person talking to Jack Ruby before Ruby shot Oswald. And, according to his affidavit, he “reached for this individual and touched his coat tail attempting to stop him.” For a guy who couldn’t find a clue if it fell on his head, Honest Ken Croy sure got around!

… first said he was given the wallet by an unidentified witness, yet later said that he was the man who found the wallet.

References please. There is nothing in Croy's WC testimony about the wallet.

No, Sandy. The references, including YouTube videos, photographs signed by Croy indicating he found the wallet and was first on the Tippit murder scene, and much more are ALL OVER THE INTERNET! There’s this thing called Google….

… was the first officer on the scene of the Tippit shooting, yet failed to file one report about his activities at 10^th and Patton.

I don't know why Croy wasn't required to file a report. Or if he did file a report but it contained information unacceptable to the official story, and therefore was destroyed. What I do know is that he was asked in his WC questioning if he had filed a report, and his reply was "no."

See what I mean? Stunning! Maybe his estranged wife was STILL waiting at Austen’s Barbeque, and he was thinking about her instead. Poor guy!

If anyone thinks that Honest Ken Croy or his testimony can be trusted, I invite them to read similar nonsense provided by him regarding his activities when Oswald was shot and killed by Jack Ruby two days later.

I skimmed through it, and read the parts pertaining to Ruby. But I saw nothing unusual. He was standing next to Ruby and he asked Ruby to move back when he instructed to do so. He tried to grab Ruby when he rushed toward Oswald but failed.

Yes, by all means, read Croy's testimony.

Try not to laugh! Only the Warren Commission could give this guy a pass.

Click here to read Croy's testimony.

Bump.

Sorry Jim. But I think this is a bunch of ado about nothing. And I'm trying to save people from believing something that IMO is not true.

You should be a defense attorney, Sandy. Apparently you can keep a straight face no matter what BS is put in front of you. If Honest Ken Croy didn't help Ruby get into the basement without a press pass, who did?

People can read Croy's testimony and decide for themselves. INDEED!!!

For some unknown reason, Sandy is referring back to this post... and then altering my words to make it seem like I am ducking his question. I just wanted to get this post up on the new page here, and now I'll show you what I mean.

Isn’t it interesting that Honest Ken Croy…

… was the only police officer known to have chosen to go home only minutes after the shooting of the President of the United States.

Apparently Croy had recently had a serious spat with his wife and had moved in with his parents. His mind was on that, as is suggested by his desire to try and reconcile with his wife when such an opportunity presented itself. Which it did when he saw her downtown and made a lunch date with her. Patching up his marriage was apparently more important to him than trying to solve the JFK assassination.

You seriously believe this story, Sandy? By his own testimony, minutes (or seconds) after JFK is assassinated, Croy is sitting in his car at city hall at Main near Griffin and was “right in the middle of the street with my car hemmed in from both sides. I couldn’t go anywhere.” He said it took him twenty minutes to drive a couple of blocks to Houston and Main. Even though his own affidavit indicates reserve cops were being called in to monitor the transfer of LHO on 11/24, this reserve cop asks policemen he didn’t recognize if he could be of assistance in the matter of the shooting of the President of the United States at this very location minutes earlier, but they, he said, said no and so he “preceded home.”

Of course, he didn’t go home. Instead, he later testified that earlier, while he was at the courthouse, his estranged wife happened to drive by, despite the traffic jam,and, since he wasn’t needed to help investigate the shooting of President Kennedy, they decided to go have lunch at Austin’s Barbecue.

Mr. Griffin. Where did you see her downtown? Where were you and she when you saw each other?

Mr. Croy. At the courthouse. She pulled up beside me. I asked if anybody needed me there, and they said, “no,” and here she comes and I said, “Do you want to get something to eat? And she said, “Yes.”

This is the story you want me to believe, Sandy? But wait… there’s more to this ridiculous saga.

… cared nothing about the assassination of President Kennedy, but involved himself in the shooting of a police officer—without any orders or authority to do so.

He probably saw that the fort was being held down around Dealey Plaza, and he wasn't needed there. He was probably pleased that he wasn't needed, given that he had a date with his wife. (Though according to his testimony, he did ask some officers if they need assistance, and they said no.)

And you believe this???

… contradicted himself on numerous occasions in his WC testimony.

I don't remember any contradictions. Please give examples.

Well, for example, look at the bottom half of p. 192 in his testimony. But let’s just cut to the chase.

At the beginning of Honest Ken Croy’s testimony, Griffin said to him “if you have any other information that you feel would be useful to us in any other areas of our inquiry, we would like very much to have that.” And near the very end, Griffin added:

“Is there anything else that you think that you could tell us as a result of your experiences on the 22nd, 23rd, or 24th, or any other time that would be helpful to us, either in the investigation of the assassination of President Kennedy, or the murder of Jack Ruby.”

And Honest Ken Croy answered, “None that I know of. This is as well as I can remember it of what happened.”

According to Honest Ken, though, it turns out that he forgot to mention that he either found or was given ( depending on which version of his story you with to go with) a wallet at the Tippit murder scene that contained identification of Lee Harvey Oswald and Alec Hidell, and that he held on to it, apparently showing it to no one, until he gave it to Captain Westbrook when he arrived much later.

Was Honest Ken lying during his testimony, or was he lying when he told the world about that wallet? Was he lying then or later? Answer: He was probably ALWAYS lying!

… forgot the names of each and every witness at 10^th and Patton, and forgot the names of each and every police officer at 10^th and Patton.

Croy was a reserve officer and didn't know the names of most the DPD officers. Though he did recognize many faces. He states this in his WC testimony. (Many people -- including myself -- have a hard time remembering names.)

He was a reserve officer for more than four years. You want us to believe he asked some cops standing around the corner that he didn’t know if he was needed at the crime scene of a presidential assassination, and he didn’t catch a name? REALLY?

… was on site before the ambulance arrived, and therefore must have seen Ted Callaway take the gun from Tippit’s body and get into a taxi to look for the shooter. Why would a police officer, in uniform, allow a civilian to take a weapon from a dead police officer?

It's rather odd that you wish to make a point of this, Jim, as if it somehow supports your allegation that Croy was involved in murdering Tippit.

You (like myself and most others) believe that Croy was at the scene when Callaway and Scoggins set out in the taxicab to find the shooter. If Croy was involved in Tippit's assassination, as you believe, then surely he would NOT have wanted Callaway and Scoggins to find the shooter. Given that, why did Croy allow them to take Tippit's gun and search for the shooter? You need to answer your own question.

I'll be happy to answer your question. There are many possible explanations... here's one: Callaway was helping to load Tippit into the ambulance. He saw that the ambulance attendants had it under control, so he stopped and then grabbed Tippit's gun. Croy arrived at this time and saw the very end of Tippit being loaded. Croy didn't know Callaway has Tippit's gun. Callaway recruited Scoggins into driving after the shooter. Meanwhile Croy began asking questions and interviews Helen Markham.

Croy could hardly have been more helpful if he had hidden Tippit’s killer in the back seat of his car. He talked, he said, to a witness for “a good 5 or 10 minutes.”

Mr. Croy. The only information I could get out of her was the description of what Oswald had on, and him shooting him.

Mr. Griffin. What did she tell you at the time that he had on?

Mr. Croy. “I don’t recall what he had on.”

That’s right! The only information he could get out of a witness he interviewed for a “good 5 or 10 minutes” was her “description of what Oswald had on,” but he didn’t know what Oswald had on!! But wait, there’s more:

Mr. Croy. I believe it was a man that was standing there in the yard. He said he saw Oswald just walk up the street.

Mr. Griffin. What direction did he say?

Mr. Croy. He didn’t say.

….

Mr. Griffin. Were you able to determine from them what direction he saw Oswald walking?

Mr. Croy. No.

Mr. Griffin. Do you recall this man’s name?

Mr. Croy. No; I found the witness and took him to the other officers.

Mr. Griffin. Now, after the Tippit—how long did you remain at the scene of the Tippit killing?

Mr. Croy. Oh, I would say a good 30 minutes. Thirty or forty minutes, something like that.

Mr. Griffin. Then where did you go?

Mr. Croy. Home. I went to eat.

Mr. Griffin. I take it, at some restaurant or something.

Mr. Croy. Yes.

Mr. Griffin. Did you remain home the rest of the day?

Mr. Croy. Yes.

Of course, all the time Honest Ken Croy was failing to find one single clue about the man who had just killed a police officer, and all the time he drove slowly past the Texas Theater to make sure he wasn’t needed there, either, his wife is waiting patiently at the Austin BBQ. This is the story you expect us to believe, Sandy?

---------------

… said that he spoke with a witness who was watering her yard, yet no known witness to the Tippit shooting was watering their yard during the shooting.

B.S. The witness wasn't watering her yard. She was doing something in somebody's yard, according to Croy's testimony. This witness was almost positively Helen Markham.

Mr. Croy. I don’t recall. I think she lived across the street. She was standing out in front watering her yard or doing something in her yard.

…

Mr. Griffin. Well, you stated that she was watering her yard?

And on and on.

… was able to go directly to the scene of the Tippit shooting when four different addresses were given by the police dispatcher.

Apparently Croy picked the correct address. Or maybe he was on his way to the wrong address and was nearly there when the address correction was announced. Officer Poe also found the correct address just a minute or two later. He arrived later than Croy because he had further to drive.

Yet another coincidence in this remarkable case! With honest Ken Croy, they just keep piling up! Like the fact that he just happened to be the last person talking to Jack Ruby before Ruby shot Oswald. And, according to his affidavit, he “reached for this individual and touched his coat tail attempting to stop him.” For a guy who couldn’t find a clue if it fell on his head, Honest Ken Croy sure got around!

… first said he was given the wallet by an unidentified witness, yet later said that he was the man who found the wallet.

References please. There is nothing in Croy's WC testimony about the wallet.

No, Sandy. The references, including YouTube videos, photographs signed by Croy indicating he found the wallet and was first on the Tippit murder scene, and much more are ALL OVER THE INTERNET! There’s this thing called Google….

… was the first officer on the scene of the Tippit shooting, yet failed to file one report about his activities at 10^th and Patton.

I don't know why Croy wasn't required to file a report. Or if he did file a report but it contained information unacceptable to the official story, and therefore was destroyed. What I do know is that he was asked in his WC questioning if he had filed a report, and his reply was "no."

See what I mean? Stunning! Maybe his estranged wife was STILL waiting at Austen’s Barbeque, and he was thinking about her instead. Poor guy!

If anyone thinks that Honest Ken Croy or his testimony can be trusted, I invite them to read similar nonsense provided by him regarding his activities when Oswald was shot and killed by Jack Ruby two days later.

I skimmed through it, and read the parts pertaining to Ruby. But I saw nothing unusual. He was standing next to Ruby and he asked Ruby to move back when he instructed to do so. He tried to grab Ruby when he rushed toward Oswald but failed.

Yes, by all means, read Croy's testimony.

Try not to laugh! Only the Warren Commission could give this guy a pass.

Click here to read Croy's testimony.

Bump.

Sorry Jim. But I think this is a bunch of ado about nothing. And I'm trying to save people from believing something that IMO is not true.

You should be a defense attorney, Sandy. Apparently you can keep a straight face no matter what BS is put in front of you. If Honest Ken Croy didn't help Ruby get into the basement without a press pass, who did?

People can read Croy's testimony and decide for themselves. INDEED!!!

Isn’t it interesting that Honest Ken Croy…

… was the only police officer known to have chosen to go home only minutes after the shooting of the President of the United States.

… cared nothing about the assassination of President Kennedy, but involved himself in the shooting of a police officer—without any orders or authority to do so.

… contradicted himself on numerous occasions in his WC testimony.

… forgot the names of each and every witness at 10^th and Patton, and forgot the names of each and every police officer at 10^th and Patton.

… was on site before the ambulance arrived, and therefore must have seen Ted Callaway take the gun from Tippit’s body and get into a taxi to look for the shooter. Why would a police officer, in uniform, allow a civilian to take a weapon from a dead police officer?

… said that he spoke with a witness who was watering her yard, yet no known witness to the Tippit shooting was watering their yard during the shooting.

… was able to go directly to the scene of the Tippit shooting when four different addresses were given by the police dispatcher.

… first said he was given the wallet by an unidentified witness, yet later said that he was the man who found the wallet.

… was the first officer on the scene of the Tippit shooting, yet failed to file one report about his activities at 10^th and Patton.

If anyone thinks that Honest Ken Croy or his testimony can be trusted, I invite them to read similar nonsense provided by him regarding his activities when Oswald was shot and killed by Jack Ruby two days later.

Click here to read Croy's testimony.

Bump.

Megathanks to Don Jeffries for his wonderful review!

If you'd like to learn more about "Harvey and Lee," please visit the website:

HarveyandLee.net

Thanks again, Don!

Additionally, I have found 5 statements by researchers that the ambulance log sheet is nowhere to be found. Butler et al agree that it took about a minute for the ambulance to get to the shooting scene and another four minutes to get to the hospital, but I am unable to find a statement from them or Hughes as to what time the ambulance departed or arrived at the shooting.

That may speak volumes, eh?

Of course, the only REALLY important time here is the time of the shooting, which is almost certainly 1:06. This does NOT give LHO enough time to be the shooter.

It certainly doesn't seem to give sufficient time for that fellow in the brown shirt who left the rooming house on N. Beckley and ended up being arrested at the Texas Theater. But what about that other fellow, the guy in the white shirt who DID shoot Tippit? A number of witnesses, including Benavides (the closest) thought he WAS Oswald. He had a similar appearance, as can be determined by the police descriptions.

Are we to believe that it was just a coincidence that the fellow in the white shirt who shot Tippit looked similar to the fellow in the brown shirt arrested at the Texas Theater? Yet another coincidence?? Or is it time for researchers to begin to seek another explanation?

hsca record 180-10107-10180 is the HSCA interview with J. Clayton Butler, the ambulance driver.

Does anyone know where to find this record?

Tom

I've spent several days looking for this too, also without success. It used to be EASY to find HSCA testimony online.

I thought for sure it would be found here:

http://aarclibrary.org/publib/contents/hsca/contents_hsca_vols.htm

But after searching the contents of each volume and doing a Google site search of aarclibrary.org, it simply doesn't seem to be there. Very frustrating!

DID HUGH AYNSEWORTH SAY HE WAS AT THE TIPPIT MURDER SCENE NO LATER THAN 1:10 PM?

Here is the text of a letter from Shirley Martin to Jim Garrison:

May 20, 1967

Dear Mr. Garrison:

I am so sorry that Newsweek chose Hugh Aynesworth to use in its rebuttal of you.

In the summer of ‘64 I had a long talk with Mr. Aynesworth, introducing myself to him as a friend of a relative to General Clyde Watts, ex-Major General Edwin A. Walker's close friend and attorney (Oxford). Mr. Aynesworth mistakenly assumed that I was a political conservative and immediately deluged me with disgusting anti-Kennedy stories. ("Kennedy needed a trip to Dallas like a hole in the head," etc.) At the same time Mr. Aynesworth heaped what seemed to me to be inordinate praise on the city of Dallas, the Dallas police (Lt. George Butler, Captain Fritz, Chief Curry, etc.), and the Dallas Morning News (for which newspaper Aynesworth was working at the time). He confided, too, that Tom Buchanan (Paris) was a "fairy" and detailed for me a number of extremely slanderous alleged incidents in the life of Mark Lane. In addition, Mr. Aynesworth definitively labeled Mr. Lane a "communist."

Aynesworth was extremely bitter that Merriman Smith had won the Pulitzer for his coverage of the assassination. Aynesworth sarcastically remarked that Smith "did nothing and saw less" on the day in question, whereas he, Aynesworth was "...the only reporter in America to make all four big scenes." (1) In addition, Aynesworth boasted that a Commission attorney had already confided to him (in July) what the Commission verdict was to be (in September). Oswald would be named, but according to Aynesworth it was in reality "...a communist plot. Warren will do a cover-up for Moscow."

Aynesworth insisted that Marina had had an affair with him after the assassination, and that during this period she had revealed to him that she and Ruth Paine had shared a Lesbian relationship prior to November 22, 1963. Aynesworth also declared that he had been on 10th Street "looking down on the Tippit murder scene at 1:05pm, not later than 1:10..." on November 22nd. (2) Needless to say, the "only reporter in America" to be in on all four "big scenes" was NOT called to testify before the Warren Commission, which did, however, call Thayer Waldo, Fort Worth reporter, because he had been in the police basement when Ruby shot Oswald. (3)

Finally, I have the statement by an employee of the Dallas Morning News that Aynesworth was deliberately and ILLEGALLY given the allegedly stolen Oswald diary story by a Commission attorney who was in Dallas on business at that time. Earl Warren later put the FBI on the trail of this illegal "leak", but

as was to be expected no discoveries were made.

This, then, is the man chosen by Newsweek to rebut you. What a pity Newsweek's taste is so concentrated in its tail.

- Sincerely,

(Mrs.) Shirley Martin

Box 226

Owasso, Oklahoma

DID HUGH AYNSEWORTH SAY HE WAS AT THE TIPPIT MURDER SCENE NO LATER THAN 1:10 PM?

Here is the text of a letter from Shirley Martin to Jim Garrison:

May 20, 1967

Dear Mr. Garrison:

I am so sorry that Newsweek chose Hugh Aynesworth to use in its rebuttal of you.

In the summer of ‘64 I had a long talk with Mr. Aynesworth, introducing myself to him as a friend of a relative to General Clyde Watts, ex-Major General Edwin A. Walker's close friend and attorney (Oxford). Mr. Aynesworth mistakenly assumed that I was a political conservative and immediately deluged me with disgusting anti-Kennedy stories. ("Kennedy needed a trip to Dallas like a hole in the head," etc.) At the same time Mr. Aynesworth heaped what seemed to me to be inordinate praise on the city of Dallas, the Dallas police (Lt. George Butler, Captain Fritz, Chief Curry, etc.), and the Dallas Morning News (for which newspaper Aynesworth was working at the time). He confided, too, that Tom Buchanan (Paris) was a "fairy" and detailed for me a number of extremely slanderous alleged incidents in the life of Mark Lane. In addition, Mr. Aynesworth definitively labeled Mr. Lane a "communist."

Aynesworth was extremely bitter that Merriman Smith had won the Pulitzer for his coverage of the assassination. Aynesworth sarcastically remarked that Smith "did nothing and saw less" on the day in question, whereas he, Aynesworth was "...the only reporter in America to make all four big scenes." (1) In addition, Aynesworth boasted that a Commission attorney had already confided to him (in July) what the Commission verdict was to be (in September). Oswald would be named, but according to Aynesworth it was in reality "...a communist plot. Warren will do a cover-up for Moscow."

Aynesworth insisted that Marina had had an affair with him after the assassination, and that during this period she had revealed to him that she and Ruth Paine had shared a Lesbian relationship prior to November 22, 1963. Aynesworth also declared that he had been on 10th Street "looking down on the Tippit murder scene at 1:05pm, not later than 1:10..." on November 22nd. (2) Needless to say, the "only reporter in America" to be in on all four "big scenes" was NOT called to testify before the Warren Commission, which did, however, call Thayer Waldo, Fort Worth reporter, because he had been in the police basement when Ruby shot Oswald. (3)

Finally, I have the statement by an employee of the Dallas Morning News that Aynesworth was deliberately and ILLEGALLY given the allegedly stolen Oswald diary story by a Commission attorney who was in Dallas on business at that time. Earl Warren later put the FBI on the trail of this illegal "leak", but

as was to be expected no discoveries were made.

This, then, is the man chosen by Newsweek to rebut you. What a pity Newsweek's taste is so concentrated in its tail.

- Sincerely,

(Mrs.) Shirley Martin

Box 226

Owasso, Oklahoma

Timeline (including police officers and Virgina Davis)

1:06 - Tippit is shot.

Frank Wright, Mrs. Wright, Doris Holan, Helen Markham, Domingo Benavides, and Jimmy Burt are the first people to hear the shots and the first people to look at Tippit on the ground and see the shooter.

1:07 - Virginia Davis and her-sister-in-law arrive at the door, and Helen Markham screams to them that Tippit is dead and to call the police. They see the killer cross their yard and disappear around the corner of their house.

Mrs. Wright hears the shots, immediately dials "O" for operator and is passed over to the police dept. Police push a special button to notify Dudley Hughes ambulance, which is dispatched less than a minute later. Mrs. Wright was likely the first person to contact police. Scoggins called his dispatcher to report the shooting, Mrs. Holan walks outside of her house and watches a plainclothes police officer hurry from Tippit's body to a police car parked in a narrow driveway between two houses.

1:08 - The Davises call the police and then step out into their yard. They walk over and see Tippit's body lying on the ground.

Jimmy Burt and William Smith arrive by car from a block away and watch LHO as he crosses Patton and begins walking south toward Jefferson. Jimmy Burt saw two ladies at the scene of the shooting (Virginia/Barbara Davis). Callaway first sees Oswald walking south on Patton. Sam Guinyard sees the police care drive as it left the scene and drove down the alley between 10th & Jefferson.

1:09: Callaway runs to the scene and sees Tippit lying on the pavement.

1:10 - Witness T.F. Bowley calls in the shooting via Tippit's radio.

1:10 - The ambulance arrives and the body is loaded. Callaway helps load Tippit's body, then grabs Tippit's gun and says to Scoggins, "Let's go after him [LHO]."

1:11 - Croy arrives and sees Tippit being loaded into the ambulance. Croy talks to a "hysterical" witness, probably Helen Markham. Not likely Markham. Croy said he talked with a woman who was "watering her lawn" or something similar--hardly the description of excited Markham.

1:12 - The ambulance departs.

1:12 to 1:13 - Officer Poe and Patrolman L.E. Jez arrive, and interview an excited Helen Markham.

1:14: Ambulance arrives at Methodist Hospital. (According to Clayton Butler and Kinsley the trip to the hospital took 4 minutes.) Tippit is DOA.

1:13 to 1:22 - Patrolman Roy W. Walker arrives. Officer Poe gives Markham's description of the shooter to Walker for him to broadcast..

1:22 - Patrolman Roy W. Walker broadcasts the killer's description from the scene.

I still have the problem with the 1:18 call logged by the ambulance. I agree with Jim that it SHOULD have been more like 1:08, but as I said in a previous post, that would require cooperation from the funeral home and the drivers. I'm looking for quotes from Butler, Eddie Kinsey, and Dudley Hughes that confirms or denies these times...

Tom

Are you sure that Hughes and the ambulance drivers needed to cooperate for the FBI to have altered the time stamps? There are all kinds of examples of how the FBI forged evidence in this case, and even altered witness testimony to hide its malfeasance. See this link, for example:

http://harveyandlee.net/FBI/FBI.html

Has anyone seen the original time-stamped dispatch from Dudley Hughes? My bet is that this document disappeared, and all we have is the altered FBI report as to what the dispatch supposedly said.

Tom,

Fascinating! The FBI tells us Tippit was pronounced dead at 1:25, based on Hughes Funeral Home records, but what could those records be, other than the official Death Certificate, which states time of death to be 1:15? Understanding the points you made in a previous post about this, I still do not trust the 1:18 time frame you based your timeline on. (Can you point me toward the evidence for the 1:18 ambulance call/arrival?)

At any rate, seems just as easy or easier to me to alter mobile ambulance logs than an official death certificate, though that’s not based on much. The real issue, as you said earlier, is that the FBI and soon the WC knew from the outset that there was a problem getting LHO to Tenth & Patton from N. Beckley in time to shoot Tippit at 1:06, and so there was always pressure to push the timeline later and later. Hoover MAY have realized that the problem was even worse, since, accounting for the white shirted and brown shirted Oswalds, area sightings suggested that “Oswald” took a less than direct route. The FBI report would be at the very top of my suspicious documents list.

I think the witness evidence suggests that the ambulance arrived at 10^th & Patton around 1:10, or even a minute or two earlier. For example….

Here is the WC testimony of Ted Callaway.

If you assume the shots he heard were at 1:06, and read his testimony carefully, think about how many minutes would have elaspsed until Callaway saw the ambulance arrive, load Tippit’s body, and then leave. Would you agree with these times?

1:06--PM-Callaway hears shots and runs out to the sidewalk.

1:07--PM-Callaway sees LHO cross the street, holding a pistol in his right hand. Says to LHO, "What the hell is going on?" Watches LHO as he continues south on Patton.

1:07--1:08 PM-Callaway (40 years old) runs 300 feet to Tippit’s patrol car. Rolled Tippit over. Placed Tippit's revolver on the hood of the police car.

1:08--1:10 PM-Callaway called police dispatch and saw the ambulance arrive, load Tippit's body, and leave the scene en route to the hospital. Callaway then took Tippit's gun and had taxi driver Scoggins drive him around to look for LHO.

And, btw, where was Honest Ken while all this was going on? Did he really permit Callaway to take Tippit’s service revolver into Scoggins’ taxi?

Let’s try another timeline, assuming the 1:15 ToD was pronounced when Tippit’s body arrived at Methodist Hospital.

Working backward from 1:15:

3-4 minutes from Tenth & Patton to the hospital.

2 minutes to get Tippit from the ambulance to the emergency room where he was declared dead.

Total of 5 or 6 minutes prior to 1:15, which would mean the ambulance arrived at around 1:09 or 1:10. One of the first calls, if not the first, to Dudley Hughes came from the taxi dispatcher within a minute or two after Tippit was shot. Ambulance driver Kinsey said he drove from Dudley Hughes to 10^th & Patton in about 1 minute (one city block).

SUMMARY: Tippit shot at 1:06 pm. Taxi dispatcher calls Dudley Hughes a 1:08 pm. Ambulance arrives at 1:09 pm. Tippit loaded into ambulance by 1:10 pm. Ambulance arrives at hospital at about 1:15pm. Tippit is dead on arrival.

If this timeline is accurate, then croy was on the scene at or prior to 1:09 or 1:10 pm. Doesn’t this match reasonably well with the davis sisters telephoning polic and then walking fifty or sixty feet to Tippit’s body before the ambulance arrived (circa 1:08-1:09)?

Isn’t it interesting that Honest Ken Croy…

… was the only police officer known to have chosen to go home only minutes after the shooting of the President of the United States.

… cared nothing about the assassination of President Kennedy, but involved himself in the shooting of a police officer—without any orders or authority to do so.

… contradicted himself on numerous occasions in his WC testimony.

… forgot the names of each and every witness at 10^th and Patton, and forgot the names of each and every police officer at 10^th and Patton.

… was on site before the ambulance arrived, and therefore must have seen Ted Callaway take the gun from Tippit’s body and get into a taxi to look for the shooter. Why would a police officer, in uniform, allow a civilian to take a weapon from a dead police officer?

… said that he spoke with a witness who was watering her yard, yet no known witness to the Tippit shooting was watering their yard during the shooting.

… was able to go directly to the scene of the Tippit shooting when four different addresses were given by the police dispatcher.

… first said he was given the wallet by an unidentified witness, yet later said that he was the man who found the wallet.

… was the first officer on the scene of the Tippit shooting, yet failed to file one report about his activities at 10^th and Patton.

If anyone thinks that Honest Ken Croy or his testimony can be trusted, I invite them to read similar nonsense provided by him regarding his activities when Oswald was shot and killed by Jack Ruby two days later.

Click here to read Croy's testimony.

Tom,

You make some excellent points, and I agree that the most likely time of the shooting was about 1:06. Wouldn't you have to agree, though, that by many accounts the ambulance got to the scene much faster that the twelve minutes that would have expired between 1:06 and 1:18?

Sandy and Jim,

If you read Barbara Jeannette Davis' testimony, unlike her 16 year old sister Virginia, she is solid on the order of events. It's worth reading as it clarifies everything Virginia said, and provides much more info regarding the finding of the shells.

Barbara states that after the phone call which took very little time as she did no more than report a shooting at her address, she and her sister walked out of the house, and directly to the Patrol car. They were there until the police cars started arriving about 5 minutes after they arrived at the car. At that time they returned to their yard.

According to the ambulance log sheet, they arrived at the shooting scene at 1:18.

Tom

Interesting. I'll re-read BJ Davis' testimony asap. In the meantime, though, I suspect (in addition to all the witnesses who said Tippit was shot more than 10 minutes before 1:18) most legal investigations would go with the Methodist Hospital's official time of death at 1:15, making the ambulance arrival at 1:18 impossible.

The DPD report also indicated time of death as 1:15 (though, it appears to be typed over the time of 1:09). Since the cops saw "doctors and nurses trying to bring the officer back to life," there is even more of a discrepancy between the ambulance log and the official time of death. Interesting, though.

Timeline (including police officers and Virgina Davis)

1:06 - Tippit is shot.

1:07 - Virginia Davis and her-sister-in-law are at the door, and Helen Markham screams to them that Tippit is dead and to call the police. They see the killer cross their yard and disappear around the corner of their house.

1:08 - The Davises call the police and then step out into their yard.

1:10 - Witness T.F. Bowley calls in the shooting via Tippit's radio.

1:12 - The Davises wander over and view Tippit's body lying on the ground. The ambulance arrives and the body is loaded.

1:13 - Croy arrives and the ambulance leaves. Croy talks to a "hysterical" witness, probably Helen Markham.

1:14 to 1:17 - Officer Poe and Patrolman L.E. Jez arrive, and interview an excited Helen Markham.

1:15 to 1:22 - Patrolman Roy W. Walker arrives. Officer Poe gives Markham's description of the shooter to Walker for him to broadcast..

1:22 - Patrolman Roy W. Walker broadcasts the killer's description from the scene.

You're trying to give Croy the benefit of the doubt, Sandy, but you've still got to stick to the facts. Young Mrs. Davis was in the duplex building at 400/402 Tenth St., right next to the building where Tippit was shot. It couldn't have been more than 50 or 60 feet from her front door to Tippit's body. Do you really think it took her four minutes to "wander over" those few feet? My guess is she did it in no more than 10 or 15 seconds.

What did she do then?

Timeline (including police officers and Virgina Davis)

1:14 - Tippit is shot. (Since Tippit was declared dead at Methodist Hospital at 1:15, I'd have to conclude this is not a very good start to a timeline. Have you taken the time to read the testimonies of various witnesses who said the shooting occurred at 1:06 PM?)

1:15 - Virginia Davis and her-sister-in-law are at the door, and Helen Markham screams to them that Tippit is dead and to call the police. They see the killer cross their yard and disappear around the corner of their house. (Sandy, if you knew when Helen Markham said the shooting occurred, you would not post this.)

1:!6 - The Davises call the police and then step out into their yard.

1:17 - Witness T.F. Bowley calls in the shooting via Tippit's radio. (Did you know that Bowley looked at his watch when he arrived and said it was 1:10 PM?)

1:19 - The Davises wander over and view Tippit's body lying on the ground. Virginia Davis said they walked over after the shooter disappeared around the corner of their house. The ambulance arrives and loads the body. Perhaps you would care to explain why Tippit was pronounced dead at Methodist Hospital four minutes EARLIER, at 1:15 PM.

1:20 - Croy arrives and the ambulance leaves. Croy talks to Helen Markham until 1:30 to 1:35. No. Croy arrived at 1:06 PM, spoke with an unknown witness who he said was watering her lawn. (Why do you state the witness was Helen Markham? Please try to be accurate with your posts.)

1:21 - Patrolman Roy W. Walker arrives.

1:22 - Patrolman Roy W. Walker broadcasts the killer's description from the scene. Officer Poe and Patrolman L.E. Jez arrive immediately after the Walker broadcast. If the police tapes can be trusted, then the first police officers, other than Croy, arrived at 1:22 PM, some 15-16 minutes after Croy arrived.

Sandy, you really should read the testimony of the witnesses and record the times they gave accordingly. To rely on an author's opinion about a timeline, in the absence of witness testimony, is like relying on the Warren Commission. For example, did you know that Mrs. Higgins was watching television when the TV announcer reported the time at 1:06 PM. Mrs. Higgins said she heard the shots almost simultaneously. Please, Sandy, record witness statements as to the time and present a witness-based timeline.

However I'm not convinced that the person they call LEE Oswald was necessarily the person who shot Tippit. Or all the other HARVEY impersonators who did various things in the name of LHO. I think the Oswald Project could have used a number of impersonators, some of whom who didn't resemble HARVEY at all.

BUT, SANDY, ON 11/22/63 THERE WAS A YOUNG MAN IN DEALEY PLAZA WHO SEVERAL PEOPLE SAW GET INTO THE NASH RAMBLER AND THESE PEOPLE SAID THE YOUNG MAN WAS IDENTICAL TO "LEE HARVEY OSWALD." A FEW BLOCKS AWAY, ON ELM STREET, HARVEY OSWALD (LATER ARRESTED BY THE POLICE) WAS RIDING ON MCWATTERS' BUS (FOLLOWED BY THE TAXI RIDE WITH WILLIAM WHALEY).

AT 10TH & PATTON SEVERAL WITNESSES SAID THE MAN WHO SHOT TIPPIT (LEE OSWALD) WAS IDENTICAL WITH THE MAN ARRESTED BY THE DALLAS POLICE (HARVEY OSWALD).

A DEPUTY SHERIFF SAID THAT THE YOUNG MAN HE SAW IN THE BALCONY OF THE TEXAS THEATER (LEE OSWALD) WAS IDENTICAL TO THE MAN ARRESTED BY THE POLICE IN THE LOWER SECTION OF THE THEATER (HARVEY OSWALD).

WHILE HARVEY OSWALD WAS SITTING IN THE BACK OF A POLICE CAR EN ROUTE TO THE POLICE STATION, A YOUNG MAN (LEE OSWALD) WAS BROUGHT OUT THE REAR OF THE THEATER AND PLACED IN A POLICE CAR.

WHILE HARVEY OSWALD WAS SITTING IN JAIL, T.F. WHITE SAW A YOUNG MAN (LEE OSWALD) SITTING IN A CAR ACROSS THE STREET FROM HIS WORK PLACE. MR. WHITE APPROACHED THE CAR, LOOKED DIRECTLY AT THE DRIVER, THE LATER TOLD POLICE, FBI, AND THE FUTURE MAYOR OF DALLAS THAT THE YOUNG MAN WAS "LEE HARVEY OSWALD."

A CIA AIRCRAFT, EN ROUTE TO NEW MEXICO, LANDED IN THE TRINITY RIVER, A 10 MINUTE DRIVE FROM THE TEXAS THEATER. A PASSENGER ON THIS PLANE, MR. VINSON, LATER SAID THAT A YOUNG MAN (LEE OSWALD) SOON ARRIVED BY CAR, BOARDED THE PLANE, AND THE PLANE TOOK OFF AND LANDED IN ROSWELL, NM. MR. VINSON SAID THE YOUNG MAN WAS IDENTICAL TO LEE HARVEY OSWALD.

NOW, SANDY, I AM SURE YOU REALIZE THAT IF ONLY ONE OF THE ABOVE WERE TRUE, THEN THERE WERE TWO "LEE HARVEY OSWALDS" ON 11/22/63. BUT IF YOU REALLY WANT TO UNDERSTAND "LEE HARVEY OSWALD," THEN YOU SHOULD BEGIN LOOKING AT THE TWO OSWALDS FROM 11/22/63 AND WORK BACKWARDS, MONTH BY MONTH, YEAR BY YEAR (1962, 1961, 1960, 1959...1947), YOU WILL FIND EXAMPLE AFTER EXAMPLE OF HARVEY AND LEE, OFTEN LIVING IN THE SAME CITY AT THE SAME TIME.

NOW, COULD THERE HAVE BEEN MORE THAN ONE "LEE HARVEY OSWALD" IN THE OSWALD PROJECT? YES, OF COURSE. BUT WHERE IS THE PROOF? WHERE IS THE PROOF OF A THIRD OR FOURTH OSWALD?

THE OSWALD PROJECT WAS A HIGH-LEVEL CIA PLAN USED TO INFILTRATE A VERY YOUNG (8-9 YEARS OLD) RUSSIAN SPEAKING REFUGEE FROM WWII (HARVEY) INTO THE SOVIET UNION IN 1959 (NOW AGE 19) BY USING LEE HARVEY OSWALD'S BIOGRAPHICAL HISTORY. TWO YOUNG BOYS (HARVEY AND LEE) WERE PLACED SIDE BY SIDE (NOT LITERALLY, BUT ALWAYS NEARBY) FOR 10-12 YEARS IN ORDER TO GIVE THE RUSSIAN-SPEAKING HARVEY FIRST-HAND KNOWLEDGE OF LEE OSWALD AND HIS SCHOOLS, FRIENDS, CITIES, FAMILY LIFE, ETC (THIS WAS ALL PRIOR TO OSWALD'S "DEFECTION" IN 1959).

AFTER HARVEY RETURNED TO THE USA, IN MID-1962, PLANS WERE MADE TO ASSASSINATE JFK. IF THE CIA USED A THIRD OR FOURTH "LEE HARVEY OSWALD" IT WOULD HAVE BEEN DURING THE MONTHS PRIOR TO THE ASSASSINATION. PERSONALLY, I THINK THIS FAR TOO RISKY WHEN PLANNING THE ASSASSINATION OF A U.S. PRESIDENT. WITH THE POSSIBLE EXCEPTION OF THE ALICE, TEXAS INCIDENTS, WHEN, WHY, AND WHERE WERE THE THIRD AND FOURTH OSWALD USED? FOR WHAT PURPOSE? APPEARANCES OF A SECOND OSWALD ARE DIFFICULT ENOUGH TO EXPLAIN (SPORTS DROME RIFLE RANGE, RALPH YATES, MCBRIDE, ETC), BUT APPEARANCES OF A THIRD AND/OR FOURTH OSWALD WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH MORE DIFFICULT TO EXPLAIN, AND PERHAPS CAUSE PEOPLE TO WONDER ABOUT THE INVOLVEMENT OF INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES. ADDITIONALLY, THERE IS NO DOCUMENTATION OR TESTIMONY THAT INDICATES A THIRD AND FOURTH OSWALD. FURTHERMORE, AFTER THE PRESIDENT WAS KILLED, THE THIRD AND FOURTH LHO'S WOULD MOST CERTAINLY HAVE BEEN ELIMINATED AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE (AS WAS THE SECOND LHO--HARVEY).

THIRD OR FOURTH OSWALDS?? WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE??

There's no need to yell, Jim. In my post you're replying to I said:

"I do believe they [Jim and John Armstrong) have a strong case for HARVEY and LEE."

So you see, I'm in agreement with you guys.

You ask where the evidence is for an Oswald impersonator besides LEE Oswald. How about this:

I'll have to say that Armstrong's work is well documented comparing two different people (H and L). The other research I did (I wish I could tell you where I read this but I've forgotten) involving someone going around calling himself "Leon" and doing things like driving a car in a dealership wrecklessly has convinced me that they were greasing the screw for the big Lone Nut reveal on 11/22

Michael,

I'm trying to talk John into writing up a new page for our website about how, in and around Dallas in the weeks preceding the JFK hit, LEE Oswald impersonated HARVEY Oswald and set him up to be the patsy. In the meantime, though, John did a terrific job summarizing these events in his 1997 speech at the November in Dallas conference.

You can read that speech here:

http://harveyandlee.net/NID97.htm

However I'm not convinced that the person they call LEE Oswald was necessarily the person who shot Tippit. Or all the other HARVEY impersonators who did various things in the name of LHO. I think the Oswald Project could have used a number of impersonators, some of whom who didn't resemble HARVEY at all.

BUT, SANDY, ON 11/22/63 THERE WAS A YOUNG MAN IN DEALEY PLAZA WHO SEVERAL PEOPLE SAW GET INTO THE NASH RAMBLER AND THESE PEOPLE SAID THE YOUNG MAN WAS IDENTICAL TO "LEE HARVEY OSWALD." A FEW BLOCKS AWAY, ON ELM STREET, HARVEY OSWALD (LATER ARRESTED BY THE POLICE) WAS RIDING ON MCWATTERS' BUS (FOLLOWED BY THE TAXI RIDE WITH WILLIAM WHALEY).

AT 10TH & PATTON SEVERAL WITNESSES SAID THE MAN WHO SHOT TIPPIT (LEE OSWALD) WAS IDENTICAL WITH THE MAN ARRESTED BY THE DALLAS POLICE (HARVEY OSWALD).

A DEPUTY SHERIFF SAID THAT THE YOUNG MAN HE SAW IN THE BALCONY OF THE TEXAS THEATER (LEE OSWALD) WAS IDENTICAL TO THE MAN ARRESTED BY THE POLICE IN THE LOWER SECTION OF THE THEATER (HARVEY OSWALD).

WHILE HARVEY OSWALD WAS SITTING IN THE BACK OF A POLICE CAR EN ROUTE TO THE POLICE STATION, A YOUNG MAN (LEE OSWALD) WAS BROUGHT OUT THE REAR OF THE THEATER AND PLACED IN A POLICE CAR.

WHILE HARVEY OSWALD WAS SITTING IN JAIL, T.F. WHITE SAW A YOUNG MAN (LEE OSWALD) SITTING IN A CAR ACROSS THE STREET FROM HIS WORK PLACE. MR. WHITE APPROACHED THE CAR, LOOKED DIRECTLY AT THE DRIVER, THE LATER TOLD POLICE, FBI, AND THE FUTURE MAYOR OF DALLAS THAT THE YOUNG MAN WAS "LEE HARVEY OSWALD."

A CIA AIRCRAFT, EN ROUTE TO NEW MEXICO, LANDED IN THE TRINITY RIVER, A 10 MINUTE DRIVE FROM THE TEXAS THEATER. A PASSENGER ON THIS PLANE, MR. VINSON, LATER SAID THAT A YOUNG MAN (LEE OSWALD) SOON ARRIVED BY CAR, BOARDED THE PLANE, AND THE PLANE TOOK OFF AND LANDED IN ROSWELL, NM. MR. VINSON SAID THE YOUNG MAN WAS IDENTICAL TO LEE HARVEY OSWALD.

NOW, SANDY, I AM SURE YOU REALIZE THAT IF ONLY ONE OF THE ABOVE WERE TRUE, THEN THERE WERE TWO "LEE HARVEY OSWALDS" ON 11/22/63. BUT IF YOU REALLY WANT TO UNDERSTAND "LEE HARVEY OSWALD," THEN YOU SHOULD BEGIN LOOKING AT THE TWO OSWALDS FROM 11/22/63 AND WORK BACKWARDS, MONTH BY MONTH, YEAR BY YEAR (1962, 1961, 1960, 1959...1947), YOU WILL FIND EXAMPLE AFTER EXAMPLE OF HARVEY AND LEE, OFTEN LIVING IN THE SAME CITY AT THE SAME TIME.

NOW, COULD THERE HAVE BEEN MORE THAN ONE "LEE HARVEY OSWALD" IN THE OSWALD PROJECT? YES, OF COURSE. BUT WHERE IS THE PROOF? WHERE IS THE PROOF OF A THIRD OR FOURTH OSWALD?

THE OSWALD PROJECT WAS A HIGH-LEVEL CIA PLAN USED TO INFILTRATE A VERY YOUNG (8-9 YEARS OLD) RUSSIAN SPEAKING REFUGEE FROM WWII (HARVEY) INTO THE SOVIET UNION IN 1959 (NOW AGE 19) BY USING LEE HARVEY OSWALD'S BIOGRAPHICAL HISTORY. TWO YOUNG BOYS (HARVEY AND LEE) WERE PLACED SIDE BY SIDE (NOT LITERALLY, BUT ALWAYS NEARBY) FOR 10-12 YEARS IN ORDER TO GIVE THE RUSSIAN-SPEAKING HARVEY FIRST-HAND KNOWLEDGE OF LEE OSWALD AND HIS SCHOOLS, FRIENDS, CITIES, FAMILY LIFE, ETC (THIS WAS ALL PRIOR TO OSWALD'S "DEFECTION" IN 1959).

AFTER HARVEY RETURNED TO THE USA, IN MID-1962, PLANS WERE MADE TO ASSASSINATE JFK. IF THE CIA USED A THIRD OR FOURTH "LEE HARVEY OSWALD" IT WOULD HAVE BEEN DURING THE MONTHS PRIOR TO THE ASSASSINATION. PERSONALLY, I THINK THIS FAR TOO RISKY WHEN PLANNING THE ASSASSINATION OF A U.S. PRESIDENT. WITH THE POSSIBLE EXCEPTION OF THE ALICE, TEXAS INCIDENTS, WHEN, WHY, AND WHERE WERE THE THIRD AND FOURTH OSWALD USED? FOR WHAT PURPOSE? APPEARANCES OF A SECOND OSWALD ARE DIFFICULT ENOUGH TO EXPLAIN (SPORTS DROME RIFLE RANGE, RALPH YATES, MCBRIDE, ETC), BUT APPEARANCES OF A THIRD AND/OR FOURTH OSWALD WOULD HAVE BEEN MUCH MORE DIFFICULT TO EXPLAIN, AND PERHAPS CAUSE PEOPLE TO WONDER ABOUT THE INVOLVEMENT OF INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES. ADDITIONALLY, THERE IS NO DOCUMENTATION OR TESTIMONY THAT INDICATES A THIRD AND FOURTH OSWALD. FURTHERMORE, AFTER THE PRESIDENT WAS KILLED, THE THIRD AND FOURTH LHO'S WOULD MOST CERTAINLY HAVE BEEN ELIMINATED AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE (AS WAS THE SECOND LHO--HARVEY).

THIRD OR FOURTH OSWALDS?? WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE??

Was Davis referring to Croy when she said the policemen had arrived? Yes, though not him alone He was one of the policemen who had arrived.

CROY WAS NOT "ONE OF THE FIRST POLICEMEN TO ARRIVE" HE WAS THE FIRST POLICEMAN TO ARRIVE. QUESTION: IF HONEST KEN DROVE TO 10TH & PATTON WHY IS HIS PERSONAL CAR NOT SHOWN ON FILM/PHOTOGRAPHS AT OR NEAR 10TH & PATTON? IF CROY DROVE TO THE SCENE IN HIS PERSONAL CAR, THEN IT IS NEAR CERTAIN THAT HE WOULD HAVE PARKED HIS CAR WITHIN A FEW FEET OF TIPPIT AND/OR HIS PATROL CAR. HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THE ABSENCE OF CROY'S PERSONAL CAR AT THE SCENE?

In fact, her statement that "the police had already arrived" gives a clue as to what time period she was speaking of. Since she said "the police," and since "police" is plural, she must have been talking about when at least the second police officer had also arrive. And that could NOT have been when she and her sister in law first walked out the door. Unless they stayed inside for several minutes before walking out.

The bottom line is that Virginia Davis did not testify that Croy was there any earlier than when he said he arrived.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS THAT VIRGINA DAVIS SAID POLICEMEN WERE ALREADY THERE AS SHE APPROACHED TIPPIT LYING IN THE STREET (SOME 10 MINUTES BEFORE OFFICER POE AND OTHER POLICE OFFICERS ARRIVED). NOW, I HAVE ASKED THIS QUESTION BEFORE, SANDY, AND I WILL ASK IT AGAIN....."IF NOT CROY, THEN WHO WAS THE POLICEMAN TO WHOM VIRGINIA DAVIS WAS REFERRING?"

I've always admired Armstrong's research, including the part about Jack Rubenstein being associated with Nixon back in the 1940's. But I've always been a little skeptical about his theory of Harvey and Lee. I do think there was someone going around doing things to make Oswald look crazy - like the guy who shot someone else's target at a range and that kind of thing - but the whole Harvey and Lee thing has always sounded a little bit too out there for me.

There is nothing in their testimonies indicating that they saw Officer Croy specifically. When Virginia Davis said the police were "already there," she wasn't talking about when she first went to the front door. It was later. (Jim says the police had arrived by the time the Davises walked out their front door. But there is nothing indicating that.) And Virginia Davis didn't say a policeman (singular) was "already there"... she said "the police," which means multiple policemen. Obviously not referring specifically to an Officer Croy who had arrived very early, on foot.

Mr. BELIN. All right, after this, did police come out there?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes; they was already there.

Mr. BELIN. By the time you got out there?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes, sir.

Who else could she have been referring to other than Ken Croy? Croy has said he was the first policeman on the scene. A consensus of assassination researchers, looking at all the evidence, believes Croy was the first cop there. Who else could it be? How did he just happen to be there seconds after the shooter passed the Davises?

Sure sounds like that smiling cop killer wanted to be seen, doesn't it? It's almost as if he knew that someone who looked quite a bit like himself was already at the Texas Theater ready to be busted--and the killer was headed that way.

Virginia Davis said the police were already at the Tippit murder scene when she and her sister stepped out their front door:

Mrs. DAVIS. We saw a boy walking, cutting across our yard.

Mr. BELIN. Where was he when you first saw him?

Mrs. DAVIS. He was about 3 feet from the sidewalk. Not the one that comes up to our front door, but the other sidewalk.

Mr. BELIN. He was about 3 feet from the front sidewalk on East l0th?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Had he come up to your sidewalk yet that comes up from East 10th to your front door?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes, he had already. He was about half on the concrete, I think.

Mr. BELIN. He was half on that concrete?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you watch this man do?

Mrs. DAVIS. We watched him unload the shells out of his gun.

Mr. BELIN. What hand was he holding this gun in?

Mrs. Davis. In the right.

Mr. BELIN. He was holding the gun in his right hand. if you remember?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. What was he doing with his left hand?

Mrs. DAVIS. He was emptying the shells in his left hand.

Mr. BELIN. Was the gun broken open. so to speak? In other words. I don’t know if you have ever seen a capgun. When you want to load the capgun, you have to kind of break it apart on a hinge. Was the gun broken apart like that, or was the barrel straight?

Mrs. DAVIS. It was like the real gun, little one.

Mr. BELIN. What do you mean it was just like?

Mrs. DAVIS. It was just as best as I can remember, it was a little pistol, and he was emptying the shells. Where the shell was coming nut, he was emptying the shells into his left hand.

Mr. BELIS. Did you see what he did with the shells when he emptied them into his left hand?

Mrs. DAVIS. After we, well, he was dropping them on the ground because we found two.

Mr. BELIN. You said that you found two? Did you see him drop them on the ground or not?

Mrs. DAVIS. So; we didn’t see him.

Mr. BELIN. You just saw him emptying shells in his hand?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes.

Mr. BELIN. You didn’t actually see what he did with them when he got them in his hand, did you?

Mrs. DAVIS. No, sir.

Mr. BELIN. You are nodding your head no?

Mrs. DAVIS. No.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you see the man do?

Mrs. DAVIS. Well, he just cut across. He disappeared from behind the corner of the house.

Mr. BELIN. Going toward what street?

Mrs. DAVIS. Well, going toward Jefferson Street.

Mr. BELIN. He was headed on Patton in the direction toward Jefferson?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Did you see him actually get to Patton Street?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes ; he was already around the corner.

Mr. BELIN. You saw him go around the corner of your home?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes. Mr. BELIN. What did you do or see then?

Mrs. DAVIS. Well, we just went out, because we had already called the police, notified them, and we went out in the yard.

Mr. BELIN. You notified the police. Let me ask you this. Did you notify the police before or after you saw the boy with the gun?

Mrs. DAVIS. Let’s see, I think it was before.

Mr. BELIN. When you say before, what do you mean?

Mrs. DAVIS. Well, before we saw the boy.

Mr. BELIN. Before you saw the boy you notified the police?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Well, let me try and reconstruct your actions then. You heard the shots?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. You ran to the door?

Mr. BELIN. What did you see when you got to the door?

Mrs. DAVIS. Well, we just saw, you know, the police car parked down there and we wondered what was going on, so we heard Mrs. Markham across the street calling.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mrs. DAVIS. Well, she told us to call the police, well, so we went to the house. We was already in the house, and we went to the phone and called the police.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mrs. DAVIS. Then we went back to the front door.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mrs. DAVIS. We saw the boy cutting across the street.

Mr. BEI.IN. Then what did do or see?

Mrs. DAVIS. After he disappeared around the corner we ran out in the front yard and down to see what had happened.

Mr. BELIN. Then is that when you saw the policeman?

Mrs. DAVIS. I saw the policeman lying on the street.

Mr. BELIN. All right. Did you see or do anything else? Did you see anyone else that you know come up to the policeman?

Mrs. DAVIS. No sir; there was a lot of people around there.

Mr. BELIN. Do you remember about what time of day this was?

Mrs. DAVIS. I wouldn’t say for sure. But it was about 1:30. between 1:30 and 2.

Mr. BELIN. All right, after this, did police come out there?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes; they was already there.

Mr. BELIN. By the time you got out there?

Mrs. DAVIS. Yes, sir.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mrs. DAVIS. Well, we just stood out there and watched. You know, tried to see how it all happened. But we saw part of it.

Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do?

Mrs. DAVIS. We stood out there until after the ambulance had come and picked him up.

(Boldface emphasis added by me)