Jim Hargrove

Perhaps Bob Prudhomme could comment on the observations of Malcom Price. If Price saw “Oswald” at the Sports Drome Rifle Range with a Mauser less than a month before the hit, then it would seem that the plotters would have made certain a Mauser was found on the TSBD 6^th floor. If that rifle had ties to Castro (such as the Savage rifles “Lee Oswald” attempted to buy from Castro gunrunner Robert McKeown), then it would make sense that it had to disappear in order to blame the assassination on a Lone Nut.

From Harvey and Lee:

While Harvey was relaxing at 1026 N. Beckley, Lee Oswald once again visited

the Sports Drome Rifle Range. Malcolm Price was shooting in booth #9 and recog-

nized Oswald in the adjoining booth (#8) as the man whose rifle he sighted in during

the evening of October 26. He asked Oswald if his gun was still sighted-in properly

and Oswald replied, "It is shooting just fine."

Commission attorney Liebeler asked Mr. Price, "Did you see the rifle closely

that day-you must have handled it in looking through the scope?" Price replied, "Oh,

yes, I handled it--it was a Mauser-type rifle .... it's strictly a military rifle and it's pat­

terned after the German Mauser .... I thought it was a Mauser because there's a friend

of mine in Grand Prairie that has an Argentine Mauser that was 7.6 and it looked very

familiar-they looked a whole lot alike."

Price continued to describe the rifle and said, "I looked for a brand name so I

could see approximately where it was made, and the only thing that I could find on it

was a serial number.... I saw the serial number and the gun wasn't blued at the time-it

had a bright finish on the barrel. It looked like it had been placed in a lathe and turned

down, as far as-well, in an attempt to sporterize the gun."

Liebeler then showed Price a photograph of the 6.5mm Italian rifle found by

the Dallas Police at the TSBD and asked him if it was the same rifle. Price replied,

"Except for the sling and the forepiece-I would say they are the same gun. The gun

had no sling on it. It did have the mounts on the side for a sling ..... the forepiece is this

top wooden piece; of course, that could be taken off and replaced very easily."

NOTE: It is doubtful the gun Price saw at the rifle range was the gun found at the

TSBD. If it was the same rifle then it was "blued" by a local gunsmith less than 5 days

before the assassination.

Liebeler asked, "Is this the same kind of scope that you saw on the rifle that

Oswald had, the fellow you thought was Oswald?" Price replied, "I believe it was a

Tascosa, since I examined it-it was a Japanese made scope. They make several differ­

ent brands of those things-it could be any of them, but I believe, as I remember it-it

was a Tascosa."

NOTE: The scope on the rifle found at the TSBD was a Japanese-made scope with

"Ordinance Optics" clearly stamped on the housing.

Malcolm Price told the Commission, "It's one of the clearest telescopes that I

have ever seen-one of the brightest ..... He said that he got the thing from a gunsmith in

Cedar Hill for a debt, the gun, and that he bought the scope and that the gunsmith

mounted it for him." Lee Oswald told Price, "It's a Japanese scope and I gave

$18.00 for it."

NOTE: Price told the Commission he didn't know of any gunsmith in Cedar Hill. He

was then shown photographs of Harvey Oswald which had been marked "Pizzo Ex.

No . 453A, 453B, and 453C" (Oswald handing out FPCC literature in New Orleans)

and a photograph of Oswald taken at DPD Headquarters after his arrest. Price identi­

fied all of the photographs as the man he had seen at the rifle range. ¹³⁵

After Price finished looking at Oswald's scope, he (Price) left and booth No. 9

was soon occupied by 58-year-old Garland Glenwill Slack, a heating contractor and real

estate developer. When Lee Oswald began firing at Mr. Slack's target he became angry

and complained to the owner of the range, Floyd Davis.

--Harvey and Lee, pp 773-774

Copyright © 2003 by John Armstrong

I meant to conclude the above by saying that the immediate purpose of the JFK hit was to provoke an invasion of Cuba, which the McKeown rifle purchase by "Lee Oswald," had it succeeded, might well have accomplished.

Jim DiEugenio also has a marvelous Powerpoint presentation showing how out of touch JFK's total foreign policy was with the military industrial intelligence complex's idea of Good Foreign Relations. Very revealing!

Why, just to establish that LHO had purchased the rifle found on the sixth floor, would sane conspirators have concocted such a clumsy conspiracy? (According to conspiracy logic, of course, the answer is: It doesn't matter why they did - they did. But it does kind of matter why they did, if you are insisting on a conspiracy that seems to make no sense at all.)

That's a good question, and I'd like to add to what DJ wrote….

The original plan of the conspirators was quite clearly to put a 300 Savage rifle with scope on the sixth floor TSBD, which was to have been purchased by “Lee Oswald” from a Texan named Robert McKeown, who was a personal friend of Fidel Castro and had been convicted of running guns to him during the Cuban revolution.

Here is the conclusion of John's write-up on the mail order rifle:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Labor Day weekend, 1963, Robert McKeown, his wife, and friend Sam Niel were in McKeown's house in Texas when a car drove into the driveway and two men soon knocked on his front door. When McKeown opened the door the American said, "You are McKeown, are you not? I understand that you can supply any amount of arms." McKeown asked for the man's name and he introduced himself as LEE Oswald (not Lee Harvey Oswald), and his friend as Mr. Hernandez. Oswald asked McKeown if he could obtain rifles, and offered to pay him $10,000 for four 300 Savage rifles with scopes. Somewhat perplexed, McKeown told Oswald that he could buy the same rifles at Sears & Roebuck for $75 and then asked, "Why come to me?"

McKeown, who was nearing the end of his 5-year probation for running guns to Castro, was leery of Oswald and refused his offer. McKeown told the (HSCA), "I said, you are not going to get them through me. I did not want anymore part of any kind of rifles. I would not be caught with a rifle. I said, you came to the wrong man, I am not going to get involved, and thank God I did not get them."

LEE Oswald and Hernandez left the house and were walking toward their car when McKeown closed the door. McKeown said to his friend Sam Niel, "Ain't that a hell of a mess?" Niel replied, "Mac, don't mess with them." A few minutes later LEE Oswald returned and knocked on McKeown's door. He repeated his offer, which McKeown again refused, and then left with Hernandez and never returned.

NOTE: After the assassination Sam Neil saw Oswald's picture on television. He called McKeown and said, "Mac, are you watching the TV..…That's the bastard who was at your house that got killed, that Ruby killed."

The HSCA asked McKeown why Oswald would offer him so much money for a rifle and he replied, "That is what puzzled me, why would he come to me to buy rifles." McKeown may have been puzzled, but it made perfect sense to those who were setting up Lee HARVEY Oswald (Marina's husband) as the "patsy." On Labor Day weekend, when Lee HARVEY Oswald was in New Orleans, LEE Oswald visited Robert McKeown in Texas. CIA-handlers were using LEE Oswald in an attempt to create the illusion that Castro furnished rifles to Lee HARVEY Oswald through his friend and former gunrunner, Robert McKeown.

If LEE Oswald had managed to purchase rifles from McKeown, then one of those rifles would probably have been found on the 6th floor of the TSBD after the assassination of President Kennedy. The rifle would have been traced back to Cuban gun-runner Robert McKeown, and there is little doubt that Castro would have been blamed for JFK's murder. The American public, and the CIA-influenced media, would have demanded an immediate retaliatory invasion of Cuba. The US military would respond, overthrow Castro, and thousands of Cuban exiles would be able to return to their homeland. In the author's opinion,LEE Oswald's attempt to purchase rifles from Robert McKeown on Labor Day, 1963, was the most significant and obvious attempt to link "Lee HARVEYOswald" to Castro and Cuba. During the next two months LEE Oswald impersonated HARVEY Oswald on numerous occasions, in an attempt to set him up as a "patsy", and create the illusion that HARVEY Oswald was planning to kill JFK.

LEE Oswald's attempt to purchase rifles from Robert McKeown is important for two reasons. First, and most important, was the attempt to purchase a rifle from McKeown and then link that rifle (assassination weapon) to Castro and Cuba. Secondly, the attempt to purchase rifles from McKeown was a good indication that as of Labor Day weekend, 1963, the assassination weapon had not yet been chosen. And, as we have seen from the evidence, Kleins did not sell nor ship C2766 to Lee HARVEY Oswald in March, 1963.

From http://harveyandlee.net/Mail_Order_Rifle/Mail_Order_Rifle.html

Copyright © 2016 by John Armstrong

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

McKeown didn't want to testify to the HSCA, and refused to do so until he was granted full immunity. I'm surprised the HSCA took his testimony, but it was suppressed for decades. It can now be read in full HERE.

The Carcano was an afterthought, the plan put together some time after the effort to purchase a Savage rifle from Castro's personal gunrunner failed. It is one of the weakest points in an otherwise brilliant plot.

I've never seen the back side of this so-called document, but wouldn't you think Waldman or one of those expensive WC attorneys might think to look at the deposit slip--front and back--at that point?

I think there's a good chance that the "Extra Copy" of the deposit ticket was never sent to the bank by Klein's. It's a carbon copy of the original ticket that could very well have just stayed with Klein's all the time for their records. So if it never was sent to First National, of course it would never have been stamped by the bank.

It certainly does look like a carbon copy.

Would a carbon copy have gone to the bank with the original, and been stamped? I think the answer to both questions would be no.

It makes a whole lot of sense, then, that Waldman would say that he had no way of knowing the date of deposit.

Really? Waldman (or a WC attorney or staff member) couldn't call the First National Bank of Chicago and ask when Kleins had last made a deposit of $13,827.98? For that matter, why couldn't Waldman have merely looked at Kleins' FNBC bank statements for those earlier months in 1963 and checked to find when the $13,827.98 deposited. I'll bet there was only one deposit in that amount for the whole year.

Waldman was the vice president of a huge mail order outfit in Chicago. He doesn't know this simple stuff? And the well-paid WC attorneys? They let that kind of weasel language slide under the table? My guess--just a guess--is that Waldman said something else entirely.

Jim,

As you know, I have determined to my satisfaction that the Hidell money order was forged. I consider the fake PMO to be a "smoking gun." In contrast, there are other unusual things that, when taken alone, can be explained away as innocent mistakes. For example, the 2/15/63 date on the deposit slip you posted, which could conceivably have been an innocent mistake. It's only when the whole picture is being considered that such things can be convincingly exposed as being mistakes made by cover-up artists.

I'd like to play devil's advocate, the purpose being to identify additional "smoking guns." This exercise could prove useful, for example when trying to persuade others that the mail order gun purchase never took place.

No rhetorical sleight-of-hand can keep this evidentiary house of cards from collapsing and utterly destroying the Warren Commission's story of the so-called mail order rifle purchase. Not only is the Magic Money Order demonstrably fraudulent, so is the rest of the so-called “evidence” allegedly supporting it!

We're told that the fine document reproduced below is a deposit slip indicating that Klein's deposited $13,827.98 with the First National Bank of Chicago, which included a $21.45 Magic Money Order from “Lee Harvey Oswald.” Look at it!

Note that there is no bank or date stamp on the document indicating it was actually received by the bank! Try bringing a document like that to your local bank and ask them to come up with THE MONEY YOU CLAIM THEY DIDN'T DEPOSIT TO YOUR ACCOUNT! Without a dated bank stamp, they'll laugh at you, and rightfully so! Anyone can make up a document like that.

I assume that the back side of the deposit slip isn't available to view. Is there any reason to believe that receipt markings should be seen on the front side of the slip?

But that's not the worst problem. Look at the date: 2/15/63—February 15, 1963.

That's right! THE DEPOSIT SLIP FOR THE MAGIC MONEY ORDER WAS ALLEGEDLY WRITTEN OUT A MONTH BEFORE THE MAGIC MONEY ORDER WAS ISSUED IN DALLAS! A MONTH BEFORE!!!

This could have been an innocent mistake.

Sandy,

I've got very little free time today, but....

When Waldman was testifying to the WC, he was supposedly shown the alleged deposit slip (it's part of Waldman Ex. 10) and he was asked when the money order was deposited and he said something like, "I have no way of knowing." That's a pretty strange answer for someone who is holding... or has access to... the deposit slip itself. I've never seen the back side of this so-called document, but wouldn't you think Waldman or one of those expensive WC attorneys might think to look at the deposit slip--front and back--at that point?

.... in my estimation as a Critic, Armstrong's research and theory were decisively thumped, thumped and thumped

Ah... Lance,

Are you REALLY that sure?

I disagree....

To David Von Pein...

Below is some EXTRA SPACE to post your evidence against the Magic Money Order and it's equally bogus "Supporting Evidence". Please don't run away to your blog of IMAGINARY CONVERSATIONS.... PLEASE POST YOUR EVIDENCE IMMEDIATELY BELOW:

I'm sure you'll post REAL EVIDENCE ABOVE (or below... or whatever....)

Banks have always been required to stamp PMOs. (By "always," I mean from at least 1900 to at least 2000.)

Lance Payette posted the1960 Federal Reserve Bank circular that indicates that ALL cash items (which specifically includes postal money orders) were required to have bank stamps. I subsequently found and posted documents showing that this same requirement was in place prior to 1951, the year FRBs began processing PMOs in accordance with an agreement between them and the Postmaster General. I did the same for PMOs dated between 1987, when the Expedited Funds Act was initiated, and 2001.

Just recently I posted a letter dated 1898 indicating that the same requirement was in place then. I posted the letter because it reveals the early rationale for the bank stamp requirement, and how bank stamps were differentiated from bank endorsements on negotiable instruments.

I have posted documents dated 1898, 1925, 1960, 1969, and 2001, all indicating that PMOs required a bank stamp from presenting banks. Together, these documents show a continuity in the way banks handled PMOs throughout the 1900s.

In contrast, Lance believes that beginning in 1951, when Federal Reserve Banks began processing all PMOs, stamps from presenting banks were no longer required. Even though this contradicts what FRB circulars state. Yet he hasn't produced a single document supporting his view. I contend that Lance cannot produce such a document because no such document exists. I contend that Lance is therefore wrong.

Until such time that Lance produces such I document, I do not see how his claim can be taken seriously. Regardless of how strenuously he argues his claim.

Thanks again, Sandy.

Your patient work on the Magic Money Order is most appreciated!

Hi, David,

The website you point to above, which is filled with IMAGINARY CONVERSATIONS YOU HAVE EXCERPTED FROM PEOPLE HERE WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION, SHUFFLED AND EDITED TO YOUR ADVANTAGE, is longer than the average book.

If you have arguments for my posts above, PLEASE POST THEM RIGHT HERE, ON NEUTRAL GROUND!

I don't run away and hide on HarveyandLee.net. I post my arguments RIGHT HERE! Let's have an honest discussion that all can see!

No rhetorical sleight-of-hand can keep this evidentiary house of cards from collapsing and utterly destroying the Warren Commission's story of the so-called mail order rifle purchase. Not only is the Magic Money Order demonstrably fraudulent, so is the rest of the so-called “evidence” allegedly supporting it!

We're told that the fine document reproduced below is a deposit slip indicating that Klein's deposited $13,827.98 with the First National Bank of Chicago, which included a $21.45 Magic Money Order from “Lee Harvey Oswald.” Look at it!

Note that there is no bank or date stamp on the document indicating it was actually received by the bank! Try bringing a document like that to your local bank and ask them to come up with THE MONEY YOU CLAIM THEY DIDN'T DEPOSIT TO YOUR ACCOUNT! Without a dated bank stamp, they'll laugh at you, and rightfully so! Anyone can make up a document like that.

But that's not the worst problem. Look at the date: 2/15/63—February 15, 1963.

That's right! THE DEPOSIT SLIP FOR THE MAGIC MONEY ORDER WAS ALLEGEDLY WRITTEN OUT A MONTH BEFORE THE MAGIC MONEY ORDER WAS ISSUED IN DALLAS! A MONTH BEFORE!!!

Here's another fine document:

The previously mentioned $13,827.98 deposit contained hundreds of items for deposit that are listed on 5 pages of adding machine tape (see below). According to Waldman there are two entries in the amount of $21.45, both listed in the column "Checks on other Chicago Banks." One was supposed to be an American Express money order and the other was supposed to be a postal money order.

However, a close examination of this WC document reveals there were a half-dozen deposit items in the amount of $21.45 ($21.45 items noted in green by David Josephs), and none were identifiable as to cash, check, money order, bank draft, etc. There is no way that Waldman, or anyone examining this list of deposit items, would know the source (check, money order, etc) of a particular item. And when an FBI report states that Waldman (or anyone else) identified a $21.45 money order from this list, then we know that such information was simply not true.

Wilmouth allegedly told the agents the $21.45 money order (included in the $13,827.98 deposit) was received by Kleins on March 13, processed by his bank on March 16 (Saturday), and received by the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago on March 18, 1963. Where did he get this information? Wilmouth was Vice-President of the bank, and banking was his business. Yet the date on the non-stamped bank deposit slip, to which he is referring, is not March 15, nor March 16, 1963. The date on this deposit slip (published in the Warren Volumes) is February 15, 1963--one month before the postal money order was issued in Dallas. However, there is no dated bank stamp. Why would the Vice-President of one of the country's largest banks make such an obvious mistake?

Why didn't Wilmouth, or the FBI agents, simply review and offer in evidence Klein's monthly bank statement for March, 1963, which would have shown the date of the $13,827.98 deposit (if such a deposit existed)? Without bank confirmation the numbers on these adding machine tapes and the $13,827.98 that appears on the non-stamped, non bank dated deposit slip are worthless as evidence. The use of such worthless "evidence" by skilled Warren Commission attorneys, and their failure to support their "evidence" with one monthly bank statement, cannot be dismissed as an innocent mistake.

Who defends this crap?

(Portions of the above are by John Armstrong,

Copyright 2013-2016, from HarveyandLee.net)

Sandy Larsen started a thread about the magic money order that seems to have disappeared, so I thought if anyone wanted to discuss it some more, we could do it here. Here is an image of the front and back of the questioned document:

Anyone see a dated bank endorsement on it?

As Sandy Larsen has shown here, postal regulations published in 1960 required dated endorsements on Postal money orders:

Items which will be accepted as cash items

1. The following will be accepted for collection as cash items:

(1) Checks drawn on banks or banking institutions (including private

bankers) located in any Federal Reserve District which are collectible

at par in funds acceptable to the collecting Federal Reserve Bank. The

“ Federal Reserve Par List,” indicating the banks upon which checks will

be received by Federal Reserve Banks for collection and credit, is fur­

nished from time to time and a supplement is furnished each month

showing changes subsequent to the last complete list. This list is subject

to change without notice and the right is reserved to return without

presentment any items drawn on banks which may have withdrawn or

may have been removed from the list or may have been reported elosed.

(2) Government checks drawn on the Treasurer of the United States.

(3) Postal money orders (United States postal money orders; United

States international postal money orders; and domestic-international

postal money orders).

(4) Such other items, collectible at par in funds acceptable to the

Federal Reserve Bank of the District in which such items are payable, as

we may be willing to accept as cash items.

o

o

o

Postal money orders

11. Postal money orders will be handled in accordance with

an agreement made by the Postmaster General, in behalf of the

United States, and the Federal Reserve Banks as depositaries and

fiscal agents of the United States pursuant to authorization of the

Secretary of the Treasury; and with respect to matters not covered

by such agreement, the provisions of Regulation J, this circular and

our time schedules shall be deemed applicable to all postal money

orders. Immediate credit will be given to member banks and non­

member clearing banks for postal money orders as provided in our

time schedules and simultaneously with such credit we will debit the

amount of such money orders against the general account of the Treas­

urer of the United States under such symbol numbers as may be

assigned by the Treasurer of the United States. Said agreement fur­

ther provides in effect that no claim for refund or otherwise with

respect to any money order debited against the general account of

the Treasurer of the United States and delivered to the representa­

tive of the Post Office Department as provided in said agreement

(other than a claim based on the negligence of a Federal Reserve

Bank) will be made against or through any Federal Reserve Bank;

that if the Post Office Department makes any such claim with respect

to any such money order, such money order will not be returned or

sent to a Federal Reserve Bank, but the Post Office Department will

deal directly with the bank or the party against which such claim is

made; and that the Federal Reserve Banks will assist the Post Office

Department in making such claim, including making their records

and any relevant evidence in their possession available to the Post

Office Department

o

o

o

Endorsements

13. All cash items sent to us, or to another Federal Reserve Bank

direct for our account, should be endorsed without restriction to the

order of the Federal Reserve Bank to which sent, or endorsed to the

order of any bank, banker or trust company, or with some similar

endorsement. Cash items will be accepted by us, and by other Federal

Reserve Banks, only upon the understanding and condition that all

prior endorsements are guaranteed by the sending bank. There should

be incorporated in the endorsement of the sending bank the phrase,

“ All prior endorsements guaranteed.” The act of sending or deliver­ing a

cash item to us or to another Federal Reserve Bank will, however,

be deemed and understood to constitute a guaranty of all prior

endorsements on such item, whether or not an express guaranty is

incorporated in the sending bank’s endorsement. The endorsement of

the sending bank should be dated and should show the American

Bankers Association transit number of the sending bank in prominent

type on both sides.

Here are copies of vouchers issued to Lee Harvey Oswald by the Texas Employment Commission. Note the many endorsement on both side.

Below are copies of paychecks from Leslie Welding to Oswald. Note all the endorsements on both sides.

Where are the bank endorsements on the Magic Money Order????

Wow! You should always show this document to Harvey and Lee skeptics, Jim.

Do you know why the drivers license was there? Was it an expired and surrendered license that been stored in the state's files? I don't know why the government would do that.

According to Aletha Frair's sworn statement, "During the week following the murder of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, on either Wednesday the 27th, or Thursday the 28th of November, 1963 the Texas driver's license issued to LEE HARVEY OSWALD came into my division." That doesn't sound as if it was in storage. She also said: "the driver's license which was dirty and worn as though it had been carried in a billfold. The license was the talk of the office that day since everyone knew who OSWALD was, and the reason his driver's license records were being pulled from the active file was the fact that he had been killed."

If the license was in a billfold, there was no shortage of "Oswald" wallets that might have held it. As John A. has written:

NOTE: There were a total of five Oswald wallets: a black plastic wallet (CE 1798); a red billfold found at Ruth Paine's (CE 2003 #382); a brown billfold found at Ruth Paine's (CE 2003 #114); a billfold taken from LHO upon arrest--initialed by HMM (Henry Moore), wallet and contents inventoried and photographed; and the Westbrook wallet, which was not initialed by police, not listed in inventory, not photographed, not mentioned by a single witness to the FBI, WC, HSCA, ARRB, etc. and disappeared, but not before it was filmed by Ron Reiland of WFAA TV and seen by FBI agent Bob Barrett and other police officers.

Sandy,

Russian-speaking Lee HARVEY Oswald (the guy killed by Ruby) didn't have a drivers license and couldn't drive a car, but American-born LEE Oswald apparently DID have a valid Texas drivers license and COULD drive a car. For the evidence, see:

http://harveyandlee.net/Driving/Drive.htm

If Robert Taylor and Glenn Smith were correct that it was “Oswald” driving Ruth Paine's Chevy, it could only have been LEE, and that most likely means that Mrs. Paine was working with BOTH Oswalds. This is just about the time that Russian-speaking HARVEY Oswald is sent to New Orleans to hang out with virulent anti-Communists and pretend he loved Castro. It was the start of the frame-up of Lee HARVEY Oswald as the patsy in the assassination of President Kennedy, which would be continued in and around Dallas in the weeks leading up to the hit.

You obviously can't bet the farm on the observations of just one or two guys, but this COULD be an intriguing insight into Mrs. Paine's involvement in this case.

John Armstrong is just starting work on an article for HarveyandLee.net tentatively entitled "Ruth Paine... Co-Conspirator."

It will be some time before that work is completed, but, in the meantime, I thought readers might be interested in the following

incident taken from John's 2003 book. If accurate, it speaks volumes about Ruth Paine.

Lee Oswald sells a 30.06 rifle

On a Saturday morning in April 1963, two men drove into Jack's Super Shell

Service Station on the southwest corner of Rock Island and Story in Irving, Texas. The

men spoke with 49-year-old Robert Adrian Taylor, the station mechanic, and com-

plained of engine trouble in their car (possibly a 1959 Chevrolet). Taylor determined the

generator of the automobile needed repairs and told the men it would cost $11.50 to

make the repairs.

Neither of the men had enough money and asked Taylor if he would like to buy

a rifle. When Taylor said that he might be interested one of the men opened the trunk

of the car and said, "There it is." Taylor looked at the rifle and saw that it was a Spring-

field, bolt action, 30.06 caliber, serial number 66091, and contained the markings "US

Rock Island Arsenal." He offered the men $12.00 for the rifle, which they accepted, and

he repaired the car.

Taylor described the driver of the car as a white male, approximately 20 years

old, 5-foot-8, with dark hair and a thin face. Taylor told FBI Agent Maurice White the

passenger of the car was identical with the photograph of the man accused of assassi-

nating President Kennedy (Lee Harvey Oswald). Taylor reconditioned the Springfield

rifle and had it in his possession when interviewed by SA White on December 14,

1963.^{126 MAR, 63-19}

Two weeks later the same man came to the Shell station in another car driven

by a woman who lived nearby and often had her car serviced at Jack's Super Shell. Glenn

E. Smith began working with Robert Taylor at the Shell station shortly after Taylor

purchased the rifle. He told FBI agent Maurice White that he serviced a 1957 Chevrolet

(Ruth Paine owned a 1955 Chevrolet station wagon) on numerous occasions for a woman

who lived at 2515 W. 5th in Irving (Ruth Paine's address). On one occasion she dropped

off her car at the station for servicing and left the groceries in the car. Smith delivered

groceries to her home and carried them inside of her house. While in her home, she told

Glenn Smith that her children spoke Russian better than they spoke English.¹²⁷

The Warren Commission never interviewed Robert Taylor, the man who pur-

chased the 30.06 rifle from Lee Oswald, but chose instead to interview Glenn Smith, who was

not yet working with Taylor when he purchased the 30.06 rifle.

NOTE: Once again the Commission intentionally interviewed a person who never met

Oswald (Glenn Smith) instead of a man who had direct contact with Oswald (Robert A.

Taylor). T his is yet another example of how the Commission selectively chose witnesses they

interviewed while avoiding witnesses they considered "troublesome. " T he Commission

used this technique when they interviewed Dr. Hartogs instead of Dr. Kurian, William

Wulf instead of Palmer McBride, Daniel Powers instead of Allen Felde, Helen

Cunningham instead of Laura Kittrell, Owen Dejanovich instead of Lieutenant Charles

Rhodes, and thereby avoided exposing the two Oswalds.

Glenn Smith told Commission attorney Liebeler, "I think he (Taylor) is truth-

ful and I think he is reliable." When Liebeler asked Smith if he thought Taylor would

tell the FBI that he got a rifle from Oswald if he didn't in fact get a rifle from Oswald,

Smith said, "I don't. I sure don't."¹²⁸

From the FBI interview of Robert Taylor the Commission was aware that (Lee)

Oswald may have owned and sold a 30.06 rifle in April 1963. They were aware the Dallas

Police recovered a mutilated 30.06 bullet ("steel-jacketed") from General Walker's

home, that was identified by Dallas Police Detective Ira Van Cleave in his report of April

10, 1963.

With a mutilated 30.06 bullet and the FBI report of Adrian Taylor, the Commis-

sion should have asked the FBI for a ballistic comparison between the Walker bullet and

the rifle that Lee Oswald sold to Robert Taylor, but they did not (even though the FBI

compared the Walker bullet with the Mannlicher-Carcano). They should have asked the FBI

to trace the origin of Taylor's rifle, just as they had traced the origin of the Mannlicher-

Carcano, but they did not. What did the Warren Commission do to prove or disprove that

Taylor had purchased a 30.06 rifle from Oswald? Nothing.

___________________________

NOTES:

¹²⁶ WC Document 205, p. 71-72, Interview of Robert Adrian Taylor by SA Maurice J. White, 12/14/63.

¹²⁷ WC Document 205, p. 69-70, Interview of G. E. Smith by SA Maurice J. White, 12/14/63.

¹²⁸ WC testimony of Glenn Emmett Smith, 10 H 402

--From Harvey and Lee, pp. 521-522

Copyright 2003 by John Armstrong

Jim:

Isn't it amazing that Mckeown was not interviewed by the FBI?

I mean, Ruby, Castro, Oswald.

Even more amazing may be the fact that the HSCA interviewed McKeown--in secret of course. His testimony was suppressed for decades, with just a throwaway line in the report that he said some unbelievable stuff.

Show me who sent "Lee Oswald" to see Robert McKeown and offer all that money for those Savage rifles with scopes, and I'll show you someone taking direct orders from the plotters of the assassination, though probably through cut-outs and all the usual intel procedures. It's almost as if someone at the HSCA was secretly looking for the truth, while publicly peddling all that fiction!

To JIm Di....

John Armstrong has asked me to announce that he is working on the following article....

Ruth Paine... co-conspirator to kill JFK....

In the 1950s, prior to the Cuban revolution, Robert McKeown supplied arms to Fidel Castro and became one of Castro's best friends. After the revolution Castro flew to Houston and met personally with McKeown at the airport. Castro tried to convince McKeown to return to Cuba with him and offered McKeown business concessions or a high position in the Cuban government. McKeown politely refused and Castro returned to Cuba, but the two men remained close friends. Several months later friends of McKeown's brother were arrested by the Cuban militia when fishing within Cuban waters and thrown in jail. When McKeown was told that his brothers' friends were in jail in Cuba, he telephoned Castro and the men were released immediately. The multi-year close relationship between Fidel Castro and Robert McKeown did not go unnoticed.

After the Cuban revolution, Jack Rubenstein contacted McKeown and said he knew that McKeown had influence with Castro. He wanted McKeown's help in getting three individuals out of Cuba. Rubenstein offered McKeown $5,000 for each person who was released, but never came up with the money. Three weeks later a man approached McKeown and introduced himself as Jack Ruby. He told McKeown that he had an option to purchase a large number of jeeps and wanted to sell them to Castro. Ruby wanted a letter of introduction from McKeown, offered to pay $25,000, but never came up with the money.

On Saturday morning, between 9:00 am and 10:00 am on Labor Day weekend, a car arrived at McKeown's home in Baycliff, TX. McKeown, his wife, and friend Sam Neil were in the house when the car arrived and two men walked to the house and knocked on the door. When McKeown opened the door one of the men said, “You are McKeown, are you not? I understand that you can supply any amount of arms.” McKeown asked for the man's name and he introduced himself as "Lee Oswald." Oswald said he wanted to purchase four .300 Savage rifles with scopes and offered to pay Mckeown $10,000. McKeown was on probation for running guns to Castro, and was skeptical of these visitors. He wondered why Oswald would offer him $2500 for a rifle that he could buy at Sears and Roebuck for $75. McKeown then told Oswald that he was on probation and didn't want to get involved selling any more guns. Oswald got in his car and started to drive away, but stopped and once again walked to McKeowns house. He pleaded with McKeown to sell him rifles, but McKeown refused and went back into his house. Following the assassination Sam Neil telephoned McKeown and said, "Mac, are you watching TV? ….That's the bastard who was at your house that got killed, that Ruby killed.” McKeown was not interviewed by the WC, but was interviewed for hours by the HSCA. They asked why Oswald would offer him so much money for the rifles. McKeown replied, “That is what puzzled me, why would he come to me to buy rifles.”

McKeown may have been puzzled, but it made perfect sense to those who were setting up HARVEY Oswald as the “patsy” and attempting to blame Castro for the assassination.

If McKeown had accepted Lee Oswald's offer of $2500 per rifle, then one of those rifles would have been found on the 6th floor of the TSBD by Dallas Police. And that rifle would have been traced back to Castro's close friend, Robert McKeown. The attempt to link (HARVEY) Oswald to Castro through FPCC brochures, Mexico City, Robert McKeown, and radio interviews in New Orleans with CIA asset Edward Scannell Butler is undeniable.

Lee Oswald's attempt to purchase a rifle from Castro's close friend, Robert McKeown, in early September, 1963 strongly suggests that the choice of a rifle to be placed on the 6th floor of the TSBD had not yet been made. This is reason to believe that the Mannlicher Carcano rifle found on the 6th floor was not chosen as the “murder weapon” until after Labor Day weekend, 1963. Despite what is indicated in the Warren Report, neither Oswald nor anyone else ordered a Mannlicher Carcano rifle from Klein's Sporting Goods in March, 1963. Oswald's purchase of a mail order rifle was a complete hoax, with documentation fabricated by the FBI and witness testimony carefully guided by WC attorneys.

Mr. Von Pein not only hijacks without permission wholesale posts from users of this forum to place on his website, but he also stacks the deck so that Warren Commission critics do not get their full full arguments even presented. When he loses a debate here, he just rearranges the text and makes it appear he won.

For proof, see Post 96 on this page.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=22690&page=7

It's quite possible that Oswald went to the post office on March 12th BEFORE he ever went to work at Jaggars that day. That's the most likely answer, IMO. And Gary Mack, five years ago, hinted at that possibility too....

Subject: RE: Buying the Money Order

Date: 3/12/2011 11:01:42 AM Eastern Standard Time

From: Gary Mack

To: David Von Pein

Dave,

Oswald could have left JCS [Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall] at any time between 8am and 10:30 IF there was no work for him to do. Oswald was given simple tasks as they came in, so if no orders were waiting, all he could do was sit and wait.....and get paid for doing so.

I assume he'd have to check with his supervisor about taking a few minutes to go to the post office, but his time card certainly does not confirm that he was on the job every single minute. It merely shows that he was at the office and "on the clock" all day.

And maybe, just maybe, he went over there on JCS business? Or perhaps a co-worker — his supervisor? — also needed something from the PO so Oswald went and took advantage of the opportunity? In short, there are many reasons Oswald's PO visit was entirely legitimate.

It would not surprise me to learn that the Main Post Office opened at 7am, but I don't know that to be the case. I'd have to check the 1963 directories, but I sort of remember doing that years ago. Anyway, I can take a look when I get back to the office on Monday.

Gary

------------------------------------------------

Subject: Main Post Office hours

Date: 3/17/2011 5:28:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time

From: Gary Mack

To: David Von Pein

Hi Dave,

None of the directories at the Museum show the hours at the main post office in Dallas in 1963. However, the USPS online search service shows the main distribution center today opens at 7am. But that building wasn’t there in 1963. The main post office, and presumably the distribution center, was at 400 N. Ervay in 1963 and it would likely have had the early business hours. The Ervay PO is the one that was just a few blocks from J-C-S which was located at 522 Browder. According to Google maps, the two are only 8 blocks, or ½ mile, apart.

Oswald could have walked or run, or probably ridden the bus, since Ervay was a main north-south street. For that matter, he could have bummed a ride from a co-worker.

In short, I don’t see anything that prevents Oswald from getting to the post office, then buying and sending his money order to Klein’s. As to why the envelope is postmarked in a different zone [it probably wasn't, as discussed here], I have no clue, but there’s no evidence such a practice was out of the ordinary.

Gary

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2015/12/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1081.html

Continued WARNING to readers of David Von Pein posts: The links he offers to his JFK Blogspot lead directly to IMAGINARY CONVERSATIONS! He takes--without asking permission--excerpts of statements made by others, shuffles them together in any way he wishes, and then usually concludes that the Warren Commission got things right.

For the subject at hand, the only evidence we have of "Lee Harvey Oswald's" work record on the day he supposedly obtained and mailed the Magic Money Order indicates he was at work doing nine different printing jobs continuously from 8 am to 12:15 pm at the JCS office nine blocks from the downtown Post Office. Today, at least, that office doesn't open until 8 am, when "Oswald" was already at work.

Thanks to Steven Gaal for this link:

http://www.hoursmap.com/c/dallas-tx/us+post+office-hours-locations-s1254658

I do know that ALL postal money orders REQUIRE bank endorsements, if it's NOT endorsed through FDIC which protects a postal money order then it's a forgery.

Sandy,

See notes in blue:

1. The FBI has the Carcano rifle in their possession at 11:45 PM CST on Friday the 22nd, from which they get the serial number C2766.

2. The FBI discovers from a gun dealer in Dallas that Italian surplus WW2 rifles were being distributed by Crescent Firearms in New York City. This leads the FBI to Klein's in Chicago after finding out that Crescent had sold the "C2766" rifle to Klein's. YES, THE FBI FOUND OUT IT WAS SOLD ON 6/18/62. WHY THEN DID THE FBI LATER REPORT THAT CRESCENT SOLD C2766 TO KLEINS IN JANUARY, 1963?

3. Klein's records are searched and the "C2766" Internal Invoice is found (what would become "Waldman Deposition Exhibit No. 7"), which provides pertinent information about the sale of Italian rifle No. C2766 for $21.45 to one A. Hidell of Dallas, Texas (via "M.O." [money order]) on March 20, 1963 (which is the date the FBI goes with THEN EXPLAIN WHY AN FBI MEMO, WRITTEN TO THE SECRET SERVICE, DESCRIBES A RIFLE SOLD BY KLEINS THAT WAS SIMILAR TO C2766 THAT WAS PAID FOR WITH A MONEY ORDER ISSUED ON 3/20/63, instead of the date stamped at the very top of invoice--March 13, 1963--which was the date Klein's put the Hidell order through their cash register, as William Waldman explained in his Warren Commission testimony; the March 20 date was, of course, the date the rifle was shipped to Hidell/Oswald) IT WAS ALSO THE DATE ANOTHER RIFLE WAS SOLD BY KLEINS, AND PAID FOR WITH A MONEY ORDER ISSUED ON 3/20/63..

   In addition to the internal Klein's Internal Invoice, the FBI also found on microfilm the "Order Letter" (as Curry later called it), which is CE773. The Order Letter is the order form clipped by Oswald out of the Feb. '63 American Rifleman magazine, and the envelope in which it was mailed.

   The FBI quickly determined that the writing on the Order Letter was that of Lee Harvey Oswald. YES, AND ACCORDING TO CURRY THE PRICE OF THE RIFLE WAS $12.78, NOT $21.45

   [questions: when were the invoice and order letter found? the microfilmed order letter includes the envelope it was mailed in... seriously, Klein's microfilmed even envelopes? why did the search take seven hours?]

   Internal Invoice Information: 3/13/63 receipt date; 3/20/63 processing & shipping date; $19.95 rifle cost; $21.45 total cost; C2766 serial number; paid by money order; "W/ 4X SCOPE"

   Order Letter Information: Hidell's handwriting; Hidell's address; $19.95 rifle price.

4. Somebody connected with the discovery of the Internal Invoice must have transmitted the wrong purchase price to other FBI personnel ($21.95 instead of $21.45), which led to confusion when the FBI and Secret Service began searching for the money order that was used to pay for the rifle. HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE IF THE FBI HAD THE WRITTEN DOCUMENTATION (KLEINS ORDER FORM) ON 11/23/63?

5. In a hallway press conference on the night of Nov. 23, Chief Jesse Curry refers to the Order Letter.[question: what Order Letter information does he report?] HE REPORTS THE RIFLE WAS SOLD FOR $12.78

6. ???[questions: when did the press get the $12.78 price and 3/20/63 order date information?(REPORTED BY CURRY AND THE PRESS ON 11/23/63) what was the $21.95 I had in my list... I forget... was that reported by the press as well?] THE $21.95 WAS IN AN FBI MEMO TO THE SECRET SERVICE ON 11/23/63

7. According to FBI report CD75, on Nov. 23, the following information was received from the VP of Klein's's bank.

   -- On Mar. 15 1963, Klein's had deposited $13,827.98 in its bank. NO CONFIRMATION OF THE DATE OF DEPOSIT/ DEPOSIT SLIP SAID 2/15/63; WALDMAN TOLD THE WC HE COULD NOT SAY WHEN THE DEPOSIT WAS MADE; The deposit included a $21.45 postal money order IT INCLUDED 7 INDIVIDUAL DEPOSITS OF $21.45--NOT ONE

   -- On Mar. 16 the bank had sent the $21.45 PMO to the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago. NO WAY TO PROVE THIS. NO DOCUMENTATION. NO DATE ON THE MONEY ORDER. It would have been received by the FRB on Mar. 18. PROVE THIS!

8. According to SS report CD87, at about 8:30 PM on Nov. 23 a request was issued to locate and obtain postal money order #2,202,130,462 dated 3/12/63 in the amount of $21.45 payable to Klein's by Alek James Hidell. [question: how and when did the SS get the money order number and date?]

9. ???[question: anything else?] MANY QUESTIONS: 1) LHO ORDERED 36" RIFLE, RECEIVED 40" RIFLE; 2) LHO TIMECARD SHOWS HE COULD DID NOT LEAVE WORK ON 3/12/63; 3) HOW DID MAILING ENVELOPE GET TO ZONE 12 IN DALLAS? 4) WHY NOT A SINGLE BANK STAMP OR DATE STAMP ON MONEY ORDER? 5) WHY NO DATE OR BANK STAMP ON DEPOSIT SLIP FOR $13,827.98? 6) HOW CAN ANYONE IDENTIFY A $21.45 ENTRY AS A MONEY ORDER ON WALDMAN 10 ? 7) FBI AGENT REPORTED TWO RIFLES FOUND ON THE KLEINS MICROFILM SIMILAR TO C2766, BUT NOTHING ABOUT C2766; WHY ?? 8) WHY DOES WALDMAN ALLEGEDLY TELL THE FBI THE $21.45 MONEY ORDER WAS DEPOSITED TO HIS BANK ON 3/13/63, BUT THEN TELLS THE WC THAT HE CANNOT DETERMINE WHEN THIS DEPOSIT WAS MADE? 9) WHAT HAPPENED TO THE MONEY ORDER STUB, ALLEGEDLY FOUND AT THE DALLAS GPO BY HARRY HOLMES? 10) HOW DID ROBERT JACKSON, EMPLOYEE OF THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES IN ALEXANDRIA, VA., COME INTO POSSESSION OF THE MONEY ORDER ON THE NIGHT OF 11/23/63? 11) WHY DID NEITHER THE FBI NOR THE WC ASK WALDMAN FOR A COPY OF THE KLEINS BANK STATEMENT FOR MARCH, 1963 IN ORDER TO DETERMINE IF AND WHEN A $13.827.98 DEPOSIT WAS MADE TO KLEINS ACCOUNT? 12) WALDMAN GAVE FBI AGENT DOLAN THE KLEINS MICROFILM AND DOLAN GAVE HIM A RECEIPT FOR THE MICROFILM. WHY DOES ANOTHER FBI REPORT SAY THE KLEINS MICROFILM WAS LEFT WITH WALDMAN ON 11/23/63? 13) WHY IS THERE A SS REPORT STATING THAT THE MONEY ORDER, FOUND IN KANSAS CITY, WAS BEING SENT TO WASHINGTON DC, WHILE A 2ND MONEY ORDER WAS FOUND IN ALEXANDRIA, VA? 14) WHY WAS NEITHER FBI AGENTS DOLAN, TOEDT, OR MAHAN CALLED TO TESTIFY BEFORE THE WC? 15) WHAT HAPPENED TO THE INFORMATION CONCERNING A RIFLE, SIMILAR TO C2766, THAT WAS SOLD BY KLEINS IN LATE MARCH, 1963, AND PAID FOR WITH A MONEY ORDER ISSUED ON 3/20/63? 16) EXPLAIN WHY, IF THE FBI HAD KLEIN'S ORDER FORM, THE $21.45 MONEY ORDER, ETC., ON 11/23/63, DID THE FBI NOT ANNOUNCE THIS TO THE PRESS? WHY DID THEY WAIT UNTIL 11/29/63? 17) EXPLAIN THE MARCH 20 NOTATION ON RUTH PAINES CALENDAR "LHO PURCHASED A RIFLE" 18) EXPLAIN WHEN AND WHERE OSWALD PURCHASED OR OBTAINED A CLIP AND AMMUNITION FOR THE RIFLE 19) EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED TO THE KLEINS MICROFILM WHILE IN FBI CUSTODY? 20) EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED TO THE POSTAL MONEY ORDER WHILE IN FBI CUSTODY? 21) EXPLAIN WHY THE FBI REPORTS, WHICH REFER TO INTERVIEWS WITH WALDMAN AND WILMOUTH, WERE NOT SIGNED BY THE REPORTING AGENT 22) IF CRESCENT DELIVERED C2766 TO KLEINS IN JANUARY, 1963, THEN EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED TO THE C2766 THAT CRESCENT SOLD TO KLEINS ON 6/18/63 22) WHY WAS LOUIS FELDSOTT NOT INTERVIEWED BY THE FBI OR WARREN COMMISSION?

This all seems consistent so far. I need to insert the information reported by the press and answer the questions in red. Any help would be appreciated.

Hi, David, glad your'e back.

Before we argue about the latest developments, please answer a few questions about your "alternative explanation" above. Most of the stuff above in black is from you. Let's talk!

....

Why couldn't an alternate possibility be (as Lance also suggested in his last post) that Oswald mailed it at the Main Post Office in Dallas and then the letter was moved by the Dallas Post Office employees to "Zone 12" for processing, and then the postmark was stamped on the envelope (after the mailman moved it to "Zone 12")? Why is that possibility not even considered to be remotely plausible by JFK conspiracy theorists? ~shrug~

Or perhaps an alternate alternate possibility is that Oswald never left work the morning he was supposed to have mailed the Magic Money Order to Kleins, as shown in this Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall work product from March 12, 1963:

Just sayin....

~shrug~

To Lance Payette:

Despite saying that you “have read only the original post in this thread and John Armstrong's latest write-up,” you also participated briefly in a 420-reply thread entitled “Yes, postal money orders do require bank endorsements” which was started by Sandy Larsen and in which he carefully proved his point. The entire thread starts here:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=22439

Sandy's post #197 in that thread summarizes the evidence of regulations and agreements among and between the Postmaster General and Federal Reserve Banks proving that postal money orders required bank endorsements and date stamps. It can be read here:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=22439&page=14

Back in the early to mid 1960s, and much later, postal money orders required bank endorsements. It's that simple. It doesn't matter what Wilmouth or Waldman or Belin or John Armstrong may or may not have said about the issue. Postal money orders required bank endorsements and date stamps, as is inferred by the print on the back of the form, and clearly required by regulations and agreements cited at the links above.

The “File Locator Number,” assuming for a moment that your identification and description of it is accurate, is prima facie evidence that the money order was forged. Why? Because it's presence is supposed to indicate that the money order has been fully processed in the system and has reached its final bureaucratic resting place.

But the Magic Money Order allegedly reached the end of the line without the required bank endorsements. Why? Because Dallas Postal Inspector/FBI informant Harry Holmes, or whoever created it, could fake the evidence using 1963 Postal forms and equipment, but he couldn't fake the bank stamps and internal banking records of the processing banks.

I'll be enormously surprised if this or any of our other replies alter Lance Payette's opinion in this matter, or his name calling (“certified conspiracy loon” etc.) but I would like to ask other forum members this:

Mere facsimiles of the Magic Money Order are damaging enough to the government's case. Why make the original disappear?