Jim Hargrove

It's Achilles heel time again Jim. We all know what question is coming next. It is one you have all tried to brush under the carpet for years. How did the plotters know that these two individuals, picked from adolescence, would grow into lookalikes ?

I don't expect an answer soon. Or at all...

Is that the best you got, Bernie? REALLY????

Russian-speaking Harvey and American-born Lee didn't look all that much alike... just enough alike to fool casual observers. That sort of loose resemblance is EASY to determine, even when the subjects are 10 years old... or less. Just look at the pictures at the top of the homepage on my website: HarveyandLee.net. In the very top image, American-born Lee Oswald is shown at far left (in a photo taken by his brother Robert); Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald is shown at far right in his famous mug shot. In between is CIA BS.

Megathanks, as always, to Robert Prudhomme for his evidence pointing out that athletically built, American-born Lee Oswald was 5' 11" tall and weighed 150 lbs. We all know that Russian-speaking Harvey was a scrawny guy, at least 2 inches shorter.

Let's talk MUCH MORE, Bernie, about Oswald lookalikes.

Just to get the ball rolling, let's talk, in great detail, about Laura Kittrell! I'll go first and you can whine about it, as always ....

Here's a VERY short write-up on Ms. Kittrell and her observations of the differences between the Two Oswalds.

http://harveyandlee.net/Kittrell/Kittrell.htm

Let's keep talking, Bernie. Don't give up!!

“That is, after the anonymous calls made by Ryder to the media.” PLEASE SHOW ME YOUR EVIDENCE THAT RYDER MADE THE ANONYMOUS CALLS!!! He certainly swore otherwise during his testimony:

I just thought I too would join in the speculation and "suspicion" and then sell it off as a fact. Irritating isn't it? However I think there is more to my speculation, that is, that the originator of this tag would be the first to know of its existence. Either that or he was coerced into doing (and/or admitting to) something he knew not to be true.

What became of Ryder? Did he just carry on being a gunsmith? Did he ever talk of his bizarre experience of being embroiled in this story. Or was he one of 'them'

According to Wikipedia, Leo Sauvage interviewed Dial Ryder roughly a half century ago, and Ryder told him (emphasis added) it was “either another rifle or another Oswald.” [The Oswald Affair, Leo Sauvage, World Publishing Company, 1966, p. 67]

As to your sheer speculation that Ryder himself made the anonymous calls--which you tried to present as fact—if you know even the basics of this case you surely know there is a far more likely explanation….

The same people involved in framing “Oswald” throughout most of October and November probably sent the “Oswald” lookalike to Edith Whitworth's store and Dial Ryder's shop, AND made the anonymous calls. These are....

The same people involved in sending an Oswald lookalike to the Sports Drome Rifle Range on numerous occasions, several times creating a scene and once shooting at another guy's target;

The same folks who sent someone resembling “Oswald” and using his name (and undoubtedly an “Oswald” drivers license which supposedly didn't exist) to the Downtown Lincoln Mercury dealership where he test drove a car at wrecklessly high speeds saying he would soon come into enough money to buy a new car;

The same conspirators who sent an “Oswald” lookalike to the Southland Hotel parking garage (Allright Parking Systems) and applied for a job and asked how high the Southland Building was and if it had a good view of downtown Dallas;

The same people who sent a fellow who looked like “Oswald” hitch-hiking on the R.L. Thornton Expressway while carrying a 4 foot long package wrapped in brown paper who introduced himself to Ralph Yates as “Lee Harvey Oswald,” discussed the President's visit, and asked to be dropped across the street from the Texas School Book Depository (where Russian-speaking “Lee Harvey Oswald” was already working).

This explanation is far more likely true than your unsupported speculation that Ryder himself made the calls.

The unanswered anomaly not answered in above exchange with Jim... "From John's write-up: “That morning (11/23/63), only a couple of hours after Ryder arrived at the Sports Shop, FBI Agent Emory Horton arrived at Dial Ryder's house in Irving (circa 10:30 AM). Warren Commission attorney Liebeler asked Ryder, 'How did Horton know to come out to the sports shop?' Ryder replied, 'Actually, I don't know....'”

I still haven't had time to read up on that section as promised. It jarred with me though to be honest. I couldn't myself understand how he, or anyone else, could have been onto it so quick.

Then I read your follow up post and you provide the answer..."On November 25 (Monday) FBI Agent Emory Horton arrived at Dial Ryder's house in Irving at 10:30 am."

So Ryder being quoted as not understanding how Horton came by his name is disingenuous isn't it? By implication we are led to believe it is suspicious that the FBI could be on the ball so quick. Horton's visit came after an anonymous caller made at least two calls to the media and the FBI. I'm sure the timeline being stated as 23/11 was an honest mistake. You guys are quite lucky with these mistakes though...When I make a mistake I pay a price, but for some, mistakes just seem to strengthen their argument.

Bump for Jim...

I thought you may have at least addressed this point Jim. At first I thought it was a genuine error, it's easy to do. But you guys do it ALL the time. Then when it's raised you completely ignore it and dump another chapter no doubt also full of these 'mistakes'.

I can't be bothered to check it all out anymore when underhand tactics and blatant lies like this are the chief weapon I would be fighting against. I don't want to spend a couple of days reading through all the evidence, highlight the inevitable whacking great holes, distortions and lies (like the above), then spend a further week getting you to apologise for, retract, or at least simply acknowledge your deliberate mistakes.

Did you know when you asked how the FBI could have turned up at Ryder's the day after the assassination that in actual fact they did no such thing? It was two days after that. (As you well knew, because you used that date yourself in a further post!)). That is, after the anonymous calls made by Ryder to the media.

But your 'mistake' just happens to strengthen your "suspicions", and hopefully others too. Shameful tactics...

Bernie,

If I said the SA Horton arrived at Ryder's house on 11/23, I obviously misspoke, as can be clearly seen by the correct date given in other parts of my posts. Here is how John Armstrong's article reads about that (emphasis added):

It is worth repeating that Ryder told the WC that he did not mention the repair ticket to anyone that weekend (Nov 23/24). The next day, around 10:30 in the morning (Monday, 11/25/63), FBI Agent Emory Horton arrived at Dial Ryder's house in Irving. How and why would the FBI know to contact 25-year-old Ryder, at his home, instead of contacting Woody Greener, the owner of the shop? Warren Commission attorney Liebeler asked Ryder, "How did Horton know to come out to the sports shop?" Ryder replied, "Actually, I don't know.....I told him I had a ticket with the name Oswald, no date, no address, just for drilling and tapping and boresighting-no address, or name; he didn't say he'd like to see the ticket.....we went up to the Irving Sports Shop and I opened it up and got the ticket and showed him."

While you are hard at work trying to show how my simple mistake, corrected numerous times by me, was “disingenuous” you make the following whopper when you write:

“That is, after the anonymous calls made by Ryder to the media.” PLEASE SHOW ME YOUR EVIDENCE THAT RYDER MADE THE ANONYMOUS CALLS!!! He certainly swore otherwise during his testimony:

Mr. LIEBELER. When did you first discover this tag?

Mr. RYDER. Well, it's kind of funny, actually, how I found the tag. My workbench generally is cluttered up, you know how tools get scattered around and I was--I had been to the Evinrude Service School----

Mr. LIEBELER. Here in Dallas?

Mr. RYDER. Yeah, at the Marriott over here and we were talking about it that evening and, of course, by the time I got back from the service clinic was just about time to close and we left and that Saturday afternoon I started cleaning off the workbench and I found the ticket of which I didn't say anything to anybody else there and when Mr. Horton came out on Monday, well, then I told him we had a tag. I didn't want to keep anything back but after he showed me the picture and everything I apparently drew my conclusions of not working on that particular gun anyway.

. . . .

Mr. LIEBELER. Did you ever talk to the newspaper reporter about this?

Mr. RYDER. There were several out here after the FBI had been out, and we told them the same thing that we told the FBI.

Mr. LIEBELER. But you didn't talk to any newspaper reporter before the FBI came out here?

Mr. RYDER. No.

Mr. LIEBELER. You are quite sure about that?

Mr. RYDER. I am positive about that.

Mr. LIEBELER. It was your impression at the time the FBI came that they were making a routine check of all guns?

Mr. RYDER. That is my opinion. That is the idea I had.

Let's just review the basic here:

In early November a gun-toting, car-driving “Lee Harvey Oswald” enters Edith Whitworth's furniture/ex gun shop looking for a “plunger” for his gun, but is sent instead to the shop where Dial Ryder works.

On the day after the assassination, the same day Curry tells the world the FBI has located an order form in Hidell/Oswald's handwriting for a $12.78 rifle (the cost of a rifle from Kleins without a scope), Dial Ryder finds work ticket #18374 on his desk with “Oswald” and “drill and tap $4.50” and “bore sight $1.50” written on it. Ryder said he told no one about the ticket that weekend, but there are nevertheless at least two anonymous phone calls about it.

The FBI shows up at Ryder's house Monday morning, and then meets him at the Irving Sports Shop. Several days later, the FBI announces that the actual cost of the rifle—with scope—was now $21.45, On June 19, 1964 Gordon Shanklin (SAC Dallas FBI office) writes a memo which includes these words: “Mr. Malley said they are trying to get away from the possibility that Oswald had actually had any work done in the work shop.”

Get away indeed! Now that the Official Story was that the rifle was purchased from Kleins with a scope, the Ryder incident had to be debunked. Otherwise, it might look like someone was trying to frame “Lee Harvey Oswald.”

Of course, some people don't find this story suspicious at all… pointing to just “minor anomalies!” The real suspicions lead them to… John Armstrong and me and our “shameful tactics!"

What a tired old game they play.

"Lee Harvey Oswald" was the man who could--and couldn't--drive!

CLICK HERE for John's write-up on this contradiction.

I went further into the Ryder story by looking at his statements and then wondered why no one in this thread mentions Whitworth or Hunter? I come to find that Whitworth & Hunter were taken to see Marina and discuss if this woman was the same woman they saw...

.

Whoa, DJ... please slow down!! Let's shut down the warp drive engines and savor the deliciousness of your point for a moment.

So here's what the earthlings are up to in Irving and Dallas in the situation you describe….

Early in November 1963, Edith Whitworth is sitting in her Irving furniture store (a former gun shop with a gun sign still in front) with her friend Gertrude Hunter. A man walks in who she and Mrs. Hunter later say was “Lee Harvey Oswald” carrying an object wrapped in brown paper that appears to be part of a gun. “Oswald” is also with a woman who, as DJ points out, probably wasn't Marina. This “Oswald” says he needs a gun part, which Whitworth remembers as a “plunger.” Mrs. Whitworth tells “Oswald” that her shop no longer has a gun department, but directs him to the nearby Irving Sports Shop [where Dial Ryder just happens to be an employee.] She also noted that Oswald drove an automobile.

The story by Whitworth and Hunter was a double whammy for the Warren Commission and the FBI. Not only did it give credence to the Dial Ryder saga, which the investigators now desperately needed to bury, but it also provided yet more evidence that there was a “Lee Harvey Oswald” active in Dallas before the assassination who regularly drove a blue, two-toned 1957 or 1958 Chevy. [Classic LHO didn't have a drivers license and didn't drive.]

This description of “Oswald” driving a 2-tone blue Ford exactly matched the description barber (and Irving town council member) Cliff Shasteen gave of the car “Oswald” drove to his barber shop on a half dozen or more occasions. Here's how John Armstrong concluded his write-up on this matter in Harvey and Lee.

The problem for the FBI and Warren Commission was not only the issue of a

repair tag, but the allegation that Oswald drove to the Irving Sports shop in the middle

of the week. This was yet another indication that someone was impersonating Oswald. The

FBI, aware that Oswald could not be in two places at the same time, looked for ways to

deal with the problem. On June 19, 1964 SAC Gordon Shanklin (Dallas FBI office)

wrote a memo which stated:

"Inspector J. R. Malley noted, 'they (Whitworth and Hunter) are the only two

who have placed Oswald with going to the gun shop where the tag shows up in

Oswald's name.' Mr Malley said they are trying to get away from the possibility

that Oswald had actually had any work done in the work shop.''

--Harvey and Lee, pp. 755

Megathanks, David, for bringing this up!!!!

Since the Dial Ryder incident has taken up much of the debate here, it might be more interesting than arguing on and on with Bernie to post the actual Ryder write-up from John Armstrong's Harvey and Lee. Here 'tis, from two separate sections of the book….

Dial Duwayne Ryder

The Italian rifle found by Dallas Police was equipped with a 4-power Japanese

scope, yet the FBI announced on Saturday that Oswald had purchased a rifle from Klein's with-

out a scope. During the following week, the media continued to report that Oswald paid

$12.78 for the rifle, while a gunsmith in nearby Irving, Texas came forward and an-

nounced that he may have mounted a scope on Oswald's rifle.

On Saturday (November 23), 25-year-old gunsmith Dial Duwayne Ryder alleg-

edly found repair tag #18374 for a customer named "Oswald" on his workbench.^.73 The

undated repair tag, written in pencil, read "drill and tap $4.50" and "bore sight $1.50"

but contained no additional information. ⁷⁴

NOTE: Ryder told the Warren Commission it was not possible to date the repair tag,

because the tags were not kept or used in sequential order. Ryder said, " .... .It (the work

on the rifle) was done sometime between the 1st and 15th of November. .... Because the work

was done while the Greeners or the Woody Francis Greeners, the owners of the sport shop,

were on vacation. "⁷⁵ In other words, there were no witnesses to corroborate Ryder's story

of finding the repair tag.

On Sunday, November 24, Mr. Ray Johns of channel 8 news received an anony-

mous telephone call. The caller said that Oswald had his rifle sighted in on November

21 at a gunshop located at 111 or 212 Irving Boulevard. Johns then telephoned Detec-

tive Fay M. Turner at Dallas Police Headquarters and told him about the telephone call

he had received from the anonymous caller. This was the second call Detective Turner

received concerning the alleged assassination rifle:

1) a caller said the rifle came from Klein's Sporting Goods in Chicago

2) a caller said a man named "Oswald" had his rifle sighted at a gunshop on Irv-

ing Boulevard in Irving.

Turner checked the criss-cross directory and the phone book before he located

the Irving Sports Shop at 221 East Irving Blvd. in Irving. He contacted Woody Greener,

the owner of the shop, and asked if he would check his files and records for the name

"Oswald" and call him back if he found out anything.⁷⁶

On Monday, November 25, the Dallas Morning News published an article titled

"Mail Order Firm Tells Data on 6.5 MM Rifle." The article stated, "The FBI an-

nounced Saturday (November 23) that the 6.5 mm Italian military rifle had been pur-

chased by 'A. Hidell' for $12.78 and delivered to a Dallas post office box." ^7763-36

NOTE: The FBI allegedly learned from the microfilm that Klein's shipped a rifle to "A.

Hidell" at PO Box 2915 in Dallas. But the Klein's order form clearly showed that he

paid $21.45 for the rifle, scope, and postage-NOT $12.78. ^63-35 If the FBI had actually

found "A. Hidell's" order on the Klein's microfilm they would have made such a stupid

mistake.

That morning FBI Agent Emory Horton arrived at Dial Ryder's house in Irv-

ing at 10:30 am. Commission attorney Liebeler asked, "How did Horton know to come

out to the sports shop?" Ryder replied, "Actually, I don't know .... .I told him I had a ticket

with the name Oswald, no date, no address, just for drilling and tapping and

boresighting--no address, or name; he didn't say he'd like to see the ticket ..... we went

up to the Irving Sports Shop and I opened it up and got the ticket and showed him."⁷⁸

Liebeler asked, "Did you give the tag to Mr. Horton?" Ryder replied, "No; he told us

to hold on to it, keep it and they would probably get it later on and they did."⁷⁹

Ryder told agent Horton there was no record of selling mounts for the scope and

this indicated to him that the customer (allegedly Oswald) brought the scope and mounts

with his gun. Ryder said the only work he would have performed was the labor to drill,

tap, and bore sight the rifle.

When shown a photograph of Lee Harvey Oswald, Ryder said that he associated

Oswald's picture with that of an individual who brought in an Argentine made rifle about

two weeks ago and had a scope attached to the gun.⁸⁰ But Ryder explained that an Ar-

gentine rifle has a different bolt assembly than did the gun found on the 6th floor of the

TSBD. The FBI neither asked Ryder for the name and address of the man who brought in the

Argentine rifle, nor did they review the shop's repair tickets, nor did they make any attempt to learn

if the individual ever existed.

NOTE: The owner of the Irving Sports Shop, Mr. Charles W Greene, telephoned all of

the Oswalds listed in the Dallas and Irving telephone directories in an attempt to locate

the "Oswald" listed on repair ticket 18374, but was unsuccessful. ⁸¹

On Thursday, November 28 (Thanksgiving day), Dallas Times-Herald reporter

Hunter Schmidt Jr. received a tip that a man named "Ryder" had mounted a gunsight

for Oswald. Warren Commission attorney Liebeler asked Hunter, "Where did you get

Ryder's name in the first place; do you know? Hunter replied, "We heard of it, I think

it was around the police station somewhere. I don't remember where that exact tip came

from. We heard that a gunsight had been mounted by a man named Ryder and they

thought at first it was Garland.⁸² One of our boys covering this angle of the assassina-

tion called in from down there that a Ryder was supposed to have mounted a scope on

a rifle for a customer named Oswald, so I started checking from there, and like I said

yesterday, I thought at first it was Garland and I had to do it by a process of elimina-

tion."⁸³

Hunter said that he spoke with Dial Ryder by telephone at his home in Irving,

Texas on November 28 at approximately 7:30 am for 15 minutes. Hunter claimed that

Ryder gave him the information that subsequently appeared in the Dallas Times-Her-

ald article.

Warren Commission attorney Liebeler asked Dial Ryder, "Do you recall being

interviewed by a reporter from a Dallas newspaper?" Ryder replied, "... early that

morning (Thanksgiving day) the telephone rang--I would say roughly 7:30 or 8, some-

thing like that--and I answered the phone and a guy introduced himself and I told him

I didn't have any comment and hung up ..... and later on that day, CBS television came

out and they were wanting a blownup deal on it to put on television ..... The CBS boys

said that they got it off of the Associated Press wires or over the AP. "⁸⁴

NOTE: News reporter Hunter Schmidt insisted that he spoke with Dial Ryder at 7:30

am on Thanksgiving morning. Dial Ryder insisted that he declined to comment and hung

up the phone at 7:30am, and then took the phone off the hook for the rest of the morn-

mg.

Someone was lying, but the Warren Commission did not appear too eager to resolve the

matter. Both men agreed to take a polygraph test to settle the matter, but the Commission

never arranged for the tests.

Thanksgiving evening a front-page story appeared in Dallas Times-Herald

titled "Oswald Gun Sight Mounted in Irving." The article stated, "An Irving gunsmith

Thursday told the Times-Herald he mounted and adjusted a telescopic sight for a cus-

tomer investigators believe was Lee Harvey Oswald. Gunsmith Dial D. Ryder of 2028

Harvard in Irving said he attached the telescope and "bore-sighted" a foreign-made rifle

for a customer named Oswald about a month ago."

Warren Commission Attorney Liebeler told Dial Ryder, "The FBI has at-

tempted to find every Oswald in the whole Dallas and Fort Worth area and the surround-

ing area and it has found many of them and it has questioned all of them, some of whom

have moved out of Dallas and Fort Worth, as to whether or not they ever had any work

done in that guns hop, and you should know that none of them ever did, and you should

also know, and I think you probably do by now, that Lee Oswald could not have had any

scope mounted on the rifle that he used to assassinate the President in your shop, and

in fact, I don't think you claim you did mount that particular scope?"

Ryder said, "On this Italian rifle--I never worked on them. I seen them but as

far as doing any physical work, I haven't done none even to this date, I haven't worked

on any of them .... l am positive on that, very positive."

[Above from Harvey and Lee, pp. 458-460]

[below from Harvey and Lee, pp. 753-755]

Irving Sports Shop

The Irving Sports Shop at 221 East Irving Boulevard was owned by Charles

Woodrow Greener, a gun enthusiast, hunter, and sportsman. Twenty-five-year-old Dial

Duwayne Ryder worked for Greener for six years and by 1963 held the position of

Service Manager.

The day after the assassination (Saturday, November 23) Ryder began cleaning

off his workbench prior to closing and found repair tag #18374. The undated tag indi-

cated that Ryder did work on a rifle for a customer named "Oswald." The tag read,

"drill and tap $4.50 ..... bore sight $1.50," but contained no additional information an-

was written in pencil. ⁶⁰

The following day Mr. Ray Johns of channel 8 news received an anonymous

telephone call from a man who said that Oswald had his rifle sighted-in on Thursday,

November 21, at a gun shop at 111 or 212 Irving Boulevard. Johns relayed the informa-

tion to Detective Fay M. Turner at Dallas Police Headquarters.

NOTE: Within 48 hours of the assassination Turner received tips from two anonymous

sources about the assassination rifle: 1) it came from Klein s Sporting Goods in Chicago

and 2) a man named "Oswald" had his rifle sighted at a gun shop in on Irving Boule-

vard in Irving, Texas.

Turner checked the phone directory and located the Irving Sports Shop at 221

East Irving Blvd. He then contacted Woody Greener and asked him to check his files

and records for the name "Oswald" and call him back if he found out anything.⁶¹

On November 25 (Monday) FBI Agent Emory Horton arrived at Dial Ryder's

house in Irving at 10:30 am. Ryder told the Warren Commission that he did not tell

Horton about the repair ticket until after Horton arrived at his house. Ryder said, "Oh, I

told him I had a ticket with the name Oswald, no date, no address, just for drilling and

tapping and boresighting-no address, or name; he didn't say he'd like to see the ticket ..... "

Ryder explained, "We went up to the Irving Sports Shop and I opened it up and got the

ticket and showed him."⁶²

Ryder told SA Horton there was no record of a sale of scope mounts to the

customer. Therefore, this customer must have furnished both the scope and the mounts

while Ryder performed the labor to drill, tap, and bore sight the gun. But Ryder told

Horton he had no recollection of installing a side mounted scope (a very unusual way to

mount a scope) on the type of gun used to assassinate President Kennedy. Ryder told

the Warren Commission, "On this Italian rifle-I never worked on them. I seen them

but as far as doing any physical work, I haven't done none even to this date, I haven't

worked on any of them.... l am positive on that, very positive."

SA Horton showed Ryder a photograph of Lee Harvey Oswald, who said that

he associated Oswald's picture with that of an individual who brought in an Argentine-

made rifle about two weeks earlier. Ryder attached a scope on the rifle but said the

Argentine rifle had a different bolt assembly than the gun used to assassinate President

Kennedy. ⁶³The FBI failed to ask Ryder for the mans name and address, failed to review

repair tickets, and made no attempt to locate the man or the Argentine rifle.

Commission attorney Wesley Liebeler asked, "How did Horton know to come

out to the sports shop?" Ryder replied, "Actually, I don't know." Liebeler asked, "Did

you give the tag to Mr. Horton?" Ryder replied, "No; he told us to hold on to it, keep it

and they would probably get it later on and they did."⁶⁴

Liebeler asked Ryder if it was possible to date the repair tag. Ryder said the

repair tags were not kept or used in sequential order so the number on the tag was

useless in determining the date. Ryder explained, "Mr. Greener keeps a pretty good

watch on my work to make sure I'm getting it out on time and he will check fairly close

every day, every other day, and check to make sure I'm getting the work out, that old

work isn't laying there to be done. He's pretty sharp on remembering names and he

would have remembered that quite surely." Ryder later said, " .... .it (the work on the

rifle) was done sometime between the 1st and 15th of November ..... Because the work

was done while the Greeners or the Woody Francis Greeners, the owners of the sport

shop, were on vacation. "⁶⁵

On the morning of November 28 (Thursday--Thanksgiving Day) Dallas Times-

Herald reporter Hunter Schmidt, Jr. received a tip that a man named "Ryder" had

mounted a gunsight on a rifle for Oswald. Hunter was asked by Liebeler, "Where did

you get Ryder's name in the first place; do you know? Hunter replied, "We heard of it,

I think it was around the police station somewhere. I don't remember where that exact

tip came from. We heard that a gunsight had been mounted by a man named Ryder,

and they thought at first it was Garland.⁶⁶ One of our boys covering this angle of the

assassination called in from down there that a Ryder was supposed to have mounted a

scope on a rifle for a customer named Oswald, so I started checking from there, and

like I said yesterday, I thought at first it was Garland and I had to do it by a process of

elimination. "⁶⁷

Schmidt claimed that he telephoned Dial Ryder at his home in Irving at 7:30

am (Thanksgiving morning) and spoke with him for 15 minutes. Hunter claimed that

Ryder provided him with the information that appeared in the newspaper article on

November 28, 1963 in the Dallas Times-Herald.

NOTE: If Hunter Schmidt received a "tip" from someone at the Police Station, it had

to have been well before 7:30am. Hunter needed time to telephone and locate a "Ryder"

through the telephone directories prior to calling him.

Liebeler asked Dial Ryder, "Do you recall being interviewed by a reporter

from a Dallas newspaper?" Ryder replied, " ..... early that morning (Thanksgiving Day)

the telephone rang-I would say roughly 7:30 or 8, something like that--and I answered

the phone and a guy introduced himself and I told him I didn't have any comment and

hung up ..... and later on that day, CBS television came out and they were wanting a

blown up deal on it to put on television ..... The CBS boys said that they got it off of the

Associated Press wires or over the AP."⁶⁸

NOTE: Hunter Schmidt said that he spoke with Dial Ryder on the telephone at 7:30 am

on Thanksgiving morning. Ryder insisted that he said nothing to Schmidt and hung up

the phone at 7:30 am. Ryder said that he subsequently took the phone off the hook for the

rest of the morning.

Someone was lying, but the Warren Commission did not appear too eager to resolve the

matter. Both men agreed to take a polygraph test to settle the matter, but the Commission

never arranged for the tests. If CBS got information from the Associated Press about

Dial Ryder, then the question is where did the Associated Press get the information?

On Thursday afternoon (Thanksgiving Day) Dallas Detective Fay Turner spoke

with Woody Greener about the repair tag. Turner said, "The best they (Greener &

754 Ryder) could figure out, his-this work probably came in around November the 4th or

November the 8th of 1963."⁶⁹November 8 was a day or two after Oswald visited the Furni-

ture Mart in Irving looking for rifle parts.

On Thursday evening (Thanksgiving Day) a front-page story appeared in the

Dallas Times Herald titled, "Oswald Gun Sight Mounted in Irving." The article stated,

"An Irving gunsmith Thursday told the Times-Herald he mounted and adjusted a

telescopic sight for a customer investigators believe was Lee Harvey Oswald. Gun-

smith Dial D. Ryder of 2028 Harvard in Irving said he attached the telescope and 'bore

sighted' a foreign-made rifle for a customer named Oswald about a month ago."

On November 28 CBS News finally interviewed Dial Ryder:

Q: "You have attached a lot of scopes, telescopic sights recently. How would

you mount a scope on a gun like that?"

Ryder: "Well, actually there is really one way to mount it on there. It would be

with a side mount, and I don't recall putting a side mount on any bolt

action that I've worked on."

Q: "You were shown pictures by the FBI of the gun they found?"

Ryder: "Yes, sir."

Q: "And that was a side-mounted telescopic sight?"

Ryder: "It sure was."

Q: "And you don't remember mounting any side mounts?"

Ryder: "No, sir, I sure don't. Not on special or a bolt-action gun, I don't."⁷⁰

On December 1 Secret Service agent Elmer W. Moore telephoned Dial Ryder

at his home. Ryder told Moore the newspaper story as reported was in error and that he

was satisfied that he had not done any work for Lee Harvey Oswald. He also said that

he examined a Carcano 6.5 mm rifle the day before and was certain that he never, at

any time, did any work on such a rifle.

Ryder told agent Moore that on Friday (November 29) he was interviewed by

a woman who said she was from the W hite House Press. She told Ryder that the rifle

used by Oswald was sold by Klein's Sporting Goods of Chicago, with a scope already

mounted.⁷¹ After the media was told that the rifle ordered by Oswald from Klein's

Sporting Goods came with a 4-power scope already attached, the importance of Dial

Ryder's story faded.

NOTE: Following the assassination the owner of the Irving Sports Shop, Mr. Charles

W Greener, telephoned all of the Oswalds listed in the Dallas and Irving directories in

an attempt to locate the "Oswald" listrd on repair ticket 18374, but was unsuccessful.⁷²

Commission Attorney Liebeler told Ryder, "The FBI has attempted to find

every Oswald in the whole Dallas and Fort Worth area and the surrounding area and it

has found many of them and it has questioned all of them, some of whom have moved

out of Dallas and Fort Worth, as to whether or not they ever had any work done in that

gun shop, and you should know that none of them ever did, and you should also know,

and I think you probably do by now, that Lee Oswald could not have had any scope

mounted on the rifle that he used to assassinate the President in your shop, and in fact,

I don't think you claim you did mount that particular scope?"

Summary of the repair tag

An undated repair tag was found at the Irving Sports Shop the day after the

assassination and was published in the Warren Volumes (Greener Ex. No 1). The re-

pair tag was apparently written by Dial Ryder and shows that a scope was mounted and

a rifle bore-sighted for a customer named Oswald. There is no doubt that one or more

anonymous callers led the Dallas Police, FBI, and the press to Dial Ryder and the

Irving Sports Shop. The unanswered questions are: Was a rifle brought the rifle to the

Irving Sports Shop and if so by whom? W ho notified the Dallas Police, FBI, and the AP that

work had been done on Oswald's rifle at the Irving Sports Shop?

The problem for the FBI and Warren Commission was not only the issue of a

repair tag, but the allegation that Oswald drove to the Irving Sports shop in the middle

of the week. This was yet another indication that someone was impersonating Oswald. The

FBI, aware that Oswald could not be in two places at the same time, looked for ways to

deal with the problem. On June 19, 1964 SAC Gordon Shanklin (Dallas FBI office)

wrote a memo which stated:

"Inspector J. R. Malley noted, 'they (Whitworth and Hunter) are the only two

who have placed Oswald with going to the gun shop where the tag shows up in

Oswald's name.' Mr Malley said they are trying to get away from the possibility

that Oswald had actually had any work done in the work shop.''

--Harvey and Lee, pp. 753-755

Posted with permission of John Armstrong

For Bernie....

[My comments in red.]

"The unanswered question is who, if someone other than Dial Ryder, created the tag on Ryder's workbench and who, if someone other than Dial Ryder, notified the Dallas Police, the FBI, and the press."

But Ryder admitted that he was the one who wrote the tag. He confirmed that it was his writing. There is no "someone other" involved. We know he wrote the tag so he must have been the first person to have this information, obviously. He then admitted telling his wife before informing anyone else.

But the point is we don't know whether to believe some, none, or all of Ryder's story. My SUSPICION is that someone planning to incriminate Oswald put Ryder up to this whole thing, including working out the wording on the tag, and then made anonymous phone calls to get the whole Irving Sports Shop saga rolling. Six days after the assassination, when it was announced that the price of the rifle dramatically increased from $12.78 to $21.45, an added scope was no longer needed, and Ryder started backtracking. (The fact that Curry indicated right after the assassination that the order--in Oswald's handwriting!!--for the $12.78 rifle included a scope would hardly fool anyone familiar with Klein's actual pricing.)

"three or more anonymous callers notified police that the scope on Oswald's rifle had been mounted at the Irving Sports Shop."

I could be wrong but I believed there was just the one call, a woman, so if you could show citations for that I'd appreciate it. Also I don't think that the shop was first mentioned, it was a vague location that contained several gun shops.

From John's write-up:

“...an anonymous male caller telephonically advised the FBI that he learned from an unidentified sack boy at Wyatt's Supermarket, in Irving, TX., that Oswald had his rifle "sighted in" at the Irving Sports Shop. That same day DPD Det. Turner received a call from Mr. Ray Johns of channel 8 news. Mr. Johns told Turner that he had just received an anonymous call from a person who said that Oswald had his rifle "sighted in" on November 21 at a gunshop located at 111 or 212 Irving Boulevard.” I'll change the summary paragraph to say “two or more.” Thanks!

"Your post seem to suggest that everything has been explained about this incident, but I don't think that is the case."

See, this is where we all go round the mulberry bush again isn't it? We don't know the FULL story so any tiny doubts or miniscule anomalies can then be construed in any manner we wish to fit whatever pre-ordained conclusion we have drawn. I don't believe that the FBI (or any other sinister parties) had any prior knowledge of that tag: a tag for a gun that Oswald didn't use 'brought in' by someone who looked nothing like Oswald!

“Miniscule anomalies” such as at least two anonymous calls indicating Oswald had his rifle scope mounted at the Irving Sport Shop/the shop at 111 or 212 Irving Blvd??? Sure sounds like a setup to me. For what it's worth, Ryder said he told no one about the ticket the whole weekend.

From John's write-up: “That morning (11/23/63), only a couple of hours after Ryder arrived at the Sports Shop, FBI Agent Emory Horton arrived at Dial Ryder's house in Irving (circa 10:30 AM). Warren Commission attorney Liebeler asked Ryder, 'How did Horton know to come out to the sports shop?' Ryder replied, 'Actually, I don't know....'”

As prescient as the FBI might have been arriving at Ryder's home, isn't it remarkable that, at least according to Ryder, agents didn't bother to even collect the work ticket in question until a couple of weeks before Ryder testified at the Warren Commission?

Yet another “miniscule anomaly” is the timing of the whole affair. When publicly verifiable information from the FBI indicates the rifle cost $12.78 (the price of a rifle from Kleins without a scope) Dial Ryder is pretty sure he helped Oswald with the scope; when the publicly verifiable information from the FBI is changed to indicate the rifle cost a total of $21.45 (the total shipped price of a rifle with scope from Kleins) Ryder is pretty sure he didn't help Oswald with the scope, at least on the Italian rifle.

These are hardly miniscule anomalies.

Let's assume it WAS the assassination weapon. Well then we'd have a story; and one that would have been part of the 'known' narrative. Conversely, let's suppose it wasn't Oswald's gun but it was brought in by someone identical to him. Likewise we have a mysterious story of someone possibly impersonating him. But you have neither! Ryder has neither!

The fact that you portrayed the tag as being "found" using inverted commas, strongly implies that you think there is another more sinister explanation. But you don't say what. I've also noticed that neither you or John have mentioned Harvey or Lee in this story, but refer to him as LHO. Whilst I find this as a progressive move I can't help feeling it is merely a tactical innovation. This portion of the article, at least, alludes to (by a nod and a wink and without mentioning names) the narrative the originators have spent huge parts of their lives promoting.

I dunno. It often seems to me that people on forums like this have far more time to devote to this stuff than I do, but at any rate, there you go again, gently mocking the “Harvey and Lee” scenario and then complaining that I've gone off topic when I offer facts to back it up.

But since you again bring it up…. People interested in finding out for themselves about “Harvey and Lee” can get it straight from the source at this address:

HarveyandLee.net

And finally...

"Remember that for nearly a week after the assassination, news media widely reported that the the FBI had analysed the handwriting on the order form for a $12.78 rifle, with scope, and determined it to be "Lee Harvey Oswald's.""

But this has nothing to do with the tag we are talking about! This refers to the order made to Kleins. Why would you mention handwriting recognition on a document we are not discussing to make your point? Ryder wrote the tag. It's his writing and he admitted to it! The fact that the FBI assumed it was LHO's handwriting on another document is another story... but it does serve as a nice distraction from the main point.

But rather than a distraction, the $12.78 vs. $21.45 rifle may well have EVERYTHING to do with the Dial Ryder story, as explained above, unless, of course, you believe we're looking at only "miniscule anomalies" here.

Interesting discussion, Bernie.

The whole implication, knowing how devoted to the H&L theory John and Jim are, is that somehow somebody in the FBI had prior knowledge of the gun shop saga, and of someone purporting to be LHO. It is sold as a "mystery" as to how the FBI could have come by this information yet the chain of evidence showing this hasn't been explained in the original article. That surprises me because other parts of the article are extremely well researched. Funny that the bit that shows exactly how the FBI came to know of this gun shop tag is left dangling in mid air and sold off as a mystery.

Bernie,

It's not so much a devotion to H&L as it is a reading of the evidence, which amounts to hundreds (maybe even thousands) of little details. As just one little example from HarveyandLee.net....

LEE OSWALD: two scars from a gunshot wound

On October 27, 1957 Richard Cyr was standing about 15 yards from his barracks in Atsugi, Japan and heard a gunshot. Cyr and other marines ran into the building and found (LEE) Oswald sitting on his locker with a nickel-plated .22 derringer laying nearby on the floor. (LEE) Oswald said, "It seems as though I've shot myself." Oswald was taken to the sick bay for treatment and then taken to the U.S. Navy Hospital in nearby Yokosuku. A Navy surgeon closed the wound with stitches and allowed the .22 slug, which lay just below the surface on the back side of Oswald's upper left arm, to remain in his arm. A week later, on November 4, Dr. Greenlees made an incision on the back side of Oswald's arm, removed the .22 caliber slug, and closed the wound with stitches which were removed 10 days later. LEE Oswald had two incisions and now had two scars.

After (HARVEY) Oswald was killed by Jack Ruby on November 24, 1963, an autopsy was performed by Dr. Earl Rose of Dallas. Dr. Rose listed and described numerous small scars on Oswald's body, including "a pale, white, oblique 1/4 inch scar." But nowhere, in the lengthly and precise autopsy report, did Dr. Rose observe or report any scars on Oswald's left arm. Photographs were taken of Oswalds arms, but show no scars from a bullet wound.

After the autopsy, (HARVEY) Oswald was taken to the funeral home where he was embalmed and prepared for burial by mortician Paul Groody. Groody was subsequently interviewed by the Secret Service and asked if there were any scars on Oswald's arms and he (Groody) repeatedly said there were no scars on Oswald's upper left arm.

Can you explain why two scars from a six-year-old gunshot wound would be missed by both Rose and Groody?

Also, I read the page from the Mary Ferrell site about Ryder, but didn't see where the FBI claimed the ticket was from a different Oswald. Does that claim exist? If it does, I'll try to remember to bring it to JA's attention.

Jim I have no intention of going into teeth, gunshot wounds or tonsils... We've done that. I am responding to this particular issue you posted linking John's new article. Let's, for once, just stick to one thing at a time eh?

I never said that the "FBI claimed the ticket was from a different Oswald"...I'm simply claiming that it is no "mystery" as to how the FBI got to know of this tag written by Ryder in the first place. Your introduction to the article says it is.

It is YOU who is implying that it was possibly a different Oswald and that the FBI had prior knowledge of this event. They didn't. They were informed by an employee of WFAA-TV who passed on the anonymous tip to the DPD. No mystery at all. Why spoil a really good article by falsely implying a mystery when basic research shows there to be none. Because 'mystery' is the oil that keeps the whole H&L on the road. Without it there is no H&L.

Ah... Bernie... you introduced the two Oswalds by saying above that John and I are "devoted to the "H&L theory." I was just pointing out why. Why bring it up if you don't care to discuss it?

Back on topic, I have never implied that the ticket was placed in Ryder's shop by an Oswald or anyone else. I have no idea how it got there. Here's what John Armstrong wrote about it:

There is little doubt that Dial Ryder had an undated repair tag on November 23. There is no doubt the repair tag was intended to show the Irving Sports Shop mounted a scope on Oswald's $12.78 rifle. There is no question that one or more anonymous callers led the Dallas Police, FBI, and the press to the Irving Sports Shop. The unanswered ques­tion is who, if someone other than Dial Ryder, created the tag on Ryder's workbench and who, if someone other than Dial Ryder, notified the Dallas Police, the FBI, and the press.

SUMMATION: The same day the FBI announced that Oswald purchased a mail-order rifle for $12.78 (without a scope), Ryder "found" an undated repair tag and three or more anonymous callers notified police that the scope on Oswald's rifle had been mounted at the Irving Sports Shop. Ryder told FBI Agent Horton and news reporters that he may have mounted the scope on Oswald's rifle. Six days later (11/29/63), after the FBI announced that Oswald purchased a rifle with a scope already mounted for $19.95, Ryder told the FBI and the Secret Service that he was sure that he had NOT mounted the scope. Whatever the truth surrounding the repair ticket, Ryder's admis­sion places him at the center of the controversy surrounding a $12.78 rifle, without a scope, allegedly purchased from Klein's.

The whole implication, knowing how devoted to the H&L theory John and Jim are, is that somehow somebody in the FBI had prior knowledge of the gun shop saga, and of someone purporting to be LHO. It is sold as a "mystery" as to how the FBI could have come by this information yet the chain of evidence showing this hasn't been explained in the original article. That surprises me because other parts of the article are extremely well researched. Funny that the bit that shows exactly how the FBI came to know of this gun shop tag is left dangling in mid air and sold off as a mystery.

Bernie,

It's not so much a devotion to H&L as it is a reading of the evidence, which amounts to hundreds (maybe even thousands) of little details. As just one little example from HarveyandLee.net....

LEE OSWALD: two scars from a gunshot wound

On October 27, 1957 Richard Cyr was standing about 15 yards from his barracks in Atsugi, Japan and heard a gunshot. Cyr and other marines ran into the building and found (LEE) Oswald sitting on his locker with a nickel-plated .22 derringer laying nearby on the floor. (LEE) Oswald said, "It seems as though I've shot myself." Oswald was taken to the sick bay for treatment and then taken to the U.S. Navy Hospital in nearby Yokosuku. A Navy surgeon closed the wound with stitches and allowed the .22 slug, which lay just below the surface on the back side of Oswald's upper left arm, to remain in his arm. A week later, on November 4, Dr. Greenlees made an incision on the back side of Oswald's arm, removed the .22 caliber slug, and closed the wound with stitches which were removed 10 days later. LEE Oswald had two incisions and now had two scars.

After (HARVEY) Oswald was killed by Jack Ruby on November 24, 1963, an autopsy was performed by Dr. Earl Rose of Dallas. Dr. Rose listed and described numerous small scars on Oswald's body, including "a pale, white, oblique 1/4 inch scar." But nowhere, in the lengthly and precise autopsy report, did Dr. Rose observe or report any scars on Oswald's left arm. Photographs were taken of Oswalds arms, but show no scars from a bullet wound.

After the autopsy, (HARVEY) Oswald was taken to the funeral home where he was embalmed and prepared for burial by mortician Paul Groody. Groody was subsequently interviewed by the Secret Service and asked if there were any scars on Oswald's arms and he (Groody) repeatedly said there were no scars on Oswald's upper left arm.

Can you explain why two scars from a six-year-old gunshot wound would be missed by both Rose and Groody?

A key question is, why did the FBI fabricate so many documents, as John Armstrong alleges?

I believe Armstrong's allegations are correct.

I don't believe any FBI employee had a hand in killing JFK. The cover-up is another matter. So why did FBI agents fabricate those documents? I believe Hoover didn't want any official conclusion other than that LHO killed JFK acting alone. No one in any position of power in the U.S. government wanted any other conclusion. I believe the plotters anticipated this unfolding of events; which tells me the plotters had an unerring take on D.C. power politics.

That narrows the field for me.

Hoover MAY not have had foreknowledge of the assassination, but he sure as hell had known for years about what CIA accountant James Wilcott called "the Oswald Project." It speaks volumes that Hoover had FBI agents confiscating "Lee Harvey Oswald's" elementary school records and teen-aged employment records within hours of the assassination of JFK, yet took no verifiable steps to determine whether others were involved in the hit or whether other government officials were targets. Compare this behavior to what happened after Lincoln's assassination.

As to the number of documents created and backdated by the FBI... this is really interesting. My guess is that this sort of thing is standard operating procedure for all sorts law enforcement agencies, here and abroad. If true, this is the sort of information that has to be quashed by the State at any cost whatsoever.

On the one hand, the fake rifle purchase seems to have been a part of the cover up... not engineered by the assassination plotters. Because it seemingly wasn't planned beforehand. On the other hand, it was initiated so quickly that it's hard to believe it could have been a part of the cover-up.

Does anybody have a plausible explanation for this?

Watch the FBI lie....

Also....

CLICK HERE!

It's interesting to note the clumsiness of some of the players in the first couple of days of the coverup. How some must have winced when they saw this newspaper article, and realized some clod had given the wrong price out.

There were some who were also too eager to give out misinformation that would lead us away from the truths of the assassination. Commander James Humes was one such individual, a bit player thrust into the spotlight. I'm going to begin a thread very soon where I will show how, in his zeal to conceal medical evidence, he made a serious error when writing the autopsy report for JFK.

Or, considering how many alterations were made by the FBI and Warren Commission staff, perhaps it was not Humes who wrote the error into the autopsy report.

Thank you again, Bob, for all those wonderful ballistics reports! Geez, they were WELL DONE!

How wonderful it is that we've OUTLIVED those A-Holes! Their lies are ALL coming undone.... eh?

It's probably always a mistake to believe a government--or any institution--can honestly investigate itself. A lot of documents were declassified while the ARRB existed, probably helped as much by the end of the Cold War as the Board itself, which was their Congressional mandate. Despite that, they sure didn't seem to want to explore more fully the points that Tanenbaum made.

I'd love to hear what other forum members think about the pages from Portrait of the Assassin and Tanenbaum's testimony, or, for that matter, FBI malfeasance in general, but most here seem more interested in personal matters and other things.

Don't know if it's common knowledge, Sandy. I'm doing my best to make it so (see the last line below in my post--though apparently only registered Education Forum members can see it).

IMO, the Assassination Records Review Board did everything in its power to diminish Mr. Tanenbaum's testimony, starting with misspelling his name in the title of the amateurish transcript of his testimony. According to that transcript, the first words out of Mr. Tanenbaum's mouth were:

Good morning. You look at me in stunned silence. I'm here at the request of you to answer questions.

And so it goes....

Thanks for scanning and posting that, Jim.

When I was first made aware of this, I wondered why it isn't something that is more discussed and quoted by researchers. Then I realized that, given the source, it is likely considered to be suspicious. Maybe CTers consider it an attempt to throw them off the trail of the truth.

It could be that this possible FBI connection was used to throw researchers off the more-damaging CIA path.

Sure sounds possible to me. Ford mentioned Oswald and the CIA on page one of chapter one in Portrait of the Assassin, but he simply paraphrased Marguerite Oswald's statements that “her son must have been tied in with the CIA or the State Department.” (Marguerite's real role, John Armstrong suspects, was that of a flycatcher—someone to attract to U.S. intelligence people with inside knowledge of the Oswald Project so they could be identified and … dealt with.)

President Ford said that information from the WC secret meeting indicated Oswald began receiving $200/month from the FBI in September, 1962. Remember, though, that HSCA counsel Robert Tannenbaum in 1996 told the ARRB that he had read a transcript of the secret Warren Commission meeting with top Texas officials, and that they were the “unimpeachable sources” that “Lee Harvey Oswald was a contract employee of the CIA and the FBI.”.

September 1962 may have been the time LHO started receiving payment from the FBI, but my guess is that the starting date was more like the summer of 1963. That's when LHO was hanging out in New Orleans with all sorts of rabid anti-communists pretending to be a Castro-loving leftist. That's when he was arrested in a fake fight handing out FPCC literature, and that's when someone like the CIA's Clay Shaw might have handed our boy off to someone like the FBI's Guy Bannister (former FBI SAIC Chicago who was in frequent contact for Hoover).

If something like this actually occurred, it may be one of the earliest activities in the actual plot to assassinate JFK. It may have been a deliberate effort by some Agency personnel or operatives to move the patsy-to-be from a low-level intelligence asset to a low-level FBI informer, which would soon force Hoover into every stage of denial imaginable and all at once. If so, it worked like a charm!

While reporting to FBI from 1960 until early 1965 I always admired Director J.E. Hoover,

not until I abruptly quit did they roll out my life as it had sometimes been before laboring for FBI began, while

skillfully but not completely, denying my labor for that agency hit via NARA. At least two importantly urgent, even

dangerous outright lies came under my gaze in late 1990s.

1, Bureau report said that I was in contact with Major William Morgan a leading officer in Castro's

Revolutionary army and soon after I returned from Cuba Morgan was executed by Castro firing squad.

That FBI report from those dangerous days, found by me years later made me a sitting target.

That FBI report was a lie!

2, In 1960 the FBI requested that I stay in position as an officer of a newly formed Chicago chapter of the

Fair Play For Cuba Committee, Castro's Network in the U.S.. Another FBI report states that "Dean

stated he stayed in this position voluntarily. This FBI report was a lie!

H.J. Dean

That's really interesting, Harry. Were all or most of the other officers and/or members of the FPCC Chicago chapter also agents of the U.S. government? Sure seems like it was that way in New Orleans. Someone once joked that author Norman Mailer was the only genuine member of FPCC. Does you experience with the Bureau or the Chicago FPCC shed any light on the New Orleans angle with Oswald.

Don't know if you have been following more recent news about the FBI, but ....

"Pseudoscience in the Witness Box: The FBI faked an entire field of forensic science," is the headline from the April 22, 2015 online edition of Slate Magazine.

The same Slate article quoted a Washington Post story of a few days earlier, which stated: “The Justice Department and FBI have formally acknowledged that nearly every examiner in an elite FBI forensic unit gave flawed testimony in almost all trials in which they offered evidence against criminal defendants over more than a two-decade period before 2000.”

Things look pretty bad for the FBI recently, but how about in earlier days? Surely they were better then, right?

Of course not.... Remember the Frederick Whitehurst scandal from the 1990s? Whitehurst was one of the Bureau's top scientists, and he complained for more than a decade toward the end of the last century about the FBI's vaunted crime lab faking evidence and slanting it toward the prosecution. According to the Feb. 27, 1998 edition of CNN:

--------------------------------------

For 10 years Whitehurst complained mostly in vain about lab practices. But his efforts finally led last April to a scathing 500-page study of the lab by Justice Department Inspector General Michael Bromwich.

Bromwich blasted the famed lab for flawed scientific work and inaccurate, pro-prosecution testimony in major cases, including the Oklahoma City and World Trade Center bombings.

Bromwich recommended major reforms, discipline for five agents that is still under consideration and transfer of Whitehurst to other duties.

------------------------------------

Whitehurst, of course, was pilloried endlessly by defenders of the FBI, eventually resulting in the award of more than a million dollars to Whitehurst as compensation, and a new federal law protecting whistleblowers!

So... for a quarter century and probably more, the FBI has clearly been cooking the evidence to favor the prosecution. But that didn't happen back in the good ole' days, right? Not when J. Edgar was in charge.

William Sullivan (a top-ranking FBI official) said, "Hoover did not like to see the Warren Commission come into existence. He showed a marked interest in limiting the scope of it and taking any action which might result in neutralizing it."* He added, "If there were documents that possibly he (Hoover) didn't want to come to the light of the public, then those docu­ments no longer exist, and the truth will never be known."**

NOTES:

* Interview of William Sullivan by Robert Fink, November, 1975; Memo from James P. Kelly to G. Robert Blakey, 11/18/77; HSCA 108-10112-10133, Numbered Files 003406

** Ibid.

In his otherwise uninspiring book called Portrait of the Assassin, former U.S. President and Warren Commission member Gerald R. Ford wrote that the first emergency meeting of the Warren Commission was convened to discuss information that Lee Harvey Oswald was a paid informant of the FBI up until the day he was arrested at the Texas Theater. Ford indicated that the information came from Texas Attorney General Waggoner Carr, District Attorney Henry Wade, and counsel to the Attornyy General Leon Jaworsky. In Portrait of the Assassin, p. 14, President Ford described the information as follows (President Ford never attempted to deny it):

The Texas officials slipped into the nation's capital with complete anonymity. The met with Lee Rankin and other member of the staff and told what they knew. The information was that Lee Harvey Oswald was actually hired by the FBI; that he was assigned the undercover-agent number 179; that he was on the FBI payroll at two hundred dollars a month starting in September 1962 and that he was still on their payroll the day he was apprehended in the Texas Theatre after having gunned down Officer J.D. Tippit! The officials returned to Dallas after their visit on Friday, January 24. Their presence in Washington was unknown to the press or the public.

It should be noted, again, that Pres. Ford, never denied the claim, although the Warren Commission accepted J. Edgar Hoover's emphatic denial. Hoover's denial is HERE!

Jim,

I know that rumors about Oswald being an FBI informant were going around, And that a meeting about it took place among WC officials. But the quote above seems a bit pat to have been written by a WC member, especially so soon after the WR was published.

Have you actually seen for yourself the quote in Ford's book? I did some searching and all I could find was that it was used in a Novel (and so it could be fiction) and a CTer posted it saying that Mark Lane had written it.

I'd appreciate it if you would confirm this.

Thanks for asking, Sandy. Yes, I do own a copy of Ford's Portrait of the Assassin. The first interior page has a handwritten note in blue ink: "Warmest personal regards, Gerald R. Ford."

The quote from above is taken directly from the second page of Chapter 1. I've scanned the first two pages of the chapter and provided links to the images below ("PAGE 2" has the actual quote):

PAGE 1

PAGE 2

Most fascinating about this is that I tried to check very carefully throughout the book, and saw no place where Ford actually attempted to debunk the story, though of course J. Edgar denied it furiously, as you would expect.

What's really entertaining about all those news reports is that we've got the Dallas Police Chief saying on Saturday that the FBI had analyzed the handwriting and determined it was "Lee Harvey Oswald's" on an order for a "bolt-action rifle with a telescopic sight from a Chicago mail order house for $12.78."

Apparently, with all that careful handwriting analysis, the FBI didn't notice that the rifle actually cost $19.95, plus $1.50 S&H. Looks like the FBI fired first and then made up the documents later. They could change any report they cared to change... but they just couldn't make those news stories in hundreds of U.S. dailies go away.

HERE, again, is a link to one of the news reports.

Hi Jim

What bothers me more than anything is how much of the FBI evidence is altered, and we know nothing about the alterations. Will we ever know the real truth, or was it buried forever by Rankin and Hoover?

YO, Bob,

Thank so much for your ballistics evidence!

Maybe we know the truth RIGHT NOW!

A significant part of that truth is from YOU!,,,, and we know who HATES US, EH????

Let's end this right now.....

N O W ! !

I'm waiting....

According to the Warren Commission, the FBI analyzed the handwriting on the order from for the rifle that allegedly killed JFK and said it matched the handwriting of “Lee Harvey Oswald.” Here is an example of the HUNDREDS of newspaper reports from November 25, 1963 about that very subject.

PLEASE CLICK HERE!

Would any astute observer here kindly point out the problem? (HINT: LOOK TOWARD THE BOTTOM OF THE LEFT COLUMN!!!)

JIm