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Posts posted by Jim Hargrove
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Why doesn't the Social Security Administration count any of Oswald's employment income prior to the time he joined the U.S. Marine Corps?
According to SSA and IRS records, Oswald's income in 1962 and 1963 was as follows:
Employer: William B. Reily & Co., Earnings: 422.25 and 191.25
Employer: Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall, Inc., Earnings: 727.80 and 945.69 and 121.67
Employer: Leslie Welding, Earnings: 636.50
Employer: Texas Book Depository, Earnings: 261.68
Add them all up, and you get and Grand Total of $3306.85
So, less than a month after receiving a completed "Application for Survivors Insurance Benefits" form filled out by Marina, the SSA office in Dallas had completed a "Determination of Award" form.
According to the Social Security Administration's “Determination of Award” form, the lifetime earnings of "Lee Harvey Oswald" amounted to $3306.85, exactly the amount of his 1962 and 1963 income. But what about Oswald's earlier income from Dolly Shoe, Tujague's, J.R. Michaels, and Pfisterer Dental Lab? Why isn't it included by the SSA? There are supposedly legitimate W-2 forms showing Social Security information for those employers as well. (You can see ALL the documents referred to here at: http://harveyandlee.net/Unraveling/Unravels.htm)
On May 15, 1978, the House Select Committee on Assassinations chief counsel Robert Blakey wrote to the Social Security Administration requesting "access to all files and documents concerning or referring to Lee Harvey Oswald and Marina Oswald." On July 28, Social Security Administration associate commissioner Robert P. Bynum formally responded. In a three-page cover letter to Ms. Jackie Hess, an HSCA employee, Bynum cited 36 different documents that were being forwarded from the Social Security Administration to the HSCA.
Item 23 in the letter from the Social Security Administration to the HSCA states: "Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report re employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps."
Why didn't the Social Security Administration include any of Oswald's income from his first four employers in his lifetime earnings report? And why on earth was the Warren Report offered as an explanation?
The pre-Marine income reports of "Lee Harvey Oswald" are fraudulent. Why?
More about this topic, including all the documents referenced above, can be found HERE.
Hey... this grade school stuff is important to me too, but I'm STILL waiting for someone... ANYONE... to explain why the Social Security Administration failed to count ANY of "Lee Harvey Oswald's" teenage employment income in his lifetime earnings report. After all, the FBI told us there were perfectly good W-2 forms from Dolly Shoe, Tujague's, J.R. Michaels, and Pfisterer Dental Lab for those LHO formative years. And then they showed us fine copies of the W-2 forms, which certainly would have been forwarded to the Social Security Administration regardless of anyone's opinion of Lee HARVEY Oswald and his teenage angst.
So why didn't the SSA include that income in "Oswald's" final earnings report? And why were "Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report re employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps." offered by SSA as an explanation?
Is there a cover-up going all the way back to "Oswald's" teenage years?
Of course there is.
Read the proof here:
http://harveyandlee.net/Unraveling/Unravels.htm
And please don't worry... if no one can explain this, I'll keep asking!
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The bottom line remains: the document was altered to match the FBI report. It's possible that the FBI simply misread the copy I found, and when that document was selected to go into the 26 volumes, someone (probably quite innocently) made the figures match more clearly, the figures as given in the report.
But here is why it can't be right.
From John Pic's testimony:
Mr. JENNER - What was your nickname?
Mr. PIC - Pic.
Mr. JENNER - What was your brother Robert's nickname?
Mr. PIC - In Chamberlain-Hunt we referred to him as "Mouse". I think that hung on a while after that.
Mr. JENNER - What nickname did he have before that?
Mr. PIC - None that I recall.
Mr. JENNER - Why did he get that? Was he a quiet boy?
Mr. PIC - He was the littlest one in Chamberlain-Hunt and that was why they called him that.
Mr. JENNER - I see, size.
Mr. PIC - Yes, sir.
From volume 2 of my book:
Today, the average 13 year old male is 61.5 inches tall. It is known that the average height has increased gradually for the past 150 years by a total of 4 inches. It is therefore reasonable to assume that the average 13 year old boy in the early 1950s was no more than 61 inches. Yet we are now expected to believe that Oswald was about 3 inches taller than the average boy of his age. Clearly the totality of the evidence makes a nonsense of that.
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It is possible, but very unlikely, that the same gene pool produced a mouse and a giraffe. His later increase in height is explicable through normal teenage growth spurts, which can be up to 4" per year.
So, your proof that LEE Harvey Oswald couldn't possibly be 64" tall (5'4" tall) at Public School 44 is that his brother Robert was short at Chamberlain-Hunt??? Really?
Siblings may share the same parents, but they don't have identical genes or growth environments. Even identical twins can have different heights.
In his 6th Grade classroom photo at Ridglea West Elementary School in Fort Worth, American-born LEE Harvey Oswald stands in the very back row, obviously taller than the other kids. Classmate Richard Garrett told the FBI that this Oswald was the "tallest, most dominant" boy in his class.
But all may not be lost... if you're putting up John Pic as an expert in the Oswald family, will you please explain why he failed to recognize photos of Lee HARVEY Oswald at the Bronx Zoo and handing out FPCC literature in New Orleans?
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I went back to Armstrong Baylor Records SEP 1952 thru Jan 1954 Box 7 Notebook 5 tab 6 PDF file (AKA PS 44 notebook).
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http://contentdm.baylor.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/po-arm/id/18326/rec/ click on download button on the right. PDF file pages 1 to 79
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- Page 27 of said PDF file has FBI REPORT WRITTEN OUT .. >> "SIXTY FOUR INCHES, ONE HUNDRED FIFTEEN POUNDS" With obvious highlighting by Armstrong. You are not saying alteration on this FBI report. Armstrong highlighted throughout his notebooks.
- On page 64 PDF file is the Health Card has for " 7/7 box 64 H " and " 8/8 box 64" . (twice this is not a typo. gaal)
- Just go to page 77 of this PDF file and see major highlighting. Gigantic bracket with question mark. There is no alteration ,but a researcher (Armstrong) highlighting obvious signs of TWO Oswalds in tens of thousands of documents. Highlighting was a type of organization method Armstrong used to keep all the conflicting data more accessible for later lectures and his tome Harvey and Lee. NO FRAUD ,sorry. , gaal
see link >>>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/25792994@N04/5424377128
I haven't been paying much attention to the H&L Hit Squad lately, but if I'm reading the above right, they're getting funnier by the day.Presented with page 8 of an FBI report reproduced at the National Archives about Oswald at PS #44 which states, in part:OSWALD'S HEALTH CARD INDICATED THAT HE WAS SIXTY FOURINCHES, ONE HUNDRED FIFTEEN POUNDS, NORMAL VISIONthe Hit Squad now wants us to believe that Mr. Armstrong altered the public school record so that it would match the "faulty" FBI reading of it!Good Golly, Miss Molly, that's damned funny! If you doubt how low the Hit Squad is sinking, just follow Mr. Gaal's instructions above and look at page 27 of the downloaded PDF file, which reproduces page 8 of the FBI report in question.Steven and David Josephs should get medals for taking the time to try and reason with these guys. No doubt the Hit Squad will see the truth Real Soon Now. -
Why doesn't the Social Security Administration count any of Oswald's employment income prior to the time he joined the U.S. Marine Corps?
According to SSA and IRS records, Oswald's income in 1962 and 1963 was as follows:
Employer: William B. Reily & Co., Earnings: 422.25 and 191.25
Employer: Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall, Inc., Earnings: 727.80 and 945.69 and 121.67
Employer: Leslie Welding, Earnings: 636.50
Employer: Texas Book Depository, Earnings: 261.68
Add them all up, and you get and Grand Total of $3306.85
So, less than a month after receiving a completed "Application for Survivors Insurance Benefits" form filled out by Marina, the SSA office in Dallas had completed a "Determination of Award" form.
According to the Social Security Administration's “Determination of Award” form, the lifetime earnings of "Lee Harvey Oswald" amounted to $3306.85, exactly the amount of his 1962 and 1963 income. But what about Oswald's earlier income from Dolly Shoe, Tujague's, J.R. Michaels, and Pfisterer Dental Lab? Why isn't it included by the SSA? There are supposedly legitimate W-2 forms showing Social Security information for those employers as well. (You can see ALL the documents referred to here at: http://harveyandlee.net/Unraveling/Unravels.htm)
On May 15, 1978, the House Select Committee on Assassinations chief counsel Robert Blakey wrote to the Social Security Administration requesting "access to all files and documents concerning or referring to Lee Harvey Oswald and Marina Oswald." On July 28, Social Security Administration associate commissioner Robert P. Bynum formally responded. In a three-page cover letter to Ms. Jackie Hess, an HSCA employee, Bynum cited 36 different documents that were being forwarded from the Social Security Administration to the HSCA.
Item 23 in the letter from the Social Security Administration to the HSCA states: "Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report re employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps."
Why didn't the Social Security Administration include any of Oswald's income from his first four employers in his lifetime earnings report? And why on earth was the Warren Report offered as an explanation?
The pre-Marine income reports of "Lee Harvey Oswald" are fraudulent. Why?
More about this topic, including all the documents referenced above, can be found HERE.
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For Glenn Nall....
I can't stop at one or two examples, but here are ten of my favorite "smoking guns" demonstrating the truth of the Harvey and Lee thesis. Feel free to chose one or two and dig in, but the only way to really see the depth of this evidence is to read all thousand plus pages of Harvey and Lee.
10. The IMPOSSIBLE 1953 school scenario: Harvey at Youth House for truancy followed by Beauregard JHS in New Orleans while Lee has good attendance both semesters at PS 44 in NYC.9. John Pic's inability to recognize clear photographs of his own brother.8. The refusal of the Social Security Administration to corroborate the official story of "Oswald's" pre-1962 income, offering instead "Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report regarding employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps."7. The Marine Corps records are a gold mine: my favorite chronicles Harvey Oswald's trip to Formosa (Taiwan) while Lee was being treated for VD in Japan.6. The Bolton Ford incident while Harvey was in Russia.5. Marita Lorenz's secret testimony describing Lee Oswald with anti-Castro operatives in Miami and the Everglades while Harvey was in Russia.4. Lee Oswald visiting the Texas Employment Commission, filling out forms and taking tests, while Harvey was in Russia.3. The impossible answer(s) to the simple questions: Could Lee Harvey Oswald drive a car? Did he have a drivers license?2. The well documented appearance of Lee Oswald in the balcony of the Texas Theater soon after the murder of J.D. Tippit with the simultaneous arrest of Harvey Oswald on the main floor of the same theater.1. The behavior of the FBI in the first 48 hours of the "investigation," during which the Bureau confiscated many of "Lee Harvey Oswald's" school records and employment histories. Six months later, the Bureau decided to test for fingerprints on boxes in the so-called "sniper's nest."One more thing about this list. If I were to pick just one topic that few people understand but simply cannot even be argued against with any honesty, I'd pick # 8 above, which is, "The refusal of the Social Security Administration to corroborate the official story of 'Oswald's' pre-1962 income, offering instead 'Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report regarding employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps'." For MUCH more information on this topic, see:
http://harveyandlee.net/Unraveling/Unravels.htm
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For Glenn Nall....
I can't stop at one or two examples, but here are ten of my favorite "smoking guns" demonstrating the truth of the Harvey and Lee thesis. Feel free to chose one or two and dig in, but the only way to really see the depth of this evidence is to read all thousand plus pages of Harvey and Lee.
10. The IMPOSSIBLE 1953 school scenario: Harvey at Youth House for truancy followed by Beauregard JHS in New Orleans while Lee has good attendance both semesters at PS 44 in NYC.9. John Pic's inability to recognize clear photographs of his own brother.8. The refusal of the Social Security Administration to corroborate the official story of "Oswald's" pre-1962 income, offering instead "Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report regarding employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps."7. The Marine Corps records are a gold mine: my favorite chronicles Harvey Oswald's trip to Formosa (Taiwan) while Lee was being treated for VD in Japan.6. The Bolton Ford incident while Harvey was in Russia.5. Marita Lorenz's secret testimony describing Lee Oswald with anti-Castro operatives in Miami and the Everglades while Harvey was in Russia.4. Lee Oswald visiting the Texas Employment Commission, filling out forms and taking tests, while Harvey was in Russia.3. The impossible answer(s) to the simple questions: Could Lee Harvey Oswald drive a car? Did he have a drivers license?2. The well documented appearance of Lee Oswald in the balcony of the Texas Theater soon after the murder of J.D. Tippit with the simultaneous arrest of Harvey Oswald on the main floor of the same theater.1. The behavior of the FBI in the first 48 hours of the "investigation," during which the Bureau confiscated many of "Lee Harvey Oswald's" school records and employment histories. Six months later, the Bureau decided to test for fingerprints on boxes in the so-called "sniper's nest." -
Lee HARVEY Oswald's English GrammarFor some reason, the typed version included in the Warren Volumes of Harvey Oswald's "The Collective--Life of a Russian Worker" had numerous spelling and grammatical corrections, making it unhelpful in trying to determine whether it was written by a Russian-speaking person who learned English as a second language. But another example of writing allegedly in Oswald's own handwriting was retyped in the Warren Volumes without grammatical and spelling corrections. It is included in Commission Exhibit 102, part of Vol. 16.In July 1963 Eugene Murret was attending the Jesuit House of Studies at Spring Hill College in Mobile, Alabama. Murret asked Oswald to visit the college and give a talk about his experiences of the Soviet Union. Oswald’s handwritten notes for the speech are reproduced in CE 102, followed by a typewritten transcript WITHOUT GRAMMATICAL CORRECTIONS.Several of these pages can be seen here:
===========QUOTE ON FROM WCE 102=================1. Americans are apt to scoff at the idea, that a military coup in the US., as so oftenhappens in Latin american countries, could ever replace our government but thatis an idea that has grounds for consideration. Which military organization hasthe potenitialities of executing such action? Is it the army? with its many constripes,its unwieldy size its scores of bases scattered across the world? The case of Gen.Walker shows that the army, at least, is not fertail enough ground for a far rightregime to go a very long way. for the same reasons of size and desposition theNavy and air force is also to be more or less disregarded. Which service than, canqwalify to launch a coup in the USA? Small size, a permanent hard core of officersand few baseis is necscary. Only one outfit fits that description and the U. S. M. C.is a right wing infiltrated organization of dire potential consequence's to the free-doms of the U.S. I agree with former President Truman when he said that "TheMarine Corps should be abolished."2. My second reason is that undemocratic, country wide insitution know as segre-gation. It, is, I think the action of the active segregationist minority and the greatbody of indiffent people in the South who do the United States more harm in theeyes of the worlds people, than the whole world communist movement, as I lookat this audience there is a sea of white facts before me where are the negro'samongst you (are they hiding under the table) surly if we are for democracy, letour fellow negro citizen's into this hall. Make no mistake, segregationisttendencies can be unleared I was born in New Orleans, and I know.In russia I saw on several occiasions that in international meeting the greatestglory in the sport field was brought to us by negros. Though they take the goldmetals from their Russian competitors those negros know that when they return totheir own homeland they will have to face blind hatred and discrimonation. -
It strange to me soooooooooo many Anti H & L people atheist and agnostics. ,gaal
Not really, it's just that we don't believe in fairy tales.
So we have the main protagonist of the H&L nonsense now being promoted by someone who believes the earth is only 6,000 years old!!!
Not for the first time, John Armstrong will be pulling his hair out when he reads your last few posts. He deserves better than this. All that work. All that money. Trashed.
Yes Steven, you see his work as evangelical, a complex tome of hidden mysteries, unseen hands, walls and mirrors, and secret cosmic codes that only the very wise can interpret. Add a huge dollop of unrestricted messianic faith and a willingness to be told what to think and we have a mind set almost identical to fanatical religious fundamentalism.
Keep digging...
Bernie,
John Armstrong doesn't pay any attention to "internet chat rooms," as he always calls forums like this, but during a number of our phone conversations I've read him some of Steven Gaal's posts, including info from Gaal's links, and John has been VERY interested. If you make ANY EFFORT AT ALL to listen, Mr. Gaal has some fascinating things to say. I must say that few people here want to hear it, though.
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Jim Hargrove,
Thanks.
Two matters: [1] Marina's husband had a great spoken, and apparently from what you cite, written command of English, which is contra to what the Yale professor opined. [2] The Walker letter, as I've written elsewhere here, is filled with errors of the sort no native Russian language speaker would make; errors of usage, character formation, grammar, and spelling. This according to my daughter, who is a Russian language and literature scholar, who has taught Russian language at an Ivy League university, and who at my request examined the so-called Walker letter.
Jon,
Oswald's real "LIFE IN RUSSIA" report, in "Harvey" Oswald's actual handwriting, is filled with the minor grammatical errors you would expect from a foreigner writing in English as a second or third language. It is readily available on the net, though in several minutes of searching I didn't find it. I'll send along a link when I do locate it. Please note the intelligence behind the minor grammatical errors.
My opinion of the so-called Walker letter no doubt confirms what you and your daughter long ago concluded: it's bullxxxx.
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Jim Hargrove,
I subscribe to the two Oswalds proposition, but I struggle to grasp the notion that Harvey assumed Lee's identity.
Lee had no reason to speak or write the Russian language. Maybe Harvey did. So why confuse the two?
Another question: What do you think happened to the real Marguerite Oswald? She seems to have disappeared.
Hi Jon,The deliberate effort to "confuse" the two kids, as you put it, was really a long-term American intelligence operation designed to give a Russian-speaking youth an American identity and birth certificate so that he could eventually "defect" to Soviet Russia, where his secret fluency in Russian could be put to good advantage. This is exactly what happened.Although Russian-speaking Harvey didn't exactly fool suspicious Russian authorities (for example, doctors in a Moscow hospital noted that he seemed to understand questions in Russian moments before he claimed he didn't), he apparently made real efforts to do his job well. His very long and beautifully written report on the life of Russian workers has been hiding in plain sight for more than half a century as Warren Commission Exhibit 92 (Vol 16; pp 287-336). The typed version, for some reason, includes grammatical corrections.The typed version of the document is shown here:An easier to read version is here:John A. believes that Harvey Oswald may well have been a World War II orphan from one of those Eastern Bloc European nations where the Russian language was taught to kids from an early age, possibly, according to at least one report, Hungary. In 1953 in New York City, Dr. Renatus Hartogs described (Harvey) Oswald as "thin, malnourished, and reminiscent of children he had seen in concentration camps in Europe after the war." After the assassination, Yale Professor Vladimir Petrov of the Slavic Language Department offered his opinion that the author of a letter written by (Harvey) Oswald to Senator John Tower was written by a "native speaking Russian with an imperfect knowledge of the English language."As for your other question about the real Marguerite Oswald, I can only speculate that several years before the assassination U.S. Intelligence helped her change her name and relocate, something similar, perhaps, to a witness protection program. Armstrong wrote the following paragraph on my website about the real Marguerite:It is worth noting that the FBI failed to interview a single co-worker or employer of LEE Oswald's tall-nice-looking mother when she worked for Goldrings, Kreigers, and Holmes Dept Stores in New Orleans and for Clyde Campbell's Men's Store, the City of Ft. Worth, Paul's Shoe Store, Family Publications, and Cox's Department Store in Ft. Worth from 1956 through 1961. The FBI never obtained any employment information, W-2 forms, payroll records, employment applications or anything else from any of her employers. The FBI simply didn't want to interview anyone or gather records from any employer who knew the tall, nice-looking Marguerite Oswald. They intentionally ignored the tall, nice-looking Marguerite Oswald after 1956, and focused their attention on the short, heavy-set Marguerite Oswald impostor. It is also worth noting that from 1956 through 1959 not a single friend, neighbor, or employer of the short, dumpy Marguerite Oswald impostor recalled even a single visit by John Pic, Robert Oswald, HARVEY Oswald, or LEE Oswald. This is perfectly understandable, because the brothers did not know this woman, she was not their mother, nor was she HARVEY's mother. The FBI's failure to interview people in Ft. Worth and New Orleans who knew LEE Oswald and his tall, nice-looking mother--neighbors, friends, employers, co-workers--people who could have described their physical appearance in detail, their place of residence, their employment, etc. is another "smoking gun."For more information, see: HarveyandLee.net. -
Department of Defense unit diaries, Dec. 5, 1978,
House Select Committee on Assassinations (JFK Document 013485).
The HSCA document Steven is referring to above includes, I think, Marine Corps unit diaries listing troop movements during the time Harvey Oswald traveled to Taiwan and briefly served there, as well as an official denial that he ever left Japan. At any rate, this period is shrouded in secrecy and conflicting evidence for a very simple reason. This was when Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald assumed the identity of New Orleans-born Lee Oswald in preparation for Harvey's false defection to the USSR. While Harvey was in Taiwan, Lee remained in Japan.
During this time, Harvey's caretaker “mother” was living at 3006 Bristol Road in Fort Worth. The real Marguerite Oswald was living in apartment 3 at 3830 W. 6th, also in Fort Worth. Soon enough, phony Marguerite would claim that an equally phony nose injury required early release of her “son” from the Marines, thus establishing a paper trail “proving” that she was the mother of the soldier who would soon “defect” to Russia.
This material is covered in far greater detail in Harvey and Lee, pp. 195-202.
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The Murret family is fascinating. Here are two short excerpts from H&L....
Oswald's cousin, Marilyn Murret, also talked about Harvey's northern accent.
She told the Warren Commission, "It seems that he was from the North, and so they
ridiculed him in school.. ... he was riding the streetcar one day, I believe, and he sat next
to some Negroes. Well, when he got out of the streetcar, or bus, or whatever it was, these
boys ganged up on him, and hit him in the mouth ..... "10 [WC testimony of Marilyn Murret, 8 H 159]
It is interesting that Oswald's cousin, who knew that he was born in New Orleans, would
tell the Commission, "It seems that he was from the North." Unless, of course, Harvey was not
her real cousin and she was trying to protect his identity.
--Harvey & Lee, pp. 88-89
. . . .
November 1--Marilyn Dorothea Murret
On Sunday, November 1, John Pic's (and Lee Oswald's) cousin, Marilyn Murret,
visited Pic and his family at Tachikawa Air Base in Japan. Pic told the Warren Commis-
sion, "In approximately October-November, early November, the end of October 1959
(probably October 25) she called me up at the hospital.... and I invited her out to the
house the next weekend. She visited us on a Sunday (Nov. 1), I believe ..... she talked
about the family and everything ..... she talked about Lee ..... she said, 'Do you know that
Lee is in Europe?"' Somewhat surprised Pic said, "No, I don't know that."
NOTE: By reconstructing Pics testimony and noting that Pic contacted the US Embassy
in Tokyo on Thursday, November 6, we realize the only Sunday that Marilyn Murret
could have visited Pic and his family was on November 1, before Oswald's "defection"
was made public in Japan. Yet Marilyn Murret, the free-lance, globe-trotting school
teacher, somehow knew that Oswald had already left for Europe.
Pic did not know that Lee was in Europe and, somewhat curious, asked Marilyn
about him. Pic told Commission Attorney Jenner, "It was that night, sir, on the 9 o'clock
news (Sunday evening, Nov. 1) that I learned that Lee had defected .... on the American
Armed Forces Network ..... the next day it appeared in the paper (Monday, Nov. 2) ..... the
Stars and Stripes ... "
NOTE: The only English press in Japan at that time was the Stars and Stripes and the
American Armed Forces Network-neither of which had published articles or broadcast
news about Oswald's defection by the time Marilyn visited Pic and his family on Sun-
day, November 1.
Marilyn Murret had unknown but very good sources of information about
Oswald's defection. When asked by Commission Attorney Liebeler, "Did John (Pic) tell
you that Lee had gone to Russia?" Marilyn responded, "He didn't tell me, his wife told
me. So I didn't bring the subject up at all with John." SOMEONE IS LYING--either John
Pic or Marilyn Murret.
NOTE: Marilyn Dorothea Murret first applied for a US passport on July 7, 1954 and
listing her employment as a teacher. She listed both of her parents' birthdates incorrectly
(just as Lee Harvey Oswald had done on his 1959 passport application) and soon de-
parted the United States for Europe. When she applied for a second passport, on April
22, 1958, she again listed both of her parents' birthdates incorrectly and soon departed
the US. She traveled to New Zealand, Australia, the Philippines, Hong Kong, Singapore,
Malaya, and finally arrived in Japan in September 1959, where she spent the next six-
and-a-half months. In February 1961 she spent 9 months in India, followed by trips to
Karachi, Pakistan in April 1962, the Holy Land, Egypt, Beirot, Cypros and through-
out Europe. 38
After the assassination this free-lance, globetrotting, 35-year-old teacher came to the at-
tention of news reporters Robert S. Allen and Paul Scott of the "Northern Virginia Sun."
On March 26, 1964 they reported, under the subtitle "Hunt On For US Defectors," ef-
forts by the US government to locate the whereabouts of US citizens who had defected to
Russia or satellite countries since the end of WWII. Their column listed by name some of
the "most wanted" defectors and among those names was "Marilyn Murret." When
questioned by the FBI reporter Paul Scott stated that he had information that indicated
a "tie-up" between her and the case of Lee Harvey Oswald. Scott stated that he had in-
formation that indicated Murret was linked with the "communist apparatus" of Pro-
fessor Harold Isaacs of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. 39
In 1975 CIA Agent William George Gaudet told attorney Bernard Fensterwald, "She
(Marilyn Dorothea Murret) may have worked for the Agenry in New Orleans.
In 1978 the HSCA wanted to interview Marilyn Murret. On January 31, 1978 the Act-
ing Legislative Counsel for the CIA, Lyle L. Miller, wrote a letter to the HSCA (House
Select Committee on Assassinations). The letter stated, "So far as this Agency (CIA) is
concerned, there is no reason why Dorothy Marilyn Murret should not respond fully and
completely to any inquiry relevant to the investigation by the HSCA." Why would the
HSCA need to obtain the CIA's permission to question an ordinary US citizen who was
not supposed to have any connections to US intelligence agencies? The issuance of a let-
ter by the CIA referring to Marilyn Murret strongly suggests that she was either working
for, or had connections to, the CIA.
The HSCA finally interviewed Marilyn Murret in 1978, but the 23-page transcript of
her interview to this day is marked, "Referred--postponed in full. " Why?
--Harvey and Lee, pp. 273-274
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Yeah, right, we must have all missed that press release where the Navy announced it was training a spy for a false defection program. 'Cause, you know, when it comes to "Lee Harvey Oswald," we can all trust the U.S. Government to give us the straight poop, eh mate?
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--From Harvey and Lee, by John Armstrong:
Harvey Oswald at Ping Tung, Taiwan
When the Marines arrived at Ping Tung they immediately set up a temporary
radar station. While in Taiwan, First Lieutenant William Trail saw little of (Harvey)
Oswald, but saw and spoke with him a few months later at the Marine Corps base at
Santa Ana, California (early 1959). 58-11 First Lieutenant John Donovan remembered that
Oswald took photographs of troop deployments, fighter aircraft, ammunition bunkers,
and F-86 aircraft while in Taiwan. According to Donovan, Oswald was very interested
in the U-2 spy plane.
NOTE: Following the assassination of President Kennedy photographs of aircraft,
troops and bunkers were found by the Dallas Police among Harvey Oswald's possessions and
are now in the National Archives.49
After leaving Taiwan, Donovan was transferred to the Marine Corps Air Facil-
ity (MCAF ) at Santa Ana, CA where he worked closely with Harvey Oswald until his
discharge.
NOTE: Before joining the Marines, Donovan was an FBI agent and, after the assas-
sination, made many slanderous and untrue statements about Oswald. Donovan told
the Warren Commission that after Oswald defected, the Marines spent thousands of man-
hours changing all of the tactical frequencies and verifying the destruction of codes.
Donovan was the only person who made this claim, and his allegations were not sup-
ported by facts or the testimony of other Marines.
Fifteen years later Donovan told more slanderous, uncorroborated stories about Oswald
to the HSCA. Donovan said that Oswald allegedly had a liaison with an effeminate boy
in Taiwan, was seen talking to a wealthy Japanese man who travelled to the Soviet
Union, said that Oswald received a package from a suspicious-looking man at the base
gate, and said that Oswald was seen with a Russian-speaking woman at a night club in
Japan. 50 None of these allegations were ever verified.
On the evening of October 4th Harvey Oswald was assigned to guard duty at
Ping Tung. About midnight, Lieutenant Charles R. Rhodes (Lake City, SC) heard four
or five rifle shots coming from the direction of the position that Oswald was guarding.
He drew his .45 automatic and ran toward the clump of trees to see what had happened.
Lieutenant Rhodes found (Harvey) Oswald slumped against a tree, visibly shaking and
crying while holding his M-1 rifle across his lap.
Oswald told Rhodes that hesaw men in the woods, challenged them, and then
started shooting. Rhodes put his arm around Oswald's shoulder and slowly walked him
back to his tent. Rhodes remembered, "He (Oswald) kept saying he just couldn't bear
being on guard duty." Rhodes reported the incident to his commanding officer and
Oswald was allegedly sent to Japan for "medical treatment" two days later (Oct 6) by
military plane. 51 On October 6, Harvey Oswald and Peter Cassisi are listed on Marine
Corps Unit Diary #158-58 at Ping-Tung (North Taiwan). 58-13
NOTE: An incident report should have been in Oswald's Marine file as well as infor-
mation relating to Oswald's return trip to Atsugi by military transport.
In 1959, after "defecting" to the Soviet Union, Oswald talked about his expe-
rience in Taiwan with North American News Alliance (NANA)/CIA asset Priscilla
Johnson at the Metropole Hotel in Moscow. Oswald said, "After I finished high school
I joined the Marine Corps at 17 .... I was in Japan, the Philippines, Indonesia, and
Formosa (the Dutch name for Taiwan). 52 …the Russians would say Military Imperial-
ism. Well the occupation of one country is imperialistic, like Formosa. The conduct of
American technicians there helping drag up guns for the Chinese. Watching American
technicians show the Chinese how to use them is one thing. To talk about Communism
is another thing, to drag a .gun up a mountainside."53 58-14 After the interview Johnson
wrote an article in which she reported, "At 17 he entered the Marine Corps and was
discharged in September, having spent 14 months in Japan, the Philippines, Indonesia,
and Formosa (Taiwan)."54 58-15
A Naval message of November 4, 1959 (#22257 FF265651) reported, "Oswald served
with Marine Air Control Squadrons in Japan and Taiwan with duties involving
ground control intercept." 55 58-16 A similar message prepared by Lieutenant D. E.
Sigsworth, and sent from the Chief of Naval Operations to "ALSUNA" in Moscow,
stated, "Oswald served with Marine Air Control Squadron operations in Japan and Tai-
wan." 56 58-17
Following the assassination photographs taken by Harvey Oswald of aircraft,
troops and bunkers in Taiwan were found by the Dallas Police among his possessions
and are now in the National Archives.
In 1964 the short, dumpy, heavy-set "Marguerite Oswald" imposter told the
Warren Commission, "Lee was in Japan, Lee was in Corregidor, Lee was in the Phil-
ippines, Lee was in Formosa."57
In 1964, the Commission received a memorandum from the Assistant General
Counsel for the Department of Defense which stated that Oswald departed Atsugi on
September 14, 1958, was at Ping Tung, North Taiwan on September 30, and returned
to Atsugi on October 5. 58
Warren Commission Exhibit 1961 states, "14. September-6 October, 1958,
Embarked aboard AKA 105 with MACS 1, MAG II, 1st Marine Aircraft Wing and sailed
from Yokosuka, Japan on 14 September 1958 for South China Sea area. Was at Ping
Tung, North Taiwan on 30 September 1958; returned to Atsugi, Japan on 5 October,
1958. "59 58-18
NOTE: Neither the FBI nor the Warren Commission interviewed a single marine who
served with Harvey Oswald in Taiwan. Why ....... ?
Recollections of fellow Marines, Military records, Marine Corps Unit Diaries,
interviews with reporters, and numerous photographs taken by Harvey Oswald of mili-
tary installations clearly show that he was in Taiwan, with MAG II at Ping Tung from
September 14 to October 6. But the Commission also published Oswald's Marine Corps medi-
cal records which showed that Lee Oswald was in Atsugi on September 16, 20, 22, 23, and 29th.
Lee Oswald in Atsugi
While Harvey Oswald was in Taiwan, Lee Oswald remained at MACS I in
Atsugi, more than a thousand miles away, where the results of his medical examination
of August 10 revealed an acute case of urethritis.60
On September 16, while Harvey Oswald was aboard the USS Skagit en route to
Taiwan, Lee Oswald was examined at the Atsugi Station Hospital. A "smear" was taken
and sent "mainside" along with a report submitted by Captain P. Deranian, MC (Medi-
cal Corps), United States Navy (USN). The report stated, "Patient complains of a slight
discharge and a stinging sensation on urination." Lee Oswald was diagnosed as having
"urethritis, acute, due gonococcus #0303."** Captain Deranian wrote that the origin of
the disease was, "In line of duty, not due to own misconduct."61 58-19
**NOTE: On March 31, 1964 Staff Medical Officer Captain George Donabedian told
Warren Commission staff attorney John Hart Ely the Marine Corps Medical records
clearly showed that Oswald had contacted gonorrhea (probably from his Japanese girl-
friend).
On September 20, while Harvey Oswald was in Taiwan, Lee Oswald was again
examined at the Atsugi Station Hospital by a physician with the initials "].C." T he
doctor noted on Oswald's treatment record, "Still has profuse disch-somewhat clearer.
Received course of penicillin ending 2 days ago. "62 58-20
On September 22 and 23rd, while Harvey Oswald was still in Taiwan, Lee
Oswald was again examined by a physician at the Atsugi Station Hospital. T he doctor
noted on Oswald's treatment record, "Still present ... burning on urination."63 58-20121
On September 29th, while Harvey Oswald was in still in Taiwan, Lee Oswald
was again examined at the Atsugi Station Hospital by Dr. Kuchen (sp?). T he doctor
noted on Oswald's treatment record, "Good response to therapy--has been doing much
heavy lifting."64 58-22Heavy lifting? It is hard to imagine what kind of "heavy lifting" Oswald
would be doing if he were on radar duty. It is more likely that Lee Oswald was temporarily re-
assigned to other duties.
On October 6, Harvey Oswald and Peter Cassisi are listed on Marine Corps Unit
Diary #158-58 at Ping Tung, Taiwan, while Marine Corps medical records show that Lee
Oswald was once again examined at the Atsugi Station Hospital for urethritis. The
physician who treated Oswald wrote on his treatment record "Severe heavy discharge .....
(unintelligible ) ..... has been doing heavy lifting recently. "65 58-22
On October 6, Marine Unit Diary 1-58 (139) shows that "Lee H. Oswald" was
dropped from MACS 1 and assigned him to H&MS in preparation for his transfer back
to the US. Neither this nor any other Diary shows Oswald's transfer from Taiwan to
Atsugi.
NOTE: There is no explanation for Harvey Oswald in Taiwan from September 14-
200October 6 and Lee Harvey Oswald at the Atsugi station hospital in Japan on Septem-
ber 16, 20, 22, 23, 29 and October 4 and 6. T he only date that has a possible explana-
tion for these two concurrent entries is October 6. Warren Commission supporters sug-
gest that Oswald was flown from Taiwan to Atsugi on that day. T hat may be possible,
but what about the conflicting entries from September 14 thru October 5 .
If the Marine Corps Unit Diaries and the Marine Corps medical records are correct, then
these government records prove that Harvey Oswald was in Taiwan while Lee Oswald
in Atsugi at the same time.
Switching identities for the last time
Our analysis of Harvey and Lee during the Taiwan period, even though very
short, is extremely important, because it was in Taiwan that Russian-speaking Harvey
Oswald assumed the identity of New Orleans born Lee Oswald.
The documents and witness testimony published in the Warren Volumes that
placed Harvey Oswald in Taiwan caused a lot of trouble for the HSCA in 1978. So much
trouble, in fact, their only option was to lie.
In 1978 the HSCA had the following information concerning Oswald's departure from Atsugi
on September 14 and his presence in Taiwan thru October 6:
* Marine Corps Unit Diary 151-58 (7 44), which showed that Lee Harvey Oswald and his
unit departed Japan on September 14, 1958 aboard the USS Skagit.
• Photographs of military installations taken by Oswald in Taiwan that were recovered by
the Dallas Police.
• An interview with Lieutenant Charles R. Rhodes who served with Harvey Oswald in
Taiwan.66 Marine Corps Unit Diary 152-58, p. 747,for September 27, 1958, lists
Charles R. Rhqdes as "Wt>stPAC (We-stern Pacific) in the field.
• The November 4, 1959 message from the Chief of Naval Operations to Moscow saying that
Oswald had served in Taiwan
• Interviews of Oswald by Aline Mosby and Priscilla Johnson in which Oswald said he had
been in Taiwan.
• Marine Corps Diary 158-58, p. 7 62, for October 6, 1958, that lists Lee H. Oswald's lo-
cation as "Ping Tung (North) Taiwan."
But the HSCA also had Lee Harvey Oswald's Marine Corps medical records, published in
the Warren Volumes, that showed Oswald was treated at the Atsugi station hospital on nu-
merous occasions between September 14 and October 6. T hey knew these records placed
"Oswald" in two locations at the same time and needed to find a solution for this problem,
but without interviewing former Marines like Lieutenant Charles Rhodes who knew for a fact
that Oswald had been in Taiwan.
The problem was resolved by Robert Blakey, Chief Counsel for the HSCA. Blakey wrote to
Secretary of Defense Harold Brown and asked a very simple question, "During which peri-
ods was Oswald separated from his units overseas because of hospitalization (BLAKEY
ASKED NOTHING ABOUT TAIWAN). "67 58-23 The Department of Defense answered this
question by saying, "Oswald did not sail from Yokosuka, Japan on September 16, 1958. He
remained at NAS (Naval Air Station) Atsugi, as part of the MAG II rear echelon." 68 58-24 The DOD's answer clearly implied that Oswald did not travel to Taiwan, but remained in
Japan. Blakey then allegedly reviewed Oswald's Marine Corps Unit Diaries for MAG II and
201allegedly found no reference to Oswald departing from Yokosuka for Taiwan. However, the
Marine Corps Unit Diaries do exist and contain the following notations:
* Marine Corps Diary 151-58, p. 744,/or September 14, 1958, reads: "Emb (em
barked) AKA 1 OS and sailed fr Yokosuku Japan for the South China Sea Area auth
1st MAW ltr04/303 /lv P16-l of 29Aug58.
*Marine Corps Diary 158-58, p. 7 62, for October 6, 1958, lists Lee H. Oswald's lo
cation as "Ping Tung (North) Taiwan."
This means that neither Blakey nor HSCA staff members reviewed the documentation upon
which they based their conclusion. With misleading information from the DOD. and lying
about the contents ofthe Marine Corps Unit Diaries, Robert Blakey wrote:
"The Department of Defense specifically stated that 'Oswald did not sail from Yokosuka,
Japan on September 16, 1958. He remained aboard NAS Atsugi as part of the MAG-
11 rear echelon.' Accordingly, based upon a direct examination of Oswald's unit diaries,
as well as his own-military records, it does not appear that he had spent any time in
Taiwan. T his finding is contrary to that of the Warren Commission that Oswald arrived
with his unit in Taiwan on September 30, 1958, and remained there somewhat less than
a week, but the Commission's analysis apparently was made without access to the unit
diaries of MAG 11. " 69 58-25
Blakey, now a law professor at Notre Dame, resolved the problem as only a lawyer could-
by combining misleading information with outright lies in order to create the illusion that
Oswald was not in Taiwan I I In the final analysis, there are only two explanations for Blakey 's
conduct: either Blakey was incompetent and never read the Diaries or the interview of Lieu-
tenant Rhodes, or he knew about the conflicting records and intentionally sought to avoid the
"Taiwan problem."
After returning to the United States, Harvey Oswald was sent to the Marine base
at Santa Ana, California (MACS 9), while Lee Oswald remained in Japan. While in Cali-
fornia Harvey began preparing for his upcoming "defection" by discussing and support-
ing Cuba, Russia, and communism. He subscribed to Russian language newspapers, lis-
tened to Russian records, spoke in the Russian language, and took a military language
exam in Russian. Harvey had less than a year in which to convince fellow Marines that
his devotion to communism was the reason for his "defection."
At this point some readers might ask, "Was such an elaborate and multi-year decep-
tion plan really necessary in order to infiltrate one person into Russia?" The answer is, quite
simply, "Yes." The CIA spent years developing and training a native Russian-speaking
person (Harvey) for the sole purpose of placing him in the Soviet Union (similar to the
Russians placing English-speaking Konan Molodi/Lonsdale in England). The switch-
ing of Harvey's identity with that of New Orleans-born Lee Oswald had to be foolproof,
becauseyears of work and Harvey's life depended on their carefully laid plans.
NOTE: At the time of Harvey Oswald's "defection," in October, 1959, he had replaced
the American-born Lee Oswald only 12 months earlier. After Oswald's "defection" the
KGB would probably conduct a thorough investigation into his background, possibly as
far back as his birth. The Soviet intelligence agency, like the Warren Commission, H SCA,
and the American public, never realized they had been fooled.
The infiltration of Lee Harvey Oswald into Russia at the height of the cold war
was a dangerous gamble. If the Soviets ever discovered the 19-year-old American "de-
fector" spoke the Russian language perfectly, they would immediately suspect him of
being a spy. If they somehow learned that Harvey had been substituted for US-born
"Lee Harvey Oswald," their suspicions of his being a spy would be confirmed and he
would be arrested, meet with a fatal "accident," or worse.
But Harvey Oswald's identity was not discovered and the CIA's carefully
planned, and flawlessly executed impersonation, worked perfectly. Within a year the
CIA would have an undetected, but carefully watched, Russian-speaking agent inside
the Soviet Union. If anyone doubts that Harvey Oswald was sent by US intelligence for
the purpose of gathering information in the Soviet Union, they only have to read his
meticulously detailed synopsis of Soviet life, published in the Warren Volumes. 70
Oswald's "defection" fooled not only the Russians, but the FBI (until June, 1960), the
Warren Commission, the HSCA, thousands of journalists, book writers, private inves-
tigators and the American public.
NOTES:
49 National Archives, HSCA 180-1007I-IOI57, Numbered Files 007989; HSCA interview of Donovan 5/2/78.
50 Ibid.
51 Edward Epstein, "The Secret World of Lee Harvey Oswald," p. 81; Edward Epstein, " Assassination Chronicles," pp 368-370,
619-622.
52 WC Priscilla Johnson Exhibit 5.
53 WC Exhibit 1385.
54 WC Priscilla Johnson Exhibit 5.
55 Navy report #22257 FF265651, 11/9/59, entitled Webster, Robert and Oswald, Lee Harvey.
56 Naval Message 11/4/59 #22257, from CNO (Chief ofNaval Operations) to ALSUNA MOSCOW; CE 918.
57 WC testimony of Marguerite Oswald, 1 H 233.
58 WC Report, p. 684; CE 1961, p. 5.
59 WC Exhibit 1961, Volume 23, p. 797.
60 WC Donabedian Exhibit 1. p. 601.
61 Ibid. at 605.
62 Ibid. at 603.
63 ibid.
64 Ibid at 604.
65 Ibid at 604.
66 HSCA Report, p. 353: 29; CE 1385, p. 10; 22 H 705.
67 JFK Document 009383; Letter and attachments from Department of Defense to House Select Committee on Assassinations,
June 22, 1978, p. 20.
68 Letter from Judith A. Miller (Office of the Secretary of Defense) to G. Robert Blakey 6/22178
69 HSCA final report, p. 220.
70 we Exhibit 82; 16 H 287-336.
--All the above quoted with expressed permission
of the author from Harvey and Lee, pp. 198-203
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Interesting stuff, Steven.
Have the Ed Forum admins left up **ANY** of your old posts without follow-ups, or are they all gone? Please follow-up here with any interesting links still active.
-
Paul,
The CIA was only interested in Harvey Oswald because he spoke Russian. A guy with his education would never be an officer.
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--From Harvey and Lee, pp. 185-186
January--Lee in the Philippines
While stationed in the Philippines several of the Marines from Oswald's unit
often walked through the countryside and explored relics and equipment from World
War II while off duty. James R. "Bud" Persons enjoyed these expeditions and became
acquainted with Lee Oswald during this period. He remembered, "Oswald was easy to
get along with. He was quiet ..... he was not one of those animal-like guys."
Daniel Patrick Powers, who had known Oswald since radar school in Biloxi,
rejoined the squadron during this time and again saw Oswald. On January 22nd the
squad was put aboard an LST (Landing Ship Tank) en route to Corregidor, a distance
of 40 miles. T hey set up a radar bubble and arranged sleeping quarters in the remains
of a hospital that was bombed during World War II.
In Corregidor, Zack Stout, George Wilkins, Bobby Warren, and Oswald spent
countless off-duty hours exploring caves, tunnels and old battle sites from WWII.
Oswald took numerous color photographs of Stout, Wilkins, Warren and fellow Marines
that are now located in the National Archives. I obtained copies of these photographs
and sent them to Zack Stout, and he was able to identify several of his former Marine
buddies.
George A. "Hans" Wilkins, Jr. remembered that Oswald was on mess duty the
entire time he was there and became a proficient cook.9 A week or so after their unit
arrived they were visited by actor John Wayne, who was filming The Barbarian and the
Geisha. Wayne flew overhead in a helicopter and asked permission to land. When the
chopper landed Wayne was greeted by dozens of Marines who rushed out, crowded
around him, and then escorted him to the NCO club where he had more than a few
drinks.
On January 28 one of Oswald's friends, Richard Cyr, left Japan for Beaufort,
South Carolina. Cyr said that one of the Marines who would have known Oswald best
was Sergeant Gordon R. Dietrich.10 Sidney Robinson, whom Oswald assisted with guard
186duty, last saw Oswald in February, 1958.
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Larry Hancock's description of Lee Oswald's limited knowledge of U-2 reconnaissance and flight specs makes perfect sense. No particular claims about it are made in Harvey and Lee, and it would certainly make no sense whatsoever for American Intel publicly to send a young guy with real knowledge of the U-2 behind enemy lines in the Soviet Union.
But what mattered in a false defection was only whether some Russian officials would believe Oswald might have useful information, not what he actually knew or what we might think about it. When Paul Trejo speculates that he might have been an ONI dangle, that is a clear suggestion that Paul at least thinks some folks in U.S. Intel at the time believed some Russians might believe Oswald knew real secrets about U.S. reconnaissance flights. What else could possibly be of more interest at this point in the Cold War?
But none of the above matters. The Russian-speaking young man who “defected” to the Soviet Union was never stationed at Atsugi. He had no knowledge whatsoever of the U-2, either direct or via the grapevine. It was, therefore, completely safe to send him into potential harm's way in Russia.
In the thousand or so pages of Harvey and Lee, nowhere else is the evidence for two Oswalds clearer than in the roughly 150 pages covering the service of both young men in the USMC (primarily on pp. 146-290.) The evidence is far too long to even summarize here, involving Unit Diaries, medical and other records, interviews with soldiers who associated with one man or the other, and so on. Here is a brief excerpt from H&L that kind of summarizes the difference between the two soldiers.
Lee Oswald - drunk and not interested in politics or communism
Harvey Oswald seldom drank and was referred to by many people as a "tee-
totaler," but not Lee Oswald. Jerry Pitts recalled one night when (Lee) Oswald was passed
out drunk in a parking lot next to the barracks. Peter Cassisi remembered that Lee
Oswald returned from leave on several occasions in a completely drunken condition. John
Rene Heindel remembered that while in Japan, Lee Oswald drank a great deal, often
becoming intoxicated.73 He said, "Although I generally regarded Oswald as an intelli-
gent person, I did not observe him to be particularly interested in politics or international
affairs.”74
The Marines who knew the tall, husky Lee Oswald in Japan said that he never
spoke about communism, was not interested in politics, and never spoke or studied a
foreign language. He kept to himself, read a great deal, drank a great deal, and occa-
sionally engaged in fights with fellow Marines, but not Harvey.
The shorter, thinner Harvey Oswald was never known to have been involved
in a fist fight, continuously discussed communism and politics (North Dakota-1953,
Arlington Heights High School-1956, Allen Felde-1957, Palmer McBride-1957/58, Santa
Ana, California-1959), never drank, and spoke Russian fluently (MACS 9, Santa Ana,
California-1959).
H&L, p. 172
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Paul,Somewhere in State Secret, Mr. Simpich makes a statement close to the following: “The real state secret of the Kennedy assassination was the biography of Lee Harvey Oswald.” I agree wholeheartedly, though no doubt we would disagree on the details.But to refer to Oswald as “a confused adventurer” in the paragraph I excerpted above is missing the proverbial 300 pound gorilla sitting next to us while making note of all the insects in the room. The classic biography of “Lee Harvey Oswald,” even as portrayed in the WC Report, clearly describes a spy, despite all the denials we would expect a sponsoring state to make.From the Atsugi radar bubble monitoring top-secret U2 flights, to the Moscow Saturday charade at the U.S. Embassy, to Minsk, to home again on a U.S. loan, without any prosecution whatsoever, the whole story looks, sounds and smells exactly like what it was: a Cold War spy operation. The fact that in 1963 the State Department once again approved “Oswald's” travels to Communist nations is further proof that he was hardly a “confused adventurer.”I'm going to post a short excerpt from Harvey and Lee on more time. The last time I posed this, you argued that Webster and Oswald spied for ONI rather than CIA. Have you changed your mind?NOTE: In a 1997 interview Robert Webster told JFK researcher and author DickRussell that he met Marina Prusakova in Moscow in the summer of 1959 and spoke withher in English. Webster said that Marina spoke English well, but with a heavy accent.A year after Webster was sent to Leningrad by the Soviet Government, 400 miles fromMoscow, he met Marina again shortly after he applied for an exit visa so that he couldreturn to the US. [interview of Robert Webster by Dick Russell at Cape Cod, MA. 1997]Marina's friend in Dallas, Katya Ford, said that when she asked Marina why Oswaldwent to Russia, Marina told her that he worked for the Rand Corporation and helpedset up the American exhibit at the World Trade Exposition in Moscow.[WC Document 5,p. 259; FBI interview of Katherine Ford by SA James P. Hosty, 11/24/63] Marina had momentarilyconfused Harvey Oswald with Robert Webster, the 1st US "defector," whomshe met in Moscow (1959) and again in Leningrad (1960).It is not a coincidence that both Webster and Oswald "defected" a few months apart in1959, both tried to "defect" on a Saturday, both possessed "sensitive" information ofpossible value to the Russians, both were befriended by Marina Prusakova, and bothreturned to the United States in the Spring of 1962. These US "defectors," acting in perfectharmony, were both working for the CIA.--From Harvey and Lee, p. 799.
-
State Secrets is a very scholarly book, but I reject Mr. Simpich's conclusions about a simple molehunt for a number of reasons, perhaps the most important of which is illustated by the following excerpt from the conclusion of his book:I think this is what happened, or something close to it – while the Angleton-Egerter-Scott-Phillips-Goodpasture crowd was conducting molehunts around a confused adventurer like Oswald, the friends of the Morales-Roselli-Martino axis at SAS and JMWAVE used trusted sources within the AMOT shadow intelligence network to hijack Angleton’s Oswald legend and commit the ultimate act of extortion.What has been obvious for half a century is that "Oswald" was hardly a "confused adventurer." He was a spy, following orders. You, Paul, have made the argument that Oswald, like Robert Webster, spied for ONI. I think it is far more likely he worked for CIA, as numerous insiders have claimed. This simple fact throws the whole molehunt argument into profound disarray.
-
...Paul...anything we might loosely call “the CIA's position” on whether Kennedy was killed by a conspiracy or a Lone Nut surely paled in comparison to these not so lofty goals:
1. To hide the existence of what CIA accountant James Wilcott called the Agency's “Oswald Project,” and to avoid a more rigorous investigation by denying “Oswald” was employed by ANY branch of the U.S. government.2. To hide the fact that, despite all those “pulse” cameras and back-up cameras in front of the Soviet and Cuban offices in Mexico City, the Agency couldn't produce a single photograph (or, for that matter, an audio recording) of “Lee Harvey Oswald” in Mexico City.3. To hide the fact that some Agency personnel and assets were clearly trying to use the assassination and the accused assassin to provoke an invasion of Cuba.I seriously doubt LBJ or JEH needed to force Agency personnel to consider seriously the points above. Support for the LBJ/FBI/Warren Commission “Lone Nut” conclusion solved a great many problems for the Agency.Well, Jim, I'll respond by the numbers:
(1) There was nothing to hide -- CIA accountant James Wilcott only reported rumors he heard from people whose names he couldn't remember. The rumor about the “Oswald Project” was likely a joke, teasing Wilcott for his obsession with JFK CT's. Wilcott was a CIA Accountant, who had no knowledge of any Oswald account, or any Oswald checks. He heard rumors from teasers. Nothing to hide, clearly.
(2) As Bill Simpich clearly explains in his free, scholarly eBook, State Secret: Wiretapping in Mexico City (2014), the CIA high-command in Mexico City was obliged to start a Mole-Hunt to discover who inside the CIA (or other Intelligence Agency) was bold enough to IMPERSONATE Lee Harvey Oswald over the most wire-tapped phone on the Continent. Because all photographs of Lee Harvey Oswald were securely sequestered due to the Mole Hunt, they will not be available until Thu26oct2017. The Mole Hunt was unsuccessful -- so the CIA directives remained in place. There was nothing sinister about securing Oswald's photographs in an official capacity.
(3) The CIA does not typically expose its internal affairs to the outside world. There was a Mole in the CIA that led a plot to IMPERSONATE Lee Harvey Oswald, tyring to link his name to KGB Agent Valery Kostikov on Tue01oct1963. Subsequent events proved that this CIA Mole was involved with the JFK murder and the set-up of Lee Harvey Oswald as the Patsy. Yes, the goal of that plot was to provoke an invasion of Cuba. Yet: (3.1) it was a Mole who did that; and (3.2) that Mole was never identified despite great effort; and (3.3) the investigation of the JFK murder was given to the FBI/WC and not to the CIA. The CIA could not report that which they did not know. The Mole got away.
Regards,
--Paul Trejo
.
.
In this connection, I would mention two startling disclosures made by Hardway and Lopez. First, that they had prepared indictments of both Phillips and Goodpasture because of their repeated perjuries under oath to the HSCA. In the studies which follow, Jim spells out these lies, albeit he did not know at the time that Dan and Ed wanted the two CIA officers indicted. Second, that the CIA deliberately kept Dan and Ed away from Mexico City student leader Oscar Contreras. Contreras, like several others, was another witness who asserted that the man he met and who said he was Oswald was not the Oswald who was shot in Dallas. Would it not be rather logical to deduce from these two items of information that Phillips and Goodpasture knew Oswald did not visit either the Cuban or Soviet embassy, that they knew this before the assassination, and that they did what they could to ensure this was not revealed prior to November 22, 1963?– Albert L. RossiWill no one else on this forum accuse the CIA of crimes against JFK? Am I alone here with David Josephs and Steven Gaal? -
...In October 1977 Carl Bernstein, in an article for Rolling Stone magazine, wrote about the relationship between the CIA and major media organizations. Bernstein discovered long-standing cooperation between the Agency and the three major television networks (especially CBS), Time, Newsweek, The New York Times, the Associated Press, and United Press International. Following President Kennedy's assassination the CIA sent a dispatch to their stations with instructions on how to handle and employ CIA media assets to support the conclusions of the Warren Commission:
* Discuss the publicity problem with liaison and friendly elite contacts (especially politicians and editors), pointing out that the Warren Commission made as thorough an investigation as humanly possible, that the charges of the critics are without serious foundation, and that further speculative discussion only plays into the hands of the opposition. Point out also that parts of the conspiracy talk appear to be deliberately generated by Communist propagandists. Urge them to use their influence to discourage unfounded and irresponsible speculation.
* To employ propaganda assets to answer and refute the attacks of the critics. Book reviews and feature articles are particularly appropriate for this purpose. The unclassified attachments to this guidance should provide useful background material for passage to assets ..…
* In private or media discussion not directed at any particular writer, or in attacking publications which may be yet forthcoming, the following arguments should be useful:
a. No significant new evidence has emerged which the Commission did not consider .....
b. Critics usually overvalue items and ignore others .....
c. Conspiracy on the large scale often suggested would be impossible to conceal in the United States .....
d. Critics have often been enticed by a form of intellectual pride ..... VICTORS-11
This CIA dispatch helps to explain why those who support the government's position on President Kennedy's assassination receive full and widespread coverage, while assassination critics receive little, if any, coverage from the mainstream media and are often ridiculed.
--From Harvey and Lee, pp. 979-980
However, Jim, the CIA was not keen to promote the Lone Shooter scenario until forced into the position by J. Edgar Hoover with the force of LBJ behind him.
Until that point, the record shows, the CIA was keen to perceive Lee Harvey Oswald as a Communist asset. So, the current Lone Shooter position of the CIA was not originally their position -- but was forced upon them.
Regards,
--Paul Trejo
Perhaps so, Paul, but anything we might loosely call “the CIA's position” on whether Kennedy was killed by a conspiracy or a Lone Nut surely paled in comparison to these not so lofty goals:1. To hide the existence of what CIA accountant James Wilcott called the Agency's “Oswald Project,” and to avoid a more rigorous investigation by denying “Oswald” was employed by ANY branch of the U.S. government.2. To hide the fact that, despite all those “pulse” cameras and back-up cameras in front of the Soviet and Cuban offices in Mexico City, the Agency couldn't produce a single photograph (or, for that matter, an audio recording) of “Lee Harvey Oswald” in Mexico City.3. To hide the fact that some Agency personnel and assets were clearly trying to use the assassination and the accused assassin to provoke an invasion of Cuba.I seriously doubt LBJ or JEH needed to force Agency personnel to consider seriously the points above. Support for the LBJ/FBI/Warren Commission “Lone Nut” conclusion solved a great many problems for the Agency. -
Central Intelligence Agency. Following President Kennedy's assassination
former President Harry Truman, who established the CIA in 1947, made a formal state-
ment on December 21, 1963:
"For some time I have been disturbed by the way the CIA has been diverted
from its original assignment. It has become an operational and at times a policy-
making arm of government. I never had any thought that when I set up the CIA
it would be injected into peacetime cloak-and-dagger operations. Some of the
complications and embarrassment that I think we have experienced are in part
attributable to the fact that this quiet intelligence arm of the President's has
been so removed from its intended role that it is being interpreted as a symbol
of sinister and mysterious foreign intrigue-and a subject for cold-war enemy pro-
paganda."
. . .
In October 1977 Carl Bernstein, in an article for Rolling Stone magazine, wrote
about the relationship between the CIA and major media organizations. Bernstein dis-
covered long-standing cooperation between the Agency and the three major television
networks (especially CBS), Time, Newsweek, The New York Times, the Associated
Press, and United Press International. Following President Kennedy's assassination the
CIA sent a dispatch to their stations with instructions on how to handle and employ CIA
media assets to support the conclusions of the Warren Commission:
* Discuss the publicity problem with liaison and friendly elite contacts (espe-
cially politicians and editors), pointing out that the Warren Commission made
as thorough an investigation as humanly possible, that the charges of the critics
are without serious foundation, and that further speculative discussion only
plays into the hands of the opposition. Point out also that parts of the con-
spiracy talk appear to be deliberately generated by Communist propagandists.
Urge them to use their influence to discourage unfounded and irresponsible
speculation.
* To employ propaganda assets to answer and refute the attacks of the critics.
Book reviews and feature articles are particularly appropriate for this purpose.
The unclassified attachments to this guidance should provide useful back-
ground material for passage to assets ..…
* In private or media discussion not directed at any particular writer, or
in attacking publications which may be yet forthcoming, the following argu-
ments should be useful:
a. No significant new evidence has emerged which the Commission did
not consider .....
b. Critics usually overvalue items and ignore others .....
c. Conspiracy on the large scale often suggested would be impossible to
conceal in the United States .....
d. Critics have often been enticed by a form of intellectual
pride . .... VICTORS-11
This CIA dispatch helps to explain why those who support the government's
position on President Kennedy's assassination receive full and widespread coverage,
while assassination critics receive little, if any, coverage from the mainstream media and
are often ridiculed.
--From Harvey and Lee, pp. 979-980
-
Paul,
Who is "John Anderson"? You keep mentioning that name.
David Talbot: Allen Dulles, CIA and Rise of America's Secret Government
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted
Former CIA Director Allen W. Dulles was appointed by President Johnson as
a member of the Warren Commission. At the commission's first executive session Dulles
gave each member a copy of a book which claimed that assassinations of all US Presi-
dents were carried out by lone, crazed gunmen. Dulles then urged fellow Commission
members to limit their work to a review of the FBI's investigation. There is little doubt
that Dulles was familiar with the "Oswald" project and knew the extent of the CIA's in-
volvement in the assassination. Of the 7 member Commission it was Dulles who attended
the most meetings, it was Dulles who decided which CIA intelligence data was seen by Commis-
sion members, and it was Dulles who kept the Commission from looking into CIA activities.
Thanks to Allen Dulles neither the "Central Intelligence Agency" nor the "CIA" ap-
pear in the Warren Commission's index in Volume XV. In the authors opinion Allen Dulles
was almost certainly one of the high-level conspirators in the assassination of President Kennedy,
and was also instrumental in the cover-up.''
--from Harvey and Lee, by John Armstrong, p. 974