Jim Hargrove

Sandy, If the FBI made the mistakes you suggest in point 5 above, why did it take nearly a week for them to publicly correct the info when the error should have been clearly visible to anyone involved in analyzing the handwriting, or even looking at the evidence, just hours after the hit? If the purchase actually occurred, how was it paid for? With an uncashed, unprocessed magic money order? Are we to seriously believe that Kleins microfilmed even the envelope for each transaction, but not the method of payment? A few other questions remain unanswered: 1) LHO ORDERED 36" RIFLE, RECEIVED 40" RIFLE; 2) LHO TIMECARD SHOWS HE COULD DID NOT LEAVE WORK ON 3/12/63; 3) HOW DID MAILING ENVELOPE GET TO ZONE 12 IN DALLAS? 4) WHY NOT A SINGLE BANK STAMP OR DATE STAMP ON MONEY ORDER? 5) WHY NO DATE OR BANK STAMP ON DEPOSIT SLIP FOR $13,827.98? 6) HOW CAN ANYONE IDENTIFY A $21.45 ENTRY AS A MONEY ORDER ON WALDMAN 10 ? 7) FBI AGENT REPORTED TWO RIFLES FOUND ON THE KLEINS MICROFILM SIMILAR TO C2766, BUT NOTHING ABOUT C2766; WHY ?? 8) WHY DOES WALDMAN ALLEGEDLY TELL THE FBI THE $21.45 MONEY ORDER WAS DEPOSITED TO HIS BANK ON 3/13/63, BUT THEN TELLS THE WC THAT HE CANNOT DETERMINE WHEN THIS DEPOSIT WAS MADE? 9) WHAT HAPPENED TO THE MONEY ORDER STUB, ALLEGEDLY FOUND AT THE DALLAS GPO BY HARRY HOLMES? 10) HOW DID ROBERT JACKSON, EMPLOYEE OF THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES IN ALEXANDRIA, VA., COME INTO POSSESSION OF THE MONEY ORDER ON THE NIGHT OF 11/23/63? 11) WHY DID NEITHER THE FBI NOR THE WC ASK WALDMAN FOR A COPY OF THE KLEINS BANK STATEMENT FOR MARCH, 1963 IN ORDER TO DETERMINE IF AND WHEN A $13.827.98 DEPOSIT WAS MADE TO KLEINS ACCOUNT? 12) WALDMAN GAVE FBI AGENT DOLAN THE KLEINS MICROFILM AND DOLAN GAVE HIM A RECEIPT FOR THE MICROFILM. WHY DOES ANOTHER FBI REPORT SAY THE KLEINS MICROFILM WAS LEFT WITH WALDMAN ON 11/23/63? 13) WHY IS THERE A SS REPORT STATING THAT THE MONEY ORDER, FOUND IN KANSAS CITY, WAS BEING SENT TO WASHINGTON DC, WHILE A 2ND MONEY ORDER WAS FOUND IN ALEXANDRIA, VA? 14) WHY WAS NEITHER FBI AGENTS DOLAN, TOEDT, OR MAHAN CALLED TO TESTIFY BEFORE THE WC? 15) WHAT HAPPENED TO THE INFORMATION CONCERNING A RIFLE, SIMILAR TO C2766, THAT WAS SOLD BY KLEINS IN LATE MARCH, 1963, AND PAID FOR WITH A MONEY ORDER ISSUED ON 3/20/63? 16) EXPLAIN WHY, IF THE FBI HAD KLEIN'S ORDER FORM, THE $21.45 MONEY ORDER, ETC., ON 11/23/63, DID THE FBI NOT ANNOUNCE THIS TO THE PRESS? WHY DID THEY WAIT UNTIL 11/29/63? 17) EXPLAIN THE MARCH 20 NOTATION ON RUTH PAINES CALENDAR "LHO PURCHASED A RIFLE" 18) EXPLAIN WHEN AND WHERE OSWALD PURCHASED OR OBTAINED A CLIP AND AMMUNITION FOR THE RIFLE 19) EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED TO THE KLEINS MICROFILM WHILE IN FBI CUSTODY? 20) EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED TO THE POSTAL MONEY ORDER WHILE IN FBI CUSTODY? 21) EXPLAIN WHY THE FBI REPORTS, WHICH REFER TO INTERVIEWS WITH WALDMAN AND WILMOUTH, WERE NOT SIGNED BY THE REPORTING AGENT 22) IF CRESCENT DELIVERED C2766 TO KLEINS IN JANUARY, 1963, THEN EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED TO THE C2766 THAT CRESCENT SOLD TO KLEINS ON 6/18/63 22) WHY WAS LOUIS FELDSOTT NOT INTERVIEWED BY THE FBI OR WARREN COMMISSION?

I think that was DJ that dug that one up.

The real point, Scott, is that you can tell this Magic Money Order is forged merely by looking at it. If the row of numbers at the top are, in fact, File Locator numbers, then that seems to indicate that the money order went completely through the system. But it did so without an endorsement or date stamp from a single financial institution, in clear violation of Postal regs.

Bump.

This is not rocket science. Just contact the JFK Assassination Records department of the National Archives and ask them if they have the original of the Magic Money Order, the stub, or Klein's microfilm. Textual Records Reference Division Room 2400 National Archives and Records Administration 8601 Adelphi Road College Park, MD 20740 By E-mail: archives2reference@nara.gov By Telephone: 301-837-3510 Unlike, I suspect, anyone else active on this forum, John Armstrong spent months at the National Archives in D.C. where, wearing little white “evidence gloves,” he examined all of “Lee Harvey Oswald's” so-called possessions, as well as the so-called evidence against him. (John says the Archives made it much tougher for people to directly examine the alleged evidence soon after he completed his work there in the late 1990s.) Unlike anyone else here, I suspect, John also purchased the complete set of “FBI Series II” microfilm reels from UMI, which contains, apparently, all the reports and various facsimiles the FBI created and collected for the Warren Commission. I partly read and partly skimmed through just one of those reels, and it is an enormous job. When it comes to understanding what documents and artifacts actually exist at the JFK Assassination Archives, I doubt any JFK researcher on earth can speak with greater authority than John Armstrong.

Sandy, See notes in blue: The FBI has the Carcano rifle in their possession at 11:45 PM CST on Friday the 22nd, from which they get the serial number C2766. The FBI discovers from a gun dealer in Dallas that Italian surplus WW2 rifles were being distributed by Crescent Firearms in New York City. This leads the FBI to Klein's in Chicago after finding out that Crescent had sold the "C2766" rifle to Klein's. YES, THE FBI FOUND OUT IT WAS SOLD ON 6/18/62. WHY THEN DID THE FBI LATER REPORT THAT CRESCENT SOLD C2766 TO KLEINS IN JANUARY, 1963? Klein's records are searched and the "C2766" Internal Invoice is found (what would become "Waldman Deposition Exhibit No. 7"), which provides pertinent information about the sale of Italian rifle No. C2766 for $21.45 to one A. Hidell of Dallas, Texas (via "M.O." [money order]) on March 20, 1963 (which is the date the FBI goes with THEN EXPLAIN WHY AN FBI MEMO, WRITTEN TO THE SECRET SERVICE, DESCRIBES A RIFLE SOLD BY KLEINS THAT WAS SIMILAR TO C2766 THAT WAS PAID FOR WITH A MONEY ORDER ISSUED ON 3/20/63, instead of the date stamped at the very top of invoice--March 13, 1963--which was the date Klein's put the Hidell order through their cash register, as William Waldman explained in his Warren Commission testimony; the March 20 date was, of course, the date the rifle was shipped to Hidell/Oswald) IT WAS ALSO THE DATE ANOTHER RIFLE WAS SOLD BY KLEINS, AND PAID FOR WITH A MONEY ORDER ISSUED ON 3/20/63.. In addition to the internal Klein's Internal Invoice, the FBI also found on microfilm the "Order Letter" (as Curry later called it), which is CE773. The Order Letter is the order form clipped by Oswald out of the Feb. '63 American Rifleman magazine, and the envelope in which it was mailed. The FBI quickly determined that the writing on the Order Letter was that of Lee Harvey Oswald. YES, AND ACCORDING TO CURRY THE PRICE OF THE RIFLE WAS $12.78, NOT $21.45 [questions: when were the invoice and order letter found? the microfilmed order letter includes the envelope it was mailed in... seriously, Klein's microfilmed even envelopes? why did the search take seven hours?] Internal Invoice Information: 3/13/63 receipt date; 3/20/63 processing & shipping date; $19.95 rifle cost; $21.45 total cost; C2766 serial number; paid by money order; "W/ 4X SCOPE" Order Letter Information: Hidell's handwriting; Hidell's address; $19.95 rifle price. Somebody connected with the discovery of the Internal Invoice must have transmitted the wrong purchase price to other FBI personnel ($21.95 instead of $21.45), which led to confusion when the FBI and Secret Service began searching for the money order that was used to pay for the rifle. HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE IF THE FBI HAD THE WRITTEN DOCUMENTATION (KLEINS ORDER FORM) ON 11/23/63? In a hallway press conference on the night of Nov. 23, Chief Jesse Curry refers to the Order Letter.[question: what Order Letter information does he report?] HE REPORTS THE RIFLE WAS SOLD FOR $12.78 ???[questions: when did the press get the $12.78 price and 3/20/63 order date information?(REPORTED BY CURRY AND THE PRESS ON 11/23/63) what was the $21.95 I had in my list... I forget... was that reported by the press as well?] THE $21.95 WAS IN AN FBI MEMO TO THE SECRET SERVICE ON 11/23/63 According to FBI report CD75, on Nov. 23, the following information was received from the VP of Klein's's bank. -- On Mar. 15 1963, Klein's had deposited $13,827.98 in its bank. NO CONFIRMATION OF THE DATE OF DEPOSIT/ DEPOSIT SLIP SAID 2/15/63; WALDMAN TOLD THE WC HE COULD NOT SAY WHEN THE DEPOSIT WAS MADE; The deposit included a $21.45 postal money order IT INCLUDED 7 INDIVIDUAL DEPOSITS OF $21.45--NOT ONE -- On Mar. 16 the bank had sent the $21.45 PMO to the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago. NO WAY TO PROVE THIS. NO DOCUMENTATION. NO DATE ON THE MONEY ORDER. It would have been received by the FRB on Mar. 18. PROVE THIS! According to SS report CD87, at about 8:30 PM on Nov. 23 a request was issued to locate and obtain postal money order #2,202,130,462 dated 3/12/63 in the amount of $21.45 payable to Klein's by Alek James Hidell. [question: how and when did the SS get the money order number and date?] ???[question: anything else?] MANY QUESTIONS: 1) LHO ORDERED 36" RIFLE, RECEIVED 40" RIFLE; 2) LHO TIMECARD SHOWS HE COULD DID NOT LEAVE WORK ON 3/12/63; 3) HOW DID MAILING ENVELOPE GET TO ZONE 12 IN DALLAS? 4) WHY NOT A SINGLE BANK STAMP OR DATE STAMP ON MONEY ORDER? 5) WHY NO DATE OR BANK STAMP ON DEPOSIT SLIP FOR $13,827.98? 6) HOW CAN ANYONE IDENTIFY A $21.45 ENTRY AS A MONEY ORDER ON WALDMAN 10 ? 7) FBI AGENT REPORTED TWO RIFLES FOUND ON THE KLEINS MICROFILM SIMILAR TO C2766, BUT NOTHING ABOUT C2766; WHY ?? 8) WHY DOES WALDMAN ALLEGEDLY TELL THE FBI THE $21.45 MONEY ORDER WAS DEPOSITED TO HIS BANK ON 3/13/63, BUT THEN TELLS THE WC THAT HE CANNOT DETERMINE WHEN THIS DEPOSIT WAS MADE? 9) WHAT HAPPENED TO THE MONEY ORDER STUB, ALLEGEDLY FOUND AT THE DALLAS GPO BY HARRY HOLMES? 10) HOW DID ROBERT JACKSON, EMPLOYEE OF THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES IN ALEXANDRIA, VA., COME INTO POSSESSION OF THE MONEY ORDER ON THE NIGHT OF 11/23/63? 11) WHY DID NEITHER THE FBI NOR THE WC ASK WALDMAN FOR A COPY OF THE KLEINS BANK STATEMENT FOR MARCH, 1963 IN ORDER TO DETERMINE IF AND WHEN A $13.827.98 DEPOSIT WAS MADE TO KLEINS ACCOUNT? 12) WALDMAN GAVE FBI AGENT DOLAN THE KLEINS MICROFILM AND DOLAN GAVE HIM A RECEIPT FOR THE MICROFILM. WHY DOES ANOTHER FBI REPORT SAY THE KLEINS MICROFILM WAS LEFT WITH WALDMAN ON 11/23/63? 13) WHY IS THERE A SS REPORT STATING THAT THE MONEY ORDER, FOUND IN KANSAS CITY, WAS BEING SENT TO WASHINGTON DC, WHILE A 2ND MONEY ORDER WAS FOUND IN ALEXANDRIA, VA? 14) WHY WAS NEITHER FBI AGENTS DOLAN, TOEDT, OR MAHAN CALLED TO TESTIFY BEFORE THE WC? 15) WHAT HAPPENED TO THE INFORMATION CONCERNING A RIFLE, SIMILAR TO C2766, THAT WAS SOLD BY KLEINS IN LATE MARCH, 1963, AND PAID FOR WITH A MONEY ORDER ISSUED ON 3/20/63? 16) EXPLAIN WHY, IF THE FBI HAD KLEIN'S ORDER FORM, THE $21.45 MONEY ORDER, ETC., ON 11/23/63, DID THE FBI NOT ANNOUNCE THIS TO THE PRESS? WHY DID THEY WAIT UNTIL 11/29/63? 17) EXPLAIN THE MARCH 20 NOTATION ON RUTH PAINES CALENDAR "LHO PURCHASED A RIFLE" 18) EXPLAIN WHEN AND WHERE OSWALD PURCHASED OR OBTAINED A CLIP AND AMMUNITION FOR THE RIFLE 19) EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED TO THE KLEINS MICROFILM WHILE IN FBI CUSTODY? 20) EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED TO THE POSTAL MONEY ORDER WHILE IN FBI CUSTODY? 21) EXPLAIN WHY THE FBI REPORTS, WHICH REFER TO INTERVIEWS WITH WALDMAN AND WILMOUTH, WERE NOT SIGNED BY THE REPORTING AGENT 22) IF CRESCENT DELIVERED C2766 TO KLEINS IN JANUARY, 1963, THEN EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENED TO THE C2766 THAT CRESCENT SOLD TO KLEINS ON 6/18/63 22) WHY WAS LOUIS FELDSOTT NOT INTERVIEWED BY THE FBI OR WARREN COMMISSION? This all seems consistent so far. I need to insert the information reported by the press and answer the questions in red. Any help would be appreciated.

--Handwriting, analyzed by the Federal Bureau of Investigation in Washington as Oswald's on an assumed-name order to a Chicago mail order house last March 20 for a $12.78 rifle, similar to the assassination weapon. Oswald, Chief Curry said, continued to insist that he had never owned a rifle. --New York Times Service, Nov. 23, 1963 (emphasis added)

No, Mr. Von Pein, I started this thread because you posted three links to the imaginary conversations on your website in your post #105 on my "John Armstrong blasts the mail order rifle 'evidence'" thread. I followed those links that you posted, read a bit of your material... and was appalled! The links to your website I put at the top of this thread are the very same links you first posted in the John Armstrong rifle evidence thread. And that's why I started this thread.

And now for something Completely Legitimate.... This was posted by Sandy Larsen in another thread, but it certainly belongs here:

The FBI "verified" Oswald's handwriting on the order form, eh? Let's take a look at that "verified" handwriting: Sure looks like this "verified" handwriting indicates $19.95! So how come hundreds of daily newspapers and radio and television stations across America and the world said for nearly a week after the assassination that the "verified" handwriting was for a $12.78 rifle... one that was bought a week after the above order form arrived at Kleins? Guess I just don't have enough "common sense" to see how little there is to be concerned about here.

That's not exactly what is said on the Education Forum's homepage, Jon. The first line under “Terms of Use” is this: Unless otherwise stated, the copyright and other intellectual property rights in all material on this site is owned or controlled by the Education Forum. I don't see anything about public domain. Did we all have to consent to something different when we signed up? I don't recall.

Yeah, Healy, the recent verification that Oswald's money order is legit and genuine (via the File Locator Number) was a real bummer for the LN side, wasn't it? jfk-archives.blogspot.com/The-File-Locator-Number-On-The-Hidell-Money-Order BTW: When Healy makes his first post here that has any "JFK" substance to it, please call ABC and FOX News immediately! That will be major Breaking News. I'll bet the moderators just love comments like this. Mr. Von Pein is a man with a GREAT imagination! He takes all kinds of things many of us post here, shuffles them up into whatever order appeals to him, and then reassembles them into imaginary conversations on his website, always, I'm guessing, proving whatever point he wishes to make about how great the Warren Commission was. Now he changes the subject of this thread and declares that the Magic Money Order is “legit and genuine (via the File Locator Number)” and offers, as proof, one of the imaginary conversations on his website! Let's go with his redirection for a moment. Saying the bogus money order is legit because of a file locator number is like saying a counterfeit twenty dollar bill has to be genuine because it has “THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA” and “IN GOD WE TRUST” and “TWENTY DOLLARS” printed on it. Anyone with knowledge of how the system works, such as Dallas Postal Inspector/FBI informant Harry Holmes could have easily put together this forgery. (He's the fellow, by the way, who allegedly found the stub of the Magic Money Order, but never produced it, and then couldn't remember the guy who gave it to him.) We know the Magic Money Order is a fraud because it was never processed by any bank or financial institution, in clear violation of Postal regulations. We also know it is bogus from the statements in daily newspapers and television newscasts from the days immediately after the assassination, when information that could have ONLY come from the FBI indicated “Oswald/Hidell” purchased a $12.78 rifle (instead of the $19.95 price the FBI eventually settled on) and that he ordered it on March 20 (as opposed to the March 12 date on the Magic Money Order.) These are “facts” and reports the FBI couldn't fabricate and backdate because they were already in the public record. CLICK HERE to see and hear TV newsman Frank Reynolds tell America "Oswald" ordered the rifle on March 20, 1963. Many other factors indicate that the alleged handling of the money order as presented by the Warren Commission is completely false are presented in John Armstrong's write-up called “Mail Order Rifle.” READ IT HERE.

So, to sum up what the FBI was telling the world on 11/23/63.... They didn't know how much the rifle cost. They didn't know when it was ordered. But they sure as hell knew that the handwriting on the order form was that of "Lee Harvey Oswald," posing as "A. Hidell." Isn't that AMAZING?

David Von Pein is taking selected excerpts of your words posted here—along with your names--and pasting them on his “DVP's JFK Archive,” website, in episodes that usually end with his self-proclaimed victory over any and all others. Among the people whose words he takes are Jim DiEugenio, Pat Speer, Sean Murphy, Thomas Graves, Greg Parker, Sandy Larson, Jon G. Tidd, me, and many, many others. The excerpts are sometimes short, sometimes VERY long, but always, in their totals, far beyond what anyone would consider fair use. Here are some examples of what he is doing: jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2015/10/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1058.html jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/12/oswald-ordered-rifle.html jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2013/04/dvp-vs-dieugenio-part-87.html#Ruth-Paine-Calendar Did you give your permission to Mr. Von Pein to use your words on his website? Did he ask you if the selection he took was accurate, complete, and a true representation of your feelings on the matter in question? Posting on the internet does not put anyone's original words in the public domain, unless it is explicitly stated that the work is intended to be in the public domain.

Wowie Zowie, Batman, this is all just SO FUNNY!!! In the clip offered above by Mr. Von Pein, Frank Reynolds tells America that our man “Oswald” purchased a $12.78 rifle on March 20! But the official date of the order in the Warren Commission was March 12! That's the date on the Magic Money Order. The WC tells us Klein's had the order at its Chicago office the very next day, March 13. The March 20 date is one of the dates the FBI put out while it was still making stuff up but hadn't gotten the story straight about the matching handwriting on the magic order form for the $12.78/$21.45/$21.95 Magic Rifle. From John's article: A $21.95 rifle or a $12.78 rifle ? FBI agents had documentation from Louis Feldsott (Crescent Firearms) that showed C2766 was sold to Kleins on June 18, 1962. But the 3 FBI agents who examined Klein's microfilm for 7 hours found no documentation that related to C2766. They did, however, find documentation that showed Klein's sold a $21.95 rifle that was paid for with a postal money order issued on March 20, 1963. This date was noted on Ruth Paine's personal calendar with a hand-written 5-point "star" that she placed next to the "20th" of March. Mrs. Paine then placed a second hand-written 5-point "star" in the upper left corner of this calendar with the notation, "LHO purchase of rifle." Is it possible that on March 20, 1963 Kleins shipped a $21.95 rifle to L.H. Oswald, A.J. Hidell, or someone (Ruth Paine?) at PO Box 2915 in Dallas? Perhaps, but we may never know. The FBI found this information on the Kleins microfilm, but never released information as to the serial number, the name of the individual who purchased this rifle, nor the address to which it was shipped. We only know that a $21.95 postal money order was issued/purchased on March 20, 1963, and sent to Kleins in payment for a rifle that was similar to the one found on the 6th floor of the TSBD. The day after the assassination (11/23/63) the FBI advised the Secret Service and FBI informant/Dallas postal inspector Harry Holmes, that a rifle similar to that found on the 6th floor was sold by Kleins for $21.95, and was paid for with a postal money order issued on March 20, 1963 (CD 296). This information could only have come from the Klein's microfilm. NOTE: The FBI's failure to announce the correct price of the rifle ($21.45) on 11/23/63, after 3 FBI agents spent 7 hours reviewing Klein's microfilm, is the best indication that Oswald/Hidell's order was not on the microfilm. The only thing the 3 agents found was the sale of a rifle by Kleins that was paid for with a postal money order issued on March 20, 1963 for $21.95. We know that Crescent sold C2766 to Klein's on June 18, 1962, but we will never know if the $21.95 rifle found on the Kleins microfilm was C2766 and we will never know the name of the person who purchased this rifle. At 10:00 AM, November 23, FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover told President Lyndon Johnson that a money order was used to pay for the rifle. The only information Hoover had at this time came from the Klein's microfilm. Therefore, Hoover was referring to the $21.95 postal money issued on March 20, 1963 in payment for a rifle from Kleins (CD 296). This information ($21.95 postal money order issued on March 20, 1963) was shared with the Secret Service and US postal inspector/FBI informant Harry Holmes on 11/23/63. NOTE: The FBI never provided any information as to the serial number of the $21.95 rifle, the model number of this rifle, the name of the purchaser, the location of the post office from which the $21.95 money order was purchased, or the location of where the $21.95 money order was located.

DVP is NOT going to argue JA's article, Jim. Thanks much for hosting it!!!

Yo, DVP, thanks for posting the Kleins ads. Especially the one you CIRCLED SO BOLDLY! That's the $12.78 "6.5 Italian Carbine" J. Edgar Hoover thought INCLUDED a SCOPE. Just look at the ad!!! Look at the picture of a rifle WITH A SCOPE above the $12.78 price! It's easy to see why J.E. Hoover was fooled. Easy to see how he made that mistake, eh?

Because they simply kept repeating the main $12.78 price for the rifle (without the scope) that was originally reported by Chief Curry on TV on 11/23/63. Nobody in the media took the time in those first few days to seek out what the price was WITH the scope included. Big deal. There's no cover-up there. Just a lack of details regarding the "With Scope" price. Again .... big deal. It's only a "big deal" to rabid conspiracy theorists like you, Jim. Wrong again, DVP. The FBI's ignorance of the details (including COST) of the so-called assassination rifle (which Curry indicated was WITH SCOPE for $12.78) continued for NEARLY A WEEK AFTER THE ASSASSINATION. When you look at the FACTS, it's utterly AMAZING that FBI techs could analyze LHO's handwriting so quickly with absolutely nothing to go on.... MEGATHANKS to Sandy Larsen for explaining to me the COPY IMAGE LOCATION technique here. Now I can GET STARTED!!!

Jim didn't post the example of the government (the FBI in this case, according to John Armstrong) taking liberties in modifying sworn testimony. So I will. Here's the transcript of Cadigan's testimony: Note the handwritten changes! Now here is proof that the changes made their way to the Warren Report: Incredible! What do you have to say about this, David V.P.? BTW Jim, maybe you're having trouble posting images because of the 1 MB limit placed on images hosted on the forum. Are you aware that you can still post images? The images remain hosted on another website (like harveeandlee.net) but appear here in the thread. Here's how to do that, just in case you don't know. Right-click on the image you want and select Copy Image Location. Then in the thread here, click the editor's Image icon. When asked for the image URL, paste the image location (right-click and select Paste) you had copied. Thanks, Sandy. I'll give the copy image location technique a try. My problem here is that on the add reply window, I have a message that reads: "You can upload up to 6.11KB of files (Max. single file size: 6.11KB)." It's pretty hard to find a useful image file that small. Back to the subject of FBI malfeasance: For those who find the idea of the FBI changing testimony and forging documents hard to believe, please be reminded that the whole article that is the subject of this thread gives example after example of just that. If you have an hour or so to read it, CLICK HERE. If you only have three and a half minutes to see proof of how the FBI dramatically altered the statements of Dealey Plaza witness, take a look at this ....

To David Von Pein…. There is plenty of evidence at the National Archives incriminating “Lee Harvey Oswald,” and all of it is phony. For one tiny example…. A few years after the assassination, Atty. Mark Lane interviewed three Dealey Plaza witnesses to the assassination of JFK and showed how the FBI altered their statements. These Mark Lane interviews recently were uploaded to YouTube by JFK researcher Gil Jesus. See the proof of FBI report falsifications right here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODXoISgU-0M William Waldman certainly did not have to be a part of the conspiracy to convict “Lee Harvey Oswald.” He only had to say a few things the FBI asked him to, and, if he wouldn't do that, the FBI and/or Warren Commission merely had to alter his testimony, just as happened so clearly to the witnesses in the YouTube video linked above. In his article on the mail order rifle, John Armstrong mentions Waldman 47 times, and shows, again and again, how the information he ALLEGEDLY supplied was untrue and how FBI reports and other documents were fabricated and backdated. Here is one short segment of his article: Six months later, in May, 1964, Warren Commission attorney David Belin asked Waldman when the money order was deposited. Waldman testified, "I CANNOT specifically say when this money order was deposited by our company....." Of course Waldman could not say when the money order was deposited, because there was no date of deposit on the money order and the $13, 827.98 deposit slip was dated February 15, 1963--a month before the $21.45 money order was allegedly purchased by Oswald in Dallas. This FBI report is yet another fabrication. No bank stamps or dates on the postal money order Waldman was a middle age businessman, and VP of Klein's Sporting Goods. David Belin was an attorney, with years of experience in business matters. Either of these men could have examined the front and back side of postal money order 2,202,130,462, looking for a bank stamp that showed the date of deposit. The absence of a dated bank stamp on a check, money order, or bank draft, would cause most business people and bankers to conclude the item was never deposited to a bank or cashed. The fact that Belin did not ask Waldman about a dated bank stamp on the money order is very suspicious, and suggests that Belin intentionally refrained from asking this question. And for a very good reason. If the money order was never deposited, then Kleins would not have shipped C2766 to Oswald. He could not have shot at General Walker. His photo holding the rifle would not have appeared on the cover of Life Magazine. He could not have carried the rifle to the 6th floor of the TSBD. He could not have shot and killed JFK. There is no proof that Waldman reviewed Klein's bank records on November 22/23. If he had reviewed bank records he may have seen a single deposit for $13,827.98, which was a total of hundreds of deposit items listed on an adding machine tape. But none of these individual items were identifiable as cash, checks or money orders. Waldman could not have seen a postal money order in the amount of $21.45 deposited on November 22/23. The postal money order shown to him by the WC testimony did not have a date of deposit, nor a bank stamp, nor a stamp from the FRB of Chicago nor a stamp from the FRB of Richmond. There was nothing, then or now, that indicated this postal money order was ever deposited to a financial institution or cashed. This FBI report, backdated to November 23, 1963, was a another fabrication. The Secret Service asked Waldman about the $13,827.98 deposit, which Waldman allegedly said included not one, but two $21.45 money orders (see both Waldman Exhibits 10, below). Waldman pointed out that the bank had listed the date of this deposit as 2-15-63; however, Waldman allegedly stated that the bank had definitely made a mistake on this date, as the date of deposit was 3/15/63. But Waldman then said that he had no way of proving it was the wrong date. NO WAY OF PROVING IT?? If a $13,827.98 deposit was made on 3/15/63, instead of on 2/15/63 as shown on the deposit slip, then Waldman simply needed to produce the Klein's bank statement for the month of March, 1963. But he did not. The fact that neither Waldman, the FBI, the Secret Service, nor the Warren Commission requested Kleins bank statement for March, 1963, in order to prove the $13,827.98 deposit was made on March 15, is reason to believe the paper adding machine tapes and the non-stamped bank deposit slip (shown below as Waldman 10) are FBI fabrications. Both items were created for the purpose of showing that a postal money order in the amount of $21.45 was deposited to Klein's account at the First National Bank of Chicago. The FBI's greatest piece of chicanery happened in the wee hours of the night of Nov 22-23, 1963, when the FBI secretly took “Oswald's Possessions” from the Dallas Police Department, transported them to Washington, D.C. altered them, and then secretly returned them to Dallas, only to publicly send them to Washington. D.C. a few days later. Among a great many other alterations, a Minox “spy camera” became a Minox “light meter.” FBI agent James Cadigan inadvertently spilled the beans about the secret transfer during his sworn WC testimony, which was altered by the WC. CLICK HERE (see roughly half way down the page) to see Cadigan's altered WC testimony, which John Armstrong believes is in the handwriting of Allen Dulles....) By mid-1964, the FBI had a procedure in place to materially alter the testimony of its own agents, even over the objections of Warren Commission attorneys. Read the FBI instructions here. And by the way… The FBI has a long and sordid history of inventing all kinds of incriminating evidence favorable to the prosecution. In more recent news of FBI malfeasance: "Pseudoscience in the Witness Box: The FBI faked an entire field of forensic science," is the headline from the April 22, 2015 online edition of Slate Magazine. The same Slate article quoted a Washington Post story of a few days earlier, which stated: “The Justice Department and FBI have formally acknowledged that nearly every examiner in an elite FBI forensic unit gave flawed testimony in almost all trials in which they offered evidence against criminal defendants over more than a two-decade period before 2000.” Remember the Frederick Whitehurst scandal from the 1990s? Whitehurst was one of the Bureau's top scientists, and he complained for more than a decade toward the end of the last century about the FBI's vaunted crime lab faking evidence and slanting it toward the prosecution. According to the Feb. 27, 1998 edition of CNN: -------------------------------------- For 10 years Whitehurst complained mostly in vain about lab practices. But his efforts finally led last April to a scathing 500-page study of the lab by Justice Department Inspector General Michael Bromwich. Bromwich blasted the famed lab for flawed scientific work and inaccurate, pro-prosecution testimony in major cases, including the Oklahoma City and World Trade Center bombings. Bromwich recommended major reforms, discipline for five agents that is still under consideration and transfer of Whitehurst to other duties. ------------------------------------ I don't trust ANY report (including reports allegedly from other U.S. Government agencies) that the FBI provided to the Warren Commission. So many, many of them are provably phony. But because J. Edgar Hoover was unable to collect the millions of copies of U.S. daily newspapers from the first few days after the assassination, the evidence remains that Hoover told Curry that it was Oswald's handwriting on an order for a $12.45 rifle from Kleins. Spin it any way you can, but that is a Big Deal.

Searching around on a big newspaper database this morning, I was surprised to find that references to the imaginary $12.78 rifle with scope from Kleins continued in many daily papers well into the month of December 1963, long after the FBI had officially changed the price of the “Oswald/Hidell” order to $21.45. And it got me to thinking…. How could the FBI be so stupid as to invent the mail order sale of a $12.78 rifle with scope from Kleins when, in fact, no such rifle existed at the time. And so I decided to look at some of the Kleins ads again, and then it became clear. I'm not allowed to upload graphics here, but you can easily duplicate what I found by going to images.google.com and searching for “Kleins” and “rifle” and “Oswald.” The amazing result is that every ad I saw for a $12.78 rifle appeared right under a picture of a “6.5 Italian carbine” with a scope attached. The copy immediately below doesn't say there is no scope on the $12.78 rifle. But immediately under the $12.78 rifle description is a line that reads: “Carbine with Brand New Good Quality 4x Scope – 3/4” diameter, as illustrated… $19.95” Maybe a Kleins ad writer was being a little tricky… and J. Edgar Hoover fell for it! Hoover saw the ad, announced within hours of JFK's murder that Oswald/Hidell had bought a $12.78 rifle with scope from Kleins, and that the handwriting on the order matched “Oswald's,” knowing full well that in the coming days his lab could fabricate all the documents needed to seal the deal. But his dumb mistake reading the ad helped us to finally collapse the whole house of carbines…. I mean cards.

Seems to me we're making this more complicated than it was. Even the public biography of “Lee Harvey Oswald” is clearly that of a low-level intelligence operative, a Marine Corps veteran, U-2 observing Communist who, during the height of the Cold War, freely travels to Russia, tells our ambassador in Moscow he's going to tell the Russians everything he knows, travels back to the USA facing no penalties whatsoever and then, shortly before the assassination, is granted permission again to travel to Communist nations. Who's kidding who here? Seems equally clear to me that the plotters handed off that low-level and now sheep-dipped intel operative to the cover-up-artists-to-be in New Orleans in the summer of 1963. In other words, the intel people running “the Oswald Project” put our boy in the loving hands of Banister and, therefore, Hoover, cognizant that putting “Lee Harvey Oswald” on the FBI payroll might make Hoover just a wee bit defensive after the assassination of a sitting president. (Gerald Ford did write that “Oswald” went on the FBI payroll in Sept. '62, but I believe that date was deliberately fudged.) The obvious reason for the hit was to blame it all on Fidel and therefore invade Cuba, but the plotters ran into a real problem when Castro's friend and gun supplier Robert McKeown smelled a rat and refused to sell rifles to “Lee Oswald” for laughably high prices around Labor Day of 1963. The rifle became arguably the weakest point in the otherwise brilliant plot. There were any number of State Secrets that the Warren Commission had to protect, but the two most important were surely: 1. That the plotters wanted to provoke an invasion of Cuba, and 2. The true biography of “Lee Harvey Oswald.” The real reason the Kennedy Assassination is so very relevant more than half a century later is that it gives a rare glimpse into just how far our National Security apparatus, and the news media that serves it, will go to preserve State Secrets.

Harrison Livingstone once wrote something like, “There is plenty of evidence against Lee Harvey Oswald at the National Archives, and all of it is phony.” The TRUTH about the Kennedy assassination certainly still matters to our nation, but no part of our Federal government will ever allow the fabricated evidence to be exposed, because doing so would show the world the methods our law enforcement agencies employ to achieve specific goals, and the ripple effect would be more like tidal waves.

Thanks much to DJ and Robert for posting their graphics. (Apparently, I used up my graphics quota here sometime in the middle of last year and haven't been able to post any more images since.) I think we should point out to skeptics like Bernie that the most of the evidence for two Oswalds is not based solely on the similarities between the two kids but more on the fact that the second oswald identified himself as "Oswald" or "Lee Oswald" or "Lee Harvey Oswald." In many cases, there is written evidence as well.

Now that you've brought up the subject yourself for the third time in this thread, Bernie, are you FINALLY willing to talk about the two Oswalds? Why not start talking about the EVIDENCE, rather than parsing my choice of words and calling me names? Tell us why the gunshot wound just above "Lee Harvey Oswald's" elbow disappeared in just a few years. Tell us how "Oswald's" height changed from 5' 9" to 5' 11" and then went back to 5' 9". Explain why Harvey Oswald, according to George deMohrenschildt, preferred to read Russian classic literature in the original Cyrillic Russian. Here some other pieces of evidence: Explain the IMPOSSIBLE 1953 school scenario: Harvey at Youth House for truancy followed by Beauregard JHS in New Orleans while Lee has good attendance both semesters at PS 44 in NYC. Tell us all about John Pic's inability to recognize clear photographs of his own half brother. Talk about the refusal of the Social Security Administration to corroborate the official story of "Oswald's" pre-1962 income, offering instead "Copies of three pages of the Warren Commission Report regarding employment of Lee Harvey Oswald prior to service in the Marine Corps." The Marine Corps records are a gold mine: give us a logical explanation for Harvey Oswald's trip to Formosa (Taiwan) while Lee was being treated for VD in Japan. Talk about the Bolton Ford incident while Harvey was in Russia. Prattle on about Marita Lorenz's secret testimony describing Lee Oswald with anti-Castro operatives in Miami and the Everglades while Harvey was in Russia. Explain how Lee Oswald visited the Texas Employment Commission, filling out forms and taking tests, while Harvey was in Russia. Answer these simple questions: Could Lee Harvey Oswald drive a car? Did he have a drivers license? Tell us all about the well documented appearance of Lee Oswald in the balcony of the Texas Theater soon after the murder of J.D. Tippit with the simultaneous arrest of Harvey Oswald on the main floor of the same theater. Explain the behavior of the FBI in the first 48 hours of the "investigation," during which the Bureau confiscated many of "Lee Harvey Oswald's" school records and employment histories. Six months later, the Bureau decided to test for fingerprints on boxes in the so-called "sniper's nest."