Jim Hargrove

So, we are supposed to believe that Honest Ken Croy arrived in time to see Tippit loaded into the ambulance, talk to a lady witness for 10 minutes, find a second Oswald wallet (Ted Callaway said, "I'll tell you one thing, there was no wallet at the scene. If there were too many people would have seen it."), and then wait around for 1/2 hour (until approximately 1:40 PM) for Capt. Westbrook to arrive and give him the second wallet? Minutes later, when all police officers hurried to the Texas Theater we are supposed to believe that Croy had more important things to do, such as meet his wife for lunch (now late by 1 hour). Would anyone care to explain why neither Croy nor Westbrook nor any police officer at 10th & Patton wrote a report concerning the second wallet "found" at the scene of the Tippit shooting. Would anyone care to explain why neither Honest Ken nor Westbrook mentioned the second wallet during their WC testimony, or to Chief Curry, or to the HSCA, or to news reporters? Would anyone care to explain why this vital piece of evidence was not entered into evidence by either Westbrook or Honest Ken? Would a lawyer on this forum please explain the consequences of police officers withholding a vital piece of evidence and then destroying that evidence (the second wallet that was allegedly "found" at the scene of Tippit's murder)? Can anyone offer a reasonable explanation as to why Honest Ken and Capt. Westbrook's possession of a second wallet AT 10th & Patton does not scream "PLANTED EVIDENCE" AND "COVERUP" ??

I believe he said that he made heroic efforts to grab Ruby by the coattail and put an end to his attempt to silence Oswald and befuddle American history for more than half a century. Judge for yourself here: https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340065/ Remember, though, that the Tenth & Patton wallet didn't officially exist for thirty years. Hosty and Bob Barrett spilled the beans, but nobody took it seriously until that WFAA footage resurfaced. Amazing that a wallet of vast historical import can be filmed on a public city street, and simply disappear for decades. (Did it just scream "planted evidence" that a guy would shoot a cop at point blank range, walk back and shoot him again, and then leave his wallet at the scene?) Here's where we seem to stand: 1) Croy was there moments after the shooting. (Virginia Davis, who said officers were already "there" and Croy's testimony to the WC). Also, Mrs. Holan said that after looking at Tippit laying in the street the man walked back to the police car as the car was backing up--was Croy driving the car at that time? -or- 2) Croy was never at 10th & Patton (no witnesses mention him; no police reports mention him; Croy himself failed to notify Chief Curry that he had been at 10th & Patton. 1A--If Croy was there moments after the shooting he (and Westbrook) was most certainly part of a conspiracy to murder Tippit -or- 2A--If Croy was never at 10th & Patton, then he was involved in a conspiracy (with Westbrook) to blame Harvey Oswald for the murder of Tippit by stating that he was the person who found the second wallet and gave the wallet to Westbrook. There is no innocent explanation for Croy stating that it was he who found the second wallet and gave that wallet to Westbrook. Bump.

I believe he said that he made heroic efforts to grab Ruby by the coattail and put an end to his attempt to silence Oswald and befuddle American history for more than half a century. Judge for yourself here: https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340065/ Remember, though, that the Tenth & Patton wallet didn't officially exist for thirty years. Hosty and Bob Barrett spilled the beans, but nobody took it seriously until that WFAA footage resurfaced. Amazing that a wallet of vast historical import can be filmed on a public city street, and simply disappear for decades. (Did it just scream "planted evidence" that a guy would shoot a cop at point blank range, walk back and shoot him again, and then leave his wallet at the scene?) Here's where we seem to stand: 1) Croy was there moments after the shooting. (Virginia Davis, who said officers were already "there" and Croy's testimony to the WC). Also, Mrs. Holan said that after looking at Tippit laying in the street the man walked back to the police car as the car was backing up--was Croy driving the car at that time? -or- 2) Croy was never at 10th & Patton (no witnesses mention him; no police reports mention him; Croy himself failed to notify Chief Curry that he had been at 10th & Patton. 1A--If Croy was there moments after the shooting he (and Westbrook) was most certainly part of a conspiracy to murder Tippit -or- 2A--If Croy was never at 10th & Patton, then he was involved in a conspiracy (with Westbrook) to blame Harvey Oswald for the murder of Tippit by stating that he was the person who found the second wallet and gave the wallet to Westbrook. There is no innocent explanation for Croy stating that it was he who found the second wallet and gave that wallet to Westbrook.

I'd like to know the answer to that, too. Interesting, though, that Westbrook was Director of Personnel for the DPD. I'll bet he had considerable say on who would be where on a day-to-day basis.

Croy admitted it in both his Dec. 1 Affidavit and in his Warren Commission testimony. (There were simply too many potential witnesses in the basement to risk denying it.) Croy's WC testimony is almost identical, right down to the references to Dear Old Dad. Amazing how he could remember this so well and virtually nothing else. Also, Sandy, in another post you are not accurately representing what John Armstrong has written. If you read his "November 22, 1963" piece again, you might be able to answer a number of your own questions. Coming to grips with everything in that essay isn't easy... believe me, I've probably read it six times but I still need to go back to it from time to time. Why not give it another shot? (Ahhh, poor choice of words.) November 22, 1963

Sandy, John and I believe that Croy was at Tenth & Patton BEFORE Tippit was killed, sitting in a car driven by Captain Westbrook which was hidden in the narrow driveway between 404 and 410 E. Tenth, then blocked on Tenth by Tippit's patrol car. Look at the aerial photo below and see how narrow that driveway was. Only Mrs. Holan, in the second floor of the house directly across the street, was able to see over Tippit's car and down the narrow driveway. The plan to pin everything on the brown-shirted Oswald now in the Texas Theater could only proceed when it was confirmed that Tippit was dead. That's why Westbrook was there. (Tippit and the white-shirted Oswald appeared to know each other. It wouldn't do for Tippit to wake up in a hospital bed and start talking about the guy who shot him.) After Westbtrook determined Tippit was dead, he left Croy at the scene (perhaps at first hidden in the driveway) and drove to meet white-shirted Oswald to obtain the evidence that would soon be used to frame the brown-shirted Oswald. Out of Westbrook's car, and still hidden--or no--in the driveway, Croy did not have a police radio in hand. Either way, bystanders would neeed to call police. ----------------------- Croy's whole saga of eating with his estranged wife is laughable. Here's how John described it on my website: Croy told the WC that he was driving his car in downtown Dallas when he heard about the shooting of the President over his police radio. Minutes after the shooting, while driving past the court house, Croy saw police officers and asked if they needed any help. According to Croy, these officers said "no." Croy then said his wife (estranged) pulled up beside him driving her car and asked if he wanted to get something to eat. They agreed to meet at Austin's Bar-B-Que in Oak Cliff. This was Sgt. Croy's testimony, but it makes no sense. Croy was unable to identify the police officers who were standing in front of the court house. Croy said nothing about the large crowds in and around the court house, less than a block from the TSBD, on the most infamous day in Dallas history. Why would police officers decline Croy's offer to help, when off-duty police were being called at home and asked to return to duty? Why would Croy and his estranged wife allegedly agree to meet for lunch, only a few minutes after the President of the United States had been shot. Croy's testimony makes no sense, but it does give him an alibi that helps to mask and keep secret his activities and involvement with the murder of officer Tippit. Sure are a lot of coincidences in this sordid case.

Of course it would make sense. To encourage or reinforce Ruby. I imagine that Ruby standing there waiting with the task of shooting Oswald could use a little moral support. And from a public perspective what did it matter who was standing next to him, as the perps knew they could have Ruby execute Oswald on national TV and get away with it, as surely as they got away with blowing JFK's brains out in broad daylight? I mean, how many people have ever heard of officer Croy? Well said, encouragement AND [finally!] an actual report from Croy--not to the DPD but to the plotters--in the event Ruby failed. But it goes beyond this.... Police were instructed to allow only cops, authorities, and reporters with proper press credentials into the basement that day. Ruby fit none of those requirements, but someone let him in nevertheless. Anyone care to guess what Dallas cop might have let Ruby in?

And so we have Dallas Police Department Reserve Sargent Kenneth Hudson Croy, the first Dallas cop to arrive at the Tippit murder scene. He's the man, he says, who gets the infamous wallet (though he doesn't remember how) linking Lee Harvey Oswald to Alek Hidell and therefore to the rifle that murdered JFK. Since no ambulance driver or other onlooker at 10th and Patton saw the wallet, we must assume Croy found it very early in the game, probably around 1:10 pm. And then he kept it to himself for about a half hour. Until Captain Westbrook arrived, and, Croy recalls, he gave it to Westbrook. For that period of nearly a half hour, Croy shows the wallet to no one, nor does anyone else see it. (What's really happening, of course, is that Westbrook needed time to meet up with the Oswald in the white shirt who shot Tippit. From the white-shirted shooter, Westbrook probably got the wallet, the revolver, and perhaps the Eisenhower-type jacket. In the meantime, brown-shirted Oswald was already in the Texas Theater, no doubt looking for the contact he was told would holding a torn dollar bill matching one of the ones he was carrying.) But lets get back to the story Honest Ken Croy wanted us to believe. Soon after hiding the wallet for a half hour and then handing it to Westbrook, Croy leaves 10th and Patton to go have a leisurely lunch with his estranged wife. He just happens, blind luck, to drive right by the Texas Theater where he sees police gathering. He wont be needed, though, because he needs to talk to his wife. Apparently, Ken Croy is needed just two days later, on November 24th, Then he is stationed in the basement of Dallas City Hall at the very time Lee Harvey Oswald is led to his death. According to his affidavit and WC testimony, Honest Ken was standing right next to Jack Ruby, and actually talking to him, when Ruby lunged in front of Oswald and killed him. For a Reserve Sargent who wasn't needed at the very time Dallas Police dispatchers were frantically calling in off-duty cops, Honest Ken Croy sure managed to be in some interesting places. He sure didn't remember much, though. By all means read Honest Ken's WC testimony (Sandy published the link above). I don't think even Burt Griffin believed him, do you? And these WC attorneys got the Big Bucks for being... uh... not very curious. Honest Ken waited thirty years to recall that he was the guy who handled the infamous wallet and gave it to Westbrook. He couldn't seem to remember another damned thing or write a report about anything at all, but he sure remembered that! His story just has honesty written all over it, don't you think?

DELETED: Double posted accidentally.

Sandy, I'll have more time for this tonight, but if you read Croy's testimony you'd have seen that he told the WC that he watched as Tippit's body was loaded into the ambulance, which arrived within a minute or two of the shooting (it started, indeed, just a block or two from Tenth and Patton). In the 1990s Croy said that he himself gave the magic, disappearing wallet to Westbrook. This doesn't make you wonder just how involved this guy was in the Tippit shooting???

Another question about Reserve Sergeant Croy’s presence at the Tippit shooting... Croy, and only Croy, said that he talked to a woman neighbor who witnessed the shooting for about 10 minutes. But nobody, not a witness nor any police officer provided testimony or a report that mentions Croy (by name) at the scene. Virginia Davis said a police officer (who else but Croy?) was on the scene as she walked from her porch to where Tippit was laying in the street. Croy said that he watched as Tippit was loaded into the ambulance (prior to police arriving at the scene). Moments after the shooting Benavides got out of his truck, approached Tippit's patrol car, and tried to use the police radio. Where was Croy when this was happening? Why didn't Croy use Tippit's radio to notify the police dispatcher about the Tippit shooting? Where was Croy when Ted Callaway used the police radio to call the dispatcher? It would appear that Croy was at the scene when Tippit was shot and moments after Tippit was shot, but disappeared just prior to witnesses and police officers arriving at the scene. Croy's hasty exit from the scene may be the reason that Benavides gave the spent shell casings to DPD officer Poe. Croy and Virginia Davis are the only people who place Croy at the scene only moments after the shooting. Where is Croy’s police report concerning his presence at the scene of the Tippit shooting? Replies would be MOST appreciated!!

Yeah, it seems to be. My short-term memory isn't getting any damned better as I continue to not get any damned younger. Roger that, and you'd make a great coach! In fact, you've inspired me to try and reserve a few minutes each day to give your suggestion a shot. Thanks for the great assist of providing all the names of Domingo's kids. I'll start with the sons first, since their names surely will not have changed over the years. And I'll try to keep some sort of record of the first contact(s). If something really interesting occurs, no doubt WC loyalists will accuse me of coaching the kids so I can make Big Bucks being a Conspiracy TheoristTM. Thanks again.

From his description below, seems to me that Benevides saw at least some of the shooting incident, but I'd be interested in what others make of it. It may be impossible to determine how deep into the driveway the second police car was positioned. Doris Holan died in 2000 and her account comes from Michael Brownlow and Bill Pulte. Decades earlier, Sam Guinyard told Brownlow something similar. Some magazine like Playboy also published a letter from an anonymous source claiming to have seen a man walk from the driveway toward Tippit's body. Sorry to be so vague, but unless I'm forgetting something, that's really all we have to go on for the second police car. Interviewing Benavides' surviving family members might be helpful, but unless someone recalled him saying something specific about a second squad car or a man approaching the murder scene from the driveway, it might mean that Benavides' simply didn't want to involve his kids in something he himself felt was better avoided.

According to the 12/3/63 FBI report from R.H. Jevons to a Mr. Conrad printed in Myers' book "With Malice," none of the revolver cartridges had fingerprints. The includes the four shells recovered at the Tippit site, the four unfired bullets found in Oswald's revolver, and the five unfired bullet found in Oswald's pocket. So, this suggests that either the bullets were CAREFULLY loaded to avoid fingerprints, or that the fingerprints that were found didn't match the designated patsy's and were therefore "missed." If Tippit's murder was part of the plan to set up HARVEY Oswald, the need to avoid getting the shooter's prints on the casings would be obvious.

As the closest known witness to the Tippit slaying, Benavides may have been in a position to see the second police car—the same one Mrs. Doris Holan saw parked in the narrow driveway between the houses at 404 and 410 E. 10th. If so, he was in a position to see not only the person who shot Tippit, but also the individual who approached Tippit as he was lying in the street, as well as the police car. IF HE DID SEE THE SECOND POLICE CAR, AND THE MAN WHO GOT OUT OF THE SECOND POLICE CAR AND STOOD OVER TIPPIT, he would have immediately realized that at least some Dallas cops were complicit in Tippit’s murder. Is it possible that he was simply afraid to become involved in this kind of internecine violence? To me, it appears that Benavides' uncertainty regarding the identification of the shooter is far less important than the possibility that he was witness to DPD involvement in the shooting of Tippit.

It may be that the temperatures reached when a bullet is fired would vaporize all or most of the fingerprint oils left on the shell (although removing and palming the casings (s) would leave another opportunity for at least partial prints). But there is a full-grown elephant stomping on all these little shells and possible fingerprints, and that huge pachyderm points to this simple fact: American-born LEE Oswald (who Domingo Benavides thought looked like Russian-speaking HARVEY Oswald) shot Officer Tippet near Tenth and Patton at 1:08 or 1:09 pm. By that time, HARVEY Oswald was already inside the Texas Theater.

Ahhh. My bet is that our Tippit indeed knew Jack Ruby, who apparently was far more involved in the assassination than is commonly believed. Indeed! I'm forgetting things here. This is how John described the shell situation in his book: Empty Shells. Moments after the Tippit shooting Barbara Jeanette and Virginia Davis watched Lee Oswald as he removed shells from his pistol and threw them onto the ground. Two of the shells were found by Domingo Benavides, who put them into an empty Winston cigarette package and then gave the package to Officer J .M. Poe. A 3rd shell was found by Barbara Davis underneath a window on the side of her house near Patton (FBI #Q 76).65 This shell was turned over to George Doughty, head of the crime lab for the DPD, who was standing nearby. Between 3:30 and 5:00 pm Virginia located a 4th shell near the walkway to the door of her apartment (FBI # Q 75). This shell was turned over to Detective C.N. Dhority of the Homicide Division later that evening. NOTE: Witnesses to the shooting saw Tippit's assailant unload shell casings from a pis­- tol. But not a single one of the 4 empty shell casings, or any of the 6 live rounds of am­- munition taken from the .38 pistol, was found to have Oswald's fingerprints.66 This was because the person who loaded the pistol, and placed his fingerprints on the bullets, was not the man arrested by the Dallas Police. --Harvey and Lee, p. 892

Sandy, Benavides clearly said the man he saw resembled photos he'd seen of "Lee Harvey Oswald," but for some reason he didn't go to a police line-up (even though he had a high profile at Tenth & Patton). Wish someone here could recall whether he refused to identify him. Iirc, Benavides is on record having said something like he wasn't good at identifying faces, or something like that, which could be real enough or some sort of excuse. Wish a researcher had done a lengthy recorded interview of him. Now, I suppose, the best we can hope for would be to follow Tom Neal's suggestion to talk to his surviving siblings (if any) and his children.

That’s great work, Tom. Thank you! I haven’t been able to find a reply to Blakey from the Dallas ME re Edward’s date of death, but your work showing his and Domingo’s identical mother’s name pretty much clinches it, at least for me. “Benavides” probably is some sort of anglicized variant of “Benavidez,” as you suggest. Domingo Benavides is such a crucial witness! He was the closest known witness to the Tippit shooting and lived, according to your SS research, until 2005. Do you suppose any other researcher interviewed him? It’s impossible, at least for me, to keep track of all the books and articles out there. Anyway, when I was searching the Tippit and Benavides files at Baylor’s John Armstrong Collection yesterday, I came across the following document, which strikes me as fascinating. Have you seen this before? All kinds of interesting things above, but no's 6 and 8 really surprised me.

No, I don't. But I did some searching at the online John Armstrong Collection at Baylor and came up with this, sort of an original source doc on Edward: I'd never seen it before, but since there surely isn't another Edward Benavides relevant to this case, it seems to suggest Blakey either thought Domingo's brother died in Feb. 64 or was simply trying to debunk the rumor that he died during the WC's existence. Haven't seen the response from Dallas Medical Examiner, which could probably settle this issue. While looking in the John's Baylor files, I also came across another very strange HSCA document that I'll try to post a little later.

Ron, It does seem weird. There are some good photos showing at least part of the back of "Lee Harvey Oswald's" head while in police custody, and it is clear that his hairline in back was tapered rather than squared off, but to go from that to an assumption that Benavides might have exposed an "Oswald" lookalike project serious enough to generate personal threats seems like a real stretch. OTOH, I can't think of another explanation. I wish Penn Jones had offered a source for the alleged police threats against Domingo. The hairline description, though, is in Benavides' Warren testimony.

When he testified in March(?) 1964, Benavides even referred to the shooter as "Oswald" for the reason you stated. His brother wasn't shot dead until Feb(?) 1965. Thus, there was no need to coerce Benavides. So why kill his brother in a case of mistaken identity?Had Benavides changed his mind about the identity of the shooter? Tom There's controversy about the year his brother was killed. Penn Jones wrote this in 1/84 The Rebel mag: Domingo Benavides, an auto mechanic, was witness to the murder of Officer Tippit. Benavides testified he got a "really good view of the slayer." Benavides said the killer resembled newspaper pictures of Oswald, but he described him differently, "I remember the back of his head seemed like his hairline went square instead of tapered off . . ." Benavides reported he was repeatedly threatened by the police who advised him not to talk about what he saw. In mid-February 1964, his brother Eddy, who resembled him, was fatally shot in the back of the head at a beer joint on Second Avenue in Dallas. The case was marked "unsolved." Benavides's father-in-law J. W. Jackson was not impressed by the investigation. He began his own inquiry. Two weeks later, J.W. Jackson was shot at his home. As the gunman escaped, a police car came around the block. It made no attempt to follow the speeding car with the gunman. WC loyalist John McAdams says the correct year of Edwards' death was 1965, and he published a death certificate attempting to prove it, but "Benavides" is spelled differently on the certificate, as "Benavidez." Without more evidence, I'm not sure what to make of the year-of-death controversy. Do you know anything else? At any rate, though, from Penn Jones's description as well as Benavides' WC testimony, it seems pretty clear that Benavides' could have seen a man who looked similar to the "Lee Harvey Oswald" killed by Jack Ruby, but wasn't quite the same, especially from the back of his head.

Yes, yet another suspicious death. To me, though, the most interesting thing about Benavides’ testimony was that he seemed to genuinely believe the killer looked like the news images he saw of “Lee Harvey Oswald.” To those of us who know viscerally that there was something profoundly wrong with the WC’s version of both murders that day, observations like Benavides’ can be difficult to accept. To me, though, it’s just more evidence that the guy killed by Jack Ruby was set up to take the fall for both crimes by a fellow who looked enough like him to fool many observers, like those at the Sports Drone rifle range, Downtown Lincoln/Mercury, Southland Hotel, and Alice Texas. Obviously, anyone with at least half a brain who planned to assassinate a U.S. president would simply have to create a patsy. Otherwise, the search would be relentless and the plotters would eventually be captured. Or if you only want the Quote Box without the name and timestamp: [quote] This is the text that you want quoted. [/quote] This is how the message will appear when posted: If you have any problems with this, just LMK. Works like a charm. (The reveal codes icon at upper left was the secret that eluded me.) Thank you!

The guy closest to the shooting with the best view of it was Domingo Benavides. Mr. BELIN. You used the name Oswald. How did you know this man was Oswald? Mr. BENAVIDES. From the pictures I had seen. It looked like a guy, resembled the guy. That was the reason I figured it was Oswald. He described a man who was Belin's height (5'10") wearing a light tan jacket. But he also described the back of his head, and the hairline at back clearly did not match classic "Oswald's." Benavides' story, if you haven't read it recently, is pretty fascinating. Also, Tom, can you briefly tell me how to do the mutltiple quotes on this forum? I'd like to do some but can't figure out how to do it. Hope the news out of Orlando is better for the next decade or so. EDIT: Ooops! I should have said that Benavides had the best view of the shooting other than Westbrook and Croy.