Sandy Larsen

I said that very few witnesses placed the gaping wound on the top of the head. And those are the least reliable witnesses... the ones not expecting to see anything, but then saw brain flying for just a moment. The best witnesses are the Parkland Hospital professionals. And almost all of them said the wound was on the back of the head. You have absolutely no credibility on this topic. 10 x 6.5 is oblong in shape. The large triangular fragment is close to equilateral... in no way could it be described as 10 x 6.5. The two fragments are not the same. Nope. And I don't know where that fragment fit. Sgt. Stavis Ellis said that he saw a secret service agent take the fragment from a child in Dealey Plaza and toss it in the back seat of the limo before it sped off. Gerald Behn, Roy Kellerman, and Clint Hill all saw the fragment in the limo while in Dallas. It was found in the back seat by Sam Kinney as the limo was being transported back to Washington. He's the one who said it reminded him of a clay pot. Sam Kinney sent a message to Admiral Burkley informing him of the fragment and letting him know he was taking it directly to the White House. FBI agents met Kinney at the White House garage and took possession of the fragment there. Presumably they are the ones who took it to the autopsy. I don't know who returned the fragment to Dealey Plaza the following day because that is merely a part of my hypothesis... speculation designed to connect the known dots.

There was a serious breakdown in intelligence sharing between agencies. Even Steven Sund's department dropped the ball. According to this article: Sund told the lawmakers that he didn’t know then that his officers had received a report from the FBI’s field office in Norfolk, Virginia, that forecast, in detail, the chances that extremists could bring “war” to Washington the following day. The head of the FBI’s office in Washington has said that once he received the Jan. 5 warning, the information was quickly shared with other law enforcement agencies through a joint terrorism task force. But I don't see anything nefarious about it. It looks like a lack of planning to me. Appropriate procedures hadn't been set in place. However, once the riot began, there should have been no excuse for not bringing in the National Guard. The decision not to was just plain incompetence.

No, it really doesn't need it's own thread. It's very simple. Three autopsists who held Kennedy's head in their hands all saw a beveled entrance wound near the EOP (the bump that is low on the back of the head). And that is what was entered in the autopsy report. Then twelve or thirteen years later, a group of so-called experts for the HSCA claimed the hole was 4 inches higher, in the cowlick area. These guys didn't even have Kennedy's head... only drawings of photographs of it. And yet they had the nerve to say that the autopsists were all wrong. Funny thing though... the movement of that hole to the cowlick area magically solved the problem the WC had had with the trajectory of the bullet -- which didn't work at all for them. What amazing luck! <end sarcasm> You're skirting the issue, Francois. (Though I know you must. You have no answer.) EOP location or cowlick. Don't need to be an expert to understand. Holding head in hands, or looking at drawings. Don't need to be an expert to understand. Problem with trajectory. Problem with trajectory fixed. Don't need to be an expert to understand. Of course it was meant to deceive, Francois! It was meant to explain how a bullet from the 6th floor of the TSBD could enter the head down low at the EOP, and then change direction and exit from the top of the head! Just like when Arlen Specter moved the back wound up to make the Magic Bullet Theory work, the HSCA moved the EOP wound up to make that trajectory work. How anybody can be fooled by something so simple is beyond me. Maybe that's what happens when a person reads Case Closed... their thinking gets all mushy.

Yeah, right! LOL

Almost nobody said that. Almost all the witnesses said they saw the gaping wound on the back of the head. There were at least two entries of skull fragments. FBI Agent Sibert wrote of 6.5 cm x 10 cm one in his report. (I don't think he reported anything regarding the three triangular fragments.) For the HSCA, he said that a large fragment came in that was found in the limousine. That's the one I've been talking about. Sibert wrote this in a 9/1/98 letter to Vince Palamara: "...In answering your two questions, the head wound, which was called the fatal wound by the pathologists, was located in the right rear portion of the head. A piece of the skull was missing which was found in the limousine and brought to the autopsy room during the latter stages of the autopsy." There were numerous witnesses to this clay-pot looking fragment that came in late. These aren't "unknown" people. There is documentation on who saw and handled the fragment, and how it made its way to Bethesda. There is much more information regarding this fragment than there is on the three triangular fragments! The fragment was taken to Bethesda to give to the autopsists... naturally. My hypothesis is that it was brought in too late to insert it back in the skull. (Which is why the mortician had to place a rubber dam back there.) So neither the autopsists nor the mortician had any use for it. (Note: I believe that the purpose of the Bethesda autopsy and clandestine pre-autopsy surgery was to make it appear that all shots came from the rear.) Continuing on with my hypothesis... One of the coverup artists got this "brilliant" idea to return the fragment, or a piece of it, to the scene of the crime, Dealey Plaza. The idea was to plant it on the lawn in a location in FRONT of the limo. Somebody would discover it and, voila, they'd have a star witness saying that the fragment was found in front of, not behind, the limo. And therefore the shot came from behind. Unfortunately for the coverup artist, the person who found the fragment had close ties to medical professionals. And they unanimously identified the fragment as coming from the occipital bone. Doh! And the rest is history. If you carefully observe the Z film around 313, you will see that Kennedy's head was hit twice within a couple frames. The first one forced his head forward, and the second one back and to the left. The first one obviously is what entered near the EOP. It all fits together like a glove.

I don't think Chief of Capitol Police Steven Sund should have resigned. I think only the Sergeants-at-arms Paul Irving and Michael Stenger should have resigned, for not acting on Sund's requests for assistance from the National Guard. Which, of course, they did.

Which is precisely what I accused you of when I wrote this:

Spare me, Keven. Comparing Liz Cheney to a high profile Democratic politician has everything to do with the January 6 hearings. And calling her annoying, loud, and obnoxious, while comparing her to a pig, only serves to reveal your contempt for her participation in the hearings (What is it that is Ben Cole always calls Liz Cheney? A Cheneycrat?)

(I just added this to my Forum Tips & Tricks topic pinned at the top of the first page of the forum.)

If you don't want to see comments or PM's posted by a particular forum member, you can put them "on Ignore." To put a member on Ignore, first click on your avatar photo and name in the upper-right corner of the window. A popdown menu will appear from which you can choose Ignored Users. Upon clicking that, a window will open that will allow you to add and remove members from your Ignore List.

No need to read this topic or reply. I was just updating my FORUM TIPS & TRICKS topic, and this got unintentionally bumped. This will fade away from the first pages in a few days.

I think you are absolutely right, Pete. I think that the JCS (the generals) conspired with the CIA to get the job done. The CIA planned the operation, including the part of the plan to overtly make it appear like the assassination was pulled off by a lone gunman from behind. At the same time, the plan covertly implicated Cuba and the Soviet Union in the assassination. Only the government would see the fake evidence against them. The Mexico City shenanigans were at the heart of that part of the plan. The generals were hoping that President Johnson would approve of an invasion of Cuba, or even a first nuclear strike against the Soviet Union... something that they thought had to be done by the end of 1963 while America had the nuclear advantage. President Johnson instead decided to cover up the (CIA-planted) evidence of Cuban/Soviet collusion, and instead make Oswald the lone villain. Which was possible because of the overt part of the CIA's plan to make Kennedy's body look like it was shot from behind only.

Pat, As I said before, I firmly believe that the three fragments you speak of were a product of the clandestine surgery on Kennedy's head that took place before the official autopsy. The purpose of the surgery being to move the blowout wound to the top of the head, in order for it to be consistent with a lone gunman shooting from behind. Regarding the occipital bone fragment spoken of by Dr. Boswell and Dr. Finck, I have a hypothesis that neatly fits all the witness statements together. The pertinent part of that hypothesis relating to your question is this: I believe that the fragment was brought to the autopsy too late for it to be re-inserted into the back of the head. (Which is why the embalmer had to use a rubber dam at the back of the head to contain embalming fluids.) However, I do believe that the autopsists did study the fragment and could see that it included the other half of the EOP gunshot wound that earlier in the autopsy was missing. From the curvature of the fragment they could see that the beveling of the cratered hole was on the inside of the skull, thereby indicating it was an entrance wound. It wasn't till 1994 that Boswell said that the fragment was re-inserted into the skull. I think he was mistaken.

Note that I have now provided sources for all the the quotes in my OP.

They saw no such thing. Yes they did. See this thread, first post.

Here we have further proof that there was a large wound (hole) on the back of JFK's head, and therefore proof that the back-of-head autopsy photo is fraudulent. All three autopsists, Dr. Humes, Dr. Boswell, and Dr. Finck, spoke of an entrance wound near the external occipital protuberance (EOP), which is the bump low on the back of a head. Apparently, only half of this entrance wound was in evidence at the autopsy because the other half was on a bone fragment that was brought in later. By the time of the HSCA hearings, Dr. Boswell spoke freely of both the small entrance wound and the missing skull fragment adjacent to it. Apparently he thought it was no longer a secret. Dr. Finck was tighter-lipped. But he did slip up when testifying for the Warren Commission. Dr. Humes remained quiet his entire life, but did indirectly reveal the fragment in the autopsy report. Following are the autopsists' comments I've found revealing the missing fragment. You'll see that their purpose in discussing it was to explain how they determined the small EOP wound was one of entrance, not exit. The hole exhibited "cratering" on the inside of the skull, which means it was a wound of entrance. Boswell, HSCA: [speaking of the entrance wound ] "....because this bone was all gone and actually the smaller fragment fit this piece down here -- there was a hole here, only half of which was present in the bone that was intact. and this small piece then fit right on there and the beveling on those was on the interior surface." (Source) Note: Beveling on the interior surface indicates an entrance wound. Boswell as reported by Purdy, HSCA: "Regarding the head wounds [Dr Boswell] said the entry hole was only approximately half in evidence, the other half being part of the skull fragment which was brought in." (Source: HSCA rec # 180-10093-10430. Agency file # 002071, p. 9) Boswell as reported by Purdy, HSCA: "Regarding the head wound, Dr. Boswell said the wound was fairly low in the back of the head and that the bone was completely gone above the entry wound. He said that during the autopsy, a piece of skull fragment was brought in which included a portion which corresponded to the missing half of the entry wound in the head" (Source: HSCA rec # 180-10093-10430. Agency file # 002071, p. 6.) Boswell to Dr. Aguilar, 1994: “The defect – the wound of entrance was at the base of that defect and the shelving on the inner surface of the bone was half on the intact portion of the skull and half on that fragment that we received from Dallas and replaced.” (Source) Finck, WC: "In the case we are discussing today, it was possible to have enough curvature and enough portion of the crater to identify positively the wound of entrance at the site of the bone." (Source) Note: We know that Finck is talking about a fragment here. Because with a fragment, it needs to be big enough to see the curvature. The curvature tells the pathologist which side of the fragment is interior and which side exterior. Knowing that, the side the crater is on indicates the side the bullet exited. Note also that Finck talks about the portion of the crater on the fragment. The remainder of the crater is on the skull edge where the fragment fits. Finck Letter to Gen. Blumberg, 1965: "I also noticed another scalp wound, possibly of entrance, in the right occipital region, lacerated and transversal, 15 x 6 mm.. Corresponding to that wound, the skull shows a portion of a crater, the beveling of which is obvious on the internal aspect of the bone; on that basis, I told the prosecutors and Admiral Galloway that this occipital wound is a wound, of entrance." (Source) Note: Again we see portion of a crater. The remainder of the crater is on the occipital fragment that fit there. Finally, I need to remind you that what Boswell and Finck say (above) is consistent with the description of the EOP wound on the autopsy report. The word "fragment" isn't used in the report. But the fact that the hole (and beveling) is said to be on the margins (edge) of the skull implies that the hole is shared by two pieces of skull bone. Otherwise how could the hole be on the margins? Autopsy Report (Humes): "Situated in the posterior scalp approximately 2.5 cm. laterally to the right and slightly above the external occipital protuberance is a lacerated wound [in the scalp] measuring 15 x 6 mm. In the underlying bone is a corresponding wound through the skull which exhibits beveling of the margins of the bone when viewed from the inner aspect of the skull." (Source)

Since you think this thread is therefore a dead end, and is the end of the Harvey & Lee theory, maybe you will go away.

You completely ignored my first question. Understandably so. Only a WC apologist could believe that three doctors ALL saw a missing bone fragment from the occiput, and half of an entrance wound on the margin of the remaining bone, when in reality there was no missing bone at all and no bullet wound on the margin of the remaining bone. They all hallucinated. Just like all the doctor and nurses at Parkland hallucinated a gaping hole on the back of the head. Incredible.

I don't know how you can possibly believe that, given that I have just disagreed with the Elizabeth Bentley identification favored by most the party's here. But in some cases I defer to Jim Hargrove because he's the resident expert on Harvey & Lee. Moderators are allowed to have opinions as long as any resulting conflict of interest doesn't influence their moderation decisions. I have two other moderators I have to answer to. You're imagining things. I never shut anything down. The only thing I did was to stop your spamming of this thread with mostly irrelevant data. The caller to the Connecticut Tippits didn't state that HARVEY Oswald was in New York in the late 1940s. Don't flatter yourself. Even I knew about that communication before you mentioned it. It's in Armstrong's book. I haven't pursued it because, in reality, Oswald didn't even write to Weinstock... he wrote to the Communist Party headquarters in NYC IIRC. Weinstock just happened to be a guy who replied to it, thanking Oswald for his offer to help out with photographic work. It is something to keep in mind, but probably just a coincidence.

Dave, That spot of blood you're referring to in the cowlick area cannot be the entrance wound seen by Humes, Boswell, and Finck. First off, they all saw the wound near the EOP. How could they all be wrong abut that, let alone Humes alone being wrong? In addition, all three of those doctors said that they saw only HALF of a wound. The other half was on a fragment brought in later. In other words, they saw only half of the hole because it was on the margin of the bone. Even the autopsy report states this. How do you explain this?

I thought something seemed amiss when I wrote that. I was in a rush.

I never said the report should not be questioned. And I never said that other people should agree with my opinion*. I don't know what your problem is. But I do know it's an attitude that we would be better off without. (*An opinion based on sound reasoning, BTW. So you don't make a big deal about it again.)

No.

Francois, I have a question for you. Does it bother you at all that the HSCA moved the entrance wound that Humes saw near the external occipital protuberance up by 4 inches, to the cowlick area of the head? Don't you think that was an astonishing thing to do? Most CTers know the reason the HSCA did that. Do you?

Francois, That claim in and of itself doesn't matter much to me because it is just the memory of one witness and has no corroboration. I happen to believe that Oswald told the truth in his interrogation about buying a coke on the second floor, then taking it down and drinking it with his lunch. All before the shooting, of course. So if Oswald got change from Geraldine Reid for the coke, that would have been around 12:15 PM.