Michael Clark

57 minutes ago, Mark Knight said:

Phillips' unpublished manuscript is proof of NOTHING. NOTHING is verified, it never was published and it remains to be seen if ANY of it is true.

Yet you seem to take it as the Voice from Heaven, revealing all.

How do you KNOW that it's absolutely true?  Or is that just a leap of faith on your part?  This is The Education Forum. Educate us as to how you have PROVED Phillips' unpublished manuscript to be true. You say it's fiction, then in the next breath, you claim it's all true.  Are you sure you know WHAT you believe?

Agreed, Phillips was, foremost, a propaganda and disinformation guy. To use that story, a novel, in an effort to piece together the story that DAP is trying to hide is....... I don't know how to put it. I will say, Paul, that if it didn't work with your Walker-did-it CT, I would bet that you would not have used DAP's Amlash Legacy. It really has no place here. DAP never admitted to being Maurice Bishop, something that you admit. Why use his Novel.?

From Sparticus::

According to Larry Hancock, the author of Someone Would Have Talked, just before his death Phillips told Kevin Walsh, an investigator with the House Select Committee on Assassinations: "My final take on the assassination is there was a conspiracy, likely including American intelligence officers." (Some books wrongly quote Phillips as saying: "My private opinion is that JFK was done in by a conspiracy, likely including rogue American intelligence people.")

Jeff Morley also confirms Kevin Walsh's statement:

"I met Kevin a few times and liked him immediately for his frank and friendly style. He told me the remarkable story of how retired CIA officer David Atlee Phillips had confided to him his private view that JFK had been killed by a conspiracy “likely involving U.S. intelligence officers.”

http://jfkfacts.org/rip-kevin-walsh-catalyst-for-jfk-disclosure/#more-2258

George, this thread is a worthy read with regard to your post. It doesn't clear things up but it struck a note with me and raised a lot of questions.

Oswald may very well have been hanging around inside or outside or both, and had some freedom of movement during that 15-20 minutes. He had already been cleared by Truly to officer Baker and he had directed another officer to a phone. The "he's alright" might have gone around a few times between officers as things were tightened-up and sorted out. He only drew attention to himself by the fact that he turned-up missing at some point, when Truly or Shelly identified him as the only missing employee,

9 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

So, you deny a Marxist orientation?   Hmm.   Yet you see no difference between the CIA and the Radical Right?   Something's being hidden here.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

You sound like the Grand Inquisitor, Paul. It's dark and ugly.

Paul Brancato wrote:

Nuance ? How dare you? Marxist? What a limited, lines in the sand black and white world you live in. Nuance is something you have no clue about. To you left means Marxist. Wow. Grow up.

---------------------------------------

I was wondering how that might shake-out. As far as I can tell, the vast majority of the American left hasn't a clue about Marxism. Who reads Marx? Who gathers with Marxist friends? I have a BA, circa 1993 from a NYS University Center, and I had to scratch and dig a bit just to come away with anything other than a nightly news understanding of Marxism, or Communism for that matter. Two years later came Windows 95 and Political Correctness and and very different world, In the streets and in schools. Free-porn and cyber-sex were the wave of the future. Karl Marx was, with Julius Ceasar, Machiavelli and Louis the XIV, stuff found In those things called books.

For all his knowledge (and he deserves much respect) Paul does, at times, seem to paint a vase with a mop.

That said, I'll return to the subject and the reason that I bumped this post.

Wynne Johnsons story, and part 1 in the video series is perhaps a better place to start, is an extrodinarily charming story about 2 kids. The contrast with the historical crossroads that is the subject of the story is a phenomenal background to an interested party.

The sharpest point of the story, and a point that Antonio Veciana does not state and cannot recall, it seems, is that the encounter took place in a specific place, The Southland Center. That is the historical nugget that is added to the LHO-DAP-AV story.

Cheers, Mike

This is interesting enough for a bump. If some of the pics could be restored, that would be cool.

On 1/9/2017 at 7:49 PM, Michael Clark said:

deleted not helpful

The question as to the year of the formation Jennifer's Juniors, by Zapruder and George De M's wife is volleyed-about in this thread and left unresolved. Could it be that one word, "formed" could be over adhered-to, when "acquired" or "purchased" or even "joined" might be what really happened? Just a thought. 

On January 4, 2005 at 4:29 AM, John Simkin said:

This is a very important subject and probably deserves its own thread. I am therefore posting this message in two places. The reason being is these threats might well provide clues about the assassination and the cover-up.

 

Does anyone know where this other thread is?

I had wrote a short dialogue that was meant to be funny as well as make an observation. I deleted the dialogue and my observation is that:

Prayer-man seems to be chatting with Frazier. That would make sense as LHO probably knew Frazier best at the TSBD. Fraziers body language speaks to me as well. 

As an aside, I was reading a thread discussing the future, at that time, of the PM thread. The "provenance" of the Darnell film was called into question with no follow-up. I may have missed it in one of the threads. Can someone explain the provenance issue?

Also in that thread I saw that this is a research thread and I'll go to the appropriate thread to post from here out.

Cheers

Carfard is an interesting subject, but we digress from the topic of this thread.

30 minutes ago, Jeffrey Reilley said:

..... 

To be sure, Larry, says he was flirting with a the girl who called for the job. He wasn't in a position to hire, Jack Ruby would have done that. The hitch-hike adventure gives him several days for which obviously no substantiation could be given. I am surprised that there is not a thread on here for Larry Crafard. If there is one, then I missed it.

Lance, I did hyperbolize with my "literally thousands" comment. But the point stands. You make a point, however, that existing photos do tend to support the idea that few people had cameras on that day; perhaps that is why those photos survive. I never cease to confound myself with ideas like this.

I am a sceptic, but I am not cynical, thank goodness. Unfortunately, I am not courageous, or at least I have not been tested. None of these inquires fools good, or safe; it's certainly not wise to talk to people you know about it. I should just surrender, buy a TV and a thousand-channel-cable-plan, and adopt a favorite professional sports team for each season. This stuff is murky and bewildering.

21 minutes ago, Jeffrey Reilley said:

None of those actions seem logical in the least.

It's worth reading the WC testimony to get it all straight. 

A detail I'll add is the girl (not "coral"as I misspelled it) who spent hours on the phone with Crafard, said she was leaving on a bus in the morning, not saying where she was going, after calling about a job. The WC seemed to ask very few questions about all of this, except to ask "did she say what her measurements were?" (Paraphrased). ...... bizarre

The "all-night" phone call is what interests me the most. If it is not true, it looks like a story to provide an explanation as to why the phone was busy for so long that night.

There should be literally thousands of pictures of the motorcade, and people, all around the motorcade, at the corner of Elm and Houston. The fact that there are not, is as strange as the fact that it seems so implausible that they could be made to disappear.

I recall Marina O. testifying that she laughed when she saw him dressed in black to take the backyard photos. She laughed because she said that he never wore black. When investigators searched his belongings, they found no black clothes.

Joe Bauer wrote: "Larry Cafar?  Just not informed of this person."

My bad, it is spelled Larry Crafard. The more that I read of him, the more suspicious he seems. He worked in Ruby's Carousel Club until, 11-23-63. -He served close to LHO in Japan although I don't know how closely they were associated. italicized info is incorrect.

His timeline in the 24 hour period is worth looking into. He would normally wake up at 8 AM, at the Carousel to start the day. He states that on 11-22, he woke up late, when an en employee showed up and was blaring news of the assassination. He spent 4-5 hours on a phone call withe a girl who called the club, looking for a job at 11PM. When the call ended, Ruby called and told him to grab a camera, and that Ruby would pick him up. This is where they drive through town, take pictures of the "Impeach Warren"  sign, go to the post office, and a cafe. In the morning, Larry quits his job and hitch hikes to Michigan with 7 dollars in his pocket.

edit. Crafard do not serve in Japan with Oswald. I confused him with Roscoe White.

1 hour ago, Paul Trejo said:

Michael,

George DeMohrenschildt did not know Jack Ruby.   George was a Russian Expatriate in the oil business in Dallas, and so he knew lots of oil billionaires, as well as Lee Harvey Oswald -- so his story is certainly very colorful.  The same was true of many Russian Expatriates in Dallas, except most of the Russian Expatriates despised LHO intensely.   Only George DeMohrenschildt liked LHO, sort of.  

As for Michael Paine -- it's boring to say that his family was fabulously wealthy and well-connected.  CIA-did-it CTers always try to link great wealth with the CIA and go for the cheap shot.  It's boring.  They usually add that Michael's mother had a childhood friend who later became the lover of Allen Dulles.  As if that proves anything.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Just to clarify the Michael Paine link: Henry Cabot Lodge (and the Dulles Brithers) were major player in the United Fruit Company. JFK was interested in stopping the corporate slavery that was manifest in the Banana Republics. The Nixon-Kennedy debate makes that clear. It's not simply taking cheap shots at the wealthy.

On 6/18/2013 at 3:40 PM, David Andrews said:

Was Michelle Clark traveling with Dorothy Hunt on that plane? My memory is that they were coincidentally traveling to Chicago separately.

"Mrs. Hunt got on Flight 553 with Michele Clark, CBS Network newswoman, going to do an exclusive story on Watergate. Mrs. Hunt, Mitchell, Nixon - the story could have destroyed Nixon at the time. Ms Clark had lots of insight into the bugging and cover-up through her boyfriend, a CIA operative. In the summer of 1972, prior to any major revelations of Watergate, Ms Clark tried to pick the brains of Chicago Congressman George Collins, regarding the bugging of the Democratic headquarters. Ms Clark was sitting with Collins on the plane."

That quote comes from one of the article below the main entry. This would make quite a story or book, but it has been a very long time.

http://spartacus-educational.com/JFKclarkM.htm

On 1/13/2017 at 9:48 AM, Paul Trejo said:

Chris,

Joe was asking how many people had a dual connection to both LHO and Jack Ruby before the JFK assassination.

By unanimous consent, that was only Roscoe White.   Others are only debated.   Ron Lewis claimed to be one.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

 

 

1 hour ago, Paul Trejo said:

I'm with Bill Miller on this point -- if anybody argues for Prayer Man being Lee Harvey Oswald on the allegation that TSBD witnesses were lying -- then I reject that argument.

First, the TSBD witnesses were all honest -- even if they made honest mistakes in their TIMING.  I cannot find one who was lying, and I've scoured their WC testimony.   Also, DPD officer Marrion Baker was honest -- I find nothing at all to doubt in his WC testimony

(5) If not -- if advocates are claiming that Baker-and-Truly deliberately lied about their 2nd floor encounter of LHO, then I flatly reject the claim. 

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Paul, I respect your assertions as to the honesty of the witnesses. You are adamant and consistent about that. But I would like to ask if you think that threats, intimidation and misrepresentation come into play?

For me, one reason for the murder of Tippit and Oswald was to immediately inject fear into the population. The strange deaths that surrounded people and thrived in that era would have added to the fear. There are stories of goons in suits saying "you didn't see anything" and "that didn't happen". I'll cite the the story of Jerry Coley of the Dallas Morning News, who's story can be heard here, as an example:

I'm not sure if you agree but to many the WCR is in essence a lie, patched together with the statements of many good honest people. There was much that was, apparently, omitted from testimony and the police notes and reports are lacking much information.

I am just surprised that your statements rejecting theories and claims that assume that a great deal of prevarication is going on are applied with such a wide brush.

Cheers,

Mike

On 9/16/2007 at 5:34 PM, Michael Hogan said:

It is important to keep in mind the restrictive political and journalistic climate when The Minority of One bravely began publishing articles questioning the government versions of President Kennedy's murder. In those early months after the assassination it seemed that they (and The Nation) were the only ones asking the important questions. It's hard to imagine the pressures facing the editor Arnoni as he courageously published articles and essays giving rise to the first generation of American researchers. Other than these two publications, it was largely left to the European press to begin casting doubt on the official story.

Here are two groundbreaking articles that appeared in the January, 1964 issue.

Who Killed Whom and Why

Dark Thoughts About Dark Events by M S Arnoni

http://www.kenrahn.com/JFK/history/wc_peri...hom_Arnoni.html

Death of a President by Eric Norden

http://www.kenrahn.com/JFK/history/wc_peri...ent-Norden.html

Both authors demonstrate remarkable prescience. Almost fifty years later, their words are still important.

Thanks to Paul for compiling the list.

These links didn't work for me on my phone so am refresing/redirecting them.

The comment of Michael Hogan regarding the prescience of them is spot on. The MS Arnoni article has remarkably renewed relevance. The second By Eric Norden contains reports from the first minutes, hours and days after the assassination containing details and accounts which I have never heard and which were subsequently changed. Both were published in January of 1964.

http://www.kenrahn.com/JFK/History/WC_Period/Pre-WCR_reactions_to_assassination/Pre-WCR_reactions_by_the_left/Who_killed_whom_Arnoni.html

http://22november1963.org.uk/norden-death-of-a-president-part-1

I thought this would be an interesting topic to bump.

Hi Craig, I noticed this lonely old post out here and saw that you tended to it with an edit a few weeks ago; so I can see that you have not forgotten it. There are much more qualified people on here to answer your question but I figured I would chime in.

One thing that your post does not allow for is the possibility of two Oswalds. When I came to this forum a few months ago, and indeed this whole story, I would and generally now do avoid such ideas as fantastic and as a distraction. I have come to believe that the posiibility can not be ignored entirely. It may be a fact. And there seems to be no doubt that Oswald was impersonated in Mexico City, at least.

Oswald claimed that the backyard photos were a forgery. I can go on and on but, if you, even just as a hypothesis, accept rhe imposter story, many of your questions find answers, lonely puzzle pieces begin to fit, and a lot of the fog lifts. It's certainly worthwhile to work with the imposter theory if only as an academic excercise.

Cheers, Mike