Paul Jolliffe

Jim, This is where having a statewide library card comes in handy. In Michigan, no less than eight public university libraries have "A Piece of Tape" (McCord's book) to lend to anyone with a MelCat card.

Ain't it peculiar that just as the authorities get their hands on key photos and films, why "poof!" Those films just go up in smoke, accidentally damaged (with profuse apologies, mind you) forever! Huh. Just a coincidence, I guess . . . Here's yet another one: Note: on the Dillard Photos:The HSCA was requested by the SRI International to be allowed at a cost of $5,000.00 to enhance by means of state of the ark equipment to find possible hidden information within the negatives of the Dillard photos....of the TSBD...Dillard had custody of his original negatives, but he co-operated and turned over twelve of the negatives..four eventually being processed....SRI would not accept liability and made this clear...in early 78 the study resulted in the findings above. Unfortunately ,the negatives, particularly frame 24, "........became detached from the agitation apparatus and the gelatine was abraded during the time it was freely agitated without support"....in otherwords they ruined it.....they blamed it on a malfunction of equipment ...they extended apologies and regrets to the Committee and Dillard.... Robert Groden who was the HSCA independent consultant was asked to comment ..on the damage...He found that negative # 8 also had been damaged by a coating not originally on the negative...but now evident...negative # 24 suffered also from this problem...( this is the negative that showed the 6th floor window ) also part of this negative appeared to have had it's emulsion rubbed off from the film base....To a lay person, the negative looks terrible .....the emulsion on the negative appears to have run down and melted into a pool of taffy like, a pool below.... The left side of the sniper's double window in badly affected, though the lower part of the snipers window escaped serious damage ...the whole negative looked like it was worn and crackled...and in otherwords the negative also had a tear (hole) in it......Dillard in 1979 received back his damaged goods , and copies of the SRI report, and a letter and the Groden comments...Blakely lamely wrote Dillard that the Committee was assured the process was safe and regretted the damage...." These two historically signifigant frames had been irreversibly harmed by experts."....(12)

Jim, As I am sure you are aware (there are plenty here though who are not), the absolute proof beyond any doubt that the image is of a man in the far left - the southwest corner - window of the sixth floor in the uncropped Dillard photo is this: The Warren Commission published Dillard Exhibit "B", a cropped version of the original photo, one in which the extreme left edge of the photo was cut. The only imagery omitted was the window in which the shadowy image of a man (above) appears. There was only one reason to crop that photo - to hide the photographic disproof of the entire "official" - i.e. no - conspiracy - version of the murder. http://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/pdf/WH19_Dillard_Ex_B.pdf

Tony wrote "In previous topics, I've suggested the shooter seen by witnesses on the 6th floor was there to be seen. I also believe he let off at least one round . . ." Tony, I agree. A professional sniper relies on being practically invisible to passers - by. No, the 6th floor man with the rifle, witnessed by many, was deliberately making himself visible in the minutes before the shooting. (Now, his partner/spotter/radioman was far less visible, and was not meant to be seen by casual observers, although Arnold Rowland saw him.) The 6th floor man with the rifle was even projecting the rifle out of the window, so that just about anyone from any angle could see the rifle! He wanted to be noticed! George Michael Evica noted long ago the sound distinction between the first "explosion" and the subsequent shots. Many, many witnesses described hearing something that did not immediately register in their minds as the shot from a high-powered rifle. Evica guessed that there was something different about the nature of that first noise, and he guessed that it was intended to disorient, distract and confuse the Secret Service to prevent an effective response to the real rifle shots moments later. He even used the word "cannon", although he was writing metaphorically. (Nobody actually fired a cannon at the president. It just sounded that way, maybe.) Maybe Evica was right. Other writers posed that the first shot perhaps was under-powered, thus explaining the shot that apparently only penetrated the president's back by an inch or two before disappearing (supposedly.) I don't know enough about the sound a defective bullet might make, but that theory sounds vaguely possible to me. Is there anyone here who can reliably inform us as to the sound a defective bullet might make? Could that explain the difference in sound so many witnesses noted?

Jim, I absolutely agree that the conspirators had to control the autopsy findings, and of course, they did. We know who controlled the autopsy - high ranking members of the United States Armed Forces, most of whom seemed to be Navy Admirals. The Surgeon General of the USN, Vice Admiral Edward C. Kenney and Rear Admiral Calvin B. Galloway, the commander at Bethesda were in charge, according to Pierre Finck's New Orleans testimony. Were others present, such as USAF Chief of Staff, General Curtis LeMay there as well? Probably. Ought that tell us something about the nature of the conspiracy itself?

Found that photo! It appeared on the first page of the story "The Assassin" by Ben H. Bagdikian in the December 14, 1963 issue of the Saturday Evening Post, pages 22 - 29. Note that the caption reads "From the same building where Oswald lay in ambush, a telescopic lens constructs an approximation of what the killer saw at the moment of tragedy" . . . Now, why would anyone believe that the "killer" was in the Dal-Tex building? (Unless a shot really had been fired from that window. Which, as I pointed out earlier, Harold Weisberg believed was a very high probability and said so in print over 52 years ago!) I don't know if this photo was taken by the Secret Service - it doesn't appear to be the same reenactment as seen in the "official" video below. We know about the Dal-Tex photo montage from Shel Hershorn, but I can't tell if this was from the same batch. If the photo was taken by a staff photographer for the Saturday Evening Post, then the obvious question is "Why that window in that building?" I mean, they not only failed to "approximate" the official floor, they didn't even get the right building! And this photo would have taken weeks after the assassination! No, the simplest reason this photo was taken, and the caption read as it does, is because the photographer and writer had been told that was where the assassin "lay in ambush", just as they wrote. One other possibility: this really is a Secret Service reenactment photo, and somehow, the folks at the Saturday Evening Post got their hands on it. But that raises even more disturbing questions, namely "Why did the Secret Service take a reenactment photo from that window (of all places!) and why wasn't this photo in the Warren Exhibits?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5nqVgujl9c

Well, we have the death certificate from Admiral Burkley, JFK's personal doctor - the only man in the world who was: 1. riding in the motorcade and was an eye and ear witness 2. present throughout all of the desperate attempts to save JFK at Parkland Hospital 3. flew to Washington D.C. with the president's body aboard Air Force One and 4. present throughout the entire autopsy at Bethesda Naval Hospital so naturally the Warren Commission did not call him as a witness! (Way to go Warren Commission! Way to "investigate" the murder of the president of the United States! That's a lot of high-priced lawyering in action, right there!) (Sorry about that. I tend to go off on the arrogance/incompetence/deceit of the Warren Commission members and their staff attorneys/lackeys/lickspittle yes-men/flunkies.) Anyway, as you may know, Burkley's death certificate showed the president suffered a back wound "at about the level of the third thoracic vertebra" - in other words, in the president's back! Not the neck! Why didn't the WC call Burkley as a witness? Because he didn't believe that only one shooter could have done all the damage to the president! Burkley was too high-powered to ignore as a witness if he testified about what he saw, so of course they didn't dare call him! https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/arrb/master_med_set/md6/html/Image0.htm https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/arrb/master_med_set/md6/html/Image1.htm https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/numbered_files/box_23/180-10086-10295/html/180-10086-10295_0002a.htm

Oh I am not sure any shots had actually struck JFK before the throat wound. It would seem that at least one shot was fired - and missed - before the throat wound. Of course, since the limo was out of Zapruder’s sight behind the sign for a moment, it is possible the president had already received his back wound by Z - 225, when it re- emerges. But that is just a possibility, not a certainty.

John, I actually had the privilege of chatting on the phone with Harold Weisberg several times over the final decade of his life (although I never got to meet him in person) and I remember a conversation with him about that very topic - he even placed a blow-up of the suspicious figure behind the fire escape in the Dal-Tex on the inside cover of his “Whitewash II - the FBI and Secret Service Cover-Up.” On a related note, I remember seeing 25 years ago a Secret Service re-enactment photo taken from the third floor (not the sixth or seventh floor, nor the roof) of the Dal Tex, looking west down Elm. Does anyone else here remember such a photo taken from a LOW floor of the Dal Tex?

Tony, I believe Clint Hill is telling it as he remembered it, but “we came out of the curve and began to straighten up” is not a precise location. Since we are talking about only a matter of feet here, it would have been nice (and essential, if the Warren Commission were conducting a real investigation instead of cover-up) if we knew exactly where Clint Hill was when he heard the first shot. I mean, surely you don’t believe that Clint Hill heard nothing until the moment shown in Altgens 6, do you? After all, by that time, the shot (or shots) had already struck JFK! They would have been fired while the limo was somewhat further east, but again, thanks to the Warren Commission’s incompetence (deceit, actually), we just can’t really say exactly where. All I pointed out was that a number of witnesses believed that the first shot - which missed the limo - was fired as the limo was completing its turn onto Elm. Further, the incredible, “accidental” mis-handling of the films that would have shown the limo at that moment heightens my suspicion that the very first shot was fired just as the limo turned right in front of the TSBD.

Jim, Fair enough - Truly may have lied to the reporter. Alternatively, once he was away from the spotlight of the Warren Commission and the need to "coordinate" stories, he may have let the truth slip out. I think we both agree that Truly was a very slippery and suspicious character, and trying to parse out the truth from his conflicting statements is a difficult business. I think we both agree that because Truly set the dogs loose on "Oswald" so soon after (allegedly) vouching for him, Truly was a witting part of the conspiracy to frame "Oswald." Jim, I must also confess that part of my suspicion about the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter comes from a careful reading of Jesse Curry's book "Jesse Curry's JFK Assassination File" as he recounted the episode. Not once did Curry mention Baker by name! In a book filled with praise for various minor members of the Dallas Police Force, Jesse Curry downplayed, minimized and virtually ignored the remarkably brave and correct actions of the first DPD officer in the TSBD! (Allegedly.) Why did Jesse Curry ignore Marrion Baker? Why did Jesse Curry minimize the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter? I am not making this up - it reads as if Jesse Curry himself gave no credence to the event, and wanted to distance himself from it as much as possible. That is what first raised my hackles - something was wrong with the "official" narrative, and Jesse Curry knew it. I suppose I should do a separate thread on this. I may be one of the few here who not only owns a copy of Curry's book, but has actually read it in its entirety. Jim, I completely respect your opinion on the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter, and therefore, the need to have Truly and Baker running up those stairs out front right away. You may be right, but I don't think the evidence is as persuasive as you apparently seem to believe. I believe there is room for doubt about the timing about that run, and perhaps that is where we should leave it for now.

John, Maybe I missed it, but where did Mary Hollies claim that "Oswald" had approached her on a bus? What bus, when, and where? I assumed, perhaps mistakenly, that "Oswald's" bus encounter with a woman named "Mary" was limited to Mary Bledsoe, but if there is a statement from Mary Hollies somewhere that she, too, met "Oswald" on a bus and they conversed about communism (or whatever), then I'd like to read it. Can you provide a link to Mary Hollies, "Oswald" and the bus?

Good question, Tony. My answer is speculative, but I bet you and I agree on this: the most important consideration for the conspirators was to make sure that the president was dead, and if that meant firing from multiple locations, then so be it. The pre-selected patsy be damned - JFK had to be dead before the limo left Dealey Plaza. A wounded - but not dead - JFK would have been in charge of all of the federal investigative machinery to catch all of the conspirators, and they would have been caught, tried and convicted. No, the only objective for the conspirators was to kill - not wound, not incapacitate, not scare, not maim, not intimidate - but to kill the president. Anything less was a total failure on their part. (Was this why there were printed rumors that Curtis LeMay's plane had crashed on 11/22/63? Part of a pre-planned cover had the assassination failed?) So yes, I think it is probable that JFK's throat wound was one of entrance, but I am not 100% certain. Of course, thanks to the colossal failure to dissect the throat wound at the autopsy, none of us can be sure what that wound was. For what it's worth, it should be obvious that had the first shot hit and killed JFK just as the limo turned onto Elm, then none of the subsequent shots would have been necessary, including those from the front. The Tina Towner film has unmistakable evidence that the president involuntarily ducked to his left, winced and pulled his right hand back sharply just as the limo was completing its turn onto Elm. That is precisely the time that multiple witnesses claimed that a shot missed the limo, and some even claimed to have seen the missed shot strike the pavement at that moment. (I think it is likely that shot came from the Dal-Tex, quite possibly from the third floor open window, partially obscured by the fire escape. But I am not certain.) That spot, right in front of the TSBD, was the ideal location for a 6th floor patsy/sniper. So, yes, the conspirators wanted to frame "Oswald" for the crime. But the most important objective, the only one that really mattered to them, the only one that allowed for their very survival, was to make sure JFK was dead on the spot.

Jim, As I have pointed out repeatedly in the last 48 hours, Roy Truly himself told the Odessa American Newspaper in April, 1964 that he, Marrion Baker and Charles Brennan all had a conversation outside the TSBD before entering the TSBD. Truly was quoted as saying so right there in the article! Brennan said in his own testimony that he had a conversation with an unnamed Dallas Police Officer, one who was standing precisely where Truly said - again, in the newspaper - that the conversation was between himself, Baker and Brennan! I believe it is reasonable to conclude - Brennan so testified under oath - that there was a conversation between Brennan and a policeman outside the TSBD, and further - just as Truly admitted in print - that conversation was between Baker, Truly and Brennan. And, as I pointed out earlier, Truly testified under oath that there was a policeman right where Brennan said there was a policeman, right where Truly admitted in print that there was a policeman named Baker, and to where Baker appears to be running in the Couch film. (As others have noted for some time, Baker does not make a direct beeline for the steps, but rather is running past the steps in the final frames just before we lose sight of him. Note that I did not rely on the film evidence for Baker's pause (slim, but real) - instead, I relied on what Truly himself said!) Now about my contention that the frame-up was after the fact: Jim, I think you misread what I wrote: I was making a very specific point about the rifle evidence - the link between "Oswald" and the Mannlicher-Carcano rifle later alleged to be his was created after the fact! Of that, there can be no doubt! The order form from Klein's was created after the fact! The money order was created after the fact! That rifle was never shipped to "Oswald's" post office box, neither he nor anyone else picked it up, and there is no evidence from before the assassination to show that "Oswald"s box had anything to do with it at all! - all that was created after the fact! The bag in which the rifle was allegedly transported into the TSBD did not exist before 12:30 on 11/22/63, and it sure as hell was not created by "Oswald" - it was created after the fact! The infamous palm print did not exist on 11/22/63 (who said so? the FBI, that's who!) - created after the fact! The backyard photos linking "Oswald" to the Mannlicher-Carcano did not exist on the afternoon of 11/22/63 - created after the fact! All of the rifle evidence that was later used to link "Oswald" to the Mannlicher-Carcano was created after the fact!

Bart, In a nutshell, can you give me the abridged version of why Gary believes that all of John Connally's wounds occurred after the head shot? Of course, that is not what Connally himself believed and insisted to his dying day, so upon what does Gary base his assertion?

Jim, We agree that the primary patsy was "Oswald" and we agree that the conspirators framed him for the shooting and we agree that the police and the FBI were only to willing to along with the frame. But I think the primary concern for the conspirators was to get the sixth floor team out of the TSBD safely. The frame was imperfect - you and I agree that the Mannlicher-Carcano could not be traced in any legitimate way to "Oswald" and all of the evidence that it belonged to him was falsified. Furthermore, we agree that the rifle evidence - the money order, the order form to Klein's, the delivery to the post office box, the bag, etc. - was falsified after the assassination - and that is a key point! That tells us that the frame up could have encompassed any number of "suspects" after the assassination. They wanted "Oswald" to be the fall guy, but they would have taken anybody as long as the team from the TSBD made it out safely. (Personally, I think Buell Frazier was damn lucky to have been released from the custody of the DPD late that night.) As far as the Baker/Truly/Brennan encounter outside the TSBD, but before Baker and Truly enter, see my posts on Bart Kamp's thread "Anatomy of a Second Floor Encounter" pages 17 and 18. Jim, the gist of it is that Roy Truly himself in April of 1964 told a reporter for the Odessa American newspaper that Truly and Baker talked to Brennan for a bit before entering the TSBD. When we add in Brennan's WC testimony, it is clear that Baker did not immediately run up the steps to the TSBD. In Brennan's own words, Baker was "standing still." Further, I argued that there are clear hints in Roy Truly's WC testimony about that very encounter.

All well and good guys, except that we have it from Roy Truly himself that Brennan talked to Marrion Baker and Truly together outside the TSBD, before starting their "dash" up the stairs! Bart pointed that out in his thread that in the April, 1964 Odessa American, a reporter named Roy Bode got a direct quote from Truly himself: Truly said that he and Baker were approached by Brennan who "yelled" at them that the shooter was in the TSBD. Further, Brennan gave them a clothing description. That is what Roy Truly himself said in April of 1964 to Roy Bode, who then reported it in the Odessa American newspaper! I don't see what else there is to say, except that Roy Truly obviously didn't realize in April of 1964 just how tight the timing to frame "Oswald" really was, otherwise he would not have given the interview! Baker + Truly + Brennan outside the TSBD means that the Baker/Truly dash up the stairs did NOT happen immediately! I can't get the image of the newspaper interview to load, but look at Bart's Prayerman presentation, page 34.

Jim, I think you may have misread my skepticism about the McWatters' bus ride: I believe you and I agree that "Oswald" was on the bus, albeit mighty briefly. No, my skepticism was about the presence of Mary Bledsoe on that same bus during the ride with "Oswald". I completely agree that the Stuart Reed photos of the McWatters bus stuck in traffic on Elm, east of the TSBD, are a part of conspiratorial photo montage, designed to illustrate the entire "official" story. The only way for Reed to have taken those photos was as part of an assignment, one about which he may (or may not) have been fully cognizant. The fact that he seemingly fled out of the country almost immediately afterward is, I believe, a clue that he was terrified that he had been caught up in something very evil. Further, I believe that Roy Milton Jones' statement about the search of that bus was proof of a quiet plan to kill the patsy before anyone was the wiser - if "Oswald" was dead on the McWatters' bus within a few minutes of the assassination, I bet the conspiracy would have been successfully covered up. As to Dorothy Garner,, thanks to the Warren Commission's failure to call her as a witness, we don't know how long it was before she actually saw Truly and the policeman come up the stairs. We don't know exactly what she did or did not witness on any floor. We don't know what she had to say. All we know is that Victoria Adams and Sandra Styles had descended the stairs sometime before Truly and (Baker) came up. As I noted an hour ago on a different post, there is a powerful reason to believe that Marrion Baker did not immediately rush into the TSBD. That, in fact, he was "standing still" outside the TSBD for some unspecified period of time before entering. But that is a separate post. The William Whalley cab ride is a curiosity about which I do not have a firm opinion for now, although I am inclined to believe it. About "Oswald's" presence on the steps, I agree that it was better for the conspirators to keep him out of sight in order better to frame him for the shooting. But I don't think it was absolutely essential to them - he could always be charged as an accessory, an accomplice, part of a larger plot if they could not pin the actual shooting on him. As we know, the Dallas Police did come mighty close to charging Buell Frazier, and I bet they had some other "suspects" lined up, just in case. In any event, "Oswald's" presence at the top of the steps was probably the result of a spontaneous decision on his part - he said so in his first interrogation: "he wanted to see what all the excitement was about" . . .

Bart, I have to tell you, your find of the Truly quote/explanation in the Odessa American newspaper from April of 1964 is remarkable. In it, Truly verified what Charles Brennan implied to the Warren Commission: that Brennan ran across Elm to the front of the TSBD and spoke to Marrion Baker - outside the TSBD, before Baker made his "run"! Brennan only approached his unnamed DPD cop after realizing that the police search was concentrating on the rail yards, west of the TSBD. This, of course took time, and Brennan wanted to alert the authorities to the presence of the gunman on the sixth floor. In his words: Mr. BRENNAN. I knew I had to get to someone quick to tell them where the man was. So I ran or I walked--there is a possibility I ran, because I have a habit of, when something has to be done in a hurry, I run. And there was one officer standing at the corner of the Texas Book Store on the street. It didn't seem to me he was going in any direction. He was standing still. Mr. BELIN. What did you do or what did you say to him? Mr. BRENNAN. I asked him to get me someone in charge, a Secret Service man or an FBI. That it appeared to me that they were searching in the wrong direction for the man that did the shooting. And he was definitely in the building on the sixth floor. " From the April, 1964 Odessa American interview with Roy Truly, here is his version of the Truly/Baker encounter with Brennan: "The man (Brennan) was standing on the wall of a monument near Elm Street. He looked toward the building and saw the killer aiming the rifle. The shots were fired and he ran across the street where the policeman and I were standing" Truly said. "He yelled to us that the man was on the fourth floor and told us what kind of clothes he was wearing. I understand he later identified Oswald as the killer at police headquarters." Bart, this encounter between Truly, Baker and Brennan destroys the Warren Commission version of events. Yet it is confirmed by Truly himself! Baker did not immediately run into the TSBD! He was "standing still" outside! I believe in Truly's testimony there is even a hint of that encounter: "Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do or see? Mr. TRULY. I heard a policeman in this area along here make a remark, "Oh, goddam," or something like that. I just remember that. It wasn't a motorcycle policeman. It was one of the Dallas policeman, I think-- words to that effect.I wouldn't know him. I just remember there was a policeman standing along in this area about 7, 8, or 10 feet from me.But as I came back here, and everybody was screaming and hollering . . . " "Everybody was screaming and hollering" was similar to what Truly told the newspaper in April about how Brennan "yelled" at Baker and Truly. Further, note how Truly went out of his way in his Warren Commission testimony to make sure everyone knew that he, Roy Truly, could not identify the unnamed Dallas cop who was "standing along in this area about 7, 8 or 10 feet from me." Roy sure wanted us to know, though that "I wouldn't know him . . . it wasn't a motorcycle cop". Of course not, Roy. We all believe you and everything you say . . . Bart, am I correct that in Truly's Warren Commission testimony there are clear hints as to the truth about Baker's entry into the TSBD?

Bart, Can you clear something up for me? I just read all of your post, and I appreciate all of the hard work you put into this. So, did Marrion Baker actually run up into the TSBD as implied (but not actually seen) in the Weigman and Couch films, or not? You spent some time on the topic and raised some excellent reasons to wonder, but I don't see a definitive statement one way or the other. If he did not, then where the heck did he go? Or, did he actually enter quite a bit later (5 - 10 minutes later, maybe?) I mean, surely the whole "we searched the roof of the TSBD" story is based on a real search, right? The timing may be off, from the perspective of the WC narrative, though. And that, of course, screws up their attempt to pin it on "Oswald" - if Baker and Truly did NOT confront "Oswald" in the 2nd floor lunchroom shortly after the shots, then "Oswald's" alibi - he was on the first floor at the time of the shots - would remain intact. Therefore, from the WC view, it was crucial to get Baker and Truly up to that 2nd floor lunchroom ASAP. Which meant Baker had to enter immediately, from the WC no-conspiracy point of view. So, did Marrion Baker actually run up the steps of the TSBD and race up the stairs with Truly within 30 seconds after the shots, or not? Why does the motorcycle cop in the Weigman and Couch films appear to be passing the front steps, or at least, not taking a direct route to them?

John, I think you are confusing Mary Hollies (TSBD employee who supposedly conversed with "Oswald" as he took an elevator UP to the sixth floor!) with Mary Bledsoe ("Oswald's" landlady - maybe - for one week in early October, prior to his move to the room at 1026 N. Beckley. She is the one who claimed that the "Oswald" she recognized on McWatters' bus was our man, LHO. Actually, there is good reason to doubt that she was even on that bus until AFTER the man later alleged to be "Oswald" departed that bus. There is even reason to wonder whether "Oswald" ever rented a room from her at all. But that is a separate thread . . . ) As to what "assignment" "Oswald" had been told was his task at the TSBD, we can only speculate. Unknown to him, his real job at the TSBD was to be in position to be "patsified" on 11/22/63. Peter Dale Scott has speculated that "Oswald" may have been told that his job at the TSBD was part of an investigation of Joe Molina, a man with the audacity to belong to a (perceived) left - leaning veterans group. Molina was indeed fired a month after the assassination for generally being a lefty.

Jim, I agree completely - we are to believe that 48 years after the fact a witness (known to and interviewed by the FBI!) suddenly emerges who can place “Oswald” on the sixth floor and who locks up the freight elevator? Not a chance in hell! Mary Hollies’s 2011 alleged statements about her “Oswald “ encounter are a fabrication by a xxxx or XXXXX and should be disregarded by anyone with any sense of what constitutes reliable and valid evidence. On a different note, Jim, I realize that the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter is a dicey topic, but I am currently persuaded that it did not happen. For reasons too lengthy to go into here, I believe it was concocted after the fact by authorities desperate to move “Oswald” as far as possible from where he actually was during the shooting: on the first floor, just about to go through the doors of the vestibule, on his way to the top of the steps outside the TSBD, where he would be seen and filmed by Darnell some 30 seconds after the shots. Therefore Baker’s first day affidavit suspect description was not of Harvey, but that of a conspirator, one for whom Truly vouched. After all Jim, if the 2nd floor lunchroom encounter between “Oswald”, Truly, and Baker really happened within 75 - 90 seconds of the shots, then how could Truly even possibly point his finger of suspicion at “Oswald” around 1:00 pm if he had just cleared him less than 30 minutes earlier?

That it was the man in the white shirt - Lee - escaping via the passenger elevator is a distinct possibility. However, thanks to the incuriousity of the WC, we do’t have a description of “this man” who Sawyer “bumped into” as Sawyer was rushing to take the passenger elevator up around 12:34 - 12:37. You are right that it would have been crucial to get Lee out of sight ASAP after the shots. I agree that Baker’s affidavit rules out our “Oswald” as a suspect, especially since he was sitting and complaining in plain view of Baker as Baker wrote, yet he failed to identify “Oswald” as the suspect he’d previously encountered! The question remains though: just who did Baker encounter on the 3rd or 4th floor? Was it Jack Dougherty? If not, then we know that Roy Truly lied and vouched for someone who was not a TSBD employee, thus proving Truly was a witting part of the conspiracy.

Bart, see my comments previously up above.

Bart, Who wrote these notes, and when? They seem to be a mishmash of jottings from phone calls or conversations with someone who was telling the writer to whom to speak. I am especially intrigued by the writer's notation on page 4 about NSA Deputy Director Louis Tordella (1958 - 1974) " knows where the bodies are buried" . . . According to Stephan Budiansky in his book "Code Warriors", Tordella had sixteen boxes of documents in his office safe, which, when discovered after his death in 1996, " turned out to be a compendium of every single one of NSA's most highly classified, compartmented programs of the post-World War II era." If the writer of these notes was with the ARRB, then it is "unfortunate" that NSA Deputy Director Tordella died on January 10, 1996 (no autopsy). The ARRB wanted whatever he had, and the Navy provided Tordella's notes on the Warren Commission, but I doubt that was really what the ARRB was after. Too bad they could not depose the man himself. The writer of these notes had some idea of his importance. "The Review Board requested that NSA locate the original files of top NSA officials during the period of the Warren Commission (NSA Director Lt. Gen. Gordon Blake and NSA Deputy Director Dr. Louis Tordella). NSA located materials on the Warren Commission from files of Deputy Director Tordella."