Mark Tyler

19 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

Did you know that the original Wiegman film is 36.5 seconds long?

If you used a shortened version say Groden’s version(inset) for syncing, the missing frames occur after Wiegman starts but before his kneel.

Your time to his kneel is approx 20.75 seconds.

The original syncs this event at 24 + 8/30 = 24.26seconds.

24.26sec - 20.75 sec = 3.51sec = missing film

You can then convert those time differences in terms of frame rate:

24.27 x 24 = 582.24 frames

582.24 / 20.75sec = 28.05fps

That's right Chris, the original broadcast of the Dealey Plaza segments of the Wiegman film totalled 36.5 seconds.  The original NBC broadcast of the whole film (nearly 3 minutes) from mid afternoon on the day of the assassination is here:

The announcer said that the film was shown "unedited", which seems plausible as there was a fair bit of introductory footage, with the remainder being scenes from the Stemmons Freeway and Parkland Hospital.

The Dealey Plaza footage contained 3 scenes of about: 27.2, 4.3, and 5 seconds.  If we adjust to 28 FPS instead of the erroneous 24 FPS we get: 23.3, 3.7, and 4.3 seconds totalling about 31.3 seconds.  Therefore the kneel at about 20-21 seconds is about right because he cuts that scene just 2-3 seconds later.

Superficially the Wiegman film seems too shaky to be of value, but it is surprisingly useful due to its synchronicity with the last two shots fired and the Zapruder film.  It was shown publicly within hours of the assassination so there is no question of it being altered or suppressed.

Wiegman and his film have been extremely helpful to my work, and both deserve much more attention from researchers.  Wiegman's testimony is part of the proof that there was at least one shot after the fatal head shot, and his film has the potential to confirm or deny the authenticity of the Zapruder film timeline.

15 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

They do not pass the smell test.

The reason they do not is to hide the alteration of the extant film.

Plotted, using the location of known stationary objects and "JFK's head within the limo" as the marker.

As you can see, the limo was traveling at approx the same speed from(z136-z149) and CE884 (z168-186), disregarding the B.S entry of z168-z171 = 3.74mph.

And, coincidentally, adding 5.49 missing feet to increase your mph up to the splice(frame156.5) within a certain amount of frames, would match the same speed (14.65mph) as the plotting provides.

The other version of CE884 has the limo move .9ft in 5 frames = 2.24mph

You can't smooth this out.

The limo had to travel a certain distance (unaccounted for) above and beyond that .9ft. Overlooking this very fundamental concept is a mistake. imo

I'm genuinely baffled by how CE 884 came to be so messed up: I would assume incompetence, but as you say it could have been some kind of deception.  Either way, the most important lesson here is: "you can't make a silk purse from a sows ear",  which is why I make my own measurements from the films and photos.  This approach seems to result in a nice smooth pattern of acceleration out of the bend until the Limo starts slowing after the first shot.

I think its probably too difficult to take exact measurements of the Limo from the Zapruder film Z133-Z215 due to the angle of view.  Luckily we have other photos in this time frame: Willis 4 & 5; Croft 3; Betzer 5.  This makes measuring easier as we can judge positions more accurately from a perpendicular angle by using the fixed items in the background such as: trees; pillars; signs; lampposts; etc.  If you check the animation frame by frame and look at the yellow flashes, the photos should match up with the depicted positions.  Vimeo allows you to move the video when paused by using Shift + left/right arrow keys.  Its not quite frame by frame sadly, but 0.1 of second is probably good enough.  Using the left/right arrows without the shift key seems to move the video forwards or backwards by one second.

Since I started the project I have discovered no signs of frame removal.  As the Presidential Limo changes speed in the animation, it seems to match the expected values from 1963 as it accelerated and decelerated at various stages along Houston and Elm Street.  This includes the reduction of speed around Z313 which was reported by a number of the witnesses who were close to the scene.

I briefly thought there may have been a problem when I struggled to synchronize the Wiegman film with the Zapruder film: there seemed to be 2-3 seconds missing.  However, I eventually concluded that the Wiegman film was recorded faster than the usual 24 FPS for 16mm film cameras, which I explain in more detail in appendix C of the handbook here:

https://www.marktyler.org/mc63/mc63_handbook.pdf

Ultimately the only way to clear up the frame removal issue is to study the original film stock.  Sadly I doubt this opportunity will ever be offered to me, so I defer the final judgement on this issue to those who have had the privilege of studying the original film.

12 hours ago, Robert Burrows said:

I've placed an x under the motorcycle that proceeds in front of the T.S.B.D. 

If you study the next few frames you can see the white portion of the motorcycle disappear behind the leaves of the tree that blocks view of the dead end street.

That's right Robert, the bike ridden by W.G. Lumpkin is hidden between frames Z040 and Z131 (or 5 seconds) before it becomes visible again just as Zapruder stops filming.  In the animation the bike is turning the corner at about 9-11 MPH during this period.

The next time these 3 bikes appear is in the Bell film just after the assassination, when they can be seen in the distance under the bridge:

https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?pid=1461&fullsize=1

and then the McIntire photo about 10 seconds later:

https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?pid=149&fullsize=1

Throughout this sequence the bike was travelling about 11-13 MPH which is consistent for the motorcade, so all of photos and films corroborate the animation fairly well regarding how this bike travelled down Elm Street as it left Dealey Plaza.

15 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

Your mph designation for this span has the limo travel from 8.5mph (slowest) to 9.6mph (fastest).

This would equal an average of 9.05mph.

I've included Sprague's plotting for Z133 which I confirmed via my own plotting at Station# 2+99.0

WC CE884 plotted Z161 at Station# 3+29.2

The distance for these 28 frames = 329.2 - 299 = 30.2ft

You used 18.3fps as the frame rate for the extant Zfilm.

28/18.3 = 1.53 seconds.

30.2ft/1.53 seconds = 19.738ft per sec /1.47 (1mph-rounded off) = 13.427mph

At 9.05mph x 1.47ft per sec = 13.30ft per sec x 1.53 sec = 20.35ft traveled.

30.2ft - 20.35ft = 9.85ft distance traveled unaccounted for because of the difference in the vehicle speeds.

Chris, I suspect that the anomaly is mostly due to WC CE 884.  When I started this project I tried to use that table to calculate the Limo speed by putting the data into a spreadsheet.  I found that the Limo MPH values seemed to oscillate fairly wildly, which didn't make sense.  I concluded that there was something wrong with their measurements, so instead of using their data I used my own observations of the films and photos to place the Limo on the map at various key points.  The computer program then smoothly moves the Limo according to the clock for each of the frames.

This methodology is only an approximation of course, but the results are close enough to what happened to the Limo in 1963 as judged by the extant films: it catches the Limo slowdown around the Houston/Elm St. corner; the speedup for a few seconds until Z230; the slowdown around Z313; and the final burst of acceleration after about Z340.  In short, my measurements pass the smell test, but the Warren Commission measurements do not!

The other cause of the anomaly may be the minor differences between my map, the Warren Commission map (CE 585), and the Sprague/Cutler map.  However, these will be much less pronounced the the CE 884 issues.

17 hours ago, Andrej Stancak said:

Mark:

congratulations on your elaborate model, I find it very useful. I have two questions: 1. You do not seem to include slowing down (stopping) of the President's limo? I assume it is hard as there are no accurate data on that part of Zapruder film. Some frames are surely missing in Zapruder film, and this may confound the speed estimates. 2. The other question is something I could perhaps verify myself using your model, anyway, I would be grateful if you would provide an estimate. It refers to the time elapsing between the instant when Hughes filmed the President's limo just in front of the Depository doorway and the time when the doorway first appeared in Wiegman film. Thanks.

To answer your two questions Andrej:

1. I have the Limo slowing down from about 13 MPH at Z245 to about 7 MPH at Z313, which is less than 4 seconds later which I presume is the result of gentle braking after the first shot.  As I recall there was a frame or two of the Muchmore film around Z313 that suggests a brake light was lit while Clint Hill was running to the Limo (sadly the brake lights were mostly obscured by people and bikes so we can't be certain of the exact braking times, plus the Muchmore film started around Z280-Z285 so misses the early braking).  You can see the result of the Z313 braking in the Zapruder film as the bikes catch up Z313-Z334 before the Limo accelerates away and the bikes stop.

2. The Presidential Limo passed the front of the TSBD (from the Hughes film view) at around the clock time of 12:29:45, with the Wiegman film start time of 12:29:59, so the gap was about 14 seconds.

On the subject of Zapruder and Wiegman, I did go into some detail in the animation handbook regarding how you can synchronize the two in terms of frame rates.  It is in appendix C here:

https://www.marktyler.org/mc63/mc63_handbook.pdf
 

15 hours ago, Chris Davidson said:

Mark,

The mayors car apparently would have been just out of view in Altgens 6.

Somewhere between the green arrows. imo

Altgens z255- z180 = 75/18.3 = 4.09 sec.

The distance traveled from the mayors car front end(you can draw a LOS from Z's pedestal touching the circular wall edge and on through Houston & Elm St) that we see in z180 to Wiegman's beginning is approx 57ft (65ft - 1/2 mayors car length=(8ft).

57/4.09sec = 13.93ft per sec = 9.48mph.

If you plot JFK within the limo in Towner (using 18.3fps as a true rate) over the approx same span as the mayors car from z180-z255, the average speed is 8.82mph.

This would indicate the motorcade increased (minimally) the speed through the Elm St turn vs the limo.

 

I agree Chris, the Presidential Limo took the corner slightly more slowly than the other vehicles behind it.  As you say, its fairly minimal, so its good to see that our measurements roughly agree!

20 hours ago, Robert Burrows said:

At the beginning of the Zapruder film, three motorcycles are seen turning onto Elm Street, two on the left side of the frame, one on the right. The motorcycle on the far left appears to go straight down the dead end street that runs in front of the Texas School Book Depository, while the other two proceed down Elm Street. I've never seen this discussed and, as far as I can see, it is not reflected in the ariel reconstruction. 

Thanks for the tip Robert.  I viewed the Zapruder film again, and it does look like the bike disappears on the left hand frame.  However, I think this may be an optical illusion because if you look at Zapruder frame 131 (just before it cuts) you see the bike starting to reappear from behind the tree.

Here is a link to show you what I mean:

https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z131.jpg

Rather like the Algens 6 photo, the Zapruder camera angle of that corner is highly deceptive as it compresses the long distance up Elm Street.  By contrast the shorter distance across the corner looks much longer by visual comparison, but it isn't, so it tricks the eye regarding the speed and angles of the turning bikes and cars.

21 hours ago, John Butler said:

8.  The Camera Cars stop briefly to pick up Dave Weigman.  Other forum members estimate there is 29 seconds difference between the stop and movement of Mrs. Cabell's vehicle and the starting of the Camera Cars off Houston Street unto Ellm.

Hope this helps.

If you look at appendix D.13 of the handbook there are 2 frames from the Atkins film showing Wiegman running back to the car.  As per the Paschall film I don't think that Camera Car #1 ever stops, it simply moves extremely slowly with the other cars overtaking it, until it reaches the bridge when it speeds up.

Thanks for the detailed points John, keep up the fact checking and we can iron out all of the issues!

20 hours ago, John Butler said:

7.  You don't show part of the motorcade stopping for a brief time.  Mrs. Earle Cabell and Dave Wiegman indicate the motorcade stopped as Mrs. Cabell's vehicle turned into the intersection.  Mrs. Cabell and the car following her were released, but the Camera Cars were stopped for a longer period of time.

The stopping of the motorcade is visible in the video at about 1:30 in the video.  If you check appendix D.10 of the handbook you will see an animation frame for when the Mayor's car and the National Press Pool car stopped (with the rest of the motorcade behind stopping soon after).  As you say the Camera Cars stopped for a longer period of time causing the rest of the motorcade to back up and come to a standstill.

20 hours ago, John Butler said:

6.  The wide turn onto Elm St. by the P. Limo was witnessed by many as is generally accepted as having happened.

If you can give me references for which witnesses reported this I will have a look.  Roy Truly reported a wide turn, and I mention this in section 8.1 of the handbook but I haven't yet found any other witnesses supporting this.

20 hours ago, John Butler said:

5.  I would have to check on this, but I believe that not all of the Lead and Advance motorbikes left Dealey Plaza.

If you do find this out please let me know.  If you check the Bell film as the Presidential Limo leaves under the bridge you will see the 3 lead bikes just visible in the distance:

https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?pid=1461&fullsize=1

Then in the McIntire photo (appendix D.11 in the handbook) we see the same 3 bikes turning onto the Stemmons Freeway ramp and there is no sign of any other bikes other than Martin and Chaney under the bridge:

https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?pid=149&fullsize=1

20 hours ago, John Butler said:

4.  You don't show Glen McBride stopping to allow Mary Moorman to take a photo of him.  He gets separated from the others briefly. 

I don't think McBride stopped for this photo.  If you look at the Moorman 3 photo McBride is cruising down Elm with no feet on the ground.  Do you have a reference for him stopping?

20 hours ago, John Butler said:

3.  You mix up the 3 Advance Motorcycles and the 5 Lead Motorcycles.  The 3 Advance Motorcycles do not have two Lead Motorcycles trailing directly behind them.  There is considerable distance between the two units.  If you analyze the time of the Zapruder Gap you will understand this.

I'm not sure I agree with this.  If you check my technical reference handbook here:

https://www.marktyler.org/mc63/mc63_handbook.pdf

If you look at section 4.1.1 you will see some frames from the Muchmore film where the 3 advanced bikes start and end their turn onto Houston St.  Just as the 3 bikes are completing this turn the 2 bikes behind them are starting the turn.  This gap is roughly the same when the 3 advanced bikes come onto Elm Street because when Moorman snaps here Polaroid (see appendix 3) we don't see the 2 trailing bikes so the gap must have been roughly the same.

20 hours ago, John Butler said:

2.  You need to show the Pilot Car.  You don't show this vehicle ahead of the Advance Motorcycles.  It is not necessary to show the Advance Car this turned from Main St. onto Market St. and left the motorcade.  See AMIPA film.

Just for reference here is the AMIPA film:

It does indeed seem to show the advance car and the pilot car.  However, I'm not sure this is near Dealey Plaza because when the Presidential Limo makes its turn at 0:36-0:40 its not turning onto Houston Street, so I would deduce that its much further back in the motorcade route.

The reason I didn't include the two cars ahead of the 3 advanced bikes is that I couldn't find any photos or films of them in Dealey Plaza.  All of the other bikes, cars and buses, have photographic proof of being in Dealey Plaza so I included them.  If any evidence regarding them being in Dealey Plaza appears then I would be happy to put them into the animation, but I do want to avoid making any assumptions just in case they are wrong.

20 hours ago, John Butler said:

Mark,

I would like to make a few suggestions to you. 

1.  First, a technical issue or two.  Place the time clock just directly above where it is at and this would put it on Main Street.  Keep the motorcade progress bar active and viewable all the time.  This would separate the two and help stop the simulation for better viewing as a stopped frame.  I know the location of the various photographers, but I would think it would help to briefly show the name of the photographer in the lighted area shown.

Thanks for taking the time to study my work John.  I am thinking about moving the clock and possibly rejigging the map view to be slightly different.  I shall experiment a little over the next week or two and see what works best.  Its a tricky job though, as I want to keep all of the most important actors in view at all times.

I think the best way to watch the Vimeo video is maximised and then to start and stop it using the spacebar.  This way the clock becomes more visible as the progress bar centralises itself.

Thank you all for taking the time to check my work, and making some useful suggestions.  I added an actor key to the right hand side so viewers can see who each of the actors is, and how fast they are travelling:

https://www.marktyler.org/mc63.html

The web page also has a list of all the actor names and numbers, along with a list of photos and events that appear in the video.

I have also published a handbook which goes into more detail so people can understand what I have created, and why it is a useful tool to debunk or support the various theories in this case.  The handbook is just a PDF file so it can be viewed easily in the Chrome or Firefox browsers.  Firefox is especially nice because you see the contents on the left hand side so you can move around the document very quickly (e.g. jumping to the index or appendices).

I have mentioned the Limo turning wide in section 8.1, but I couldn't prove anything either way.  Is there testimony from anyone other than Roy Truly?

Hello Education Forum!

I am here to learn from people who have specialist knowledge of the JFK assassination, especially the Dealey Plaza crime scene.  I have created an animated reconstruction of the motorcade, which is here:

https://www.marktyler.org/mc63.html

I have been building and publishing computer software for over 15 years and this was an opportunity to use those skills to find out what did and did not happen during the assassination.