Brian Kelly

For that scene the female journalist explained it all in the doc (I thought in a clear and plausible way). She was describing the conversation she had with this character Nichols and how he showed her diff versions of the Zapruder film for some reason. I believe she thought both versions were manipulated by this guy Nichols if I remember correctly. Basically Nichols was trying to pull something on her either to cover his ass later, or to test her, or for some other reason born of his self-interest. I never took from that scene that the journalist was claiming there were real doctored versions of the Z film being screened for her, or that the documentary was implying that different versions of the Z film are out there and that spooks can check them out of the Blockbuster spy library in the basement of the CIA. Just that this guy Nichols was pulling a fast one on the journalist and he manipulated the whole situation. And she apparently navigated it pretty well.

Totally agree. Not sure how anyone buys the Paine’s BS, especially when it comes from Ruth. Just watching her interviews and she comes off as disingenuous to me (amongst other things). I wonder what Marina’s honest opinion about Ruth would be if you asked her today.

Paul, I think this is a very interesting question. With the games Oswald was playing that summer of 1963, he must have had a difficult time keeping his bearings. He was clearly in over his head, and BY THE WAY- he was only 23 years old. In TMWKTM, Dick Russell interviewed Col. William Bishop (a very interesting character in his own right) and Bishop stated that he knew (or knew of) Nagell, Angel and Leopoldo. Bc of what Nagell told Russell, Russell asked Bishop if perhaps Ang/Leo convinced Oswald that they were working for Cuban G2 intelligence. This was his response: "I don't know that for a fact, but it's a good possibility. At that point, it would have been relatively simple if Angel and Leopoldo dealt with Oswald. 'How can you prove you're Cuban intelligence? Do you know so-and-so?' Yea, it's possible it was a set-up deal. I've done it myself. They could have been double agents and convinced Oswald, falsely, that they were Cuban intelligence or associated with it. I'll tell you one damn thing, whoever set up that poor son of a bitch did a first-class job." At first for me this seemed hard to conceive- how could Oswald be fooled in this way? Subconsciously however, Oswald's dealings with Ang/Leo the way they were portrayed in "JFK" were playing in my mind, where all three of them were consorting with Bannister, Ferrie and Shaw and other right wing characters in the same room. BUT if Ang/Leo were never accompanied by other obvious anti-Castro figures in their dealings with Oswald, maybe they were able to convince him that they were G2. And then perhaps that is how they were able to manipulate Oswald, of course with the ultimate goal of painting him as pro-Castro/someone who had shady dealings with agents of Russia and Cuba.

David- great to hear from you. I think I have googled every one of those names at one point or another. Murgado, for example, only has that one grainy picture of him as an older gentleman on Spartucus Educational. Hard to tell anything from that picture. When it comes to Angel/Leopoldo it is nice to have some pictures to look at. Anywho, here's a question for you- have you ever considered that one of the Cubans suspected of being either Angel or Leopoldo is someone more well-known to the JFKA community in terms of names? Someone maybe a little more in plain sight? Joe- I totally agree, I don't know what it is exactly, but it is compelling. The direct ties to Oswald, the aliases or "war names", the WC members seeing it as problematic to their lone-nut conclusion, and investigators such as Fonzi and Meagher and many many others realizing the importance of the story. I think it all adds to the interest. So good.

Ok thanks Greg I will check it out.

Hey Steve, I don't want to say much about Ruth Paine at the moment, so I don't get sidetracked. But the Odio incident in Dallas was supposed to be a day on that last week of September, maybe the 25th, 26th, or the 27th. So that being said, would 2 months time be enough for Diaz/Angel to "befriend" Oswald? Maybe Leopoldo started his association with Oswald earlier that spring/summer and then brought Angel into the fray later? There is also the nature of the relationship from Oswald's view which is mysterious as well. If anyone has any interesting suspects for Angel or Leopoldo, I would love to hear it.

Hello All, First time, long time. I wanted to start off by focusing on a mystery of the case that (in a perfect world) could have been illuminated by released government files. But of course that is not the reality, and I'm not holding my breath. I don't believe that anything that explosive remains in any government file. At any rate, this is one of the more interesting rabbit holes I like to fall down- the identity of Angel and Leopoldo. Most or all of what we know about the pair comes from the Odio incident (of course) and the much-debated breadcrumbs from Richard Case Nagell. There has been little progress in this area over a span of decades. I will narrow this thread down to one specific question as it pertains to Angel/Leopoldo. Herminio Diaz is as good a suspect for Angel as anyone at this point in time. But there is one aspect to Diaz being Angel that could be slightly troubling- according to official records he did not arrive in the US until July of 1963 (I think in Miami?). Is this too late for him to have been the Angel involved with Oswald during his intriguing summer of 63' in New Orleans? (Oswald was in NO from April-beginning Oct 1963 I believe)