Jean Ceulemans
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Posts posted by Jean Ceulemans
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11 hours ago, Leslie Sharp said:
@Jean Ceulemans Several questions before I dig into.your references:
Did you notice she married someone 23 years her senior after Filliol? I'll research Hardiviller; the name is not familiar.
23 years her senior ? Did I made a mistake somewhere ? I don't acually see it, but these are the data :
Mickaël Marcel Ernest Valentin HARDIVILLER was born August 27, 1913 in Paris (8th District). He died Mai 18, 1986 in Asnières-sur-Seine (Hauts-de-Seine, Île-de-France, FRANCE) at the age of 72
He had married Alice on June 10, 1965 in Paris. She was born in 1907 and died in 2001Jean Paul Robert FILIOL was born May 12, 1909 in Bergerac (Dordogne, Nouvelle-Aquitaine, FRANCE)
He had married Alice on September 21, 1938 (Basque, SPAIN). -
Now, I like to keep things as simple as possible.
I have planned to read more about the medical stuff in the next weeks/months.
Very first observation - see my post above - looking at Zapruder and what Mrs. K. does with the huge flap to cover the hole back up. Looks a like a large hole in the right part of the pariatal bone (cranium) from the top down, perhaps stretching to some frontal bone and fracturing it
Second observation, looking at a skull now, I see and for now presumably it could be big enough to also touch the the temporal and occipital bone on the rightside of the head. These could be partially missing or fractured.
That's my starting points and very first impressions before jumping in the rabbit hole and before looking at photo's or X-rays
So next I'll be looking at photo's and X-rays to see if they confirm any of the above, and later on will be trying to locate the small frontal neck wound and the shallow back wound as well. For now, I will be staying away from drawings and demo's as they are personnal impressions. First things first, and keeping it as simple as possible
See ya in a couple of months.
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I believe my eyes, what Mrs. K. tried folding back in place, that was not the back of his head. No ?
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I must have been looking in the wrong places, but I can find zero on 2503 ?
I don't have acces to phonebooks or other listings, anyone ?
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In this strange world of the JFKA a Ruby connection is always there.
After 60 years we are not even close to the speed of light... but it sure feels like getting lost in the 4-th dimension...
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3 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:
Great! Thanks for the info.
Still, I find the film maker's explanation for filming Oswald weak.
He wanted to show them to Shaw to see what Shaw's reaction would be?
Please.
Regarding the investigation, I think the main effort was in finding the 2 men helping LHO. They allegedly came out of the unemployment bureau there (or were near it) and LHO offered them 2 dollar on the spot.
One of them, Steele, was later interviewed by Jenner. The other was never found I think.
The early report on Steele :
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54 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:
I just took another look at the Oswald/Trade Mart photos.
There are several still ones. I had forgotten that there were that many.
All taken in a very short time period of seconds it appears.
In the photos shown, there are "no" young girls very well dressed or otherwise seen in these photos. The men are by themselves.
I think I may have seen another wider angle shot where there are some females farther out on the sidewalk. Were they stopped and engaging Oswald or anyone else in that group of men?
Our blond background man is farther away from those sidewalk girls than almost all the other men in those photos. He sure doesn't look like he is engaging verbally with them?
Who in the heck took these photos? And then came up with them at just the right time to hugely enhance the obsessive national media promoted image of Oswald as an aggressively active and agitating Castro/Cuba promoting commie?
FWIW all the photos are still frames from a movie shot by Johann Rush for WSDU-TV. He noticed the men and allegedly wanted to get a reaction from Clay Shaw. Later on Oswald was invited to the studio. Both fragments (Trade Mart and Studio recordings, comments etc) here :
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For some reason Roy Everett Jones was not included.
A little detective work would have placed Peggie there (let's say at some point in time clse to 11/22) and make the Ryder connection.
The Ryder "thing" was big news, making it more stunning they never walked the extra mile (well... feet that is...)
But what about 2503 ???
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I have no proof Alice Lamy knew Marie and Sylvie Lamy. They were all in the international clothing industry in the 1930’s, but other than that… nothing found so far.
On Alice :
Renée Amandine "Alice" LAMY : born 12/16/1907 Verneuil-sur-Igneraie, Indre, Centre-Val de Loire, France (Verneuil-sur-Igneraie/ Community/City Register of births/by date) . Died 10/24/2001 Paris 12th District, Paris, FRANCE, at the age of 93 (City Register of deaths, Paris, Centre, 2001, Register number 1549) Her parents were Jean Armand LAMY x Georgette Gabrielle DEMEURE (names from the Register of Birth of Renée)
- Alice married (1) 9/21/1938 San Sebastián, Gipuzkoa, Basque Country, SPAIN, with Jean Paul Robert FILIOL. They have 2 children : Jean-François (°Saint-Sebastien in 1939) and Françoise (°Paris in 1942)
- Alice divorced < 1965 FILIOL
- Alice married (2) 6/10/1965 Paris, Île-de-France, FRANCE (Register Marriages/Community/Paris/By date) with Mickaël Marcel Ernest Valentin HARDIVILLER (born 1913- died 1986)
On Filiol having lived in Italy to his death, this is mentioned in a number of more recent books and essays, unfortunately most only available in French. Anyway, he lived in Grosio and in the Valtellina region (north of Itally) under the name of Adriano Grossi, died in a hospital in Milan in 1969 (there is some discussion on the exact date, one author has expressed 1975 but that is very unlikely IMO.
There were rumours he was still being sponsored for some time by former associates in Spain and the USA (L’Oreal and others). Same about him still having intelligence contacts, etc
But him going to Dallas in 1963 with Alice… never heard of it before, moreover most authors state he was no longer with Alice by then. And they have him in Italy throughout the 1960's.
Word is they separated in the 1950's. Alice was free to live in France by then. She was sentenced in 1948 to 5 years imprisonement, but they took into account the time that she already had spend in prison since she was arrested in 1944. She was released sometime in 1949 I believe. Tried it again with Filiol but that didn't work anymore (she was free to go, he was not...) and went back to France to continue to work in fashion
More recent references that include recent information Filiol : I have read some of them - not all - but even that has been some time ago :
. Jean-Marc Berlière & François Le Goarant de Tromelin : Liaisons dangereuses, miliciens, truands, résistants, Paris, 1944, Perrin, 2013.
. Collectif : La Résistance dans le Puy-de-Dôme, ONAC, 2008.
. Philippe Bourdrel : Les Cagoulards dans la guerre, Albin Michel, 2009.
. Philippe Bourdrel : La Grande débâcle de la collaboration, Le Cherche Midi, 2011.
. Brigitte et Gilles Delluc : Jean Filiol, du Périgord à la Cagoule, de la Milice à Oradour, Périgueux, Pilote 24 édition, 2005.
. Dulphy, Anne : « Les Exilés français en Espagne depuis la Seconde Guerre mondiale, des vaincus de la collaboration aux combattants d’Algérie », in Matériaux pour servir à l’histoire de notre temps, n°67, 2002. Pour une histoire de l’exil français et belge, pp. 96-101.
. Frédéric Freigneaux : « La Cagoule, enquête sur une conspiration d’extrême-droite », in L’Histoire, n°159, octobre 1992.
. Pierre Giolitto : Histoire de la Milice, Perrin, 2002.
. Vincent Giraudier : Les Bastilles de Vichy, Tallandier, 2009.
. Frédéric Monier : Le Complot dans la République, stratégies du secret, de Boulanger à la Cagoule, La Découverte, 1998.
. Pierre Péan : Le mystérieux docteur Martin (1895-1969), Fayard, 1993.
. Pierre Péan : Vie et mort de Jean Moulin, Fayard, 1998.
. Dominique Venner : Histoire de la collaboration, Pygmalion, 2000.
. Vial, Éric : La Cagoule a encore frappé, Larousse, 2000.
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54 minutes ago, Leslie Sharp said:
@Jean Ceulemans Very interesting. I wasn't sure from your previous comments whether you had confirmed Alice was a member of the larger Lamy family whose photos you shared. I don't recognize her, but then the images we have appear to be mug shots or the equivalent; most unattractive in contrast to these women.
Do you have details of her life prior to 1961?
Do you contend that at the end of the war, those who knew him well ceased to refer to JPR as Filliol and respected his use of the Lamy surname even in private? No doubt his history with Deloncle and LaCagoule ceased to serve his interests in polite company, especially the corporate world, so public identity change is reasonable.
But, are you contesting the fact Filliol and Otto Skorzeny shared a past in Madrid as well?
I have more info on Alice, but I´ll double check it first. Same on Filiol, there were rumours he´d gotten back to France (1961 de Gaule...) but that was never confirmed. Where he was living in 1961 to his death nobody knew his real name, that´s why the French didn´t know he died in 1969 (from a disease) More later.
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I only read (I have not checked this) that Fabian Escalante stated this at the Cuban Officials and JFK Historians Conference on 7th December, 1995 (from Spartacus Educational).
That's about the only thing were there seems to be an actual reference to that specific job, often I see it being presented as some kind of general knowledge, but I think it's far from that.
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B.t.w. is there a plan showing the house and the surroundings ?
Or a streetmap that's period correct and shows the contours of the Walker house ?
I have been looking at the picture a little closer, and I'm heaving some problems if it was actually taken with a 75mm lens (I'm going to double check that anyway)
Could be nothing but I'm curious, I want to do the calculation of the distance, but need data (dimensions of the house, especially the height)
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On 11/20/2023 at 7:29 AM, Leslie Sharp said:
2) We know from the Lafitte datebook that Jean Filliol, co-founding member of the notorious La Cagoule (the hooded ones), arrived at the hotel on November 20 along with his partner in crime Alice Lamy.
It would really surprise me that JPR Filiol in 1963 would still be in the company of Renée Amandine Lamy (Alice).
Alice officially married for the 2nd time in 1965 in Paris. To be able to officially get married again, a request for divorce was approved. In this case she would state something like "husband missing since....", the gouvernment would investigate before approving any (factual and documented) divorce. That would take over a year to do so, so probably somewhere 1963-1964. Alice Lamy stayed in the fashion industry as so many of her family.
On JPR Filiol, since the early 1950's he no longer used the name Filiol. Directly after WWII he had changed his name to that of his wife's... Lamy.... A little later he settled and he would change his name again. Now, he didn't settle in Spain (he did have some financial contacts there). Spain was a diversion spread by not only Schueller, but also by a friend of Roland Dumas, and some others.
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2 hours ago, Tony Krome said:
Looks like the area from which the photo was taken, was pretty exposed to the people inside.
The person taking that photo with an Imperial Reflex camera would be looking down at the view finder, correct?
Who takes that type of camera on a RECON mission haha
A master spy could perhaps 😃 in full camouflage with a long raincoat...
Now, the focal length of the Imperial Reflex lens is 75 mm, which is rather long. You would have to keep some serious distance if you want to capture a large house within a single frame. I don’t know if they checked this, was it possible to even stand there where the picture was allegedly taken? I know they compared scratch marks, but how about the actual framing?
Assuming the picture was processed uncropped from the full negative (I guess it was, seen the scratch marks)? One could fairly easy calculate the distance between the person with the camera and the house, using triangulation.
I mean - for all we now - with the Imperial Reflex and that specific picture, the photographer would need to have been standing in the middle of a pond, or in some dense woods, a huge fence, a doghouse with a nasty dog in it… you get the picture… Don’t know, but worth checking IMO
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On 11/25/2023 at 7:18 PM, Greg Doudna said:
. Was Marina doing what you suggest… smart girl as you put it, wily ingenue, a hint of passive-aggressive toward her interlocutors? I don’t know.
A picture is worth a thousand words... well... not always... but we can not deny that by the time she appeared before the WC she already was a different girl.
I have to admire her for that, how she came out after what had happened to her, she must have been exceptionally strong. She decided it was over and out with the misery, and was taking matters into her own hands (she made a few mistakes in the process but kept on going).
Some of the big and strong men that were involved, came out totally broken.
But not Marina, she straightened her back and went for it, I have to give her that.
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On 11/25/2023 at 4:55 AM, James DiEugenio said:
But Tony, was not later a picture with the plate found?
Did it match Klihr's?
I don't think so,
Marina was the only one that said she had seen the picture without a hole in it.
And in doing so she connectied the original undamaged photo to Lee, and within that frame connected Lee once more to the Walker shot...
But... in the same time pointing to the fact that some agency had taken the license plate out... oops.
Marina at times was like shooting a riot gun... she'd hit anything within reach... One really needed to be carefull in asking her the right questions, or you would have some serious backfire. Smart girl she was.
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1 hour ago, Tom Gram said:
Tony could be right that Klihr was avoided by the FBI to prevent an investigation of West 5th, but all the FBI needed to do was get a simple confirmation from Klihr saying “it’s my car.”
Why wouldn’t they do that?
Klihr at Walker's house was no problem, it was known he was an associate.
BUT having Klihr at Walkers house while LHO was in the same time taking pictures outside could cause many problems, e.g. they would have to interview him if he had seen someone outside that day, but more important it could lead to the exact date when the picture was taken.
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On 11/19/2023 at 6:06 AM, Leslie Sharp said:
@Benjamin Cole' . . . The reader also met Jean Paul Robert Filiol early in this investigation. Like Lee Harvey Oswald, Filiol failed to complete high school. He gravitated toward fierce patriotism, rejected his parents’ Protestantism and became an ardent Roman Catholic, attending Mass regularly. Like Oswald, he joined the military, serving in the French army on active duty for about two years. After similar lackluster attempts at earning a living, Filiol embarked on his radical, fascist activities. Along the way, he met a violence prone French girl, Alice Renee Lamy, and together they proceeded down the trail of murder and mayhem, ending up in the Stoneleigh Hotel in Oak Lawn, Dallas, on the eve of the assassination of John Kennedy. Whether they were “along for the ride,” or active participants is yet to be determined, but with certainty, Otto, Ilse and the project manager were aware of the presence of the maniacal couple.' — Alan Kent
Do you know when Alice (Renée Amandine) LAMY divorced JPR Filiol ? She remarried in 1965 in Paris with Mickaël M.E.V. Hardiviller (in WWII Mickaël was with the French resistance). The word was she wanted to change the course of her live (as it had been with Filiol)
The French LAMY family has always been in the fashion industry, some of them extended the industry to Belgium. I have already mentioned the link between GDM and a member of the (very large !) Lamy family, also in the Fashion industry. But it is far from sure this Lamy even knew Alice.
On Leon Degrelle... well... he was a loudmouth, his Wallloon forces send into Russia were a disaster (most of them fled and or were executed for desertion). Most of that stuff was pure propaganda by the Germans hoping to get more support from the French speaking part of Belgium.
Leon Degrelle would never admit these facts. When Maurice De Wilde pushed the item in an interview with Leon, Leon pretty much went nuts.
Since the "Maurice De Wilde interviews" were broadcasted in Belgium, all of Belgium considered Leon to be an idiot (well, that is... a dangerous idiot capable of doing anything to boost his ego).
Here's Leon being interviewed by Maurice, it's in French but it's only a minute... the expression on Degrelle's face.... The total interview was much much longer, this is just an excerpt. Maurice worked for over 20 years on the subject of collaboration, he produced over 60 (!) documentaries.
ck to the Belgian girls LAMY Marie and Sylvie. Marie was the girl GDM officially moved in with, his adress would be with her in Antwerp untill he left for the USA. But Sylvie was his girlfriend, here's pictures of the factory and the Lamy-girls George would be working with (pre-WW II).
When George studied in Liege his adress would remain in Antwerp. The LAMY girls were born in Namur, but they had moved to Brussels and Antwerp where they had clothing factories and a stores.
When George DM left Marie and Sylvie, especially Marie had a rough time, she got robbed a number of times (made the national newspapers). During the war she went back to Namur where she was robbed again (now people started to suspect some insurance fraude, but this was never proven).
For the record : George did not found Sigurd, Sigurd was part of the LAMY structure and a commercial- and brandname (there were others as well). He started as a salesman, became the accountant, and ended as what we now would call the CEO reporting to Marie LAMY (she remained head of the company througout all of the time).
The only thing I am still not 100 % sure of is the link between Marie and Sylvie, they were not sisters (I have all the family data on Marie). Sylvie was family to Marie but how exactly I don't know, it's possible they were like cousins. Marie was the older one, she was born June 8, 1901 in the city of Namur, Belgium. She was some 10 years older than GDM, Sylvie would be more of his age, born ca. 1912.
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11 hours ago, Gerry Down said:
He just did a presentation on Martin on his lone gunman podcast.
Yes, but that is about jack martin (New Orl/bannister), not jim martin (TX/six fl/marina/manager). Perhaps he will do one later on jim martin.
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11 hours ago, Pete Mellor said:
Certainly new and most interesting info here Tony!
As I have posted in your other thread on occupants of properties on West 5th., from Nancy Weiford's recent article, she also includes a Victor & Helen (no surname) as living in 2438 Westbrook, opposite the Randle's. Some street plan would help clarify exactly where folk lived, with names & numbers of houses.
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On 11/1/2023 at 3:29 PM, Gerry Down said:
I don't know. I guess Rob Clark would be the one to ask on that. He's doing a presentation on him at this years Lancer conference.
Any news on this ?
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On the Citizen Archivist Mission, they created the frame so the rest is up to volunteers. It could be the JFK-case just isn't very popular among those volunteers.
The JFK Assassination Records Collection is listed as an "Outside the Box" mission, together with e.g. Chinese Heritage.
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3 hours ago, Greg Doudna said:
Tony, as chance has it, I received a note from Ruth Paine yesterday, only the third written communication I have received from her in 22 years. It was a nice handwritten note in her frail handwriting responding to my mailing her my two papers on the Furniture Mart and the Irving Sport Shop (which I have on my website, https://www.scrollery.com/?page_id=1581). I have never sent her anything before and was unsure whether it would be an intrusion to send this, but did so because my research results so directly involve her house so long ago and I thought possibly could in some small way bring an element of understanding or closure to Marina's long-ago estrangement from Ruth without reconnection in later years. In my cover letter to Ruth I quoted this section toward the end of my Irving Sport Shop paper:
Although Marina had nothing to do with the assassination of President Kennedy, her role in accompanying Lee to get the scope repaired on the rifle used in the assassination, done in secrecy from Ruth Paine and involving an otherwise extraordinary, out-of-character borrowing by Lee and Marina of a car of Michael Paine parked at Ruth’s house without permission, would place her closer to the assassination and the rifle than she wished, perhaps compromising her sympathetic treatment by the American public. That Marina prevaricated in the days following the assassination, on specific matters of fact, both in her own interests and in defense of Lee, is not in the slightest dispute. Marina corrected many, perhaps most, of her early prevarications in the succeeding days and weeks and months under questioning from the Secret Service, FBI, and Warren Commission. But she did not correct this one.
I add a final personal comment, unverified and perhaps unverifiable but it is my belief: the very ongoing lack of correction of this early prevarication concerning the Furniture Mart and Sport Shop trip, of Nov 11, 1963, is the best explanation for why Marina to the present day has declined, for no reason otherwise sensible, to reconnect with Ruth Paine, who cared for her, who did nothing against her, but from whom Marina cut off with no explanation. I believe it may go to this ongoing prevarication, this still-unconfessed truth concerning the Nov 11 trip to the Furniture Mart and Sport Shop which Marina appears intent on taking to her grave.
Ruth's reply, courteously expressed, was that she had read my two papers and that I had not succeeded in convincing her that Lee and Marina took Michael's car on a trip to a store, but she thought it commendable that I was researching and seeking truth. (What she didn't say was some form of "I know your paper is wrong because I was there and reason x, y, z". As for someone 91 years old not changing their mind, I don't mind that.)
As to your question, I am not in frequent or ongoing contact with her and do not feel up to writing to ask the questions you ask, to do that (not that I'm not curious about what you name). I wonder if someone close to Ruth (not me) could with Ruth's permission become a conduit for anyone to email questions, to relay and obtain and communicate back answers if Ruth was willing to do that.
Speaking of aged living persons from that time, I called John Curington in Texas, the aide to HL Hunt, a couple of weeks ago, now age 96. I suspect he has more to tell which he has not yet told, because it could go into areas of past personal criminal wrongdoing, I don't know that, but I suspect it from some things he has said to me. He has directly said to me his book on HL Hunt with Mitchell Whitington and interview with me was the "light" version of what he knows. Another person than me would see this as a loss to history not to obtain if possible, actually that is how I see it too, but I just don't have the initiative to see if a trip would work to be worthwhile, whether he would tell more than he's said already, how reliable are stories from someone 96 years old, shyness (mine), and increased reluctance on my part to travel by air in recent years, all those reasons mixed together. Curington has become hard of hearing and is now a little difficult to talk with over the phone for that reason.
I'm sorry I'm not up to being more helpful to your question.
Greg, I believe you did the right thing. I have been reading a lot on Ruth lately and I feel she sometimes was simply put in an awkward position by the actions of DPD, FBI and/or SS.
As to when she notified authorities on some issues, we can not begin to imagine what life for her must have been in those days.
Would I be a a little upset when after 4 months they were still asking about curtain rods ? You bet I would... that should have been cleared on day 1 (that was about a freaking aliby for the accused !). Not in months 4 or 5.... Or even later, cfr. Hoover's memo.
Not to mention 3 agencies running an investigation on their own and are competative about it, try keeping those satisfied in such conditions, impossible !
Enrique Ernesto Pugibet deathbed confession
in JFK Assassination Debate
Posted · Edited by Jean Ceulemans
Am I correct Alice Lamy is not in the photos you've shared here?
She is not in those, those are the Belgian Lamy girls associated with GDM
Do you have her mug shot or shots?
No, never seen one
Would you conclude she was a "black sheep" of a respected family?
I have no idea how the were feeeling about her
Do you concur with reports that she and Filiol engaged in psychopathic rampages involving torture and murder or are those stories apocryphal?
I don't think there is anything to substantiate that, some of Filiol's partners said she was present during some actions, but I do not remember reading anything on her being "active" during those. But she was sentenced accomplice to murder (5 years/prison), Especially the murder of the Roselli brothers (planned by François Méténier, he was to give the order to Filiol and associates)