Robert E. Cox

Pat: Obviously the first questions out of the box. Timing also is a question -- why now? I'd think there should be a line of researchers waiting at the front door of the National Archives in College Park, Md. at 8:30 tomorrow morning. First thing, of course, is to confirm that this document is part of the record. If it is there, then we've got something to talk about, I guess. If it isn't, then we've got another hoaxter among us... bob

Wim: Yep. IF it's real, it says the CIA, under cover of Office of Naval Intelligence, trained Ozzie as a spy, and infers they inserted him into Soviet Union. (Along with other goodies about covered-up files). It also says the Secret Service knew all about it, and also the FBI. IF it's real, it blows the lid off of everything. IF it's real. Does anybody know where it came from, who found it, when they found it? How is it that it is appearing now, and not long ago? There's a Treasury Dept. RIF number AGENCY : TRS; RECORD NUMBER : 121-10002-10136, but I can't seem to find a viewable electronic version in an online database. What more do we know about source of this document? And how was the trip to Spain? Bob

Howdy. I'm a part-time rancher and full-time retired journalist. That's my byline above. Mis compadres in New Mexico call me The Gringo from Denver. My gringo pals just call me Bob. In the first half of my 40-year journalism career, I was a staff correspondent and regional executive for United Press International, a politics reporter for a couple of daily newspapers, and the managing editor for a couple of regional magazines. In the second half, I owned and published several weekly newspapers, some in the Colorado mountains, some in the Denver suburbs. So far, at the beginning of my planned 40-year career in ranching, I've become pretty adept at driving my Kubota tractor, cleaning the acequia (known outside of New Mexico as an irrigation ditch), chasing cattle and fixing barbed wire fences. Next summer, I'll be adept at building barns and wrangling trail horses. In my spare time I lurk, mostly, on JFK assassination forums and attend JFK assassination conferences. That's because we have not been afforded the truth, and we must keep learning, and working to get it. For that reason, I very much appreciate the efforts of John and Andy, along with the others who provide the various opportunities to continue this discussion. Adios, amigos.

John: Here’s some stuff from Penn Jones and Lee Israel regarding Kilgallen.... I’ve checked the back-of-the-book indices of all four of Penn Jones’s Forgive My Grief volumes, and find only a couple of references to Kilgallen/Smith. (I’ve found some holes in the FMG indexing, and can’t say for sure that there aren’t other references to these ladies found elsewhere in the Jones books.) These are verbatim excepts from FMG Vols. I and II, and please keep in mind that dear old Penn seemed to have an aversion to use of hyphens and identifying his sources. Also keep in mind that others have disputed his reporting of the Kilgallen-Ruby meeting. Although Jones said the private meeting lasted 30 minutes, his lawyer, Tonahill, told Lee Israel it was more like eight minutes (see final excerpt below). Penn Jones’s critics have jumped all over that Tonahill remembrance, saying that Ruby didn’t have much time to say anything to Kilgallen. (Of course, it wouldn’t have taken Ruby very long to tell her, “I shot him for Marcello,” would it?) Bob Cox The following excerpts are from Vol. I of FMG, Chapter One: Now we can add to that list of strange deaths that of Miss Dorothy Kilgallen. Miss Kilgallen joins Bill Hunter, Jim Koethe, Tom Howard and others. Miss Kilgallen is the only journalist who was granted a private interview with Jack Ruby since he killed Lee Oswald. Judge Joe B. Brown granted the interview during the course of the Ruby trial in Dallas – to the intense anger of the hundreds of other news people present. [some copy skipped...] [Headline:] Was It A Mickey? (This was the editorial in The Midlothian Mirror [published by Jones] on November 25, 1965) I have a concern for the strange things happening in America in recent months. With the passing of the second anniversary of the murder of President Kennedy, we take not of some of the strange things which continue to plague those around the principals. Miss Dorothy Kilgallen joins the growing list of persons who have died after a private interview with one of the two members of the Jack Ruby-George Senator team. We have printed the strange deaths of Bill Hunter and Jim Koethe after they had a private interview with George Senator and Ruby’s attorney, Tom Howard. Hunter and Koethe were murdered. Lawyer Tom Howard died under strange circumstances. [some copy skipped] Now Miss Kilgallen dies under clouded circumstances. During the Ruby trial in Dallas, Judge Joe B. Brown granted Miss Kilgallen a privilege given no other newsman. She had thirty minutes alone in a room with Jack Ruby. Even the guards were outside the door. Miss Kilgallen told some of what went of during the interview in her columns. But was someone afraid she knew more? Is she another victim of possibly knowing the secret that still moves in the troubled mind of Jack Ruby? [some copy skipped] What is happening in our land? How many murders of persons connected in some way with the assassination principals can go unnoticed by our people? How many lies must we prove on The Warren Commission before a demand for reopening becomes a commanding one? The following excerpt is from Vol. II of FMG, Chapter Two: Tom Howard knew too much from Ruby and he knew too well how the Dallas power structure and Police Department worked. Howard had to die. At the Ruby trial in Dallas during March of 1964, Dorothy Kilgallen had a private interview during one of the noon recesses with Judge Joe B. Brown. This was immediately followed by a thirty minute private interview with Jack Ruby in Judge Brown’s chambers. Even Ruby’s bodyguards were kept outside the Judge’s chambers. Joe Tonahill and others thought the meeting room in the jail was “bugged,” but it is doubtful if the Judge’s own chambers would be bugged. Judges have the power of contempt of court for such irregularities. This then, was the second person Ruby had talked to who could know for whom Ruby was acting; therefore Miss Kilgallen had to be silenced along with Tom Howard. Shortly before her death, Miss Kilgallen told a friend in New York that she was going to New Orleans in 5 days and break the case wide open. Miss Kilgallen 52, died November 8, 1965, under questionable circumstances in her New York home. Eight days after her death, a ruling was made that she died of barbiturates and drink with no quantities of either ingredient being given. Also strangely, Miss Kilgallen’s close friend, Mrs. Earl E.T. Smith, died two days after Miss Kilgallen. Mrs. Smith’s autopsy read that the cause of death was unknown. Many skeptical newsmen have asked: “If Miss Kilgallen knew anything, surely as a journalist wouldn’t she have left some notes?” This is a legitimate question. Possibly Mrs. Smith was the trusted friend with the notes. No one will ever know now. Following excerpts from Chapter 26 of “Kilgallen,” by Lee Israel. During one of her [Kilgallen’s] visits – sometime in March, before the verdict – she prevailed upon Joe Tonahill to make arrangements through Judge Brown for a private interview with Jack Ruby. ... Brown, awestruck by Dorothy, acceded readily to Tonahill’s request. The meeting room in the jailhouse was bugged, and Tonahill suspected that Brown’s chambers were as well. Brown and Tonahill chose a small office off the courtroom behind the judge’s bench. They asked Ruby’s ubiquitous flank of four sheriff’s guards to consent to remain outside the room. Dorothy was standing by the room during a noon recess. Ruby appeared with Tonahill. The three entered the room and closed the door. The defendant and Dorothy stood facing each other, spoke of their mutual friend, and indicated that they wanted to be left alone. Tonahill withdrew. They were together privately for about eight minutes, in what may have been the only safe house Ruby had occupied since his arrest. Dorothy would mention the fact of the interview to close friends, but never the substance. Not once, in her prolific published writings, did she so much as refer to the private interview. Whatever notes she took during her time alone with Jack Ruby in the small office off the judge’s bench were included in a file she began to assemble on the assassination of John F. Kennedy. [in the next chapter (27), page 370, Israel says] “It was Penn Jones, a newspaperman from Midlothian, Texas, who first revealed the meeting between Dorothy and Ruby, Tonahill and Belli, as reported earlier, have confirmed that the meeting did occur...”

John Simkin wrote: "Rose Cheramie was found unconsciousness by the side of the road at Eunice, Louisiana, on 20th November, 1963. Lieutenant Francis Frudge of the Louisiana State Police took her to the state hospital. ..." John: For the record, it was Francis Fruge (without the "d"), or, more likely, Frugé (with the accent) and pronounced Froo-GHAY by his widow during a brief conversation I had with her a few years back. He was one of those Cajun Country citizens down in Louisiana, where the language, and names, still bear influences from your good pals across the channel. You've gotta be careful with these names -- spell one wrong and somebody from the Posner Posse will add it to their store of strawmen, to be propped up and shot down whenever the need to change the subject arises. And be especially careful with "Cheramie." You're liable to get a brusque correction from the Posse's official spellchecker, Dave Rietzes, who has been insisting, diligently, for years, that IT'S CHERAMI, for pete's sake, WITHOUT THE "E." Of course it was one of many aliases used by Melba Christine Marcades-- probably made up for a poster at a strip-club's entrance. Dear old Melba herself probably didn't know how to spell it. Perhaps Rietzes has spoken to the guy who painted the sign...I don't know. But, be forewarned. rec

John: Congratulations on your fine web offering -- a stellar addition to the ranks. That said, I've got to cast my lot with Wim in the current discussion on who killed JFK -- there are other options to consider aside from single-element thesis (i.e. CIA or FBI or Cuban Exiles or Mafia, etc.) It has been well-documented that these organizations and factions did and do not operate independently of one another. Dulles of the CIA could put out a call to Maheu of the Mil-Ind complex, who could put out a call to Roselli of the Mafia, which could connect with the Cuban exiles, who were connected with the CIA. Somewhere in this circle, or other related entanglements, there well could have been a rogue team with players from more than one element. The question as to how such a complex group could have managed to keep a secret is a good question, but if you're polling to determine what people think, then give 'em a chance to tell you what they think. You can argue with them somewhere else. It's only the Republican push-pollers of the USA who believe that the only questions you ask are the ones containing the answers you want to hear. I suggest you add a few more options, like CIA-Mafia, or Mafia-Mil/Ind Complex, or Mafia-Exile. or LBJ-Mil/Ind-CIA. Granted, that confuses the poll, but the result may be interesting -- I wonder how many of us suspect that there were more than one set of black hats participating in this shoot-em-up? Bob