JL Allen

Mr. JENNER. Do you do any work for any federal agency?

Mr. STOVALL. Yes, sir.

Mr. JENNER. Is it secret or confidential work or classified work of any kind?

Mr. STOVALL. On occasion we do. Most of it is not, but we do on occasion. We are cleared through the Navy Bureau Materiel here, although I believe it now has been incorporated under the Department of Defense as a single unit.

Mr. JENNER. Without disclosing any secrets in that connection or classifications, what is the nature of that work?

Mr. STOVALL Generally speaking, the nature of the work is charting and mapping, and actually all we do is set words, letters, and figures. We have no correlation of what they refer to.

Mr. JENNER. It's charting of coastal areas, sea bottoms, and some land areas or what?

Mr. STOVALL Yes; and some foreign areas, too.

Mr. JENNER. That is, other than continental United States?

Mr. STOVALL. Yes; right.

"The Pro-Castro bit was the first of many Pro-Castro stances Lee would put on. During his stay at J-C-S, Lee memorized the maps of Cuba. I wonder how he did that. Maybe Mr. Stovall just didn't wish to describe the real Lee Oswald. He had a lot of reasons not to." - Judyth Baker

Did Jaggers-Chiles-Stovall print undersea maps for the Bay of Pigs invasion? Probably no way to find out.

Seems to be some good circumstantial evidence that the Stovalls were brothers - would any researchers from that time know for sure... maybe Gaeton Fonzi - or Mark Lane?

I don't know what this means - something about the Church of the Grassy Knoll?

There is too much verbage - and not enough viewing of the actual film footage which plainly shows the President being driven violently sideways - towards Jackie- from the force of a blast originating from his right-front. Interesting that Roscoe White apparently claimed to have made that shot with a German Mauser (in the diary discovered by his son and revealed in 1992 - the same rifle originally said to have been found in the TSBD). Dan Rather began his career telling us that the President had been driven down and forwards by the blast - incomprehensibly inaccurate reporting which misled the entire world - and winds up his career by causing a basically true rendition of Bush's National Guard service to be completely removed from public discourse on a technicality - the fact that the information had been "retyped" - "Font-gate". Dubyu ultimately received sympathy from the story instead of the criticism and condemnation he deserved.

Another big pre-election convert to the Kennedy camp was Henry Robinson Luce (Time, Life, Fortune must have been CIA assets as well...) who had pushed hard for Eisenhower in 1952 - and was probably more in tune with Nixon's foreign policies (I believe his wife, Clare Boothe Luce was made Ambassador to the United Nations after the victory?). He didn't care for Nixon personally but was also leery of JFK. Joseph Kennedy was an old friend and a conservative. I think many thought that they "might" be able to work with JFK before he took office - but were shocked by the actual positions he took once there. Luce later said that he had been "seduced" by JFK's personality.

The tone and timber of his voice would certainly qualify him... (Bradlee)

"It is not uncommon for CIA people to suffer from psychotic illness. It probably is something to do with the job." (Finding it impossible to live with themselves...)

"We live in a dirty and dangerous world. There are some things the general public does not need to know and shouldn't. I believe democracy flourishes when the government can take legitimate steps to keep its secrets and when the press can decide whether to print what it knows." - Katherine Graham

Democracy flourishes when the people are kept ignorant and the leaders are the most dirty and dangerous to ever come down the pike? She has democracy confused with some other form of government.

Thanks, guys. I should brush up on that.

What was the actual original source of the Odio story? Was it Clare Boothe Luce - or did she just add wood to the fire?

Oops... too much information... 8^)

Tom Kutzer - interesting about your take on Kellerman. I spent some time a couple of years ago trying to ascertain if Kellerman was indeed sitting there watching the whole series of events in the rearview mirror. The whole mirror and casing was adjusted manually, back then - and I remember thinking that it seemed to be at a severe angle - useless for driving - reflecting the car's interior. It seems like Kellerman's eyes were in shadow - but there was a sense of an area a bit darker - the pupils - staring intently at the mirror and watching Kennedy for a long while - until - the kill shot? I couldn't determine anything conclusively - but my sense of it was that he was watching - which would be highly incriminating since he was doing absolutely nothing to help the President and JFK had already been hit with his hands at his throat.

De Mohrenschildt had talked and written about him quite extensively - always called him "Lee". Ruth Paine referred to him as "Lee" - maybe Michael, too. Marina did. I don't really remember anyone calling him "Lee Harvey".

I just ran across this site this morning and was unsure where to place it. Individual pages can be searched with "Nodule 0", "Nodule 1", etc. It is the work of A. J. Weberman. A clickable index is found at :

http://www.ajweberman.com/nodules/nodule35.htm

The quantity and scope is astonishing. It seems to cover almost any aspect imaginable. Extensive documentation - even rare photographs of obscure suspects.

This is an amazing site and the quantity of work he has done is mind-boggling. I was going to save the 1st nodule in Works and it was 50 pages long! (After I'd already increased the margins to the edges of the page)!!! (30-some nodules)

Gawd. Start all over on sifting through a new omni-layered conspiracy? Maybe in 2050 we will nail these Skull-Fokkers - when we're all living in emergency "protein-provision cages". I still think the GREAT John F. Kennedy's murder is the jigger to flip the switch. It's at the foundation. It's got all the ammo at it's heart - even George Herbert Walker. Everyone wants me to move on to a NEW conspiracy - Apollo Moon Hoax - 9/11 - What's Up with Harvey Firestein? - hmmmmmm. Someone knows we're close!!!! Then, what? Sorry to hear about Carroll-Graff... did the same thing happen to Thundersmouth Press? It is the new "silencer" - take your windfall and buy up the vocal cords of everything that is causing such a pain in your ass. Ruining your bloody take-over. It is the reason Dick Cheney chose "We Want The World and We Want It Now" for his Inauguration presentation. Whatever happened to John Lennon? We sure could have used him over the last 25 years.

I seem to recall that when they found her body in bed - her clothing was somehow inappropriate - and that she was reading a book which she had already finished - without her reading glasses - which she needed. Or, something like that...

I'm sure I remember reading that towards the end of his life, Howard Hughes also became closer and closer to the Mormon "community" - leaving them a great deal of money and I believe that his pall-bearers were a largely Mormon contingent.

He was also not helpful to the overall cover-up as he insisted adamantly until the end - as did his wife Nellie - that the first shot which struck JFK was an entirely different bullet from the one which hit him soon after. Not much of a "team player"...

Pamela,

Though your information seems fantastic - I also have had some suspicions in this area. Something happened in Roswell in 1947 - and the Majestic 12 documents released through the FOI Act - although they have been discounted as fakes - are so numerous and complex and interconnected - providing so much technical detail regarding people and places and dates - that it seems that it would take a complete madman to undertake the creation of such an elaborate ruse - and, to what end?

Here are a few things which relate to what you were presenting.

Bill Holden, who also served as loadmaster for Air Force One, traveled with Kennedy to Europe in the summer of 1963. He said a UFO conference in Bonn, Germany, prompted a discussion of the subject aboard the President's plane one morning.

Holden said he turned to Kennedy and asked, "What do you think about UFOs, Mr. President?" He said Kennedy became quite serious and thought for a moment before replying, "I'd like to tell the public about the alien situation, but my hands are tied."

A controversial MJ-12 document titled "Interplanetary Phenomenon Unit Summary," noted Kennedy's insider knowledge. This document, apparently written soon after the crashes in New Mexico during July 1947, states, "It has become known to CIC [Counter Intelligence Corps] that some of the recovery operation was shared with Representative John F. Kennedy, Massachusetts Democrat elected to Congress in '46, Son of Joseph P. Kennedy, Commission on Organization of the Executive Branch of the Government. [Jack] Kennedy had limited duty as naval officer assigned to Naval Intelligence during the war. It is believed that information [concerning the Roswell crashes] was obtained from [a] source in Congress who is close to [the] Secretary for Air Force." Kennedy was the only Congressmen named who was aware of the truth of the Roswell incidents at the time.

JFK would have been one of the very few "loose threads" in their chosen course of shielding the public from any knowlege of such remarkable secrets.

FWIW - I believe it was Col. Corso who claimed to have met the alien in the desert. He supposedly asked the alien something like - "Why are you here? What do you want from us?"

The alien apparently responded - "We want to give you a new future - if you can handle it."

Colonel Philip J. Corso (Ret.), a member of President Eisenhower's National Security Council and former head of the Foreign Technology Desk at the U.S. Army's Research & Development department, has come forward to tell the whole explosive story. Backed by documents newly declassified through the Freedom of Information Act, Colonel Corso reveals for the first time his personal stewardship of alien artifacts from the crash, and discloses the U.S. government's astonishing role in the Roswell incident: what was found, the cover-up, and how these alien artifacts changed the course of twentieth- century history.

In 1961 Corso, then a lieutenant colonel, was given command of one of the Pentagon's highly classified weapons development budgets and was made privy to the U.S. government's greatest secret: the dismantling and appropriation of the Roswell extraterrestrial spacecraft by the Army. Now, identifying all those involved, Colonel Corso reveals how a deep-cover council officially discounted all UFO reports to the American public, and cleared the path for his R&D team at the Pentagon to analyze and integrate the Roswell artifacts into the military arsenal and the private business sector. The extent of the operation is startling.

With unprecedented detail, Corso divulges how he spearheaded the Army's reverse-engineering project that "seeded" alien technology at American companies such as IBM, Hughes Aircraft, Bell Labs, and Dow Coming-without their knowledge. He describes the devices found aboard the Roswell craft, and how they were the precursors for today's integrated circuit chips, fiber optics, lasers, and super-tenacity fibers. He also discusses the role alien technology played in shaping geopolitical policy and events: how it helped the United States surpass the Russians in space; spurred elaborate Army initiatives such as SDI, Horizon and HARP; and ultimately brought about the end of the Cold War.

Many powerful icons of the American scene seem to have been willing to risk everything - their wealth, their power, their prestige and reputation, their already assured tremendous good-standing in the annuls of American history - all on a sinister and dispicable high-risk venture based in treason, sedition, and ultimate betrayal. It seems that something stupendously colossal must have been at stake.

This is the text of a speech circulating the internet which purports to have been something JFK was very close to delivering in November of 1963 - probably bogus - perhaps, not. It is certainly more fun to entertain as a future than the disgusting debacle of a destiny which has replaced it.

"My fellow Americans, people of the world, today we set forth on a journey into a new era. One age, the childhood of mankind, is ending and another age is about to begin. The journey of which I speak is full of unknowable challenges, but I believe that all our yesterdays, all the struggles of the past, have uniquely prepared our generation to prevail.

Citizens of this Earth, we are not alone. God, in His infinite wisdom, has seen fit to populate His universe with other beings -- intelligent creatures such as ourselves.

How can I state this with such authority? In the year 1947 our military forces recovered from the dry New Mexico desert the remains of an aircraft of unknown origin. Science soon determined that this vehicle came from the far reaches of outer space. Since that time our government has made contact with the creators of that spacecraft.

Though this news may sound fantastic -- and indeed, terrifying -- I ask that you not greet it with undue fear or pessimism. I assure you, as your President, that these beings mean us no harm. Rather, they promise to help our nation overcome the common enemies of all mankind -- tyranny, poverty, disease, war.

We have determined that they are not foes, but friends.

Together with them we can create a better world. I cannot tell you that there will be no stumbling or missteps on the road ahead. But I believe that we have found the true destiny of the people of this great land: To lead the world into a glorious future.

In the coming days, weeks and months, you will learn more about these visitors, why they are here and why our leaders have kept their presence a secret from you for so long. I ask you to look to the future not with timidity but with courage. Because we can achieve in our time the ancient vision of peace on Earth and prosperity for all humankind. God bless you.

Joeseph Kennedy actually guaranteed Henry Luce that no son of his would ever be a supporter of liberal ideas and policies prior to his selection as the candidate of 1960. The elder Kennedy left his British ambassadorship in disgrace after he had assured FDR that Adolf Hitler was no real threat - just before all hell broke loose. Luce gave JFK luke-warm support in his publications through the campaign as he did not like Nixon, personally. He said that a certain amount of liberalism could be tolerated in domestic policy - but never in foreign policy. Luce later alibi-ed that he had been "seduced" by JFK's personality.

Harry,

I don't know how to go about dumping an entire post - it's a mystery - but, you could edit it and delete the text - and replace it with "Happy Holidays!" or something... Happy Holidays!

I believe that is why Dean Andrews told Garrison: You've got the right ha-ha , but the wrong ho-ho !

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That quote is taken out of context. Andrews was in the process of training Garrison to be a Salvation Army Santa... Merry Christmas to all!

Greetings, Mr. White... I began writing this before I noticed you had the last post - this wasn't supposed to be directly at you... but, you are probably one of the most knowledgable regarding this area...

It seems like it was Lyndal Shaneyfelt who stated to the WC that the original 2 snapshots found with the negative were most certainly printed at a commercial photo shop due to the white border and the way the picture was cropped from the negative. Considering the compressed timeframe in which the pictures had to be taken and printed (one of the Marxist papers was a 3/24/64 issue (I believe), which at the very outside would have taken 7 days for delivery (WC's determination) - and G. de Mohrenshildlt's 133A was dated on the back, 4/5/64 - the WC ascertained that the photos had been taken on Sunday, 3/31/64...) , it should have been a fairly simple thing to find the shop near Oswald which printed the pictures. (Did they have 1-hour photo, or did developing take longer?)

In the testimony that I read, the subject was suddenly changed to the rifle-strap at the point that questions of this nature might have been logically asked. Has anyone ever heard of any police follow-up on the local photoshops and what was determined? Were the rest of the photographs from that role ever found?

Whereabouts within the series did the backyard pictures fall? Near the front or end of the role? Could this be determined? The pictures taken before or after may have been important - how many pictures were taken between the backyard and the photoshop? A great number? If the other pictures from the role were never found - why not?

I'm tired of the excuse, "Shoddy policework..." There's shoddy - then, there's completely unacceptable...

I recall hearing a story that two military men stood on Oswald's porch with Lee and convinced his mother Marguerite to sign a special release allowing him to join at... 16? Considering the events of his life over the next years - and the extensive research of the various intelligence agencies into thought control and manipulation - I've wondered if the military might actually target young men who are fatherless for special training - as they might be more receptive psychologically to the strong influences of male surrogates - perhaps more willing to perform questionable tasks in order to secure long sought after approval, recognition and love.

(I'm not implying that Oswald shot at JFK - I don't personally think he did - just that he may have been placed on "tracks" according to his potential usefulness...)

I don't think it is ever justifiable in the particular context of what this nation purportedly stands for. Our mission was always to protect the high-minded principles for which we stood at our founding - and to be the of light the world - never to defend the alibis and excuses of the most despicable human behavior of criminals who may have maneuvered themselves into positions from which they could take hold of the reins of our government. Once we dive into a polluted lake to swim - our standards for acceptable levels of pollution diminish. We should never have let go of our pure ideals and allowed them to be replaced with artificial symbols and slogans pretending to mean the same things. This is the only way in which true American patriotism can be revitalized and reenergized. We should have pursued a course of being the world's friend and mentor - not it's strict and cruel taskmaster.

JFK represented inclusion, education and elevation of all of the world's citizens through positive programs of cooperation. He was replaced by a faction offering domination, subjugation and economic tyranny by military rule - and a systematic reduction of the role of the common man to that of servant, lackey and wage slave.

We shouldn't tolerate the killings or the cover-ups. As in the Biblical admonition, "As ye sow - so shall ye reap..." - if the seed is murder - what will the plant become?

I once read on the internet that Gary Francis Powers had stated after the incident that the U2 shootdown was the "fault of Lee Harvey Oswald" - a combo of his Atsugi work and supposed temporary "defection". I forgot to bookmark and could never locate it again. Has anyone ever heard this or possibly cite a document to verify that this might have actually occurred? It seems that it could provide some insight into why Oswald may have been set-up in such an apparently cold and ruthless manner to be the "patsy" - if that was the accepted belief of some. Thanx.

Nevermind. I still can't find the actual quote - but there are plenty of references to it. Here is one from Mae Brussell's "Nazi Connections to JFK Assassination" from 1983.

Atsugi was only one station on Oswald's Far East intelligence route; he was also at the U-2 base at Subic Bay in the Philippines and, for a short while, at Ping-Tung. Taiwan In 1959 he was transferred to a Marine base at Santa Ana, California for instructions in radar surveillance. His training officer had graduated from the Georgetown School of Foreign Service, which had close Agency ties. In May, 1960, when President Eisenhower was planning a summit meeting with Soviet Premier Khrushchev, a U-2 was shot down over Russia and its pilot captured. The pilot, Francis Gary Powers, later blamed his demise on Lee Harvey Oswald. The U-2 affair effectively sabotaged Ike's summit meeting.

Powers "later blamed"... this was still prior to the assassination - or, not?

Deleted.

Freelance artist and writer. JFK hobbyist since his murder and the subsequent events of the 1960's and after.

Ron,

The KGB officers that had infiltrated the CIA began handling American intelligence officers targeted for political office starting in the early 1950s. Some of the most powerful Senators and Congressmen over the years have been in the CIA while they were in Congress.

They’ve ranged across the political spectrum from the far left to the far right, as both groups were easy to exploit while the CIA established itself in the government, supporting liberal and conservative causes.

George W. Bush’s father, former President George H. W. Bush, had been elected to the House of Representatives in 1966 and he was one of the CIA officers that the KGB was handling. He had a meteoric rise, which includes being touted as man that Richard Nixon should choose for his Vice-Presidential running mate in 1968, even though Bush had been in Congress less than eighteen months and had lost his 1964 Senate Race in Texas.

Two years later, as Bush was finishing up his second term in the House and making what would be his second unsuccessful Senate bid, he was touted as the man who should replace Vice President Agnew as Nixon’s running mate in the 1972 election, and as the man who should be elected President in 1976.

He was touted for the Vice Presidency a number of times after that as he was maneuvered into various positions, including Director of the CIA, and then Ronald Reagan’s advisers “heavily pressured him” to choose Bush for his running mate in 1980. President Reagan was shot sixty-nine days after he and Bush took the oath of office.

In addition to George W. Bush’s father, a partial list of CIA officers targeted for political office includes current Senators Edward Kennedy, Chris Dodd, and Barbara Mikulski, and former Senators Daniel Patrick Moynihan, Claiborne Pell, Barry Goldwater, Thomas Eagleton, and Walter Mondale, and Congressmen Lawrence McDonald and Edwin Forsythe.

There were other CIA officers in Congress in 1984 and some of them, besides Senators Kennedy, Dodd, and Mikulski, may still be in Congress.

Besides being in the CIA, Barry Goldwater was Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Oversight Committee in 1984 and Daniel Patrick Moynihan, as the ranking Democrat, was Vice Chairman.

There were several other intelligence officers on both the House and Senate Intelligence Oversight Committees in 1984, and they also held positions on other key committees, such as the Foreign Relations Committee.

Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s CIA code name was John McMahon, and he, Daniel Patrick Moynihan, was Deputy Director of the CIA in 1984. The United States Senate had officially confirmed Daniel Patrick Moynihan as Deputy Director of the CIA and then used his code name for public records so that the American people would not know about the Constitutional violation. The CIA even used a picture of someone else that they claimed was John McMahon.

James Carter, Governor of Georgia before he was elected to the Oval Office in 1976, was also an intelligence officer. He was the first intelligence officer that KGB officers managed to get into the nation’s highest office, and he had another intelligence officer, Walter Mondale, as his Vice President.

Their first attempt to put an intelligence officer in the Oval Office was in 1964 when Barry Goldwater was the Republican candidate for President.

Killing Kennedy was the first stage of the two-pronged effort to put Goldwater into the Oval Office. The second stage was the assassination of President Johnson on October 31, 1964, which they failed to do. Johnson won by a landslide but if they had assassinated him, Goldwater would have won the election three days later.

Besides all the obvious reasons for wanting an intelligence officer under their control as President, the main reason for wanting Goldwater as President was that he was a segregationist, and he would be their foremost asset to exasperating a very tense racial situation.

Summers of violence followed the advent of growth in the civil rights movement in the early 1960s, due in large part to the fact that KGB officers who had infiltrated the CIA saw racial strife and polarization of society as a means of inciting the masses in the United States. They were responsible for much of the violence that targeted African-Americans, including a Ku Klux Klan church bombing in Birmingham, Alabama, which killed four African-American schoolgirls in September 1963.

Civil rights and integration were a paramount issue during the 1960s. By promoting vehement opposition to it and by promoting violence against African-Americans, the KGB officers made it the “central domestic issue,” which is what Daniel Patrick Moynihan called it when, as an official in the Nixon Administration, he made his contribution to the effort, undoubtedly because it was the KGB officers’ “central domestic issue.”

The biggest asset in the effort to create racial strife and polarization would have been the election of segregationist Senator Barry Goldwater to the Office of President of the United States at the crucial juncture of 1964, which was not only the year that civil rights legislation was passed, it was prior to the Voting Rights Act of 1965. 1964 was also the year that the 24th Amendment, which outlawed the poll tax that kept impoverished African-Americans from voting, became part of the Constitution.

A Goldwater litmus test for appointing Supreme Court Justices who supported segregation would have been horrific. Even without confirmation to the Supreme Court, such nominations would cause anger in the civil rights movement, anger that could be exploited, and anger that could mask the intentions of individuals bent on sabotaging the peaceful drive towards equality.

The KGB officers in the CIA killed civil rights leaders Martin Luther King and Senator Robert F. Kennedy in a warped effort to start a race war.

(A KGB officer assassinated Martin Luther King. He had been one of two KGB officers that had been part of the three-member team that assassinated President Kennedy.)

When the KGB officers killed Martin Luther King on April 4, 1968, which caused considerable racial unrest, it was actually supposed to be a precursor to a “race war” in 1968. Robert F. Kennedy’s assassination on June 5, 1968, before he was to head to Chicago to win the Democratic nomination for President, was meant to be the catalyst in the “race war” that the KGB officers envisioned.

If they had managed to get Goldwater elected in 1964, they could have done much more to promote their vision of a "race war."

Tony

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