Is it possible to definitively resolve issues?

[Guest Mark Valenti]

Someone says there's a bullet strike on the pavement.

Someone else says it's no such thing.

Someone says there's a bullet hole in the windshield.

Someone else says it's no such thing.

etc. etc.

Lewis Carroll would be proud.

I'd like to tackle one item and see if there can be a final answer, or if the merry-go-round will continue to spin.

I've read that Jackie Kennedy might have pulled JFK down and to the left in a flash-reaction to the headshot.

Is it remotely possible that this is what caused JFK's body to hurl in that direction?

[Jack White]

Someone says there's a bullet strike on the pavement.

Someone else says it's no such thing.

Someone says there's a bullet hole in the windshield.

Someone else says it's no such thing.

etc. etc.

Lewis Carroll would be proud.

I'd like to tackle one item and see if there can be a final answer, or if the merry-go-round will continue to spin.

I've read that Jackie Kennedy might have pulled JFK down and to the left in a flash-reaction to the headshot.

Is it remotely possible that this is what caused JFK's body to hurl in that direction?

There are MANY POSITIVE PROOFS.

Unfortunately there are a stable of Posners, Mailers, Trasks, Myers, and Bugliosis who

spring forward into the fray, say TAIN'T SO, and they get all the media attention, keeping

things confused.

Jack

[William Kelly]

Someone says there's a bullet strike on the pavement.

Someone else says it's no such thing.

Someone says there's a bullet hole in the windshield.

Someone else says it's no such thing.

etc. etc.

Lewis Carroll would be proud.

I'd like to tackle one item and see if there can be a final answer, or if the merry-go-round will continue to spin.

I've read that Jackie Kennedy might have pulled JFK down and to the left in a flash-reaction to the headshot.

Is it remotely possible that this is what caused JFK's body to hurl in that direction?

There are MANY POSITIVE PROOFS.

Unfortunately there are a stable of Posners, Mailers, Trasks, Myers, and Bugliosis who

spring forward into the fray, say TAIN'T SO, and they get all the media attention, keeping

things confused.

Jack

Mark,

I think you'll have a hard time convicing James Tague a bullet didn't strike the curb.

And Jack, every time the scroundrels you mention say a peep, the media, whether TV, radio or print, has an OBLIGATION to at least listen to a reasoned response, and air or print it.

I think the Talbot vs. Bugliosi bout is just heating up and along with the other, still surfacing evidence and new witnesses, there might be enough heat to help generate the required Congressional Oversight hearings on the JFK Act and set the stage for a grand jury investigation.

And Mark, it's not necessary to convince everyone to get a consensus on issues, but we should start focusing on the issues that will be the topic of the hearings and evidence that's admissiable to the grand jury.

BK

[Ron Ecker]

Is it remotely possible that this is what caused JFK's body to hurl in that direction?

I'm still confused as to what a person does when shot. Some say the person will fall in the same direction as the bullet (though some also say not as violently as JFK did), others say that's just Hollywood, that a person doesn't fall away at all.

Does one have to get shot to find out?

Edited May 22, 2007 by Ron Ecker

[Guest Mark Valenti]

we should start focusing on the issues that will be the topic of the hearings and evidence that's admissiable to the grand jury.

BK

The grand jury may need to sense a groundswell or at least a certain level of momentum before they decide to act. It's human nature, easily identified in pop culture trends, that people don't tend to give themselves to an idea unless there's an immediacy to it, or a kind of viral imperative involved.

That can all be created, it's nothing more than stagecraft on a national scale. I think the JFK cause would be well served by goosing the legal case along those lines - create a need, then fill it.

All the mainstream press has to do is quote some of the more outlandish theories that pop up on this and other forums from time to time. That will be the easiest way to douse all hope of ever reopening the case. In some ways, they have all the ammo they'll ever need to say no.

But as with the case of Oliver Stone's movie, it's possible to shift the direction of an iceberg if you create inevitability. The best way to do that, imo, is to construct several key tent poles that follow a logical through line.

For example, the release of two books with competing theses - which we now have - is a great beginning. It raises public awareness, lets them know the issue is not dead. Bugliosi will be all over the media. We should encourage this - and make sure we show up too.

Any number of acts could follow - persuading a public figure with credibility to join the ranks in calling for a new investigation, filing a civil lawsuit that targets a high-profile figure for their involvement (all those who claim GHWB was involved - do any of them have the nerve to sue him??), trying to inject the issue into the upcoming Presidential elections, making sure the issue is raised on every radio and TV call-in show, every newspaper editorial page.

The issue has to be framed in a way that highlights its importance to our national character, or for the sake of history or something else that resonates. It's been a long time since the JFK issue has been meaningful to most people - American Idol garners a larger investment of emotion and thought.

The issue has to compete with a lot of noise - and to do that, it has to strike a chord that cuts through that noise. Is it patriotism? Revenge? Righteous anger?

In my opinion, the absence of this type of potent trigger will doom the effort. It's not just about doing the right thing. In our current environment, it's also about finding a way to persuade the public to join the crusade. They're going to need a new reason.

[William Kelly]

we should start focusing on the issues that will be the topic of the hearings and evidence that's admissiable to the grand jury.

BK

The grand jury may need to sense a groundswell or at least a certain level of momentum before they decide to act. It's human nature, easily identified in pop culture trends, that people don't tend to give themselves to an idea unless there's an immediacy to it, or a kind of viral imperative involved.

HI MARK, (USING BIG TYPE TO DISTINGUISH MY REMARKS FROM YOURS, NOT TO SHOUT) - BUT THE GRAND JURY NEEDS NO GROUNDSWELL OF PUBLIC SUPPORT - IT ONLY NEEDS ONE OF A DOZEN POSSIBLE DISTRICT ATTORNEYS TO MAKE THE DECISION TO TAKE NEW WITNESSES AND EVIDENCE TO A GRAND JURY.

THE PUBLIC GROUNDSWELL IS NECESSARY TO GET THE WAXMAN OVERSIGHT COMMITTIEE TO TAKE TAKE THEIR RESPONSIBLITY SERIOUSLY AND REVIEW THE GOVERNMENT RESPONSE TO THE JFK ACT. SO FAR THEY HAVE HAD HEARINGS ON GLOBAL WARMING AND OIL, WALTER REED ARMY HOSPITAL AND THEIR MOST RECENT AGENDA SEEMS TO BE WHATEVER ISSUE IN THE PUBLIC ARENA IS THE MOST POLITICALLY EXPEDIENT.

THE ISSUE THERE IS NOT WHO KILLED JFK BUT THE NEED TO RELEASE ALL OF THE GOVERNMENT RECORDS - NO CONSPIRACY THEN NO SECRET FILES NECESSARY. EVEN LONE NUTER POSNER HAS ENDORSED THE RELEASE OF ALL THE RECORDS. NO DEBATE THERE. PUBLIC MOMENTUM, AS YOU SUGGEST CAN BE BUILT TO FEE ALL THE FILES NOW. AS YOU SAY....

That can all be created, it's nothing more than stagecraft on a national scale. I think the JFK cause would be well served by goosing the legal case along those lines - create a need, then fill it.

INDEED, THE CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS AND THE CURRENT MEDIA WAR MUST BE HELD FIRST AND PLAY OUT BEFORE A REAL GRAND JURY IS POSSIBLE.

All the mainstream press has to do is quote some of the more outlandish theories that pop up on this and other forums from time to time. That will be the easiest way to douse all hope of ever reopening the case. In some ways, they have all the ammo they'll ever need to say no.

WHY SHOULD WE ALLOW BUGLIOSI TO MAKE OUR CASE THEN QUELCH IT?

GOING BEFORE A GRAND JURY WITH ONLY THE NECESARY AND SPECIFIC HARD EVIDENCE OF CRIMES RELATED TO THE ASSASSINATION ELEMINATES THE BS AND WHEN SEPARATED FROM THE BS, CANNOT BE QUELCHED.

But as with the case of Oliver Stone's movie, it's possible to shift the direction of an iceberg if you create inevitability. The best way to do that, imo, is to construct several key tent poles that follow a logical through line.

For example, the release of two books with competing theses - which we now have - is a great beginning. It raises public awareness, lets them know the issue is not dead. Bugliosi will be all over the media. We should encourage this - and make sure we show up too.

YES, AND AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY, REMIND THEM THAT THE MOST SIGNIFICANT FILES ARE STILL LOCKED AWAY, AND THE GOVERNMENT AGENCIES STONEWALLING(Joannidies/JMWAVE) AND DESTROYING RECORDS (ie. DOD, SS, NO Grand Jury, Andrews log, et al.). MAKE THE PUBLIC AWARE OF THIS AND MAKE THEM SO MAD THAT THEY CONTACT THEIR CONGRESSMAN AND ASK THEM WHY THE JFK ACT IS NOT BEING INFORCED OR REVIEWED BY PROPER OVERSIGHT?

Any number of acts could follow - persuading a public figure with credibility to join the ranks in calling for a new investigation,

THERE ARE ALREADY NEW INVESTIGATIONS - BUGLIOSI ESTIMATES THERE ARE OVER 100 PEOPLE ACTIVELY AND FULLTIME INVESTIGATING THE JFK ASSASSINATION AT THIS TIME...ITS A MATTER OF GETTING AN OFFICIAL INVESTIGIATON GOING. GRAND JURY IS BEST BET, AS ALL OTHER AVENUES HAVE BEEN TRIED AND FAILED.

filing a civil lawsuit that targets a high-profile figure for their involvement

I HAVE A LETTER FROM JAMES TAGUE, AS A LIVING VICTIM OF WHOEVER KILLED JFK, GIVING COPA OR ANY US ATTORNEY TO FILE A CIVIL SUIT IN HIS NAME FOR THE FAILURE OF THE GOVERNMENT TO PROTECT HIM AND THE PRESIDENT AND SUBJECT THE PRESIDENT AND HIM TO HARM AND FOR NOT IDENTIFYING AND PROSECUTING THOSE RESPONSIBLE FOR INFLICTING HARM ON THEM BOTH. BUT I HAVE YET TO FIND AN ATTORNEY WHO CAN FIGURE OUT A WAY TO MAKE THIS CIVIL CASE WORK. THE OSWALD DAUGHTERS ALSO HAVE A CASE AGAINST THE DALLAS POLICE.

(all those who claim GHWB was involved - do any of them have the nerve to sue him??),

EASIER TO SUE POSNER OR BUGLIOSI IN A LIBEL SUIT.

trying to inject the issue into the upcoming Presidential elections,

LIKE I SAID, BEST NOT TO ASK CANDIDATES THEIR OPINION ON WHO KILLED JFK, BUT RATHER SOMETHING THEY CAN ACT ON NOW - WHAT IS THEIR OPINION OF THE FAILURE OF THE GOVERNMENT TO ENFORCE THE JFK ACT? WHAT DO THEY THINK ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT'S SECRET RECORDS ON THE ASSASSINATIONS? THAT WILL PUT THEM ON THE SPOT FOR SOMETHING.

making sure the issue is raised on every radio and TV call-in show, every newspaper editorial page.

THAT'S EVERYONE'S RESPONSIBILITY.

I RECENTLY FOUND A LETTER TO THE EDITOR I WROTE AND THAT THEY PUBLISHED IN THE LA TIMES EDITORAL PAGE ON APRIL 17 (BOP ANNIVERSY), 1992 IN RESPONSE TO RICHARD MOSK'S EARLIER OP-ED PIECE "DISTORTIONS WILL CONTINUE NO MATTER WHAT)," THAT I WILL POST LATER AS AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT I MEAN.

The issue has to be framed in a way that highlights its importance to our national character, or for the sake of history or something else that resonates.

"I KNOW OF NO SAFE DEPOSITORY OF THE ULTIMATE POWERS OF SOCIETY BUT THE PEOPLE THEMSELVES, AND IF WE THINK THEM NOT ENLIGHTENED ENOUGH TO EXERCISE THEIR CONTROL WITH A WHOLESOME DISCRETION, THE REMEDY IS NOT TO TAKE IT FROM THEM, BUT TO INFORM THEIR DISCRETION."

NOW WHAT'S THE NATIONAL SECURITY EXCUSE FOR WITH HOLDING THE JOANNIDES AND JMWAVE RECORDS AGAIN?

It's been a long time since the JFK issue has been meaningful to most people - American Idol garners a larger investment of emotion and thought.

WE CAN GET THE JFK ASSASSINATION DISCUSSED ON TALK SHOWS - DAVID TALBOT IS TAPING FRESH AIR WITH TERRY GROSS ON PBS FM RADIO TODAY - THE TOPIC SHOULD ALSO SOON BE ON MORNING TALK SHOWS, THE NEW LEGAL TALK SHOWS.

The issue has to compete with a lot of noise - and to do that, it has to strike a chord that cuts through that noise. Is it patriotism? Revenge? Righteous anger?

DAVID TALBOT IS RIGHT ABOUT THE NOISE BUGLIOSI IS MAKING, IT JUST PLAYS INTO OUR HAND IF WE ARE TO EMPHASIZE THE MOST IMPORTANT UNRESOLVED ISSUES AND GET CONGRESSIONAL HEARINGS ON OPENING THE FILES.

In my opinion, the absence of this type of potent trigger will doom the effort. It's not just about doing the right thing. In our current environment, it's also about finding a way to persuade the public to join the crusade. They're going to need a new reason.

IF YOU READ THE CIA PROPAGANDA SPECIALISTS, THEY TELL YOU HOW TO MANIPULATE PUBLIC OPINION, AND IF WE ARE TO SUCCEED IN THIS EFFORT IN THIS ROUND - WE MUST REFOCUS THE ISSUE FROM BLAMING ANYONE FOR KILLING JFK TO SIMPLY OPEN THE FILES AND LETS SEE WHAT'S THERE. THAT'S THE PATRIOTIC THING TO DO.

[Guest Mark Valenti]

Bill,

Right on, amen, oh yeah and other exclamations!