Mars a giant step, but 'doable'

[Craig Lamson]

Well, if you infringe copyright laws, then that's what you have to expect. No reason Jarrah cannot use the footage that is in the public domain. If he wants better resolution, he can work to clean up the video exactly like Spacecraft Films did.

That's all fine in theory Evan ... but svector ( who is pro Apollo ) has used the same exact SpaceCraft Films material , yet NOTHING is ever done to stop him ...

Mark Gray of SpaceCraft Films even posted a comment on Jarrah's chanel , thanking Jarrah for letting him know that svector also infringed on his copyright and he would look into it .... but svectors LL series ( usings Grey's copyrighted material ) is still right there on YouTube ... and no one suspended his account for breaking the rules .

So I'm afraid the reason of " copyright infringement " was just the excuse used by Mark Grey to try to stop Jarrah from making a fool out of both him and nasa .

But not to worry ... Jarrah has opened up another account on YouTube and is downloading all of his videos again ... and will now use nasa's "public domain " material to bust out their Apollo scam .

greenamgoos also has put the Apollo 15 flag swinging in the breeze video back up again , so if you all don't mind , I will start a new topic here on this subject and get this off of Lamson's original unrelated topic .

Then you can all play your condescending , patronizing " show us the math Duane " games there , instead of on this thread ...and if you would like to copy your posts on this thread, to move the the new one , that would be fine .

I don't think you understand how copyright works Duane. Mark Gray is the owner of the copyright for the material he produced for his series of DVD's. As such HE and HE ALONE can decide who can and cannot use his work. After all he owns it and as such can do with it as he pleases. So if he decided that svector can use his work, that is his right. Also should he decide that Jarrah CAN'T use his work, that is also his right. As the owner of said copyright Mark can decide to charge for the use of his material, he can give usage rights away for free and he can decide to deny rights to other parties...why?...because the material is HIS.

I'm not suprised to see him crush Jarrah and Greenmaggos. Why because he COULD! They were using his rights protected material WITHOUT HIS CONCENT!

Edited July 28, 2007 by Craig Lamson

[Duane Daman]

I don't think you understsand that "copyright infringement " was only an excuse uised by Mark Grey , to try to stop Jarrah White from exposing the faked , and very EDITED Apollo footage ... Grey showed up on Jarrah White's chanel to attack and insult him ... Then when he lost the argument and was made a fool of , he decided to order a take down of Jarrah's video .

The fact that Grey has control of nasa's public domain material is unfortunate , but I have found out from my friend David Percy, how he can obtain the same original nasa footage , without using Grey's documentary .

Edited July 28, 2007 by Duane Daman

[Craig Lamson]

I don't think you understsand that "copyright infringement " was only an excuse uised by Mark Grey , to try to stop Jarrah White from exposing the faked , and very EDITED Apollo footage ... Grey showed up on Jarrah White's chanel to attack and insult him ... Then when he lost the argument and was made a fool of , he decided to order a take down of Jarrah's video .

The fact that Gray has control of nasa's public domain material is unfortunate , but I have found out from my friend David Percy, how he can obtain the same original nasa footage , without using Grey's documentary .

Wow! One more time...in the hopes it makes it past your eyes and into your brain. Jarrah used copyrighted material without permission. Gray OWNS the rights to all of the material on his DVD's. When Jarrah purchased his copies of Grays DVD's he was BOUND by the limited rights granted to him by Gray. Those rights did not include using the material on the dvd's in another production. Fair use MIGHT come into play but not until decided upon by a court of law. Bottom line it it was well with Marks rights as the owner of the copyright to stop Jarrah from using it WITHOUT his permission. When will you guys ever learn?

Finally Gray does not have 'control" of ANY NASA material. What he controls is the MATERIAL CONTAINED ON HIS DVD's. Can you understand the difference?

BTW, I'm just about ready to post my study showing the ignorance of both WHite and Percy's claims about that pesky Apollo shaodw problem. Can't wait to see them try and spin their way out of this one! Percy's words will be coming back to haunt him!

[Dave Greer]

Do you have any idea how much of a ridiculous geek you really are ? LOL

Is there any particular reason why you decided to go from pretending to be pleasant to childish, schoolyard name-calling? I guess the pretence was just too hard to keep up, but award yourself one silver star for managing about a week.

Remind me, which of the 25 rules of a disinformationist was this again?

[Duane Daman]

Craig ... Wow ... Sorry to hear about your health problems ... That could very well explain why you're such a hateful , miserable and vindictive person on these discussion forums .... You can post all the "pesky shadow Apollo problem" nonsence you please here , but I doubt that Jack will even bother to play your game and David Percy couldn't be bothered wasting his time reading , much less replying to your character assassinations and hate campaigne against him and his evidence which exposes the Apollo photographic hoax .... What acclaimed role did you play in the making of the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal again ? ... Advisor , was it ? .. LOL

I understand perfectly why Mark Grey orderd a take down of Jarrah White's video , exposing the EDITED Apollo photography , and so does everyone else who has no doubt that the Apollo photography was faked ... and it had NOTHING to do with copyright infringement .

Dave ... Where is your sense of humor ? ...I see that you didn't even bother to quote the fun part of my post , but just the part which hurt your feelings .... Sorry , but your flag "experiment" was ridiculous , even by your standards .

How desperate the defenders of the Apollo debacle have become ... The way you all conduct yourselves on the Apllohaoax forum is quite disgraceful ... It's one thing to attempt to refute someone's evidence , but very childish to attack and insult them personally , like the way you have Jarrah White ... It doesn't feel good does it ?

[Evan Burton]

Dave ... I took my good ole' boys Confederate "rebel " flag , scotched taped it ( nasa's favorite method of displaying flags ) to a curtain rod across the top of it , then taped it the other way to my fishing pole and then drilled a hole in my floor to plant it in my living room !!

Then I bounced past it in slow motion to see if it would swing with the air currents , like it did in the faked Apollo 15 video clip ... and guess what ?? .. It moved with wake of air currents that were kicked up as I bounced past it in slow motion !!! .... but guess what ??? .. I forgot to count the number of times that it ocilated before it DAMPENED !!

So I waited for it to stop swinging and then bounced past it again in slow motion and counted the ocilations this time , and guess what ??? .. It was only TEN instead of TWENTY !?!?

Then I remembered that I hadn't FILMED it SLOW MOTION , so I needed to DOUBLE the number of ocilations and guess what ??? ...That equals TWENTY TIMES THAT MY REBEL FLAG OCILATED !!!

Do you have any idea how much of a ridiculous geek you really are ? LOL

Excellent - so what was the maximum distance away from the flag someone could be before their movement did not produce any movement in the flag?

Can you give a rough estimate of what speed you used for the person walking past? Very difficult to do unless you filmed it, calculated it, etc, but even an estimate helps give an idea of what speed you chose.

[Duane Daman]

Thank you for quoting the fun part of my post ... You do realize it was a joke on Dave's silly experiment , I hope ?

I will start a new topic thread on this in a few days and then you all can play more games with this very damaging evidence against the authenticity of the Apollo 15 video footage .... Hopefully I will be able to provide all the evidence you require to prove that the Apollo 15 flag video was filmed in an atmosphere ... and that the reason it swung ( 20 ocilations ) was because of air currents produced by the astronot as he bounced past it in slow motion on the moonset .

[Evan Burton]

Craig ... Wow ... Sorry to hear about your health problems ... That could very well explain why you're such a hateful , miserable and vindictive person on these discussion forums .... You can post all the "pesky shadow Apollo problem" nonsence you please here , but I doubt that Jack will even bother to play your game and David Percy couldn't be bothered wasting his time reading , much less replying to your character assassinations and hate campaigne against him and his evidence which exposes the Apollo photographic hoax .... What acclaimed role did you play in the making of the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal again ? ... Advisor , was it ? .. LOL

I understand perfectly why Mark Grey orderd a take down of Jarrah White's video , exposing the EDITED Apollo photography , and so does everyone else who has no doubt that the Apollo photography was faked ... and it had NOTHING to do with copyright infringement .

Dave ... Where is your sense of humor ? ...I see that you didn't even bother to quote the fun part of my post , but just the part which hurt your feelings .... Sorry , but your flag "experiment" was ridiculous , even by your standards .

How desperate the defenders of the Apollo debacle have become ... The way you all conduct yourselves on the Apllohaoax forum is quite disgraceful ... It's one thing to attempt to refute someone's evidence , but very childish to attack and insult them personally , like the way you have Jarrah White ... It doesn't feel good does it ?

Duane - attack the idea, not the person, otherwise we will have a free-for-all. You insult people and then berate others for insulting behaviour, all in the same post. Seeing who can best insult one another is not providing evidence for our respective views.

I've provided comments and corrections to the ALSJ as well, so any insinuations you are making about Craig apply to me as well. And to a number of other people. If we appreciate the work that has gone into it, do something to help the ALSJ, and then have our own efforts acknowledged in return... well, what is wrong with that? What does it imply?

You yourself have been mentioned on the Aulis webpages; what should we draw from that? Would it be fair to imply that you are a paid agent for Aulis, Percy, etc? You certainly sing their praises. Or is it possible you appreciate their work, and have been recognised by them for the work you have done? People in glass houses, etc.

Did you examine the differences in attribution between the various videos? That may have played a part. Also, as Craig says, if Mark wants to hit these guys for breaking the law then he can do so. If he doesn't want prosecute someone else, then he can do so. It's his material, he can do as he pleases, and doesn't need to be even-handed. No-one ever said life was fair.

So let's have a look at this great cover-up, shall we?

Is any of the "incriminating" footage been withdrawn from public view? No. The open source footage is available to Jarrah, greenmagoos (one in the same?), or anyone else who wants to use it.

Is anyone preventing people from examining the same footage from the DVDs, or from the open source material, and supporting whatever claims are being made? No. People can make the same claims, and can show the same footage - as long as it is the open source material. They can examine the DVDs all they want. If they want to use it publicly, then they should approach the copyright owner for permission (I wouldn't give it myself, but Mark may do so; who knows).

Is there anything preventing people from taking the open source material and improving the resolution themselves? No. If they want to put the effort into improving the quality, then they can do so.

So the sum result of all these claims of people being silenced is balderdash; they have been simply told to use their own work.

[Evan Burton]

Thank you for quoting the fun part of my post ... You do realize it was a joke on Dave's silly experiment , I hope ?

I will start a new topic thread on this in a few days and then you all can play more games with this very damaging evidence against the authenticity of the Apollo 15 video footage .... Hopefully I will be able to provide all the evidence you require to prove that the Apollo 15 flag video was filmed in an atmosphere ... and that the reason it swung ( 20 ocilations ) was because of air currents produced by the astronot as he bounced past it in slow motion on the moonset .

No, I thought you were being serious. Doing such an experiment is one of the ways to ascertain what was correct and what was not. To use a comparison, do you think the JFK researchers would accept a simple statement with regard to a testable proposition, or would they conduct the experiment themselves?

[Craig Lamson]

Craig ... Wow ... Sorry to hear about your health problems ... That could very well explain why you're such a hateful , miserable and vindictive person on these discussion forums .... You can post all the "pesky shadow Apollo problem" nonsence you please here , but I doubt that Jack will even bother to play your game and David Percy couldn't be bothered wasting his time reading , much less replying to your character assassinations and hate campaigne against him and his evidence which exposes the Apollo photographic hoax .... What acclaimed role did you play in the making of the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal again ? ... Advisor , was it ? .. LOL

I understand perfectly why Mark Grey orderd a take down of Jarrah White's video , exposing the EDITED Apollo photography , and so does everyone else who has no doubt that the Apollo photography was faked ... and it had NOTHING to do with copyright infringement .

Dave ... Where is your sense of humor ? ...I see that you didn't even bother to quote the fun part of my post , but just the part which hurt your feelings .... Sorry , but your flag "experiment" was ridiculous , even by your standards .

How desperate the defenders of the Apollo debacle have become ... The way you all conduct yourselves on the Apllohaoax forum is quite disgraceful ... It's one thing to attempt to refute someone's evidence , but very childish to attack and insult them personally , like the way you have Jarrah White ... It doesn't feel good does it ?

I'm doing just fine Duane, just can't run much anymore. I'm not hateful and I'm sure not miserable, quite the opposite to be sure. Vidictive..LOL! not even close! I don't have alot of use for people who post blatant misinformation or flat out disinformation. White and Percy are among the worst! You on the other had simply don't know any better.

White and Percy can do as they please with whatever I post. That will not change the fact that their handwaving on that peaky shadow will be shown to be just that, ignorant handwaving that might fool the gullible but thats about it. Their reputations as 'experts" is about to take ANOTHER serious hit.

Duane, you do understand that Mark does not represent his dvd's as showing UNEDITED video. Of course his work is editted and he is upfront about it. You guys are going off about nothing...once again.

Man I had to laugh when you went off about Apollohoax considering the mean and obscenity laced replies your friends post on youtube. You guys should be ashamed. Oh and plese let us know WHEN YOU migh actually attempt to refute some evidence..that will be a first!

[Dave Greer]

Dave ... Where is your sense of humor ? ...I see that you didn't even bother to quote the fun part of my post , but just the part which hurt your feelings .... Sorry , but your flag "experiment" was ridiculous , even by your standards .

Ah, you were being humourous by accusing me of being a "ridiculous geek"! And here's silly old me thinking you were trying to get a rise out of me! What a ribtickler you are! Do try that one on some complete strangers next time you venture out in public, I see it as your route to popularity!

Oh, remember rule 5 of the 25 rules of disinformation? 5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. Guess it doesn't apply to "Apollo truthseekers", hmmmm? Hoist by your own petard, old bean!

The flag "experiment" wasn't performed under scientific or controlled conditions, I wasn't trying to measure anything quantitatively. It was a qualitative experiment purely to satisfy my own curiosity. That's why I asked you to try it yourself, to prove to yourself that the flag motion in the Apollo 15 footage is exceedingly unlikely to be the result of draughts caused by the astronaut moving in an atmosphere.

Guess you don't have the guts to do that. Guess I'm not really surprised.

[Dave Greer]

Craig ... Wow ... Sorry to hear about your health problems ... That could very well explain why you're such a hateful , miserable and vindictive person on these discussion forums .... You can post all the "pesky shadow Apollo problem" nonsence you please here , but I doubt that Jack will even bother to play your game and David Percy couldn't be bothered wasting his time reading , much less replying to your character assassinations and hate campaigne against him and his evidence which exposes the Apollo photographic hoax .... What acclaimed role did you play in the making of the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal again ? ... Advisor , was it ? .. LOL

I understand perfectly why Mark Grey orderd a take down of Jarrah White's video , exposing the EDITED Apollo photography , and so does everyone else who has no doubt that the Apollo photography was faked ... and it had NOTHING to do with copyright infringement .

Dave ... Where is your sense of humor ? ...I see that you didn't even bother to quote the fun part of my post , but just the part which hurt your feelings .... Sorry , but your flag "experiment" was ridiculous , even by your standards .

How desperate the defenders of the Apollo debacle have become ... The way you all conduct yourselves on the Apllohaoax forum is quite disgraceful ... It's one thing to attempt to refute someone's evidence , but very childish to attack and insult them personally , like the way you have Jarrah White ... It doesn't feel good does it ?

Duane, you do understand the meaning of the term irony? Do I really have to politely point out to you for the umpteenth time that you're guilty of doing in this very post what you accuse others of doing? If it's very childish to attack and personally insult people, why do you always resort to it? How about swallowing a spoonful of your own advice for a change?

[Duane Daman]

Dave .... Yes, I know what irony is and I also know what mind games are .. and you and your pro Apollo pals , both here and on the other forums , are the best in the business when it comes to playing games .

Craig ... I have no control over what "my friends" post on YouTube ... but if you're looking for insidious insults and mind games posted there , you need look no further than SVECTOR , the biggest pro Apollo defender of them all !... In fact , if you were at all honest ( which of course you're not ) you would realize that the game svector plays , is to taunt and ridicule the HB's to the point of angering them into insulting him in return ... It's the same MO on every forum where the nasa defenders gather together to bash the crap out of those who believe that Apollo was a hoax .

BTW , your character assassinations of David Percy and Jack White are quite pathetic ... Try not to be so obvious in your fear of those who know the truth and aren't afraid to make a stand against government scams .

[Evan Burton]

Dave .... Yes, I know what irony is and I also know what mind games are .. and you and your pro Apollo pals , both here and on the other forums , are the best in the business when it comes to playing games .

Craig ... I have no control over what "my friends" post on YouTube ... but if you're looking for insidious insults and mind games posted there , you need look no further than SVECTOR , the biggest pro Apollo defender of them all !... In fact , if you were at all honest ( which of course you're not ) you would realize that the game svector plays , is to taunt and ridicule the HB's to the point of angering them into insulting him in return ... It's the same MO on every forum where the nasa defenders gather together to bash the crap out of those who believe that Apollo was a hoax .

BTW , your character assassinations of David Percy and Jack White are quite pathetic ... Try not to be so obvious in your fear of those who know the truth and aren't afraid to make a stand against government scams .

I'm quite sick of your playing the victim, Duane. It's quite pathetic. If your "evidence" is so solid, don't you think it could withstand attack? Ask people who have submitted a thesis for a Doctorate; there are a few on this board.

Every time you are called to account about your claims, when you are asked to provide verifiable evidence, you start claiming "disinformation" or "pro-Apollo" or suchlike.

Do you actually believe people on this board, and the lurkers, fail to notice? That they believe you are being victimised in some way?

I think not. They are well aware of the veracity of your claims.

Just to drive the point home, I once again offer up my challenge which you ignore: a debate, just me & you, on this board. I'll have to be subject to all the rules of the board regarding civility, personal attacks, etc - you won't be. You can attack me at will. The only restriction will be saying something that might make the board legally liable in some way (although not from me; I waive all rights in that regard). I won't have any mod powers, and would ask other mods NOT to interfere in any way EXCEPT that my posts must be moderated if I infringe the rules of the board (civility, etc). You get the bash the hell out of me, I get no support from "pro-Apollo" factions. The cards are stacked all in your favour. My only defence is to be able to convince others through reasoned debate that my position is correct.

Are you confident enough to accept my challenge, or are you going to wooz out yet again?

[Craig Lamson]

Dave .... Yes, I know what irony is and I also know what mind games are .. and you and your pro Apollo pals , both here and on the other forums , are the best in the business when it comes to playing games .

Craig ... I have no control over what "my friends" post on YouTube ... but if you're looking for insidious insults and mind games posted there , you need look no further than SVECTOR , the biggest pro Apollo defender of them all !... In fact , if you were at all honest ( which of course you're not ) you would realize that the game svector plays , is to taunt and ridicule the HB's to the point of angering them into insulting him in return ... It's the same MO on every forum where the nasa defenders gather together to bash the crap out of those who believe that Apollo was a hoax .

BTW , your character assassinations of David Percy and Jack White are quite pathetic ... Try not to be so obvious in your fear of those who know the truth and aren't afraid to make a stand against government scams .

You may have no "control" but you sure have no problem back slapping them. And I 've yet to see you complain about their actions. I've spent more than enough time at those YouTube sites to know its not svector who is doing the taunting and ridicule, but rather the hoaxers. And why? Simply because they lack the ability to argue the facts. Take Jarrah and his silly "focal length" argument. BTW, did he EVER sdmit he was wrong? Hoax believers get the crap bashed out of them because they mostly fail at the simple things like photography and physics. You arguing the photographic record is a perfect example.

Character assassination? Would that be something like "In fact , if you were at all honest ( which of course you're not] " ? I just show via hard empirical data that folks like Percy and White don't have the expertise they claim. Their attempt to spin their way out of tha pesky shadow problem via unsupported handwaving is a perfect example. Can you tell me the last time Jack actually posted empirical data to back up ANY fo his claims? Just wondering? DO you believe them on this issue and why?

Edited July 29, 2007 by Craig Lamson