Jack White Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 PS...always a mystery to me is why he chose that position ratherthan the Blackdogman position. Gordon Arnold said that as he was looking for a spot to film from the RR yard side of the fence that the same man came up to him again and said that he wanted him out of there altogether. Gordon said that was when he went around to the other side of the fence. So to answer your question - Arnold was told not to be back in the RR yard at all, thus he couldn't take Badge Man's position ... or so he believed. Bill Reread...I said Blackdogman position...not Badgeman's position. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 (edited) PS...always a mystery to me is why he chose that position ratherthan the Blackdogman position. Gordon Arnold said that as he was looking for a spot to film from the RR yard side of the fence that the same man came up to him again and said that he wanted him out of there altogether. Gordon said that was when he went around to the other side of the fence. So to answer your question - Arnold was told not to be back in the RR yard at all, thus he couldn't take Badge Man's position ... or so he believed. Bill Reread...I said Blackdogman position...not Badgeman's position. Jack Sorry, Jack - I misread the post. One reason that Badge Man would have stayed behind the fence is that he remain near the guy with the fake secret service badge. It might have also been less noticeable to stand in the RR yard with a rifle - compared to standing out on the walkway not 15 to 20 feet from Zapruder in one direction and with Hudson in the other. Bill Edited August 3, 2007 by Bill Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Scull Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 You are twisting my words..I am not saying he is large in comparison to Badgeman. Stop trying to deceive the Forum readers by suggesting otherwise. I am saying that he looks as large as when he appeared on TMWKK which I think is strange when you say he was not a large man when he was 22 on Nov 22nd 1963 Duncan Duncan, I have not been following this thread closely. Has it morphed into a critique of the validity of Gordon Arnold's story? Over on the current "Ed Hoffman's Activities and Observations, Fact or Fiction?" thread, someone cited Arnold as a source for verification of the existence of a pathway down along the picket fence during the shooting. I noted that in TMWKK Arnold straddled the steam pipe in comfort when Arnold was challenged by a CIA agent. But, as you may not know Weitzman reported that immediately after the gunfire Weitzman burned his hands on this same steam pipe. Was Arnold wearing an asbestos suspensor shield at the time? Of course, during the filming of TMWKK the steam pipe was defunct & cold. I tend to find much of Arnold's account hard to believe. Do you credit Arnold's story, in general, Duncan? Miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Roberdeau Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 (edited) Good Day.... http://members.aol.com:/droberdeau/JFK/BON...PINGarnold.html http://members.aol.com/droberdeau/JFK/addi...noldCLAIMS.html http://members.aol.com/DRoberdeau/JFK/NOTa...llCORNERnix.gif Best Regards in Research, Don Don Roberdeau U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, "Big John," Plank Walker Sooner, or later, The Truth emerges Clearly ROSEMARY WILLIS 2nd Headsnap; Westward, Ultrafast, & Towards the "Grassy Knoll" Dealey Plaza Professionally-surveyed Map Detailing Victims locations, Witnesses, Photographers, Suspected trajectories, Evidentiary artifacts, etc 4 Principles T ogether E veryone A chieves M ore For the United States "When you have eliminated the impossible, what remains, however improbable, must be the truth." - Sherlock Holmes, "A Study In Scarlet" (1887) by A.C. DOYLE Edited August 3, 2007 by Don Roberdeau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 Do you credit Arnold's story, in general, Duncan?Miles The truth is Miles, I don't know..I find it strange, and against human nature, that after such an event, someone would just walk away and not tell anyone about this historic event until years later. I mean. if you were there would you have told someone? anyone?..I think you would have, I would have told someone, so... the more I think about it, the more i'm tending to stray towards the Arnold story being a work of fiction. Duncan Arnold was IN THE ARMY, home for a very brief visit to his mother, ENROUTE TO HIS NEW DUTY IN ALASKA, where he arrived three days later. He was not around long enough to tell many people. There were about 500 people in Dealey Plaza. How many of them have you heard of? Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miles Scull Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 Do you credit Arnold's story, in general, Duncan?Miles The truth is Miles, I don't know..I find it strange, and against human nature, that after such an event, someone would just walk away and not tell anyone about this historic event until years later. I mean. if you were there would you have told someone? anyone?..I think you would have, I would have told someone, so... the more I think about it, the more i'm tending to stray towards the Arnold story being a work of fiction. Duncan Duncan, I see your idea. Yes, that's right. You mean that Arnold would have told someone, even if that someone was, for example, an army buddy, in which case that buddy, realizing the enormity of the deed, would have alerted army authorities or told yet other soldiers this astounding information, even if Arnold continued his strange quietude. To coin a phrase: Someone would have talked. Just doesn't tally up right. Miles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Roberdeau Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 (edited) Duncan MacRae said: Do you credit Arnold's story, in general, Duncan? Miles The truth is Miles, I don't know..I find it strange, and against human nature, that after such an event, someone would just walk away and not tell anyone about this historic event until years later. I mean. if you were there would you have told someone? anyone?..I think you would have, I would have told someone, so... the more I think about it, the more i'm tending to stray towards the Arnold story being a work of fiction. Duncan Good Day Duncan.... While I do not subscribe to ARNOLD's, supposed, claims.... to be fair and accurate, ARNOLD did claim in at least one interview (possibly the 6-6-89 SFM oral history quoted interview "GORDON ARNOLD - Additional Claims about the Knoll-Wall" @ http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=1331&hl=roberdeau&page=1 ) in which ARNOLD claimed that he did tell several persons within days of the attack. Additionally, when I recently located and completed a very lengthy interview with ARNOLD's son, he also stated that ARNOLD also publicly related his claims to other persons ---- In fact, the son stated to me that ARNOLD told his story several times when he spoke to his son's and daughter's elementary-to-high school classes and their many adult teachers during many years, which struck me as very odd, considering, that ARNOLD apologists claim he did not publicly speak about his claims because he feared for his and his Loved One's lives ------ yet, here the son confirmed to me that ARNOLD was doing, exactly, that ------ speaking publicly about his claims. More will follow when time available... Best Regards in Research, + ++Don Donald Roberdeau United States Navy U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, plank walker Sooner, or later, The Truth emerges clearlyFor your key considerations + independent determinations....Homepages Website: "Men of Courage": President Kennedy-elimination Evidence, Witnesses, Photographers, Outstanding Researchers Discoveries, Suspects, + Key Considerations.... http://droberdeau.blogspot.com/2009/08/1-men-of-courage-jfk-assassination_09.html The Dealey Plaza Detailed Map: Documented 11-22-63 Victims Precise Locations + Reactions, Evidence, Witnesses Locations, Photographers, Suspected Bullet Trajectories, Outstanding Researchers Discoveries, + Important Information + Key Considerations, in One Convenient Resource.... http://i.imgur.com/rGmmWxD.gif ( updated map, + new information ) Discovery: Very Close JFK Assassination Witness ROSEMARY WILLIS's Zapruder Film Documented 2nd Head Snap: West, Ultrafast, and Directly Towards the Grassy Knoll .... http://droberdeau.blogspot.com/2011/01/discovery-close-jfk-assassination.html Visual Report: The First Bullet Impact Into President Kennedy: While JFK was Still Hidden Under the "Magic-limbed-ricochet-tree".... http://i.imgur.com/rfRH5jX.gif Visual Report: Reality Versus C.A.D. : the Real World, versus, Garbage-in-garbage-out.... http://i.imgur.com/r8Ga26x.gif T ogetherE veryoneA chievesM oreFor the United States: http://www.dhs.gov "When you have eliminated the impossible, what remains, however improbable, must be the truth." - Sherlock Holmes, "A Study In Scarlet" (1887) by A.C. DOYLE Edited January 8, 2017 by Don Roberdeau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 Do you credit Arnold's story, in general, Duncan?Miles The truth is Miles, I don't know..I find it strange, and against human nature, that after such an event, someone would just walk away and not tell anyone about this historic event until years later. I mean. if you were there would you have told someone? anyone?..I think you would have, I would have told someone, so... the more I think about it, the more i'm tending to stray towards the Arnold story being a work of fiction. Duncan Good Day Duncan.... While I do not subscribe to ARNOLD's, supposed, claims.... to be fair and accurate, ARNOLD did claim in at least one interview (possibly the 6-6-89 SFM oral history quoted interview "Gordon Arnold's Additional Claims about the Knoll-Wall" that I provided the Internet link for) in which ARNOLD claimed that he did tell several persons within days of the attack. Additionally, when I recently located and completed a very lengthy interview with ARNOLD's son, he also stated that ARNOLD also publicly related his claims to other persons----In fact, the son stated to me that ARNOLD told his story several times when he spoke to his son's school classes over the years, which struck me as somewhat odd, considering, that ARNOLD apologists claim he did not publicly speak about his claims, yet, here the son confirmed to me that ARNOLD was doing, exactly, that. More will follow when time available... Best Regards in Research, Don Don Roberdeau U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, "Big John," Plank Walker Sooner, or later, The Truth emerges Clearly ROSEMARY WILLIS 2nd Headsnap; Westward, Ultrafast, & Towards the "Grassy Knoll" Dealey Plaza Professionally-surveyed Map Detailing Victims locations, Witnesses, Photographers, Suspected trajectories, Evidentiary artifacts, etc 4 Principles T ogether E veryone A chieves M ore For the United States "When you have eliminated the impossible, what remains, however improbable, must be the truth." - Sherlock Holmes, "A Study In Scarlet" (1887) by A.C. DOYLE Of course he talked about it to LOTS of people after he got out of the service and back in Dallas. Here is how he came to the attention of researchers... Dallas researcher Howard Upchurch was on jury duty. While waiting in the venire room, prospective jurors started talking about the assassination, when one of the jury pool said, "I was there that day". Howard and others questioned him and he told the story you are familiar with. Howard phoned Earl Golz of the DMN, who wrote a feature on Gordon's story. Most researchers initially tended to doubt the story BECAUSE NO PHOTOS CONFIRMED HIS PRESENCE. However, as other information was developed, particularly the Moorman images, many of us were persuaded of his veracity. Gary Mack, initially a doubter, interviewed Arnold several times, and was convinced by things told to him that only someone who was there would have known. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 Of course he talked about it to LOTS of people after he got out of the service and back in Dallas. Here is how he came to the attention of researchers... Dallas researcher Howard Upchurch was on jury duty. While waiting in the venire room, prospective jurors started talking about the assassination, when one of the jury pool said, "I was there that day". Howard and others questioned him and he told the story you are familiar with. Howard phoned Earl Golz of the DMN, who wrote a feature on Gordon's story. Most researchers initially tended to doubt the story BECAUSE NO PHOTOS CONFIRMED HIS PRESENCE. However, as other information was developed, particularly the Moorman images, many of us were persuaded of his veracity. Gary Mack, initially a doubter, interviewed Arnold several times, and was convinced by things told to him that only someone who was there would have known. Jack It was through Gary Mack that I learned that Gordon had told his family and friends of what he witnessed on the knoll. Gordon, wife, then girlfriend, was one of those people. Gary also has pointed out (and I agree) that Gordon told details of his experience on the knoll that had not been photographically confirmed until years later. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack White Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 Do you credit Arnold's story, in general, Duncan?Miles The truth is Miles, I don't know..I find it strange, and against human nature, that after such an event, someone would just walk away and not tell anyone about this historic event until years later. I mean. if you were there would you have told someone? anyone?..I think you would have, I would have told someone, so... the more I think about it, the more i'm tending to stray towards the Arnold story being a work of fiction. Duncan Good Day Duncan.... While I do not subscribe to ARNOLD's, supposed, claims.... to be fair and accurate, ARNOLD did claim in at least one interview (possibly the 6-6-89 SFM oral history quoted interview "Gordon Arnold's Additional Claims about the Knoll-Wall" that I provided the Internet link for) in which ARNOLD claimed that he did tell several persons within days of the attack. Additionally, when I recently located and completed a very lengthy interview with ARNOLD's son, he also stated that ARNOLD also publicly related his claims to other persons----In fact, the son stated to me that ARNOLD told his story several times when he spoke to his son's school classes over the years, which struck me as somewhat odd, considering, that ARNOLD apologists claim he did not publicly speak about his claims, yet, here the son confirmed to me that ARNOLD was doing, exactly, that----speaking publicly about his claims. More will follow when time available... Best Regards in Research, Don Don Roberdeau U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, "Big John," Plank Walker Sooner, or later, The Truth emerges Clearly ROSEMARY WILLIS 2nd Headsnap; Westward, Ultrafast, & Towards the "Grassy Knoll" Dealey Plaza Professionally-surveyed Map Detailing Victims locations, Witnesses, Photographers, Suspected trajectories, Evidentiary artifacts, etc 4 Principles T ogether E veryone A chieves M ore For the United States "When you have eliminated the impossible, what remains, however improbable, must be the truth." - Sherlock Holmes, "A Study In Scarlet" (1887) by A.C. DOYLE Thanks for the info Don..It's just my opinion, but if he did indeed tell some people after a few days, don't you think his story would have spread like wildfire? Announcing in 1989 that he told people is an impossible thing to prove or disprove. Duncan No, his story would not have spread like wildfire. Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 Thanks for the info Don..It's just my opinion, but if he did indeed tell some people after a few days, don't you think his story would have spread like wildfire? Announcing in 1989 that he told people is an impossible thing to prove or disprove. Duncan Duncan, I am adopted and everyone around me knew it, but me .... I was 20 years old when I first heard of this, so no - not everything spreads as wildfire when kept between family and friends. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted August 3, 2007 Share Posted August 3, 2007 Exactly right Miles..Let's say I was in the tunnel in France where Diana was killed and seen some people ramming the car and murdering Diana, ( untraced paint marks were found from a car which apparently scraped her car ) and I had a good description of those people. Guess what I do?..I come back from my holiday and say NOTHING to ANYONE, then I decide 3 years later to tell someone, and then 15 years later the story goes public. Would I expect anyone to believe me?...No way Hose..What's my point?..Did Arnold just say.." Oh well it's just a president that's been murdered, and I had contact with 2 potential suspects who are more than likely the assassins as the bullets came from behind me, I'll keep this my little secret".....It's a crock"Duncan Instead of you guys looking at this as how you think you'd react - keep in mind that Arnold knew there was more than one shooter .... that a conspiracy had occurred, thus not all the assassins had been captured. Gordon didn't want his story to get out into the public mainstream and this is why Golz and Turner each had to do a lot of coaxing to get Arnold to even tell his story. In fact, a lot of people who were in Dealey Plaza didn't come forward because they knew something wasn't right in the official story that had been on the news on the afternoon of the shooting. So while it is nice to play the 'this is what I would have done' game - its really what Gordon Arnold thought and feared that is important. Just think about it ... Gordon had been prevented from coming onto the underpass by a federal agent. Then Gordon was approached again and told to get out of the RR yard altogether. Then the President is soon shot from someone behind Gordon or at least this is what Gordon must have thought. How soon afterwards does anyone think that it would have taken for Gordon to realize that the assassination was certainly bigger than he was. Even after all those years leading up to the Turner interview ... Gordon was emotional about it being discovered that the man who may have taken his film may have been one of the assassins. Gordon lived with that fear whereas I don't see how anyone seeing the crash of Dianna would have felt as if their life was in danger for talking about what they had seen. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Healy Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 Bill,Are there any other researchers who have commented positively on your analysis of of GA as BDM? In my opinion, the Arnold story and photo evidence along with the Dillard photo showing the t shirt wearing, short haired person Groden found in the depository window moments after the shooting are convincing evidence of conspiracy almost on their own. In the Badgeman photos, and the ones above aren't quite as clear, or possibly as large as some I've seen, I have thought for sometime that there appears to be another face peering around and over the right shoulder of the railroad worker. The face is slightly roundish and the right eye, cheek and nose are fairly discernable. In some photos he appears quite clearly and even may be wearing a hat. imo. I understand this could be an artifact of light or shadows, but the size of the head/face are consistent with Badgeman and the railroad worker. I respect your work and would enjoy any comment regarding this subject. Herb Herb, I can only think of a few people who have not understood the connection between Arnold and the Black Dog Man (BMD). Researchers from Robert Groden, Joan Mellen, William Law, Larry Hancock, Debra Conway, and etc., have seen these images and have said that after they saw my presentation that they had finally seen the connection and that I had convinced them that the two individuals were one in the same. Had it not been for the work Jack and gary had done with the Badge Man, then I may never have made the connection. It was when I created an overlay transparency of Arnold and the BDM that convinced me they were one in the same person. I have not seen another face in the Badge Man images other than what jack and Gary have shown. Bill Bill, It is encouraging to know that so many respected people concur with your finding. I hope Jack can post the Badgeman image he referred to in his post above. I don't know how to outline what I see, but maybe someone can. Do you see the face/image I am referring to? I am not asking you to agree that it is someone. I just would like to know if anyone else sees what I do. Herb Don't take Bill's word for it Herb, when you meet these people ask them why the Arnold figure in Moorman5 looks absolutley nothing like the BDM figure. Ask yourself too while your at it. And do us all a favour, next time you start kissing up to your hero in the middle of a thread where there are people who are disagreeing with him, don't say "he's proved it" like some inconsiderate ass, say "he's proved it to me"(you) & tell us how. Your post's might look like less of a distracting method then. There is only one connection between BDM & the shapes & shadows in Moorman5 but these guys have missed it by miles. They have almost completely bleached it out with this Arnold interpretation. But like you Herb, they're not interested because they've already made there minds up. If you have something to add to the discussion please do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 Duncan, I am adopted and everyone around me knew it, but me .... I was 20 years old when I first heard of this, so no - not everything spreads as wildfire when kept between family and friends. Bill No offence intended here Bill, but I would not class your adoption as a critical world event on the scale of the Kennedy assassination. Adoption procedures for the mental stability of kid, I would imagine run in a similar procedure in the U.SA. as it does here in the U.K. My brother and his wife have 2 adopted kids aged 8 and 5 years old. They don't know yet, but it's no big secret within or outwith the family circle. I don't see how you can make a comparison with something of this magnitude. Duncan Maybe Arnold's friends and family didn't have your view and didn't wish to sign Gordon's death warrant as long as that was a concern of his. As far as my adoption ... the point is that the family and friends managed to not give off a hint that I was adopted because that was what my parents wanted, thus no one betrayed them. Look how many other witnesses were never known about - they either didn't talk about being in Dealey Plaza when JFK was shot or the people who knew where these witnesses were had never ratted them out. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted August 4, 2007 Share Posted August 4, 2007 Don't take Bill's word for it Herb,when you meet these people ask them why the Arnold figure in Moorman5 looks absolutley nothing like the BDM figure. Ask yourself too while your at it. And do us all a favour, next time you start kissing up to your hero in the middle of a thread where there are people who are disagreeing with him, don't say "he's proved it" like some inconsiderate ass, say "he's proved it to me"(you) & tell us how. Your post's might look like less of a distracting method then. Alan, if you cannot cite correctly what has been written, then how can you learn by reading about the JFK assassination case??? Herb took no ones word for anything ... didn't you read his response. Dennis David and his group didn't take my word either, Groden, Law, Mellen, Beirma, Cummings, Hancock, and etc., got it, but not by taking my word for anything. It's OK if you don't get it. I won't say anything, but expect Miles to post a response crying for the moderators to tone down the foul language, unless he only whines when I use the word. Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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