Book Review: Definitive Proof: The Secret Service Murder Of President (JFK)

[Tim Gratz]

Well, Bernice, do we then agree that no inculpatory inferences can be drawn solely from the fact that secret service agents did not act as efficiently as we would have liked them to?

That I submit would be true even if it were not for the "hurdles" I suggested had to be leaped if one were to assume that there were several secret service agents involved in the assassination: hurdles so high that not even an Olympic pole-vaulter could jump them.

But from a conspiratorial POV, I could hypothetically accept the suggestion someone proposed on another thread that there could have been threats and plot rumors in Chicago, Miami, Tampa and maybe ones we are not even yet aware of just to create a false sense of security. That would be relatively easy for someone to accomplish, even anonymously.

And I could also see a plot to lower the reaction time of the agents by getting them to stay up too late in strip joints or just plain bars. We know that happened (the late hour partying I mean; I don't think there has been real evidence that the partying was part of the plot) but I don't THINK we know which agents were involved.

But creating a false sense of security through false alarms and lowering reaction time by lowering sleep time certainly seems like it would be good strategy for whoever did the planning.

[Alan Healy]

Are you upset because the theory of secret service complicity becomes ridiculously absurd when you take time to think of all that it meant: e.g., not one agent who was approached was unwilling to participate in a murder; each one approached was willing to risk his freedom and his family on the premise that no other approached agent would go to the authorities; and Greer and Kellerman were willing to ride in SS100 through the ambush. I mean, tell me someone who can really believe those things because if you provide me with their names I have this great bridge for sale that links Manhattan to Brooklyn, and I'll make a quick and cheap sale of it to both of them and I'll give you 25% of the profit for the referrals!

I believe Greer was ordered to bring the limo to a halt if JFK was still alive at a certain point.

I believe that the JFK's back wound was false & "they" not only created it but the SS fabricated support for it.

I believe the 2 large fragments found in the limo late that night were planted..... & many more besides.

I guess you have trouble with it Tim because you think the agents chosen would have had a chance to decline the offer.

People don't get chosen for work like this by chance, they are studied over years & when it comes down to it they are coerced, blackmailed &/or left no choice.

Anyway, you guess Greer would not drive into an ambush & I guess he would.

You guess he would have to be crazy to do that but I think he was shown how it would work beforehand most likely more than once.

Even most (probably almost all) lone nutters agree that separate shots to JFK and JC equal two shooters and ergo a conspiracy. Well Kellerman testified that he was sure (pretty sure?) JFK and JC were hit by separate shots. Now that MUST mean that he was NOT part of the conspiracy. (If he had been surely his payors would have told him if he did not change his story about the shot sequence when he testified before the WC they would sue to get their money back.)

Most modern day conspiracy buffs don't think of the murder of JFK as a perfect plan.

It had major problems from the start & they realise no one could of predicted the way it happened.

So there is a consensis that there was a major aftermath operation in effect & these cleaners were there from the start thinking on their feet.

Some of the reactions to problems were not perfect but they needed instant attention, so in hindsight one could say, "there is no way they would of done that" but the explanation is really simple.

Anyway,

what Kellerman said regarding the seperate shots is not even relevant to most. Most people realise that the magic bullet excuse would not be any part of any preconceived plan because it's so unbelievable.

That came much later from a seperate less intelligent source & with it's own seperate agenda.

I believe Kellerman became involved at a low "need to know" level sometime after the murder, either at Parkland, on AF1 or at Bethesda but I'm no expert.

Anyway you asked if someone believed it & I thought I'd share.

IMO Greer was in on it to ensure the success of the hit.

He may of had minor support duties after that but it's not like he made any decisions.

[Tim Gratz]

As they say, anything is possible, and certainly people can be coerced through threats of violence into doing things.

In order for your theory to make sense I think Greer would have had to have been coerced (perhaps by a threat to a family member) almost immediately before the motorcade when he did not have time to go to authorities.

BUT the problem Alan is that you have no evidence for your theory whatsoever.

Moreover it is my understanding that the secret service regulations in effect at the time did not ALLOW a driver to make a decision about what to do in such a situation but rather the regulations required him to only take orders from the ss agent riding shotgun.

Another problem with your theory is this: if something like that was going on (my scenario a threat to Greer's family coupled with his order to slow the limousine after the first shot) why in the world would not the shooter(s) guarantee that Greer would never have talked by simply "taking him out" as part of the ambush? Or why did he not die a "mysterious death" after the assassination?

And remember my suggestion as well: what if, as many think, the first shot came from the front? Would you expect Greer to drive into the line of fire, presumably decreasing the distance between the president and the sniper?

As I said before, one can argue almost anything but without any evidence all you are doing is taking up band-width (and smearing the reputation of an innocent man if you are wrong). Does the latter possibility even give you just a little teensy-weensy pang of conscience?