There Was No Bullet Wound in John F. Kennedy's Throat

[Robert Prudhomme]

If those slits lie overtop one another when the shirt was buttoned up, the nurse with the scalpel made that gash through three layers of shirt; a single layer on the button side and a double layer on the button hole side.

It is a little frightening to think this might have been done just to remove a tie. As I said earlier, did no one think of loosening the tie a few inches first?

[Tom Neal]

POST #254: I think the bullet hole through the throat was an entry point and above the collar as described by the nurses.

First allow me to state that I would prefer that the testimony indicated that the "throat wound" was located ABOVE JFK's collar.

ABOVE COLLAR: The higher the throat wound, the more evidence against the SBT

BEHIND COLLAR: There is no shirt damage that can be attributed to the exit of a bullet fragment -- Where did the fragment exit?

From my interpretation of the testimony; as much as I'd like to, I can NOT agree that BOTH nurses described the throat wound location as "above the collar."

IF there is any interest in this post, I'll continue with Nurse Margaret Henchliffe and Doctor C. James Carrico on this issue.

Let's start with NURSE DIANA BOWRON:

Ray Mitcham POST#193

1993 INTERVIEW: REFERRING TO WHEN SHE WAS INSIDE JFK'S LIMO AT PARKLAND:

"I turned his head back and saw an entry wound in the front of the throat."

TOM NEAL post#197:

1964 WC STATEMENT:

Mr. SPECTER - While the doctors were working on President Kennedy, did you ever have any opportunity to observe his neck?

Miss BOWRON - No; I didn't, until afterwards..

Mr. SPECTER - Until after what?

Miss BOWRON - Until after they had pronounced him dead and we cleaned up and removed the trach tube, and indeed we were really too shocked to really take much notice.

Mr. SPECTER - Did you ever see his neck prior to the time you removed the trach tube?

Miss BOWRON - No, sir.

ROBERT PRUDHOMME POST#201:

Regarding the discrepancy between Nurse Bowron's WC testimony and her 1993 interview, as they pertain to the neck wound...

Dare I suggest alterations to the WC testimony of many witnesses by WC lawyers?

TOM NEAL post#205:

Ample evidence exists that the WC altered *SOME* testimony, but *ONLY* when it conflicted with their agenda. But they obviously did NOT alter EVERY single word of conflicting

testimony. Miss Bowron's 1993 interview is 30 years after the event, while her 1964 testimony is only a few months after. When she makes the statement that she saw

the throat wound while in JFK's limo, Harrison Livingstone doesn't ask her "Why" she clearly stated in her WC testimony that she did not see the throat wound until

after the trach tube was removed. He could have offerred to read it to her affording her the opportunity to state that they must have changed it, or to say that's

right I didn't see it until the trach tube was removed. Based upon Livingstone's writing, he would have been in heaven at the prospect of her accusing the WC of

alteration. Yet another lost opportunity due to an interviewer's lack of knowledge.

In 1964 no one at Parkland acknowledged seeing the back wound. In her 1993 interview she states that she also saw the *back* wound. HL expresses surprise but AGAIN does

not ask why this went unmentioned in her 1964 testimony. If at any time prior to this interview Miss Bowron had read her testimony AS PUBLISHED she would have pointed

out any alterations to Livingstone. Therefore she either didn't read it, it wasn't presented to her or it wasn't altered. By whater degree of likelyhood one estimates

her having read the testimony, it diminishes the likelyhood of altered testimony to the same degree. The same for Carrico and Margaret Henchliffe.

I wonder if Harrison Livingstone ever sent her transcripts? If no one volunteers contact information for him, I'll start looking myself...

The WC had to counter the Parkland reports and call the throat wound a wound of exit. To accomplish this they had to designate a wound that was obviously an entrance

wound. They had a suit coat and shirt with a bullet hole in the back, and a hole in JFK's body. In her 1964 testimony, despite being asked more than once about wounds

"other" than the head wound, Miss Bowron EITHER does NOT mention seeing the *back wound* or it has been obliterated from her testimony. If she indicated that it was

too low, they would alter her statement as to its exact location as they have done the autopsy report and other documents to represent the path of a single bullet.

They had nothing to gain by removing any mention of the back wound so why would they do it?

If you believe that there was NO reason to alter her testimony regarding the back wound then it is more likely that the two differences in her testimony occurred due

to the 30 year interval between the two testimonies than it is that *BOTH* were alterred by the WC. IMO.

Tom

[Tom Neal]

If those slits lie overtop one another when the shirt was buttoned up, the nurse with the scalpel made that gash through three layers of shirt; a single layer on the button side and a double layer on the button hole side.

It is a little frightening to think this might have been done just to remove a tie. As I said earlier, did no one think of loosening the tie a few inches first?

As I've said earlier there are a number of reasons to believe those vertical slits were NOT made by a scalpel in order to remove his tie, and certainly not to remove his shirt. There is NO evidence that they were made by a bullet fragment. The two slits appear to have been made separately while the shirt was unbuttoned, and in no manner do they appear to represent an exiting fragment.

Who made them, why did they make them, and when were they made. I can't even speculate as to their purpose.

Tom

[Ashton Gray]

I am reposting the relevant parts of this post of mine from page 5 of the thread called "The Purloined Projectile" because it has a great deal to do with sequence and timing of events in Trauma Room 1, and I believe it has relevance to this thread. Your mileage may vary. I've edited it somewhat to remove language that was relevant only to the other thread.:

• ADMIRAL GEORGE GREGORY BURKLEY was not at any relevant time on any bus, but was in what was called "the VIP car" in the motorcade.
  
  

  "We, therefore, were put in a so-called VIP vehicle." —Admiral George Gregory Burkley, Burkley Oral History interview, 17 October 1967
  
  "On arrival in Dallas, Texas there was a long motorcade. Mrs. Lincoln—the President's Secretary—and I were in what Mr. Behn called the VIP car, which followed the cars containing the local and national representatives." —Admiral George Gregory Burkley, WH22 CE 1126, Report dated 27 November 1963 by George G. Burkley, Physician to the President, on his participation in the activities surrounding the assassination
  

• ADMIRAL GEORGE GREGORY BURKLEY was at Parkland Hospital, by his own admission, within as little as three minutes of the arrival of JFK at Parkland hospital.
  
  

  "I was there probably within three to five minutes of the time the President arrived. I went immediately in to see the President, and went to the table on which he was being treated... ." —Admiral George Gregory Burkley, Burkley Oral History interview, 17 October 1967
  
  "Agent Roger commandeered a car and a police escort led us at a rapid rate to the hospital arriving there between three and five minutes following the arrival of the President." —Admiral George Gregory Burkley, WH22 CE 1126, Report dated 27 November 1963 by George G. Burkley, Physician to the President, on his participation in the activities surrounding the assassination
  

• ADMIRAL GEORGE GREGORY BURKLEY was indeed in the small Trauma Room 1 on Dr. Carrico's arrival in the room, just as Dr. Carrico has testified, and Jacqueline Kennedy was seated outside Trauma Room 1 on a folding metal chair during those early crucial minutes.
  
  

  "I went directly to the Emergency Room on the ground floor of the hospital and Mrs. Kennedy was seated in a folding chair directly beside the door of the small room in which the President was being observed. I immediately entered the room, went to the head of the table and viewed the President." —Admiral George Gregory Burkley, WH22 CE 1126, Report dated 27 November 1963 by George G. Burkley, Physician to the President, on his participation in the activities surrounding the assassination
  
  "When I first observed him [President Kennedy] I was in the emergency room, seeing— Actually Governor Connally had been brought in first, as you know, Dr. Dulany and I had gone to care for Governor Connally, and when the President was brought in I left Governor Connally and went to care for the President. ...Admiral Burkley, I believe was his name, the President's physician, was there as soon as he got to the hospital. —Dr. Charles James Carrico, Warren Commission Hearings testimony, 30 Marc h 1964
  

• ADMIRAL GEORGE GREGORY BURKLEY personally supplied John F. Kennedy's blood type, which happened very early on, before Nurse Henchliffe left Trauma Room 1 to go get the necessary blood, which she says was within about two minutes of JFK's actual arrival inside Trauma Room 1.
  
  

  "I...told them his blood type." —Admiral George Gregory Burkley, Burkley Oral History interview, 17 October 1967
  
  "I checked the President's physical condition, gave the doctors working with the President the blood type... ." —Admiral George Gregory Burkley, Affidavit, 28 November 1978
  
  "The team was working to supply 'O' Rh negative blood and I informed them that his blood group was 'O' Ph [sic] positive." —Admiral George Gregory Burkley, WH22 CE 1126, Report dated 27 November 1963 by George G. Burkley, Physician to the President, on his participation in the activities surrounding the assassination
  
  From Warren Commission Testimony of Nurse Margaret M. Henchliffe:
  HENCHLIFFE: I found out who it was when I went out to get blood.
  SPECTER: About what time of day was that?
  HENCHLIFFE: Well, I guess it was about 2 minutes after he came in.
  SPECTER: Did you observe him at some place in the hospital?
  HENCHLIFFE: I was working with him in the emergency room.
  SPECTER: ...Were you in the area of the emergency room before he came there?
  HENCHLIFFE: Yes.
  SPECTER: Did you see him actually wheeled into the emergency room?
  HENCHLIFFE: Yes; in fact, I helped wheel him on into trauma room 1.
  SPECTER: And, where was he when you first saw him?
  HENCHLIFFE: He was between trauma rooms 1 and 2.
  SPECTER: ...Were you present all the time he was in the emergency room?
  HENCHLIFFE: Except when I left out to get blood.
  SPECTER: And how long were you gone?
  HENCHLIFFE: Oh, about 3 minutes or so; 3 or 4 minutes.
  

• ADMIRAL GEORGE GREGORY BURKLEY then was in Trauma Room 1 with Nurse Diana Bowron, who is documented as having lied about the throat wound.
  
  

  From Warren Commission Testimony of Nurse Diana Bowron:
  SPECTER: Where did Dr. Carrico join you?
  BOWRON: At the— I couldn't really tell you exactly, but it was inside major surgery. Miss Henchliffe, the other nurse who is assigned to major surgery, was in the trauma room already setting the I.V.'s—the intravenous bottles up.
  SPECTER: And were there any other nurses present at that time when the President arrived in the trauma area?
  BOWRON: I don't think so, sir.
  SPECTER: Were there any doctors present besides Dr. Carrico?
  BOWRON: I didn't notice anybody. There may have been.
  

• ADMIRAL GEORGE GREGORY BURKLEY was in Trauma Room 1 with Nurse Diana Bowron when Kennedy's clothing was partially removed, including his tie and the opening of his shirt.
  
  

  From Warren Commission Testimony of Secret Service Special Agent Roy H. Kellerman:
  KELLERMAN: ...While he lay on the stretcher in that emergency room his collar and everything is up... .
  FORD: But while he was on the stretcher in the emergency room you saw his face?
  KELLERMAN: That is right.
  FORD: But he had his tie and his collar still—
  KELLERMAN: Still on.
  FORD: Still on?
  KELLERMAN: Yes, sir.
  
  "When the President's clothing was removed at Parkland Hospital, his tie was cut off by severing the loop immediately to the wearer's left of the knot... ." —Warren Commission Report
  
  From Warren Commission Testimony of Nurse Diana Bowron:
  BOWRON: ...We tried to start an I.V. cutdown and I don't know whether it was his left or his right leg, and Miss Henchliffe and I cut off his clothing... .
  
  From Warren Commission Testimony of Malcolm Perry:
  McCLOY: ...[W]hen you first saw the President, was he fully clothed, or did you cut the clothing away?
  MALCOLM PERRY: ...Dr. Carrico and the nurses were all in attendance, they had removed his coat and his shirt, which is standard procedure, while we were proceeding about the examination, for them to do so.
  McCLOY: But you didn't actually remove his shirt?
  MALCOLM PERRY: No, sir; I did not.
  

• ADMIRAL GEORGE GREGORY BURKLEY was in Trauma Room 1 and personally "checked the President's physical condition," "viewed the President" at the "head of the table," and "saw President Kennedy's wounds at Parkland Hospital."
  
  

  "I went immediately in to see the President, and went to the table on which he was being treated... ."" —Admiral George Gregory Burkley, Burkley Oral History interview, 17 October 1967
  
  "I saw President Kennedy's wounds at Parkland Hospital... . I checked the President's physical condition... ." —Admiral George Gregory Burkley, Affidavit, 28 November 1978
  
  "I immediately entered the room, went to the head of the table and viewed the President." —Admiral George Gregory Burkley, WH22 CE 1126, Report dated 27 November 1963 by George G. Burkley, Physician to the President, on his participation in the activities surrounding the assassination
  

• ADMIRAL GEORGE GREGORY BURKLEY was in Trauma Room 1 when the cutdowns were done to start administering fluids to JFK. Jaqueline Kennedy was still outside Trauma Room 1 on a folding metal chair. Some hospital personnel felt she even was being neglected and arranged for some water for her, and asked if she would like to remove her bloodstained gloves, which she would not do.
  
  

  From Warren Commission Testimony of Nurse Diana Bowron:
  BOWRON: ...We tried to start an I.V. cutdown and I don't know whether it was his left or his right leg, and Miss Henchliffe and I cut off his clothing... .
  
  "I checked the President's physical condition, gave the doctors working with the President the blood type and some adrenal medication (Sol U Cortef) to place in the intravenous blood and fluids which were being administered." —Admiral George Gregory Burkley, Affidavit, 28 November 1978
  
  "I went directly to the Emergency Room on the ground floor of the hospital and Mrs. Kennedy was seated in a folding chair directly beside the door of the small room... ." —Admiral George Gregory Burkley, WH22 CE 1126, Report dated 27 November 1963 by George G. Burkley, Physician to the President, on his participation in the activities surrounding the assassination
  
  "Mrs. Kennedy was sitting on a brown metal chair with left side almost in line with the trauma room door. She was composed but apparently in shock. She still had on her bloodstained gloves, her face was smudged and apparently nobody had done anything for her. This disturbed me deeply, and the first opportunity I had to catch Mrs. Nelson, I asked her to please do something; for Mrs. Kennedy. ...I offered to get Mrs. Kennedy, who was sitting outside of Trauma Room #1, a towel, and asked her if she would like to remove her gloves, which were saturated with blood. She said: 'No thank you, I'm all right.'" —WH21, Price Exhibit No. 7
  

• ADMIRAL GEORGE GREGORY BURKLEY was in Trauma Room 1, within arms' reach, when Malcom Perry came in and had the conversation with Dr. Carrico about the throat wound, then started the tracheotomy.
  
  

  From Warren Commission Testimony of Malcolm Perry:
  MALCOLM PERRY: ...Dr. Jones and I went immediately to the emergency room to render what assistance we could. At the time of our arrival in the emergency room, the President was already there, and as I entered trauma room No. 1, Dr. James Carrico, the surgical resident on duty, had just placed an endotracheal tube to assist respiration.
  SPECTER: ...Did you observe any other doctors in the room at that time?
  MALCOLM PERRY: No, sir; I did not. There was somebody else in the room, but I don't know who it was. I remember only Dr. Carrico--
  SPECTER: What did you observe as to the President's condition at the time you first saw him ?
  MALCOLM PERRY: He was lying supine on the emergency cart directly in the center of the room under the overhead lamp. His shirt had been removed, and intravenous infusion was being begun in the right leg, I believe. ...The President's eyes were deviated and dilated and he was unresponsive. There was a small wound in the lower anterior third in the midline of the neck, from which blood was exuding very slowly. ...I determined only the fact that there was a wound there, roughly 5 mm. in size or so. ...At that point I asked Dr. Carrico if this was a wound in his neck or had he begun the tracheotomy, and he said it was a wound, and I, at that point, asked someone to get me a tracheotomy tray, and put on some gloves and. initiated the procedure.
  

• ADMIRAL GEORGE GREGORY BURKLEY not only was already in Trauma Room 1 when steroids were administered to John F. Kennedy, but in fact ordered the administration of the steroids himself, and in fact supplied the steroids to be used: SolU Cortef (spelled in evidence as Sol U Cortef). The assertion that Carrico administered steroids on his own is yet another willful and malicious falsehood designed to deceive. The source in testimony of that falsehood is Malcolm Perry himself—entered into the record under the guiding questioning of John J. McCloy himself—and the motive for the lie was to cover up the presence and activities of George Gregory Burkley inside Trauma Room 1.
  
  

  "I gave them some hydrocortisone, to put in the intravenous which was being given... ." —Admiral George Gregory Burkley, Burkley Oral History interview, 17 October 1967
  
  "I checked the President's physical condition, gave the doctors working with the President the blood type and some adrenal medication (Sol U Cortef) to place in the intravenous blood and fluids which were being administered." —Admiral George Gregory Burkley, Affidavit, 28 November 1978
  
  Perjury (willful false testimony under oath) from Warren Commission Testimony of Malcolm Perry :
  MALCOLM PERRY: ...It is to Dr. Carrico's credit, I think, he ordered the hydrocortisone for the President having known he suffered from adrenal insufficiency and in this particular instance being quite busy he had the presence of mind to recall this and order what could have been a lifesaving measure, I think.
  

• ADMIRAL GEORGE GREGORY BURKLEY personally went into the corridor and brought Jacqueline Kennedy into Trauma Room 1 only after the tracheotomy incision had been made—when he was damned good and ready for her to be there.
  
  

  DR. PETERS: When I arrived...Dr. Perry and Dr. Baxter were present and that they were working on his throat. ...[W]e asked for a set of tracheotomy tubes to try and get one of the appropriate size. I then helped Dr. Baxter assemble the tracheotomy tube which he inserted into the tracheotomy wound that he and Dr. Perry had created.
  SPECTER: Were there any others present at that time, before you go on as to what aid you rendered?
  DR. PETERS: ...Mrs. Kennedy was in the corner with someone who identified himself as the personal physician of the President. I don't remember his name.
  SPECTER: Dr. Burkley ?
  DR. PETERS: I don't know his name. That's just who he said he was, because he was asking that the President be given some steroids... .

That's the end of the reposting.

You know, it's a darn shame for the theories being posited in this thread that no "bullet fragment" or "bone fragment" ever has turned up to account for that pesky hole in the throat—which just happened to be in the exact location that was "one of the" easiest and "safest" locations for a tracheotomy:

MALCOLM PERRY: In the lower part of the neck below the Adams apple was a small, roughly circular wound of perhaps 5 mm. in diameter from which blood was exuding slowly. ...I asked Dr. Carrico if the wound on the neck was actually a wound or had he begun a tracheotomy and he replied in the negative, that it was a wound... I asked someone to secure a tracheotomy tray but there was one already there. ...I then began the tracheotomy making a transverse incision right through the wound in the neck.

SPECTER: Why did you elect to make the tracheotomy incision through the wound in the neck...

MALCOLM PERRY: The area of the wound, as pointed out to you in the lower third of the neck anteriorly is customarily the spot one would electively perform the tracheotomy. This is one of the safest and easiest spots to reach the trachea. ...Therefore, for expediency's sake I went directly to that level to obtain control of the airway.

God (or someone) works in mysterious ways.

As for the infamous slits in the shirt there around the lower third of the neck anteriorly, well...

Ashton Gray

Edited January 24, 2016 by Ashton Gray

[Tom Neal]

I am reposting the relevant parts of this post of mine from page 5 of the thread called "The Purloined Projectile" because it has a great deal to do with sequence and timing of events in Trauma Room 1, and I believe it has relevance to this thread. Your mileage may vary. I've edited it somewhat to remove language that was relevant only to the other thread.:

Ashton Gray

Ashton,

Thanks for editing and posting this. Very informative as to Burkley's arrival time at TR-1

I'm trying to determine if either Bowron or Henchliffe ever stated that they used a scalpel to remove JFK's tie. Blunt-nosed scissors appear to be the weapon of choice for this task. IIRC the origin of the idea that scalpels were used originated with Harold Weisberg who stated that he obtained that info during an interview with Carrico. I'm certain that in a video interview made in 1997 Carrico stated that scissors were used.

My other question is did anyone report seeing the throat wound while JFK was still clothed? If so, this would place the wound above the collar. Carrico did not see the throat wound until JFK's shirt was opened. Henchliffe describes the wound without mentioning the transverse tracheostomy incision so she apparently saw the wound prior to the incision. She gives no indication that she first observed it prior to clothing removal or after. Bowron stated in 1964 that she did not see the throat wound until AFTER the trach tube was removed. She also stated that she did not observe the back wound. However, as I suspect you know, she stated in a 1993 interview that she first observed the throat wound while JFK was still in the limo. She also states that she observed the back wound that she doesn't mention in the 1964 testimony. Probably a result of imperfect memory recall after 30 years, or possibly an alteration of her testimony by the WC.

Henchliffe is certain that she did NOT see the back wound while washing the body, but she DEFINITELY does NOT rule out the possibility that it was there.

The reason for the above is I'm currently seeking a transcript of Henchliffe's 1993 interview with Wallace Milam. Would you perhaps have that, or current contact info for Mr. Milam?

Tom

[Ashton Gray]

I'm trying to determine if either Bowron or Henchliffe ever stated that they used a scalpel to remove JFK's tie. Blunt-nosed scissors appear to be the weapon of choice for this task.

I've never found any such statement, and don't believe it will be found. I've personally asked two nurses who have trauma experience about use of a scalpel to remove clothing and they both looked at me like I was a candidate for a padded room. (Some in these forums would agree.) An entire industry exists for the creation of scissors and other implements specifically designed for rapid and safe removal of clothing from a trauma victim, and every trauma room is adequately equipped with just such implements. (Rip shears are commonly used these days, but I don't believe they were used in 1963. I have not researched that.)

I think that the most likely reason that no point has been made of it is exactly because of the rigorous training of such personnel for just such situations, and of course they would have used the scissors designed specifically to remove fabric and "do no harm." I believe that it's just taken for granted.

I see no reason whatsoever to assume or believe that even one of the doctors—never mind a nurse—would have taken a scalpel to a tight necktie that was right up against the man's throat. It would have been a nightmarishly reckless thing to do to anyone in any circumstances. I believe the entire "scalpel to remove clothing" question is a snipe hunt.

My other question is did anyone report seeing the throat wound while JFK was still clothed? If so, this would place the wound above the collar. Carrico did not see the throat wound until JFK's shirt was opened.

You are exactly right about Carrico, and he was the first Parkland doctor to arrive in the trauma room. To this day I have no idea why this question is belabored so laboriously—except that the "front shot" scenario has taken on all the force and power of a religion, and it is heresy to challenge the believers. Carrico himself says that HE is the one who initially opened the shirt, and that he UNBUTTONED it enough to expose the throat and chest:

SPECTER: What action, if any, was taken with respect to the removal of President Kennedy's clothing?

DR. CARRICO: ...After *I* had opened his shirt and coat, I proceeded with the examination and the nurses removed his clothing as is the usual procedure. ...The nurses removed the clothing after we had initially unbuttoned enough to get a look at him, at his chest, and as the routine is set up, the nurses remove the clothing and we just don't take time to look at it.

He then makes it clear, in an elementary English language sentence—which you already have referred to a number of times—that opening the shirt revealed the existence of the throat wound:

DR. CARRICO: We opened his shirt and coat and tie and observed a small wound in the anterior lower third of the neck.

Not one other human being in existence has ever unequivocally stated that there was any visible wound in the throat prior to that act. Bowron is the only witness who made the claim, much later, that she saw it all the way out in the limo, but I long ago documented in another thread that Bowron lied. Here is the relevant part of that post:

========BEGIN POST EXCERPT==========

Nurse Diana Bowron was the person who took a stretcher out to the presidential limosine and, with an orderly named Joe—whose last name she couldn't recall in testimony—brought John F. Kennedy into the emergency room to prepare him for treatment.

Nurse Bowron had come all the way from England in early August 1963, less than four months prior to the assassination, for a fateful one-year stint in the Parkland Hospital emergency room.

Here is how she testified under oath on 24 March 1964:

SPECTER: How many holes did you see?

BOWRON: I just saw one large hole [referring to hole in head].

SPECTER: ...Did you notice any other wound on the President's body?

BOWRON: No, sir.

SPECTER: ...Did you ever see his [John F. Kennedy's] neck prior to the time you removed the trach tube?

BOWRON: No, sir.

In a 1993 letter, Nurse Bowron changed her story about what she had found when she got to the limosine:

BOWRON: "I turned his head and seeing the size of the [head] wound realized that I could not stop the bleeding. I turned his head back and saw an entry wound in the front of the throat... ."

She repeated her new version in her interview with Harrison Livingston:

LIVINGSTON: And, so did you see the wound in the throat before? When he was in the car?

BOWRON: Yes.

LIVINGSTON: And what did that look like?

BOWRON: Well, that looked like an entry wound.

Ms. Bowron either lied under oath, or lied in her letter and interview, or she lied at all relevant times.

Why would Ms. Bowron lie about the throat wound at all?

=========END POST EXCERPT========

Why indeed?

EDITED TO ADD: Sorry, Tom, didn't mean to overlook this:

I'm currently seeking a transcript of Henchliffe's 1993 interview with Wallace Milam. Would you perhaps have that, or current contact info for Mr. Milam?

No, sorry.

Ashton

Edited January 24, 2016 by Ashton Gray

[Robert Prudhomme]

Portion of JFK's tie showing hole through it.

[Sandy Larsen]

Portion of JFK's tie showing hole through it.

Is that the so-called "nick?" I don't recall a hole in the tie being reported.

The hole looks the way I'd imagine it would after being grazed by a bullet. But then, I haven't seen many bullet holes or nicks in fabric before. If the hole is located where it could have been at the top of the knot when the tie was tied, that would go a long way in convincing me that the neck wound was just barely above the tie.

[Ashton Gray]

Is that the so-called "nick?" I don't recall a hole in the tie being reported.

Yes, that's the nick, and the reason you don't recall a hole in the tie being reported is because no hole in the tie ever was reported.

I feel we can all be grateful that Mr. Prudhomme finally has rectified that egregious oversight by explaining to us that a short nick to one layer of fabric and some unidentified stain is a "hole through it."

Who'd have thought the case could be solved that easily? I'm embarrassed that I didn't think of it first. All right, everybody: back to the grassy knoll...

Ashton

[Sandy Larsen]

Is that the so-called "nick?" I don't recall a hole in the tie being reported.

Yes, that's the nick, and the reason you don't recall a hole in the tie being reported is because no hole in the tie ever was reported.

I feel we can all be grateful that Mr. Prudhomme finally has rectified that egregious oversight by explaining to us that a short nick to one layer of fabric and some unidentified stain is a "hole through it."

Who'd have thought the case could be solved that easily? I'm embarrassed that I didn't think of it first. All right, everybody: back to the grassy knoll...

Ashton

It is a hole, Ashton. No need for sarcasm.

Do you know if there is a photo of the hole tie, with all the pieces together? (Get it? Hole tie? )

[Robert Prudhomme]

I wonder how that hole or nick or whatever we would like to call it got into the tie. Looks a bit ragged for a scalpel cut, wouldn't you say?

P.S.

Hate to keep pointing things out to you Ashton but, if you can see daylight through something, as is possible with the tie, that pretty much qualifies it as a hole.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Robert Prudhomme

[Sandy Larsen]

I wonder how that hole or nick or whatever we would like to call it got into the tie. Looks a bit ragged for a scalpel cut, wouldn't you say?

P.S.

Hate to keep pointing things out to you Ashton but, if you can see daylight through something, as is possible with the tie, that pretty much qualifies it as a hole.

My assumption is that the part of the tie with the nick was located within the knot, the top exposed part of the knot, and that the bullet/fragment made the nick as it passed just above the knot.

Another possibility is that a bullet fragment exited the neck and pierced one layer of the knot before its remaining energy was spent. If that's the case, the fragment likely was embedded in the knot till the tie was removed.

[Ian Lloyd]

If those slits lie overtop one another when the shirt was buttoned up, the nurse with the scalpel made that gash through three layers of shirt; a single layer on the button side and a double layer on the button hole side.

It is a little frightening to think this might have been done just to remove a tie. As I said earlier, did no one think of loosening the tie a few inches first?

Robert,

How about a little experiment? As I understand it, you go shooting so own guns? How about getting an old shirt and firing a (reduced velocity) bullet through it in the same position as the slits in JFK's shirt appear and see if you can replicate those slits? Maybe post photos of the results?

[Ian Lloyd]

I wonder how that hole or nick or whatever we would like to call it got into the tie. Looks a bit ragged for a scalpel cut, wouldn't you say?

P.S.

Hate to keep pointing things out to you Ashton but, if you can see daylight through something, as is possible with the tie, that pretty much qualifies it as a hole.

Is it daylight? Isn't it the white 'filler' within the the tie that we see through a hole in the outer fabric of the tie?

Edited January 25, 2016 by Ian Lloyd

[Robert Prudhomme]

I wonder how that hole or nick or whatever we would like to call it got into the tie. Looks a bit ragged for a scalpel cut, wouldn't you say?

P.S.

Hate to keep pointing things out to you Ashton but, if you can see daylight through something, as is possible with the tie, that pretty much qualifies it as a hole.

Is it daylight? Isn't it the white 'filler' within the the tie that we see through a hole in the outer fabric of the tie?

Good point, Ian. I assumed I could see the background material through a hole, but closer examination shows there to be white fibrous material in that "hole".