There Was No Bullet Wound in John F. Kennedy's Throat

[Tom Neal]

Tom believes all these scenarios are improbable. I invite him to add what he believes happened, one entry for an above-the-collar wound, and another entry for a below-the-collar wound.

Already did that -- it's still there -- for the moment... Edited February 2, 2016 by Tom Neal

[Cliff Varnell]

Are we to believe JFK was shot in the head prior to Z225 and he reacted to the bullet fragment exiting his throat, but not the shot in the head?

How come no one saw that he was shot in the head until Z313?

For all we know, JFK could have been reacting to a collapsed lung when he brought his hands up to his neck.

Glenn Bennett's account of the later back wound is corroborated by Willis 5, Altgens 6, and the location of the holes in the clothes.

But according to your scenario not only is the neck x-ray faked, but Glenn Bennett was a flat out prevaricator.

So JFK was shot in the back and he immediately grabbed at his throat (his tie, actually)?

This is ether, not even theory.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Cliff Varnell

[Tom Neal]

Somebody (you, I thought) posted a picture of the complete necktie showing how it had been cut. I responded by saying it looked like it had been cut with a scalpel/knife, not scissors.

This is not what I had posted, this is what I had planned to do. i.e. combine the two photos of the front and back of the tie to show the two edges of the severed tie in close proximity:

Note that the color in this photo has been so over-saturated the icons have been totally obliterated.

Edited February 2, 2016 by Tom Neal

[Cliff Varnell]

The issue I am addressing is whether the wound was above or below the collar line, but of course that is directly related to the DP v. Parkland issue.

Tom

Okay, the Dealey Plaza witnesses and photos/film and the neck x-ray indicate he was shot in the throat in Dealey Plaza.

Draw your own conclusions from that.

The issue I am addressing is whether the wound was above or below the collar line, but of course that is directly related to the DP v. Parkland issue.

Tom

Okay, the Dealey Plaza witnesses and photos/film and the neck x-ray indicate he was shot in the throat in Dealey Plaza.

Draw your own conclusions from that.

Cliff,

My conclusions are:

1. "he was shot in the throat in Dealey Plaza" is NOT an answer to the question "was the wound above the collar or below"

2. for whatever your reason, you are providing rude answers obviously designed to provoke me

3. in the future you can be sure I won't be asking your opinion on anything...

I said all misunderstandings were "my bad."

In my neighborhood that ain't rude.

[Tom Neal]

The issue I am addressing is whether the wound was above or below the collar line, but of course that is directly related to the DP v. Parkland issue.

Tom

Okay, the Dealey Plaza witnesses and photos/film and the neck x-ray indicate he was shot in the throat in Dealey Plaza.

Draw your own conclusions from that.

The issue I am addressing is whether the wound was above or below the collar line, but of course that is directly related to the DP v. Parkland issue.

Tom

Okay, the Dealey Plaza witnesses and photos/film and the neck x-ray indicate he was shot in the throat in Dealey Plaza.

Draw your own conclusions from that.

Cliff,

My conclusions are:

1. "he was shot in the throat in Dealey Plaza" is NOT an answer to the question "was the wound above the collar or below"

2. for whatever your reason, you are providing rude answers obviously designed to provoke me

3. in the future you can be sure I won't be asking your opinion on anything...

I said all misunderstandings were "my bad."

In my neighborhood that ain't rude.

You ain't in your neighborhood and there was no misunderstanding. I POLITELY asked you a simple question and TWICE you responded with a rude non-answer. I don't know what you have against me, nor do I care. Don't bother me and I won't bother you.

[Sandy Larsen]

Are we to believe JFK was shot in the head prior to Z225 and he reacted to the bullet fragment exiting his throat, but not the shot in the head?

How come no one saw that he was shot in the head until Z313?

For all we know, JFK could have been reacting to a collapsed lung when he brought his hands up to his neck.

Glenn Bennett's account of the later back wound is corroborated by Willis 5, Altgens 6, and the location of the holes in the clothes.

But according to your scenario not only is the neck x-ray faked, but Glenn Bennett was a flat out prevaricator.

So JFK was shot in the back and he immediately grabbed at his throat (his tie, actually)?

This is ether, not even theory.

In what way does the scenario I described contradict Glenn Bennett? (I don't have everybody's statements and testimonies memorized.)

[Sandy Larsen]

Tom believes all these scenarios are improbable. I invite him to add what he believes happened, one entry for an above-the-collar wound, and another entry for a below-the-collar wound.

Already did that -- it's still there -- for the moment...

I guess you're talking about your post #416.

Reading that, it seems that you don't believe the "slits" in the shirt are the holes for a below-collar-line scenario. If they aren't, then this scenario couldn't have happened. (Unless the projectile stopped precisely after exiting the wound. Or if the shirt we see is a fake or was altered.)

That leaves the above-collar-line scenario. You don't seem to have a problem with that. Except you wonder how the slits got in the shirt, and the nick in the tie.

I'll add this to Robert's list of possibilities. Correct me if I get it wrong.

[Sandy Larsen]

It was generally described at Parkland as a wound of entrance in spite of all attempts to parse badgered WC testimony.

The wound had no exit

The Mantik-Seal-of-Approval-Genuine neck x-ray shows an air pocket overlaying the right C7/T1 transverse processes -- that trajectory points to the throat entrance.

The neck x-ray destroys the skull fragment/exit scenario.

Only if the neck x-ray is genuine. Custer seemed to think it wasn't.

Mantik says it isn't a matter of doubt -- the neck x-ray is genuine.

Custer has been all over the map.

Prove it.

Custer put the back wound in two different locations, for instance.

Want to explain the point of faking the neck x-ray?

Maybe to hide particles from a frangible bullet.

[Cliff Varnell]

Want to explain the point of faking the neck x-ray?

Maybe to hide particles from a frangible bullet.

Ah, but how does this frangible bullet hit nothing but soft tissue and not blow out the back of his neck?

Jackie K said he had a quizzical look on his face.

If he were shot in the throat with a frangible bullet it would leave a quizzical look on his face?

[Sandy Larsen]

Potential Neck Shot Scenarios

Below The Collar Line

1. A bone fragment from JFK's neck exited his throat.
2. A bullet fragment exited JFK's throat. (A coating of organic matter on the fragment prevented metal residue from being left on the shirt holes.)
3. A plastic projectile either entered or exited JFK's throat.

Common Notes:

• The holes in the shirt were made by the projectile.
• The nick in the tie may have been made by the projectile. If it's true that the nick was on JFK's left, as reported by the FBI, then it could not have been made by the projectile. (Because in that case the nick would be higher than the shirt holes, due to the knot's structure.)

Above The Collar Line

1. Tom is right and a bullet/fragment entered or exited JFK's throat above the shirt's collar.
2. Cliff is right and a plastic projectile entered JFK's throat above the shirt's collar.

Common Notes:

• There seems to be no explanation for the two holes/slits in the shirt or the nick in the tie.
• The true neck wound was successfully covered up, and a lower one faked in its place.

Non-Projectile Scenarios

1. Ashton's Theory: Everything (wound in throat, hole in shirt ,and nick in tie) was made by an assassin with a 1/4" diameter needle connected to a syringe full of non-traceable poison.

Useful Animated GIF

(Posted by Ashton years ago.)

[Cliff Varnell]

Potential Neck Shot Scenarios

Below The Collar Line

1. A bone fragment from JFK's neck exited his throat.

When did this shot occur?

1. A bullet fragment exited JFK's throat. (A coating of organic matter on the fragment prevented metal residue from being left on the shirt holes.)

When did this shot occur?

1. A plastic projectile either entered or exited JFK's throat.

If it were an exit where did the shot enter?

So all the throat entrance witnesses got it wrong and the neck x-ray is fake even though Dr. Mantik rather huffily declared it genuine?

Common Notes:

• The holes in the shirt were made by the projectile.
• The nick in the tie may have been made by the projectile. If it's true that the nick was on JFK's left, as reported by the FBI, then it could not have been made by the projectile. (Because in that case the nick would be higher than the shirt holes, due to the knot's structure.)

Above The Collar Line

1. Tom is right and a bullet/fragment entered or exited JFK's throat above the shirt's collar.
2. Cliff is right and a plastic projectile entered JFK's throat above the shirt's collar.

Common Notes:

• There seems to be no explanation for the two holes/slits in the shirt or the nick in the tie.
• The true neck wound was successfully covered up, and a lower one faked in its place.

Non-Projectile Scenarios

1. Ashton's Theory: Everything (wound in throat, hole in shirt ,and nick in tie) was made by an assassin with a 1/4" diameter needle connected to a syringe full of non-traceable poison.

Useful Animated GIF

(Posted by Ashton years ago.)

Edited February 2, 2016 by Cliff Varnell

[Sandy Larsen]

Want to explain the point of faking the neck x-ray?

Maybe to hide particles from a frangible bullet.

Ah, but how does this frangible bullet hit nothing but soft tissue and not blow out the back of his neck?

Jackie K said he had a quizzical look on his face.

If he were shot in the throat with a frangible bullet it would leave a quizzical look on his face?

The frangible bullet particles weren't from the throat shot... they were from the shot to the back of the head, which hit near the external occipital protuberance. They were deflected downward upon hitting the skull. (This is a theory, of course.)

One of the technicians (I forget who) said fragments could be seen in the neck x-ray. Now they're gone.

[Cliff Varnell]

The issue I am addressing is whether the wound was above or below the collar line, but of course that is directly related to the DP v. Parkland issue.

Tom

Okay, the Dealey Plaza witnesses and photos/film and the neck x-ray indicate he was shot in the throat in Dealey Plaza.

Draw your own conclusions from that.

The issue I am addressing is whether the wound was above or below the collar line, but of course that is directly related to the DP v. Parkland issue.

Tom

Okay, the Dealey Plaza witnesses and photos/film and the neck x-ray indicate he was shot in the throat in Dealey Plaza.

Draw your own conclusions from that.

Cliff,

My conclusions are:

1. "he was shot in the throat in Dealey Plaza" is NOT an answer to the question "was the wound above the collar or below"

2. for whatever your reason, you are providing rude answers obviously designed to provoke me

3. in the future you can be sure I won't be asking your opinion on anything...

I said all misunderstandings were "my bad."

In my neighborhood that ain't rude.

You ain't in your neighborhood and there was no misunderstanding. I POLITELY asked you a simple question and TWICE you responded with a rude non-answer. I don't know what you have against me, nor do I care. Don't bother me and I won't bother you.

I've consistently described the wound as above the collar.

[Cliff Varnell]

Want to explain the point of faking the neck x-ray?

Maybe to hide particles from a frangible bullet.

Ah, but how does this frangible bullet hit nothing but soft tissue and not blow out the back of his neck?

Jackie K said he had a quizzical look on his face.

If he were shot in the throat with a frangible bullet it would leave a quizzical look on his face?

The frangible bullet particles weren't from the throat shot... they were from the shot to the back of the head, which hit near the external occipital protuberance. They were deflected downward upon hitting the skull. (This is a theory, of course.)

One of the technicians (I forget who) said fragments could be seen in the neck x-ray. Now they're gone.

Those fragments were dust artifacts according to the HSCA.

<quote on>

On the film of the right side, taken post-autopsy, there are two small metallic densities in the

region of the C7 right transverse process. These densities are felt to be artifact, partly because

of their marked density, because there is a similar artifact overlying the body of C7, and because

these metallic-like densities were not present on the previous, pre-autopsy film. Therefore, I

assume that these are screen artifacts from debris present in the cassette at the time that

this film was exposed.

<quote off>

So JFK was shot in the head at Z313 and a bone fragment exited his throat?

But he was responding to throat trauma 6 seconds earlier.

How does someone respond to throat trauma 6 seconds before suffering a wound in the throat?

[Cliff Varnell]

Are we to believe JFK was shot in the head prior to Z225 and he reacted to the bullet fragment exiting his throat, but not the shot in the head?

How come no one saw that he was shot in the head until Z313?

For all we know, JFK could have been reacting to a collapsed lung when he brought his hands up to his neck.

Glenn Bennett's account of the later back wound is corroborated by Willis 5, Altgens 6, and the location of the holes in the clothes.

But according to your scenario not only is the neck x-ray faked, but Glenn Bennett was a flat out prevaricator.

So JFK was shot in the back and he immediately grabbed at his throat (his tie, actually)?

This is ether, not even theory.

In what way does the scenario I described contradict Glenn Bennett? (I don't have everybody's statements and testimonies memorized.)

This is from his day after statement:

<quote on>

About thirty minutes after leaving Love Field about 12:25 P.M., the Motorcade entered an intersection and then proceeded down a grade. At this point the well-wishers numbered but a few; the motorcade continued down this grade enroute to the Trade Mart. At this point I heard what sounded like a fire-cracker. I immediately looked from the right/crowd/physical area/and looked towards the President who was seated in the right rear seat of his limousine open convertible. At the moment I looked at the back of the President I heard another fire-cracker noise and saw the shot hit the President about four inches down from the right shoulder. A second shot followed immediately and hit the right rear high of the President's head. I immediately hollered "he's hit" and reached for the AR-15 located on the floor of the rear seat. Special Agent Hickey had already picked-up the AR-15. We peered towards the rear and particularly the right side of the area. I had drawn my revolver when I saw S/A Hickey had the AR15. I was unable to see anything or one that could have fired the shots. The President's car immediately kicked into high gear and the follow-up car followed.

<quote off>

According to Bennett he was looking to is right when he heard the first shot.

This is corroborated by the Willis 5 photo:

Bennett is on the far right, seated.

He said he turned to look toward the President.

Altgens 6 shows Bennett with blurry features, consistent with him moving his head.

Bennett said the back shot was about 4 inches below the shoulder -- the bullet holes in the clothes are 4 inches below the bottom of the collars.

His account is well corroborated.