And now, for something completely different.

[Jim Feemster]

What if.... The "Killer Of Tippit", lets call him " KOT" was waiing for Tip to call him at one of the houses on Tenth Street. He waits and waits for the phone call but it doesn't come. So he goes outside and stands around the on the sidewalk.

Tip does call from the Top Ten Record Shop but its just after KOT has gotten tired of waiting for the call and goes outside to the sidewalk.

Now Tip comes barreling through the neighborhood, stopping the insurance guy and looking in his back seat for , 1. payoff money to transport KOT to Red Bird Airport [ its not Tip's fault if his fare isn't going to show up], 2. Someone has told Tip that the biggest arrest of his career waits for him at Tenth & Patton and since Tip believes KOT thinks they are confederates it will be easy to get the drop on KOT and be a hero, 3. Tip thinks his girlfriend has been slipping around on him he uses the confusion of the day to leave his normal area and sneak up on his girlfriend's house to see if he can catch the enterloper.

KOT's superiors have instructed him to lure Tip to this location and shoot him to cause more confusion and/or lead the posse to the Texas Theater

THIS IS ALL CONJECTURE. I don't know what to believe but since there is no definitive answer to which way KOT was walking[ EAST OR WEST } maybe he was there all the time and for some reason waiting for Tip to show up.

After all, Scoggins doesn't say KOT passed his cab which he would have had to do if approaching from the West. And Markham would have and DID say alot of things which weren't true. Why believe her when she said she seen a man step up onto the curb at the South East Corner ot Tenth and Patton directly in front of Scoggin's lunch location and Scoggins says nothing of the incident.

Can anyone think of other reasons KOT would have been waiting for Tip and not coming from the East or West?

Jim { my real name -not initials LOL }

[Lee Forman]

What if.... The "Killer Of Tippit", lets call him " KOT" was waiing for Tip to call him at one of the houses on Tenth Street. He waits and waits for the phone call but it doesn't come. So he goes outside and stands around the on the sidewalk.

Tip does call from the Top Ten Record Shop but its just after KOT has gotten tired of waiting for the call and goes outside to the sidewalk.

Now Tip comes barreling through the neighborhood, stopping the insurance guy and looking in his back seat for , 1. payoff money to transport KOT to Red Bird Airport [ its not Tip's fault if his fare isn't going to show up], 2. Someone has told Tip that the biggest arrest of his career waits for him at Tenth & Patton and since Tip believes KOT thinks they are confederates it will be easy to get the drop on KOT and be a hero, 3. Tip thinks his girlfriend has been slipping around on him he uses the confusion of the day to leave his normal area and sneak up on his girlfriend's house to see if he can catch the enterloper.

KOT's superiors have instructed him to lure Tip to this location and shoot him to cause more confusion and/or lead the posse to the Texas Theater

THIS IS ALL CONJECTURE. I don't know what to believe but since there is no definitive answer to which way KOT was walking[ EAST OR WEST } maybe he was there all the time and for some reason waiting for Tip to show up.

After all, Scoggins doesn't say KOT passed his cab which he would have had to do if approaching from the West. And Markham would have and DID say alot of things which weren't true. Why believe her when she said she seen a man step up onto the curb at the South East Corner ot Tenth and Patton directly in front of Scoggin's lunch location and Scoggins says nothing of the incident.

Can anyone think of other reasons KOT would have been waiting for Tip and not coming from the East or West?

Jim { my real name -not initials LOL }

Hi Jim,

There is quite a bit in the Tippit thread of interest. For example, there was the woman who was allegedly front-ended as Tippit backed up his car. She remained there for a moment - expecting the worst [i fought the law and the law won]. Tippit isn't interested in her and she pulls off - it was a minor incident with probably no damage. Let's say that this is true - why is Tippit backing up here?

There is the part in which a Squad car was allegedly seen in the drive that connected Tenth to a back alley which still runs behind the properties in front - coupled with what Bud Culligan said about the operation having the use of 2 squad cars [plus the bizarre account of Oswald's landlady and the bit about two cars having been sold in the Warren Report].

Then you have the problem of more than one suspect - depending upon whose account you place more credibility in - I am personally inclined to ignore much of what Helen Markham had to offer.

Did Tippit return an elementary schoolbook on Spanish to his niece [i think it was?] that morning? Is it possible that he caught wind of something during his moonlighting job at the Austin Barbecue? What was he looking for in the front seat of Andrew's car? Who was it that was fighting when Tippit allegedly made a stop only a short while earlier [ref?]. Why does the description of the windbreaker found in the parking lot at the Temple fit the same description of the man an elderly lady described as belonging to the man she saw bang out the door of the TSBD and run in the direction of the railroad tracks - which would dovetail nicely with a number of other witness reports and sightings? What was Igor Vaganov doing in Oak Cliff and why shove his clothing into that phone booth? Who was it that ran into the Temple and whatever became of that situation? Where was the 'estate' physically located that Harry Olsen guarded that day? How come so many reports of alleged safe houses in Oak Cliff? What about the connection between a Banker named Stuart Martin of Oak Cliff and the Olds seen by Bowers in the back parking area? Where did his mistress live? Is it true that he was leaving his wife that morning, as has also been alleged of Oswald?

Lot's of questions - however, not sure that it was all by carefully crafted design. Tippit could have caught wind of a plot - wrote it off, then heard the reports and acted on some knowledge he had - and then just ended up at the wrong place at the wrong time. Or, what seems more plausible - Oswald didn't follow the original plan somehow, and Plan B went into effect - or a makeshift plan was resorted to instead. After all - Oswald apparently didn't respond to the squad car that was never there to visit Earline Roberts.

- lee

[James Richards]

Did Tippit return an elementary schoolbook on Spanish to his niece [i think it was?] that morning? Is it possible that he caught wind of something during his moonlighting job at the Austin Barbecue? (Lee Forman)

Lee,

I submit it was the Stevens Theater where Tippit may have got wind of something. Run by Manuel Avila and frequented by the likes of Manuel Orcaberrio, it does make one wonder.

James

[Jack White]

I give more credibility to Markham than some do. She is especially important

in establishing the real time of the shooting.

The cab driver was eating lunch. He would not necessarily notice somebody

crossing the street. Could have been relaxing or dozing.

I give much credibility to Aquilla Clemmons, and also to the young man who

said the killer was going west. Clemmons said there were two men, not one.

It think much deliberate confusion was created around the Tippit scene.

I also wonder about his watching traffic at the Glo-Co station.

The right window was closed, so the tale of Tippit pulling up beside LHO

and talking to him makes no sense, nor does Tippit getting out of the car

and confronting him.

Making sense of all this is impossible.

Jack

[Duke Lane]

... the woman who was allegedly front-ended as Tippit backed up his car. ... the bizarre account of Oswald's landlady and the bit about two cars having been sold in the Warren Report. ...

What was he looking for in the front seat of Andrew's car? Who was it that was fighting when Tippit allegedly made a stop only a short while earlier. ... Who was it that ran into the Temple and whatever became of that situation? Where was the 'estate' physically located that Harry Olsen guarded that day? ... Where did his mistress live? Is it true that he was leaving his wife that morning ...?

I give more credibility to Markham than some do. She is especially important in establishing the real time of the shooting. ... I give much credibility to ... the young man who said the killer was going west. ... It think much deliberate confusion was created around the Tippit scene. I also wonder about his watching traffic at the Glo-Co station. ... Making sense of all this is impossible.

As the saying goes, once in a while you can get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

Among the items noted above, some probably need discounting, particularly the woman supposedly hit by Tippit's patrol car, Andrews' "crazed cop" story, and the Gloco deal ... but the last for an entirely different reason than that it didn't happen, but that it was a different officer entirely.

The location of the "estate" is relatively simple to deduce: four blocks from Kay's apartment, a couple of blocks from "Stemmons" (actually R.L. Thornton at that point), approximately where Bonnie View becomes 8th. There's nothing there now, but there used to be. Harry wasn't "guarding" it any more than he walked to and from it. Why would a dead man's friend be calling him anyway?

Tippit's last call was a shoplifting call on a young woman whom he took briefly into custody and dropped off at her home, out of sight of the store owner and after a stern lecture. The temple search (by Nick McDonald) was thwarted by a well-timed called to catch a kid in the library; it's where the pistol was. Johnnie lived right where Charlie Davis thought JD did. Tippit wasn't leaving his wife, as is evidenced by the fact that he'd had a ring on layaway and his fellow officers gave it to Marie after JD was dead. This both supports and is supported by her contention that JD was a fine and loving husband who had no dalliances, ever.

Earlene Roberts was blind in one eye as well as being distracted by a telephone call, a television with bad reception that she was trying to tune in for news about the shooting, and a man running in and out of her house to get a jacket. The car she saw was probably had a "7" in it (but not "107"), driving around the block from the Gloco (takes 4-5 minutes). William Smith was completely contradicted by his buddy, Jimmy Burt, who said they were at 9th & Denver, not 10th & Denver. Helen Markham, if she knew nothing else, certainly knew what time she went to work and what bus she caught. Oswald could not run a four-minute mile, and probably wasn't even in the neighborhood, and wasn't "making his bones" by killing a cop.

Actually, it all makes a lot of sense ... if you look at it right!

Edited September 21, 2008 by Duke Lane

[Steve Thomas]

James,

I submit it was the Stevens Theater where Tippit may have got wind of something. Run by Manuel Avila and frequented by the likes of Manuel Orcaberrio, it does make one wonder.

James

Can you expound on Orcarberro frequenting the Stevens Theater?

Steve Thomas