Late afternoon 22.11.63: "Magic Bullet" still in Connallys thigh.

[Karl Kinaski]

Vince Palamara provided the following Newsclip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OyI0P6WYIY of the Dr.Shaws (Connallys Doctor) press-conference, at 15h ? 22.11.1963 where he claims, that the bullet(in the LN wonderland known as the magic one), is still in the tigh of the Governor. That means, the bullet Tomlinson

http://www.realhistoryarchives.com/collect...s/jfk/ce399.htm

found on the strecher at 1 ' o clock that day, is another one. I am curious whom Dr. Shaw gave the real "Connally bullet" after he removed it, before Connally was put to the recovery room.

KK

Edited April 16, 2009 by Karl Kinaski

[Chris Halbower]

I'm surprised no one has responded yet. This little gem is a stake to the heart of the single bullet theory.

Now, was Shaw talking about a fragment or a whole bullet? That is the question.

If he was talking about a whole bullet, the only conclusion to be drawn is that there was a conspiracy in the Kennedy assassination. One of the following is the case:

A. The stretcher bullet was planted and therefore there was a conspiracy

B. The stretcher bullet and the bullet still lodged in Connally's leg were both part of the fusilade that killed JFK and wounded Connally. Since Oswald could barely fire 3 bullets in the alloted time, the presence of a fourth bullet requires a second gunman and therefore there was a conspiracy.

Edited April 17, 2009 by Chris Halbower

[Mark Knight]

I'm surprised no one has responded yet. This little gem is a stake to the heart of the single bullet theory.

Now, was Shaw talking about a fragment or a whole bullet? That is the question.

If he was talking about a whole bullet, the only conclusion to be drawn is that there was a conspiracy in the Kennedy assassination. One of the following is the case:

A. The stretcher bullet was planted and therefore there was a conspiracy

B. The stretcher bullet and the bullet still lodged in Connally's leg were both part of the fusilade that killed JFK and wounded Connally. Since Oswald could barely fire 3 bullets in the alloted time, the presence of a fourth bullet requires a second gunman and therefore there was a conspiracy.

Let's not neglect the possibility that the Tomlinson stretcher bullet fell out of JFK's "shallow" back wound...which also negates the SBT, since it could not have fallen out of JFK's "shallow" back wound and still have caused ANY of Connally's wounds. That would make the stretcher bullet the result of shot number 1, and therefore you would need to add a conclusion "C" to your list.

[Guest Tom Scully]

I saw the video of Dr. Shaw filmed in the evening of 22 Nov., 1963, and I was going to post a link to it on this forum. But then I

read this, and it influenced me to think that Dr. Shaw was less informed that evening, and when he testified at to the WC than

Dr. Gregory was. I have no way of knowing if "they" got to Dr. Gregory and thus influenced his WC testimony, so at this time I

do not consider Dr. Shaw's filmed 22 Nov. comments to the press about a bullet lodged in the thigh as a lead to pursue.

Impeach this WC testimony of Dr. Gregory and I'll quickly change my mind.....

Warren Commission Hearings: Vol. IV - Page 113

...Mr. Specter.

Now, as to the wound on the thigh, could that bullet have gone into the Governor's thigh without causing any more damage than appears on the face of that bullet?

Dr. SHAW. If it was a spent bullet; yes. As far as the bullet is concerned it could have caused the Governor's thigh wound as a spent missile.

Mr. Specter.

Why do you say it is a spent missile, would you elaborate on what your thinking is on that issue?

Dr. SHAW. Only from what I have been told by Dr. Shires and Dr. Gregory, that the depth of the wound was only into the subcutaneous tissue, not actually into the muscle of the leg, so it meant that missile had penetrated for a very short period. Am I quoting you correctly, Dr. Gregory?

Mr. Specter.

May the record show Dr. Gregory is present during this testimony and----

Dr. GREGORY. I will say yes.

Mr. Specter.

And indicates in the affirmative. Do you have sufficient knowledge of the wound of the wrist to render an opinion as to whether that bullet could have gone through Governor Connally's wrist and emerged being as much intact as it is?

Dr. SHAW. I do not...

Warren Commission Hearings: Vol. IV - Page 125

..Mr. Specter.

Insofar as you feel they are helpful in characterizing the wounds, do mark them in that way.

Dr. GREGORY. All right.

This I understand is Exhibit E, then and it is a single X-ray made on the anterior posterial view of Mr. Connally's thigh. The only thing found is a very small fleck of metal marked with an arrow here. It is that small, and almost likely to be overlooked. This was not consonant with the kind of wound on the medial aspect of his thigh.

Our next natural assumption was that that missile having escaped from the thigh had escaped the confines of this X-ray and lay somewhere else. So that additional X-rays were made of the same date and l submit two additional X-rays identified again as belonging to John G. Connally, the left lower extremity, November 22, 1963, and these two are numbered 218-922, and they are an anterial posterior view which I will mark "F," and a lateral view which I will mark "G."...

...Mr. Specter.

What is your best estimate of the weight of that metallic fragment?

Dr. GREGORY. This again would be in micrograms, postage stamp weight thereabouts, not much more than that.

Mr. Specter.

Could that fragment, in your opinion, have caused the wound which you observed in the Governor's left thigh?

Dr. GREGORY. I do not believe it could have. The nature of the wound in the left thigh was such that so small a fragment as this would not have produced it and still have gone no further into the soft tissues than it did.

Mr. Specter.

Would the wound that you observed in the soft tissue of the left thigh be consistent with having been made by a bullet such as that identified as Commission Exhibit 399?

Dr. GREGORY. I think again that bullet, Exhibit 399, could very well have struck the thigh in a reverse fashion and have shed a bit of its lead core into the fascia immediately beneath the skin, yet never have penetrated the thigh sufficiently so that it eventually was dislodged and was found in the clothing.

I would like to add to that we were disconcerted by not finding a missile at all. Here was our patient with three discernible wounds, and no missile within him of sufficient magnitude to account for them, and we suggested that someone ought to search his belongings and other areas where he had been to see if it could be identified or found, rather...

[Chris Halbower]

I'm surprised no one has responded yet. This little gem is a stake to the heart of the single bullet theory.

Now, was Shaw talking about a fragment or a whole bullet? That is the question.

If he was talking about a whole bullet, the only conclusion to be drawn is that there was a conspiracy in the Kennedy assassination. One of the following is the case:

A. The stretcher bullet was planted and therefore there was a conspiracy

B. The stretcher bullet and the bullet still lodged in Connally's leg were both part of the fusilade that killed JFK and wounded Connally. Since Oswald could barely fire 3 bullets in the alloted time, the presence of a fourth bullet requires a second gunman and therefore there was a conspiracy.

Let's not neglect the possibility that the Tomlinson stretcher bullet fell out of JFK's "shallow" back wound...which also negates the SBT, since it could not have fallen out of JFK's "shallow" back wound and still have caused ANY of Connally's wounds. That would make the stretcher bullet the result of shot number 1, and therefore you would need to add a conclusion "C" to your list.

True.

[Chuck Robbins]

I saw the video of Dr. Shaw filmed in the evening of 22 Nov., 1963, and I was going to post a link to it on this forum. But then I

read this, and it influenced me to think that Dr. Shaw was less informed that evening, and when he testified at to the WC than

Dr. Gregory was. I have no way of knowing if "they" got to Dr. Gregory and thus influenced his WC testimony, so at this time I

do not consider Dr. Shaw's filmed 22 Nov. comments to the press about a bullet lodged in the thigh as a lead to pursue.

Impeach this WC testimony of Dr. Gregory and I'll quickly change my mind.....

Warren Commission Hearings: Vol. IV - Page 113

...Mr. Specter.

Now, as to the wound on the thigh, could that bullet have gone into the Governor's thigh without causing any more damage than appears on the face of that bullet?

Dr. SHAW. If it was a spent bullet; yes. As far as the bullet is concerned it could have caused the Governor's thigh wound as a spent missile.

Mr. Specter.

Why do you say it is a spent missile, would you elaborate on what your thinking is on that issue?

Dr. SHAW. Only from what I have been told by Dr. Shires and Dr. Gregory, that the depth of the wound was only into the subcutaneous tissue, not actually into the muscle of the leg, so it meant that missile had penetrated for a very short period. Am I quoting you correctly, Dr. Gregory?

Mr. Specter.

May the record show Dr. Gregory is present during this testimony and----

Dr. GREGORY. I will say yes.

Mr. Specter.

And indicates in the affirmative. Do you have sufficient knowledge of the wound of the wrist to render an opinion as to whether that bullet could have gone through Governor Connally's wrist and emerged being as much intact as it is?

Dr. SHAW. I do not...

Warren Commission Hearings: Vol. IV - Page 125

..Mr. Specter.

Insofar as you feel they are helpful in characterizing the wounds, do mark them in that way.

Dr. GREGORY. All right.

This I understand is Exhibit E, then and it is a single X-ray made on the anterior posterial view of Mr. Connally's thigh. The only thing found is a very small fleck of metal marked with an arrow here. It is that small, and almost likely to be overlooked. This was not consonant with the kind of wound on the medial aspect of his thigh.

Our next natural assumption was that that missile having escaped from the thigh had escaped the confines of this X-ray and lay somewhere else. So that additional X-rays were made of the same date and l submit two additional X-rays identified again as belonging to John G. Connally, the left lower extremity, November 22, 1963, and these two are numbered 218-922, and they are an anterial posterior view which I will mark "F," and a lateral view which I will mark "G."...

...Mr. Specter.

What is your best estimate of the weight of that metallic fragment?

Dr. GREGORY. This again would be in micrograms, postage stamp weight thereabouts, not much more than that.

Mr. Specter.

Could that fragment, in your opinion, have caused the wound which you observed in the Governor's left thigh?

Dr. GREGORY. I do not believe it could have. The nature of the wound in the left thigh was such that so small a fragment as this would not have produced it and still have gone no further into the soft tissues than it did.

Mr. Specter.

Would the wound that you observed in the soft tissue of the left thigh be consistent with having been made by a bullet such as that identified as Commission Exhibit 399?

Dr. GREGORY. I think again that bullet, Exhibit 399, could very well have struck the thigh in a reverse fashion and have shed a bit of its lead core into the fascia immediately beneath the skin, yet never have penetrated the thigh sufficiently so that it eventually was dislodged and was found in the clothing.

I would like to add to that we were disconcerted by not finding a missile at all. Here was our patient with three discernible wounds, and no missile within him of sufficient magnitude to account for them, and we suggested that someone ought to search his belongings and other areas where he had been to see if it could be identified or found, rather...

A statement made the day of the assassination versus a statement made much later to the Warren Commission?

I prefer the earlier statement.

Later testimony is made after months of hearing or reading or being told "what really happened".

[John Dolva]

''...it eventually was dislodged and was found in the clothing.

I would like to add to that we were disconcerted by not finding a missile at all. Here was our patient with three discernible wounds, and no missile within him of sufficient magnitude to account for them, and we suggested that someone ought to search his belongings and other areas where he had been to see if it could be identified or found, rather...''

we were disconcerted by not finding a missile at all.

Here was our patient with three discernible wounds, and no missile within him

we suggested that someone ought to search his belongings and other areas where he had been to see if it could be identified or found,

it ... was ... found in the clothing. ???

[Thomas H. Purvis]

I'm surprised no one has responded yet. This little gem is a stake to the heart of the single bullet theory.

Now, was Shaw talking about a fragment or a whole bullet? That is the question.

If he was talking about a whole bullet, the only conclusion to be drawn is that there was a conspiracy in the Kennedy assassination. One of the following is the case:

A. The stretcher bullet was planted and therefore there was a conspiracy

B. The stretcher bullet and the bullet still lodged in Connally's leg were both part of the fusilade that killed JFK and wounded Connally. Since Oswald could barely fire 3 bullets in the alloted time, the presence of a fourth bullet requires a second gunman and therefore there was a conspiracy.

Let's not neglect the possibility that the Tomlinson stretcher bullet fell out of JFK's "shallow" back wound...which also negates the SBT, since it could not have fallen out of JFK's "shallow" back wound and still have caused ANY of Connally's wounds. That would make the stretcher bullet the result of shot number 1, and therefore you would need to add a conclusion "C" to your list.

Well Karl, you have finally found the "Golden Fleece"!

You have also finally located the one and only true "MAGIC BULLET"/aka, the one which disappeared.

That particular bullet is the result of the third shot impact down in front of James Altgens position/aka the Stationing 4+95 impact.

A. CE399, as stated above, merely lodged into the back of JFK.

B. Z313 impact bullet severely fragmented as it skirted across the top of the skull of JFK from it's "Cowlick" entry point, sending a fragment to the wrist of JBC.

C. The third/last/final shot/aka the only true "MAGIC" bullet struck JFK in the lower edge of the hairline at the base of the rear of the neck, penetrated downwards through the head, exited in the frontal/temporal lobe, and thereafter went on to strike JBC in the back shoulder as he lay across the open area of the jumpseats, exposing his right rear shoulder to the downward path of the bullet.

This, the true, "MAGIC" bullet, then penetrated through the chest of JBC, to exit and enter the left inner thigh.

From that point it became truly "MAGIC" in that not only did it disappear, but it also allowed Specter; Shaneyfelt; & Company to create a shooting scenario in which all of it's wounds were blamed on CE399.

My primary question being exactly why anyone would believe the assinine foolishness of "THE SHOT THAT MISSED"?

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...eport_0068a.htm

[Thomas H. Purvis]

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/gregory1.htm

Our next natural assumption was that that missile having escaped from the thigh had escaped the confines of this X-ray and lay somewhere else.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

+

Sounds like a logical "assumption" to me!

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

+

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/gregory2.htm

An X-ray was made of his thigh at that time and there was not present in his thigh any missile of sufficient magnitude, in my opinion, to have produced the wound observed on his medial aspect. Repeat X-rays failed to reveal any such missile and an additional examination failed to reveal any wound of exit.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Anybody like to take an "EDUCATION FORUM" guess as to what got missed?

[Thomas H. Purvis]

P.S.

There exists an excellent "hint" here as to what created what!

Mr. SPECTER - What would your assessment of the likelihood be for a bullet under those hypothetical circumstances to have passed through the neck of the President and to have passed through only the chest of the Governor without having gone through either the wrist or into the thigh?

Dr. GREGORY - I think that is a much more plausible possibility or probability.

Mr. SPECTER - How about the likelihood of passing through the President and through the Governor's chest, but missing his wrist and passing into his thigh?

Dr. GREGORY - That, too, is plausible, I believe.

Mr. SPECTER - Are there any other circumstances of this event which have been related to you, including the striking of the President's head by a third bullet, which would account in any way, under any possibility, in your view, for the fracture of the right wrist which was apparently caused by a missile?

Dr. GREGORY - May I refer to this morning's discussions?

Mr. SPECTER - Yes, please do.

Dr. GREGORY - This morning I was shown two additional missiles or portions of missiles which are rather grossly distorted.

Mr. SPECTER - Let me make those a part of the record here, and ask if those are the missiles which have heretofore been identified as Commission Exhibit 568 and Commission Exhibit 570.

Dr. GREGORY - These items represent distorted bits of a missile, a jacket in one case, and part of a jacket and a lead core in the other.

These are missiles having the characteristics which I mentioned earlier, which tend to carry organic debris into wounds and tend to create irregular wounds of entry. One of these, it seems to me, could conceivably have produced the injury which the Governor incurred in his wrist.

Mr. DULLES - In his wrist?

Dr. GREGORY - Yes. Mr. DULLES - And in his thigh?

Dr. GREGORY - I don't know about that, sir. It is possible. But the rather remarkably round nature of the wound in the thigh leads me to believe that it was produced by something like the butt end of an intact missile.

Mr. SPECTER - Assuming the fact that the autopsy surgeon presented for the record a statement that the fragments moved forward into the vicinity of the President's right eye, as the diagram shows, that there were approximately 40 star-like fragments running on a line through the head on the trajectory, and that there was substantial fragmentation of the bullet as it passed through the head, what is your view about that?

Dr. GREGORY - I think it is possible that a fragment from that particular missile may have escaped and struck the Governor's right arm.

[Thomas H. Purvis]

Karl, just remember these two relatively simple phrases:

1. "There is no Magic"!

&

2. "Politicians, not unlike magicians, can make things disappear"!

P.S. Might also want to check into that scar on JBC's left LOWER leg.

And, in event that you wish to believe the "story" that it was from a barbed wire fence as a child, fine.

Just no record of such an event and no one in the family seemed to be aware of such an event either.