Jack, let's try an experiment...

[Todd W. Vaughan]

Todd said this........

Jack,

I said I wrote up the “experience”…my experience. I never said I wrote up the “experiment” .

Good God your reading comprehension is bad!

What was I doing there? You guys posted the fact that you were doing the experiment ahead of time on the DellaRossa Forum including the date and time you were going to be and invited anyone to attend. That day happened to be the last day of a week-long trip I had already planned to be taking so I made it a point to show up. As I recall a few others from the DellaRossa Forum showed up as well, one by the name of Tony Cummings (sp?)

Good God your memory is bad!

Todd

I didn't want to get into this or any other alteration vs non-alteration discussion. My JFK areas of study are in different areas. I also think a lot of both Jack and Fetzer, although don't always agree with them or anyone else for that matter. On the other hand I have nothing against Todd either.... even though I am a CT. However...."right is right" and I feel compelled to make a reply. I just read all these controversial threads and for the most part don't actually comprehened them.

I have been a fence sitter on the alteration controversy....but am becoming more inclined to believe skulldgerry did occur.

However, what I posted above by Todd, is exactly as I also recall. I was also a member of DellaRosa's forum at that time and do recall the discussions regarding that Moorman in the Street Study. It was neither secret nor private and had been fully pre-discussed on the forum. Also there were a few LNs also on that forum and they were also invited to the study at DP that day...as well as the Josiah group. As it turned out, Todd was the only one of either group that did show up.

I do not know what all occurred at DP on that day, only what was later discussed on that forum. I did get the impression that Todd had been treated a bit shabby although Have no idea if Jack had previously met him or not. In fact, on the forum, Jim Fetzer kept making bad remarks as to Todd being there. That just did not hit me right and (then) just as now, I had to speak up for Todd. I don't recall my exact words or even if Todd recalls that I did so.....I mentioned that he had been invited and that after all, he was the only one that actually did show up. although he did thank me. With that...the discussion ended.

But before anyone starts getting all carried away....I don't blieve for a minute that Jack is fibbing. I belive it to be one of a faulty memory, as we all have from time to time!

Dixie

Dixie,

I do recall your post and I appreciated your support then as I do now.

Thanks.

Todd

Edited February 9, 2010 by Todd W. Vaughan

[Todd W. Vaughan]

Just one thing Josiah, when you say vertical dimension do you mean a horizontal line along a vertical or a vertical line along a horizontal?

Todd said years ago that he took a look through their transit and that it was fairly close as as the horizontal (left and right) axis went but was off in terms of the vertical (up and down) axis. I hope Todd might give us his own account.

Josiah Thompson

You might want to get an opinion from Stewart Galanor. He was there and was dubious

about the experiment. He looked thru the transit after Mantik found the line of sight. He

suggested a very minor adjustment. David made the adjustment, and Stewart agreed

about the lineup. Vaughan came over and wanted to look, although none of us knew

who he was. He looked without any comment to any of us. Any comments from him will

be a dozen years late.

Jack.

Your claims about me at the experiment are simply not true.

I had met both you and Dr. Mantik some years previously. I had never met Fetzer. I had met Galanor earlier in the week.

I talked to you, Dr. Mantik and Fetzer, in that order. I did not talk to Galanor who during the experiment was wandering around the south-most lane of Elm Street trying to direct traffic out of that lane.

My conversations with both you and Fetzer were rather brief.

You and I specifically talked about the Moorman blow-up you were using for the pedestal line-up. I specifically asked you why it had a brown, sepia like color tone to it. You more-or-less blew me off.

Fetzer was rather stand-offish and confrontational, for some reason not discussing the experiment but rather demanding to know what I did for a living and where I worked.

Dr. Mantik, however, was as gentlemanly and as cordial as ever and invited me to look through the transit, which I did (I did not “come over and (want) to look” as you falsely claim - I was invited to look). I told him that the alignment was very close horizontally (left and right) but was off vertically because it did not account for the gap.

I wrote up the entire experience and posted it on the DellaRossa board a few days after I returned from Dallas. I believe that I still have that write up and will post it here when I find it.

Todd

How in the world could you WRITE UP THE ENTIRE EXPERIMENT??????? You were not ANY part of participating in it.

You were a bystander. Nobody but 3 of us, plus Stewart Galanor, who asked to come along, even were aware of

what we were doing. WHAT WERE YOU EVEN DOING THERE? WHO TOLD YOU ABOUT IT? It was being done confidentially.

Who tipped you off so that you could be a bystander. Why are you injecting yourself as a PARTICIPANT?

As I recall, I rented the transit at Home Depot on Saturday and met Mantik and Fetzer in the plaza ON SUNDAY MORNING

WHEN THE PLAZA WOULD BE DESERTED. Fetzer and Mantik had talked to Galanor in the hotel and allowed him to come

along. The plaza was almost deserted. Mantik and Fetzer devised the experiment. I took lots of photos. A small crowd

gathered to watch us. You say you ware part of that crowd, but I was not aware of anyone there that I knew. Just

how did you know to come there and were there others with you, and who were they?

I ask again...how did you know we were there, and how could you "write up the experiment" of which you knew nothing?????

now this is getting interesting, Todd?

Regardless of Todd's alleged "write-up" of the experiment by Fetzer and Mantik,

I suggest that anyone wanting to know about the experiment as done by them

go to:

http://www.jfkresearch.com/Moorman/

There is a complete and accurate "write-up".

Jack

Jack,

Below is the write up of my experience while observing the Moorman experiment. This was a post to Dr. Fetzer on the DellaRossa forum that I first wrote up as a Word document before posting and then saved it. The date on the Word Document is 3 December 2001. You’ll see that I quote the conversation that you and I had.

Todd

QUOTE ON

Professor Fetzer,

I came down to Dealey Plaza on 16 November 2001 while the experiment was obviously underway. I stood back a ways and just observed, taking it all in.

Tony Cummings, whom I had first met a few days earlier, came up to me and we chatted a bit. He then moved away, and I continued to view the experiment.

Tony soon came back to me and told me that he had talked to you and that you had asked him who I was. He told me that he replied with "Todd Vaughan.". He further stated that upon hearing that you said "Oh, xxxx.". Thinking that odd, I asked him again, and he repeated what he had just told me.

Shortly after this Jack White approached me and held out his hand. I shook his hand, and the following conversation took place:

WHITE: "Are you Todd?"

VAUGHAN: "Yes. We've met before, back at the 1991 ASK conference I think."

WHITE: "Well I think we can agree to disagree."

VAUGHAN: "Yes, I think so."

We then parted and I continued to watch the experiment.

You had been in the street for quite a while, holding the scale. When you finished and returned to the curb, I approached, shook your hand, and the following conversation took place:

VAUGHAN: I just wanted to introduce myself, Professor, I'm Todd Vaughan.

FETZER: Oh hi. (pause) You know, you never did tell me just what kind of work you do.

VAUGHAN: I work in corporate security for a large company.

FETZER: Oh.

After the experiment appeared to be complete, but before the transit was moved and broke down, I introduced myself to Dr. Mantik. I mentioned that he and I had met before. Cordial as ever, he seemed to recall this and then invited me to look through the transit at the established line of sight. I did so, and immediately and clearly commented that I thought the alignment was close in the horizontal planes but was off in the vertical plane.

I then examined three versions of Moorman that were being used in the alignment attempt.

The first was a large blowup of the pedestal area mounted on stiff cardboard. It was obvious that this was an enlarged computer image that was somewhat pixilated, blurry, and off color, having a sepia like tone.* It was also obvious that there was a crosshair overlaid that in the horizontal plane attempted to line up the bottom of the window with the top of the pedestal. As Josiah Thompson pointed out some months ago and here recently, those points DO NOT line up in Moorman. Rather there is a gap between them. I pointed all these facts out and commented that this version of Moorman did not allow one to see the correct relationship of the window to the pedestal.

Dr. Mantik then produced an 8x10" glossy of Moorman. This was better quality, but as the area in question was not blown-up, it was of little use.

I then looked at, on my own accord, a copy of Grodens' TKOAP that was being used. That version of Moorman was completely useless.

After all of the above, Dr. Mantik kindly asked me if I wanted to move the transit to where I thought the alignment point was. However, as there was no good copy of Moorman available to use for a proper evaluation of the alignment point, I decided that would have been impossible. Further, it was now 11:05 am, and my ride, parked behind the grassy knoll, had waited for me for over an hour and had just called me via cell phone and informed me that we needed to depart to remain on schedule. As I was now 1 hour and 5 minutes over my scheduled departure time, I explained to Dr. Mantik that I had seen enough and had to leave, as my ride was ready to go. I closed by thanking him for his time and allowing me to observe and participate to the degree that I did. I then departed by crossing Elm Street and going up the steps on the knoll into the parking lot where my ride awaited.

Todd

*At one point after I looked through the transit I tried to ask Jack White what the source was for this Moorman enlargement but he seemed not to know and rather somewhat disinterested.

QUOTE OFF

[Robin Unger]

Hi Todd

Is Dixie really Dizie. LOL

Dizie,

I do recall your post and I appreciated your support then as I do now.

Thanks.

Todd

[Todd W. Vaughan]

Hi Todd

Is Dixie really Dizie. LOL

Dizie,

I do recall your post and I appreciated your support then as I do now.

Thanks.

Todd

Thanks Robin. It's a typo (z and x are next to each other on the keyboard) and I've made the correction.

[Jack White]

Just one thing Josiah, when you say vertical dimension do you mean a horizontal line along a vertical or a vertical line along a horizontal?

Todd said years ago that he took a look through their transit and that it was fairly close as as the horizontal (left and right) axis went but was off in terms of the vertical (up and down) axis. I hope Todd might give us his own account.

Josiah Thompson

You might want to get an opinion from Stewart Galanor. He was there and was dubious

about the experiment. He looked thru the transit after Mantik found the line of sight. He

suggested a very minor adjustment. David made the adjustment, and Stewart agreed

about the lineup. Vaughan came over and wanted to look, although none of us knew

who he was. He looked without any comment to any of us. Any comments from him will

be a dozen years late.

Jack.

Your claims about me at the experiment are simply not true.

I had met both you and Dr. Mantik some years previously. I had never met Fetzer. I had met Galanor earlier in the week.

I talked to you, Dr. Mantik and Fetzer, in that order. I did not talk to Galanor who during the experiment was wandering around the south-most lane of Elm Street trying to direct traffic out of that lane.

My conversations with both you and Fetzer were rather brief.

You and I specifically talked about the Moorman blow-up you were using for the pedestal line-up. I specifically asked you why it had a brown, sepia like color tone to it. You more-or-less blew me off.

Fetzer was rather stand-offish and confrontational, for some reason not discussing the experiment but rather demanding to know what I did for a living and where I worked.

Dr. Mantik, however, was as gentlemanly and as cordial as ever and invited me to look through the transit, which I did (I did not “come over and (want) to look” as you falsely claim - I was invited to look). I told him that the alignment was very close horizontally (left and right) but was off vertically because it did not account for the gap.

I wrote up the entire experience and posted it on the DellaRossa board a few days after I returned from Dallas. I believe that I still have that write up and will post it here when I find it.

Todd

How in the world could you WRITE UP THE ENTIRE EXPERIMENT??????? You were not ANY part of participating in it.

You were a bystander. Nobody but 3 of us, plus Stewart Galanor, who asked to come along, even were aware of

what we were doing. WHAT WERE YOU EVEN DOING THERE? WHO TOLD YOU ABOUT IT? It was being done confidentially.

Who tipped you off so that you could be a bystander. Why are you injecting yourself as a PARTICIPANT?

As I recall, I rented the transit at Home Depot on Saturday and met Mantik and Fetzer in the plaza ON SUNDAY MORNING

WHEN THE PLAZA WOULD BE DESERTED. Fetzer and Mantik had talked to Galanor in the hotel and allowed him to come

along. The plaza was almost deserted. Mantik and Fetzer devised the experiment. I took lots of photos. A small crowd

gathered to watch us. You say you ware part of that crowd, but I was not aware of anyone there that I knew. Just

how did you know to come there and were there others with you, and who were they?

I ask again...how did you know we were there, and how could you "write up the experiment" of which you knew nothing?????

now this is getting interesting, Todd?

Regardless of Todd's alleged "write-up" of the experiment by Fetzer and Mantik,

I suggest that anyone wanting to know about the experiment as done by them

go to:

http://www.jfkresearch.com/Moorman/

There is a complete and accurate "write-up".

Jack

Jack,

Below is the write up of my experience while observing the Moorman experiment. This was a post to Dr. Fetzer on the DellaRossa forum that I first wrote up as a Word document before posting and then saved it. The date on the Word Document is 3 December 2001. You’ll see that I quote the conversation that you and I had.

Todd

QUOTE ON

Professor Fetzer,

I came down to Dealey Plaza on 16 November 2001 while the experiment was obviously underway. I stood back a ways and just observed, taking it all in.

Tony Cummings, whom I had first met a few days earlier, came up to me and we chatted a bit. He then moved away, and I continued to view the experiment.

Tony soon came back to me and told me that he had talked to you and that you had asked him who I was. He told me that he replied with "Todd Vaughan.". He further stated that upon hearing that you said "Oh, xxxx.". Thinking that odd, I asked him again, and he repeated what he had just told me.

Shortly after this Jack White approached me and held out his hand. I shook his hand, and the following conversation took place:

WHITE: "Are you Todd?"

VAUGHAN: "Yes. We've met before, back at the 1991 ASK conference I think."

WHITE: "Well I think we can agree to disagree."

VAUGHAN: "Yes, I think so."

We then parted and I continued to watch the experiment.

You had been in the street for quite a while, holding the scale. When you finished and returned to the curb, I approached, shook your hand, and the following conversation took place:

VAUGHAN: I just wanted to introduce myself, Professor, I'm Todd Vaughan.

FETZER: Oh hi. (pause) You know, you never did tell me just what kind of work you do.

VAUGHAN: I work in corporate security for a large company.

FETZER: Oh.

After the experiment appeared to be complete, but before the transit was moved and broke down, I introduced myself to Dr. Mantik. I mentioned that he and I had met before. Cordial as ever, he seemed to recall this and then invited me to look through the transit at the established line of sight. I did so, and immediately and clearly commented that I thought the alignment was close in the horizontal planes but was off in the vertical plane.

I then examined three versions of Moorman that were being used in the alignment attempt.

The first was a large blowup of the pedestal area mounted on stiff cardboard. It was obvious that this was an enlarged computer image that was somewhat pixilated, blurry, and off color, having a sepia like tone.* It was also obvious that there was a crosshair overlaid that in the horizontal plane attempted to line up the bottom of the window with the top of the pedestal. As Josiah Thompson pointed out some months ago and here recently, those points DO NOT line up in Moorman. Rather there is a gap between them. I pointed all these facts out and commented that this version of Moorman did not allow one to see the correct relationship of the window to the pedestal.

Dr. Mantik then produced an 8x10" glossy of Moorman. This was better quality, but as the area in question was not blown-up, it was of little use.

I then looked at, on my own accord, a copy of Grodens' TKOAP that was being used. That version of Moorman was completely useless.

After all of the above, Dr. Mantik kindly asked me if I wanted to move the transit to where I thought the alignment point was. However, as there was no good copy of Moorman available to use for a proper evaluation of the alignment point, I decided that would have been impossible. Further, it was now 11:05 am, and my ride, parked behind the grassy knoll, had waited for me for over an hour and had just called me via cell phone and informed me that we needed to depart to remain on schedule. As I was now 1 hour and 5 minutes over my scheduled departure time, I explained to Dr. Mantik that I had seen enough and had to leave, as my ride was ready to go. I closed by thanking him for his time and allowing me to observe and participate to the degree that I did. I then departed by crossing Elm Street and going up the steps on the knoll into the parking lot where my ride awaited.

Todd

*At one point after I looked through the transit I tried to ask Jack White what the source was for this Moorman enlargement but he seemed not to know and rather somewhat disinterested.

QUOTE OFF

So I said two sentences to a guy I did not know, and you are making a federal case out of it?

And I can tell your account is false when you say:

"Tony soon came back to me and told me that he had talked to you and that you had asked him who I was. He told me that he replied with "Todd Vaughan.". He further stated that upon hearing that you said "Oh, xxxx.". Thinking that odd, I asked him again, and he repeated what he had just told me."

FOR YOUR INFORMATION, I DO NOT USE THAT SORT OF LANGUAGE, ESPECIALLY IN PUBLIC AND

TO A STRANGER. (maybe in private if I hit my thumb with a hammer). I had never met Tony nor

you and would NEVER say "Oh, xxxx" to either of you. One of you LIED about this!

So Todd Vaughan, I bid you adieu. I do not wish to associate with a person like you in any way.

Go elsewhere to peddle your version of the LN lie.

Jack

(who once shook the hand of the famed (in his own mind) Todd Vaughan!)

[Guest Gary Loughran]

And I can tell your account is false when you say:

"Tony soon came back to me and told me that he had talked to you and that you had asked him who I was. He told me that he replied with "Todd Vaughan.". He further stated that upon hearing that you said "Oh, xxxx.". Thinking that odd, I asked him again, and he repeated what he had just told me."

FOR YOUR INFORMATION, I DO NOT USE THAT SORT OF LANGUAGE, ESPECIALLY IN PUBLIC AND

TO A STRANGER. (maybe in private if I hit my thumb with a hammer). I had never met Tony nor

you and would NEVER say "Oh, xxxx" to either of you. One of you LIED about this!

So Todd Vaughan, I bid you adieu. I do not wish to associate with a person like you in any way.

Go elsewhere to peddle your version of the LN lie.

Jack

(who once shook the hand of the famed (in his own mind) Todd Vaughan!)

Jack, Todd's note starts 'Professor Fetzer' - is it possible Todd is quoting Fetzer and not you?

[Jack White]

And I can tell your account is false when you say:

"Tony soon came back to me and told me that he had talked to you and that you had asked him who I was. He told me that he replied with "Todd Vaughan.". He further stated that upon hearing that you said "Oh, xxxx.". Thinking that odd, I asked him again, and he repeated what he had just told me."

FOR YOUR INFORMATION, I DO NOT USE THAT SORT OF LANGUAGE, ESPECIALLY IN PUBLIC AND

TO A STRANGER. (maybe in private if I hit my thumb with a hammer). I had never met Tony nor

you and would NEVER say "Oh, xxxx" to either of you. One of you LIED about this!

So Todd Vaughan, I bid you adieu. I do not wish to associate with a person like you in any way.

Go elsewhere to peddle your version of the LN lie.

Jack

(who once shook the hand of the famed (in his own mind) Todd Vaughan!)

Jack, Todd's note starts 'Professor Fetzer' - is it possible Todd is quoting Fetzer and not you?

It is possible. He does not write well. The communication was directed at me.

[Todd W. Vaughan]

Just one thing Josiah, when you say vertical dimension do you mean a horizontal line along a vertical or a vertical line along a horizontal?

Todd said years ago that he took a look through their transit and that it was fairly close as as the horizontal (left and right) axis went but was off in terms of the vertical (up and down) axis. I hope Todd might give us his own account.

Josiah Thompson

You might want to get an opinion from Stewart Galanor. He was there and was dubious

about the experiment. He looked thru the transit after Mantik found the line of sight. He

suggested a very minor adjustment. David made the adjustment, and Stewart agreed

about the lineup. Vaughan came over and wanted to look, although none of us knew

who he was. He looked without any comment to any of us. Any comments from him will

be a dozen years late.

Jack.

Your claims about me at the experiment are simply not true.

I had met both you and Dr. Mantik some years previously. I had never met Fetzer. I had met Galanor earlier in the week.

I talked to you, Dr. Mantik and Fetzer, in that order. I did not talk to Galanor who during the experiment was wandering around the south-most lane of Elm Street trying to direct traffic out of that lane.

My conversations with both you and Fetzer were rather brief.

You and I specifically talked about the Moorman blow-up you were using for the pedestal line-up. I specifically asked you why it had a brown, sepia like color tone to it. You more-or-less blew me off.

Fetzer was rather stand-offish and confrontational, for some reason not discussing the experiment but rather demanding to know what I did for a living and where I worked.

Dr. Mantik, however, was as gentlemanly and as cordial as ever and invited me to look through the transit, which I did (I did not “come over and (want) to look” as you falsely claim - I was invited to look). I told him that the alignment was very close horizontally (left and right) but was off vertically because it did not account for the gap.

I wrote up the entire experience and posted it on the DellaRossa board a few days after I returned from Dallas. I believe that I still have that write up and will post it here when I find it.

Todd

How in the world could you WRITE UP THE ENTIRE EXPERIMENT??????? You were not ANY part of participating in it.

You were a bystander. Nobody but 3 of us, plus Stewart Galanor, who asked to come along, even were aware of

what we were doing. WHAT WERE YOU EVEN DOING THERE? WHO TOLD YOU ABOUT IT? It was being done confidentially.

Who tipped you off so that you could be a bystander. Why are you injecting yourself as a PARTICIPANT?

As I recall, I rented the transit at Home Depot on Saturday and met Mantik and Fetzer in the plaza ON SUNDAY MORNING

WHEN THE PLAZA WOULD BE DESERTED. Fetzer and Mantik had talked to Galanor in the hotel and allowed him to come

along. The plaza was almost deserted. Mantik and Fetzer devised the experiment. I took lots of photos. A small crowd

gathered to watch us. You say you ware part of that crowd, but I was not aware of anyone there that I knew. Just

how did you know to come there and were there others with you, and who were they?

I ask again...how did you know we were there, and how could you "write up the experiment" of which you knew nothing?????

now this is getting interesting, Todd?

Regardless of Todd's alleged "write-up" of the experiment by Fetzer and Mantik,

I suggest that anyone wanting to know about the experiment as done by them

go to:

http://www.jfkresearch.com/Moorman/

There is a complete and accurate "write-up".

Jack

Jack,

Below is the write up of my experience while observing the Moorman experiment. This was a post to Dr. Fetzer on the DellaRossa forum that I first wrote up as a Word document before posting and then saved it. The date on the Word Document is 3 December 2001. You’ll see that I quote the conversation that you and I had.

Todd

QUOTE ON

Professor Fetzer,

I came down to Dealey Plaza on 16 November 2001 while the experiment was obviously underway. I stood back a ways and just observed, taking it all in.

Tony Cummings, whom I had first met a few days earlier, came up to me and we chatted a bit. He then moved away, and I continued to view the experiment.

Tony soon came back to me and told me that he had talked to you and that you had asked him who I was. He told me that he replied with "Todd Vaughan.". He further stated that upon hearing that you said "Oh, xxxx.". Thinking that odd, I asked him again, and he repeated what he had just told me.

Shortly after this Jack White approached me and held out his hand. I shook his hand, and the following conversation took place:

WHITE: "Are you Todd?"

VAUGHAN: "Yes. We've met before, back at the 1991 ASK conference I think."

WHITE: "Well I think we can agree to disagree."

VAUGHAN: "Yes, I think so."

We then parted and I continued to watch the experiment.

You had been in the street for quite a while, holding the scale. When you finished and returned to the curb, I approached, shook your hand, and the following conversation took place:

VAUGHAN: I just wanted to introduce myself, Professor, I'm Todd Vaughan.

FETZER: Oh hi. (pause) You know, you never did tell me just what kind of work you do.

VAUGHAN: I work in corporate security for a large company.

FETZER: Oh.

After the experiment appeared to be complete, but before the transit was moved and broke down, I introduced myself to Dr. Mantik. I mentioned that he and I had met before. Cordial as ever, he seemed to recall this and then invited me to look through the transit at the established line of sight. I did so, and immediately and clearly commented that I thought the alignment was close in the horizontal planes but was off in the vertical plane.

I then examined three versions of Moorman that were being used in the alignment attempt.

The first was a large blowup of the pedestal area mounted on stiff cardboard. It was obvious that this was an enlarged computer image that was somewhat pixilated, blurry, and off color, having a sepia like tone.* It was also obvious that there was a crosshair overlaid that in the horizontal plane attempted to line up the bottom of the window with the top of the pedestal. As Josiah Thompson pointed out some months ago and here recently, those points DO NOT line up in Moorman. Rather there is a gap between them. I pointed all these facts out and commented that this version of Moorman did not allow one to see the correct relationship of the window to the pedestal.

Dr. Mantik then produced an 8x10" glossy of Moorman. This was better quality, but as the area in question was not blown-up, it was of little use.

I then looked at, on my own accord, a copy of Grodens' TKOAP that was being used. That version of Moorman was completely useless.

After all of the above, Dr. Mantik kindly asked me if I wanted to move the transit to where I thought the alignment point was. However, as there was no good copy of Moorman available to use for a proper evaluation of the alignment point, I decided that would have been impossible. Further, it was now 11:05 am, and my ride, parked behind the grassy knoll, had waited for me for over an hour and had just called me via cell phone and informed me that we needed to depart to remain on schedule. As I was now 1 hour and 5 minutes over my scheduled departure time, I explained to Dr. Mantik that I had seen enough and had to leave, as my ride was ready to go. I closed by thanking him for his time and allowing me to observe and participate to the degree that I did. I then departed by crossing Elm Street and going up the steps on the knoll into the parking lot where my ride awaited.

Todd

*At one point after I looked through the transit I tried to ask Jack White what the source was for this Moorman enlargement but he seemed not to know and rather somewhat disinterested.

QUOTE OFF

So I said two sentences to a guy I did not know, and you are making a federal case out of it?

And I can tell your account is false when you say:

"Tony soon came back to me and told me that he had talked to you and that you had asked him who I was. He told me that he replied with "Todd Vaughan.". He further stated that upon hearing that you said "Oh, xxxx.". Thinking that odd, I asked him again, and he repeated what he had just told me."

FOR YOUR INFORMATION, I DO NOT USE THAT SORT OF LANGUAGE, ESPECIALLY IN PUBLIC AND

TO A STRANGER. (maybe in private if I hit my thumb with a hammer). I had never met Tony nor

you and would NEVER say "Oh, xxxx" to either of you. One of you LIED about this!

So Todd Vaughan, I bid you adieu. I do not wish to associate with a person like you in any way.

Go elsewhere to peddle your version of the LN lie.

Jack

(who once shook the hand of the famed (in his own mind) Todd Vaughan!)

Jack,

As you've demonstrated several times, reading comprehension is not your stong suit.

The quote of ""Oh, xxxx." was something Tony Cummings told me that Fetzer had said, and I wrote it up that way.

Todd

Edited February 9, 2010 by Todd W. Vaughan

[Todd W. Vaughan]

And I can tell your account is false when you say:

"Tony soon came back to me and told me that he had talked to you and that you had asked him who I was. He told me that he replied with "Todd Vaughan.". He further stated that upon hearing that you said "Oh, xxxx.". Thinking that odd, I asked him again, and he repeated what he had just told me."

FOR YOUR INFORMATION, I DO NOT USE THAT SORT OF LANGUAGE, ESPECIALLY IN PUBLIC AND

TO A STRANGER. (maybe in private if I hit my thumb with a hammer). I had never met Tony nor

you and would NEVER say "Oh, xxxx" to either of you. One of you LIED about this!

So Todd Vaughan, I bid you adieu. I do not wish to associate with a person like you in any way.

Go elsewhere to peddle your version of the LN lie.

Jack

(who once shook the hand of the famed (in his own mind) Todd Vaughan!)

Jack, Todd's note starts 'Professor Fetzer' - is it possible Todd is quoting Fetzer and not you?

It is possible. He does not write well. The communication was directed at me.

No, Jack, you simply do not read well.

I clearly stated that "This was a post to Dr. Fetzer..."

It starts out with "Professor Fetzer".

I then addresss Professor Fetzer as "you", since I am writing to him.

When I begin talking to Professor Fetzer about you, Jack White, I cleary write "Shortly after this Jack White approached me..."

Edited February 9, 2010 by Todd W. Vaughan

[Evan Burton]

Jack - a reminder. Please do not accuse a member of lying.

So I said two sentences to a guy I did not know, and you are making a federal case out of it?

And I can tell your account is false when you say:

"Tony soon came back to me and told me that he had talked to you and that you had asked him who I was. He told me that he replied with "Todd Vaughan.". He further stated that upon hearing that you said "Oh, xxxx.". Thinking that odd, I asked him again, and he repeated what he had just told me."

FOR YOUR INFORMATION, I DO NOT USE THAT SORT OF LANGUAGE, ESPECIALLY IN PUBLIC AND

TO A STRANGER. (maybe in private if I hit my thumb with a hammer). I had never met Tony nor

you and would NEVER say "Oh, xxxx" to either of you. One of you LIED about this!

So Todd Vaughan, I bid you adieu. I do not wish to associate with a person like you in any way.

Go elsewhere to peddle your version of the LN lie.

Jack

(who once shook the hand of the famed (in his own mind) Todd Vaughan!)

Edited February 10, 2010 by Evan Burton
Added quote from Jack White

[Todd W. Vaughan]

And I can tell your account is false when you say:

"Tony soon came back to me and told me that he had talked to you and that you had asked him who I was. He told me that he replied with "Todd Vaughan.". He further stated that upon hearing that you said "Oh, xxxx.". Thinking that odd, I asked him again, and he repeated what he had just told me."

FOR YOUR INFORMATION, I DO NOT USE THAT SORT OF LANGUAGE, ESPECIALLY IN PUBLIC AND

TO A STRANGER. (maybe in private if I hit my thumb with a hammer). I had never met Tony nor

you and would NEVER say "Oh, xxxx" to either of you. One of you LIED about this!

So Todd Vaughan, I bid you adieu. I do not wish to associate with a person like you in any way.

Go elsewhere to peddle your version of the LN lie.

Jack

(who once shook the hand of the famed (in his own mind) Todd Vaughan!)

Jack, Todd's note starts 'Professor Fetzer' - is it possible Todd is quoting Fetzer and not you?

It is possible. He does not write well. The communication was directed at me.

No, Jack, you simply do not read well.

I clearly stated that "This was a post to Dr. Fetzer..."

It starts out with "Professor Fetzer".

I then addresss Professor Fetzer as "you", since I am writing to him.

When I begin talking to Professor Fetzer about you, Jack White, I cleary write "Shortly after this Jack White approached me..."

I notice not a peep out of Jack regarding his error in reading my post. Why am I not surprised?

[Jack White]

duplicate deleted

Edited February 12, 2010 by Jack White

[Jack White]

I am not interested in Todd's account of his participation in the Fetzer/Mantik experiment.

I believe it varies with what happened. For a good part of the time I was on the pedestal

across the street taking photos. My pictures show Todd and three other fellows huddled

together in conversation about 20 feet to the south. I apparently was not present when

Todd looked thru the transit. My account differs from his, and any argument about the

differing details offers nothing constructive.

I would like to know the names of Todd's three companions, and why someone in the

group had a suitcase with them.

[Todd W. Vaughan]

I am not interested in Todd's account of his participation in the Fetzer/Mantik experiment.

I believe it varies with what happened. For a good part of the time I was on the pedestal

across the street taking photos. My pictures show Todd and three other fellows huddled

together in conversation about 20 feet to the south. I apparently was not present when

Todd looked thru the transit. My account differs from his, and any argument about the

differing details offers nothing constructive.

I would like to know the names of Todd's three companions, and why someone in the

group had a suitcase with them.

Jack,

Well, you were apparently interested enough to make the false claim earleir in this thread that I “came over and wanted to look”, when in fact I was just watching and was invited to look, and that I “looked without making any comment to any of us.”, when in fact I talked to all three of you.

As for my account differing from yours, my account of my experience was written up only a week or two after the event, and was posted on the DellaRossa Forum– where is your contemporaneous write up of the event?

Yes, I recall at one time you were on the pedestal across the street taking photos. So what? You were standing not more than 10 feet away when I looked through the transit.

As for my “three companions, and why someone in the group had a suitcase with them”, those were not my “companions”- once again you’ve made a typical Jack White assumption. They were other people watching the experiment. One was Tony Cummings, who I had met briefly a few days before. I have no idea why anyone of them had a “suitcase”. What does it matter? Why did your group have a banker box sitting on the grass?

Why don’t you post the photos, Jack? I’d be interested in seeing them.

Todd

[Todd W. Vaughan]

I am not interested in Todd's account of his participation in the Fetzer/Mantik experiment.

I believe it varies with what happened. For a good part of the time I was on the pedestal

across the street taking photos. My pictures show Todd and three other fellows huddled

together in conversation about 20 feet to the south. I apparently was not present when

Todd looked thru the transit. My account differs from his, and any argument about the

differing details offers nothing constructive.

I would like to know the names of Todd's three companions, and why someone in the

group had a suitcase with them.

Jack,

Well, you were apparently interested enough to make the false claim earleir in this thread that I “came over and wanted to look”, when in fact I was just watching and was invited to look, and that I “looked without making any comment to any of us.”, when in fact I talked to all three of you.

As for my account differing from yours, my account of my experience was written up only a week or two after the event, and was posted on the DellaRossa Forum– where is your contemporaneous write up of the event?

Yes, I recall at one time you were on the pedestal across the street taking photos. So what? You were standing not more than 10 feet away when I looked through the transit.

As for my “three companions, and why someone in the group had a suitcase with them”, those were not my “companions”- once again you’ve made a typical Jack White assumption. They were other people watching the experiment. One was Tony Cummings, who I had met briefly a few days before. I have no idea why anyone of them had a “suitcase”. What does it matter? Why did your group have a banker box sitting on the grass?

Why don’t you post the photos, Jack? I’d be interested in seeing them.

Todd

Why don’t you post the photos, Jack? I’d be interested in seeing them.